Speaker 1: I get a team. It's U project. Craig. Anthony Harper
Speaker 1: is my name. Doctor Sam is with us as she
Speaker 1: always does once a month or so from the Thriving
Speaker 1: Metropolis Buddy Cathatha, isn't it it is? Oh my goodness someone.
Speaker 1: You and I were just waxing lyrical as I do
Speaker 1: with most of my guests before we get underway, and
Speaker 1: we're trying to figure out I'm just going to be open,
Speaker 1: open folks. This is when you have a podcast. You're
Speaker 1: always trying to think about what's a conversation that we
Speaker 1: haven't had or that we can have it in a different way,
Speaker 1: or that people want to hear about, Like what's a topic,
Speaker 1: what's an area, what's subject matter? What's a conversation? It's
Speaker 1: hopefully going to be good to listen to and relevant,
Speaker 1: but also might be of value to people as in
Speaker 1: they can operationalize something. They can go, oh, I never
Speaker 1: thought about that. I can try that. I can put
Speaker 1: that into practice and tell me what you said to
Speaker 1: me about, like what really kind of lights you up
Speaker 1: or your main area of I guess interest and work
Speaker 1: around healing and growing and with adults and kids, and
Speaker 1: just say what you said to me, I can't articulate
Speaker 1: it well, like what is it that you love?
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the time us when we
Speaker 2: go into helping professionals, we want to work with children,
Speaker 2: we come at it from our own place off I
Speaker 2: would say, probably wounding right where we go. I want
Speaker 2: to give kids the childhood that I never had, or
Speaker 2: I want to treat children in the way that I
Speaker 2: never got treated, you.
Speaker 3: Know, And so we come at it from that place.
Speaker 2: And I think what's really interesting is without even knowing it,
Speaker 2: we're trying to heal through children, or we're trying to
Speaker 2: heal before we interact with kids. You know, let's get
Speaker 2: our stuff sorted before we you know, approach them or
Speaker 2: have kids or work with kids.
Speaker 3: And so for me, my point of interest is.
Speaker 2: The healing and the growth alongside children, because I think
Speaker 2: that's the most powerfulest way. So that we are on
Speaker 2: this journey with kids alongside, then we're doing the work
Speaker 2: just as my which is we're trying to support them
Speaker 2: to do this work. And I feel like it's the
Speaker 2: most authentic way as well for kids to see us
Speaker 2: as not these perfect.
Speaker 3: Beings but rather also part of the human experience.
Speaker 1: That's interesting like I think about I think about the
Speaker 1: the dude who was the morbiley obese teenager with the
Speaker 1: eating disorder and the body dysmorphia and all the fucking
Speaker 1: emotional and psychological issues and sociological issues who was wildly
Speaker 1: insecure and hated how he looked, and then then open
Speaker 1: the first personal training center in the country. You know me,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about sam in cause you're wondering, you know,
Speaker 1: and like me, still at sixty with you know, not massive,
Speaker 1: but I would you know, still issues like is there
Speaker 1: do I ever get insecured? Do I ever get disappointed
Speaker 1: in how I look? Do I ever feel embarrassed? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Of course, am I Is everything resolved? No? You know,
Speaker 1: So it is interesting working alongside people that you're helping
Speaker 1: to get in shape physically, mentally, emotionally, practically while you're
Speaker 1: kind of still on that journey yourself. And I think
Speaker 1: because even though you know, I went to the university
Speaker 1: and did EXI science and all of those things, and
Speaker 1: I trained a lot of people, and you're coming from
Speaker 1: a place of knowledge and insight and research and academia
Speaker 1: and blah blah qualifications and skills, but you're also coming
Speaker 1: from the place of yeah, I know how you feel,
Speaker 1: because how you feel I used to feel, if not exactly,
Speaker 1: that very close version of that. And also I didn't
Speaker 1: like anyone seeing me with no shirt on. And also
Speaker 1: I got embarrassed often. And also my identity was hey Jumbo,
Speaker 1: like that was my identity, right, that was my name
Speaker 1: at school and blah blah and all that. And so
Speaker 1: I never really thought until you said that about me
Speaker 1: healing alongside the people that I'm working with. But I
Speaker 1: think that's that's kind of good in the sight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean imagine this, right, Craig, If you know,
Speaker 2: you connect back with those experiences, right, And I think
Speaker 2: that there is so much compassion and understanding and curiosity
Speaker 2: that we get from that by knowing what it feels
Speaker 2: like for a child. But imagine if you were a parent,
Speaker 2: or you were working with a bunch of young kids
Speaker 2: and there was a child there overweight and they were
Speaker 2: hating on themselves and they were now as a parent,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: The compassion but could be there, but you could be.
Speaker 2: Like, oh, no, I've created this. I had these problems,
Speaker 2: do you know, So it's going to be triggering things
Speaker 2: with you. So your child or the children that you
Speaker 2: work with anything around these weight issues, his body dysmorphia
Speaker 2: would naturally bring.
Speaker 3: Up stuff for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And.
Speaker 2: You're at this point in the journey where you're like,
Speaker 2: I want to take you there, like I want you
Speaker 2: to be there, but they're not there. And I think
Speaker 2: it's really hard for parents to sit in that space.
Speaker 2: They was anxiety, and they see their child being anxious,
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, of course this, this is my fault.
Speaker 2: Like they get into this I need to fix this
Speaker 2: for them, and they get into this kind of blame
Speaker 2: shames like spiral rather than being able to separate the
Speaker 2: distinct selves and going I'm here, but I'm not them
Speaker 2: and they're not me, and I can't be projecting this stuff.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I need to know where
Speaker 2: my influences and where it's not And how do I
Speaker 2: ground myself in my own experience, my own inner child. Yeah,
Speaker 2: without like I said, bleeding over identifying that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: What as much as you're comfortable to talk about your like,
Speaker 1: what what were you healing as you started working in
Speaker 1: the space and you went to union, you got your doctorate,
Speaker 1: and you built your business, and you started working alongside
Speaker 1: kids and parents, what was the healing that needed to
Speaker 1: happen for you?
Speaker 2: So I think when I approached the industry, I wanted
Speaker 2: to like, again, give you know, kids that you know
Speaker 2: what I didn't have, and do things perfectly.
Speaker 3: And so I started researching all the things.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I got really a cross child development parenting
Speaker 2: stuff and so I was really prepped in my mind
Speaker 2: to be like, I am so ready for motherhood and
Speaker 2: I'm going to raise this child that knows their feelings
Speaker 2: and you know, is going to be able to regulate
Speaker 2: and do all the things. And I'm going to be
Speaker 2: this regulated, you know parent. And then I became a parent,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, this is so unfair that a part
Speaker 2: of me knows that what a baby or a child
Speaker 2: goes through is developmental, and yet I'm making this about me.
Speaker 2: So I'm saying that their good behavior equals me being
Speaker 2: a good parent. So what does it mean for their
Speaker 2: perceived bad behavior? And I was noticing the language by
Speaker 2: the way around people saying, oh, do you have a
Speaker 2: good baby, like are they sleeping through? Are they you know,
Speaker 2: like going all night with needs? And I'm like, hang on,
Speaker 2: so a good baby is not having needs? Essentially, and
Speaker 2: so all that I started to unpack this, I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 2: the more pressure I put on myself to be this
Speaker 2: good parent is more pressure I want to be putting
Speaker 2: on my child to be this good child.
Speaker 3: But I don't align with that. I don't think good
Speaker 3: is to be happy and content all the time.
Speaker 2: But that's essentially what we're saying right when we're trying
Speaker 2: to fix things for kids and keep them okay. So
Speaker 2: it really got me to start unlearning a lot of
Speaker 2: what I was learning and to re learn these things
Speaker 2: of what is it actually to break cycles? And so
Speaker 2: you know, maybe before I thought the breaking of the
Speaker 2: cycles was to be emotionally available twenty four seven and
Speaker 2: you know, have all the right responses, but I'm like, actually, no,
Speaker 2: the breaking of the cycle is to really tap into
Speaker 2: my own inner voice around not being critical of myself,
Speaker 2: not shaming myself, not constantly putting myself down, and then
Speaker 2: creating my child the same amount of space to be
Speaker 2: able to do that and then connect with them right
Speaker 2: being able to give them the same compassion I'm actually
Speaker 2: learning to give myself and to be able to again
Speaker 2: be okay with being in this learning and growing and
Speaker 2: healing alongside them, rather than pretending like I'm just perfect
Speaker 2: and unaffected by life.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to give you a little revelation I had,
Speaker 1: and then I want you to give me a revelation
Speaker 1: that you had about you kind of saw things. Ah,
Speaker 1: this is how it works, and one day you went, oh, no,
Speaker 1: it isn't. It doesn't work like that, right, So my
Speaker 1: revelation was So I started in the gym industry in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two. I started as a gym instructor. Obviously
Speaker 1: I knew fuck all the qualifications back then were almost
Speaker 1: non existent. I worked with a guy who was actually
Speaker 1: an exercise scientist. I think he probably had a phyz
Speaker 1: ed degree back then, and he was a pro bodybuilder.
Speaker 1: He was in very good shape and he fortunately for me,
Speaker 1: I didn't even know alive anymore. His name was Clem Ziegler,
Speaker 1: and this was in Tasmania, and my job was basically
Speaker 1: just to follow him around for six months and learned
Speaker 1: from him and do stuff, you know, put away the
Speaker 1: way to help the odd person out here and there.
Speaker 1: But really it was almost like a trainee ship. And
Speaker 1: so I started there and then I worked in gyms
Speaker 1: and I kept learning and I kept training, man, I
Speaker 1: kept reading what I could read, but like the research
Speaker 1: and the access to great information in nineteen eighty two
Speaker 1: compared to what we've got now was minimal and also
Speaker 1: no internet and blah blah blah. And so I remember thinking, right,
Speaker 1: for me to be good, I didn't even think in
Speaker 1: personal trainer terms because they didn't really exist in Australia.
Speaker 1: Then for me to be a good fitness professional, I've
Speaker 1: got to understand, you know, biomechanics and progressive overload and
Speaker 1: how to do movements well and what muscles do what
Speaker 1: and what muscles are involved in what movements, and how
Speaker 1: to write a program and how to write the right
Speaker 1: program for the right person based on their knees and
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. So it's all about physiology. It's
Speaker 1: all about the physical. It's all about muscles and skeleton
Speaker 1: and angles and weight and sets and reps and volume
Speaker 1: and recovery. And then one day I had this revelation.
Speaker 1: I went, oh, it is about that, but it's mainly
Speaker 1: about the mind because people keep giving up, people keep stopping.
Speaker 1: All these people who joined at New Year came for
Speaker 1: three weeks like world class athletes, and then most of
Speaker 1: them didn't come back, or a few of them came back.
Speaker 1: And I had this revelation of the importance not the
Speaker 1: unimportance of the body, of course, but it was almost
Speaker 1: like the results that we would get with our body
Speaker 1: would dependent on our ability to manage our mind when
Speaker 1: we lacked motivation, or when we lacked discipline, or when
Speaker 1: we didn't feel like doing it or like And I
Speaker 1: started to thinking about, Ah, how do I help people
Speaker 1: to keep doing the work when they don't want to
Speaker 1: do the work? How do I help people too because
Speaker 1: everyone gets well, not everyone, but a lot of people
Speaker 1: start and then one day they don't want to do it,
Speaker 1: which is why gyms can sell vast numbers of memberships
Speaker 1: knowing that the majority of the people have a current
Speaker 1: membership won't go because the average active gym membership is
Speaker 1: pretty like fifteen per cent or something in Australia. That
Speaker 1: for me was my revelation in the hell fitness wellness
Speaker 1: space is knowing what to do isn't enough. Having a
Speaker 1: gym membership isn't enough.
Speaker 2: When you think about, say, the programs for PTS, it
Speaker 2: could be so focused on how many reps. Right in
Speaker 2: the progressive overload and all these different things. But that's
Speaker 2: actually inaccessible if we can't get through that first gate,
Speaker 2: like you said, is how do you just keep showing
Speaker 2: up for yourself? How do you adapt this? How do
Speaker 2: you get through? Like you said, your mind? So what
Speaker 2: we think is the problem, which is perfectly designed, well
Speaker 2: balanced exercise plan, isn't actually the problem.
Speaker 3: It's going back.
Speaker 1: It's I mean, it's definitely one of the ingredients. Hey,
Speaker 1: if you've got good gym equipment, if you got but
Speaker 1: you know, like I've spoken in prisons many times, many times,
Speaker 1: and I go in and these dudes are in an
Speaker 1: environment where there's fuck all, Like there's not much equipment
Speaker 1: because they're not allowed. They can't have dumb bells because
Speaker 1: they'll fucking kill each other, or bar bells because they'll
Speaker 1: hit each other over there. So they have it depends
Speaker 1: where actually, but some prisons that most ones have been
Speaker 1: in a high security and yeah there's not much, but
Speaker 1: these guys figure out how to train productively and effectively
Speaker 1: and get a lot out of what they've got to
Speaker 1: work with.
Speaker 2: Right, It's the adaptability and the flexibility. And I think
Speaker 2: that's like if you look at the health and the
Speaker 2: fitness things. A lot of people struggle to do that.
Speaker 2: They're like, I've got this perfect plan and it's one
Speaker 2: hour and it has to be the gym, and then
Speaker 2: life doesn't go that way, and they're like, how do
Speaker 2: I adapt this to dumb bells only? How do I
Speaker 2: adapt it to half the session and still show up?
Speaker 2: I think it's the ability to keep showing up for yourself, right.
Speaker 1: I think so? I think so. And also, you know,
Speaker 1: to realize that wants it or not like it or
Speaker 1: not like you doing your job. Other parents are going
Speaker 1: to look at you and how you parent, so like
Speaker 1: it or not. They really want to know how. Oh
Speaker 1: the bloody queen of the world, doctor Sam, let's see
Speaker 1: her being a mum. Let's see what she does. She's
Speaker 1: all telling us what to do and what not to do,
Speaker 1: or what the research says and what the data tells it.
Speaker 1: Whatever you know, and the same for me. I know
Speaker 1: if I turn up to do a gig, a speaking gig,
Speaker 1: and part of what I'm there for is health, wellness, performance,
Speaker 1: high performance, physical, mental, emotional. If I turn up, same guys,
Speaker 1: same knowledge, same energy, same vibe, same communication skills, but
Speaker 1: I look unfit and unhealthy, I lose instant credibility. So
Speaker 1: there's a level of expectation and pressure that will Craig.
Speaker 1: You need to kind of be a walking, talking version
Speaker 1: of what it is your selling or what it is
Speaker 1: you're sharing or educating people on. And it shouldn't be
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be that way. But also imagine if you
Speaker 2: always was just in that shape. So you're in a
Speaker 2: good shape and you've always been in that shape, and
Speaker 2: people expect that to be the standard. What about let's
Speaker 2: just say you weren't okay, and then past journeys, you're
Speaker 2: going from not being in that shape to being in
Speaker 2: that shape. Doesn't that give more credibility because you know
Speaker 2: what it's like to be on the literally opposite end
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 1: Well, only if people have that context. If they're just
Speaker 1: a bum on a seat and you're a dude on
Speaker 1: a stage, they have no idea of who you are.
Speaker 1: And you walk out and you're sixty two like me,
Speaker 1: and you're in a pair of jeans and a black
Speaker 1: T shirt and you're in quite good shape. You know,
Speaker 1: no ego intended there, but I mean not bad shape.
Speaker 1: You walk out and people go, oh, it kind of
Speaker 1: seems to walk his talk and it's well and good
Speaker 1: to go. Well, it doesn't matter if you've got the knowledge,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter what you look like. Yeh, only in theory.
Speaker 1: In the real world, if there's a room full of
Speaker 1: people and you don't look like you're doing what you're
Speaker 1: asking them to do or suggesting they do, they don't
Speaker 1: trust you, they don't respect you.
Speaker 3: So do you think it's but then do you reckon?
Speaker 2: They're the layers, right, So the layer is for example,
Speaker 2: let's just say they're saying, oh, yep, Sam suggests people
Speaker 2: to go to the gym for their mental health a
Speaker 2: CA and I choose not to good to the gym
Speaker 2: one day because I want to rest. They might be like, Okay,
Speaker 2: she's being inconsistent with what she's saying. She's telling everyone
Speaker 2: to go to the gym, and here she is just
Speaker 2: resting at home. Well, if we just go underneath that,
Speaker 2: the bottom bit is actually for me to go. I
Speaker 2: need to start listening to myself. And some of that
Speaker 2: is that compassion and going, you know what, I need
Speaker 2: to rest, I've got a headache. And the other part
Speaker 2: is that accountability and going you know what future me
Speaker 2: needs that, so what looks like me being inconsistent is
Speaker 2: actually still working within my philosophy of life is I
Speaker 2: don't want to abandon myself in both ways.
Speaker 3: I don't want to shrink and I don't want to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, I agree. Yeah, I think it's though you're
Speaker 1: talking about the micro compared to the macro. The micro
Speaker 1: is I'm going to have a couple of days off
Speaker 1: here and there because I'm fucked. I'm like, yeah, totally,
Speaker 1: and you should me too. But it's like, well, most
Speaker 1: of the time, do you do most of what you say?
Speaker 1: And the answer is yes, well, well good. And do
Speaker 1: you need to be a maniac?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Do you need to be you know, like an addict
Speaker 1: to the gym or no, in fact, please don't be that.
Speaker 1: And if you wake up and you're genuinely exhausted and
Speaker 1: you're meant to train and your body is telling you no,
Speaker 1: then don't go like, we still need to be smart.
Speaker 1: But I think that when you I guess it's I
Speaker 1: put up a post the other day and later on
Speaker 1: I thought maybe it was a bit mean. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it was, but it said something like basically like,
Speaker 1: don't trust a life coach whose life is shit, you know,
Speaker 1: And I remember talking it doesn't matter but to a
Speaker 1: person and they'd just done this life coaching course and
Speaker 1: I knew them, and I'm like, and not judging, I
Speaker 1: just knew the state that their life was in. It
Speaker 1: was fucking chaos and there were so many things. I'm like, ah,
Speaker 1: well done for doing the course. But I would not
Speaker 1: send anyone to you because I know you're not doing
Speaker 1: these things. So maybe you've got a bit of paper
Speaker 1: and maybe you've got some knowledge, but unless I see
Speaker 1: you walking the talk or living that knowledge and producing results,
Speaker 1: I would not send people to you, even though you
Speaker 1: have a qualification. Like I think the heart though when.
Speaker 2: You think about like when you said about seeing results right,
Speaker 2: because what if someone you do have people say four times,
Speaker 2: full down, nine times, get up, ten times kind of thing.
Speaker 2: What if it's mid transformation, what if it's in the
Speaker 2: messy bit Like because I agree with what you're saying,
Speaker 2: I feel like it happens so much. So it's like,
Speaker 2: for example, the relationship coach that needs a perfect relationship.
Speaker 2: She has a really good relationship and she feels amazing
Speaker 2: about it and she's coaching people, and then her relationship
Speaker 2: breaks down, her partner cheats on her and he goes away.
Speaker 2: Then she feels like crap about it. She doesn't want
Speaker 2: to do your work anymore. She just wants to forget
Speaker 2: all of her experiences, all of her stuff. She feels
Speaker 2: like an impostor how do we help people compartmentalize that?
Speaker 3: Right off? It's not that your philosophy has changed.
Speaker 2: You've just you've faced the situation that you didn't anticipate
Speaker 2: and you're still in the thick of it and navigate.
Speaker 1: Yet. Yeah, No, that makes total sense. And I respect that.
Speaker 1: I guess because you know, when dawned on me that
Speaker 1: while I'm saying this to you and the audience, I
Speaker 1: know this person and I have them in my head
Speaker 1: right now, and if I could describe what their life
Speaker 1: is or was actually was at this stage, you would
Speaker 1: all go, oh, I get it right. So I'm not
Speaker 1: being nasty. But to their credit, they have really done
Speaker 1: in one eighty this was probably I was a long
Speaker 1: time ago. It's probably a decade ago. I haven't seen
Speaker 1: them much, but they've really got their shit together, and
Speaker 1: you know, which is great. But yeah, and I but
Speaker 1: I think that that I actually think when you talk
Speaker 1: to people about one of the normal human challenges around
Speaker 1: whatever it is, whether it's parenting, whether it's getting in shape,
Speaker 1: or whether it's relationship coaching, or you know whatever, And
Speaker 1: you mention, by the way, I still struggle with this,
Speaker 1: you know, but this is this has been for me.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like I have a pretty good understanding
Speaker 1: of how the body works. Yep, not a total, but
Speaker 1: a pretty good understanding of the body from a nutritional
Speaker 1: and a clinical and an exercise physiological, biological, psychological, neurological, cognitive.
Speaker 1: I have a pretty good probably better than the average
Speaker 1: person on the street, maybe because I've done a bit
Speaker 1: of study. But at the same time, I can talk
Speaker 1: about things that seem to work and be effective while
Speaker 1: saying I struggle with this bit though I'm with you.
Speaker 1: You definitely don't need.
Speaker 3: To have Maybe it's the way that you deliver it.
Speaker 2: As in, like you said, with this guy, right, let's
Speaker 2: just say he's let's just say he's a I don't know.
Speaker 2: We've got someone that's a parent coach and they're like coaching,
Speaker 2: do not give your kids screens at all? And then
Speaker 2: they're going and their kids are on screens. You know,
Speaker 2: most hours of the day. Right, that example of maybe
Speaker 2: the guy that you're saying, which is his life super chaotic,
Speaker 2: he's preaching this other thing. It's very different from peerage
Speaker 2: coach and going hey, so these are the pros to screens,
Speaker 2: here are the cons. I'm still working out for my
Speaker 2: family where that like kind of line is or where.
Speaker 3: That balance is, these are things to consider. You make
Speaker 3: that choice.
Speaker 2: Can I feel like that's the difference, right, and kind
Speaker 2: of coming at it from a place of expertise and
Speaker 2: going hey, these are this is what I've learned, but
Speaker 2: ultimately right, you've got to figure out where that is
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 3: I'm still going with that, and I'm still tweaking and learning.
Speaker 2: Versus the other person who's like, no screens at all,
Speaker 2: it's so bad, and then purposely doing the opposite, is
Speaker 2: that you reckon the difference.
Speaker 1: I think so. I think that's you know, it's also
Speaker 1: and again, this is me. This is not me speaking
Speaker 1: as a professional. This is me speaking as a human me.
Speaker 1: It's just a fucking regular bloke. But for me to
Speaker 1: listen to somebody, I need to respect them and trust them.
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily need to love them. I like them,
Speaker 1: but if I'm like, ah, like I had this doctor
Speaker 1: specialist who is helping me with some stuff, just you
Speaker 1: know what was it? Was it my ears, I think
Speaker 1: was my ears and not my current guy, my past guy.
Speaker 1: And I didn't love him. It's like he had the
Speaker 1: worst bedside manner. He just but that dude was fucking
Speaker 1: smart and like he just I'm like, oh, well, I
Speaker 1: don't need to like you or think you're a great human,
Speaker 1: but for what I need, which is I need someone
Speaker 1: who really understands this and can answer my questions well,
Speaker 1: and like you're my guy, So thank you. You're great.
Speaker 2: You're right, And I think in your industry, the visuals
Speaker 2: are probably the fact. Like with an ear thing, right,
Speaker 2: it's very like you're waiting for them to talk about it,
Speaker 2: but with your thing, it's very visual and like, kind
Speaker 2: of coming back to what you said, I feel like
Speaker 2: I've gone to like when I've had pets in the
Speaker 2: past and I've kind of, you know, joined in your
Speaker 2: gym and they kind of give you that intro session
Speaker 2: and sometimes the female that's doing it has a different
Speaker 2: body shape to what I'm looking for, or they're training
Speaker 2: different areas that I'm not particularly interested in. Training and so,
Speaker 2: and then they start talking, right, and they're like, yep,
Speaker 2: this is a split that you know, I think is
Speaker 2: going to be good.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I see that you're very good at
Speaker 3: what you.
Speaker 2: Do, but it's not the look I'm going for, or
Speaker 2: it's not part of my goals, And so I get
Speaker 2: what you mean. Around you kind of you do have
Speaker 2: this sense of respect and trust for someone when what
Speaker 2: they're saying kind of matches up to what you're seeing
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 3: And it's a life what you want one.
Speaker 1: Hundred percent also, which may or may not have been
Speaker 1: what you're alluding to. Some this is very specific to
Speaker 1: my industry or my my industry most of my life.
Speaker 1: Some trainers basically train different people the same way, yes,
Speaker 1: which annoys me. Right, It's like, nah, bro, this is
Speaker 1: this is why it's called personalized exercise prescription. It's like
Speaker 1: everybody comes to you. You're a doctor. They've all got
Speaker 1: different ailments. You all give them fifty milligrams of the
Speaker 1: same drug.
Speaker 3: Yep, so GENERIOI them, you give.
Speaker 1: Them all account Yeah, it's like, oh, well let's take
Speaker 1: this this is pain killer. Well yeah, but you gave
Speaker 1: that to her. She weighs fifty kilos way one hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty kilos. I've got neck pain, and she's got
Speaker 1: a sore big toe because she's got an infection or
Speaker 1: whatever it is. You know, So in this particular example,
Speaker 1: I think people being able to go. Sam, tell me
Speaker 1: about you. Tell me about your training background, Tell me
Speaker 1: what you want to do, Tell me about any injuries
Speaker 1: you have, Tell me about any medication you're on. Tell
Speaker 1: me a bit about your sleep, a little bit about
Speaker 1: your food, a little bit about your lifestyle. Tell me
Speaker 1: about the kind of stuff you like to do and
Speaker 1: hate to do. And when you say you want to
Speaker 1: be strong, do you mean absolute strength, do you mean
Speaker 1: power speed? Do you mean muscular endurance? Do you want
Speaker 1: to do you want to build muscles so change the
Speaker 1: way you look a little bit? Or do you just
Speaker 1: want strength or you know? And also tell me what
Speaker 1: cardio do you do? You know roughly how many steps
Speaker 1: you walk a day? Do you want to change your
Speaker 1: body composition or kind of keep of how it is?
Speaker 1: You know? There are so many questions that I can
Speaker 1: ask you that give me so much information, and then
Speaker 1: I can design an individually based program for you. And
Speaker 1: it would be a program that I would never do
Speaker 1: or want to do. But it isn't about what I
Speaker 1: prefer or what I like. It's about your body's needs.
Speaker 1: That's prescription and.
Speaker 2: That see that in itself right is where your value
Speaker 2: is as a coach. It's not necessarily then how you
Speaker 2: look it's going. I may look like this this is
Speaker 2: for my goals where I'm at, but hey, I'm here
Speaker 2: to help you discover you. So I'm on my journey
Speaker 2: doing me, but this is actually about you. And I
Speaker 2: think that's another important distinction as well, because yes, we
Speaker 2: don't want leaders to say, hey, I'm doing this and
Speaker 2: it works for me, and all you guys should be
Speaker 2: doing the same. It's like, no, I'm in this process.
Speaker 2: I'm saying my conditioning about me what I want in
Speaker 2: my life. But I'm here to help guide you to
Speaker 2: get what you want out of life, not what I.
Speaker 3: Want to out of life or not what I think
Speaker 3: is the measure of success. But what you define is that?
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, one of my the last gym that
Speaker 1: I had was quite very big. It was the biggest
Speaker 1: personal training center in Australia, so like a really large space,
Speaker 1: a thousand square meters ten thousand square feet and heaps
Speaker 1: of equipment. There was an indoor running track, like he
Speaker 1: could run a one hundred meters lap inside the building, right.
Speaker 1: There was just like lots and lots of stuff, and
Speaker 1: so you could train people really well because you could
Speaker 1: always get equipment. There was you know, you never had
Speaker 1: to wait for anything. And I remember one day I
Speaker 1: came into work and one of my newish trainers who
Speaker 1: didn't last very long, he'd written a program up on
Speaker 1: the whiteboard in the morning. It was like quarter past six,
Speaker 1: and he was training a person and he'd written the
Speaker 1: program and they were working off the whiteboard, and then
Speaker 1: at seven o'clock he rubbed out that person's name and
Speaker 1: wrote another name on top of the exact same program.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, we're going to have a chat. But
Speaker 1: it wasn't appropriate that I chat to him then. And
Speaker 1: then at eight o'clock, you know what happened. So he
Speaker 1: had three clients in a row, and then I said,
Speaker 1: come have a chat, and I went, okay, so tell
Speaker 1: me about your last three clients. And he's like, what
Speaker 1: do you want to know. I'm like, well, do they
Speaker 1: all have the same goals? He's like no, I go
Speaker 1: do they all have the same body and genetics. No,
Speaker 1: are they all the same fitness and strength? Do they
Speaker 1: have the same and do you figured it out right? Dude?
Speaker 1: That is not personal training. That is not high level
Speaker 1: exercise science or delivery. That is the laziest shit I've
Speaker 1: ever seen. And he didn't love that there.
Speaker 2: And I feel like what you were saying about walking
Speaker 2: the talk right, if he was really committed to his
Speaker 2: training and he's doing this for him, he's got a coach,
Speaker 2: or he's doing it for himself, right, Well, he's got
Speaker 2: goals and he's tweaking it and.
Speaker 3: Optimizing it for him.
Speaker 2: I feel like that's then the follow through with your
Speaker 2: clients and going I'm doing this with my training and
Speaker 2: I'm super excited about it, and this is why I'm
Speaker 2: working towards This is your plan, and this is why
Speaker 2: I tak you towards your goals, and this is what
Speaker 2: we're going to keep tweaking. That's how I see the
Speaker 2: living what we preach. Right, It's in that way of going,
Speaker 2: I'm doing this for myself and I'm getting the benefits,
Speaker 2: but I'm on this journey too, but I'm here to
Speaker 2: help you do this yourself.
Speaker 1: Obviously, the way that you work with kids, even if
Speaker 1: you're trying to create the same outcome, whatever that is.
Speaker 1: You know, a more functional kid, a less anxious kid,
Speaker 1: are happy at whatever. Right. I don't know, but I imagine
Speaker 1: that the way that you approach that same goal with
Speaker 1: different children is different. I'm sure it's similar in some ways.
Speaker 1: But knowing that this kid's on the spectrum and that
Speaker 1: kid's not on the spectrum and this, you know whatever,
Speaker 1: then I think what about with parents? Because parents are
Speaker 1: all different. Some parents are high maintenance, some are not.
Speaker 1: Let's be blunt and honest, and they'd say it, I'll
Speaker 1: say it. Some people are hard work, some people are
Speaker 1: you know, a bit tricky sometimes but pretty good. And
Speaker 1: then some people are like a ray of sunshine in
Speaker 1: your day. Do you when you are talking to them
Speaker 1: or you're explaining what's going on, or how careful do
Speaker 1: you have to be about how you navigate that conversation,
Speaker 1: because I feel like some people will bring their kid
Speaker 1: to you and then tell you what to do.
Speaker 3: And this is a really tricky bit.
Speaker 2: And I know I'm not the only child therapist that
Speaker 2: has experienced this, because I've supervised quite a few, and
Speaker 2: they say the same thing where the child is technically
Speaker 2: the client, and so we're trying to advocate for the
Speaker 2: child right and we're trying to explain things from the child's.
Speaker 3: Perspective and point of view.
Speaker 2: But the parents are super defensive, naturally, because how they
Speaker 2: perceive it is you're this expert and you're telling me
Speaker 2: that I'm doing this wrong and I should be doing
Speaker 2: this and there's a right way, and I'm on the
Speaker 2: opposite end of that, and so they've already kind of
Speaker 2: got their defenses up if they feel like this is
Speaker 2: all my child, Like this is not me, this is them,
Speaker 2: and we just need to fix that problem and everything
Speaker 2: will be okay. And so I feel like it's so
Speaker 2: much easier to work with a parent with them arrived
Speaker 2: at this place where they're like, I know my child
Speaker 2: needs support.
Speaker 3: But I also need support.
Speaker 2: It's triggering a lot in me, and like, I'm going
Speaker 2: to be honest with you here, I would love to
Speaker 2: respond in this way, but I'm responding in this other way.
Speaker 2: I would like to, you know, live my life, but
Speaker 2: here I am just stopping everything because I'm just in
Speaker 2: survival mode. And when you have parents like that, you're
Speaker 2: like awesome. So this is what you're taking on, which
Speaker 2: is not your responsibility. You know, your child's a separate
Speaker 2: sense of self, and this is what will work on
Speaker 2: in therapy.
Speaker 3: But here is your.
Speaker 2: Points of influences. Here are potentially the needle movers. Give
Speaker 2: them a ranger things. What do you think is going
Speaker 2: to make the most difference here.
Speaker 1: And then there.
Speaker 2: I feel like they're already at this place of like, Okay, yep,
Speaker 2: I'm ready to work on these things. And it's not
Speaker 2: the things that they think, you know, Like I said,
Speaker 2: I say this a lot. A lot of parents come
Speaker 2: to me and they're like, I just need more patience.
Speaker 2: And what we end up finding is that no, they
Speaker 2: just need to eat in the afternoon because they're expecting
Speaker 2: to be calm and do dinner for their child and
Speaker 2: they're running on empty. Like let's get a protein shake
Speaker 2: in you so your blood sugar is regulated, or let's
Speaker 2: get you extra childcare or support. Because it's not that
Speaker 2: you need more patients or more skills or more you.
Speaker 3: Know, breathing techniques.
Speaker 2: You actually need space, just put down the responsibility and
Speaker 2: come back to yourself. So it's the things that they
Speaker 2: don't expect, right, So I kind of have to work
Speaker 2: with them though on what is the need of mover
Speaker 2: for them? What is actually the issue, because it's not
Speaker 2: often what they think it is. It's we keep going
Speaker 2: through the layers and going back to the childhood conditioning
Speaker 2: and going back to their expectations, you know, off their child,
Speaker 2: off their own parenting and meeting themselves where they're at
Speaker 2: and meeting their child where they're at. And I think, ultimately, honestly,
Speaker 2: what it comes down to is repairing the connection with themselves,
Speaker 2: repairing and the child being able to connect with themselves
Speaker 2: and then coming back together and connecting in the parents
Speaker 2: our relationship. And we can't do that with a parent
Speaker 2: who is shaming themselves and putting themselves down, and its defensive.
Speaker 3: We really need to get them to start yet preparing
Speaker 3: that connection with themselves.
Speaker 1: Do you ever have a situation where parent, mum or
Speaker 1: dad or maybe both come in and you're like, the
Speaker 1: kid doesn't have a problem. You do, the kid's actually
Speaker 1: all right? I think, like you make the kid anxious,
Speaker 1: I don't think or that must be tricky when you
Speaker 1: see that mum and dad are in some way small
Speaker 1: to big contributing to the problem.
Speaker 2: We all are as parents, if we're really honest with ourselves,
Speaker 2: because if we see it as it's our perception of
Speaker 2: the problem, and if we can, I think it's way
Speaker 2: more effective to work with parents on their perception of
Speaker 2: the problem and they find that everything else flows so
Speaker 2: easily from them, and they will start to be able
Speaker 2: to support their child in ways that they couldn't have even
Speaker 2: imagined when they just shift their perspection. Because this is
Speaker 2: a long term game, Like you're not going to just
Speaker 2: send a kid to therapy for ten sessions and then
Speaker 2: you're never having to deal with mental health or wellbeing.
Speaker 3: Again, this is like a daily practice here. We all
Speaker 3: have mental health.
Speaker 2: And so for me, yeah, it's if we can take
Speaker 2: that in a non shamey blame way and going it
Speaker 2: is actually us, but it's us in the ways of
Speaker 2: it's not all about us. You know, we are influencing
Speaker 2: some bits but other bits. Is actually a natural part
Speaker 2: of life. And how do we just use the environment
Speaker 2: to support the child, right, and how do we actually
Speaker 2: also start to support ourselves to live a full life
Speaker 2: so that we again descend to the problem. We often
Speaker 2: blow up the problem.
Speaker 3: Yep. So child's experience is one issue and we're like,
Speaker 3: this is it. It's everything.
Speaker 2: We don't know how to put it back to where
Speaker 2: it belongs. Yep, this is a struggle. But let's grow
Speaker 2: all this other good stuff, Like, let's focus on all
Speaker 2: these other things, because we are actually functioning generally well
Speaker 2: if we looked at it in the bigger picture scheme
Speaker 2: of life and build the connection around that too, and
Speaker 2: systems support us.
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's an absolute answer to this,
Speaker 1: but as best you could guess, what are the top
Speaker 1: three reasons that people bring their parents? People bring people
Speaker 1: bring their kid. Imagine bringing your parents. I might come
Speaker 1: and see you. I'll bring Ron and Mary bring their
Speaker 1: kids in. What are the top three reasons? It can
Speaker 1: be broad, it can be specific.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll go with the top three, and I think
Speaker 2: what you're asking for, but then I'll just summon up
Speaker 2: to one. So I think if you look at just
Speaker 2: in a general seface level thing, we've got.
Speaker 3: Anxiety, we've got anger, and we've got I would say.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say depression, probably like school issues, right, like
Speaker 2: not wanting to go to school, friendship issues, those things.
Speaker 2: So they're the three surface level things. If you look
Speaker 2: at what it says on the referral. But if I
Speaker 2: sum it up to one core reason, it is breaking
Speaker 2: generational cycles. So many parents approaching therapy and going I
Speaker 2: know that I didn't really have the best emotional support
Speaker 2: growing up, and I don't.
Speaker 3: Want that for my child. I want to normalize.
Speaker 2: Them being able to talk to someone about their problems,
Speaker 2: about their feelings, getting support, and so that is, honestly
Speaker 2: the core of it, I think is them trying to
Speaker 2: break these cycles.
Speaker 1: Wow, is such I'm actually I think I'm going to
Speaker 1: call the episode that that is. And so do parents
Speaker 1: often hand down? Like do you see evidence that parents
Speaker 1: are handing their issues down to their kids?
Speaker 2: We all are when you think about it, And I'm
Speaker 2: not saying handling issue. It's not so much issues down
Speaker 2: to the kids, it's we all have childhood conditioning. So
Speaker 2: for the first what seven years, it's almost like our
Speaker 2: default operating system gets programmed into our brain. How we
Speaker 2: see the world, how we respond to things, how what
Speaker 2: is love right? You know, all these rules about the
Speaker 2: world and whether it's parents or the society or other.
Speaker 3: People in their lives.
Speaker 2: But the first seven years, and that is an operating
Speaker 2: system that we take onto all other relationships and going
Speaker 2: out in the world. The issue is we don't kind
Speaker 2: of go back to that unless there's some kind of
Speaker 2: major trauma that we experience will neglect to whatever else.
Speaker 2: We don't actually go back to that and going what
Speaker 2: lessons did I learn about these things and how to
Speaker 2: again respond to my own anxiety or my feelings and
Speaker 2: how is that impacting my life now? And what you're
Speaker 2: going to find is a lot of parents have scarcity,
Speaker 2: you know, of the world. They have this fear they
Speaker 2: have this is the where good parents are, and this
Speaker 2: is what a good child is, bad parent is, and
Speaker 2: all of that kind of stuff. And if we don't
Speaker 2: go back to that, we're not going to know what
Speaker 2: unconscious scripts are running our lives because essentially it's like
Speaker 2: ninety five percent unconscious, right, five percent conscious?
Speaker 1: So oh good, yeah, surely good terms. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I don't think it's like, let's sort out of issues,
Speaker 2: so we don't, you know, projecting some one to our kids.
Speaker 2: It's like the issue is pretending that we don't. It's
Speaker 2: owning that we do, and that we come with our
Speaker 2: own set of beliefs about the world and our stories
Speaker 2: about the world and ourselves.
Speaker 3: And our kids.
Speaker 2: It's owning that so that we can continue to work
Speaker 2: on them while we're continuing to parents. I think that is,
Speaker 2: to be honest, The key to it's it's those who
Speaker 2: have had parents growing up and they're like, I know
Speaker 2: something is wrong and they're going through things, but they're
Speaker 2: pretending they're perfect and they've had no influence on us,
Speaker 2: or they're like, yes, it's all my fault.
Speaker 3: You know one experience, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you ever have parents to come in, mums and
Speaker 1: dads and they disagree on what's going on, like and
Speaker 1: you need to sort that out first of course.
Speaker 2: And you know why though, because we want someone to blame,
Speaker 2: and it's easy because we can see things better from
Speaker 2: an outside perspective. So the mom will be like, I
Speaker 2: know what his issue is. He handles it in this
Speaker 2: way and this is what's contributing to this. And then
Speaker 2: the dad will be like, I only do this because
Speaker 2: you're handling it and this way other extreme, and I
Speaker 2: need to balance it out. So it's not who's right
Speaker 2: or wrong again, it's them going back to how are
Speaker 2: they responding the parents child relationship in its context, and
Speaker 2: how do we work on that rather than conflict between
Speaker 2: who is right and wrong. Let's just actually let's just
Speaker 2: say that that's not a thing, and it's going How
Speaker 2: am I showing up for my child? Is it out
Speaker 2: of fear and conditioning or is it out of this
Speaker 2: intentional value place? And how do I keep working on that?
Speaker 2: And I think the main thing to do here is
Speaker 2: separate the two yep, about.
Speaker 3: Who's right and wrong.
Speaker 2: It's just different levels of conditioning, and we're trying to
Speaker 2: work on our own stuff.
Speaker 1: We've got to wind up. But I've got one I
Speaker 1: want you to refon for a little bit because I'm
Speaker 1: fascinated with this. Quite a few of my friends are
Speaker 1: going through real challenges in the moment with this, Like
Speaker 1: right now, one of my best friends got a child
Speaker 1: that does not want to go to school. School avoidance
Speaker 1: seems like it might be some kind of flow on
Speaker 1: effect maybe for some from COVID and two years stuck
Speaker 1: at home and all of that. I don't know what
Speaker 1: the relationship, if any, is, but just talk to us
Speaker 1: about kids not wanting to go to all the rise
Speaker 1: in kids not wanting to go to school.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the anxiety is really peaking, I think with a
Speaker 2: lot of the school issues and sometimes the problem is
Speaker 2: with anxiety, we're trying to go, Okay, we're trying to
Speaker 2: do things differently in honor it. So we're going to
Speaker 2: adapt things for the kids, and sometimes we take it
Speaker 2: too far where we add to the anxiety because the
Speaker 2: number one default way we handle anxiety's avoidance, and sometimes
Speaker 2: by adapt to the environment so much like let's be
Speaker 2: child led, we end up then supporting a kid to
Speaker 2: not go to school.
Speaker 3: Yep. Yeah, So it's almost there's no right or wrong
Speaker 3: answer with this at all.
Speaker 2: It's a spectrum, but it's trying to figure out do
Speaker 2: we need to change the environment more in terms of
Speaker 2: it's actually the best fit of the school for the child,
Speaker 2: Is there other things going on here that we can
Speaker 2: find a better environment, or do we need to make
Speaker 2: this a non negotiable but then focus on things that
Speaker 2: they can control. So it's like, yep, school's happening, But
Speaker 2: what do you need, Like what is that.
Speaker 3: The core of this? Right? What is your end goal?
Speaker 2: Because for a lot of kids, they have strengths, it's sports,
Speaker 2: it's something right, and so it's kind of really trying
Speaker 2: to tap into that for them and going Okay, this
Speaker 2: is how we get there, and so then.
Speaker 3: We descenter school from it.
Speaker 2: Right, School's just the part towards them creating this life
Speaker 2: that they love, the day that they love. So it's
Speaker 2: like we have this bit in the morning and then
Speaker 2: yet they're school, but then there's this other bit right
Speaker 2: where they're working on all this other stuff that they love.
Speaker 2: There's no right or wrong answer to it, but I
Speaker 2: think knowing that the kid has the answers to this,
Speaker 2: we need to figure out ways and I think play
Speaker 2: therapy is obviously great for that too, but we need
Speaker 2: to be able to find ways to really get to
Speaker 2: the core of the issue and also know how we
Speaker 2: responding to the anxiety. Are we contracting, are we trying
Speaker 2: to make so many concentstions that we're actually adding to
Speaker 2: this or are we again yeah, porting them through this
Speaker 2: and making the appropriate adaptations. And there's no right or
Speaker 2: wrong answer, but I think it does really require a
Speaker 2: holistic approach, and for the adults around going, let's be honest,
Speaker 2: like what are we Are we being driven by the
Speaker 2: child's feelings or are we actually being this grounded lighthouse
Speaker 2: where we're trying to guide them and we're not being reactive?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I want to be a lighthouse just
Speaker 1: the ocean.
Speaker 3: I love it that and I just keep using it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like it. You know what I'm going to
Speaker 1: say about you, doctor Sam. You're very good at your job.
Speaker 1: But also we get banged for buck because you talk
Speaker 1: at about one point five, which I've pointed out, but
Speaker 1: I've adjusted, my processing speed has adjusted. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: all my listeners have, but we get about seventy minutes
Speaker 1: of words in a forty five to fifty minute conversation.
Speaker 1: So thank you. It's great value, I hope.
Speaker 3: So I think I'm just making it more efficient for
Speaker 3: all the listeners.
Speaker 1: Right, I think time, Well, the beauty of it is
Speaker 1: you can you can do seventy minutes worth of talking
Speaker 1: and they can always listen to this on zero point
Speaker 1: eight so they can slow it down. You can get
Speaker 1: a seventy minute podcast done in less time. Bibby Bobby Boo.
Speaker 1: Dr Sam Casey. Where do people find you? If they
Speaker 1: want to find you?
Speaker 2: On Instagram at Dr Sam Casey or on my website
Speaker 2: which is www dot doctor Samcasey dot com.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming to play. We appreciate you and
Speaker 1: are you back in full swing? Because it's we're recording
Speaker 1: this on the thirtieth of jan thirtieth September. Is it
Speaker 1: thirty thirty one? Is it thirty one in January.
Speaker 3: That's a good question.
Speaker 1: We should know that people are going to go, You're
Speaker 1: so fucking stupid. You I thought it was all right. Well,
Speaker 1: good luck for the rest of you. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: and we look forward to spending time with you through
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. And we appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Thanks Craig, appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 1: Thanks Sam,