WEBVTT - How AI could solve murders: Graeme Simpfendorfer Pt.1 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.800 Detective see a side of life the average person is 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.080 never exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.120 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.640 no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.400 Join me now as I take you into this world. 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:49.440 Besides using the phone to record a conversation with a 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:53.000 person of interest which resulted in me being charged, I've 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.920 never been accused of being an early adopter of technology. 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.160 But the technology landscape is changing rapidly in the form 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:04.039 of artificial intelligence, and it's going to impact dramatically on crime. 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:04.800 Now. 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.280 I don't want to be left behind, so that's why 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.640 I reached out the former detective and guest on this podcast, 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.400 Graham Simpendorf to have a chat. For the past few years, 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.600 Graham has made it his business to understand AI and 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:20.160 see how it can be used to investigate crime and 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:25.040 also prevent crime. Graham is the CEO of Perigon Investigations 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.559 and specializes in using AI in the fight against crime. 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:31.600 Now we can bury our head in the sand and 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.200 pretend things are not going to change, but they are. 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:36.920 Have a listened to what Graham has to say. I 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.119 think it will become obvious that the utilization of AI 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:42.800 is going to be the biggest change in criminal investigation 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:46.640 since DNA technology came into play in the early nineties. 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.640 I found the chat with Graham fascinating and informative. If 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:52.800 you don't want to be left behind in this brave 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.680 new world of AI, have a listen to what he 0:01:55.760 --> 0:02:00.400 has to say. Graham, thanks for I mean on I 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:01.360 catch Killer's. 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.720 My pleasure, Garran conceiging, well, it is good to see you. 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:05.640 But I've got a confession to make them a little 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:10.960 bit nervous, because when I talk technology, the amount of 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.240 information I don't know can become blatantly obvious, and I 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.320 don't want to come across as a dummy. So I 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:21.160 give you full permission to not laugh at my questions, 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.480 but just explain it in the most simple terms so 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.480 I can understand it. Because when it comes to technology, 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.640 I think if I can understand that, other people can 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:32.000 understand it exactly right. 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.640 Yeah, I find the best way I'll explain it to 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:36.359 some others, as if I'm just explained to my mum 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.160 because she still struggle to turn on the computer. Yeah, 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:40.680 but I think so many people are in that position. 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:44.440 It's changing so rapidly. Everyone's finding a bit hard to 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:45.120 get their head around. 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.320 So yeah, yeah, well it has changed so rapidly, and 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.639 when we talk rapidly, we're talking every sort of six months. 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.880 We're having conversations that six months ago you wouldn't even comprehend, 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:55.160 have you. 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.560 Yeah, exactly right. And I think that's probably one of 0:02:57.560 --> 0:02:59.760 the biggest challenges where we are facing in all parts 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:02.760 of society, is how rapidly it's changing for us that 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:04.720 are stuck in the middle trying to understand it. But 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:06.440 then the kids are the next generation that are picking 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.720 it up so quick and bringing into their employment already. 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:12.400 There's a lot of challenges, but it's also exciting at 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:12.880 the same time. 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:16.320 Well, I think you need to. I half joke, but 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:21.560 because I usually get dragged into technology, I don't embrace 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:26.600 change too readily. But I'm certainly aware of a situation enough. 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:28.080 Now you've got to get ahead of this or you're 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:28.840 going to get left. 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:30.960 Behind, exactly right. And look, we've seen a bit of 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.760 that over our time, both in the cops and just 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.520 in life, where we've seen all these massive changes introductions 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.720 of just computers and emails and how business is done 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.720 electronically tapping your phone to pay that these things were 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.680 unheard of twenty thirty years ago, so now it's just. 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:50.080 Part of that day living. I remember the days, and 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.800 you might. When I first started, it was manual typewriters, 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.760 and then when the electronic typewriters came in, there was 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.360 a couple of old detectives that why would they need 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:04.040 an electronic typewriter? And then these stupid things computers came 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:05.360 in that would never catch on. 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:07.720 That's right. Yeah, it doesn't feel like it was that 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:09.600 long ago, and probably in the scheme of things it wasn't. 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.000 But that highlights I guess how rapid this is changing, 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.200 and it's another technological change that's going to happen really 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.320 quick in the next couple of years to five years, 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:19.960 and we may look back in ten and almost laugh 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:20.800 at some of these days. 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.360 Yeah, whatether you've been doing since you've been out of 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.200 the police. You've spent twenty seven years in the Victorian 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:28.680 Police working as a detective. How long you've been out 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:29.719 and what you've been doing. 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:31.920 Yeah, well it was actually four years ago last week, 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.920 so that's gone really quickly. Took me a couple of 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.360 years to really find myself again and that identity that 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:41.480 we've probably spoken of many times, but I eventually got 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.240 around to start in my own company, Paragrine Investigations and Consultancy, 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.119 and in that space where you're looking at risk and 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:52.080 security for the private sector, but also some private investigations 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.520 on that higher end scale of finding people, of finding 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:57.560 people that don't want to be found. Thanks to some 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.320 previous stuff with obviously Channel ten. 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:03.920 And just for the listeners that don't know that, I'm 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:07.680 also sitting opposite a TV star in part because you're 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:10.640 on the After you left The Left the Cops, you 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:12.880 were on the show called the Hunted. 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.960 Yeah, that's right. Hunted came in to our screens a 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.719 couple of years ago now and that's what led me 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:20.800 to part of this work. So the people I met 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:23.400 through Hunted as now who I work with and collaborate 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.920 with in the private sector. So it's amazing how these 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:26.640 doors open up. 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.920 And the premise of that show was someone just citizens. 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:34.000 It was a reality TV show, but was based on 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.120 the ability of law enforcement to track down people that 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:37.839 were on the runt. 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:39.880 Yeah, well we did just about day and day out 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.000 in the job. But here regular citizens thought they'd give 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:43.760 it a go, try and avoid us, and they had 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:45.920 twenty one days to try and avoid the team of 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.760 hunters for the reality show and a lot of fun. 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:49.920 But just amazing. 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.920 Did that upscale you like what was available? People often 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.920 assume that law enforcement is a cutting edge, but you know, 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.200 when technology changes, sometimes law enforcements a little bit. 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.719 It sure did. The team that was put together in 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.120 the cyber aspect, So everything that was to do with 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:09.320 cyber whether it was online, open source, dark web, spoofing 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.760 on different machines and trying to pretend or trick the 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:14.400 people at the other end as to who they were. 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:16.200 It was a whole new world to me. And like 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.000 we've just said, I had to learn and learn really 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.840 quick and that's obviously led me on to now what 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:22.920 I do in the private sector with Peregrine. 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:27.040 Okay, you've been on the podcast before and we talked 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:28.919 about your career and that, but just for people that 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.839 hadn't listened to that episode, just give us a bit 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.520 by way of background your policing career when you're in 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:35.720 Victoria and the police. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.280 Yeah for sure. So just over twenty seven years in 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.160 the end before I called time on that went through 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.800 all the ranks as usual, up from working the van 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.680 in the streets of Melbourne and then finally into the 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.159 crime squads with a little bit of time at homicide, 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:54.920 robbery and sex offense child abuse units. Two thousand and 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:56.919 nine made them move up to the bush up to 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:00.240 Wodonga up on the border with New South Wales. Ran 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.240 the detective's office up there. Then about the next ten 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.159 years through Black sat Day, Black Summer and all the 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:08.560 different events we had up there, and that's where I 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:09.560 still am. Yeah, I love it. 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.320 Okay, Well, we won't revisit your police career, but if 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:14.240 people want to hear about your police career, you had 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:17.320 some fascinating cases and a lot of stories to tell. 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:21.360 The career police tend to tend to carry with them. 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.880 Another thing that you are doing is you're very much 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:29.040 involved in the advocacy for veteran police. Yeah, what made 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:30.400 evaded you for that? 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:33.200 I think, as I sort of alluded to before that 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.800 first couple of years out for me, I was struggling, 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.640 and it was around those COVID times or post COVID, 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.640 We're just trying to find your identity again. People would 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:43.920 ask what do you do for work? And I struggled 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.280 to come up with an answer and how I felt 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.840 because you know, I used to be a police officer 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:50.400 or I'm not sure what. 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.280 It was funny that because that is your identity, and 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:55.640 I think that's what a lot of people struggle with 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:59.320 because you go through life and regardless of everything else 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.160 you do or even your life, you're identified as a policeman. 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.880 That becomes your identity. So I do understand what you're saying. 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.720 Exactly right, So that you know that journey in that 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:10.520 couple of years, which was pretty rough, you know, some 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.280 highs and lows, but come out the other side eventually. 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.160 With that, I then saw so many mates and you 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.120 would too, that are going through the same thing and 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:21.600 almost the same issues. Of that local identity, loss of identity, 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.000 I should say, you know, what's my purpose now? Because 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.119 your purpose was to serve your community, serve your state, 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:28.720 and you had your team and I guess you tribe 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.200 around you. And when that's gone, who am I now? 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:32.960 So I saw so many people struggling with that. And 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.960 it was around the same time as Police Veterans Victoria 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.559 kicked off sort of a new initiative to fill that gap, 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:40.760 because if you didn't go out on work cover, or 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:43.760 if you didn't go out physically or mentally, well, you 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:45.440 sort of went into a different bucket of no man's 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:47.199 land of just you gone. 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:48.640 Yeah, so there's no context. 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.080 Yeah, So the Police Veterans Victoria was starting. I think 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:52.880 a lot of states are doing a similar thing. So 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.320 start to work with them around helping people that were 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.520 getting out. So we now either help those that are 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.400 transitioning out or we help sort of the very senior 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.840 people in their later stages of life that are struggling, 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.160 but they could connect with us because we understand, we 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.520 understand what it was like to work in the job, 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.400 and we just help them through life and the simple 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:15.679 things that they might be struggling with. Finances, or struggling 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:19.200 with relationships, and we just just sit down and have 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:20.640 a coffee with them and have a chat. So I 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:21.320 really enjoy that. 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:25.240 I think it's worthwhile in that. And I speak with 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:28.640 a lot of military guys, and you know, they spend 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.280 twelve months going through their basic training and turning them 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:35.560 into soldiers and becoming part of the military, and then 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.520 when they leave, they're just cut off. Same with police. 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:41.760 We go through the academy and they're breaking you down 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.719 and rolling you out as a cop. It would be 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:46.800 and I don't think it'll be that expense ive just 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.400 the last couple of months of anyone's career, if they're 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:52.880 going out at their own time, wouldn't it be good 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:58.280 if they did a decompression basically before they helped them 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:00.720 on the little things that you need to be up after. 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:02.960 You've left the police, It's right, all those things about 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:05.400 just starting your own business or what's that next step, 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.040 whether it's another full time role or you start your 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.520 own business. Just all those little things on life that 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.320 are outside the job can be a lot for some people. 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.520 So yeah, it's needed. There's a gap there for sure, 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:18.600 and I think there's a lot of good space some 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.520 programs beyond the badge and the police veterans do do 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:23.040 a lot of work, but there's more that can be done, 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:23.640 that's for sure. 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.920 Well good on you for putting some effort in there. 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:29.120 And I know in the conversations that I had with 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.000 you too, you were touched by the murder of the 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.080 two police officers down in Victoria recently. You knew one 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:34.880 of them very well. 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:36.920 Yeah, well that's that's the area I worked in, so 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.800 you know, the Wangaratta areas. You know, we would work 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:43.239 with them almost daily, if not weekly, of working alongside 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.520 some of those guys, and you know, very sad to 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:48.760 watch that, and that's part of that, you know, grief 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.240 process as well that you know had. I had a 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.280 real sort of personal struggle with I'm out but I 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:55.840 want to help, but you have I've had to step 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:57.880 away and how can I help in other ways? And 0:10:57.920 --> 0:10:59.400 it was just sort of a few messages here and 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:01.160 there to people say, you know, if you need to 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.480 have a chat, I'm here, do your best, but look 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:05.640 after yourself as well. So you're really close to home 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:07.920 that one, and we'll be for obviously a long. 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:10.599 Time because that's the type of situation especially in the 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.280 small community and the rural area. That would hit very hard. 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.160 Everyone with the people. 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.040 Yeah, exactly everyone you knew someone and the people that 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:22.160 responded to, right from ambulance to police to the community, 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:24.880 the pubs and just the local businesses that are affected 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:28.520 by that search and still are. Yeah, it's really tough. 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.640 And once that noise sort of stops and things sort 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:32.800 of start to die down a little, that's where the 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.040 real struggle can really come in, and that's when people's 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:38.640 mental well being can care the focus. 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:40.560 It's just that stage you're going through the grief and 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:44.120 then the focus of dealing with it, and then all 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:45.679 of a sudden that goes quiet and you're left to 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:46.439 your own thoughts. 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:48.960 Yeah, that's a dangerous time. So that's the time I 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:50.559 like to step in a little bit more than a 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:52.800 bit closer and how you're really going, how you're doing 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:54.280 because that noise has stopped. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.600 Okay, all right, Well, AI is a topic of discussion today, 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:03.840 and quite iron I've used AI to get a description. 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:04.960 Of what AI is. 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:06.520 So I'm going to read this out and then we'll 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.840 just for those that don't know AI, this is the 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:15.680 way AI describes itself. AI or Artificial intelligence is the 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:20.040 ability of computer systems to form tasks that typically require 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:24.800 human intelligence, such as learning, problem solving, decision making, and 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:28.400 understanding language. It is a field of computer science that 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:33.840 uses algorithms and data to enable machines to perceive their environment, 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:37.600 learn from experiences, and make decisions or take actions to 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.280 achieve goals. AI can be found in everyday applications like 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:47.440 virtual assistance, recommendation systems and advance web search engines. Okay, 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:51.760 that's AI's definition of AI. There's a lot there, and 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.480 my thinking that's describing what we as a human do 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:56.679 with our brain exactly. 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.800 Yeah, and that's I guess that artificial intelligence piece isn't AI. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.720 So yeah, but it's only as good as what develops 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:05.760 on itself. So as it sort of alluded to, it's 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:11.200 doing large analysis of data or problems that the human 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.120 brain or the human would take hours and hours and hours, 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:15.840 if not days a week to do, and it'll do 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:17.640 it rapidly in seconds. 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.880 Well, using a basic example, if we were talking, if 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.760 we keep it related to a crime or a court matter, 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.559 if case law, a particular type of case law and 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:32.680 precedence is very heavily relied upon in court case law, 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.360 what's a statue? What are the proofs of certain offense? 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.160 All that is readily available on AI, that's right. And 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.319 before that would be a case of we all had 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:44.920 those old law books that we'd keep in our office 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.559 and have the actives looking through case law trying to 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:52.760 work out what way to approach an investigation or present 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:57.880 a matter at court. It's incredible what's readily available the fingertips. 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.880 That's right, and it's so reallyvailable. But then it's a 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.240 matter of also then interpreting that to your case or 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.720 your particular set of circumstances. So yeah, it's great to 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.480 be able to draw that data in from so many 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:12.840 volumes of the back walls or fill with those books 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.080 that we talked of, where would you go to find that? 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.240 Whereas the AI can take you straight to the piece that 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.720 you need, that piece of legislation or the case law, 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.640 and then you, as a human element, can apply that 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:26.160 to your case or your situation. So it just saves 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.760 you so much time. And I actually swear by now 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:30.800 and obviously now that's part of my world. 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.160 Well, like going through the detect this course, and I 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.760 would imagine it would have been very similar for you. 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.560 A lot of it was learning virtually parrot form about 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.200 the Crimes Act. Yeah, the proofs of the fence, that 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.680 type of thing just drummed into you, so you knew 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.720 what it was. Now that's readily available. 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:50.680 Yeah, no excuse now to miss an element of a 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.360 charge or a point of proof to prove a case. 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.120 It's all there, ready to go. And I guess that's 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.480 part of where AI could be used to assist going 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.880 forward in that next step of what does this look 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:03.920 like for investigators? 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.760 So when we talk AI like, I think you can 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.440 have the conversation on the street now on ninety percent 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.360 that people know what you're talking about and acknowledge their 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.600 views in some form. But when has that sort of 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:18.400 come come in the favor. 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:20.880 I think on the last couple of years it really 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.640 everyone sort of embraced the idea because it's been everywhere, 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.800 whether it's you know, your chat GPT to help draft 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.200 things or research things. We've seen it within the school. 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.440 I don't think my sixteen year old daughter will use 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:36.600 chat GPT from how and again for some stuff, But 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.720 you know it's I think we've really sent the last 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:41.840 couple of years and people are starting to obviously lean 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.000 into that a bit more and scratch a bit deeper 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.720 than just saying, oh, AI AI is everything. AI can 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.040 be everything, but it actually you need to look at 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:51.880 what is the problem or what is issue I'm looking 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.480 to solve here? What do I want AI for? That's 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:59.480 probably the key point, because you know, you can't just say, 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.320 let's just great AI into investigations. Well, what part of 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:04.720 an investigation do you want to look at how it's 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.800 come into play? Yes, So that's the broader question that 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.800 needs a lot more thought, And there's so many elements 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:12.640 to it, Yeah, which I'm sure we'll go through. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.600 But it's someone bought up and that it was going 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.000 back probably twelve months or so, and it was someone 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:21.840 sitting here that we're talking about how AI could be used, 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:26.120 and there was a case where the courts rejected it 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:29.240 because you know, and I can't remember the specific offense, 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.040 but if a police officer had reasonable cause to stop 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:36.040 and detain a person police officers, So what was acting 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.040 on my mind at the time, And someone answered that 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.120 I did because it wasn't facial identification, but something came 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.800 up from a computer system, so the police officer was 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.760 being cross examined by the barrister breaking it down so 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:53.880 you didn't have reasonable cause and break it down to 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.400 the point where the officer said, well, actually I didn't, 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.400 but I had it based on that. Then the matter 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:00.800 was was thrown out. 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:02.960 Yeah, well yeah, at what point did you form your 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:04.920 opinion or your belief? Well, I didn't form. 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:09.560 It what was based on Yeah, So chat GPT, I've 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.919 embraced it in the past, i'd say twelve months. But 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.119 explain to people what that is. 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.320 Yeah, well chat GPT is I guess, a whole large 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:23.359 system of data that's worldwide, but it is. It's not Australian, 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:27.560 so it's obviously has a bias towards that Western world, 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.960 but not particularly Australia. But you can ask it anything. 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.960 You can ask it to write you a script for 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.520 a book or a movie, right you write you a novel, 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:40.400 write you emails, or ask about the pyramids. And it's 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.280 just a large data set of all the information basically 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.960 that draws off the wear or whatever data is actually 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:47.960 put into it. So yeah, it's very broad, but you 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.320 can just about ask it to do anything or produce anything, 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:54.240 produce a photo, produce a recording and anything. So it's 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:55.760 the sky's limit. 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.680 With my reluctance to use it, and I pay homage 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:02.800 to my son, and he dragged me into the world 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.560 about using chat GPT. I argue that it feels like 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.919 it's cheating, like it was to do a report, like 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:10.800 a report on something. It might be a report to 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.480 a council about something. He's gone, you can do that 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.800 on chat GPT and what are you talking about, Like, 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.639 I know how to do reports, and he posed a 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:24.440 hypothetical question. We put it to chat GPT and I'm 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.640 reading it. Jesus, that's done it better than I could. 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:31.359 And my reluctance was so I argued, back, game, but 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.400 that's cheating, Like I want to do it. I'm capable 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.600 of doing it. And he said he said these words 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.280 to me, and it sort of resonated with me and 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:40.240 changed my thinking on it. He said, when you went 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:44.280 to university and did you degree, well, you were relying 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.800 on textbooks to get information. And then as it evolved, 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.639 will you relying on the internet to get information to 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.280 help with it? Well, this is just the next step. 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.399 It's evolved. So you're not going to embrace technology. You 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:58.840 stick with your textbook stat you'll go really really good 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:02.240 if you can find the many Moore. That is how 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.720