Speaker 1: A pot production.
Speaker 2: There was one instance Neil where I was with a
Speaker 2: Palestinian who was a Baptist Party member of Saddam Hussein.
Speaker 2: He was a Palestinian but had been brought up in Iraq.
Speaker 2: So this guy was part of the Bath Party and
Speaker 2: he was Saddam Hussein's messenger boy going into New Jersey
Speaker 2: where I lived, and he was by day he was
Speaker 2: like the manager of a country club. By day, dressed nicely,
Speaker 2: loved America. I love America. You know, I shop at
Speaker 2: Sam's Club or Costco. Look at me. I'm a great
Speaker 2: American citizen. But by night, you know, he was something
Speaker 2: else again. And then he was taking trips. You'd go
Speaker 2: to Jordan and then over to Iraq, and then he
Speaker 2: would you know, Saddam would say, hey, we need this
Speaker 2: and that. Check out this scientist, go there, look for
Speaker 2: these to source these materials. You know, we're going to
Speaker 2: war with the United States. So so that I ended
Speaker 2: up in an apartment with him, and very uncomfortable sitting
Speaker 2: in his apartment and he I couldn't stand the guy
Speaker 2: couldn't stand me. I had my hand on my gun
Speaker 2: the whole time I'm sitting down with him, and he says,
Speaker 2: watch this. He said, this is power. Your country sucks.
Speaker 2: This is powered. He puts a VHS tape in there
Speaker 2: and there he is in Baghdad with Saddam Hussein sitting
Speaker 2: at his table and he said, that's power. This guy
Speaker 2: is power, not President Bush, that pussy, this is power.
Speaker 2: And he started ranting and raving and he was so excited,
Speaker 2: you know, and I said, man, this guy he could
Speaker 2: he could whack me, right, So I said, you know
Speaker 2: what I've seen enough, thank you very much. And uh,
Speaker 2: you know out I was.
Speaker 1: Was it was it hard sometimes not to take things personal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I started taking it personal with this guy. You know.
Speaker 2: He he came into our field office and when I
Speaker 2: when I arrived, there was another agent was working this guy.
Speaker 2: But this person was he was snowing this person. He
Speaker 2: was bullshitting this person. He was feeding this person misdirection.
Speaker 2: You know, look look look over there, look at Oh
Speaker 2: it's the Iranians. Oh I have information on the Iranians.
Speaker 2: Oh we'll take it. We'll take that information. But that's
Speaker 2: what he wanted us to do. Meanwhile, he's you know,
Speaker 2: stirring the pot with the Iraqis. That was his whole thing.
Speaker 1: So Yeah, were you a part of the FBI when
Speaker 1: nine to eleven came in or you went part of
Speaker 1: it then?
Speaker 2: No. I had moved on to another federal agency, the
Speaker 2: Department of Justice Inspector General's Office. So at that time
Speaker 2: I was based in the El Paso, Texas on the
Speaker 2: US Mexico border working. I was working corruption cases, federal
Speaker 2: corruption cases. But I remember, that's interesting, so I'm an
Speaker 2: FBI agent when I began. Now I'm investigating FBI agents,
Speaker 2: corrupt FBI agents. So the whole thing had kind of turned.
Speaker 2: And in a way, it was good because the people
Speaker 2: in my organization, many of them were not FBI. They
Speaker 2: were from different agencies. But I knew the FBI. I
Speaker 2: knew their culture, so I was able to effectively kind
Speaker 2: of navigate in the FBI world. So I remember we
Speaker 2: were flying out to San Antonio, Texas to work a
Speaker 2: case against an FBI agent who ended up two of
Speaker 2: them got fired because of our investigation. And that's when
Speaker 2: when we got to the airport, everybody was, you know,
Speaker 2: looking up at the TV screen saying, oh shit, oh
Speaker 2: my god, mother, for what the hell. And I'm looking
Speaker 2: up there going, oh my god, that's that's my city.
Speaker 2: That's did that building just fucking collapse? You know? It
Speaker 2: just I was. And so finally we went back to
Speaker 2: the to the office and my boss we watched TV.
Speaker 2: The whole bunch of us watched TV, and and people
Speaker 2: were just about crying. You know. We knew that a
Speaker 2: lot of people were dying out there as we were
Speaker 2: watching this. And then finally my boss said, guys, go
Speaker 2: home to your families, take care of your families. Just go,
Speaker 2: I'll take care of it here.
Speaker 1: It was so surreal, like when I remember when I
Speaker 1: was when I was watching it, and I just I
Speaker 1: just started doing security at like shopping centers and airports,
Speaker 1: and I just remember it, and everyone just it just
Speaker 1: went on higher left for everything, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And to see the planes go into the buildings, it
Speaker 1: was just like, what what the fuck is happening here?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it was surreal, uh, Neil, And you know,
Speaker 2: I guess so, you know, later I would find out
Speaker 2: that the CIA wasn't talking to the FBI and some
Speaker 2: of these you know, these mopes were in our country
Speaker 2: for months before and uh, you know, and then there
Speaker 2: was a memorandum from an agent in Arizona. That said,
Speaker 2: I think these guys they're they're taking flight lessons. Maybe
Speaker 2: we should look into that a little harder. But it
Speaker 2: never happened, unfortunately, So I always always felt bad about that.
Speaker 2: And in the back of my mind they always thought,
Speaker 2: maybe I wish maybe I should have stayed stayed with
Speaker 2: the FBI, maybe I could have helped. I don't know
Speaker 2: what what did, what did?
Speaker 1: What did make you leave the FBI? How come you did?
Speaker 1: You ain't enjoying it? Or it's just onto another adventure?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, you know, I'm kind of a gypsy. Really,
Speaker 2: I'm you know, was on to another another adventure. And
Speaker 2: I after three years with the bureau, these FBI guys
Speaker 2: x FBI guys contacted me. They said, hey, we heard
Speaker 2: about you, and you know, we're FBI x FBI, and
Speaker 2: there's a very well kept secret in the government. We
Speaker 2: do investigations overseas and we're a small group. And you know,
Speaker 2: you you have a Spanish background. There's an opening in
Speaker 2: Costa Rica, you know, and so maybe you think about it.
Speaker 2: So I thought about it, and I said, I don't know,
Speaker 2: fraud investigations, these are fraud investigations. You know this is
Speaker 2: a corruption, embezzlement, theft. I don't know these things. And
Speaker 2: they said, don't worry, we'll train you in these things.
Speaker 2: And so you know, again this door opened and I
Speaker 2: walked through the door and the next thing you know,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm in Washington, d C. And then I'm in
Speaker 2: Costa Rica, then I'm in l Salvador, and I'm working
Speaker 2: cases in Egypt and all over the world.
Speaker 1: What type of fraud are we looking at for this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know this is contract fraud. Uh, and you
Speaker 2: know this could be any any type embezzlements and you know,
Speaker 2: people bribing, bribing our people to to get contracts and
Speaker 2: and you know you have to go out there and
Speaker 2: do the paperwork and show show it on paperwork, make
Speaker 2: a case, and then present it to the assistant US attorney,
Speaker 2: you know, criminal type case and then hopefully they say, yeah,
Speaker 2: let's prosecute this guy. Things like that. So you know,
Speaker 2: it was a variety of things all the way around.
Speaker 2: It could be from a theft case to someone that
Speaker 2: there was There was one guy in Costa Rica that
Speaker 2: he was an accountant and he was a foreign national
Speaker 2: accountant and one of the one of our girls working
Speaker 2: as an accountant said I don't trust him. Uh, there's
Speaker 2: something wrong with him. In fact, he claims to be
Speaker 2: like have a PhD In accounting, but I don't think
Speaker 2: he even has a high school education. So, you know,
Speaker 2: here was a case. I'm looking at his records and
Speaker 2: you know she was right. He hadn't even gone to
Speaker 2: college and here he was pulling down one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty thousand bucks. So very quietly, you know, we took
Speaker 2: him to the side and said, look, here's what we found.
Speaker 2: You may want to resign. He said, yeah, you got me.
Speaker 2: But he said, but he said to me and my boss,
Speaker 2: could I take you guys to dinner?
Speaker 1: You know, you know when you said you were investigating
Speaker 1: FBI agents before you actually started working as that, did
Speaker 1: you ever see any of that or look at someone
Speaker 1: and go are you doing the dodgy here? Or could
Speaker 1: you ever see that in in anybody when you're working
Speaker 1: alongside them?
Speaker 2: When I when I was working alongside them, frankly, no,
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: Like, what are you looking for in that? Are you
Speaker 1: looking for who's getting paid off? Is that what you're
Speaker 1: looking for when you're investment?
Speaker 2: I mean it, I mean it could be anything from
Speaker 2: a sexual harassment of other employees. You know, receiving money
Speaker 2: is from a foreign agent. You know, maybe one of
Speaker 2: these Middle East guys says, hey, you know, how about
Speaker 2: I give you money and you tell me what's going on. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, that type of thing. But I never, honestly,
Speaker 2: I never ran into that. Fortunately, I never ran into that.
Speaker 2: And really, the only thing Neil that stands out in
Speaker 2: my mind is a former police officer who was now
Speaker 2: an FBI agent treating a police officer in Newark very badly.
Speaker 2: And and I thought, what, you're a former cop and
Speaker 2: you're like talking down to this guy and reaming him
Speaker 2: out and insulting him. And I'm thinking, that sucks. You're
Speaker 2: a cop, your former cop. How do you how can
Speaker 2: you do that? That's so that's really the only thing
Speaker 2: I really saw that kind of you know, so that's
Speaker 2: that's not right. But but no, I didn't see for
Speaker 2: the most part, the men and women in my squad,
Speaker 2: the C ten squad, you know, they were really hard,
Speaker 2: hardworking people, and you know, we were handling a lot
Speaker 2: of terrorism cases from Black Liberation Army to Jewish Defense
Speaker 2: League to uh seek terrorists from you know, India. Uh
Speaker 2: you know the PLO, the IRA. I mean, it was
Speaker 2: the candy store of terrorism. It really was.
Speaker 1: When you actually did go to kind of turn from
Speaker 1: an FBI agent and then go and investigate FBI agents.
Speaker 1: Did anyone turn against you and just go hold on?
Speaker 1: But you were on our side not long ago. Now
Speaker 1: you're investiged. Did they? Did you lose friends from that?
Speaker 1: Or you'd never had to investigate anybody in your division?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: No? No, no, no, thank god, No, I didn't. I
Speaker 2: was again, I was out in the Southwest, so uh,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm looking at the Los Angeles agents and
Speaker 2: Texas agents. But I didn't work with those people before.
Speaker 2: But you know, some of them would joke, hey, you know, hey, hey, Benedict,
Speaker 2: darnold you. But it was always a joke, and I
Speaker 2: always smiled along with them, and and left and then said, look,
Speaker 2: let's let's get down to breast tax. Let's let's talk
Speaker 2: about this, this allegation