WEBVTT - REWIND: Saddam Hussein's Messenger Boy

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<v Speaker 1>A pot production.

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<v Speaker 2>There was one instance Neil where I was with a

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<v Speaker 2>Palestinian who was a Baptist Party member of Saddam Hussein.

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<v Speaker 2>He was a Palestinian but had been brought up in Iraq.

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<v Speaker 2>So this guy was part of the Bath Party and

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<v Speaker 2>he was Saddam Hussein's messenger boy going into New Jersey

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<v Speaker 2>where I lived, and he was by day he was

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<v Speaker 2>like the manager of a country club. By day, dressed nicely,

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<v Speaker 2>loved America. I love America. You know, I shop at

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<v Speaker 2>Sam's Club or Costco. Look at me. I'm a great

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<v Speaker 2>American citizen. But by night, you know, he was something

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<v Speaker 2>else again. And then he was taking trips. You'd go

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<v Speaker 2>to Jordan and then over to Iraq, and then he

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<v Speaker 2>would you know, Saddam would say, hey, we need this

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<v Speaker 2>and that. Check out this scientist, go there, look for

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<v Speaker 2>these to source these materials. You know, we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>war with the United States. So so that I ended

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<v Speaker 2>up in an apartment with him, and very uncomfortable sitting

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<v Speaker 2>in his apartment and he I couldn't stand the guy

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't stand me. I had my hand on my gun

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<v Speaker 2>the whole time I'm sitting down with him, and he says,

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<v Speaker 2>watch this. He said, this is power. Your country sucks.

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<v Speaker 2>This is powered. He puts a VHS tape in there

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<v Speaker 2>and there he is in Baghdad with Saddam Hussein sitting

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<v Speaker 2>at his table and he said, that's power. This guy

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<v Speaker 2>is power, not President Bush, that pussy, this is power.

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<v Speaker 2>And he started ranting and raving and he was so excited,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and I said, man, this guy he could

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<v Speaker 2>he could whack me, right, So I said, you know

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<v Speaker 2>what I've seen enough, thank you very much. And uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you know out I was.

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<v Speaker 1>Was it was it hard sometimes not to take things personal.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I started taking it personal with this guy. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>He he came into our field office and when I

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<v Speaker 2>when I arrived, there was another agent was working this guy.

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<v Speaker 2>But this person was he was snowing this person. He

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<v Speaker 2>was bullshitting this person. He was feeding this person misdirection.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, look look look over there, look at Oh

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<v Speaker 2>it's the Iranians. Oh I have information on the Iranians.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh we'll take it. We'll take that information. But that's

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<v Speaker 2>what he wanted us to do. Meanwhile, he's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>stirring the pot with the Iraqis. That was his whole thing.

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<v Speaker 1>So Yeah, were you a part of the FBI when

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<v Speaker 1>nine to eleven came in or you went part of

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<v Speaker 1>it then?

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<v Speaker 2>No. I had moved on to another federal agency, the

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<v Speaker 2>Department of Justice Inspector General's Office. So at that time

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<v Speaker 2>I was based in the El Paso, Texas on the

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<v Speaker 2>US Mexico border working. I was working corruption cases, federal

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<v Speaker 2>corruption cases. But I remember, that's interesting, so I'm an

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<v Speaker 2>FBI agent when I began. Now I'm investigating FBI agents,

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<v Speaker 2>corrupt FBI agents. So the whole thing had kind of turned.

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<v Speaker 2>And in a way, it was good because the people

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<v Speaker 2>in my organization, many of them were not FBI. They

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<v Speaker 2>were from different agencies. But I knew the FBI. I

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<v Speaker 2>knew their culture, so I was able to effectively kind

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<v Speaker 2>of navigate in the FBI world. So I remember we

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<v Speaker 2>were flying out to San Antonio, Texas to work a

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<v Speaker 2>case against an FBI agent who ended up two of

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<v Speaker 2>them got fired because of our investigation. And that's when

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<v Speaker 2>when we got to the airport, everybody was, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>looking up at the TV screen saying, oh shit, oh

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<v Speaker 2>my god, mother, for what the hell. And I'm looking

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<v Speaker 2>up there going, oh my god, that's that's my city.

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<v Speaker 2>That's did that building just fucking collapse? You know? It

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<v Speaker 2>just I was. And so finally we went back to

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<v Speaker 2>the to the office and my boss we watched TV.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole bunch of us watched TV, and and people

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<v Speaker 2>were just about crying. You know. We knew that a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people were dying out there as we were

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<v Speaker 2>watching this. And then finally my boss said, guys, go

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<v Speaker 2>home to your families, take care of your families. Just go,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll take care of it here.

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<v Speaker 1>It was so surreal, like when I remember when I

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<v Speaker 1>was when I was watching it, and I just I

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<v Speaker 1>just started doing security at like shopping centers and airports,

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<v Speaker 1>and I just remember it, and everyone just it just

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<v Speaker 1>went on higher left for everything, you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>And to see the planes go into the buildings, it

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<v Speaker 1>was just like, what what the fuck is happening here?

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<v Speaker 1>You know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 2>It's yeah, it was surreal, uh, Neil, And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess so, you know, later I would find out

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<v Speaker 2>that the CIA wasn't talking to the FBI and some

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<v Speaker 2>of these you know, these mopes were in our country

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<v Speaker 2>for months before and uh, you know, and then there

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<v Speaker 2>was a memorandum from an agent in Arizona. That said,

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<v Speaker 2>I think these guys they're they're taking flight lessons. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>we should look into that a little harder. But it

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<v Speaker 2>never happened, unfortunately, So I always always felt bad about that.

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<v Speaker 2>And in the back of my mind they always thought,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe I wish maybe I should have stayed stayed with

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<v Speaker 2>the FBI, maybe I could have helped. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>what what did, what did?

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<v Speaker 1>What did make you leave the FBI? How come you did?

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<v Speaker 1>You ain't enjoying it? Or it's just onto another adventure?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know what, you know, I'm kind of a gypsy. Really,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm you know, was on to another another adventure. And

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<v Speaker 2>I after three years with the bureau, these FBI guys

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<v Speaker 2>x FBI guys contacted me. They said, hey, we heard

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<v Speaker 2>about you, and you know, we're FBI x FBI, and

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<v Speaker 2>there's a very well kept secret in the government. We

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<v Speaker 2>do investigations overseas and we're a small group. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you you have a Spanish background. There's an opening in

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<v Speaker 2>Costa Rica, you know, and so maybe you think about it.

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<v Speaker 2>So I thought about it, and I said, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>fraud investigations, these are fraud investigations. You know this is

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<v Speaker 2>a corruption, embezzlement, theft. I don't know these things. And

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<v Speaker 2>they said, don't worry, we'll train you in these things.

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<v Speaker 2>And so you know, again this door opened and I

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<v Speaker 2>walked through the door and the next thing you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm in Washington, d C. And then I'm in

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<v Speaker 2>Costa Rica, then I'm in l Salvador, and I'm working

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<v Speaker 2>cases in Egypt and all over the world.

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<v Speaker 1>What type of fraud are we looking at for this?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know this is contract fraud. Uh, and you

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<v Speaker 2>know this could be any any type embezzlements and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>people bribing, bribing our people to to get contracts and

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<v Speaker 2>and you know you have to go out there and

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<v Speaker 2>do the paperwork and show show it on paperwork, make

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<v Speaker 2>a case, and then present it to the assistant US attorney,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, criminal type case and then hopefully they say, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>let's prosecute this guy. Things like that. So you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a variety of things all the way around.

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<v Speaker 2>It could be from a theft case to someone that

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<v Speaker 2>there was There was one guy in Costa Rica that

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<v Speaker 2>he was an accountant and he was a foreign national

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<v Speaker 2>accountant and one of the one of our girls working

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<v Speaker 2>as an accountant said I don't trust him. Uh, there's

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<v Speaker 2>something wrong with him. In fact, he claims to be

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<v Speaker 2>like have a PhD In accounting, but I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>he even has a high school education. So, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>here was a case. I'm looking at his records and

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<v Speaker 2>you know she was right. He hadn't even gone to

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<v Speaker 2>college and here he was pulling down one hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>fifty thousand bucks. So very quietly, you know, we took

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<v Speaker 2>him to the side and said, look, here's what we found.

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<v Speaker 2>You may want to resign. He said, yeah, you got me.

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<v Speaker 2>But he said, but he said to me and my boss,

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<v Speaker 2>could I take you guys to dinner?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you know when you said you were investigating

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<v Speaker 1>FBI agents before you actually started working as that, did

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<v Speaker 1>you ever see any of that or look at someone

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<v Speaker 1>and go are you doing the dodgy here? Or could

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<v Speaker 1>you ever see that in in anybody when you're working

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<v Speaker 1>alongside them?

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<v Speaker 2>When I when I was working alongside them, frankly, no,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>Like, what are you looking for in that? Are you

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<v Speaker 1>looking for who's getting paid off? Is that what you're

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<v Speaker 1>looking for when you're investment?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it, I mean it could be anything from

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<v Speaker 2>a sexual harassment of other employees. You know, receiving money

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<v Speaker 2>is from a foreign agent. You know, maybe one of

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<v Speaker 2>these Middle East guys says, hey, you know, how about

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<v Speaker 2>I give you money and you tell me what's going on. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, that type of thing. But I never, honestly,

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<v Speaker 2>I never ran into that. Fortunately, I never ran into that.

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<v Speaker 2>And really, the only thing Neil that stands out in

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<v Speaker 2>my mind is a former police officer who was now

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<v Speaker 2>an FBI agent treating a police officer in Newark very badly.

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<v Speaker 2>And and I thought, what, you're a former cop and

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<v Speaker 2>you're like talking down to this guy and reaming him

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<v Speaker 2>out and insulting him. And I'm thinking, that sucks. You're

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<v Speaker 2>a cop, your former cop. How do you how can

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<v Speaker 2>you do that? That's so that's really the only thing

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<v Speaker 2>I really saw that kind of you know, so that's

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<v Speaker 2>that's not right. But but no, I didn't see for

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<v Speaker 2>the most part, the men and women in my squad,

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<v Speaker 2>the C ten squad, you know, they were really hard,

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<v Speaker 2>hardworking people, and you know, we were handling a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of terrorism cases from Black Liberation Army to Jewish Defense

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<v Speaker 2>League to uh seek terrorists from you know, India. Uh

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<v Speaker 2>you know the PLO, the IRA. I mean, it was

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<v Speaker 2>the candy store of terrorism. It really was.

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<v Speaker 1>When you actually did go to kind of turn from

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<v Speaker 1>an FBI agent and then go and investigate FBI agents.

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<v Speaker 1>Did anyone turn against you and just go hold on?

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<v Speaker 1>But you were on our side not long ago. Now

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<v Speaker 1>you're investiged. Did they? Did you lose friends from that?

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<v Speaker 1>Or you'd never had to investigate anybody in your division?

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<v Speaker 1>You know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 2>No? No, no, no, thank god, No, I didn't. I

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<v Speaker 2>was again, I was out in the Southwest, so uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm looking at the Los Angeles agents and

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<v Speaker 2>Texas agents. But I didn't work with those people before.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, some of them would joke, hey, you know, hey, hey, Benedict,

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<v Speaker 2>darnold you. But it was always a joke, and I

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<v Speaker 2>always smiled along with them, and and left and then said, look,

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<v Speaker 2>let's let's get down to breast tax. Let's let's talk

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<v Speaker 2>about this, this allegation