1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: A pot production. 2 00:00:14,041 --> 00:00:16,841 Speaker 2: There was one instance Neil where I was with a 3 00:00:16,921 --> 00:00:22,041 Speaker 2: Palestinian who was a Baptist Party member of Saddam Hussein. 4 00:00:22,161 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 2: He was a Palestinian but had been brought up in Iraq. 5 00:00:26,401 --> 00:00:28,521 Speaker 2: So this guy was part of the Bath Party and 6 00:00:28,601 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: he was Saddam Hussein's messenger boy going into New Jersey 7 00:00:33,161 --> 00:00:35,921 Speaker 2: where I lived, and he was by day he was 8 00:00:36,001 --> 00:00:41,121 Speaker 2: like the manager of a country club. By day, dressed nicely, 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,961 Speaker 2: loved America. I love America. You know, I shop at 10 00:00:45,241 --> 00:00:47,681 Speaker 2: Sam's Club or Costco. Look at me. I'm a great 11 00:00:47,681 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 2: American citizen. But by night, you know, he was something 12 00:00:51,161 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: else again. And then he was taking trips. You'd go 13 00:00:54,241 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: to Jordan and then over to Iraq, and then he 14 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: would you know, Saddam would say, hey, we need this 15 00:00:59,041 --> 00:01:02,241 Speaker 2: and that. Check out this scientist, go there, look for 16 00:01:02,281 --> 00:01:04,801 Speaker 2: these to source these materials. You know, we're going to 17 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,041 Speaker 2: war with the United States. So so that I ended 18 00:01:08,121 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: up in an apartment with him, and very uncomfortable sitting 19 00:01:12,241 --> 00:01:14,801 Speaker 2: in his apartment and he I couldn't stand the guy 20 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,961 Speaker 2: couldn't stand me. I had my hand on my gun 21 00:01:18,321 --> 00:01:21,241 Speaker 2: the whole time I'm sitting down with him, and he says, 22 00:01:21,241 --> 00:01:25,601 Speaker 2: watch this. He said, this is power. Your country sucks. 23 00:01:25,961 --> 00:01:28,761 Speaker 2: This is powered. He puts a VHS tape in there 24 00:01:29,321 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: and there he is in Baghdad with Saddam Hussein sitting 25 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: at his table and he said, that's power. This guy 26 00:01:36,321 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: is power, not President Bush, that pussy, this is power. 27 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,681 Speaker 2: And he started ranting and raving and he was so excited, 28 00:01:43,681 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 2: you know, and I said, man, this guy he could 29 00:01:45,881 --> 00:01:48,321 Speaker 2: he could whack me, right, So I said, you know 30 00:01:48,361 --> 00:01:51,361 Speaker 2: what I've seen enough, thank you very much. And uh, 31 00:01:51,441 --> 00:01:53,041 Speaker 2: you know out I was. 32 00:01:52,721 --> 00:01:55,521 Speaker 1: Was it was it hard sometimes not to take things personal. 33 00:01:55,841 --> 00:01:58,601 Speaker 2: Yeah, I started taking it personal with this guy. You know. 34 00:01:58,721 --> 00:02:01,801 Speaker 2: He he came into our field office and when I 35 00:02:01,961 --> 00:02:06,201 Speaker 2: when I arrived, there was another agent was working this guy. 36 00:02:07,001 --> 00:02:10,161 Speaker 2: But this person was he was snowing this person. He 37 00:02:10,281 --> 00:02:14,641 Speaker 2: was bullshitting this person. He was feeding this person misdirection. 38 00:02:14,921 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: You know, look look look over there, look at Oh 39 00:02:16,841 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: it's the Iranians. Oh I have information on the Iranians. 40 00:02:20,441 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 2: Oh we'll take it. We'll take that information. But that's 41 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,041 Speaker 2: what he wanted us to do. Meanwhile, he's you know, 42 00:02:26,161 --> 00:02:29,601 Speaker 2: stirring the pot with the Iraqis. That was his whole thing. 43 00:02:29,721 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: So Yeah, were you a part of the FBI when 44 00:02:32,121 --> 00:02:34,201 Speaker 1: nine to eleven came in or you went part of 45 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: it then? 46 00:02:34,841 --> 00:02:38,321 Speaker 2: No. I had moved on to another federal agency, the 47 00:02:38,361 --> 00:02:42,881 Speaker 2: Department of Justice Inspector General's Office. So at that time 48 00:02:43,001 --> 00:02:46,321 Speaker 2: I was based in the El Paso, Texas on the 49 00:02:46,441 --> 00:02:52,081 Speaker 2: US Mexico border working. I was working corruption cases, federal 50 00:02:52,081 --> 00:02:55,281 Speaker 2: corruption cases. But I remember, that's interesting, so I'm an 51 00:02:55,401 --> 00:03:00,041 Speaker 2: FBI agent when I began. Now I'm investigating FBI agents, 52 00:03:00,321 --> 00:03:03,601 Speaker 2: corrupt FBI agents. So the whole thing had kind of turned. 53 00:03:04,121 --> 00:03:06,121 Speaker 2: And in a way, it was good because the people 54 00:03:06,161 --> 00:03:09,361 Speaker 2: in my organization, many of them were not FBI. They 55 00:03:09,401 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: were from different agencies. But I knew the FBI. I 56 00:03:12,481 --> 00:03:15,761 Speaker 2: knew their culture, so I was able to effectively kind 57 00:03:15,761 --> 00:03:20,001 Speaker 2: of navigate in the FBI world. So I remember we 58 00:03:20,001 --> 00:03:23,681 Speaker 2: were flying out to San Antonio, Texas to work a 59 00:03:23,721 --> 00:03:26,441 Speaker 2: case against an FBI agent who ended up two of 60 00:03:26,481 --> 00:03:29,601 Speaker 2: them got fired because of our investigation. And that's when 61 00:03:29,641 --> 00:03:32,161 Speaker 2: when we got to the airport, everybody was, you know, 62 00:03:32,201 --> 00:03:34,841 Speaker 2: looking up at the TV screen saying, oh shit, oh 63 00:03:34,881 --> 00:03:37,321 Speaker 2: my god, mother, for what the hell. And I'm looking 64 00:03:37,401 --> 00:03:39,601 Speaker 2: up there going, oh my god, that's that's my city. 65 00:03:39,721 --> 00:03:44,361 Speaker 2: That's did that building just fucking collapse? You know? It 66 00:03:44,521 --> 00:03:47,041 Speaker 2: just I was. And so finally we went back to 67 00:03:47,081 --> 00:03:49,641 Speaker 2: the to the office and my boss we watched TV. 68 00:03:49,721 --> 00:03:52,521 Speaker 2: The whole bunch of us watched TV, and and people 69 00:03:52,521 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 2: were just about crying. You know. We knew that a 70 00:03:54,761 --> 00:03:57,161 Speaker 2: lot of people were dying out there as we were 71 00:03:57,201 --> 00:04:00,441 Speaker 2: watching this. And then finally my boss said, guys, go 72 00:04:00,481 --> 00:04:03,081 Speaker 2: home to your families, take care of your families. Just go, 73 00:04:03,481 --> 00:04:04,401 Speaker 2: I'll take care of it here. 74 00:04:04,721 --> 00:04:07,361 Speaker 1: It was so surreal, like when I remember when I 75 00:04:07,441 --> 00:04:09,641 Speaker 1: was when I was watching it, and I just I 76 00:04:09,721 --> 00:04:13,561 Speaker 1: just started doing security at like shopping centers and airports, 77 00:04:13,921 --> 00:04:16,041 Speaker 1: and I just remember it, and everyone just it just 78 00:04:16,081 --> 00:04:18,521 Speaker 1: went on higher left for everything, you know what I mean. 79 00:04:18,561 --> 00:04:21,081 Speaker 1: And to see the planes go into the buildings, it 80 00:04:21,201 --> 00:04:23,121 Speaker 1: was just like, what what the fuck is happening here? 81 00:04:23,161 --> 00:04:23,641 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 82 00:04:23,681 --> 00:04:27,601 Speaker 2: It's yeah, it was surreal, uh, Neil, And you know, 83 00:04:27,641 --> 00:04:30,041 Speaker 2: I guess so, you know, later I would find out 84 00:04:30,081 --> 00:04:33,601 Speaker 2: that the CIA wasn't talking to the FBI and some 85 00:04:33,721 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 2: of these you know, these mopes were in our country 86 00:04:35,921 --> 00:04:39,681 Speaker 2: for months before and uh, you know, and then there 87 00:04:39,761 --> 00:04:42,801 Speaker 2: was a memorandum from an agent in Arizona. That said, 88 00:04:42,841 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: I think these guys they're they're taking flight lessons. Maybe 89 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: we should look into that a little harder. But it 90 00:04:49,561 --> 00:04:53,721 Speaker 2: never happened, unfortunately, So I always always felt bad about that. 91 00:04:54,161 --> 00:04:56,201 Speaker 2: And in the back of my mind they always thought, 92 00:04:56,201 --> 00:04:58,681 Speaker 2: maybe I wish maybe I should have stayed stayed with 93 00:04:58,761 --> 00:05:01,761 Speaker 2: the FBI, maybe I could have helped. I don't know 94 00:05:01,761 --> 00:05:02,721 Speaker 2: what what did, what did? 95 00:05:02,801 --> 00:05:04,921 Speaker 1: What did make you leave the FBI? How come you did? 96 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,561 Speaker 1: You ain't enjoying it? Or it's just onto another adventure? 97 00:05:07,921 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, you know, I'm kind of a gypsy. Really, 98 00:05:12,001 --> 00:05:14,721 Speaker 2: I'm you know, was on to another another adventure. And 99 00:05:15,481 --> 00:05:19,521 Speaker 2: I after three years with the bureau, these FBI guys 100 00:05:19,761 --> 00:05:22,681 Speaker 2: x FBI guys contacted me. They said, hey, we heard 101 00:05:22,681 --> 00:05:25,601 Speaker 2: about you, and you know, we're FBI x FBI, and 102 00:05:25,841 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: there's a very well kept secret in the government. We 103 00:05:28,481 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 2: do investigations overseas and we're a small group. And you know, 104 00:05:33,281 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 2: you you have a Spanish background. There's an opening in 105 00:05:36,961 --> 00:05:39,841 Speaker 2: Costa Rica, you know, and so maybe you think about it. 106 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,601 Speaker 2: So I thought about it, and I said, I don't know, 107 00:05:42,801 --> 00:05:46,481 Speaker 2: fraud investigations, these are fraud investigations. You know this is 108 00:05:46,601 --> 00:05:50,561 Speaker 2: a corruption, embezzlement, theft. I don't know these things. And 109 00:05:50,601 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: they said, don't worry, we'll train you in these things. 110 00:05:53,681 --> 00:05:56,441 Speaker 2: And so you know, again this door opened and I 111 00:05:56,801 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 2: walked through the door and the next thing you know, 112 00:05:58,721 --> 00:06:01,241 Speaker 2: I'm I'm in Washington, d C. And then I'm in 113 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,721 Speaker 2: Costa Rica, then I'm in l Salvador, and I'm working 114 00:06:04,081 --> 00:06:06,721 Speaker 2: cases in Egypt and all over the world. 115 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,201 Speaker 1: What type of fraud are we looking at for this? 116 00:06:09,681 --> 00:06:12,681 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know this is contract fraud. Uh, and you 117 00:06:12,681 --> 00:06:16,841 Speaker 2: know this could be any any type embezzlements and you know, 118 00:06:17,001 --> 00:06:22,561 Speaker 2: people bribing, bribing our people to to get contracts and 119 00:06:22,561 --> 00:06:23,841 Speaker 2: and you know you have to go out there and 120 00:06:24,081 --> 00:06:26,601 Speaker 2: do the paperwork and show show it on paperwork, make 121 00:06:26,641 --> 00:06:31,801 Speaker 2: a case, and then present it to the assistant US attorney, 122 00:06:31,921 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: you know, criminal type case and then hopefully they say, yeah, 123 00:06:34,801 --> 00:06:38,041 Speaker 2: let's prosecute this guy. Things like that. So you know, 124 00:06:38,041 --> 00:06:40,241 Speaker 2: it was a variety of things all the way around. 125 00:06:40,241 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: It could be from a theft case to someone that 126 00:06:43,601 --> 00:06:45,481 Speaker 2: there was There was one guy in Costa Rica that 127 00:06:45,561 --> 00:06:48,601 Speaker 2: he was an accountant and he was a foreign national 128 00:06:48,641 --> 00:06:51,841 Speaker 2: accountant and one of the one of our girls working 129 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,721 Speaker 2: as an accountant said I don't trust him. Uh, there's 130 00:06:55,721 --> 00:06:58,721 Speaker 2: something wrong with him. In fact, he claims to be 131 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,001 Speaker 2: like have a PhD In accounting, but I don't think 132 00:07:03,001 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 2: he even has a high school education. So, you know, 133 00:07:05,641 --> 00:07:07,641 Speaker 2: here was a case. I'm looking at his records and 134 00:07:08,001 --> 00:07:10,081 Speaker 2: you know she was right. He hadn't even gone to 135 00:07:10,161 --> 00:07:13,121 Speaker 2: college and here he was pulling down one hundred and 136 00:07:13,201 --> 00:07:17,041 Speaker 2: fifty thousand bucks. So very quietly, you know, we took 137 00:07:17,121 --> 00:07:19,201 Speaker 2: him to the side and said, look, here's what we found. 138 00:07:19,961 --> 00:07:24,361 Speaker 2: You may want to resign. He said, yeah, you got me. 139 00:07:24,961 --> 00:07:27,041 Speaker 2: But he said, but he said to me and my boss, 140 00:07:27,081 --> 00:07:28,321 Speaker 2: could I take you guys to dinner? 141 00:07:31,401 --> 00:07:33,801 Speaker 1: You know, you know when you said you were investigating 142 00:07:34,441 --> 00:07:38,401 Speaker 1: FBI agents before you actually started working as that, did 143 00:07:38,441 --> 00:07:40,801 Speaker 1: you ever see any of that or look at someone 144 00:07:40,841 --> 00:07:43,121 Speaker 1: and go are you doing the dodgy here? Or could 145 00:07:43,201 --> 00:07:45,881 Speaker 1: you ever see that in in anybody when you're working 146 00:07:45,921 --> 00:07:46,601 Speaker 1: alongside them? 147 00:07:46,601 --> 00:07:49,801 Speaker 2: When I when I was working alongside them, frankly, no, 148 00:07:49,961 --> 00:07:50,481 Speaker 2: I mean. 149 00:07:51,881 --> 00:07:54,561 Speaker 1: Like, what are you looking for in that? Are you 150 00:07:54,601 --> 00:07:56,881 Speaker 1: looking for who's getting paid off? Is that what you're 151 00:07:56,921 --> 00:07:58,321 Speaker 1: looking for when you're investment? 152 00:07:58,401 --> 00:08:00,481 Speaker 2: I mean it, I mean it could be anything from 153 00:08:00,561 --> 00:08:05,681 Speaker 2: a sexual harassment of other employees. You know, receiving money 154 00:08:05,761 --> 00:08:08,201 Speaker 2: is from a foreign agent. You know, maybe one of 155 00:08:08,241 --> 00:08:11,561 Speaker 2: these Middle East guys says, hey, you know, how about 156 00:08:11,601 --> 00:08:14,001 Speaker 2: I give you money and you tell me what's going on. Yeah, 157 00:08:14,361 --> 00:08:16,481 Speaker 2: you know, that type of thing. But I never, honestly, 158 00:08:16,521 --> 00:08:19,841 Speaker 2: I never ran into that. Fortunately, I never ran into that. 159 00:08:20,361 --> 00:08:22,521 Speaker 2: And really, the only thing Neil that stands out in 160 00:08:22,561 --> 00:08:26,441 Speaker 2: my mind is a former police officer who was now 161 00:08:26,441 --> 00:08:31,401 Speaker 2: an FBI agent treating a police officer in Newark very badly. 162 00:08:31,601 --> 00:08:34,241 Speaker 2: And and I thought, what, you're a former cop and 163 00:08:34,281 --> 00:08:36,961 Speaker 2: you're like talking down to this guy and reaming him 164 00:08:37,001 --> 00:08:40,841 Speaker 2: out and insulting him. And I'm thinking, that sucks. You're 165 00:08:40,881 --> 00:08:42,641 Speaker 2: a cop, your former cop. How do you how can 166 00:08:42,681 --> 00:08:44,601 Speaker 2: you do that? That's so that's really the only thing 167 00:08:44,681 --> 00:08:47,961 Speaker 2: I really saw that kind of you know, so that's 168 00:08:48,041 --> 00:08:50,841 Speaker 2: that's not right. But but no, I didn't see for 169 00:08:50,881 --> 00:08:53,681 Speaker 2: the most part, the men and women in my squad, 170 00:08:53,921 --> 00:08:57,521 Speaker 2: the C ten squad, you know, they were really hard, 171 00:08:57,601 --> 00:09:00,801 Speaker 2: hardworking people, and you know, we were handling a lot 172 00:09:00,841 --> 00:09:05,801 Speaker 2: of terrorism cases from Black Liberation Army to Jewish Defense 173 00:09:05,921 --> 00:09:11,201 Speaker 2: League to uh seek terrorists from you know, India. Uh 174 00:09:11,641 --> 00:09:13,841 Speaker 2: you know the PLO, the IRA. I mean, it was 175 00:09:13,881 --> 00:09:16,281 Speaker 2: the candy store of terrorism. It really was. 176 00:09:16,561 --> 00:09:19,601 Speaker 1: When you actually did go to kind of turn from 177 00:09:19,601 --> 00:09:22,721 Speaker 1: an FBI agent and then go and investigate FBI agents. 178 00:09:22,921 --> 00:09:25,761 Speaker 1: Did anyone turn against you and just go hold on? 179 00:09:25,801 --> 00:09:27,881 Speaker 1: But you were on our side not long ago. Now 180 00:09:27,881 --> 00:09:30,041 Speaker 1: you're investiged. Did they? Did you lose friends from that? 181 00:09:30,321 --> 00:09:33,921 Speaker 1: Or you'd never had to investigate anybody in your division? 182 00:09:34,241 --> 00:09:34,761 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? 183 00:09:35,361 --> 00:09:37,361 Speaker 2: No? No, no, no, thank god, No, I didn't. I 184 00:09:37,801 --> 00:09:40,481 Speaker 2: was again, I was out in the Southwest, so uh, 185 00:09:40,561 --> 00:09:43,321 Speaker 2: you know, I'm looking at the Los Angeles agents and 186 00:09:43,601 --> 00:09:46,881 Speaker 2: Texas agents. But I didn't work with those people before. 187 00:09:46,921 --> 00:09:49,921 Speaker 2: But you know, some of them would joke, hey, you know, hey, hey, Benedict, 188 00:09:50,001 --> 00:09:54,001 Speaker 2: darnold you. But it was always a joke, and I 189 00:09:54,041 --> 00:09:57,441 Speaker 2: always smiled along with them, and and left and then said, look, 190 00:09:57,481 --> 00:10:00,281 Speaker 2: let's let's get down to breast tax. Let's let's talk 191 00:10:00,321 --> 00:10:01,601 Speaker 2: about this, this allegation