WEBVTT - Sharri | 13 November 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:03.000 Live on Sky News. 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:08.200 This is Shari Good Evening. Calib Bond in for Shari tonight. 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:12.160 Coming up on the program, Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek under 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:15.160 more pressure over her dodgy decision to hold a billion 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:18.440 dollar gold mine. Now one of the biggest labor affiliated 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:21.800 unions has spoken out. Gary Hartgrave and Darren Barnett will 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.479 join me to talk about that. Also on the show, 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:27.520 a teenager who attacked the office of a Jewish MP 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:31.160 won't be given a criminal record. Peter Wertheim from the 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.160 Executive Council of Australian Jury will be on the show. 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.920 And are you over the age of fifty and drive well, 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:39.680 you might be in a bit of trouble because a 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.199 new report is suggesting that you should be forced to 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:46.800 refresh your memory with some mandatory lessons. Car Expert founder 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:51.000 Paul Marrick. We'll discuss that with me later now. Tanya Plibiseik, 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:53.760 of course, as I said before, pressure is mounting on her, 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:57.520 the Environment Minister, over her decision to stop the mcphillamy's 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.480 gold mine in New South Wales after the biggest union 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:05.679 in the country sorry condemned her reasoning. The Australian Workers' Union, 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:09.480 of course, inextricably linked to the Labor Party, has voted 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.000 to censium as Plibasik for blocking the billion dollar min 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:16.560 and over concerns its tailing dam would be detrimental to 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:21.400 Aboriginal heritage. The Daily Telegraph reported today that the AWU 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:25.160 members passed the motion at the union's national conference in 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:29.000 Perth yesterday, accusing her of not providing any real evidence 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:33.040 to support her decision. The motion read quote the minister's 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.800 declaration relies on a little used provision that affords the 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:40.199 Minister wide discretion to make a decision regarding an area 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:44.039 after receiving a report seeking to preserve that area from 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:49.360 injury or desecration. However, in issuing the declaration blocking the 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:53.280 mcphillamy's mind, the Minister failed to produce any evidence used 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.400 to justify their decision. This amounts to a lack of 0:01:56.440 --> 0:02:01.160 transparency transparency sorry, and gives rise to uestions around rigor 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:06.040 and fairness in the decision making process. AWU New South 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:10.600 Wales Secretary Tony Callanan also told The Daily Telegraph that 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:14.360 the decision to block the mcphillamy's mine without a shred 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.880 of evidence is an insult to the workers of Blaney 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:22.160 and every community that depends on mining. When six hundred 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.079 livelihoods are on the line, the least the government can 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:29.520 do is be transparent. AWU members and the entire mining 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.800 community deserve better than decisions made in the dark. The 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.600 AWU stands with the people of Blaney and demands a 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.880 fair process. The Minister should put all the evidence on 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.720 the table for all to see. The workers of Blaney 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:49.519 deserve far better. The AWU won't stand by while six 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:53.560 hundred jobs are lost because of political games played behind 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:57.200 closed doors. And that's the real point here. Was the 0:02:57.240 --> 0:02:59.959 decision to block a billion dollar mine on the Bay 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.640 of Aboriginal Heritage, even though it wasn't opposed by the 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:07.960 local Aboriginal Land Council a decision based in fact and 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.919 what is best for the environment, or would it be 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.400 because it would best appeal to the voters of miss Pipersix, 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.640 inner city seat of Sydney. We know, as I just 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:21.440 said that the local Aboriginal Land Council, the body authorized 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.040 to advise on matters of cultural heritage and the like, 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.800 was not opposed to the project. His former New South 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:31.440 Wales Aboriginal Land Council Chairman Roy RC. 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:37.320 Just for the record, PRIs the Orange Low Abage Land 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:40.480 Council wasn't opposed to the mind exactly right. 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:41.920 There wasn't opposed. 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.680 So what that says to me is that obviously they 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:49.400 were happy with the surveys, the side assessments, etc. 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:49.880 Etc. 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:56.839 So what's happened here is the Minister at the Commonwealth 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:03.080 level as listened to another group and that's very very concerning. 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:06.800 We know that one of the indigenous people whose submission 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:11.000 helped inform Miss pliber SC's decision, artist Nai Reynolds, sent 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.000 in a series of her own paintings to explain why 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.840 the mine should not be allowed to go ahead. We 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.799 know that the artists who painted the blue Banded Bee 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.560 Dreaming story mural that was used in Miss Plibertsex's evidence 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.080 to halt the mine was a member of the main 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.880 group that fought against the mine, and that the Orange 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:33.320 Local Aboriginal Land Council had never previously heard of this story. 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.560 Miss Plibersek, in her reasons, said she was satisfied that 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:41.799 the proprietary and pecuniary impacts to the proponent and others 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:45.760 do not outweigh the irreversible damage and permanent loss to 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:50.200 the Aboriginal cultural heritage in the declared area, despite the 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:55.160 fact that supposed cultural heritage is disputed. She also said, 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:58.000 as I'm sure you know that the mining company Regis 0:04:58.040 --> 0:04:59.960 should just find another way to do the project. 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:03.400 I haven't blocked a gold mine. I've said that the 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.240 tailing stam that's proposed for the Goal mine can't be 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.760 built on the headwaters and springs of the Belubula River. 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.000 My decision applies to sixteen percent of a two and 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:15.159 a half thousand hectare site, and I've made very clear 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.440 that if the company goes ahead and moves the tailing stam, 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.000 and they've said they've investigated thirty different design options for 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.599 the tailing stam, then the project can go ahead. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.039 But Regis has now gone to the federal court to 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.240 have the decision overturned because it says the mine is 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:35.960 now unviable. MSS Blibisk still hasn't truly answered why this 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.479 decision was made. She hasn't given any real evidence. She 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:44.080 hasn't answered the competing stories between Aboriginal groups, or why 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.560 she took the word of artists over the local Aboriginal 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:51.080 Land Council and now the biggest union in the country, 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:55.360 Labor Aligned Union says that she is playing political games. 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.800 Is she the environment minister or the Minister for sandbagging 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:06.000 life votes against the Greens. Well, it's now been confirmed 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.280 that next year cigarettes will need to have a health warning, 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.520 not only printed on the packet with that lovely baby 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:17.120 pooh green color, but on the cigarettes themselves. By April, 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.840 every cigarette has to have a warning on it. This 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:22.359 is some of what you can expect. 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:25.839 Some examples of the messages that might be used or 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:30.440 that are open for public consultation are toxic addiction poisons 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:35.039 in every puff causes sixteen cancers, damages your lungs. 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.240 Can we just take a moment to acknowledge just how 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:45.119 stupid that is? Does anyone in government, in public health 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:51.640 anywhere believe this is actually going to stop anyone from smoking? Seriously, 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.039 if you've managed to get past the decades of public 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.719 health education, the anti smoking ads, the fact that cigarette 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.000 adds are banned, the brow beating from the health teachers 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.600 at school, the concern chats from friends and family, Oh, 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:08.000 I think you should give up? Have you tried giving up? 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.240 That's bad for you? You know? Of course, you know 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.840 there's the dirty looks from busybodies on the street, the 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:17.560 lecture every time you go to the doctor, the fact 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.200 that you have to huddle in some hidden corner somewhere 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.720 to smoke in public, and of course those graphic warnings 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.600 on the front of the packet. And somehow, if you've 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.640 managed to get past all of that, you open up 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.600 the packet, you pull out a diarry, You see a 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:36.480 trite slogan written on the side of the filter, and 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:40.400 you go, that's it. I can't smoke. I've just realized 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.160 that it's bad for me. I mean, there are only 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:47.040 two reasons anyone is still smoking. They're either thoroughly addicted 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.760 and no matter how hard they try, they can't give 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:52.880 it up, or they thoroughly enjoy it, and no matter 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.520 how hard you try to make them give it up, 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.800 they won't. No one is sucked into smoking anymore, a 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:05.000 minority activity hated by most people. Writing that death is 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.360 near on the side of a cigarette isn't going to 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:13.280 turn the dial. Honestly, how can anyone with even half 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:16.720 a brain think that this is actually going to do 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:21.200 anything except perhaps drive even more people to the illegal 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:25.040 tobacco market, which is huge. It's about a third of 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:29.440 the entire tobacco market in Australia on current estimations. Now, 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.640 that's tax that the government misses out on on those cigarettes, 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.440 and its money, as I've talked about many times before, 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.480 that ends up in the hands of organized crime gangs 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.920 that then use it for their grizzly activities including murder 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:45.080 and sex trafficking, so on and so forth. Now, one 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:48.040 of the problems with this new health warning business is 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.000 that in order for it to be done, manufacturers have 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:53.320 to buy new equipment and they have to change their 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:57.319 practices to move in line with the new rules. These regulations, 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.680 by the way, were only sent out at the end 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.760 of life last month and they come in in April. 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.080 It's not all that long, it's less than six months, 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.920 and shops will be allowed to sell existing stock for 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.440 three months from April, but after that anything left over 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.360 will have to be pulped and any new stock will 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.960 have to have the warnings on them. Now, because of 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.960 the tight time frames to get all this done, there's 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.360 concern from retailers that there will be a temporary supply 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.959 crunch on cigarettes, which would make people even more likely 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.080 to seek out the illicit product. Yes, even though it 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.880 is illegal, you can buy it in pretty much any 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.599 convenience store or tobagonists in the country. And if you 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.160 talk to the independent supermarkets and they have, they'll tell 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.640 you that they are losing money hand over fist on cigarettes, 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:48.640 not because fewer people are smoking, but because their customers 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.640 are going to illegal shops down the road. And would 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:53.679 you believe it, the people who would normally go into 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:57.800 a supermarket and buy cigarettes also buy other things in small, 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:02.600 local independent supermarkets, losing revenue that they could spend on 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:06.760 employing local people. So did the Health Department take into 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.000 account the illegal market when they made their decision? 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.080 I mean, I suppose that whether rubber hits the rona 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:16.160 raises before in this committee, is every smoker I know 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:21.800 these days buys what's colloquly known as chop chop, not 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:28.160 necessarily chopped up, but just buy illegal tobacco. Presumably this 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.640 is going to play into that market's hands, mayn't it. 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:32.240 I mean, has there been an analysis of that that 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:37.600 if wholesom manufacturers can't make these legal obligations, the market 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:41.280 will just get filled with illegal tobacco. Has that risk 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:42.480 been considered? 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:45.679 Senator? I think Australia has one of the strongest records 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.480 in tobacco control in the world, which I think we're 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:49.280 rightly proud of. 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.240 But that doesn't answer my question with all respect, because 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.440 I'm sure I totally agree with that, but everybody would 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:54.840 agree with that. 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.600 No answer there, so Matt Canavan tried again. 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.480 Question is whether or not the Department, as part of 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:07.160 good policy making practices, has analyzed the risk of these obligations, 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:11.760 especially the accelerated time frame to introduce these regulations, could 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.480 have an impact on encouraging more tobacco. 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:17.800 Senator, So, I think the role of the Department in 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:22.079 terms of the Health portfolio is to continue the best 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.520 measures possible to avoid people taking up smoking, whether that 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:29.760 is legal or illegal tobacco. The best measure against people 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:32.240 is dissuading them from smoking in the first place, which 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:33.640 has been the focus of this legend. 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.480 Can you answer my question with all respect not just. 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.040 It's not Health's job to do that. I mean it's not. 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:43.960 Health job to evaluate the risks health comes. 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.200 Finance Minister Katie Gallahers says it's not a matter for 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:51.800 the Health Department. They wonder that they come up with 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.760 such hair brained ideas. Now you can take this to 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:59.439 the bank. This will do nothing to stop people from smoking. 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.280 It's all about health. Well, what about the health of 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.520 people that he's threatened every day by organized crime gangs which, 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.400 thanks to the ridiculous price of cigarettes caused by the 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:13.720 federal government's extortion at taxes, now has a lucrative market 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.840 in illicit tobacco. How stupid do they think? We are 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.120 down in Victoria where more than one hundred tobacconists have 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:24.680 been firebombed thanks to gangs fighting over control of the 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:28.040 illicit tobacco market. The Allen government is now planning to 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.920 introduce the strictest tobacco licensing laws in the country to 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.480 try to shut down illegal sellers. But this shouldn't be 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.880 the state's problem. This is a mess created by the 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:42.360 federal government through extortion at tax and they ought to 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:49.160 be the ones to clean it up. Lots to get 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.640 through tonight, Let's jump straight into my panel, Sky and 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.920 News contributor Gary Hardgrave and form of Press Secretary to 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:59.080 Julia Gillard, Darren Barnett. First, let's talk about the news 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.199 from the AWE today. They've had to go at Tanya 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:06.440 Plibastique over the decision over the mcphillamy's gold mine. Gary. 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:10.000 You know, the longer this goes on, the dodgy it 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:14.800 seems to be Tanua. Pipistick still has not answered why 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.640 there are discrepancies between the advice she took from one 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.319 Aboriginal group and the advice that comes from the actual 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:26.680 local Aboriginal Land council. Why can't she simply tell us 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:27.520 what's going on. 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.559 Because she has no idea what she's doing. This woman 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:38.840 is a walking, talking sovereign risk to Australia. She is 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:42.760 the member for Sydney. She lives in an isolated view 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:45.840 of the world, she thinks, and she's keeping the Greens 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:49.400 at bay in her electorate. There's coverning her seat, so 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.560 to speak. She thinks she knows best. She's morally and 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.679 intellectually superior to anybody who actually wants to do something 0:13:55.760 --> 0:14:00.680 practical like well, create jobs, create mining job. She did 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:04.880 the same thing to a marvelous proposal to deal with 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.920 a Jetty landing area and turn it into a marvelous 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:14.679 housing development in the eastern Bayside areas around Brisbane. In Cleveland, 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:19.239 she killed off eleven billion dollars worth of likely economic 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:21.800 activity in that area alone. It was going to create 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.440 many thousands of jobs and homes for hundreds, if not 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.960 more people. I mean, this woman really doesn't get it. 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.480 She doesn't understand and I think she's second only to 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.880 Chris Bowen when it comes to a genuine risk to 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.600 economic viability. That's a big statement. And it all comes 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.680 back to the bloke who appointed her, the bloke and 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.480 the seat next door and the other inner city seat 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.360 in Sydney, in Gradlar. I mean, this is a government 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:51.840 that doesn't know real Australia at all, presumes it does, 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.960 cherry picks the advice they want to suit the narrative 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.800 in their own area. It's a real peril and she's 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:00.960 got to go, and I hope the Greens will knock 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:02.440 her off and put her out of a misery. 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.040 Frankly, well, I'll declare that I live in Graindler and 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.680 I will personally say that I don't live in real Australia. 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.280 I've seen some of my neighbors, but Darren, obviously the 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:15.880 AWU is aligned to a different faction to Tania plibisk. 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:19.600 But how worried should she be about the union movement 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:20.880 getting involved in this fight? 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.720 It is actually a pretty significant step, Okaylie, I agree 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:28.440 with that. And therefore, whether it's through national conference or 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:32.800 whether it's through the soft pressure that comes via the 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.600 union movement into the Labor Party, you don't want affiliated 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:41.040 unions being opposed to decisions that are made by government. 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.320 But a couple of things to unpack. Firstly, the Greens 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.680 won't win Tanya's seat while she's there, and I don't 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:52.240 think the decision is based on any particular view towards 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:58.120 assuaging the voters of her electorate. I think what you'll find, Gary, 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.440 I hope you agree with me. The EPBA came in 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.840 early two thousands seek Robert Hill was Environment Minister and 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.000 I've never heard an environment minister since who loves that act. 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:12.440 It's a difficult act to administer. It's a very opaque document. 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:17.280 It's a complicated set of rules and criteria, and I 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:19.280 think that's part of the reason why Labour's trying to 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.400 bring in a national EPA and some other new rules. 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.840 So I think you can criticize a lot of decisions 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:29.880 under the EPBC. Maybe Tanny's got it right, maybe she's 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.280 got it wrong, and we will see when that pressure 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.240 comes to her head. Whether the decision remains or whether 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.680 her argument that sixteen percent of the land in question 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.880 is what she is trying to protect. Maybe that prevails, 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.800 we will see she will lose some skin, but I 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.880 spect she'll dig down on her decision and unless there's 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:51.920 new evidence, we're not going to see a change. 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.360 And that's a bit it will play out in the courts, 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.800 of course. Now there's another ordinary poll result for the 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.680 Albanezi government that the latest sec Ugate of the Nation 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.879 survey found that the coalition has overtaken labor on cost 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.080 of living management for the first time since the election, 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:10.760 and seventy two percent of voters also said that cost 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.600 of living was their top issue, which is no great surprise, 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:17.200 but Garia, I think it proves people are losing confidence 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.240 in the ability of the federal government to actually deliver 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:24.160 any kind of financial benefit to them. 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.040 A part of the problem is government is infering in 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.800 everybody's lives in every possible way these days, and what 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:32.960 people really want is for government to get out of 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:36.199 their lives. You know, we can trust private citizens to 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:39.000 work out what's best for them. We actually don't need 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.400 to be losing enormous amounts of the wages that our 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:46.800 bosses pay in the form of compulsory superannuation. We should 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.479 be allowing people to actually make use of their money 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.879 now today to deal with the problems they have today, 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.119 to invest into the future. And that means for younger Australians, 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.480 let them access their super and let them actually get 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:02.840 that super in place to buy a house and once 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.240 that house, if they sell it at a later stage, 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:07.640 they can repay their super account at a later point. 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.440 I mean, why is it that government wants to control 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:12.560 all of our actions and I think the cost of 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:16.439 living thing. Every time they put pressure on supermarkets and 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.199 say we're going to crack down on supermarket pricing, the 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.280 first person in the supply chain, the farmers or the 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.639 producers of that item, they're the ones they're going to 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.520 suffer the most. So again, I think people are able 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.160 to work this thing out like what they've done in America, 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.120 where they've gone against woke and stood for the workers. 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.520 And that's where I think a lot of people's heads 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:37.720 are at right now. I think there's a big wave 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.800 coming and that's going to swamp this government because it's 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.320 lost its way. It's just simply lost its way. 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.000 Well, I think the Prime Minister should be worried, Darren, 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.879 because if you look at our western allies, the US, 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.399 the UK leaders that have presided over cost of living 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:57.000 crises have been booted and the one bit of relief 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.000 that Albo would be hoping for, which is of course, 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:01.600 is an interest rate cut, may will not happen by 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.840 the time he goes to a federal election. I think 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.359 this is actually starting to be the biggest thorn in 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:08.000 his side. 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.879 Look, the numbers are not the trend is not his friend. 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.400 I think it's fair to say. And the numbers it's 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:18.000 still close thirty to twenty nine percent, but equally that 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:22.080 margin was much greater as little as a few months ago. 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.399 So there is work to do for the Albanesi government, 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.359 that's for sure. And I think that rate cut is 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:32.320 an important part of their re election strategy, that that's 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.720 what they're waiting for before they pulled the trigger for 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.359 an election. I look through that poll. They do say 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.280 that sixty six percent of voters or two thirds of voters, 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:43.720 that it would not impact their vote if there was 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:45.960 a rate cut. I'm not sure about that. I think 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.320 if people thought we had turned the corner economically, the 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:52.600 support would be much stronger. So it's to me it's 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.119 very much a question of when will we get a 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.040 rate cut and will it be in time ahead of 0:19:58.040 --> 0:19:58.520 the election. 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.399 They'll certainly be begging for a rape cut. And I 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:04.520 mean I said more than a year ago that if 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:08.160 you had a rape cut there would be an early election. 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:10.160 Now I don't know that we're actually going to get 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.040 her an early election, but you know, I would have 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.359 thought that was the easiest thing to do very quickly 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:17.280 before we go. I don't know whether you saw this 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.760 story today. I couldn't get over it. Some people need 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:21.840 to get it through their heads. I think that Donald 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:25.600 Trump is actually the president the majority of American voters 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.160 just chose. I mean, you think putting a Maga hat 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:30.560 on would be pretty safe thing to do now, Not 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.720 for singer a Hailey Mary. She's an Australian singer, lead 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.240 singer of the Jezebels. They had a bit of success. 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:38.840 She put a photo up online of herself in a 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:42.639 Maga hat in a post opposing the Misinformation Bill, and 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.480 she's now effectively been canceled. She told The Herald's son 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.760 that the fallout was everything you could imagine. I probably 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.119 no longer have a music career in the way that 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.760 I knew it. I've lost some friends, though I hope 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:58.280 that's temporary. I've lost some of the infrastructure of my business, publicity, 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:03.679 band members, room members, a show, my album launch revenue, 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.200 and quite a few followers. You know, Gary, this wouldn't 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:12.040 happen if you put on a Waltz Harris hat. Apart 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:15.120 from looking like a loser, you wouldn't get this kind 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:15.720 of response. 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:22.359 I got three Make America Great hats at home, and 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:24.359 I was thinking about wearing them out, but I've been 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.000 warned that maybe I might not get good service or 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:29.680 someone wants to shout me at coffee. And by the way, 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:31.879 I think that Donald Trump will be a revelation that 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:35.320 will reshape the world for good. And I'm really excited 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:37.800 about what's to come. The announcements he's made today. The 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:41.200 way people are dissing Pete Hexseth as the new Defense 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:44.680 Secretary's got me where this bloke actually cares about veterans, 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:48.439 loves his country. I think he's a fantastic, from the 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.680 troops up kind of Defense secretary, and he's not part 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:54.800 of the Washington swamp. We need people like that in Australia, 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.239 and somebody said to me before we see today, the 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.840 only person they can think of that would stare down 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.879 wasting government like Elon Musk has challenged to do and 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:08.320 Ramaswami would be Gina Reinhart. You think Peter Dunn't got 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:09.800 offer the gig? I don't think so. 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:14.480 Gary Darren, thank you so much for your time. All right, 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:17.720 let's move on, shall we? Cop twenty nine? The big 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:21.080 climate conflab in Azerbaijan seems to be going well because 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:25.760 China has demanded that developed countries, including Australia, cough up 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:29.680 one point eight trillion dollars a year to help out 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:33.600 developing nations with climate change. And the best bit, China 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:36.080 wouldn't have to contribute a cent because it is still 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:39.840 considered a developing country. So we and the UK and 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:42.760 the US, et cetera, would have to pay China, one 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.919 of the biggest economies in the world, to fix the 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:51.080 global temperature NPMP and former Speaker Andrew Wallace joins me, 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:53.480 Now you know I actually have to kind of hand 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:58.000 it to jijingping here with this idea that we would 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:01.160 be giving money to them. I'm sorry, I think we've 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:03.520 just lost Andrew there, We'll go to a quick break 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:11.480 and come back. Don't go away. My apologies for that 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:14.400 brief interruption. It would see Andrew Wallace has lost power. 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.320 I believe he's on the phone to Blackout Bowen right now, 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:18.879 trying to sort that out so we can get him 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:21.879 back later. Now it sounds like racing cars might be 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:25.640 saved for a little while longer. Willowbank Raceway near Brisbane 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:28.920 has banned electric vehicles from the track because it says 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:31.000 they're too dangerous to compete. 0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:31.200 Now. 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:33.520 This has happened at racetracks in the US and the 0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:37.040 UK too. Willowbank Raceway said one of the big problems 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:40.879 with evs was that batteries released toxic and flammable gas 0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:43.720 after a collision, and there was no guarantee that a 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:47.199 car could be completely off after a crash, so the 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:50.520 chassis could essentially be electrified and kill medics if they 0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:53.119 were trying to pull a driver from a car. To 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:55.840 discuss this further, I'm joined by the founder of car 0:23:55.840 --> 0:24:01.119 expert dot com, Paul Marrick. Paul lad to see it happening, 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:03.560 because I mean, hell, imagine going along to a racetrack 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:06.760 and watching an electric vehicle go down a drag strip 0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:09.119 or something. I don't think it would have quite the 0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:12.880 same effect, but it does raise questions that should then 0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:15.439 be applied to the road, I think. I mean, if 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:19.160 they're concerned that on a racetrack they can't ensure that 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:22.280 the car is not live after a crash and that 0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:27.320 it could potentially harm or electrocute first responders, that would 0:24:27.359 --> 0:24:30.760 presumably be the same on the road too. Yeah. 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:32.840 Absolutely, And what we're seeing as well is a lot 0:24:32.840 --> 0:24:36.520 of apartments, apartment building owners and body corporates are actually 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:39.639 banning the installation of electric vehicle charges. A lot of 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:42.920 this has stemmed as well from e scooters and other 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:46.960 sort of lithium powered devices catching fire and hurting people. 0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:49.679 And it's the same story here at racetracks. They just 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:51.360 don't know how to deal with these things, and as 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:54.440 a result of that, insurance costs are going through the 0:24:54.520 --> 0:24:56.280 roof and it's forcing a lot of these racetracks a 0:24:56.400 --> 0:24:58.679 just banned electric vehicles entiring. 0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:04.000 I can't imagine how you could potentially have electric race cars. 0:25:04.040 --> 0:25:07.240 I mean, I know they go fast, but surely a 0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:11.760 large part of what attracts people to a racetrack and 0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:14.360 to cars in general is the noise that they make. 0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:14.760 Now. 0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:16.520 I know they'll say I will put a computer in 0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:19.000 it that makes a noise through a speaker or something, 0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:22.160 But to me, it's just not the same. It can't 0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:25.840 be the same. People wouldn't want to watch I wouldn't 0:25:25.840 --> 0:25:31.040 think electric cars going silently around Bathurst, would they? Yeah? 0:25:31.040 --> 0:25:33.280 Look, I mean it'd be a safe environment for babies, 0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:35.280 you'd be able to sleep, not not having to worry 0:25:35.320 --> 0:25:38.520 too much about that, But definitely for petrol head you've 0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:40.280 got to have noise. I mean, it is just not 0:25:40.359 --> 0:25:42.640 the same to have these things as quiet as they are. 0:25:43.000 --> 0:25:45.280 There was actually a video released yesterday on the Internet 0:25:45.320 --> 0:25:49.480 of Geomi, which is a smartphone manufacturer that's now got 0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:52.520 into making cars. One of their cars had a major 0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:56.600 break failure on a racetrack and had this catastrophic crash. 0:25:56.800 --> 0:25:59.080 And to me, it's just one of these things that 0:25:59.280 --> 0:26:02.280 just baffles logic. If you can't hear it, it's not exciting. 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:04.360 It should be putting yourself at risk. 0:26:04.720 --> 0:26:07.159 I'm sure the great Paul Murray, who is back in 0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:09.040 the Man Cave tonight, by the way, would have some 0:26:09.080 --> 0:26:12.760 thoughts about that. Some other driving news, a controversial reporter 0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:16.919 suggested that Australians aged over fifty should be subjected to 0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:20.960 mandatory driving lessons. This is a study from the University 0:26:21.000 --> 0:26:24.040 of New South Wales in Sydney. It suggests that drivers 0:26:24.200 --> 0:26:27.359 with or without clean driving records should be re examined 0:26:27.359 --> 0:26:30.080 in order to make the road safer in Australia and 0:26:30.119 --> 0:26:32.640 make sure that their skills are still up to scratch 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:34.240 or what do you think of that for an idea. 0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:37.280 Look, I know it's going to be a little cheap 0:26:37.320 --> 0:26:40.600 coming from me who's just under fifty, but to me, 0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:43.400 it's just like a pilot. If you told me that 0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:45.639 the pilot at the front of the plane last died 0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:49.679 his pilot's test fifteen twenty thirty years ago, I go, 0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:51.359 I don't think I want to be on this plane. 0:26:51.400 --> 0:26:54.240 And I think for all drivers, let alone people over fifty, 0:26:54.440 --> 0:26:57.280 you really should be getting reassessed more regularly because it 0:26:57.359 --> 0:27:00.439 is one of these things. Road rules change constantly, and 0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:01.720 you want to be on top of it. You want 0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:03.280 to know what's going on. And I think it's only 0:27:03.320 --> 0:27:05.880 fair that we are having more and more regular testing, 0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:08.800 especially for older Australians who may have first got their 0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:10.440 licenses decades ago. 0:27:10.840 --> 0:27:13.359 Yeah, I agree. I don't think it particularly matters about 0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:16.119 age either. To be perfectly honest, if it was a 0:27:16.200 --> 0:27:18.600 rule that you had to have another assessment every ten 0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:21.240 years when you renew your license or something, I think 0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:24.520 that would be perfectly reasonable, because you know, you do 0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:27.320 tend to get stuck in your habits and forget a 0:27:27.359 --> 0:27:30.000 few rules and whatever, and surely you want everyone to 0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:32.440 be as safe as possible on the road. Paul, thank 0:27:32.480 --> 0:27:34.800 you for coming on the program. Now back to where 0:27:34.840 --> 0:27:38.240 I was before we had the power outage, COP twenty nine. 0:27:38.320 --> 0:27:42.360 The big climate conflict going on in Azerbaijan is going well, 0:27:42.400 --> 0:27:47.040 apparently because China has demanded that developed countries, including Australia, 0:27:47.080 --> 0:27:50.600 cough up one point eight trillion dollars a year to 0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:53.600 help out developing nations with climate change. And of course 0:27:53.720 --> 0:27:57.280 China wouldn't have to contribute a cent because it's still 0:27:57.320 --> 0:28:01.920 considered a quote unquote developing country, So we, the UK, 0:28:02.240 --> 0:28:05.200 the US, et cetera, would have to pay China, one 0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:08.359 of the biggest economies in the world, to apparently fix 0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:13.080 the global temperature LNPMP, and former Speaker Andrew Wallace joins me, 0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:15.200 Now you've made it out of the power outage. 0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:20.000 Mate, I have chailed that was very wild and will 0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:21.360 we here, I got to tell you that much. 0:28:21.880 --> 0:28:24.880 Good. Now, I've actually got to give Jijiping a little 0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:27.840 bit of credit here because I think he's just gently 0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:30.800 needling the Western world about the way that they are 0:28:30.840 --> 0:28:34.120 carrying on about climate change, saying, you know, why don't 0:28:34.119 --> 0:28:36.119 you put your money where your mouth is. You've got 0:28:36.160 --> 0:28:38.760 to pay us, you know, one of the biggest emitters 0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:41.440 in the world if you want climate change to be fixed. 0:28:41.480 --> 0:28:44.200 In a funny way, I think it actually shows up 0:28:44.480 --> 0:28:47.840 how ridiculous a lot of the response to climate change 0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:49.200 at a governmental level is. 0:28:51.920 --> 0:28:58.000 Yeah, Lookail, this is a country that is classifying as developing, 0:28:58.520 --> 0:29:01.880 and yet it has a hundred satellites. 0:29:02.080 --> 0:29:06.120 You're gonna have many satellites Australia owns and operates. Go on, 0:29:06.360 --> 0:29:09.480 I'll tell you none. None. None. 0:29:09.800 --> 0:29:13.440 So we've got a developing country that's so called developing 0:29:13.520 --> 0:29:18.440 country China, that has a very very mature space industry, 0:29:19.320 --> 0:29:23.480 and Australia is regarded as a developed country, and yet 0:29:23.640 --> 0:29:27.680 the federal government continues to rip funding out of the 0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:34.360 space program in Australia such that we have zero zero satellites, So. 0:29:34.320 --> 0:29:34.920 You tell me. 0:29:35.120 --> 0:29:38.760 Can anyone explain to me why we are still having 0:29:38.800 --> 0:29:43.760 to consider China as developing Australia as developed and we 0:29:43.800 --> 0:29:44.360 are having the. 0:29:44.360 --> 0:29:45.719 Fund and prop up. 0:29:46.640 --> 0:29:50.280 It just makes no seeds, Absolutely, it makes no sense. 0:29:50.640 --> 0:29:52.520 That's ridiculous. So you may as well call it a 0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:55.400 coal rebate because of coause we sell our coal to 0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:57.400 China because we can't burn it here that it'd be 0:29:57.400 --> 0:29:59.400 bad for the world. But it's okay if China burns 0:29:59.400 --> 0:30:01.160 it so they can give us the money for the 0:30:01.200 --> 0:30:03.480 coal and then we can give it back to them 0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:07.000 in some sort of climate subsidy. Great idea. Now, labor 0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:10.040 social media legislation. It's probably one of the only bills 0:30:10.080 --> 0:30:13.160 that will be passed between now and Christmas. The opposition 0:30:13.240 --> 0:30:16.200 has a course back to ban for under sixteens, and 0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:18.160 on the face of it, you know, I'd have to 0:30:18.160 --> 0:30:21.240 say it's hard to oppose. Who isn't sympathetic to the 0:30:21.280 --> 0:30:23.880 idea that kids shouldn't be on social media. We know 0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:26.479 the harms, but I feel like this has been rushed. 0:30:26.480 --> 0:30:29.920 There's no clear idea of how it will work. The 0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:34.120 planned trial hasn't even happened yet. You've got serious concerns 0:30:34.160 --> 0:30:38.600 that have emerged out of Senate estimates about how verification 0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:43.160 systems would work. I think we're all sympathetic to the idea. 0:30:43.680 --> 0:30:45.800 I'm just not sure the government has gone about it 0:30:45.840 --> 0:30:48.400 the right way. 0:30:49.520 --> 0:30:52.520 Well, Caleb, I don't think the government has gone about 0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:53.160 it the right way. 0:30:53.320 --> 0:30:54.480 On that, I agree. 0:30:54.160 --> 0:30:57.720 With you, But I am a big supporter of increasing 0:30:57.720 --> 0:30:58.840 the age to sixteen. 0:30:58.960 --> 0:31:00.640 In fact, I was. 0:31:00.560 --> 0:31:04.240 Pushing for this from as early as twenty twenty one, 0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:08.240 so I've been working in this space for a long time. 0:31:08.840 --> 0:31:12.720 I think it's really important that people understand the dangers 0:31:12.720 --> 0:31:14.520 and perils that we're seeing. 0:31:14.560 --> 0:31:18.200 On social media now, particularly for young people under. 0:31:18.040 --> 0:31:18.960 The age of sixteen. 0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:21.400 Young people just simply don't have the maturity to be 0:31:21.400 --> 0:31:23.440 able to be dealing with the sort of pressures that 0:31:23.480 --> 0:31:26.520 they are that's being brought to bear on them. We 0:31:26.560 --> 0:31:30.600 saw the Primary School Principles coming out today supporting the 0:31:31.520 --> 0:31:35.320 increase in age to sixteen. But the reality, Caleb, is 0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:39.680 that the Prime Minister has been dragged, kicking and screaming 0:31:39.720 --> 0:31:43.640 on this. Twelve months ago, Peter Dutton and David Polman 0:31:43.920 --> 0:31:47.960 moved a Private members bill calling for an age verification 0:31:48.200 --> 0:31:52.880 trial and the Prime Minister rejected that, Labor rejected that. 0:31:53.480 --> 0:31:58.800 Now six months ago, Peter again, Peter Dutton again tried 0:31:58.840 --> 0:32:04.320 to push through a bill which would see and in 0:32:04.360 --> 0:32:08.480 fact Peter Dutton committed in his first one hundred days 0:32:08.600 --> 0:32:12.440 to ensuring that age sixteen for social media. 0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:15.480 Now I've just finished, or just about to wrap up 0:32:16.000 --> 0:32:19.080 in the next couple of months, a social media requiry. 0:32:19.640 --> 0:32:23.720 I've listened to the testimony of parents talking about some 0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:26.280 of their kids who have taken their own lives because 0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:27.360 of this bullying. 0:32:27.560 --> 0:32:30.360 And we're talking about very, very young children. 0:32:30.680 --> 0:32:33.520 You know, the way the Privacy Act in the US 0:32:34.080 --> 0:32:37.440 is worded is that and that's the only reason why 0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:41.440 these platforms is US platforms have an age of thirteen. 0:32:41.920 --> 0:32:45.360 Is the US Privacy Act sets that age. 0:32:45.080 --> 0:32:48.400 But we know that in Australia and across the world, 0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:54.760 many parents are basically assisting their kids to fraudulently get 0:32:54.800 --> 0:33:00.120 access to social media in much younger than thirteen. And 0:33:00.480 --> 0:33:03.040 it was really heartening to see these principles of the 0:33:03.080 --> 0:33:07.680 private primary school principles coming out and supporting this lifting 0:33:07.720 --> 0:33:11.400 the age to sixteen. But it's only because the parents 0:33:11.920 --> 0:33:16.200 and news corps and the opposition put up such a 0:33:16.200 --> 0:33:19.920 state that the Prime Minister finally relented. He has been 0:33:20.120 --> 0:33:23.520 utterly weak on this. He's been dragged, kicking and screaming, 0:33:23.840 --> 0:33:25.240 but they haven't. 0:33:25.000 --> 0:33:28.120 Put a lot of thought into it. But ultimately it. 0:33:28.080 --> 0:33:32.080 Will be the platforms that will have to be satisfied 0:33:32.120 --> 0:33:35.520 that someone is sixteen. What we're really concerned about in 0:33:35.560 --> 0:33:39.280 the opposition is these exemptions that Michelle Roland is now 0:33:39.320 --> 0:33:44.040 talking about. We don't think these exemptions should apply. We 0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:48.160 don't think that the social media platforms have demonstrated any 0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:52.640 social license whatsoever. They've really demonstrated that the kids are 0:33:52.720 --> 0:33:57.520 nothing more than an opportunity to raise money for them. 0:33:57.080 --> 0:33:59.400 Andrew, I'm sorry we've got to move on, but to 0:33:59.480 --> 0:34:01.800 good luck those storms up there. I hope you don't 0:34:01.800 --> 0:34:04.560 get blown away. Let's bring in now Peter Wertheim, the 0:34:04.600 --> 0:34:08.960 co CEO of the Executive Council of Australian Jury. Now 0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:12.000 you're arguing this watered down hate speech bill from the 0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:15.240 federal government, which of course was a long time coming, 0:34:15.320 --> 0:34:18.319 doesn't go far enough. You say that the wording of 0:34:18.360 --> 0:34:23.120 the proposed legislation doesn't include enough forms of hate speech. 0:34:23.640 --> 0:34:26.160 Explain what is your issue with the current state of 0:34:26.160 --> 0:34:26.760 the legislation. 0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:33.200 Well, I take myardstick or starting point with some of 0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:36.960 the events that have occurred in recent times. Cast your 0:34:36.960 --> 0:34:40.720 mind back to last year October the ninth, twenty twenty 0:34:40.760 --> 0:34:45.600 twenty three, when we had a major demonstration at the 0:34:45.600 --> 0:34:50.840 fore court of the Opera House. The rhetoric was violent, 0:34:51.960 --> 0:34:57.680 the behavior was menacing and intimidating. In keeping with that rhetoric, 0:34:58.680 --> 0:35:02.520 I would have thought that, judging by the reaction to it, 0:35:03.440 --> 0:35:06.160 including on Sky News which did a big exposie of 0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:10.960 that whole incident, people would have expected that that kind 0:35:11.000 --> 0:35:13.520 of conduct would already be against the law and should 0:35:13.520 --> 0:35:18.920 have been prosecuted. And yet there was no prosecution. There 0:35:18.920 --> 0:35:22.080 was no legal action taken in relation to it at all. 0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:26.399 So I guess our starting point has to be do 0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:31.480 we believe that behavior in that category should be prosecutable? 0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:35.759 And if the answer is yes, then we have to 0:35:35.880 --> 0:35:42.239 gauge any potential legislation against that sort of behavior and 0:35:42.280 --> 0:35:46.960 see whether it would be prosecutable under that legislation. And 0:35:47.080 --> 0:35:50.719 the current bill does not have a provision in there 0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:54.520 which would enable a prosecution of that sort of behavior 0:35:54.520 --> 0:35:54.920 to occur. 0:35:56.239 --> 0:35:59.719 So at the moment, the bill is basically suggesting that 0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:04.279 any that is a direct incitement to violence you are 0:36:04.320 --> 0:36:08.000 suggesting someone should do something would be considered hate speech, 0:36:08.040 --> 0:36:12.280 but perhaps a more indirect version of incitement to violence 0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:14.200 would not be included. Is that correct? 0:36:16.120 --> 0:36:19.440 I think that's the way it's advertised, But difficultly with 0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:22.640 a sort of legislation Caleb, is that it's not always 0:36:23.160 --> 0:36:28.920 as advertised. The use of the word incitement has a 0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:34.320 particular meaning in common parlance. Most people would have thought 0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:36.760 that the behavior we saw at the opera House Forecourt 0:36:37.239 --> 0:36:42.439 would have fallen within the meaning of incitement, and yet 0:36:42.440 --> 0:36:46.680 the legal meaning is much narrower and much more constricted. 0:36:48.160 --> 0:36:50.840 It's quite technical. I can get into the weeds of 0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:56.080 it if you like, but it doesn't necessarily correlate to 0:36:56.160 --> 0:37:00.640 the way most people use the word incitement in common parlance. 0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:06.279 And so for that reason, when you use the word 0:37:06.360 --> 0:37:10.120 incitement as the test for whether it's incitement to violence 0:37:10.200 --> 0:37:13.600 or even incitement to hatred in the criminal context, where 0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:19.560 you have to prove intention to incite beyond reasonable doubt, 0:37:19.680 --> 0:37:22.400 you're setting a very high bar, and a bar which 0:37:22.719 --> 0:37:27.680 most prosecutors find impossible to overcome. And that's the reason 0:37:27.760 --> 0:37:33.120 why the sorts of behaviors that we've been discussing have 0:37:33.280 --> 0:37:35.120 gone unpunished. 0:37:35.800 --> 0:37:37.960 Somehow, I suspect this might go the same way as 0:37:38.040 --> 0:37:41.440 the religious discrimination bill. No one seems to be happy 0:37:41.440 --> 0:37:43.319 with it. Peter, thank you so much for your time. 0:37:43.760 --> 0:37:46.200 Coming up after the break, Elon Musk has scored a 0:37:46.280 --> 0:37:49.440 huge gig in the Trump administration. What this means for 0:37:49.480 --> 0:37:53.240 the United States and Australia with former Defense intelligence analyst 0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:56.880 Paul Munt later, but first, the boat smuggling debarcle is 0:37:56.920 --> 0:37:59.640 about to rear its ugly head again after another load 0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:01.760 of foreign and has found their way onto our shores. 0:38:01.960 --> 0:38:04.919 My political panel Daniel Molino and Keith Pitt join me next. 0:38:08.320 --> 0:38:10.680 Plenty more headlines to get across. Joining me in that 0:38:10.920 --> 0:38:14.920 endeavor Labor MP Daniel Molino and Nationals MP Keith Pitt. 0:38:15.000 --> 0:38:19.359 Now four foreign nationals washed ashore on Croker Island, which 0:38:19.360 --> 0:38:22.800 is northeast of Darwin on Sunday night. The Northern Land 0:38:22.920 --> 0:38:26.400 Council confirmed this yesterday. They said the men were found 0:38:26.400 --> 0:38:29.359 by some local Aboriginal people. We don't know where they 0:38:29.400 --> 0:38:34.320 came from, only that they are no longer in Australia. Daniel, 0:38:34.400 --> 0:38:37.560 does this not just prove that our efforts to stop 0:38:37.640 --> 0:38:40.080 boats coming ashore simply isn't working. 0:38:42.320 --> 0:38:44.960 Well, thanks for having me on, Caleb, No, it doesn't 0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:47.920 show that. The first thing I'd say is that the 0:38:48.280 --> 0:38:52.279 current government, as with the previous government, doesn't confirm or 0:38:52.280 --> 0:38:54.879 comment on the details of operational matters, and that's been 0:38:54.920 --> 0:38:57.600 our stance for a long time. The second thing is 0:38:57.640 --> 0:39:01.120 that even under the previous government, which had the Operation 0:39:01.239 --> 0:39:05.920 Sovereign Boarder's Framework, which has continued, voter rivals occurred. For example, 0:39:05.960 --> 0:39:10.000 there was one in twenty eighteen in Danetree, so voter 0:39:10.160 --> 0:39:14.320 rivals occurred under the previous government. Also, the main point 0:39:14.440 --> 0:39:18.040 is that the policy framework has continued across and there 0:39:18.120 --> 0:39:21.200 is no way under the current framework that people arriving 0:39:21.719 --> 0:39:24.480 in Australia in that manner will be able to stay. 0:39:24.960 --> 0:39:27.560 And that's something which continues under this government and that's 0:39:27.560 --> 0:39:29.880 why this arrangement will continue to work. 0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:30.760 Keith. 0:39:30.800 --> 0:39:35.600 Your response to that, well, for those playing long at home, 0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:37.920 if you're counting Hanny illegal arrivals, there are. In terms 0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:40.000 of boats, you've run out of fingers and toes. It's 0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:44.080 twenty three and before the last election we had the 0:39:44.120 --> 0:39:47.600 albans as anything alban Easi's leader. The opposition say that 0:39:47.640 --> 0:39:50.080 nothing would change, there won't be any difference, it will 0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:52.640 all be the same. And yet we've seen that this 0:39:52.719 --> 0:39:56.040 has been switched on again by people smugglers. You can't 0:39:56.040 --> 0:39:59.439 get away from facts twenty three illegal arrivals in terms 0:39:59.480 --> 0:40:01.799 of votes and in terms of ones when they get 0:40:01.800 --> 0:40:04.080 here all Unfortunately, when it was minus the Giles, they 0:40:04.120 --> 0:40:07.400 get let out. This is an ongoing problem. We know 0:40:07.480 --> 0:40:09.879 what happened last time. No one wants to see death 0:40:09.960 --> 0:40:13.200 at sea. And yet in terms of funding and everything 0:40:13.200 --> 0:40:16.839 else that's needed to make border force successful, we see 0:40:16.880 --> 0:40:20.040 money pouring into things like as you said earlier, China, 0:40:20.160 --> 0:40:22.880 they wanted trillion dollars now for climate and don't forget 0:40:23.040 --> 0:40:25.640 that this government signed up to that. They've signed up 0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:27.600 to it expecting it to be in the billions and 0:40:27.600 --> 0:40:28.600 now it's in the trillions. 0:40:29.880 --> 0:40:32.000 I think at the very least we should give a 0:40:32.040 --> 0:40:34.520 big hooray to with the indigenous people up north. I 0:40:34.520 --> 0:40:36.839 think this is at least the second occasion where they've 0:40:36.880 --> 0:40:39.719 been the waist to find out that these people have 0:40:40.080 --> 0:40:43.080 come ashore. Now, in other news, the Albanezy government has 0:40:43.120 --> 0:40:46.440 set up a National Productivity Fund, which means the states 0:40:46.440 --> 0:40:49.640 and territories will have to compete for money for plans 0:40:49.680 --> 0:40:53.080 to boost productivity growth. Nine hundred million dollars is up 0:40:53.120 --> 0:40:56.640 for grabs for things like planning and zoning reform. Here's 0:40:56.680 --> 0:40:57.960 the treasure of Jim Charmers. 0:40:59.080 --> 0:41:02.160 We're not seeking productivity growth at the cost of higher 0:41:02.200 --> 0:41:06.480 unemployment or by insisting Australians work longer for less. We're 0:41:06.480 --> 0:41:10.399 trying to apply a new thinking to the challenge by 0:41:10.400 --> 0:41:14.400 broadening our ambitions beyond the tired old slogans on debates 0:41:15.120 --> 0:41:17.400 central to industrial relations. 0:41:18.600 --> 0:41:21.440 Daniel, one of the biggest problems we're facing as a 0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:25.880 country right now is slow productivity growth. A lot of 0:41:25.880 --> 0:41:30.480 what you see in terms of employment increasing employment is 0:41:30.520 --> 0:41:34.040 in the care sector, which happens to be largely funded 0:41:34.080 --> 0:41:37.520 by the federal government through the Ndis Is this nine 0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:40.240 hundred million dollars actually going to change anything? 0:41:41.239 --> 0:41:44.480 So the first thing I'd say is that look, productivity 0:41:44.480 --> 0:41:47.920 growth has become harder right around the world in advanced economies. 0:41:48.000 --> 0:41:50.320 And I think there's a Martin Wolf article in the 0:41:50.360 --> 0:41:52.520 Financial Times today which goes to the heart of this, 0:41:52.560 --> 0:41:55.680 which is the productivity growth in the services sector is 0:41:56.120 --> 0:41:59.759 harder to achieve than in manufacturing and agriculture, and that's 0:41:59.760 --> 0:42:02.920 something we've seen over decades, so it's not a surprise 0:42:03.000 --> 0:42:06.680 that that's something we're seeing here. The second point is 0:42:06.719 --> 0:42:08.800 I think these payments could make a huge difference and 0:42:08.800 --> 0:42:12.400 they're really worth exploring. When you go back to the 0:42:12.440 --> 0:42:15.520 Fred Hillmer reforms in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties, 0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:18.480 when you look at the report that Ian harbohanded down 0:42:18.480 --> 0:42:21.719 to the previous government on competition, incentive payments to the 0:42:21.760 --> 0:42:23.280 states were central. 0:42:23.239 --> 0:42:24.640 To both of those approaches. 0:42:24.880 --> 0:42:26.799 This is something which I think we can probably get 0:42:26.800 --> 0:42:30.239 bipartisan support on. It's important for two reasons. Firstly, it 0:42:30.320 --> 0:42:34.239 incentivizes states, and secondly, it recognizes the fact that a 0:42:34.280 --> 0:42:37.440 lot of the hard lifting in terms of policy change 0:42:37.480 --> 0:42:39.520 that's required is going to have to be undertaken by 0:42:39.560 --> 0:42:42.520 state governments. And yet a lot of the increases in 0:42:42.600 --> 0:42:44.920 revenue through income tax and corporate tax will go to 0:42:44.920 --> 0:42:47.600 the Commonwealth government. So it's only fair that the Komonwealth 0:42:47.640 --> 0:42:50.600 government should pass on some of that benefit. So I 0:42:50.600 --> 0:42:53.080 think this is very sensible and I think it will 0:42:53.080 --> 0:42:54.160 help well if. 0:42:54.040 --> 0:42:55.960 We want to have that discussion about money going to 0:42:56.000 --> 0:42:58.279 the Commonwealth government. We could always go back to the 0:42:58.320 --> 0:43:01.000 pre war set up where the state had control of 0:43:01.040 --> 0:43:04.399 income tax. For that to discussion for another day. But Keith, 0:43:04.520 --> 0:43:08.759 I don't quite understand why we the taxpayer need to 0:43:08.880 --> 0:43:12.240 pay the states to reform things like their planning systems. 0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:14.360 Shouldn't they just be doing that anyway. 0:43:16.600 --> 0:43:18.759 Well, no matter what the question is, Labour's answer is 0:43:18.800 --> 0:43:21.640 always spend more taxpayers money. And I can tell you 0:43:21.719 --> 0:43:24.440 where productivity can be improved, and that is in policy 0:43:24.480 --> 0:43:28.319 settings from the cabinet of the Australian government. You don't 0:43:28.400 --> 0:43:30.360 need to spend enormous amounts of money to fix this. 0:43:30.840 --> 0:43:33.320 You need to stop doing things like sending our industrial 0:43:33.360 --> 0:43:36.800 relations programs back to the nineteen seventies. We've got interest 0:43:36.880 --> 0:43:39.799 rates which have had twelve increases, We've got electricity and 0:43:39.840 --> 0:43:43.600 gas costs out of control. It makes people uncompetitive. The 0:43:43.680 --> 0:43:47.360 fundamentals of business don't change. For them to be successful, 0:43:47.440 --> 0:43:50.200 they have to be competitive internationally if they're looking to export. 0:43:50.800 --> 0:43:52.880 And we have a government that is hell bent on 0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:56.520 giving the unions everything that they want, spending more taxpayer money, 0:43:56.520 --> 0:43:59.440 which is driving up inflation. And the RBA and themselves 0:43:59.440 --> 0:44:01.520 have said this is an issue and yet here we 0:44:01.560 --> 0:44:03.759 go as another nine hundred million for the states who 0:44:03.840 --> 0:44:04.279 have thought it. 0:44:04.719 --> 0:44:06.760 Now, the PM doesn't seem to think it's worth catching 0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:09.759 up with Donald Trump before he becomes the US president again. 0:44:09.920 --> 0:44:13.239 Albaneze hask not back the suggestion from the opposition that 0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:15.480 he had to stop in Florida to see Trump on 0:44:15.520 --> 0:44:18.440 his way to the APEC leaders meetings in Rio de 0:44:18.600 --> 0:44:22.560 Janeiro this week. Daniel ort he, you know, I know 0:44:22.600 --> 0:44:25.000 he's had a phone call, but aught he actually have 0:44:25.160 --> 0:44:27.239 a face to face discussion. I don't think there'd be 0:44:27.280 --> 0:44:28.319 any harm in it, would there. 0:44:29.280 --> 0:44:31.120 Well, look, I think it's interesting that some of the 0:44:31.160 --> 0:44:33.440 people calling for this have also been the same people 0:44:33.440 --> 0:44:36.480 who roundly criticized the PM for traveling too much. So 0:44:36.520 --> 0:44:40.960 there's a bit of interest there that brazenly self promoting here. 0:44:41.000 --> 0:44:43.239 I'm just in the process of finishing up a book 0:44:43.280 --> 0:44:46.600 on PM president relations back to Federation, and I've actually 0:44:46.600 --> 0:44:51.440 interviewed all former pms on their relations with presidents, including 0:44:51.480 --> 0:44:52.920 Turnbull and Morrison's relations. 0:44:52.920 --> 0:44:55.480 We've got too much farming heads and my. 0:44:57.000 --> 0:44:59.320 Lessons from that are that I think the way to 0:44:59.360 --> 0:45:01.560 succeed with Trump is going to be firstly to show 0:45:01.640 --> 0:45:03.399 him on each of the issues that comes up. What's 0:45:03.440 --> 0:45:06.239 in it for the US, secondly to be straightforward and 0:45:06.239 --> 0:45:08.719 thirdly to build trust. And so I think that's the 0:45:08.760 --> 0:45:11.320 approach we need to take as issues come up. I 0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:14.080 think we need to approach it in that way, and 0:45:14.120 --> 0:45:16.280 I think we'll do very well. He's very open minded 0:45:16.320 --> 0:45:18.200 to dealing with Australia in a positive way. 0:45:18.239 --> 0:45:22.000 I believe, gents, we're only got ten seconds before the break, Keith. 0:45:22.000 --> 0:45:22.720 Should he meet. 0:45:22.600 --> 0:45:26.280 Him well as soon as possible. 0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:27.040 We're supportive. 0:45:27.160 --> 0:45:28.920 The best thing Kevin Rudd could do is reach out 0:45:28.920 --> 0:45:30.759 to Jenna Reinhart make a special. 0:45:30.520 --> 0:45:33.959 Enjoying gents, thank you so much for your time. After 0:45:34.000 --> 0:45:36.680 the break, Donald Trump, we're just talking about him. His 0:45:36.840 --> 0:45:40.280 cabinet is starting to take shape after a wave of announcements. 0:45:40.320 --> 0:45:43.239 It includes, of course billionaire buddy Elon Musk and what 0:45:43.280 --> 0:45:46.440 are we going to do about Kevin Rud all of 0:45:46.440 --> 0:45:51.600 that with Paulmnk Right after this, let's go back to 0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:55.200 the United States. Donald Trump has announced that billionaire richest 0:45:55.200 --> 0:45:57.600 man in the world, Elon Musk, and of course former 0:45:57.680 --> 0:46:02.919 GOP presidential candidate Vivic Aswami will have roles in his administration. 0:46:03.320 --> 0:46:07.120 They're going to lead the Department of Government Efficiency, which 0:46:07.160 --> 0:46:12.560 the President elect said will dismantle government bureaucracy, slash excess regulations, 0:46:12.880 --> 0:46:17.720 cut wasteful expenditures, and restructure federal agencies. In other words, 0:46:17.920 --> 0:46:21.799 the Manhattan Project of our time. Let's bring in our 0:46:21.840 --> 0:46:26.000 former defense intelligence analyst Monk Paul. I suspect there are 0:46:26.000 --> 0:46:29.000 a few bureaucrats in the US tonight who might be 0:46:29.120 --> 0:46:32.279 quietly changing their underwear at the thought of what's going 0:46:32.320 --> 0:46:36.279 to happen here. How much would this change the way 0:46:36.360 --> 0:46:38.080 government operates in the US, do you. 0:46:38.080 --> 0:46:42.480 Think, Well, a great deal depends of course, on how 0:46:42.640 --> 0:46:46.640 precisely and efficiently do I say it's carried out. So 0:46:46.840 --> 0:46:51.200 let's be in no doubt that party politics and ideology 0:46:51.239 --> 0:46:54.440 are such a site. The US is running massive deficits, 0:46:54.480 --> 0:46:58.320 and they're not sustainable, and the real thrust of those deficits, 0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:01.800 the real cause of them, is unfunded entitlement. So something 0:47:01.840 --> 0:47:05.160 has to be done. An Elon Musk, in his customary way, 0:47:05.719 --> 0:47:08.600 is such a visionary and an innovator, says let's do 0:47:08.680 --> 0:47:11.520 something about this like we mean it. So I think 0:47:11.560 --> 0:47:14.880 that he's been appointed to this role, is itself a 0:47:14.960 --> 0:47:18.920 very interesting development, But the question of precisely how to 0:47:18.960 --> 0:47:22.960 go about it when he's starting from scratch and doesn't 0:47:23.080 --> 0:47:25.880 himself have a substantial staff to work with to do 0:47:26.239 --> 0:47:29.040 the enormous amount of reviewing that would have to go 0:47:29.080 --> 0:47:31.440 into such a program gives one pause because there are 0:47:31.440 --> 0:47:34.000 a lot of ways to get this wrong. I would 0:47:34.000 --> 0:47:36.759 hope the administration's not intimidated by the scale of the task, 0:47:37.080 --> 0:47:39.239 and that they set about it in a systematic way 0:47:39.320 --> 0:47:40.279 that remains to be seen. 0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:42.440 And if there's anyone who can do it, I think 0:47:42.440 --> 0:47:44.279 it's Elon Musk. I just wish we could have one 0:47:44.280 --> 0:47:46.280 of these here. We've found out today we've spent another 0:47:46.320 --> 0:47:49.839 five billion dollars on more public servants, one person who 0:47:49.880 --> 0:47:52.000 is sort of trying to save his career as well 0:47:52.080 --> 0:47:56.120 under the Trump administration. Of course, our very own Kevin Rudd, 0:47:56.400 --> 0:48:00.160 one of Trump's senior advisors, Dan Scavino Junior, post to 0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:03.520 this on X It's a pretty pointed warning. I would 0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:06.880 have thought to our ambassador to the United States, the 0:48:07.520 --> 0:48:08.560 time is running out. 0:48:12.840 --> 0:48:16.000 Yes, well, in a sense, it would probably be running 0:48:16.000 --> 0:48:21.560 out even without Donald Trump winning the election, because Kevin 0:48:21.680 --> 0:48:25.560 is a labor appointee and we may well have a 0:48:25.600 --> 0:48:29.880 liberal or coalition government by halfway through next year. But 0:48:30.040 --> 0:48:35.040 the reality is that Kevin has a bad habit of 0:48:35.120 --> 0:48:39.680 expressing strong opinions personal opinions out of turn and Kim 0:48:39.719 --> 0:48:43.440 Beasley made a very sage remark at the time when 0:48:43.520 --> 0:48:46.520 Kevin is appointed, saying that that Kevin needs to learn 0:48:46.560 --> 0:48:49.080 the role of an ambassador is not to express opinions, 0:48:49.520 --> 0:48:53.680 it is to cultivate relationships. But I think Kevin can't 0:48:53.719 --> 0:48:56.640 help himself, and the birds or the chickens are coming 0:48:56.640 --> 0:48:59.640 home to roost. It'll be interesting, therefore, to see what 0:48:59.719 --> 0:49:02.880 actually falls out of this in the next couple of months. 0:49:03.160 --> 0:49:06.319 Yeah, we've got fifty seconds left. I've been surprised by 0:49:06.360 --> 0:49:10.239 the reaction of some very learned people who've actually said, 0:49:10.360 --> 0:49:13.240 will there's really nothing much to worry about here, including 0:49:13.280 --> 0:49:18.359 his defenders has been Tony Abbott, which I was surprised by. 0:49:19.880 --> 0:49:26.160 It is interesting. I'm not sure what motivated that. Maybe 0:49:26.200 --> 0:49:30.640 it's an xpm's club, because Turnbull has been defending him 0:49:30.680 --> 0:49:34.319 as well, you know, and Turnbull pointedly and I think 0:49:34.440 --> 0:49:39.160 very correctly, declined to endorse Kevin's desire to become Secretary 0:49:39.160 --> 0:49:42.280 General of the United nations. Heaven knows, the UNS dysfunctional 0:49:42.400 --> 0:49:47.439 enough as it is without having Kevin at the steering wheel. 0:49:49.160 --> 0:49:55.279 So I think it's it's probably fair to say that, 0:49:56.360 --> 0:50:00.880 whatever one's criticisms of him, Kevin is a high intelligent perts. 0:50:00.920 --> 0:50:03.680 And then he's doubtless done some good things while there. 0:50:05.080 --> 0:50:06.560 One of the things, as you know, he's just done, 0:50:06.640 --> 0:50:08.400 is he's published on Sidy and Pinion. 0:50:08.840 --> 0:50:11.640 Yeah, and I'm sorry we've run out of time. He 0:50:11.719 --> 0:50:14.360 is knowledgeable on China, but somehow I suspect this is 0:50:14.400 --> 0:50:16.279 going to be a problem. Thank you for joining me, 0:50:16.360 --> 0:50:18.200 and thank you all at home for joining me. Scherry 0:50:18.239 --> 0:50:21.440 will be back tomorrow night. And he's back. Paul Murray 0:50:21.640 --> 0:50:22.959 is here in the man Cave.