WEBVTT - Sharri | 18 September 0:00:01.520 --> 0:00:05.479 Live on Sky News. This is Sharry. 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:11.360 Good Evening. Welcome to the program tonight. The sophisticated operation 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:15.680 that targeted terrorists. Why experts around the world have been 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:19.880 flawed by the pager attack that in a moment. Also tonight, 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:22.840 Testin Russell will be live on the show as he 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:27.000 tears the ABC to pieces. There are now fresh revelations 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:31.680 over journalistic misconduct at the public broadcaster. Their war crime 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:35.440 reporting is such a disaster that now the Minister is 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:40.160 demanding answers. Plus, Penny Wong embarrasses Australia on the world 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:45.440 stage refusing to rule out supporting a pro hamas un motion. 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.320 Dave Sharma, Bridget Mackenzie and Michael Danby will join me 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:53.600 to discuss. But first, this is the work of a 0:00:53.720 --> 0:01:01.240 genius intelligence operation targeting terrorists directly by detonating their personal pages. 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:06.520 It doesn't get more sophisticated and surprising than this. And 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:11.240 here's how it unfolded. Hesbela terrorists were using low tech 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:15.960 pages to evade Israelis tracking their location, and their pages 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:20.000 detonated at around three point thirty in the afternoon local time. 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.080 The terrorists opened a message on their pager that said 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:31.840 from Hesbela HQ and then their devices exploded. Here's one 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:37.000 Hesbela fighter opening his device at a be Route supermarket. 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.800 The explosions from the detonations weren't large. You can see 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.560 this that it was only the person who was holding 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.960 it who was affected. Now have a look at this 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:53.400 next vision in a supermarket, a grocery store. Again it 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:57.520 was very targeted. The other two men on the right 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.040 and the left were on a affected. They were able 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.520 to run away. It was only the hes Blood terrorist 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:09.760 who was holding the pager who was taken down. As 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:13.880 a former CIA officer pointed out, this fits with Israel's 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.600 playbook of trying to avoid civilian casualties. 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:22.720 Although Israel has not taken credit for this or responsibility, 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.519 it's likely Israel. The nature of the technology used, the 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:30.160 large number of pagers involved would require an organization with 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:35.320 significant intelligence, significant technical capabilities, and a reason to focus 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:38.639 on Lebanese has Belah, and also a culture in which 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.080 they seek to avoid civilian casualties. And this is a 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:46.520 very surgical tool aimed at killing only the people who 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:48.880 with has Belah. 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:53.120 The terrorists could never have seen this coming. The very 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:57.960 devices they were using to avoid detection were ultimately ticking 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.840 time bombs. One of those injured was the Iranian envoy 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:06.560 in Lebanon, Moshtaba Amani. You have to wonder why the 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.799 Iranian envoy had a Hesbela paja. It shows the link 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:15.880 pretty clearly between the terrorist outfit, which is funded by Iran. 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.720 But there were civilian casualties. Sadly, two girls aged eight 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.919 and ten, along with the son of a Hesbela politician 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:28.079 were killed. Three thousand people were injured, mostly on their 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.400 hands and faces, and we don't quite know how many 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:35.040 were terrorists or civilians. But as we said, this was 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.800 targeted and it looked like just the people holding the devices, 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:44.640 just the terrorists holding the devices were mostly affected. Now 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:48.440 Israel hasn't commented on this operation, but according to reports 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.600 in the New York Times, this was a joint effort 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:56.320 by Mossad and the IDF. The pages were from the 0:03:56.320 --> 0:04:00.880 Gold Apollo company in Taiwan, and it appears that Israel 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:06.600 intercepted the delivery before it arrived in Lebanon. Explosive material 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:10.760 was placed right next to the lithium ion battery. A 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:16.159 detonating switch was also reportedly installed. The pages then increased 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:23.640 in temperature before exploding. This has owed and flawed commentators 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:24.680 around the world. 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.120 I mean, this is just an extraordinary operation. 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.000 I've never seen anything like this, what have. 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:36.280 You, There's never been anything like this. Nobody has ever 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:41.680 supplied the communications devices for an entire organization that was 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:45.000 their opponent and then done what they call a command 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.599 detonation by sending a push message to all of those 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:53.640 devices just simultaneously. They must have been planning for some time. 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.599 Has Bel sources have told CNN that these are pages 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:59.720 that they that they got delivery of, you know, a 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:06.080 non months ago. So it suggests that the Israelis, if 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:09.240 they are behind it, waited till they were confident that 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.200 most of the shipment had been distributed to the key 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:13.880 operational Hesbela people. 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:15.760 Well. 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:20.600 Reut has reported that a Hesbela terrorist speaking anonymously, said 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:25.560 it was its biggest security breach yet. And there's no 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:30.320 question this will now make Hesbela paranoid and create internal division. 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:35.159 It's a point this former NYPD Deputy Commissioner of Intelligence 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.440 and counter Terrorism, John Miller. 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:41.960 Made still sends this important message. And consider the gravity 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:45.000 of this. If you're at the top of Hesbelah, you 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.600 have to say, Okay, the Israelis knew us better than 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:51.120 we thought, better than we thought they did, and our 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:55.040 supply chain, our procurement process. We're a big organization. We 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:57.480 have to consider all of that compromised. What else are 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.839 they into my automatic car starter, the laptop in front 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.880 of me? Do they control an explosive in my phone? 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.040 So their heads have to be spinning. 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:13.920 Exactly. Israeli intelligence is therefore unlimited, but showing how warped. 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:18.600 The United Nations is its special coordinator for Lebanon, condemned 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:22.800 the attack, saying it marked an extremely concerning escalation in 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:27.240 the conflict. That's the un condemning an attack on terrorists, 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.840 a targeted attack. They overlook the fact that Hesbela has 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:35.280 launched more than eight thousand rockets against Israel since October 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:40.039 seventh alone, and there are sixty three thousand people displaced 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:45.240 from northern Israel as a result, sixty three thousand Nettenawho 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:48.599 wants these Israelis to be able to return to their homes. 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.760 As I said, this was a targeted attack and it 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:57.599 acts as a warning yet again that terrorists ultimately can't hide, 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:03.320 they can't escape. Sophisticated Israeli intelligence that will outrun them 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:07.560 every time. This operation also has the added benefit of 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:14.080 taking every HASBELAOD terrorist offline, destroying their communication method Now, 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:18.520 while the United Nations may tomorrow demand an unconditional ceasefire, 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.800 Israel's strategic objective is not just to end the war, 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.760 but to annihilate the terror threat in order to have 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:32.240 lasting peace. And with four hundred Hesbela terrorists killed over 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:36.200 the past year and leading her Mus figures taken out 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.960 as well, it seems like Israel now is on its 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:47.680 way to winning the war on terror. All Right, We've 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:49.800 got a lot coming up in the show. Dave Sharma 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.080 will join me a bit later to speak about that, 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:55.800 as well as Bridget Mackenzie, Michael downby Michael Shubridge. But 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.480 now let's bring in my regular Wednesday panel, former Victorian 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:04.640 Liberal Party president Michael Kroger and labor legend Graham Richardson. 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:09.280 Welcome to you both. Look, this was really a stunning operation. 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:12.680 Michael Kroger, what was your reaction when you woke up 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:14.200 to hear the news of it today? 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:21.160 Well, it was an incredibly successful operation by the Israelis 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:28.440 and it was directed towards military targets in Lebanon and Syria, 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.839 and it worked incredibly successfully. Unlike hes Blah, by the way, 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:37.640 who fire rockets at Willy Nilly civilians or otherwise into 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.160 the northern parts of Israel, I don't care who they kill. 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.240 So as a target operation, this was incredibly successful. They 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.679 said we're going after military targets and that's exactly what 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.360 they did. And the fact that up to three thousand 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:56.680 hes Bala fighters have been injured probably ultimately will curtail 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.880 a lot of their activities. And very clearly the Israelis, 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:05.040 where Nasrolla is the leader of Hesblah, he would know 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.080 that they know where he is and they could take 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.920 him out at any opportunity. So, as you say, this 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:14.160 will probably be a good step towards ending this fight 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.400 between Hesbla and the Israelis. 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.680 Rich O, this will go down as one of the 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.079 legendary intelligence operations. 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:26.240 Don't you think, Oh, this is brilliant. I think that's 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.920 the only word for it, Absolutely brilliant. And it means 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:34.720 that if you're against Israel over there, you are worrying 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.640 every minute of every day, will I be alive tomorrow. 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:42.160 I think that's a good way to have your enemy. 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.400 No question, about it. Look, we're going to return to this. 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.839 We'll have analysis throughout the show because it was the 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:52.320 biggest story around the world today, but more locally in Australia. 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.040 Last night, who's who of the business community gathered for 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:58.240 the BCA and Your Dinner where the Prime Minister claimed 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:02.400 that he is pro business and pro worker but Michael, 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.560 he tiptoed around the union backed IR laws. This is 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.559 the main point of contention. He did admit there were 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:10.960 crucks in the relationship with a business sector. Let's have 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:11.960 a quick look at that. 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:17.720 I am optimistic that government and business can do this together. 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:22.680 We have different responsibilities that demand different approaches, so it 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:27.120 is inevitable we will have occasional differences of opinion. 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.600 Michael, do you think Albanezi is facing to some extent 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.000 a revolt from the business community. 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:38.360 Well, of course he is. The question is whether the 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:42.000 business community can act on that and change votes. I mean, 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.240 the Trading Moon for decades have given money to and 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:49.760 supported the Labor Party elections. The BCA and state based 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:54.080 affiliates and hangers on tend to be neutral during election campaigns, 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.280 which doesn't do their cause any good because the government 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.640 then doesn't their labor government never fear them, so they've 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.520 got to get active, like the mining companies did over 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:05.840 the mining tax. I mean, if you don't fight, you lose. 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.600 The Business Council doesn't fight, so it keeps losing. So 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.559 it has these wonderful dinners and cocktail parties where they 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:16.280 have these meetings. But I'm sorry, Labor politicians take no 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.760 notice of the Business Council of Australia and increasingly so 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:23.240 the Liberal Party politicians don't take much notice of them. 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:27.200 The last public campaign the business community ran will full 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.840 force was to give millions of dollars to the Voice. 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:35.200 Well that was a debacle and a disaster and makes 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.920 them just insipid. So if they get back to fighting 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:42.160 for their members, people will start taking them seriously. And 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.280 the incoming Liberal government, if that's to be the case, 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:45.200 will take them seriously. 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:47.360 And they have shown a bit of fight over the 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.520 past fortnight, and we hear that behind the scenes the 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.200 Prime Minister hasn't been happy about this is communicated some 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:58.960 of that privately, as I understand it, to senior leadership 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.760 in the BCA. But Richard, it's not just the business 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:06.680 community who's complaining here. Your old mate Bill Keilty has 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.000 come out at a private lunch and to say that, well, 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:13.199 the government's not doing enough to lift productivity. What did 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:14.520 you make of his remarks? 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.880 Well, I think when Kelty speaks, you're a mug if 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:23.440 here don't listen. That's the main point here. Kelty is 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.319 wise beyond belief and has. 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:28.400 A stellar record. 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.840 So if I were the government and I heard Kelty 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.720 taking a stance like that, I'd be listening and I'd 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:36.600 be acting upon it. 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:39.680 Would you agree with what he said that there needs 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.440 to be tax reform? He said personal income tax brackets. 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.480 When you add in GSD, he's saying it's over fifty percent, 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.080 it's too high. You put in bracket creep on top 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.440 of that, and even with the tax cuts, people are 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.719 paying more tax than they were two years ago. This 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.920 is what he's saying, there needs to be tax reform. 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:00.280 Well, there does wise. 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.200 You do what we're doing now, you chase your tail, 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:04.440 You just go around in a circle, and. 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.080 That's all we're doing. So something's got to be done 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:07.640 to break that. 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.040 And if we don't break it, then I think all 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:16.120 we're doing is condemning ourselves to committing the same sins. 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.080 I mean, the problem is Michael Kroig, that government spending 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:23.080 just gets bigger and bigger and bigger than ndis, you know, 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:26.160 one of the biggest cost blowouts. So no government is 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.960 going to want to rain in personal income tax. But 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:31.560 I mean it's it's unsustainable, isn't it. 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.800 Absolutely unsustainable? I mean, as I said, the problem with 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.760 Charmers is he's too weak. He's spending one hundred and 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.960 thirty billion dollars more between twenty twenty three and twenty 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.920 twenty six, according to the budget papers, one hundred and 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.280 thirty billion more than he's than he's getting. And so 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.080 when you've got a weak treasurer who cannot resist the 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.400 demands upon him, right, he always wants to spend money. 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.240 And you know, look, you can say, you know there's 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.800 no cause that isn't a good cause for government infrastructure, welfare, health, education, 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:04.520 but you've got to draw the line somewhere. And when 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.199 you've got a weak treasurer who doesn't have an economics background, 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.720 like Jim Chalmers, who's floundering, it's very bad for the government. 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.120 And you know, to be a successful government, you state 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.480 or federal, you've got to have a strong treasurer who 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:20.080 can resist the overtures of your own supports. Charmers can't 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.520 do that, Albanies, you can't do it. The captives of 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:27.320 the sort of the left wing, you know, activists. And 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.240 that's why the Australian economy is in a mess and 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:34.320 it's not going to get any better under Charmers because, 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.160 as most people think, he's spending far too much money, 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.560 and that's why inflation is still just under four percent. 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.600 Yeah, exactly, inflation is. It has come down, but it 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:47.480 is persistent. Rich O, the Prime Minister was clearly hoping 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.320 for a rate cut before he calls the election. This 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:52.440 is what he wanted to announce that he's got the 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.600 cost of living under control. You've had your first rate cut, 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.760 inflations coming down. But now we're seeing reports that actually 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:01.640 the might not even be a rate cut in the 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.040 first quarter of next year. He has to call the 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.680 election in that time period, so it's not looking good 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:08.240 for the PM. 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.640 No, I don't think that there's any good timing ahead 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.000 for Anthony. I think the problem is whenever he goes 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:20.480 there are problems. I think he was looking for a 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.320 sweet spot. It's not going to come. So he's got 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.960 to face that reality. And then then he's got to 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.440 face up to an election that is not going to 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:30.160 be easy to win. 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.120 Look, and even the unions turning against him. We saw 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.720 today that there were thousands of CFMEU members both in 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:42.600 Sydney and Melbourne who again stopped work in protest at 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:46.360 the foster administration of their union. Michael. The union members 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:50.120 have threatened a seventy two hour strike. They say that 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:54.560 this would cripple the construction sector. I mean, this is 0:15:54.880 --> 0:16:00.880 quite extraordinary, these scenes against a labor PM. 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.360 Yeah, they are, and you know they've got a right 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:08.120 to strike. Unfortunately they're striking over the wrong thing. They 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.480 think that, you know, they've got this belief that there's 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:13.960 an attack on wages and conditions. No, it's got nothing 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.400 to do with that, as we all know. But I've 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.920 got to say it's a single minded achievement, Alban. Easy 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.600 to have both business and the unions against you. I 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.640 haven't seen that for a long time. But he's achieved that. 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:26.840 He's got the Jewish community against him, and the mkal 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.600 community against him. He's got the Aboriginal community against him, 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:34.400 and the mining community, gold mining community against him. Boy, 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:40.160 he's getting almost he's almost a Gold Medal status. I 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:44.440 mean for offending everybody. Well, this is what happens if 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.760 you're a weak prime minister like Alboiz and you try 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.800 to please everyone, You've got to compromise your own beliefs, 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.720 which are hard socialist left. I mean, he's a Jeremy Corbyn, 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.800 he's a Bernie Sanders. That doesn't work in Australia. So 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.880 he tries to appease everybody. You've got Wang over there. 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.920 I mean, look, what is the purpose of the Albanzy government. 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.200 That's what people are going to ask himself. Answer, there 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.959 is no purpose. It fell into government after we'd been 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.280 in power for nine years, we had no full term agenda, 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.800 we'd had three prime ministers. Okay, the electorate said hey, 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:15.960 we've had enough of you, time for change. But this 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.199 bloke got into government on false prefaces that he had 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:21.199 a plan to fix everything. Everyone knows not only he 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.399 didn't have any he didn't have a plan. He doesn't 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.800 have any idea what he's doing. And I think, as 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:27.760 I said last night, Jerry, that's why I think Dutton's 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:32.280 probably favorite now to win the election. This guy's polls 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.600 are just getting worse every single day, and I can't 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.400 see what's going to stop them continuing to fall. 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.399 Rich Are You come on this show and you often say, look, 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.399 people like Albo, and I always point out that no 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.240 one I know says they like Albo, But that just 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.400 could be the circles I'm mixed in. But you insist 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.040 that he is a likable bloke and so people are 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.159 going to vote him back in. But the floor in 0:17:56.200 --> 0:18:01.040 that argument is that the voters didn't love Tony Abbott. 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.400 He wasn't in the polls a popular figure. He won 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.119 with a fourteen seat landslide. Do you think there's a 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.880 chance that the Liberals could have a swing coming their 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.560 way of that size? It might not be enough to 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:18.000 get them into government or even into minority government, but 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.080 it could be a big swing. 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.840 Nonetheless, I doubt it, That's all I can say. I 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:29.200 doubt it. I think Anthony is always able. 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:35.040 When an election's on too somehow just zoom up and 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:36.720 the moment maketh the man. 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.680 He just seems to be able to do it every time. 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:42.720 I couldn't do it with the voice, though, could he? 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:44.880 That was another voice? 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:50.040 Hang on the voice an election, It was totally different. 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.080 I always thought the voice was a very weird thing 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:53.959 to be involved in. 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:56.560 And you know I wouldn't want to tell you how 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.480 I voted on it. All I know is that I 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.800 ever happy with it being raised. 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.520 They know how you voted on it because you came 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:07.720 on this show. You said you disagreed with the vice. 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.399 The PM wasn't happy with you, so you changed your 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.840 position and you felt like you had to support the 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:17.000 sake of the labor rubbish. You definitely said you disagreed 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.680 with the vice. You'll shut out on this show, ID 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:21.560 went in doubt. 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.280 Labor politicians should ring you, mate, they should ring you 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.159 when they're in doubt. And that's been the law in 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.400 this country for forty years. Bill Hayden should have listened 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.160 to you in those leadership battles thirty odd years ago. 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.200 And you were right on the Voice. Alba was completely 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:38.159 wrong and Richo nothing has done more damage to the 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.720 Albanesi government than the Voice because he said to the 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:44.920 whole country, this is my major priority. And everyone thought, mate, 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:47.560 if that's your major if that's your major priority, you're 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:49.720 the wrong man to be Prime Minis for this country 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:50.359 at this time. 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.440 There's some truth in that. I'd have to agree. 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.720 I think it was a strange thing to be adopting 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:01.080 as such a big deal. You know, if it's not 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.360 a big deal to the great majority of Australians, it's 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:04.439 not a big deal period. 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:06.120 You're not going to change their mind. 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.000 Well was also the way he went about it, you know, 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:12.359 and and the way he fought the campaign. I mean, 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.719 the polling show that sixty percent of people kind of 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.000 agreed with the idea at the beginning. But when the 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:23.080 Prime Minister started calling people chicken littles and racists, accusing 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:27.399 no supporters of misinformation, he turned anyone who might have 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.280 even been inclined to support it off it, you know, 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:32.959 created a lot of bad will. Just before we go. 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.560 I want to finish on ambulance wait times now. This 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:39.160 is a major issue around the country. We've seen new 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.680 figures today that ambulance wait times in New South Wales 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:47.320 for critically ill patients who need urgent care have blown out. 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:50.520 This story in the Citney Morning Herald. The worst areas 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.960 were the Inner West, Northern Beaches and the Hawkesbury waiting 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.800 longer for help than a year ago. But this is 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:01.120 the same situation in Queensland, Victoria and South Australia. I mean, 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:04.320 my point is, we see we pay more tax than ever. 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.280 Governments are getting involved in all sorts of things that 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:09.960 they probably don't need to get involved in. The most 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:15.280 basic requirement is to deliver healthcare when someone's about to die, 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:17.800 having a heart attack or a stroke or something else 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:23.200 that an ambulance turns up. Gentlemen, why can't governments fulfill 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:29.439 the most basic things? Michael Kroger, Well, it's. 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:33.040 A very good point. And those areas where the ambulances 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:37.840 are free, which is most areas, I understand people are 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:41.240 going to emergency wards, and I don't know that those 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:44.800 stats in the Herald article prove this, but anecdotally, I 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:46.240 tend to think a lot of people are going to 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:50.760 emergency wards so they don't have to pay for, you know, 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:56.440 seeing a general pretitioner where they're not built. So the 0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:58.879 out of pocket expense is I think people are not 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:01.120 paying it and they prefer to get or an emergency ward 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:05.200 at a hospital by an ambulance. That's what I suspect 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:08.680 is happening. Because there are too many examples, these numbers 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.720 have blown out of all proportion with no particular reason. 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:13.920 Rich. 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:16.160 I mean, I think it's something a lot of people 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.520 are worried about that if you need an ambulance urgently 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:22.040 to be there quickly before you could get to a 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:25.640 hospital yourself, that they just won't turn up in time, 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.040 that you'll lose your life. Is that something that you 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:29.280 think is a concerned. 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:32.199 I think that people do think that. I think there 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:34.560 are far too many who think it. I think all 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:35.680 governments have to have. 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:43.120 Another look at healthcare and ambulance times in particular. It's 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.919 expensive to try and fix the problem, but if you 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:52.360 don't fix the problem, it costs actual lives. It has 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:55.920 a terrible effect in the community. So you've just got 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.119 to change your priorities and make sure you do everything 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:01.640 possible to fix agree. 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.320 All right, rich O, Michael Kroger, Great to see both 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:08.119 of you. Now let's return to the biggest story making 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:11.800 headlines around the world today, the surprise attack on HESBLA 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:16.240 where their personal pages were detonated. This was an unprecedented 0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:21.359 operation and joining me now Strategic Analysis Australia Director Michael Schubridge, Michael, 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:24.240 good to see you again. Look waking up to this 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.480 news in Australia today. It has surprised many with its 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:32.600 brilliance in the execution What was your reaction when you 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:34.439 took the time to analyze it. 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:40.840 Well, I was shocked, like you were, Shari, But when 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:45.320 I looked at the nature of it, this is the 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:52.520 most deep and a devastating blow to a terrorist organization's 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:57.200