Speaker 1: Live on Sky News. This is Sharry.
Speaker 2: Good Evening. Welcome to the program tonight. The sophisticated operation
Speaker 2: that targeted terrorists. Why experts around the world have been
Speaker 2: flawed by the pager attack that in a moment. Also tonight,
Speaker 2: Testin Russell will be live on the show as he
Speaker 2: tears the ABC to pieces. There are now fresh revelations
Speaker 2: over journalistic misconduct at the public broadcaster. Their war crime
Speaker 2: reporting is such a disaster that now the Minister is
Speaker 2: demanding answers. Plus, Penny Wong embarrasses Australia on the world
Speaker 2: stage refusing to rule out supporting a pro hamas un motion.
Speaker 2: Dave Sharma, Bridget Mackenzie and Michael Danby will join me
Speaker 2: to discuss. But first, this is the work of a
Speaker 2: genius intelligence operation targeting terrorists directly by detonating their personal pages.
Speaker 2: It doesn't get more sophisticated and surprising than this. And
Speaker 2: here's how it unfolded. Hesbela terrorists were using low tech
Speaker 2: pages to evade Israelis tracking their location, and their pages
Speaker 2: detonated at around three point thirty in the afternoon local time.
Speaker 2: The terrorists opened a message on their pager that said
Speaker 2: from Hesbela HQ and then their devices exploded. Here's one
Speaker 2: Hesbela fighter opening his device at a be Route supermarket.
Speaker 2: The explosions from the detonations weren't large. You can see
Speaker 2: this that it was only the person who was holding
Speaker 2: it who was affected. Now have a look at this
Speaker 2: next vision in a supermarket, a grocery store. Again it
Speaker 2: was very targeted. The other two men on the right
Speaker 2: and the left were on a affected. They were able
Speaker 2: to run away. It was only the hes Blood terrorist
Speaker 2: who was holding the pager who was taken down. As
Speaker 2: a former CIA officer pointed out, this fits with Israel's
Speaker 2: playbook of trying to avoid civilian casualties.
Speaker 3: Although Israel has not taken credit for this or responsibility,
Speaker 3: it's likely Israel. The nature of the technology used, the
Speaker 3: large number of pagers involved would require an organization with
Speaker 3: significant intelligence, significant technical capabilities, and a reason to focus
Speaker 3: on Lebanese has Belah, and also a culture in which
Speaker 3: they seek to avoid civilian casualties. And this is a
Speaker 3: very surgical tool aimed at killing only the people who
Speaker 3: with has Belah.
Speaker 2: The terrorists could never have seen this coming. The very
Speaker 2: devices they were using to avoid detection were ultimately ticking
Speaker 2: time bombs. One of those injured was the Iranian envoy
Speaker 2: in Lebanon, Moshtaba Amani. You have to wonder why the
Speaker 2: Iranian envoy had a Hesbela paja. It shows the link
Speaker 2: pretty clearly between the terrorist outfit, which is funded by Iran.
Speaker 2: But there were civilian casualties. Sadly, two girls aged eight
Speaker 2: and ten, along with the son of a Hesbela politician
Speaker 2: were killed. Three thousand people were injured, mostly on their
Speaker 2: hands and faces, and we don't quite know how many
Speaker 2: were terrorists or civilians. But as we said, this was
Speaker 2: targeted and it looked like just the people holding the devices,
Speaker 2: just the terrorists holding the devices were mostly affected. Now
Speaker 2: Israel hasn't commented on this operation, but according to reports
Speaker 2: in the New York Times, this was a joint effort
Speaker 2: by Mossad and the IDF. The pages were from the
Speaker 2: Gold Apollo company in Taiwan, and it appears that Israel
Speaker 2: intercepted the delivery before it arrived in Lebanon. Explosive material
Speaker 2: was placed right next to the lithium ion battery. A
Speaker 2: detonating switch was also reportedly installed. The pages then increased
Speaker 2: in temperature before exploding. This has owed and flawed commentators
Speaker 2: around the world.
Speaker 4: I mean, this is just an extraordinary operation.
Speaker 2: I've never seen anything like this, what have.
Speaker 5: You, There's never been anything like this. Nobody has ever
Speaker 5: supplied the communications devices for an entire organization that was
Speaker 5: their opponent and then done what they call a command
Speaker 5: detonation by sending a push message to all of those
Speaker 5: devices just simultaneously. They must have been planning for some time.
Speaker 5: Has Bel sources have told CNN that these are pages
Speaker 5: that they that they got delivery of, you know, a
Speaker 5: non months ago. So it suggests that the Israelis, if
Speaker 5: they are behind it, waited till they were confident that
Speaker 5: most of the shipment had been distributed to the key
Speaker 5: operational Hesbela people.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 2: Reut has reported that a Hesbela terrorist speaking anonymously, said
Speaker 2: it was its biggest security breach yet. And there's no
Speaker 2: question this will now make Hesbela paranoid and create internal division.
Speaker 2: It's a point this former NYPD Deputy Commissioner of Intelligence
Speaker 2: and counter Terrorism, John Miller.
Speaker 5: Made still sends this important message. And consider the gravity
Speaker 5: of this. If you're at the top of Hesbelah, you
Speaker 5: have to say, Okay, the Israelis knew us better than
Speaker 5: we thought, better than we thought they did, and our
Speaker 5: supply chain, our procurement process. We're a big organization. We
Speaker 5: have to consider all of that compromised. What else are
Speaker 5: they into my automatic car starter, the laptop in front
Speaker 5: of me? Do they control an explosive in my phone?
Speaker 5: So their heads have to be spinning.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Israeli intelligence is therefore unlimited, but showing how warped.
Speaker 2: The United Nations is its special coordinator for Lebanon, condemned
Speaker 2: the attack, saying it marked an extremely concerning escalation in
Speaker 2: the conflict. That's the un condemning an attack on terrorists,
Speaker 2: a targeted attack. They overlook the fact that Hesbela has
Speaker 2: launched more than eight thousand rockets against Israel since October
Speaker 2: seventh alone, and there are sixty three thousand people displaced
Speaker 2: from northern Israel as a result, sixty three thousand Nettenawho
Speaker 2: wants these Israelis to be able to return to their homes.
Speaker 2: As I said, this was a targeted attack and it
Speaker 2: acts as a warning yet again that terrorists ultimately can't hide,
Speaker 2: they can't escape. Sophisticated Israeli intelligence that will outrun them
Speaker 2: every time. This operation also has the added benefit of
Speaker 2: taking every HASBELAOD terrorist offline, destroying their communication method Now,
Speaker 2: while the United Nations may tomorrow demand an unconditional ceasefire,
Speaker 2: Israel's strategic objective is not just to end the war,
Speaker 2: but to annihilate the terror threat in order to have
Speaker 2: lasting peace. And with four hundred Hesbela terrorists killed over
Speaker 2: the past year and leading her Mus figures taken out
Speaker 2: as well, it seems like Israel now is on its
Speaker 2: way to winning the war on terror. All Right, We've
Speaker 2: got a lot coming up in the show. Dave Sharma
Speaker 2: will join me a bit later to speak about that,
Speaker 2: as well as Bridget Mackenzie, Michael downby Michael Shubridge. But
Speaker 2: now let's bring in my regular Wednesday panel, former Victorian
Speaker 2: Liberal Party president Michael Kroger and labor legend Graham Richardson.
Speaker 2: Welcome to you both. Look, this was really a stunning operation.
Speaker 2: Michael Kroger, what was your reaction when you woke up
Speaker 2: to hear the news of it today?
Speaker 4: Well, it was an incredibly successful operation by the Israelis
Speaker 4: and it was directed towards military targets in Lebanon and Syria,
Speaker 4: and it worked incredibly successfully. Unlike hes Blah, by the way,
Speaker 4: who fire rockets at Willy Nilly civilians or otherwise into
Speaker 4: the northern parts of Israel, I don't care who they kill.
Speaker 4: So as a target operation, this was incredibly successful. They
Speaker 4: said we're going after military targets and that's exactly what
Speaker 4: they did. And the fact that up to three thousand
Speaker 4: hes Bala fighters have been injured probably ultimately will curtail
Speaker 4: a lot of their activities. And very clearly the Israelis,
Speaker 4: where Nasrolla is the leader of Hesblah, he would know
Speaker 4: that they know where he is and they could take
Speaker 4: him out at any opportunity. So, as you say, this
Speaker 4: will probably be a good step towards ending this fight
Speaker 4: between Hesbla and the Israelis.
Speaker 2: Rich O, this will go down as one of the
Speaker 2: legendary intelligence operations.
Speaker 7: Don't you think, Oh, this is brilliant. I think that's
Speaker 7: the only word for it, Absolutely brilliant. And it means
Speaker 7: that if you're against Israel over there, you are worrying
Speaker 7: every minute of every day, will I be alive tomorrow.
Speaker 7: I think that's a good way to have your enemy.
Speaker 2: No question, about it. Look, we're going to return to this.
Speaker 2: We'll have analysis throughout the show because it was the
Speaker 2: biggest story around the world today, but more locally in Australia.
Speaker 2: Last night, who's who of the business community gathered for
Speaker 2: the BCA and Your Dinner where the Prime Minister claimed
Speaker 2: that he is pro business and pro worker but Michael,
Speaker 2: he tiptoed around the union backed IR laws. This is
Speaker 2: the main point of contention. He did admit there were
Speaker 2: crucks in the relationship with a business sector. Let's have
Speaker 2: a quick look at that.
Speaker 8: I am optimistic that government and business can do this together.
Speaker 8: We have different responsibilities that demand different approaches, so it
Speaker 8: is inevitable we will have occasional differences of opinion.
Speaker 2: Michael, do you think Albanezi is facing to some extent
Speaker 2: a revolt from the business community.
Speaker 4: Well, of course he is. The question is whether the
Speaker 4: business community can act on that and change votes. I mean,
Speaker 4: the Trading Moon for decades have given money to and
Speaker 4: supported the Labor Party elections. The BCA and state based
Speaker 4: affiliates and hangers on tend to be neutral during election campaigns,
Speaker 4: which doesn't do their cause any good because the government
Speaker 4: then doesn't their labor government never fear them, so they've
Speaker 4: got to get active, like the mining companies did over
Speaker 4: the mining tax. I mean, if you don't fight, you lose.
Speaker 4: The Business Council doesn't fight, so it keeps losing. So
Speaker 4: it has these wonderful dinners and cocktail parties where they
Speaker 4: have these meetings. But I'm sorry, Labor politicians take no
Speaker 4: notice of the Business Council of Australia and increasingly so
Speaker 4: the Liberal Party politicians don't take much notice of them.
Speaker 4: The last public campaign the business community ran will full
Speaker 4: force was to give millions of dollars to the Voice.
Speaker 4: Well that was a debacle and a disaster and makes
Speaker 4: them just insipid. So if they get back to fighting
Speaker 4: for their members, people will start taking them seriously. And
Speaker 4: the incoming Liberal government, if that's to be the case,
Speaker 4: will take them seriously.
Speaker 2: And they have shown a bit of fight over the
Speaker 2: past fortnight, and we hear that behind the scenes the
Speaker 2: Prime Minister hasn't been happy about this is communicated some
Speaker 2: of that privately, as I understand it, to senior leadership
Speaker 2: in the BCA. But Richard, it's not just the business
Speaker 2: community who's complaining here. Your old mate Bill Keilty has
Speaker 2: come out at a private lunch and to say that, well,
Speaker 2: the government's not doing enough to lift productivity. What did
Speaker 2: you make of his remarks?
Speaker 7: Well, I think when Kelty speaks, you're a mug if
Speaker 7: here don't listen. That's the main point here. Kelty is
Speaker 7: wise beyond belief and has.
Speaker 9: A stellar record.
Speaker 7: So if I were the government and I heard Kelty
Speaker 7: taking a stance like that, I'd be listening and I'd
Speaker 7: be acting upon it.
Speaker 2: Would you agree with what he said that there needs
Speaker 2: to be tax reform? He said personal income tax brackets.
Speaker 2: When you add in GSD, he's saying it's over fifty percent,
Speaker 2: it's too high. You put in bracket creep on top
Speaker 2: of that, and even with the tax cuts, people are
Speaker 2: paying more tax than they were two years ago. This
Speaker 2: is what he's saying, there needs to be tax reform.
Speaker 9: Well, there does wise.
Speaker 7: You do what we're doing now, you chase your tail,
Speaker 7: You just go around in a circle, and.
Speaker 9: That's all we're doing. So something's got to be done
Speaker 9: to break that.
Speaker 7: And if we don't break it, then I think all
Speaker 7: we're doing is condemning ourselves to committing the same sins.
Speaker 2: I mean, the problem is Michael Kroig, that government spending
Speaker 2: just gets bigger and bigger and bigger than ndis, you know,
Speaker 2: one of the biggest cost blowouts. So no government is
Speaker 2: going to want to rain in personal income tax. But
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's unsustainable, isn't it.
Speaker 4: Absolutely unsustainable? I mean, as I said, the problem with
Speaker 4: Charmers is he's too weak. He's spending one hundred and
Speaker 4: thirty billion dollars more between twenty twenty three and twenty
Speaker 4: twenty six, according to the budget papers, one hundred and
Speaker 4: thirty billion more than he's than he's getting. And so
Speaker 4: when you've got a weak treasurer who cannot resist the
Speaker 4: demands upon him, right, he always wants to spend money.
Speaker 4: And you know, look, you can say, you know there's
Speaker 4: no cause that isn't a good cause for government infrastructure, welfare, health, education,
Speaker 4: but you've got to draw the line somewhere. And when
Speaker 4: you've got a weak treasurer who doesn't have an economics background,
Speaker 4: like Jim Chalmers, who's floundering, it's very bad for the government.
Speaker 4: And you know, to be a successful government, you state
Speaker 4: or federal, you've got to have a strong treasurer who
Speaker 4: can resist the overtures of your own supports. Charmers can't
Speaker 4: do that, Albanies, you can't do it. The captives of
Speaker 4: the sort of the left wing, you know, activists. And
Speaker 4: that's why the Australian economy is in a mess and
Speaker 4: it's not going to get any better under Charmers because,
Speaker 4: as most people think, he's spending far too much money,
Speaker 4: and that's why inflation is still just under four percent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, inflation is. It has come down, but it
Speaker 2: is persistent. Rich O, the Prime Minister was clearly hoping
Speaker 2: for a rate cut before he calls the election. This
Speaker 2: is what he wanted to announce that he's got the
Speaker 2: cost of living under control. You've had your first rate cut,
Speaker 2: inflations coming down. But now we're seeing reports that actually
Speaker 2: the might not even be a rate cut in the
Speaker 2: first quarter of next year. He has to call the
Speaker 2: election in that time period, so it's not looking good
Speaker 2: for the PM.
Speaker 7: No, I don't think that there's any good timing ahead
Speaker 7: for Anthony. I think the problem is whenever he goes
Speaker 7: there are problems. I think he was looking for a
Speaker 7: sweet spot. It's not going to come. So he's got
Speaker 7: to face that reality. And then then he's got to
Speaker 7: face up to an election that is not going to
Speaker 7: be easy to win.
Speaker 2: Look, and even the unions turning against him. We saw
Speaker 2: today that there were thousands of CFMEU members both in
Speaker 2: Sydney and Melbourne who again stopped work in protest at
Speaker 2: the foster administration of their union. Michael. The union members
Speaker 2: have threatened a seventy two hour strike. They say that
Speaker 2: this would cripple the construction sector. I mean, this is
Speaker 2: quite extraordinary, these scenes against a labor PM.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they are, and you know they've got a right
Speaker 4: to strike. Unfortunately they're striking over the wrong thing. They
Speaker 4: think that, you know, they've got this belief that there's
Speaker 4: an attack on wages and conditions. No, it's got nothing
Speaker 4: to do with that, as we all know. But I've
Speaker 4: got to say it's a single minded achievement, Alban. Easy
Speaker 4: to have both business and the unions against you. I
Speaker 4: haven't seen that for a long time. But he's achieved that.
Speaker 4: He's got the Jewish community against him, and the mkal
Speaker 4: community against him. He's got the Aboriginal community against him,
Speaker 4: and the mining community, gold mining community against him. Boy,
Speaker 4: he's getting almost he's almost a Gold Medal status. I
Speaker 4: mean for offending everybody. Well, this is what happens if
Speaker 4: you're a weak prime minister like Alboiz and you try
Speaker 4: to please everyone, You've got to compromise your own beliefs,
Speaker 4: which are hard socialist left. I mean, he's a Jeremy Corbyn,
Speaker 4: he's a Bernie Sanders. That doesn't work in Australia. So
Speaker 4: he tries to appease everybody. You've got Wang over there.
Speaker 4: I mean, look, what is the purpose of the Albanzy government.
Speaker 4: That's what people are going to ask himself. Answer, there
Speaker 4: is no purpose. It fell into government after we'd been
Speaker 4: in power for nine years, we had no full term agenda,
Speaker 4: we'd had three prime ministers. Okay, the electorate said hey,
Speaker 4: we've had enough of you, time for change. But this
Speaker 4: bloke got into government on false prefaces that he had
Speaker 4: a plan to fix everything. Everyone knows not only he
Speaker 4: didn't have any he didn't have a plan. He doesn't
Speaker 4: have any idea what he's doing. And I think, as
Speaker 4: I said last night, Jerry, that's why I think Dutton's
Speaker 4: probably favorite now to win the election. This guy's polls
Speaker 4: are just getting worse every single day, and I can't
Speaker 4: see what's going to stop them continuing to fall.
Speaker 2: Rich Are You come on this show and you often say, look,
Speaker 2: people like Albo, and I always point out that no
Speaker 2: one I know says they like Albo, But that just
Speaker 2: could be the circles I'm mixed in. But you insist
Speaker 2: that he is a likable bloke and so people are
Speaker 2: going to vote him back in. But the floor in
Speaker 2: that argument is that the voters didn't love Tony Abbott.
Speaker 2: He wasn't in the polls a popular figure. He won
Speaker 2: with a fourteen seat landslide. Do you think there's a
Speaker 2: chance that the Liberals could have a swing coming their
Speaker 2: way of that size? It might not be enough to
Speaker 2: get them into government or even into minority government, but
Speaker 2: it could be a big swing.
Speaker 9: Nonetheless, I doubt it, That's all I can say. I
Speaker 9: doubt it. I think Anthony is always able.
Speaker 7: When an election's on too somehow just zoom up and
Speaker 7: the moment maketh the man.
Speaker 9: He just seems to be able to do it every time.
Speaker 2: I couldn't do it with the voice, though, could he?
Speaker 2: That was another voice?
Speaker 7: Hang on the voice an election, It was totally different.
Speaker 7: I always thought the voice was a very weird thing
Speaker 7: to be involved in.
Speaker 9: And you know I wouldn't want to tell you how
Speaker 9: I voted on it. All I know is that I
Speaker 9: ever happy with it being raised.
Speaker 2: They know how you voted on it because you came
Speaker 2: on this show. You said you disagreed with the vice.
Speaker 2: The PM wasn't happy with you, so you changed your
Speaker 2: position and you felt like you had to support the
Speaker 2: sake of the labor rubbish. You definitely said you disagreed
Speaker 2: with the vice. You'll shut out on this show, ID
Speaker 2: went in doubt.
Speaker 4: Labor politicians should ring you, mate, they should ring you
Speaker 4: when they're in doubt. And that's been the law in
Speaker 4: this country for forty years. Bill Hayden should have listened
Speaker 4: to you in those leadership battles thirty odd years ago.
Speaker 4: And you were right on the Voice. Alba was completely
Speaker 4: wrong and Richo nothing has done more damage to the
Speaker 4: Albanesi government than the Voice because he said to the
Speaker 4: whole country, this is my major priority. And everyone thought, mate,
Speaker 4: if that's your major if that's your major priority, you're
Speaker 4: the wrong man to be Prime Minis for this country
Speaker 4: at this time.
Speaker 9: There's some truth in that. I'd have to agree.
Speaker 7: I think it was a strange thing to be adopting
Speaker 7: as such a big deal. You know, if it's not
Speaker 7: a big deal to the great majority of Australians, it's
Speaker 7: not a big deal period.
Speaker 9: You're not going to change their mind.
Speaker 2: Well was also the way he went about it, you know,
Speaker 2: and and the way he fought the campaign. I mean,
Speaker 2: the polling show that sixty percent of people kind of
Speaker 2: agreed with the idea at the beginning. But when the
Speaker 2: Prime Minister started calling people chicken littles and racists, accusing
Speaker 2: no supporters of misinformation, he turned anyone who might have
Speaker 2: even been inclined to support it off it, you know,
Speaker 2: created a lot of bad will. Just before we go.
Speaker 2: I want to finish on ambulance wait times now. This
Speaker 2: is a major issue around the country. We've seen new
Speaker 2: figures today that ambulance wait times in New South Wales
Speaker 2: for critically ill patients who need urgent care have blown out.
Speaker 2: This story in the Citney Morning Herald. The worst areas
Speaker 2: were the Inner West, Northern Beaches and the Hawkesbury waiting
Speaker 2: longer for help than a year ago. But this is
Speaker 2: the same situation in Queensland, Victoria and South Australia. I mean,
Speaker 2: my point is, we see we pay more tax than ever.
Speaker 2: Governments are getting involved in all sorts of things that
Speaker 2: they probably don't need to get involved in. The most
Speaker 2: basic requirement is to deliver healthcare when someone's about to die,
Speaker 2: having a heart attack or a stroke or something else
Speaker 2: that an ambulance turns up. Gentlemen, why can't governments fulfill
Speaker 2: the most basic things? Michael Kroger, Well, it's.
Speaker 4: A very good point. And those areas where the ambulances
Speaker 4: are free, which is most areas, I understand people are
Speaker 4: going to emergency wards, and I don't know that those
Speaker 4: stats in the Herald article prove this, but anecdotally, I
Speaker 4: tend to think a lot of people are going to
Speaker 4: emergency wards so they don't have to pay for, you know,
Speaker 4: seeing a general pretitioner where they're not built. So the
Speaker 4: out of pocket expense is I think people are not
Speaker 4: paying it and they prefer to get or an emergency ward
Speaker 4: at a hospital by an ambulance. That's what I suspect
Speaker 4: is happening. Because there are too many examples, these numbers
Speaker 4: have blown out of all proportion with no particular reason.
Speaker 9: Rich.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's something a lot of people
Speaker 2: are worried about that if you need an ambulance urgently
Speaker 2: to be there quickly before you could get to a
Speaker 2: hospital yourself, that they just won't turn up in time,
Speaker 2: that you'll lose your life. Is that something that you
Speaker 2: think is a concerned.
Speaker 9: I think that people do think that. I think there
Speaker 9: are far too many who think it. I think all
Speaker 9: governments have to have.
Speaker 7: Another look at healthcare and ambulance times in particular. It's
Speaker 7: expensive to try and fix the problem, but if you
Speaker 7: don't fix the problem, it costs actual lives. It has
Speaker 7: a terrible effect in the community. So you've just got
Speaker 7: to change your priorities and make sure you do everything
Speaker 7: possible to fix agree.
Speaker 2: All right, rich O, Michael Kroger, Great to see both
Speaker 2: of you. Now let's return to the biggest story making
Speaker 2: headlines around the world today, the surprise attack on HESBLA
Speaker 2: where their personal pages were detonated. This was an unprecedented
Speaker 2: operation and joining me now Strategic Analysis Australia Director Michael Schubridge, Michael,
Speaker 2: good to see you again. Look waking up to this
Speaker 2: news in Australia today. It has surprised many with its
Speaker 2: brilliance in the execution What was your reaction when you
Speaker 2: took the time to analyze it.
Speaker 10: Well, I was shocked, like you were, Shari, But when
Speaker 10: I looked at the nature of it, this is the
Speaker 10: most deep and a devastating blow to a terrorist organization's
Speaker 10: leadership that we've seen in the last forty fifty years
Speaker 10: or maybe ever. The device were used by Hasbola's entire
Speaker 10: command structure and only by them, so it injured or
Speaker 10: killed a bunch of them and maybe some of the
Speaker 10: people that were holding the pages of these terrorist leaders.
Speaker 2: Hasblah has now threatened retaliation. What shape do you expect
Speaker 2: this will take? Given they are weakened as a result
Speaker 2: of this attack, Planning retaliation will be very difficult given
Speaker 2: their communication method has been literally destroyed.
Speaker 10: Well, has Bolla are absolutely in shock about this, and
Speaker 10: they're in disarray.
Speaker 9: You're right.
Speaker 10: These pages were a main way they led and commanded
Speaker 10: the Hasbolla terrorist organization, so they're on the back foot
Speaker 10: immediately in giving orders and instructions and coming up with
Speaker 10: a plan. I think it'll be like the Iranians that
Speaker 10: when that assassination happened right in the middle of Tehran
Speaker 10: of the Hesbola leader Hania they said, we'll do terrible
Speaker 10: things and they still don't know what to do.
Speaker 2: Hamas leader, of course, yes, because that embarrassed both Tehran
Speaker 2: and Hamas. Look, I just also want to ask you
Speaker 2: about ORCUS. It looks like it could expand. The US, Australia,
Speaker 2: and the UK are considering allowing three other allies access
Speaker 2: to the Pillar two technology here with Senator James Patterson
Speaker 2: speaking about this, South.
Speaker 11: Korea, New Zealand and Canada. They are advanced economies, they
Speaker 11: are like minded partners, they are fellow democracies, and we
Speaker 11: can work together on solving some of those technological problems,
Speaker 11: whether it's quantum computing or advanced hypersonics or cybersecurity, in
Speaker 11: a way that enhances our shared values and shared interests.
Speaker 2: So, Michael, they wouldn't be included on the nuclear submarine program,
Speaker 2: But what's your view on whether ORCUS should be extended. Well.
Speaker 10: Pillar two, which is the non nuclear submarine bit of UCAS,
Speaker 10: is meant to be about rapid improvement in military capabilities
Speaker 10: by getting new technologies into the hands of the UCUST partners' militaries.
Speaker 10: It's been underwhelming. It's been about government to government to
Speaker 10: government meetings and international travel. So these new partners need
Speaker 10: to bring urgency, money and technology. And really Japan is
Speaker 10: the one we haven't talked about. It's already indicated its interest.
Speaker 10: The problem with Canada and New Zealand is it looks
Speaker 10: like fear of missing out rather than them bringing real
Speaker 10: capability to the party.
Speaker 2: I also want to get your reaction, Paul Keating, Gareth Evans,
Speaker 2: Bob Carr. They're still objecting to Orcus. They seem to
Speaker 2: think they're the only sensible voices.
Speaker 10: Well, what's that line they would say that, wouldn't they?
Speaker 10: Paul Keating talks about the loss of Australian sovereignty by
Speaker 10: being laced into American military technology. Well, when he was
Speaker 10: the Prime minister, our military was replete with American military
Speaker 10: and intelligence technology. That ship sailed before he was the
Speaker 10: prime minister. So maybe he's forgotten, but I think it's
Speaker 10: right to look closely at how AUCAS is being implemented
Speaker 10: and being critical is not somehow disloyal.
Speaker 2: All right, Michael Schubridge, great to hear your thoughts. As always,
Speaker 2: Now before we go to the break Outgoing nine Boss
Speaker 2: Mike Sneezeby has spoken today for the first time since
Speaker 2: announcing his sudden resignation from the network. The Australians Leam
Speaker 2: Mendes confronted sneezeby outside Toronga Zoo this afternoon where nine
Speaker 2: was holding its strategy and people for him, have a.
Speaker 12: Look your departure from nine is that linked to the
Speaker 12: cultural view findings?
Speaker 9: And today's a lot about our people that are in there.
Speaker 7: But you're purchasing our learn focusing on our strategy and
Speaker 7: of course it's going to be a terrific day.
Speaker 9: So why have you decided to leave mine? Miss Stansbeak?
Speaker 9: Are you leaving? Why are you leaving?
Speaker 3: Before the report turned it down?
Speaker 2: And it seems or at least the top brass at
Speaker 2: nine have learned one lesson get out of the car
Speaker 2: talk to Liam Mendi's because last time when Peter Costello
Speaker 2: shoved him over, well that didn't end so well for Costello.
Speaker 2: And this all comes after months of turbulence at the networks.
Speaker 2: It awaits findings from an external report into the culture
Speaker 2: at the company. Now, after the break and angry, alber
Speaker 2: Eazy takes aim at the Greens and the Coalition for
Speaker 2: blocking his agenda, but is he prepared to use this
Speaker 2: to call an election? And the worst foreign minister in
Speaker 2: our nation's history. Pennywong is now embarrassing us ahead of
Speaker 2: the United Nations vote. Once again. I'm going to get
Speaker 2: Michael Danby and Bridget McKenzie's take on this after the break. Well,
Speaker 2: a lot more coming up on the show tonight. Let's
Speaker 2: get into it now with our political panel, National Senate
Speaker 2: Leader Bridget McKenzie and former Labor and p Michael dan
Speaker 2: Be great to see you both. Look. Anthony Alberinezi has
Speaker 2: accused the Coalition and the Greens of teaming up to
Speaker 2: block Labour's housing policy in the Senate. The PM tweeted
Speaker 2: this afternoon that Australians want their leaders to act now
Speaker 2: to make housing more affordable. Yet today the Liberals and
Speaker 2: Greens teamed up to block more help to buy a home. Now.
Speaker 2: There is speculation that the PM could call a double
Speaker 2: dissolution election, and he didn't rule it out when Clenell
Speaker 2: asked him about it yesterday. Bridget McKenzie, what are the
Speaker 2: coalition's issues with this legislation.
Speaker 13: Good evening, Sharhi, Well, we just don't think it's the
Speaker 13: right approach to actually free up supply that we know
Speaker 13: is needed in this country. We've seen images all day
Speaker 13: of construction workers on the streets of Melbourne. We know
Speaker 13: we've got the lowest new starts of new homes since
Speaker 13: twenty eleven under Labor. Meanwhile, they're pouring you know, a
Speaker 13: million over a million people into our crowded suburbs. So
Speaker 13: this is not the right mechanism with which to do it.
Speaker 13: The Greens think they can land a deal with the
Speaker 13: Labor Party if they have some more time to negotiate,
Speaker 13: and that's what they've sought to do and you know
Speaker 13: we've been able to facilitate that.
Speaker 6: So it's up to.
Speaker 13: The Labor Party in the Greens to bury the hatchet,
Speaker 13: get the band back together and for the Labor Party
Speaker 13: to actually either put the deal on the table that
Speaker 13: will get Adam Banton his team across the line or not,
Speaker 13: or'll be voted down by the end of the year.
Speaker 13: But we've got a whole raft of a suite of
Speaker 13: initiatives that will be taking to the election to open
Speaker 13: up supply on the supply side of the housing market,
Speaker 13: because it's not just about social and affordable housing obviously,
Speaker 13: we want to see Australians own their own home too,
Speaker 13: and this.
Speaker 2: Is becoming a major issue home ownership and the high
Speaker 2: price of renting with the inflation and cost of living crisis. Look,
Speaker 2: I just want to talk about the fact that the
Speaker 2: Prime Minister didn't rule out a double dissolution. It seems
Speaker 2: like that's our talk. He's unlikely to do that because
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to go to an election this year.
Speaker 12: What do you think, Michael, it'd be a fool But
Speaker 12: then that's not beyond the possibility with him. Look, it
Speaker 12: ended up with even more frost benches in the Senate already.
Speaker 12: We've made a tragic mistake of giving preferences to the Greens,
Speaker 12: which has got them elected in.
Speaker 14: A number of lower House seats. Those Greens wouldn't be
Speaker 14: elected without Labor Party preferences, and there becomes such an
Speaker 14: existential danger to the Labor Party that even the socialist
Speaker 14: left should understand it and a double d would be madness.
Speaker 2: I really think you know that the pressure now needs
Speaker 2: to be ramped up on the PM about what preference
Speaker 2: deals he is going to do with the Greens. He
Speaker 2: criticizes them all the time, correctly, but is he going
Speaker 2: to rely on them if he needs to to form government?
Speaker 2: And what are the preference deals. I think we need
Speaker 2: to have the answers to this. What do you think,
Speaker 2: bridget Yeah, I.
Speaker 13: Couldn't agree with you more Sharin, It was pretty fiery
Speaker 13: question time this week. It's the Senate only sitting and
Speaker 13: these are exactly the types of questions that Penny Wong
Speaker 13: and Murray Watt, two of the factional left labor ministers,
Speaker 13: are getting and their response to the Greens political party
Speaker 13: here in the Senate every single question time this week
Speaker 13: is a very emotional one.
Speaker 2: They're furious and they know.
Speaker 13: They're stuck between a rock and a hard place. The
Speaker 13: Greens are monstering the you know, the left wing labor constituency,
Speaker 13: and they're powerless to do anything about it.
Speaker 2: But Michael's dead right.
Speaker 13: The Senate and the House are full of Greens because
Speaker 13: of the Labor Party, and so I think the coalition
Speaker 13: had a lot of fun today. That's exactly what we
Speaker 13: were asking them during question time across the raucous chamber
Speaker 13: was you know, well, if you hate it so much,
Speaker 13: put them last. Didn't look like they were going to
Speaker 13: take that up.
Speaker 2: No, of course not, because for them, you know, power
Speaker 2: is everything. Well, let's see it drilled down a bit
Speaker 2: more on Penny Wong. Tomorrow Australia will vote on a
Speaker 2: United Nations resolution. As you know, this calls for a
Speaker 2: ban on arm sales to Israel, even calls for a
Speaker 2: boycott on Israeli companies. It calls for an unconditional withdrawal
Speaker 2: from Gaza, never mind the fact that there are still
Speaker 2: one hundred hostages held by terrorists in Gaza in dark tunnels.
Speaker 2: No mention, of course of Hamas or October seven. The
Speaker 2: Biden administration has slammed this resolution, calling it inflammatory and
Speaker 2: one sided. Penny Wang is already embarrassing Australia by giving
Speaker 2: this pro Haamas motion consideration. Michael, how can she possibly
Speaker 2: even be considering supporting this? And has she already lost
Speaker 2: all credibility as Foreign minister.
Speaker 14: She's more scared of the majority socialist left in her
Speaker 14: government and the alleged Muslim vote, which I think is
Speaker 14: greatly exaggerated in Western Sydney, than she is about political realities.
Speaker 14: The history of the Labor Party, Anywong, is that we
Speaker 14: always supported negotiations between the parties, not resolutions in the
Speaker 14: United Nations General Assembly passed by automatic majorities. With the
Speaker 14: Islamic countries imposed on the parties. You'll never get a
Speaker 14: settlement if you don't have both of them sit down
Speaker 14: and Obama, Clinton and Bush all had the Palestinians nearly
Speaker 14: at the table and they ran away face up to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good point, very good point, bridget This will be
Speaker 2: a major test for Labor. I think they're going to abstain.
Speaker 2: That's my instinct. What do you think.
Speaker 13: Well, we're reading in the most recent reports that Australia
Speaker 13: is attempting to water it down and amend it, etc.
Speaker 13: I mean, this is a point in time again for
Speaker 13: Penny Wong and Anthony Albaneze's Labor Party to take a
Speaker 13: stand on the global stage, to stop equivocating, to stop
Speaker 13: siding with Kamas sympathizers and terror sympathizers, and stand with
Speaker 13: our ally Israel at her time of need. It's an
Speaker 13: opportunity to send a very clear signal, not just to
Speaker 13: the international community but here at home. I'd be encouraging
Speaker 13: the Foreign Minister to not do it a third time
Speaker 13: in the UN to actually do the right thing, because
Speaker 13: as we know, the only thing necessary are for evil
Speaker 13: to triumph. For good men and women in the twenty
Speaker 13: first century to do nothing and This is her chance
Speaker 13: to stand up not just for Israel, but for the
Speaker 13: Jewish community here at home. That's very supportive of obviously
Speaker 13: the Israeli community.
Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, the fight is
Speaker 2: against terrorists. We just had the anniversary of Stromber eleven.
Speaker 2: I mean fundamental Islamic extremism, terrorism, l you know, was
Speaker 2: what caused September eleven. This is a war against all
Speaker 2: of us in the West, not just Jews and loss
Speaker 2: Bridget McKenzie, Michael Danby, thank you very much for joining
Speaker 2: me once again now after the break, the man at
Speaker 2: the center of this week's bombshell story would join us live.
Speaker 2: Heston Russell will speak about the ABC doctoring video to
Speaker 2: accuse him of war crimes, plus today's fresh revelations. The
Speaker 2: ABC journalist promised a positive story misleading a US soldier
Speaker 2: that secret recording has now been published. That's all coming
Speaker 2: up after the breaks, don't go away, Welcome back on
Speaker 2: now to more shocking revelations around the ABC's war crime reporting.
Speaker 2: The ABC is now being accused of manipulating comments from
Speaker 2: a former United States Drug Enforcement Administration leader. Brett Hamilton
Speaker 2: said that he only agreed to an interview with the
Speaker 2: ABC journalist Mark Willacy because he was promised that it
Speaker 2: would be a positive story. Now the Daily Telegraph has
Speaker 2: obtained this secret recording where you can actually hear the
Speaker 2: ABC reporter making that promise.
Speaker 1: Have a look, I am interested in doing something more
Speaker 1: broadly about the positive sort of relationship you know that
Speaker 1: developed in twenty eleven, continued and then through to twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: about you know, the actual achievements you guys, you know,
Speaker 1: racked up with the commandos. At some point, I'm not
Speaker 1: too interested in going down the road of this negative stuff.
Speaker 6: Hown you if.
Speaker 1: Anything, if somebody could capture the successors that we had.
Speaker 2: He literally said, I'm not interested in going down the
Speaker 2: path of this negative stuff. But the story that he
Speaker 2: was pursuing was about war crimes, highly misleading to lie
Speaker 2: to someone like that. Hamilton's comments were then, according to
Speaker 2: Brett Hamilton himself, taken completely out of context. Now Communications
Speaker 2: Minister Michelle Roland has today finally demanded answers from the ABC.
Speaker 1: I will be seeking a briefing from the ABC on
Speaker 1: this issue, because you are absolutely right, Australians need to
Speaker 1: have trust in their national broadcast.
Speaker 2: All right. Well, now, retired Special Forces Major Heston Russell
Speaker 2: joins me live. Heston, thanks so much for your time. Look, firstly,
Speaker 2: I want to get your reaction to that secret audio
Speaker 2: of Mark Willersy promising Brett Hamon that it was going
Speaker 2: to be a positive story about working with you and
Speaker 2: your platoon.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 15: Hi, So that recording was actually submitted to the Federal Court.
Speaker 15: That's actually the recording of the conversation Mark Willisy had
Speaker 15: with Brett Hamilton, and Brett then subsequently came on the
Speaker 15: Spotlight program. Brett even did an interview with ben fordham
Speaker 15: during my court case to say how discussed he was at,
Speaker 15: how his interview was manipulated, and also you know, the
Speaker 15: invitation to have him come on it was in complete
Speaker 15: ruse to get grabs from him to further try and
Speaker 15: incriminate me. I mean, I've maintained contacts with Brett Hamilton
Speaker 15: since we deployed Afghanistan in twenty twelve, So as soon
Speaker 15: as that came out, I linked him with Ben Fordham
Speaker 15: and the team and the fact that the ABC is
Speaker 15: willing to take the comments from a us DEA Drug
Speaker 15: Enforcement Administration commander, someone who works in Washington, DC and
Speaker 15: manipulate in such a way is not only fraudulent, but
Speaker 15: how is that for a representation of the Australia TA
Speaker 15: Australia treats out US diplomats.
Speaker 2: I have to say I find it very shocking personally
Speaker 2: as a journalist to hear a journalist like Mark Willisey
Speaker 2: make a phone call like that where he promises something
Speaker 2: was going to be a positive story when he knew
Speaker 2: all along that he was chasing a story about war crimes.
Speaker 2: I just think that's shocking. And then to make it worse,
Speaker 2: Mark willisy called us at NewsCorp bottom feeders, but his
Speaker 2: lack of ethics seems to be unmatched. I mean, it
Speaker 2: doesn't get worse than And of course he has said
Speaker 2: he didn't know about this, doctoring a video to add gunshots,
Speaker 2: or lying about whether something was going to be a
Speaker 2: positive story. How would you describe the journalism at the
Speaker 2: ABC that targeted you.
Speaker 6: Well, let's get this very clear.
Speaker 15: So there's all the hype about these six shots that
Speaker 15: were originally one shot and now another six that turn
Speaker 15: into twelve. But the key point here is that Mark
Speaker 15: willis he got fifteen seconds worth of helmet camera footage
Speaker 15: and put together an entire seventeen thirty report that said
Speaker 15: that me and my soldiers, he said it was me
Speaker 15: personally firing, were flying around in helicopters shoot at unarmed civilians.
Speaker 15: Then in April last year, during my court I gave
Speaker 15: the ABC the full five minute video that shows us
Speaker 15: chasing these insurgents.
Speaker 6: It shows us firing those shots.
Speaker 15: Landing on the ground, moving forward to capture them, and
Speaker 15: then getting ambushed and shot at, and you can physically
Speaker 15: see me on the camera getting shot at with my soldier.
Speaker 15: The ABC has had this full narrative, there's full context
Speaker 15: for over eighteen months now we're arguing over shots being manipulated.
Speaker 15: That's shocking in itself, but they have had the full
Speaker 15: context of where Australian soldiers actually performed pretty well magnificently
Speaker 15: on the ground in combat, and instead of chosen to
Speaker 15: just stick to their narrative that they manufactured from fifteen seconds.
Speaker 6: Worth of footage, that's where we're at in Australia.
Speaker 15: That you can call my entire career and those of
Speaker 15: my soldiers in the Special Forces into disrepute because you
Speaker 15: come across fifteen seconds worth of footage and decide to
Speaker 15: make up your own narrative and then when we give
Speaker 15: you the full narrative, you stick to your guns.
Speaker 2: Heston. What other legal options are you looking at?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 6: There's too many?
Speaker 15: And look, I want to say a massive thank you
Speaker 15: to Skye to seven to everyone has picked up on this.
Speaker 15: So many people are going to my website Heston Russell
Speaker 15: dot com and sending me emails about criminal defamation, about
Speaker 15: you know, maladministration, on the Commonwealth law, all these sorts
Speaker 15: of things. And look, I'm working with an amazing legal
Speaker 15: team already to rack and stack what we could and
Speaker 15: should do. But as you've heard, I've written to Kim
Speaker 15: Williams to ask to meet with ABC.
Speaker 6: I've written with Mitch.
Speaker 15: I've written to Richard Marles to ask to meet with
Speaker 15: him because where is the Department of Defense. They've had
Speaker 15: this footage, They've had this footage in their archive. I
Speaker 15: was questioned on this footage in the Breton Report and
Speaker 15: they've remained quiet this whole time, even after the ABC
Speaker 15: had been found to manipulate shots like this.
Speaker 6: Is this moral.
Speaker 15: Injury the Royal Commission is talking about as leading to
Speaker 15: the degrad and veteran mental health case in Point Ladies
Speaker 15: and gentlemen here it is defense. Step up and do
Speaker 15: your job and to get back to your shari. We'll
Speaker 15: find out. I don't want to go down that legal path.
Speaker 15: It's a long path.
Speaker 6: I'm tired. But hey, if that's what's needed, I'll do it.
Speaker 2: So you are considering the options. If Kim Williams hasn't
Speaker 2: agreed to meet with you, I take it you haven't
Speaker 2: heard from him yet.
Speaker 6: Haven't heard from anyone of the ABC yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a disgrace. All right, Hess and Russell, thank
Speaker 2: you for your time. Now after the break, all eyes
Speaker 2: firmly on Penny Wang how Australia will vote at the UN.
Speaker 2: She's under pressure from the Biden administration to vote this down.
Speaker 2: Dave Sharma is going to join us after the break.
Speaker 2: I'll also ask him about the Hesbala attacks and law.
Speaker 2: Welcome back. Well, let's bring in now Liberal Senator Dave
Speaker 2: Sharma from Canberra. Great to see you, David, not just
Speaker 2: liberal senator of course, but Australia's former ambassador to Israel.
Speaker 2: And I want to ask you about what we are
Speaker 2: presuming is a joint operation between Mossad and the IDF
Speaker 2: against Hesbela pages Overnight very targeted operation. How sophisticated and
Speaker 2: unprecedented do you think this is?
Speaker 16: Well, Look, firstly, Israel has not claimed responsibility for this,
Speaker 16: nor would they do so in normal circumstances, but Hezebela
Speaker 16: has certainly said Israel is responsible. I think it's important
Speaker 16: to understand that Israel and Hesbeler have been at Warnow
Speaker 16: for eleven months, have been about over five hundred people
Speaker 16: killed on both sides of the border. There's over one
Speaker 16: hundred and fifty thousand people displaced on both sides of
Speaker 16: the border, so they are in a state of conflict,
Speaker 16: and in a state of conflict, you target your enemy,
Speaker 16: and that's clearly what this operation has intended to do
Speaker 16: in quite a targeted way, to go after Hesbela operatives
Speaker 16: and key figures who were in possession of these pages.
Speaker 2: Well, Hesbela has fired eight thousand rockets towards Israel just
Speaker 2: since October seven alone. As you say, a lot of
Speaker 2: people displaced, Some sixty three thousand Israelis have had to
Speaker 2: be removed from the northern border. Benjamin Ettina, who's sat
Speaker 2: on the weekend, that he wants those people to be
Speaker 2: able to return home. A couple of days later, we've
Speaker 2: seen this very targeted attack. Hesbela pages detonated, so this
Speaker 2: is quite an extraordinary operation, but it does fit with
Speaker 2: the fact that he wants the Prime Minister wants people
Speaker 2: to be able to go back home.
Speaker 16: Look, that's right. Nssen Jojuanyov Galant his Defense minister, have
Speaker 16: been saying quite insistently in recent weeks that Israel's northern
Speaker 16: population needs to be able to return. Schools need to
Speaker 16: be able to reopen, families need to be able to
Speaker 16: go back to their homes. And I think this what
Speaker 16: this operation says to Hesbla is we have the capability
Speaker 16: to do signify really more harm to you. We need
Speaker 16: to reach some sort of accommodation that de escalates tensions
Speaker 16: and allows people on both sides of the border to
Speaker 16: return and stops the incessant firing of rockets from Hesbela
Speaker 16: across into Israel. So I think it's a demonstration of
Speaker 16: capability but also intent, and it's designed to send a
Speaker 16: strategic message to Hesbla that now is the time to
Speaker 16: back off.
Speaker 2: I want to turn to this United Nations vote. Pennywang,
Speaker 2: Foreign Minister seems to be trying to negotiate to have
Speaker 2: the language changed, Dave Sharma, isn't this motion so extreme
Speaker 2: that you couldn't even begin to tinker with it to
Speaker 2: have it in any shape or form that would be acceptable.
Speaker 16: I agree with Linda Thomas Greenfield, who is Joe Biden
Speaker 16: and Kamala Harris's ambassador to the u N that this
Speaker 16: is a one sided, inflammatory resolution that will do nothing
Speaker 16: to advance the cause of piece. It doesn't condemn the
Speaker 16: Hamas terrorist attacks to the seventh of October, it doesn't
Speaker 16: recogniz Israel's right to exist behind peaceful and secure borders.
Speaker 16: It doesn't call for the release of hostages. For all
Speaker 16: these reasons, it should not even be an internal debate
Speaker 16: within the Australian government about what position we should be taking.
Speaker 16: We should be opposing it. But the fact that the
Speaker 16: government seems to be considering doing what the Green's are
Speaker 16: urging them to do, which is to support the resolution,
Speaker 16: I just think shows you how much they have outsourced
Speaker 16: foreign policy in the Middle East to what the Greens
Speaker 16: say and do.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, as a diplomat, you must be
Speaker 2: a former diplomat, you must be shocked at where Australia's
Speaker 2: foreign policy is at the moment. Can you imagine having
Speaker 2: to be the Australian ambassador in Israel at the moment?
Speaker 16: Well, I think it's a very difficult job because what
Speaker 16: this government has done is consciously and quite deliberately not
Speaker 16: only sought to downgrade our relationship with Israel, but to
Speaker 16: quite grievously damaging damage it through its public rhetoric, through
Speaker 16: its tendentious interpretation of the Mark Binskin Report, through its
Speaker 16: change in voting positions on you and resolutions. And it's
Speaker 16: not in a way that is helping to advance the
Speaker 16: cause of peace or a two state solution or Palestinian
Speaker 16: self determination. It's in a way that's designed to appease,
Speaker 16: to appease local constituencies in Australia and alleviate political pressure
Speaker 16: from the Greens. That is no way to be setting
Speaker 16: foreign policy.
Speaker 2: It's utterly extraordinary that there's a couple of marginal seats
Speaker 2: in Western Sydney that seem to be ultimately determining foreign
Speaker 2: policy and seeing us break with our ally the United States.
Speaker 2: Dave Sharma, thank you very much for your insights and
Speaker 2: that's it for me. I'll see you tomorrow night at
Speaker 2: eight o'clock. Up right now, though, Paul Murray,