WEBVTT - A controversial new approach to dating

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Hello, they're Healthy sh listeners. I hope you're having

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<v Speaker 1>a great day. This, of course, is the daily podcast

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<v Speaker 1>from Body and Soul. I am your host, Felicity Harley.

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<v Speaker 1>TikTok sensation hit podcaster and life coach Margarita Nazarenko joins

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<v Speaker 1>me today now. She has amassed a massive no a

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<v Speaker 1>mega following on social media from sharing her thoughts on

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<v Speaker 1>dating now. Some might say they're controversial, others think they're empowering.

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<v Speaker 1>She's discussing her new book today called The New Rules,

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<v Speaker 1>and particularly why it's okay to want and need a man.

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<v Speaker 1>If you do like what you hear from Margarita listening

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<v Speaker 1>to Extra Healthy Issue, where she talks more about how

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<v Speaker 1>to harness your female energy. You can catch that where

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<v Speaker 1>we get your podcasts. Margarita, thank you for joining us

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<v Speaker 1>today on Healthy She Congratulations on your new book.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much. You're so lovely to have me.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, tell me why do we need some new rules

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to dating?

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I wasn't even aware that we needed these

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<v Speaker 3>new rules until I saw the kerfuffle in which women

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<v Speaker 3>are in when I started my TikTok. They are flustered

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<v Speaker 3>and I understand why. I think there is something to

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<v Speaker 3>be said about having rules around anything in life, whether

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<v Speaker 3>it be working out, whether it be dating, whether it

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<v Speaker 3>be friendship, because if you don't have any paradigm to

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<v Speaker 3>work inside, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't know what's right and wrong.

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<v Speaker 3>I had messages from women where men treated them just appallingly,

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<v Speaker 3>and they're asking me, oh, do you think he's the one?

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<v Speaker 3>Do you think I should be with him? And reading it,

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<v Speaker 3>it's shocking because there are no rules around dating. Everyone

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<v Speaker 3>just does what they want, do what you like, be

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<v Speaker 3>with who you want to be with. Great, but he's

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<v Speaker 3>treating you like crap, so maybe he's not the one.

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<v Speaker 3>So we do need some rules for women to not

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<v Speaker 3>get themselves in these situations.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's interesting because you know, you started your

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<v Speaker 1>TikTok and it just explodeded, didn't it, with all people

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<v Speaker 1>coming out agreeing with you, disagreeing with you, asking you questions.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is the whole basis of your book

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<v Speaker 1>to provide answers to all these questions.

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<v Speaker 3>It was this explosion of women having these questions, and

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's because we've been given so many freedoms

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<v Speaker 3>just as human beings, as we should say what you want,

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<v Speaker 3>say how you feel, do what you want. But we

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<v Speaker 3>don't have enough wisdom, perhaps maybe from our grandmothers or

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<v Speaker 3>our mothers or I don't know where the wisdom is gone,

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<v Speaker 3>but there are no sets of rules and guidelines, and

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<v Speaker 3>I think women are desperate for it, as are men.

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<v Speaker 3>That's why they sometimes lean on toxic role models, maybe

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<v Speaker 3>like the you know, the Andrew Tates not commenting on

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<v Speaker 3>whether he is or isn't, that's up to them, but

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<v Speaker 3>we wonder, oh, why are men leaning on him? Well,

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<v Speaker 3>maybe because we don't have any other role models right,

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<v Speaker 3>And all I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Saying is, well, maybe they shouldn't treat you this way.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe this is what you should do, or maybe this

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<v Speaker 2>is what you shouldn't do.

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<v Speaker 3>And women jumped on it way more than I ever anticipated.

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<v Speaker 2>Because these are just my private thoughts and ideas. I thought,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go on there privately.

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<v Speaker 3>And put my thoughts on TikTok because nobody knows me

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<v Speaker 3>on low and behold, it's almost at a million followers

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<v Speaker 3>of not even followers of women who think the same way.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was like, wow, it resonates, so that was amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's actually extraordinary when you flick through you on TikTok

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<v Speaker 1>or Instagram and say how many views each of your

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<v Speaker 1>videos have got? And the actual subject matter. I found

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<v Speaker 1>that really quite fascinating, like what are people what do

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<v Speaker 1>they really want to know? Where are we where do

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<v Speaker 1>we need more guidance when it comes to relationships.

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<v Speaker 3>The fascinating thing was is just they want it in

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<v Speaker 3>these areas where women aren't feeling like men are putting

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<v Speaker 3>an effort, men aren't chasing them, Men aren't, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>deciding on dates, men aren't deciding they want to get married.

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<v Speaker 3>It's almost like women are the complete drivers of the relationships.

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<v Speaker 3>And as much as that is what we wanted, we

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<v Speaker 3>also now realize that's not exactly what we want and

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<v Speaker 3>we kind of want to backtrack a little bit because

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<v Speaker 3>it's not fun to not be pursued and wanted and

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<v Speaker 3>you don't know if he even wants to be in

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<v Speaker 3>the relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>Basically because you're making all the decisions new rules of dating.

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<v Speaker 1>Are they more for everyone, are they for a person

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<v Speaker 1>and perhaps their own sort of boundaries or how do

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<v Speaker 1>you say to you just trying to well, just set

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<v Speaker 1>some parameters around.

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<v Speaker 3>The first part of the book, the beginning of the rules.

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<v Speaker 3>The first five is rules about being yourself. That's detachment,

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<v Speaker 3>that self confidence, that's the ideas of.

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<v Speaker 2>Who you are and who you want to be.

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<v Speaker 3>And the next part is being her with him, and

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<v Speaker 3>that is some rules like it's okay to want a man,

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<v Speaker 3>because yes, we've done the whole you know, yes, go girl,

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<v Speaker 3>you don't need a man, but everyone secretly wants one

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<v Speaker 3>and everyone wants to fall in love, like every fairy

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<v Speaker 3>tale is about that, right, So it gets to your humanity,

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<v Speaker 3>the fact that you want a family, you want to

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<v Speaker 3>be with someone. So it's not we've had this kind

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<v Speaker 3>of metric of you know, it's okay to be independent

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<v Speaker 3>and you don't need a man, but then we don't

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<v Speaker 3>want to be lonely, right because we're human beings.

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<v Speaker 2>So actually that's not what we wanted.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's about going back on that and also about

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<v Speaker 3>how he shouldn't treat you, and that it's okay to

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<v Speaker 3>say you want marriage, and then it's a to say

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<v Speaker 3>that you're not gonna you know, it's fun to be liberal,

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<v Speaker 3>but so it's also okay to say that you want

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<v Speaker 3>to get married.

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<v Speaker 2>At the end of the day, it's not disgusting to

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<v Speaker 2>want to have a family.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I thought that, actually that that was your

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<v Speaker 1>real seven. It's okay to want and need a man.

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<v Speaker 1>It was really interesting because that could jar with a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of women who are feminists and I want to

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<v Speaker 1>pave my own way and I don't need a man

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<v Speaker 1>to survive in this world. I actually quite liked that.

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<v Speaker 1>You you know that you're right, like, deep down, a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of us actually do want someone to go through

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<v Speaker 1>life with. I mean, that's how the human species has evolved.

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<v Speaker 3>We are a species, and we're a mammal and we're

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<v Speaker 3>and I love love. I love to be around my mum,

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<v Speaker 3>she's my parent. I love to be around my husband,

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<v Speaker 3>he's my you know. I love to be around my children.

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<v Speaker 3>The fact that we're pretending that we don't want that

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<v Speaker 3>is trying to break something that is natural.

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<v Speaker 2>So why don't we say, actually, I do.

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<v Speaker 3>Want to be with someone, and I do want a family,

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<v Speaker 3>but maybe not with that toxic person, and maybe not

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<v Speaker 3>right now, and maybe I do also want a career,

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<v Speaker 3>and how am I going to do it? And let's

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<v Speaker 3>get into them under it and really try and get

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<v Speaker 3>through it, because it's not as simple as I can

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<v Speaker 3>do it all myself.

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<v Speaker 2>Because actually I don't want to. I don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>do it all myself.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't want to lift the heavy thing myself, as

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<v Speaker 3>like as small as that, and I don't want a

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<v Speaker 3>parent by myself.

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<v Speaker 2>I want someone to do it with. So sue me.

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<v Speaker 3>You know it's pretty. And you know what's fascinating about

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<v Speaker 3>what you said? Do you know who's angry at me?

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<v Speaker 3>Not women and not feminists, because feminists come to me

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<v Speaker 3>and say, actually, yeah, I kind of do want a

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<v Speaker 3>man will be nice.

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<v Speaker 2>Who's angry? It's men? It's men. Why men? What do

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<v Speaker 2>they think of anger? To their voice?

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<v Speaker 3>I think they're angry because essentially what I see in

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<v Speaker 3>men is that they do want to make women happy.

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<v Speaker 3>At their core, they want to be liked by women.

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<v Speaker 3>They do or that's what men want, right, And so

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<v Speaker 3>we've told them, actually, go away, we don't need you,

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<v Speaker 3>and then are like, okay, yeah, you don't need us.

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<v Speaker 3>Well we'll let you go and we'll let you do

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<v Speaker 3>what you want and you don't need us. And now

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<v Speaker 3>I'm coming back and saying, actually, I need you to

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<v Speaker 3>step up and be more masculine and you know, make

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<v Speaker 3>decisions and decide what you want to do. And they're

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<v Speaker 3>angry about that. They're like, oh, this is not what

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<v Speaker 3>I've been told. It's confusing to be a man. And

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<v Speaker 3>I get it.

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<v Speaker 2>But sorry, sorry buddy.

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<v Speaker 1>Like that, I mean, I agree with you. I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's very confusing for you know, what is masculinely today?

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<v Speaker 2>What does it look like? What does it mean?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean for them, they see the goalpost changing, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not siding with them. I'm just empathizing that. I

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<v Speaker 1>do get it's a human experience. I've got a son.

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<v Speaker 1>What am I going to tell him. I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>tell him, you know, be decisive, pay for the date,

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<v Speaker 1>do all those things. And if she says, yuck, you're

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<v Speaker 1>trying to, you know, put me down as a human being,

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<v Speaker 1>say I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 3>I was just trying to be polite for me as

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<v Speaker 3>a person me. If I invite you somewhere we're both female,

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<v Speaker 3>I will offer to pay because I invited you. It's

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<v Speaker 3>not about you know, I'm trying to you know, dehumanize you.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just about politeness. So that's about rules as well,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, just about I took it.

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to quickly mention real eight I thought

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<v Speaker 1>this was an interesting one new other prize. What's this

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<v Speaker 1>all about?

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<v Speaker 3>Modern dating has led me to understand because you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm married and I have been for ten years, but

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<v Speaker 3>I have seen that in modern dating, men are leading

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<v Speaker 3>women down the path of trying to make them believe

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<v Speaker 3>that women aren't the prize, and biologically we are.

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<v Speaker 2>Just biologically we are.

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<v Speaker 3>So when a man is like, why isn't she paying

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<v Speaker 3>fifty percent of the day, why is I am? Also

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<v Speaker 3>I deserve flowers? Okay, buddy, But that's not how it works,

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<v Speaker 3>because at the end of the day, you pursue her

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<v Speaker 3>because that makes you feel like you've achieved something, and

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<v Speaker 3>she feels like she's achieved something because she's being pursued.

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<v Speaker 3>That's just how the dynamic works, and that's what makes

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<v Speaker 3>people happy. Unless you're maybe five percent of the people

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<v Speaker 3>that don't want to operate that way. There is a

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<v Speaker 3>percentage who don't, but the majority do. So when you're

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<v Speaker 3>sitting online and men are making you believe that they

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<v Speaker 3>want this and that, and then they never marry you,

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<v Speaker 3>but they marry the next girl who they do have

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<v Speaker 3>to pursue, and you're wondering.

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<v Speaker 2>Why, why did that happen?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, because you brought into this idea that they've sold

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<v Speaker 3>you that you're not the prize, but you are. So

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<v Speaker 3>if you act like it, everything will go swimmingly for you.

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<v Speaker 3>And if you don't, men will use you and then

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<v Speaker 3>they'll reject you in the end, and they'll our habit

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<v Speaker 3>with you for ten fifteen years, and then you'll be

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<v Speaker 3>surprised at why has he married Jennifer.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so true, Margarita, because Jennifer knew she is the prize. Yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you for coming on health Fish.

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<v Speaker 1>I hope you enjoyed this chat with Margarita if you did,

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<v Speaker 1>jump on rate and review it.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, her new book.

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<v Speaker 1>Is out now. It is called The New Rules. Or

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<v Speaker 1>you can share this podcast with someone who needs some

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<v Speaker 1>advice when it comes to dating and building confidence. Anything

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<v Speaker 1>else head body and sooul dot com dot you follow

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<v Speaker 1>us on socials grob Our print edition which is out

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<v Speaker 1>in your local Sunday paper and until tomorrow, stay healthy

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<v Speaker 1>Ish