1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Approache production. 2 00:00:10,121 --> 00:00:14,361 Speaker 2: This episode discusses the abduction and murder of children, including 3 00:00:14,401 --> 00:00:18,281 Speaker 2: graphic details of the crimes and their investigation. It may 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:27,441 Speaker 2: be distressing for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome 5 00:00:27,481 --> 00:00:30,081 Speaker 2: to Real Crime with Adam Shander. I'm your host, Adam Shand. 6 00:00:30,881 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: Is there anything more heinous than the kidnap and murder 7 00:00:34,081 --> 00:00:38,281 Speaker 2: of children? Unfortunately, there's a history of sick, twisted men 8 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: stealing and killing kids in Australia. The motive is so 9 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,761 Speaker 2: hard to understand and the crime so calculating that many 10 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 2: of these outrages remain unsolved. From the Beaumont children in 11 00:00:50,601 --> 00:00:51,561 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty. 12 00:00:51,241 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 3: Six, punished from Glenell Beach on Australia Day and their 13 00:00:54,641 --> 00:00:58,481 Speaker 3: disappearance remains one of Australia's most enduring and high profile 14 00:00:58,601 --> 00:00:59,921 Speaker 3: cold cases. 15 00:01:00,241 --> 00:01:02,801 Speaker 2: The Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirsty Gordon a the Adelaide Oval 16 00:01:02,801 --> 00:01:05,961 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy three, people were. 17 00:01:05,801 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: Watching the football a man walked out with two children. 18 00:01:09,321 --> 00:01:11,321 Speaker 1: No one stopped him. 19 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,801 Speaker 2: In Melbourne, there was Eloise Walladge in nineteen seventy six. 20 00:01:15,441 --> 00:01:18,481 Speaker 4: Aloise Wahlidge went to bed in her Beau Morris home 21 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy six and was never seen again. 22 00:01:22,761 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 5: And Carmen Chan in nineteen ninety one, thirteen. 23 00:01:26,121 --> 00:01:29,961 Speaker 4: Years old, snatched from her Templestowe home and never found. 24 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,601 Speaker 2: When one of these monsters is caught, it allows the 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 2: community a view into the blackness of their souls. Dieta 26 00:01:38,321 --> 00:01:41,641 Speaker 2: Fenig is serving a life sentence in South Australia for 27 00:01:41,721 --> 00:01:45,161 Speaker 2: the murders of two ten year olds, Louise Bell in 28 00:01:45,241 --> 00:01:48,641 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three and Michael Black in nineteen eighty nine. 29 00:01:49,401 --> 00:01:53,161 Speaker 2: He was arrested in the throes of another abduction and murder, 30 00:01:53,401 --> 00:01:56,561 Speaker 2: Otherwise his body count could have been much higher. 31 00:01:57,641 --> 00:02:01,441 Speaker 4: Just as Michael David found Fenig guilty and told him 32 00:02:01,641 --> 00:02:05,641 Speaker 4: this is the most evil of crimes, he urged to 33 00:02:05,681 --> 00:02:09,441 Speaker 4: reveal where the children were buried. Fennig showed no emotion 34 00:02:10,001 --> 00:02:12,201 Speaker 4: and he has never said where they are. 35 00:02:13,921 --> 00:02:17,041 Speaker 2: Author Michael Madigan has written a book about Fennick called 36 00:02:17,481 --> 00:02:22,441 Speaker 2: Father Teacher, Child Killer, The Abduction of Lawyers Belle and 37 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,641 Speaker 2: Michael Black and joined me now in the Real Crime 38 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:26,361 Speaker 2: Studio today. 39 00:02:26,361 --> 00:02:30,881 Speaker 1: Michael, Hi, Adam, how are you very well? 40 00:02:30,881 --> 00:02:32,641 Speaker 5: Thanks, make congratulations on the book. 41 00:02:32,881 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 2: It's no small enterprise being an independent author in Australia 42 00:02:37,281 --> 00:02:40,201 Speaker 2: in true crime. It's difficult. You've kept doing it. Congratulations 43 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,721 Speaker 2: to you. What sort of person is Dieta Fennig. 44 00:02:46,281 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: I think you could call him a saddest. 45 00:02:50,441 --> 00:02:54,281 Speaker 3: You could describe him as with pedophile tendencies. 46 00:02:55,121 --> 00:02:56,681 Speaker 1: He was a school teacher. 47 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 3: He originally came out to Australia with his family when 48 00:03:00,281 --> 00:03:02,601 Speaker 3: he was a young. 49 00:03:02,441 --> 00:03:03,881 Speaker 1: Boy, about twelve. 50 00:03:04,641 --> 00:03:10,721 Speaker 3: He he was very bright, he studied a lot at university. Yeah, 51 00:03:10,761 --> 00:03:13,961 Speaker 3: he was also a very active person. He was a 52 00:03:14,081 --> 00:03:17,841 Speaker 3: leading chess player. He was a father of two children, 53 00:03:18,921 --> 00:03:23,481 Speaker 3: and he was a respected person in the community. But 54 00:03:24,361 --> 00:03:28,721 Speaker 3: hiding under that veneer was a very evil man. He 55 00:03:28,841 --> 00:03:33,041 Speaker 3: had two sorts of life. He could be the good teacher, 56 00:03:33,121 --> 00:03:37,601 Speaker 3: he could be the entertaining person at the party. But 57 00:03:38,121 --> 00:03:43,041 Speaker 3: he had very, very evil fantasies in his head which 58 00:03:43,561 --> 00:03:45,001 Speaker 3: he basically carried out. 59 00:03:46,241 --> 00:03:49,641 Speaker 5: And he was able to hide and play in sight. 60 00:03:50,041 --> 00:03:53,921 Speaker 2: It always amazes me that these characters, they've often got 61 00:03:54,001 --> 00:03:57,561 Speaker 2: children of their own. It's hard to reconcile someone who 62 00:03:58,001 --> 00:04:01,161 Speaker 2: is a loving parent to their own children while abducting 63 00:04:01,201 --> 00:04:03,161 Speaker 2: and murdering the children of others. 64 00:04:03,921 --> 00:04:04,441 Speaker 1: Exactly. 65 00:04:04,921 --> 00:04:08,681 Speaker 3: I talked to one of his children, Petra she's a 66 00:04:08,721 --> 00:04:12,841 Speaker 3: wonderful woman. She actually gave evidence against him in the 67 00:04:12,921 --> 00:04:17,241 Speaker 3: Louise Bell trial. She told me that he was a 68 00:04:17,281 --> 00:04:20,761 Speaker 3: good father, which I couldn't believe at first, but then 69 00:04:20,801 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 3: I did some research and realized that they do live 70 00:04:25,281 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 3: to distinctive lives. 71 00:04:27,921 --> 00:04:29,601 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was a teacher. 72 00:04:29,641 --> 00:04:32,601 Speaker 3: But since the book has come out, there's been a 73 00:04:32,641 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 3: lot of feedback to me about what sort of person 74 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 3: he was as a teacher, and it wasn't very good. 75 00:04:40,161 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 3: He was aggressive, he was abusive verbally. He actually, at 76 00:04:47,401 --> 00:04:50,161 Speaker 3: one stays, he used to have a motorbike he used 77 00:04:50,201 --> 00:04:52,841 Speaker 3: to ride to school on one stage. The boys used 78 00:04:52,841 --> 00:04:55,921 Speaker 3: to muck around with it and put sticky tape and chewy. 79 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: On his bike. Somehow he rewired. 80 00:04:59,481 --> 00:05:03,361 Speaker 3: It so that anyone touched anything metal that'd get electric shock. 81 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,761 Speaker 3: All these things. But I think he was just very, 82 00:05:07,921 --> 00:05:13,841 Speaker 3: very clever, with terrible, terrible fantasies going inside his. 83 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:18,521 Speaker 2: Head and nothing on the surface that would give anyone 84 00:05:18,561 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 2: a clue of this secret life. 85 00:05:21,401 --> 00:05:23,481 Speaker 5: And it is astounding to me. 86 00:05:23,961 --> 00:05:28,241 Speaker 2: And let's look at Louise Bell January third, nineteen eighty three. 87 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,041 Speaker 2: She's sharing a bedroom with her sister Rachel, who's eight 88 00:05:32,721 --> 00:05:36,241 Speaker 2: they're really best friends and they're in the safety of 89 00:05:36,281 --> 00:05:36,841 Speaker 2: their home. 90 00:05:37,361 --> 00:05:38,041 Speaker 5: What happened? 91 00:05:38,841 --> 00:05:42,161 Speaker 3: Yeah, look, it was school holidays and in Adelaide it's 92 00:05:42,201 --> 00:05:46,521 Speaker 3: always very very hot. They had planned the next day 93 00:05:46,561 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 3: to go and see Et the movie. They were a 94 00:05:50,201 --> 00:05:54,841 Speaker 3: very close knit family. They did everything together. So that 95 00:05:55,041 --> 00:05:58,841 Speaker 3: night they showered and got ready for bed, and in 96 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,801 Speaker 3: those days without air conditioning, all the doors and windows 97 00:06:02,841 --> 00:06:05,881 Speaker 3: were open to let the sea breeze come through. So 98 00:06:06,801 --> 00:06:09,841 Speaker 3: the children eventually went to sleep around about nine o'clock. 99 00:06:10,641 --> 00:06:13,841 Speaker 3: During the night, nothing was heard. Missus Bell, Diane Bell, 100 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,001 Speaker 3: got up, did the usual things and she always checked 101 00:06:18,001 --> 00:06:21,801 Speaker 3: on the children in the morning and saw that Louise's 102 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,561 Speaker 3: bed was empty and that there was a quite a 103 00:06:25,601 --> 00:06:32,241 Speaker 3: big rip in the window material. Of course, she was 104 00:06:32,641 --> 00:06:37,401 Speaker 3: devastated and went looking and the husband follow crying out 105 00:06:37,481 --> 00:06:41,401 Speaker 3: for Louise, knocking on doors early in the morning, around 106 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 3: about seven o'clock, but Louise wasn't around, so they Mister 107 00:06:45,361 --> 00:06:49,681 Speaker 3: Bell had to do the unthinkable and ring police saying 108 00:06:49,721 --> 00:06:51,681 Speaker 3: that his daughter was missing. 109 00:06:52,761 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 5: I can stop you there. 110 00:06:54,161 --> 00:06:57,361 Speaker 2: I've seen this before where an abductor will choose one 111 00:06:57,481 --> 00:07:01,761 Speaker 2: child over another. There's Rachel, she's eight two years younger 112 00:07:01,801 --> 00:07:07,001 Speaker 2: than Louise the kidnapper saw her. Do you have any 113 00:07:07,001 --> 00:07:09,401 Speaker 2: insight into why she was chosen over Rachel. 114 00:07:10,961 --> 00:07:15,361 Speaker 3: Well, we found out later in twenty and fifteen sixteen 115 00:07:15,481 --> 00:07:21,041 Speaker 3: that Louise was friends with Petra, the daughter of diet 116 00:07:21,921 --> 00:07:24,961 Speaker 3: They were in the same class, they played in the 117 00:07:24,961 --> 00:07:30,401 Speaker 3: same basketball side, and there's witnesses that have come forward 118 00:07:30,601 --> 00:07:38,401 Speaker 3: that they saw Dieta walking home Petra and Louise after school. 119 00:07:38,961 --> 00:07:42,841 Speaker 3: So I think it's plain to see that he had 120 00:07:42,881 --> 00:07:45,641 Speaker 3: targeted Louise right. 121 00:07:45,681 --> 00:07:48,641 Speaker 2: So he had clearly he had seen her before and 122 00:07:48,681 --> 00:07:52,401 Speaker 2: he had foundasies about her. What strikes me also is 123 00:07:52,441 --> 00:07:55,121 Speaker 2: the rip in the fly screen in Louise's bedroom. It's 124 00:07:55,161 --> 00:07:59,241 Speaker 2: so similar to Eloise Wallage in Melbourne nineteen seventy six. 125 00:07:59,761 --> 00:08:02,681 Speaker 2: I wonder whether detectives initially thought, well, maybe this is 126 00:08:03,001 --> 00:08:05,961 Speaker 2: the same offender, different territory. 127 00:08:06,241 --> 00:08:06,681 Speaker 1: They did. 128 00:08:06,961 --> 00:08:10,801 Speaker 3: They contacted the Victorian police and got all the files 129 00:08:10,841 --> 00:08:14,281 Speaker 3: for that case. And what I'll discuss a little bit 130 00:08:14,361 --> 00:08:19,601 Speaker 3: later was that Dieter Finick, when he had abducted Louise, 131 00:08:20,161 --> 00:08:24,241 Speaker 3: he actually rang a neighbor and he told the neighbor, 132 00:08:24,601 --> 00:08:27,561 Speaker 3: I'm the abductor of Louise Bell, can you give me 133 00:08:27,641 --> 00:08:32,201 Speaker 3: some help? She's got a medical emergency. And when he 134 00:08:32,281 --> 00:08:36,601 Speaker 3: asked the neighbor, he actually said Eloise is in trouble 135 00:08:36,681 --> 00:08:42,121 Speaker 3: instead of Louise. So it does make you think about 136 00:08:42,321 --> 00:08:48,121 Speaker 3: how many children did end up killing all at least 137 00:08:48,161 --> 00:08:49,321 Speaker 3: abducting shocking. 138 00:08:50,121 --> 00:08:50,801 Speaker 1: Whether he was. 139 00:08:50,761 --> 00:08:54,521 Speaker 3: Playing games or not, it's quite chilling that he mixed 140 00:08:54,561 --> 00:08:59,121 Speaker 3: up the names of another abducted girl. I think Eloise 141 00:08:59,281 --> 00:09:03,281 Speaker 3: was around about ten at the time. So in the 142 00:09:03,361 --> 00:09:06,041 Speaker 3: last piece of my book, I do make reference to 143 00:09:06,401 --> 00:09:10,441 Speaker 3: Ploise because nothing much has been written about her. And 144 00:09:11,521 --> 00:09:16,521 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four there was a major inquiry into 145 00:09:16,881 --> 00:09:19,401 Speaker 3: the school that she went to, and there they found 146 00:09:19,401 --> 00:09:23,921 Speaker 3: there was a number of pedophiles actively at that school. 147 00:09:24,481 --> 00:09:26,121 Speaker 5: Correct, I'll do that. I'm gonna do that. 148 00:09:26,161 --> 00:09:28,121 Speaker 2: In a separate episode, Eloise was eight. 149 00:09:28,081 --> 00:09:28,641 Speaker 5: At the time. 150 00:09:28,881 --> 00:09:32,281 Speaker 2: It's a little bit younger, but the similarities were striking, 151 00:09:32,441 --> 00:09:36,681 Speaker 2: and you wonder whether he's seen the publicity around that 152 00:09:37,201 --> 00:09:40,401 Speaker 2: and thought that's the modus operando that I can adopt. 153 00:09:40,441 --> 00:09:43,081 Speaker 5: And he was extraordinarily successful. 154 00:09:43,241 --> 00:09:46,241 Speaker 2: No one in the home heard anything, not even Rachel 155 00:09:46,281 --> 00:09:49,761 Speaker 2: in the same room into the night with Louise, and 156 00:09:49,801 --> 00:09:54,401 Speaker 2: what followed was the largest manhunt search in South Australia's history. 157 00:09:54,481 --> 00:09:58,961 Speaker 2: It turns up nothing but ten days after the kidnapping. 158 00:09:59,241 --> 00:10:03,361 Speaker 3: What happened, Well, the first thing that happened was mister 159 00:10:03,401 --> 00:10:08,841 Speaker 3: Bell and Diane and were sleeping eleven o'clock at night 160 00:10:08,881 --> 00:10:13,281 Speaker 3: and the phone rang, and so mister Bell rushed the phone, thinking, 161 00:10:13,961 --> 00:10:16,481 Speaker 3: goodness me, this could be it, this could be good news. 162 00:10:17,241 --> 00:10:21,481 Speaker 3: But when he answered the phone, the caller said that 163 00:10:21,561 --> 00:10:25,361 Speaker 3: I've got your daughter and I need thirty thousand dollars 164 00:10:25,441 --> 00:10:28,641 Speaker 3: to return her and if you don't do that, bang 165 00:10:28,761 --> 00:10:33,761 Speaker 3: she's dead. Poor old mister bearl was devastated and could 166 00:10:33,841 --> 00:10:37,841 Speaker 3: hardly get a reply, and the caller hung up. So 167 00:10:38,401 --> 00:10:43,641 Speaker 3: mister Bell phoned the police and fortunately they were already 168 00:10:43,641 --> 00:10:47,721 Speaker 3: onto it. They had tapped the phone, so they went 169 00:10:47,801 --> 00:10:51,201 Speaker 3: around to the person's place, but there was no Louise. 170 00:10:51,281 --> 00:10:51,841 Speaker 1: It was just. 171 00:10:51,841 --> 00:10:57,961 Speaker 3: A terrible, disgusting criminal at he had nothing to do. 172 00:10:58,881 --> 00:11:02,281 Speaker 2: An extortion attempt effectively like a petty criminal who's decided 173 00:11:02,281 --> 00:11:04,121 Speaker 2: to cash in on their misery. 174 00:11:04,361 --> 00:11:06,841 Speaker 5: This happens time and time again. There's some I mean, 175 00:11:06,881 --> 00:11:07,441 Speaker 5: it's one. 176 00:11:07,241 --> 00:11:09,921 Speaker 2: Thing to abduct a child, but then to then if 177 00:11:09,921 --> 00:11:11,761 Speaker 2: you haven't done it and get involved like that. 178 00:11:12,041 --> 00:11:15,081 Speaker 5: It just rubs salt into the wounds of a family, 179 00:11:15,241 --> 00:11:16,041 Speaker 5: like the bells. 180 00:11:16,761 --> 00:11:20,801 Speaker 2: And then, as you said, three days later, Dieta calls 181 00:11:20,881 --> 00:11:21,361 Speaker 2: the neighbor. 182 00:11:21,841 --> 00:11:24,721 Speaker 3: Yeah, he calls the neighbor and he said, you know, 183 00:11:24,921 --> 00:11:28,281 Speaker 3: she's got an injury. And the neighbor didn't know Louise. 184 00:11:29,041 --> 00:11:32,201 Speaker 3: By the way, Dieta lived about ten minutes from Louise 185 00:11:32,481 --> 00:11:36,521 Speaker 3: in the same suburb, Hackham West, So he rang up 186 00:11:36,561 --> 00:11:40,601 Speaker 3: this neighbor and the neighbor was shot to hear that 187 00:11:40,681 --> 00:11:42,321 Speaker 3: it wasn't Louise's asthma. 188 00:11:42,681 --> 00:11:46,081 Speaker 1: It was another injury, which I don't mention in the book. 189 00:11:46,641 --> 00:11:49,881 Speaker 3: And he said, look, I need you to contact the 190 00:11:49,921 --> 00:11:55,561 Speaker 3: newspaper and Channel nine. He was looking for publicity. He 191 00:11:55,761 --> 00:11:58,761 Speaker 3: was playing with police. He said the police were rubbish. 192 00:11:59,441 --> 00:12:03,081 Speaker 3: They didn't see this, they didn't do that. And the 193 00:12:03,161 --> 00:12:05,761 Speaker 3: neighbor said, look, how do I know that you are 194 00:12:06,521 --> 00:12:07,201 Speaker 3: the abductor? 195 00:12:07,281 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: You could be anybody. 196 00:12:09,121 --> 00:12:12,561 Speaker 3: He said, well, if the police go to the corner 197 00:12:12,601 --> 00:12:17,721 Speaker 3: of South Road and Doctor's Road, there's a rock, and 198 00:12:17,801 --> 00:12:22,761 Speaker 3: under that rock you'll find Louise's ear rings, which was 199 00:12:22,841 --> 00:12:23,561 Speaker 3: pretty chilling. 200 00:12:24,441 --> 00:12:26,041 Speaker 1: So the police went around there. 201 00:12:26,521 --> 00:12:31,201 Speaker 3: Sure enough, there were a pair of earrings, and again 202 00:12:31,281 --> 00:12:34,321 Speaker 3: they had to go to the Bell family and mister 203 00:12:34,361 --> 00:12:39,841 Speaker 3: Bell cradled them in his hands while he was crying, 204 00:12:40,161 --> 00:12:44,281 Speaker 3: and he said, yes, they are Louise's because he saw 205 00:12:44,361 --> 00:12:48,441 Speaker 3: a mark on them that he had repaired. So their 206 00:12:48,441 --> 00:12:51,361 Speaker 3: devastation was just going from one bad thing to another. 207 00:12:52,321 --> 00:12:56,681 Speaker 2: So he's rubbing it in. There's lost this tragedy, and 208 00:12:56,921 --> 00:13:01,001 Speaker 2: it seems likely. I'd imagine that Louise was already dead 209 00:13:01,201 --> 00:13:02,241 Speaker 2: at this point. 210 00:13:02,721 --> 00:13:04,481 Speaker 1: I believe so. I believe. 211 00:13:04,561 --> 00:13:11,201 Speaker 3: So we don't know anything about that, but you'd imagine 212 00:13:11,361 --> 00:13:15,681 Speaker 3: he was at home and his wife and children were away. 213 00:13:15,801 --> 00:13:20,161 Speaker 3: He came back from a canoeing trip early, so he 214 00:13:20,241 --> 00:13:23,241 Speaker 3: had the home to himself for a number of days. 215 00:13:24,281 --> 00:13:29,361 Speaker 2: Right, And so in February, police go again, second round 216 00:13:29,361 --> 00:13:30,481 Speaker 2: of door knocks and things. 217 00:13:30,801 --> 00:13:32,521 Speaker 5: Nothing is really coming up. 218 00:13:33,121 --> 00:13:38,241 Speaker 3: Yeah, the police decided to change the detectives and appoint 219 00:13:38,241 --> 00:13:41,601 Speaker 3: Detective White, and he was very, very a real copper, 220 00:13:41,761 --> 00:13:45,361 Speaker 3: always going with procedure. He saw holes in the way 221 00:13:45,441 --> 00:13:49,961 Speaker 3: that the first door knocking went. So he gave every 222 00:13:50,361 --> 00:13:53,681 Speaker 3: officer a list of fifteen questions to ask and if 223 00:13:53,721 --> 00:13:58,001 Speaker 3: anyone wasn't home anyone, they would be checked again. 224 00:13:58,161 --> 00:14:01,201 Speaker 1: So they didn't just do Hacken West. 225 00:14:00,921 --> 00:14:05,481 Speaker 3: They did suburbs to the northeast, west and south, so 226 00:14:05,561 --> 00:14:06,721 Speaker 3: it was quite extensive. 227 00:14:08,561 --> 00:14:08,761 Speaker 5: Yeah. 228 00:14:08,761 --> 00:14:11,601 Speaker 2: Well, typically without a motive and a suspect, this door 229 00:14:11,641 --> 00:14:14,481 Speaker 2: knocking is sometimes just being busy for the sake of 230 00:14:14,561 --> 00:14:18,401 Speaker 2: being busy. It doesn't necessarily give you any particular leads. 231 00:14:18,721 --> 00:14:22,041 Speaker 2: But February twenty eight, something really important was turned up 232 00:14:22,321 --> 00:14:25,361 Speaker 2: that it looked like it was Louise's pajama top was 233 00:14:25,401 --> 00:14:27,441 Speaker 2: found in someone's front garden. 234 00:14:28,401 --> 00:14:30,841 Speaker 1: Yeah, would you believe it was the neighbor that he 235 00:14:30,921 --> 00:14:31,641 Speaker 1: had called? 236 00:14:32,361 --> 00:14:33,001 Speaker 5: You're joking. 237 00:14:33,641 --> 00:14:38,641 Speaker 3: Yeah, So the neighbor was taking her son to school 238 00:14:38,681 --> 00:14:42,201 Speaker 3: and noticed a bit of clothing neatly folded on the 239 00:14:42,241 --> 00:14:46,281 Speaker 3: corner of their property. Anyway, when she returned, she thought, oh, 240 00:14:46,321 --> 00:14:48,721 Speaker 3: I better pick this up, and she's about to put 241 00:14:48,801 --> 00:14:51,521 Speaker 3: in the bend, but thought, no, it looks too good. 242 00:14:51,921 --> 00:14:54,041 Speaker 3: So she took it inside and had a good look. 243 00:14:54,961 --> 00:15:01,961 Speaker 3: And she looked and thought size ten, this could be Louise's. 244 00:15:03,121 --> 00:15:07,801 Speaker 3: And so she rang the pleae and explained the floral design, 245 00:15:08,441 --> 00:15:11,801 Speaker 3: and the police said were coming straight away. So the 246 00:15:11,841 --> 00:15:17,201 Speaker 3: first detective to arrive was Detective Strange, and he put 247 00:15:17,241 --> 00:15:19,361 Speaker 3: it to his nose and he could smell an odor 248 00:15:19,761 --> 00:15:25,361 Speaker 3: like a fishy smell. And again they had to go 249 00:15:25,441 --> 00:15:28,321 Speaker 3: to the Bell family to make sure that it was Louise's, 250 00:15:28,361 --> 00:15:32,721 Speaker 3: and again mister Bell said that he had cut the 251 00:15:32,761 --> 00:15:35,201 Speaker 3: tag off the back of the neck because it was 252 00:15:35,281 --> 00:15:39,281 Speaker 3: irritating Louise. So it was definitely Louisa's. And that top 253 00:15:39,441 --> 00:15:44,041 Speaker 3: was taken to forensics, and what they got from it 254 00:15:44,121 --> 00:15:48,641 Speaker 3: was very interesting. Some of the debris from the top 255 00:15:49,121 --> 00:15:54,401 Speaker 3: it had been dunked in the nearby Onkaparinga River, which 256 00:15:54,481 --> 00:15:57,681 Speaker 3: is about two kilometers from their home, so it had 257 00:15:57,721 --> 00:16:02,481 Speaker 3: been dunked in the river and then washed with normal 258 00:16:02,561 --> 00:16:06,961 Speaker 3: tap water. So that gave something for police to look at. 259 00:16:07,081 --> 00:16:09,321 Speaker 3: So there was a big search of that. There was 260 00:16:09,361 --> 00:16:12,961 Speaker 3: only one particular area of the river and so a 261 00:16:13,041 --> 00:16:16,921 Speaker 3: large search for two weeks where divers were diving in 262 00:16:17,201 --> 00:16:21,041 Speaker 3: the muddy waters, and unfortunately nothing was turned up. 263 00:16:21,721 --> 00:16:23,921 Speaker 2: Right, because you'd have to say on the face of 264 00:16:23,961 --> 00:16:26,801 Speaker 2: that that you've got something that's been dunked in a river, 265 00:16:27,401 --> 00:16:29,961 Speaker 2: then washed and left in the neighbour's front guard. 266 00:16:30,001 --> 00:16:32,641 Speaker 5: This is a red herring being laid by the killer. 267 00:16:32,841 --> 00:16:35,881 Speaker 1: I'd imagine, Yeah, he was just playing a cat and 268 00:16:35,961 --> 00:16:37,041 Speaker 1: mouse with the police. 269 00:16:37,641 --> 00:16:40,401 Speaker 3: As soon as there wasn't anything in the media, he 270 00:16:40,441 --> 00:16:46,761 Speaker 3: had try something else. But that particular forensic officer did 271 00:16:46,801 --> 00:16:49,841 Speaker 3: a very very good job. In those days, they used 272 00:16:49,841 --> 00:16:53,161 Speaker 3: to use sticky tape and they go around the hole 273 00:16:53,281 --> 00:16:57,561 Speaker 3: of the garment and take whatever was on the and 274 00:16:57,601 --> 00:17:00,161 Speaker 3: they put it into a petri dish and they kept 275 00:17:00,201 --> 00:17:03,481 Speaker 3: it as a perhaps some sort of evidence down the 276 00:17:03,521 --> 00:17:09,321 Speaker 3: track the pajama top, and it was just getting very bizarre. 277 00:17:10,120 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that forensic evidence did lead police to another suspect, 278 00:17:16,321 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 2: fellow called Raymond John Geesing, who had a history of 279 00:17:19,961 --> 00:17:23,801 Speaker 2: sex offenses, and he had some sneakers in his car 280 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 2: which had matching debris as they'd found on Luis's pajama top. 281 00:17:28,721 --> 00:17:32,521 Speaker 2: So that was the main evidence against him, and he 282 00:17:32,721 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 2: was arrested in charge. 283 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 5: He was already in prison. 284 00:17:34,721 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 3: Though he was he was under child sex offenses. His 285 00:17:39,441 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 3: shoes weren't just found in his car, they were actually 286 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 3: hidden hit in a very good spot. But the detective 287 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,321 Speaker 3: fortunately had the same car and he knew all the 288 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:54,201 Speaker 3: ins and outs of the vehicle, so the debris came 289 00:17:54,281 --> 00:17:57,281 Speaker 3: from that particular area for sure. It was one hundred 290 00:17:57,281 --> 00:18:02,481 Speaker 3: percent but Geesing said, look, that's my fishing area. So 291 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,761 Speaker 3: he did have sort of an excuse for having that 292 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,481 Speaker 3: on his sand shoes. And another thing that didn't come 293 00:18:10,561 --> 00:18:14,521 Speaker 3: up in court, but I talked to one of the detectives. 294 00:18:15,241 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 3: The detective look, they take any sort of incoming evidence 295 00:18:20,001 --> 00:18:24,041 Speaker 3: or incoming material. So he was told to go to 296 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 3: a place where when Giesing was kicked out of his home, 297 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 3: they got rid of all the furniture, and so he 298 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 3: had to chase up all the furniture just in case 299 00:18:34,321 --> 00:18:37,961 Speaker 3: there was evidence. And he got to this place and 300 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,881 Speaker 3: there was an old cabinet and it's going through everything. 301 00:18:42,961 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 3: It was just old newspapers and tucked into one of 302 00:18:45,761 --> 00:18:50,561 Speaker 3: the sides hidden was a newspaper, the Truth newspaper, and 303 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:55,281 Speaker 3: it was a special lift out on the Eloise Woolich case, 304 00:18:56,441 --> 00:19:01,041 Speaker 3: which makes I think it must have made the police think, hmm, 305 00:19:01,201 --> 00:19:04,041 Speaker 3: this is very interesting that it was never brought up 306 00:19:04,041 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 3: in trial. So Gesing was charged, went to court, and 307 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:14,121 Speaker 3: then on the following court hearing, he didn't look anything 308 00:19:14,201 --> 00:19:18,801 Speaker 3: like he used to. He had been bashed terribly in jail. 309 00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:23,601 Speaker 3: In those days, they didn't separate the Charles six offenders 310 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,441 Speaker 3: with the main prisoners. 311 00:19:25,801 --> 00:19:27,761 Speaker 2: Right, some people might say that should be brought back 312 00:19:27,801 --> 00:19:30,041 Speaker 2: in actually, and they get off too easily in protection 313 00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:33,001 Speaker 2: and so forth. But so he got bashed and he's 314 00:19:33,001 --> 00:19:34,601 Speaker 2: found guilty of the abduction and. 315 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:35,441 Speaker 5: Murder of Louise. 316 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:40,761 Speaker 2: I wonder though, when you look at how clever Fennige is, 317 00:19:40,761 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 2: is he aware of Gesing's habit of fishing on the 318 00:19:43,241 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 2: Oquaparinga River. Is it possible that he framed him? Am 319 00:19:46,761 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: I getting into the wild area of speculation? 320 00:19:50,561 --> 00:19:55,441 Speaker 3: That is certainly speculation, But two things. Fennig and Geesing 321 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:01,681 Speaker 3: were both members of the Army Reserve, and Fenick was 322 00:20:01,921 --> 00:20:06,521 Speaker 3: also a fisherman, and he also fished in around that area. 323 00:20:06,521 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 3: I don't know if they knew each other, but they 324 00:20:08,721 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 3: were both lived very close to Luise Bell. 325 00:20:11,961 --> 00:20:14,081 Speaker 1: In fact, Geeseing was just around the corner. 326 00:20:15,201 --> 00:20:17,001 Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to say that's a line of inquiry, 327 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 2: given how clever and he is. But of course the 328 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,921 Speaker 2: crown relied upon statements from other prisoners to convict him, 329 00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:28,041 Speaker 2: and then he gets found guilty. But shortly after the trial, 330 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,761 Speaker 2: one of the prisoner's contacts are detective and says I 331 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 2: lied in court. So the whole thing blows up and 332 00:20:33,681 --> 00:20:37,281 Speaker 2: Geesing is set free. This must have been a terrible 333 00:20:37,321 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 2: moment for the police and the family because they're back 334 00:20:40,561 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 2: to square one. They've got nobody, they've got no suspect, 335 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,161 Speaker 2: and the whole thing goes completely quiet up to five years. 336 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,121 Speaker 3: I talked to the detective who received that phone call, 337 00:20:51,281 --> 00:20:56,681 Speaker 3: and this prisoner said, look, let's meet at the Adelaide markets. 338 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: And he thought, well, that's strange. Perhaps he's got a 339 00:21:00,241 --> 00:21:00,801 Speaker 1: tip for me. 340 00:21:00,921 --> 00:21:02,881 Speaker 3: So he went to the markets and as soon as 341 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 3: he saw the witness, he knew something was up. And 342 00:21:06,561 --> 00:21:10,601 Speaker 3: so the detective talked to the prisoner that had been 343 00:21:10,761 --> 00:21:14,401 Speaker 3: just released and he admitted to the detective that he 344 00:21:14,481 --> 00:21:18,761 Speaker 3: lied in court, and the other prisoners did as well. 345 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 2: Right, so the whole thing is back at square one, 346 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,041 Speaker 2: and you know, they're out of ideas. And then six 347 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 2: years after Louise goes missing, ten year old Michael Black 348 00:21:28,481 --> 00:21:31,561 Speaker 2: is that Murray Bridge, seventy five kilometers from Adelaide. He's 349 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,281 Speaker 2: on his bicycle there, going out as kids did back then, 350 00:21:34,321 --> 00:21:37,921 Speaker 2: to go fishing, and he disappears as well. Was there 351 00:21:37,921 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 2: any connection drawn at the beginning between his case and Louise. 352 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,241 Speaker 3: Well, this is an interesting one. It was a big 353 00:21:45,321 --> 00:21:48,281 Speaker 3: day for Michael. This is the first day that he 354 00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:51,521 Speaker 3: was going to go fishing by himself without his father. 355 00:21:52,281 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 3: His father told him, please do not cross the bridge 356 00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:00,521 Speaker 3: because it's dangerous, and be back by four o'clock. So 357 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,321 Speaker 3: Michael went down to the river and he was spotted 358 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:08,001 Speaker 3: a couple of times, and so at four point fifteen 359 00:22:08,001 --> 00:22:10,441 Speaker 3: and four point thirty the father decided to go down 360 00:22:10,441 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 3: and have a look for Michael. And he drove around 361 00:22:14,561 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 3: and as you can imagine, he was getting more and 362 00:22:16,761 --> 00:22:21,921 Speaker 3: more anxious, and so he went home rang the police said. Look, 363 00:22:21,921 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 3: this is not like Michael. He wouldn't disobey me like this. 364 00:22:26,241 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 3: So the police said, okay, stay at home. We're onto it, 365 00:22:30,481 --> 00:22:34,001 Speaker 3: and they sent a couple of cars looking for Michael. 366 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:37,761 Speaker 3: And at about six point thirty the police rang the father, 367 00:22:38,321 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 3: mister Black, and they said, we've found Michael's gear the 368 00:22:42,921 --> 00:22:48,001 Speaker 3: other side of the bridge. His shorts and thongs and 369 00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:51,521 Speaker 3: fishing gear was all neatly packed near the edge of 370 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:52,001 Speaker 3: the water. 371 00:22:52,721 --> 00:22:56,081 Speaker 1: And mister Black said, no, that's not Michael. 372 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,481 Speaker 3: He's not neat at all and he would never disobey 373 00:23:00,521 --> 00:23:01,721 Speaker 3: me and cross the bridge. 374 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: So the police. 375 00:23:04,281 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 3: Divers were brought in from Adelaide. They had a remarkable 376 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 3: record of drownings. I think out of one hundred and 377 00:23:12,721 --> 00:23:16,761 Speaker 3: twenty five drownings in the Murray, they recovered one hundred 378 00:23:16,761 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 3: and twenty three. So it was if Michael did drown 379 00:23:21,681 --> 00:23:25,801 Speaker 3: there was a good possibility that he would eventually be found. 380 00:23:27,801 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 2: Now the police did have a witness because there was 381 00:23:32,961 --> 00:23:35,281 Speaker 2: a couple of witnesses came and told the police they'd 382 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 2: seen Michael talking to a man in a VW Combie 383 00:23:38,761 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 2: van and this guy was about five to ten with 384 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,001 Speaker 2: a thick mustache, which sounds a lot like Dta Fennig. 385 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,641 Speaker 2: Do you think that they were describing Fennigh at that. 386 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,001 Speaker 1: Time they were. 387 00:23:49,801 --> 00:23:53,241 Speaker 3: What happened was there was another drowning of a boy 388 00:23:53,441 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 3: very similar age who was recovered in the Murray and 389 00:23:57,241 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 3: so police sort of thought, well, perhaps it was a 390 00:24:00,281 --> 00:24:03,041 Speaker 3: drowning and the case was handed over to the local 391 00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:07,721 Speaker 3: cop at murray Bridge and went about things very diligently 392 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 3: and got a timeline of what Michael was up to 393 00:24:11,761 --> 00:24:16,001 Speaker 3: and also the leading up to that date. There was 394 00:24:16,041 --> 00:24:21,921 Speaker 3: one man who saw this mustached guy, obviously diet Finic, 395 00:24:22,521 --> 00:24:26,481 Speaker 3: and he asked this guy, Finick said, have you got 396 00:24:26,521 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 3: any areas that you can go swimming in the nude? 397 00:24:31,961 --> 00:24:34,521 Speaker 1: That raised a bit of alarm. And then there was. 398 00:24:34,481 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 3: Two children the day before playing with Dieta Finic in 399 00:24:39,801 --> 00:24:44,881 Speaker 3: the waters and Dieta invited them over to his combi van. 400 00:24:45,921 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 3: Luckily the children didn't accept invitation. So de Defenick was 401 00:24:52,481 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 3: not looked as a suspect. He was just not on 402 00:24:55,281 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 3: the radar. Perhaps he should have been, because what I 403 00:24:59,241 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 3: haven't discussed yet is he had a couple of issues 404 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 3: with He described it as fondling boys. Never went to court, 405 00:25:10,521 --> 00:25:13,521 Speaker 3: and there was also a case in ninety eighty five 406 00:25:14,721 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 3: which showed up in my investigations. He was actually charged 407 00:25:19,721 --> 00:25:25,241 Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty five with rape and sexual assault and 408 00:25:25,321 --> 00:25:28,561 Speaker 3: I never found out what that was about until last 409 00:25:28,681 --> 00:25:34,401 Speaker 3: year when I bumped into a person, a neighbor of Phoenix, 410 00:25:34,521 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 3: and he told me that Foenick was caught with a 411 00:25:37,441 --> 00:25:43,881 Speaker 3: young boy in the young boy's garage. I won't describe anything, 412 00:25:43,961 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 3: but the mother came out and found them and she 413 00:25:47,921 --> 00:25:52,681 Speaker 3: was hysterical, and when it came to court, she had 414 00:25:52,721 --> 00:25:58,281 Speaker 3: been admitted to a mental health place to because she 415 00:25:58,321 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 3: couldn't give evidence. So he got off in only eighty 416 00:26:01,681 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 3: five Michael Black could still be here. Yeah. 417 00:26:05,761 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 5: That's chilling, isn't it. 418 00:26:06,761 --> 00:26:11,321 Speaker 2: And particularly these days, someone like that draw a flag 419 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,441 Speaker 2: straight away when a case like Michael's would come up, 420 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 2: and he would have been scooped up in questioned, but 421 00:26:17,921 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 2: he wasn't. And you know, he's so confident, this guy Finnig. 422 00:26:21,441 --> 00:26:23,801 Speaker 2: And it's remarkable when your book you described the fact 423 00:26:23,801 --> 00:26:26,721 Speaker 2: that the Sunday after Michael goes missing, he's at the 424 00:26:26,801 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 2: kitchen table with his family and he smiled at the 425 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 2: photo of Michael in the paper and said to his wife, 426 00:26:33,201 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 2: I saw this boy when I was there earlier in 427 00:26:35,241 --> 00:26:37,961 Speaker 2: the week. Do you think I should contact police? It's 428 00:26:38,001 --> 00:26:38,801 Speaker 2: so bold. 429 00:26:40,241 --> 00:26:42,321 Speaker 3: Yeah, And he says, oh, look, you couldn't miss him 430 00:26:42,321 --> 00:26:45,441 Speaker 3: because you know, Michael wore this color shirt at the time. 431 00:26:45,561 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 3: And he then became obsessed with Michael's case. He was 432 00:26:50,481 --> 00:26:53,321 Speaker 3: a canoeist, a very good canoeist, and he used to 433 00:26:53,681 --> 00:26:58,321 Speaker 3: row around the Murray River with a friend and he 434 00:26:58,481 --> 00:27:04,041 Speaker 3: stopped at the place where Michael's belongings were found, and 435 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,881 Speaker 3: he actually camped for the night, and anyone who would ask, 436 00:27:08,001 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 3: he'd says, yeah, I saw Michael He was sort of 437 00:27:12,321 --> 00:27:15,001 Speaker 3: playing it up a bit, just like he was with 438 00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:18,561 Speaker 3: Louise Bell. He was telling people that he was actually 439 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,481 Speaker 3: a suspect at one stage, which he wasn't. So he 440 00:27:23,561 --> 00:27:26,281 Speaker 3: was enjoying beating the police. 441 00:27:26,761 --> 00:27:30,241 Speaker 2: And giving people a sense, giving people some opportunity to 442 00:27:30,761 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 2: suspect him again, because the thing is an offender like this, 443 00:27:35,241 --> 00:27:38,761 Speaker 2: almost wants people to know how clever he is. Yes, 444 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 2: but he then makes a big mistake, doesn't he, Because 445 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,721 Speaker 2: he then tries to subduct a thirteen year old boy 446 00:27:44,761 --> 00:27:49,201 Speaker 2: you've called Jason at Port Ullanger, a coastal suburban adelaide. 447 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 5: What happened in that case? 448 00:27:51,481 --> 00:27:55,321 Speaker 3: Yes, well, this is the turning point in Fennix's life. 449 00:27:55,921 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 3: It was the thirtieth of January of the same year 450 00:27:59,001 --> 00:28:04,681 Speaker 3: that he abducted and killed Michael Black. So this little 451 00:28:04,721 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 3: boy was trialing out his friend's bike. You know, he 452 00:28:09,321 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 3: was speeding down the slopes and he was hot. 453 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: It was a hot day. 454 00:28:13,961 --> 00:28:19,001 Speaker 3: So he skidded to a stop near Delhi, and across 455 00:28:19,041 --> 00:28:24,361 Speaker 3: the road was Fennick and his combi van, and Phinnick 456 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,681 Speaker 3: asked the boy, please come over. I've lost my keys 457 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 3: down a little place in between the seats you know, 458 00:28:32,041 --> 00:28:34,360 Speaker 3: he raised his hands and said, look, my hands are 459 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 3: too big. 460 00:28:35,281 --> 00:28:35,961 Speaker 1: Could your help? 461 00:28:36,481 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 3: And the boy hesitated, thinking this is a stranger, you know, 462 00:28:40,841 --> 00:28:44,921 Speaker 3: Mum's always told me don't talk to strangers. But then 463 00:28:45,041 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 3: Fennick used his teacher voice and raised it and the 464 00:28:49,481 --> 00:28:55,201 Speaker 3: boy was obedient and came over to help Fannick. And 465 00:28:55,641 --> 00:28:59,601 Speaker 3: within sixty seconds he had already gagged him and hog 466 00:28:59,681 --> 00:29:04,321 Speaker 3: tied him, thrown him in the van, and grabbed his 467 00:29:04,361 --> 00:29:08,001 Speaker 3: bike and put that in the van and sped away. 468 00:29:09,601 --> 00:29:12,321 Speaker 2: I guess, cognizant of the fact that he'd left Michael's 469 00:29:12,361 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 2: gear behind, which was a risk for him, which ultimately 470 00:29:16,521 --> 00:29:20,401 Speaker 2: would be very important what he left behind on Michael's clothes. 471 00:29:20,841 --> 00:29:25,321 Speaker 2: So then you start to see the entire mo of 472 00:29:25,441 --> 00:29:31,681 Speaker 2: Fennig where he sexually abuses poor Jason, keeps him there, overnight, 473 00:29:32,081 --> 00:29:35,241 Speaker 2: ties him to a chair, He was bathed by Fennig. 474 00:29:35,641 --> 00:29:38,801 Speaker 2: You're seeing the whole range of this guy's sick fantasies 475 00:29:38,801 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 2: being played out. 476 00:29:40,481 --> 00:29:41,041 Speaker 1: That's right. 477 00:29:41,161 --> 00:29:47,041 Speaker 3: He took Jason and he actually asked, Jason, I want 478 00:29:47,081 --> 00:29:50,721 Speaker 3: thirty thousand dollars from your father. No, it was forty 479 00:29:50,761 --> 00:29:53,641 Speaker 3: thousand dollars. Can he afford it? And a little boy 480 00:29:53,761 --> 00:29:56,721 Speaker 3: was just crying. He said, no, my father's a pensionner. 481 00:29:57,241 --> 00:30:00,761 Speaker 3: What about ten thousand, I've got an accomplice. He was 482 00:30:00,841 --> 00:30:03,281 Speaker 3: making this up as he was going along. I'm sure 483 00:30:03,321 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 3: he didn't have an accomplice, but he was just again, 484 00:30:06,361 --> 00:30:10,921 Speaker 3: he was living out a fantasy, and so he kept 485 00:30:11,361 --> 00:30:15,801 Speaker 3: the boy captive until it got dark. At this stage, 486 00:30:16,601 --> 00:30:19,881 Speaker 3: his wife and kids had left him, and so he 487 00:30:19,961 --> 00:30:21,281 Speaker 3: had the home to himself. 488 00:30:21,401 --> 00:30:24,121 Speaker 2: As you said, they'd left him. 489 00:30:24,361 --> 00:30:26,481 Speaker 5: So, yeah, his marriage was over. 490 00:30:26,961 --> 00:30:29,961 Speaker 3: The marriage was over. Actually, the marriage was over soon 491 00:30:30,041 --> 00:30:33,841 Speaker 3: after Michael Black went missing. It was coming to an end. 492 00:30:35,081 --> 00:30:35,641 Speaker 1: As you said. 493 00:30:35,681 --> 00:30:38,641 Speaker 3: He was tied to a chair and fed boiled carrots. 494 00:30:39,321 --> 00:30:42,761 Speaker 3: He was then taken to the bath and bathes like 495 00:30:43,041 --> 00:30:46,321 Speaker 3: an infant. And that night Fennick said to the boy, 496 00:30:46,921 --> 00:30:49,281 Speaker 3: would you like me to tie you up in bed 497 00:30:50,321 --> 00:30:54,321 Speaker 3: or take these tablets? And the boy was thinking, gee, 498 00:30:54,521 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 3: I don't really want to take tablets, but Fennick just 499 00:30:57,601 --> 00:31:01,561 Speaker 3: threw them down his throat and they slept. I'm not 500 00:31:01,601 --> 00:31:06,801 Speaker 3: sure what happened, but next morning Fennick was nicotine attic 501 00:31:07,441 --> 00:31:11,801 Speaker 3: and he'd run out a cigarette, so he went tied 502 00:31:11,841 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 3: the boy up again to the chair, and he actually 503 00:31:15,801 --> 00:31:18,761 Speaker 3: told the boy, I've got a big dog. If you move, 504 00:31:19,081 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 3: he's going to eat you up. Anyway, the boy was 505 00:31:23,561 --> 00:31:27,961 Speaker 3: frantic and started to try to untangle the knots that 506 00:31:28,321 --> 00:31:31,881 Speaker 3: Finnick had done. And look, Phennick was very good with 507 00:31:32,201 --> 00:31:34,521 Speaker 3: There's actually a photo in the book this is how 508 00:31:35,641 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 3: different times were. In the school book, the end of 509 00:31:39,281 --> 00:31:42,841 Speaker 3: year book, they had a photo of Fennig. He had 510 00:31:42,921 --> 00:31:45,841 Speaker 3: tied up a boy and was leading this boy tied 511 00:31:45,961 --> 00:31:50,041 Speaker 3: up in rope, and so he knew what knots were. 512 00:31:50,121 --> 00:31:53,401 Speaker 3: But this little boy was determined. He kept moving his 513 00:31:53,481 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 3: little wrists and of course it was abrasive. He was 514 00:31:58,321 --> 00:32:01,481 Speaker 3: starting to bleed in his hands, but he felt it 515 00:32:01,601 --> 00:32:04,081 Speaker 3: come a little bit loose, so he just tried harder 516 00:32:04,121 --> 00:32:08,681 Speaker 3: and harder, and before too much longer, he got out 517 00:32:08,681 --> 00:32:14,601 Speaker 3: of the knots, untied his ankles and ran for the door. 518 00:32:14,721 --> 00:32:18,601 Speaker 3: Front door that was locked, and the back door as well. 519 00:32:18,681 --> 00:32:22,721 Speaker 3: So he climbed onto the kitchen sink and he kicked 520 00:32:22,721 --> 00:32:26,161 Speaker 3: out the screen window. He was naked at this stage, 521 00:32:26,721 --> 00:32:31,801 Speaker 3: and he climbed over a tin fence and headed to 522 00:32:31,841 --> 00:32:36,401 Speaker 3: the neighbor and knocked on the door. There was no answer, 523 00:32:36,561 --> 00:32:40,561 Speaker 3: but he knocked again, and a lady came and took 524 00:32:40,641 --> 00:32:45,801 Speaker 3: him inside and called the police. So when the police arrived, 525 00:32:46,401 --> 00:32:52,161 Speaker 3: Fennick arrived and they arrested him, and the police said 526 00:32:52,441 --> 00:32:54,401 Speaker 3: what's your name, and he said Mud. 527 00:32:55,161 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 5: My name is Mud. 528 00:32:57,201 --> 00:32:58,241 Speaker 1: My name is Mud. 529 00:32:58,481 --> 00:33:03,001 Speaker 3: And he just lit up a cigarette as if nothing 530 00:33:03,441 --> 00:33:07,081 Speaker 3: really had happened. He said, Oh, I wanted I just 531 00:33:07,161 --> 00:33:08,681 Speaker 3: wanted someone to cuddle. 532 00:33:09,641 --> 00:33:13,121 Speaker 2: Well, what they found in his combie Van suggested more 533 00:33:13,121 --> 00:33:15,161 Speaker 2: than just cuddling was on his mind, because there was 534 00:33:15,201 --> 00:33:17,681 Speaker 2: a sack of lime in there, which is typically used 535 00:33:18,241 --> 00:33:20,641 Speaker 2: to dissolve bodies. 536 00:33:20,161 --> 00:33:20,961 Speaker 5: When they're buried. 537 00:33:21,481 --> 00:33:23,161 Speaker 2: And this was clearly this was a bit of an 538 00:33:23,161 --> 00:33:27,481 Speaker 2: insight into the way Fenig operated. And this prolonged sexual 539 00:33:27,561 --> 00:33:33,161 Speaker 2: torture and sadistic pleasure followed by eventual murder. And this 540 00:33:33,961 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 2: looked like it was going to be the fate for 541 00:33:35,561 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 2: Jason had he not got out that window. 542 00:33:38,521 --> 00:33:41,121 Speaker 1: Oh he's a little hero, Jason. 543 00:33:42,361 --> 00:33:46,601 Speaker 3: He saved his own life, and secondary that we get 544 00:33:46,641 --> 00:33:49,641 Speaker 3: a bit of an insight on what Fennick was up 545 00:33:49,681 --> 00:33:54,841 Speaker 3: to with children. So he was arrested and the media 546 00:33:54,881 --> 00:33:57,841 Speaker 3: announced that a school teacher had been charged with abduction 547 00:33:58,001 --> 00:34:01,961 Speaker 3: of a child and that really brought out everyone who 548 00:34:02,001 --> 00:34:08,681 Speaker 3: knew Fennick and all of Bravado had come home to roost. 549 00:34:09,281 --> 00:34:11,921 Speaker 3: He had told many people that he had seen Michael. 550 00:34:13,321 --> 00:34:17,441 Speaker 3: He pleaded guilty to the abduction of Jason and sexual 551 00:34:17,441 --> 00:34:21,641 Speaker 3: assault and I think he got fifteen years. But detectives 552 00:34:21,721 --> 00:34:25,241 Speaker 3: thought this is so similar to Michael Black that it 553 00:34:25,321 --> 00:34:30,081 Speaker 3: needs more investigation, so they went down the track of 554 00:34:30,561 --> 00:34:33,321 Speaker 3: what they called similar facts. 555 00:34:34,321 --> 00:34:37,801 Speaker 1: So when you go to court, your. 556 00:34:37,721 --> 00:34:44,161 Speaker 3: Background criminal activities are mentioned, obviously because of a fair trial, 557 00:34:44,281 --> 00:34:48,761 Speaker 3: but the judge agreed that on this occasion it was 558 00:34:49,041 --> 00:34:55,481 Speaker 3: necessary to hear about Jason's abduction. He actually spoke at 559 00:34:55,521 --> 00:34:59,121 Speaker 3: the court and he made up all sorts of excuses. 560 00:34:59,201 --> 00:35:04,561 Speaker 3: He did admit to meeting Michael, and he said he 561 00:35:04,761 --> 00:35:09,321 Speaker 3: lent Michael a fishing knife and they were basically talking together. 562 00:35:09,521 --> 00:35:15,761 Speaker 3: So in the judge's summary, he said, the chances of 563 00:35:16,361 --> 00:35:21,921 Speaker 3: two child abductors with a van, that you actually needed 564 00:35:21,921 --> 00:35:24,601 Speaker 3: a van to abduct a child. Any sort of other 565 00:35:24,761 --> 00:35:28,961 Speaker 3: vehicle wasn't going to be fit. So for two child 566 00:35:29,001 --> 00:35:33,881 Speaker 3: abductors to be at that time and that place, well, 567 00:35:33,921 --> 00:35:39,641 Speaker 3: it was just absurd. So he was found guilty and 568 00:35:39,681 --> 00:35:43,841 Speaker 3: I think he received twenty five years, but the police 569 00:35:43,841 --> 00:35:47,841 Speaker 3: weren't finished yet. Now they believed that he could have 570 00:35:47,881 --> 00:35:51,441 Speaker 3: been the abductor for Louise Bell, so. 571 00:35:51,481 --> 00:35:53,761 Speaker 1: In twenty thirteen they arrested him. 572 00:35:54,201 --> 00:35:59,881 Speaker 3: They tried digging up Fenix's backyard and underneath the floorboards, 573 00:35:59,921 --> 00:36:03,401 Speaker 3: but nothing was found, and they were playing around with 574 00:36:03,561 --> 00:36:07,801 Speaker 3: the DNA, and they sent the DNA over to Holland 575 00:36:08,561 --> 00:36:12,441 Speaker 3: where they have a machine that is far superior to 576 00:36:12,481 --> 00:36:16,561 Speaker 3: what we have here. And the only DNA they found 577 00:36:16,721 --> 00:36:21,001 Speaker 3: was on a piece of fluff on Louise's pajamas. 578 00:36:21,401 --> 00:36:25,001 Speaker 2: Wow, and that Fennick himself had placed on the lawn 579 00:36:25,001 --> 00:36:28,281 Speaker 2: of the neighbor as a way to taunt the police. 580 00:36:28,321 --> 00:36:31,601 Speaker 2: And you know, I guess enjoy the whole but this 581 00:36:31,681 --> 00:36:33,881 Speaker 2: is what brought him down, Michael, which is fantasy. 582 00:36:33,961 --> 00:36:38,241 Speaker 3: No, that's so ironic and it's so beautiful actually. And 583 00:36:38,321 --> 00:36:42,761 Speaker 3: of course the cop that did the forensics at the time, 584 00:36:43,121 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 3: as I said, they put sticky tape, and this little 585 00:36:46,041 --> 00:36:49,841 Speaker 3: piece of fluff was the downfall of DTA FENI. 586 00:36:50,681 --> 00:36:51,041 Speaker 1: I looked. 587 00:36:51,041 --> 00:36:54,121 Speaker 3: There was a lot of other witnesses brought forward, but 588 00:36:54,241 --> 00:36:58,641 Speaker 3: in the end the judge found him guilty and he 589 00:36:58,801 --> 00:37:03,561 Speaker 3: believed the DNA there was obviously, the defense said that, well, 590 00:37:03,641 --> 00:37:07,761 Speaker 3: how did that DNA get there? Because Phoenix's daughter Petra 591 00:37:08,001 --> 00:37:11,681 Speaker 3: was good friends of Louise, And the defense said, well, 592 00:37:11,841 --> 00:37:17,361 Speaker 3: that's how it got onto Louise's top. But yeah, it 593 00:37:17,401 --> 00:37:22,081 Speaker 3: was a bill into one chance of that DNA not 594 00:37:22,401 --> 00:37:23,521 Speaker 3: being Deeta fenic. 595 00:37:24,361 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he maintains his innocence about Michael Black and 596 00:37:29,521 --> 00:37:33,681 Speaker 2: Louise Bell. But he's in jail forever, and you would 597 00:37:33,801 --> 00:37:38,681 Speaker 2: hope that there would be some spark of humanity and 598 00:37:38,881 --> 00:37:42,321 Speaker 2: mercy and compassion in him that would lead him to 599 00:37:42,401 --> 00:37:46,401 Speaker 2: reveal what he did with the bodies of Michael and Louise. 600 00:37:46,721 --> 00:37:51,001 Speaker 2: Has there been in the attempt to prevail on whatever 601 00:37:51,481 --> 00:37:53,721 Speaker 2: humanity is in this bloke to reveal. 602 00:37:53,441 --> 00:37:57,281 Speaker 3: That, Yes, I was talked to one of the detectives 603 00:37:57,321 --> 00:38:01,561 Speaker 3: and this is back in nineteen nineties, and Fennick just 604 00:38:01,601 --> 00:38:10,081 Speaker 3: denied ever doing the During the Luise Bell trial, he 605 00:38:10,201 --> 00:38:15,121 Speaker 3: had a massive heart attack and he was basically on 606 00:38:15,361 --> 00:38:19,721 Speaker 3: deathbed and police went to him and said, look, mate, 607 00:38:20,041 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 3: your time's running out. 608 00:38:22,161 --> 00:38:23,041 Speaker 1: What do you got to say? 609 00:38:23,041 --> 00:38:27,841 Speaker 3: And you didn't say anything, and amazingly he recovered full recovery. 610 00:38:28,881 --> 00:38:30,401 Speaker 5: Well, you know what, I'm glad about that. 611 00:38:30,601 --> 00:38:33,681 Speaker 2: I'm glad about that because the longer he lives, the 612 00:38:33,681 --> 00:38:36,201 Speaker 2: more he can suffer in prison. I think an escape 613 00:38:36,201 --> 00:38:39,401 Speaker 2: with a heart attack would be a mercy he doesn't deserve. 614 00:38:39,761 --> 00:38:41,321 Speaker 1: Oh, that would have been terrible. 615 00:38:41,521 --> 00:38:44,121 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've had a chance to talk to his family, Petra, 616 00:38:44,201 --> 00:38:47,481 Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier, how did they feel about the secret 617 00:38:47,521 --> 00:38:50,081 Speaker 2: life that their father was conducting. 618 00:38:51,321 --> 00:38:55,721 Speaker 1: Well, looks say, clearly a little bit embarrassed. I guess 619 00:38:56,201 --> 00:39:00,921 Speaker 1: Petra is such a strong woman. I remember this is 620 00:39:00,961 --> 00:39:05,401 Speaker 1: going back twenty thirteen. We were emailing each each other 621 00:39:05,561 --> 00:39:09,081 Speaker 1: and she told me that every night before she goes 622 00:39:09,121 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: to sleep, she prays for the children that have been 623 00:39:12,921 --> 00:39:18,161 Speaker 1: abused by Finnick, and she just has come to the 624 00:39:18,201 --> 00:39:22,201 Speaker 1: conclusion that, yeah, he lived two lives. He was a 625 00:39:22,281 --> 00:39:28,001 Speaker 1: reasonably good father provider, but he had an evilness inside. 626 00:39:28,161 --> 00:39:35,121 Speaker 1: And even talking to Dita's former wife, she stuck around 627 00:39:35,201 --> 00:39:39,361 Speaker 1: because you know, he was a reasonable father. But in 628 00:39:39,441 --> 00:39:40,881 Speaker 1: the end I. 629 00:39:40,761 --> 00:39:43,201 Speaker 3: Think she believed that, Yeah, it was just getting too 630 00:39:43,321 --> 00:39:49,081 Speaker 3: much for her, trying to deny. See, another neighbor contacted 631 00:39:49,121 --> 00:39:52,761 Speaker 3: me and told me how Fenick loved to tutor the 632 00:39:52,801 --> 00:39:57,201 Speaker 3: neighborhood kids and one neighbor said that he saw Nick 633 00:39:57,281 --> 00:40:00,641 Speaker 3: with binoculars looking inside the windows of the other side 634 00:40:00,641 --> 00:40:03,801 Speaker 3: of the streets, so he was yeah, he was complex 635 00:40:05,121 --> 00:40:05,881 Speaker 3: that really. 636 00:40:06,841 --> 00:40:07,881 Speaker 5: That's one word for it. 637 00:40:08,001 --> 00:40:10,241 Speaker 2: But I guess Michael was fantastic to talk to you 638 00:40:10,241 --> 00:40:12,361 Speaker 2: about your book, and people should look at your book. 639 00:40:12,401 --> 00:40:15,401 Speaker 2: Father teacher, child killed the abduction of Louise Bell and 640 00:40:15,441 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 2: Michael Black. But my question to you as we finish here, 641 00:40:18,601 --> 00:40:24,001 Speaker 2: is he was caught for these how many more matters 642 00:40:24,401 --> 00:40:28,561 Speaker 2: was he involved with? And also how many children narrowly 643 00:40:28,601 --> 00:40:30,441 Speaker 2: evaded being grabbed by this monster? 644 00:40:31,761 --> 00:40:37,201 Speaker 3: Well, let's start with Eloise. Fennick used to do a 645 00:40:37,201 --> 00:40:41,121 Speaker 3: lot of traveling school holidays. Yes, he did take his 646 00:40:41,201 --> 00:40:43,761 Speaker 3: family with him most of the time, but there were 647 00:40:43,881 --> 00:40:49,481 Speaker 3: times when he went to Victoria, and the similarity of 648 00:40:49,641 --> 00:40:54,841 Speaker 3: the two abductions is just amazing. I mean, we're all 649 00:40:54,881 --> 00:40:59,481 Speaker 3: speculating here. But then we go forward to the abduction 650 00:40:59,601 --> 00:41:06,681 Speaker 3: at Adelaide. Ovalde De Fennick was actually working with Kirsty 651 00:41:06,761 --> 00:41:10,641 Speaker 3: Gordon's dad at the time as teachers that were both 652 00:41:10,681 --> 00:41:16,361 Speaker 3: science teachers in nineteen seventy three, and I contacted the 653 00:41:16,641 --> 00:41:20,001 Speaker 3: Adelaide High School and they said the Finnig left in 654 00:41:20,081 --> 00:41:23,721 Speaker 3: nineteen seventy three under circumstances. 655 00:41:23,761 --> 00:41:24,521 Speaker 1: They didn't say what. 656 00:41:26,281 --> 00:41:32,081 Speaker 3: So, yeah, he was actually working with little Kirsty. 657 00:41:31,881 --> 00:41:35,121 Speaker 1: Gordon's dad, poor little four year old. Yeah, the four 658 00:41:35,161 --> 00:41:35,561 Speaker 1: year old. 659 00:41:37,961 --> 00:41:40,881 Speaker 5: So Michael, I think this really I think we'll have 660 00:41:40,921 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 5: to wrap up. 661 00:41:41,401 --> 00:41:44,961 Speaker 2: Now, but I think the investigations into Phinich should continue. 662 00:41:45,361 --> 00:41:49,561 Speaker 2: And I guess anyone listening who knew Phoinig through these years, 663 00:41:49,841 --> 00:41:52,241 Speaker 2: I think the hallmark of these offenders is that they 664 00:41:52,801 --> 00:41:56,681 Speaker 2: need to continue abducting and killing. They don't have long gaps. 665 00:41:56,721 --> 00:41:59,881 Speaker 2: There's a need a craving for the thrill of what 666 00:41:59,881 --> 00:42:03,361 Speaker 2: they're doing, so they tend to have a regular interval 667 00:42:03,401 --> 00:42:07,041 Speaker 2: between their outrages. And I think that's your right to 668 00:42:07,081 --> 00:42:10,681 Speaker 2: say that Eloise Wallage is a possibility as a jar 669 00:42:10,721 --> 00:42:14,121 Speaker 2: Anne Ratcliffe and Kirsty Gordon, So there's more information out there. 670 00:42:14,281 --> 00:42:18,081 Speaker 2: I know South Australians are notorious and keeping secrets to 671 00:42:18,241 --> 00:42:20,761 Speaker 2: state for that, but you would hope that people would 672 00:42:20,801 --> 00:42:23,801 Speaker 2: come forward and to assist you, and maybe there'll be 673 00:42:23,841 --> 00:42:24,881 Speaker 2: a sequel to your book. 674 00:42:25,601 --> 00:42:26,281 Speaker 1: That'd be great. 675 00:42:30,321 --> 00:42:33,321 Speaker 2: That was Michael Madigan. It's a harrowing tale. I would 676 00:42:33,321 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 2: recommend you get hold of the book. As I said, 677 00:42:35,521 --> 00:42:39,921 Speaker 2: it's called Father Teacher, Child Killer, the abduction of Louise 678 00:42:39,961 --> 00:42:44,281 Speaker 2: Bell and Michael Black, And you think of the unending 679 00:42:44,441 --> 00:42:49,481 Speaker 2: trauma for the Bell family, the Black family, and for 680 00:42:49,521 --> 00:42:52,521 Speaker 2: that matter, the Walert's family and others who've never found 681 00:42:52,561 --> 00:42:56,561 Speaker 2: the bodies of their children. Will Dieta Fennegg ever reveal 682 00:42:57,321 --> 00:43:00,441 Speaker 2: what he did with the bodies of those kids. Unfortunately, 683 00:43:00,481 --> 00:43:03,481 Speaker 2: my experience in dealing with these sorts of stories, they don't. 684 00:43:03,921 --> 00:43:07,041 Speaker 2: It's the last piece of cleverness, the last leverage they 685 00:43:07,081 --> 00:43:12,521 Speaker 2: have over the authorities is to withhold the final resting place, 686 00:43:13,201 --> 00:43:16,321 Speaker 2: if ever a child can rest who's killed in these circumstances, 687 00:43:16,761 --> 00:43:20,321 Speaker 2: but to withhold that information from police. And I would 688 00:43:20,321 --> 00:43:22,681 Speaker 2: hope that Fenig would break that stereotype, but I don't 689 00:43:22,681 --> 00:43:25,001 Speaker 2: think you will. If you have any information about this 690 00:43:25,081 --> 00:43:28,561 Speaker 2: case or any other cases like this, please call crime 691 00:43:28,601 --> 00:43:31,161 Speaker 2: Stoppers one it out of triple three, triple zero. If 692 00:43:31,201 --> 00:43:33,681 Speaker 2: you don't trust the police, and many people don't, you 693 00:43:33,721 --> 00:43:36,841 Speaker 2: can always email me Adam shanderwriter at gmail dot com 694 00:43:37,041 --> 00:43:38,881 Speaker 2: and I will pass on the information to Michael. 695 00:43:38,921 --> 00:43:41,721 Speaker 5: I know he's still following this case, but these cases 696 00:43:41,761 --> 00:43:42,521 Speaker 5: need to have an end. 697 00:43:42,921 --> 00:43:48,561 Speaker 2: Before Fenig gets the ultimate release of death, he needs 698 00:43:48,921 --> 00:43:50,601 Speaker 2: to let us know what happened. 699 00:43:51,001 --> 00:43:52,961 Speaker 5: This has been Adam Sham for real crime. Thank you 700 00:43:53,001 --> 00:43:53,441 Speaker 5: for listening.