Speaker 1: This is Healthy Heir with Amelia Phillips and welcome to
Speaker 1: one of my mini motivation episodes. These are shorter, more
Speaker 1: practical conversations designed to motivate you with simple, actionable expert
Speaker 1: advice that you can implement straight away. So today we're
Speaker 1: going to be looking into a doctor's guide to sleeping better.
Speaker 1: I recently spoke with Doctor Talkal Pharaoh, a GP that
Speaker 1: specializes in lifestyle medicine, especially around tracking our health with wearables.
Speaker 1: Doctor Talkell is the author of The Pulse Cure, which
Speaker 1: is a book that delves into the research behind wearables
Speaker 1: to help us manage our fitness, stress, and sleep better.
Speaker 2: So take a.
Speaker 1: Listen to Dr Torkal's advice for us around how we
Speaker 1: can get a better night's sleep. So many of us
Speaker 1: are scraping by on five to seven hours of sleep,
Speaker 1: or some of us even worse, when the research shows
Speaker 1: that at least seventy to eighty percent of the adult
Speaker 1: population needs seven to nine hours per night of sleep.
Speaker 1: I can't remember the last time I had nine hours
Speaker 1: of sleep, and those of us who might manage to
Speaker 1: be in our bed for seven to nine hours, maybe
Speaker 1: we're not getting the quality of sleep that we need.
Speaker 1: So what are your strategies for helping us get better
Speaker 1: quality sleep?
Speaker 2: Yes, the first thing would be to be able to
Speaker 2: track it and to use wearables, to be able to
Speaker 2: see the sleep and not just have an feeling about it,
Speaker 2: because how we feel in the morning not necessarily a
Speaker 2: good measure of how well we have slept. It could
Speaker 2: be very much dependent on which sleep face you walk
Speaker 2: up from, whether it was a rem sleep or light
Speaker 2: sleep or whatever.
Speaker 1: So well, can you expand on this, because that's really
Speaker 1: interesting because I've heard people will say, oh, if you
Speaker 1: wake up feeling rested and fresh, then that's a really
Speaker 1: good sign. So what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: If you wake up and you really feel rested, then
Speaker 2: the few people who do that, that's obviously a good sign.
Speaker 2: But I would guess only ten percent would wake up
Speaker 2: by themselves in the morning and feel really, really fresh.
Speaker 2: That is not the reality. So I would think that
Speaker 2: most people will feel not totally arrested in the morning.
Speaker 1: But what you're saying is if you wake up feeling groggy,
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily a sign of or sleep. Your alarm
Speaker 1: might have gone off when you were in a particularly
Speaker 1: deep sleep cycle. Is that what you're saying.
Speaker 2: That's right, So you should wait maybe half an hour
Speaker 2: to one hour until you can better feel how the
Speaker 2: night was, and the feeling of how well you're slept
Speaker 2: will be very much dependent on whether you have gone
Speaker 2: through the sleep faces during the night. We will be
Speaker 2: less aware of whether we have had restorative sleep, like
Speaker 2: fear Ghiologically, with the heart rate variability, we don't have
Speaker 2: that much of a sense. So you could have underrecovered,
Speaker 2: you know, by having a glass of alcohol or eating
Speaker 2: a late night meal, and you wouldn't really feel it
Speaker 2: so much that you could see in the heart rate variability.
Speaker 1: But what about the accuracy. I've heard that the accuracy
Speaker 1: of wearables for sleep is not that great. Is it
Speaker 1: still useful even if it's not laboratory quality?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's useful, and the most useful part
Speaker 2: of it is the heart rate variability part of it,
Speaker 2: so you will get some insight into the sleep faces
Speaker 2: and then the sleep faces. The AI ring is by
Speaker 2: far the best one. But the most important thing. I
Speaker 2: think that whether you have eighty you know in sleep
Speaker 2: score or eighty five, I don't think this is so
Speaker 2: important that you have some degree of insight better insight
Speaker 2: into your sleep. That's very important, I think. And the
Speaker 2: best advice for getting to sleep is of course cut
Speaker 2: out alcohol. That is the first killer of sleep. Even
Speaker 2: though I even as a doctor for many years you
Speaker 2: used to take a couple of glasses over a red
Speaker 2: wine every evening to wind down and thinking it would
Speaker 2: help me sleep. You know what a ridiculous thing. When
Speaker 2: you see the results and you're wearable, and avoid late
Speaker 2: night meals, avoid eating anything for the last two or
Speaker 2: preferably three hours before you go to bed, and in
Speaker 2: the evening to dim the lights, make your room darker
Speaker 2: and calm down, read or do something that you can
Speaker 2: see on your wearable that will calm you down that
Speaker 2: could be different from what you would expect.
Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: A lot of people find out that when they think
Speaker 2: they were relaxing, they were watching Netflix and eating a
Speaker 2: bag of crisps. You know, they would think it was
Speaker 2: like totally bless and calm, and they will see on
Speaker 2: their heart rate monitor that their stress level goes just
Speaker 2: through the roof. And because they were not even thinking
Speaker 2: about this effect, and we don't feel it so well,
Speaker 2: we're not equipped to feel that change in heart rate
Speaker 2: very well. Then they thought they were just relaxing and
Speaker 2: going to bed, but that the heartheed monitor will show
Speaker 2: that you are stressed. Their hearted could be ten beats
Speaker 2: higher than their normal resting heart rate. Other than that,
Speaker 2: make sure to get like you say, seven to nine
Speaker 2: hours of sleep, I think seven to eight hours somewhere
Speaker 2: in between there would be enough for most people. And
Speaker 2: if you're able to have a good sleep consistency, go
Speaker 2: to bed and wake up at the same time most
Speaker 2: days and that would be like a good sleep consistency
Speaker 2: would be within a half hour that is recommended variation.
Speaker 2: Then that is important. Then your brain is more prepared
Speaker 2: to go into the right sleep faces and it will
Speaker 2: sleep more effectively. So having shift work or even in
Speaker 2: the weekends, have this social jet lag will be very
Speaker 2: disturbing for your sleep, and that is something as a
Speaker 2: mom you would have to know that. Okay, there's a
Speaker 2: price to pay for sleep inconsistency, so to speak.
Speaker 1: I love that word social jet lag. I've never heard
Speaker 1: that term before, and it's so true, isn't it. When
Speaker 1: you have a night out and you're not used to
Speaker 1: going to bed at eleven thirty and you wake up
Speaker 1: and it does feel like you're jet lagged. Can I
Speaker 1: ask you something that I'm curious about? In our previous interview,
Speaker 1: you were talking about heat being not great for heart
Speaker 1: rate variability, But I've heard that the body likes to
Speaker 1: fall asleep on a falling temperature, So having a hot shower.
Speaker 1: I like to have a hot bath at night before
Speaker 1: I go to bed, and in my mind I'm thinking
Speaker 1: that you know, it's a falling temperature, like to jump
Speaker 1: into bed feeling or nice and warm. I'd love to
Speaker 1: know your thoughts, given your comments on art right variability.
Speaker 2: I think probably probably there and there's all individual variations,
Speaker 2: but probably a warm, hot bath would stress your system
Speaker 2: quite a lot, while a warm shower, a warm short
Speaker 2: shower should be fine and you would get the effect
Speaker 2: from going out to the shower and then your temperature
Speaker 2: goes down. Maybe not dry yourself with a towel, but
Speaker 2: let it kind of naturally cool down could be even better.
Speaker 2: But I would think that a hot bath. I think
Speaker 2: if you had a garment watch, you would see it's
Speaker 2: clearly that it will be a lot of stress.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Because I mean I sit there, it's like a sauna,
Speaker 1: like I've got beads of sweat coming off my head.
Speaker 1: So I might actually do some little experiments with my
Speaker 1: heart rate variability comparing say that to know a more
Speaker 1: of a tempered shower or something like that.
Speaker 2: And you should have your room temperature in the bedroom
Speaker 2: should be around eighteen degrees.
Speaker 1: Celsius, which is chilly.
Speaker 2: So and you would see that on your heartet monitor
Speaker 2: that that would improve your sleep from fifteen even to
Speaker 2: eighteen degrees in your bedroom. So what you would think,
Speaker 2: you know is a good warm you know in the
Speaker 2: in the bed is not good for your sleep. So
Speaker 2: when you start tracking it.
Speaker 1: There is something nice about feeling cozy and warm in bed,
Speaker 1: but it's nice and cool outside. My mom swear she
Speaker 1: sleeps with the window open even in winter, and it's
Speaker 1: her longevity. Actually said that's why she's so fit and
Speaker 1: healthy at eighty three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she maybe right, maybe just right. So, and you
Speaker 2: could see that in your when you start tracking it,
Speaker 2: that being colder is better.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And it should be totally dark in the bedroom. It
Speaker 2: should be as dark that you cannot see the hand
Speaker 2: in front of you. So it should be that dark
Speaker 2: because any any light there would disturb the melatonin production
Speaker 2: and make and melotonis. It's not just a sleep inducing hormone,
Speaker 2: but it has a lot of things to do as
Speaker 2: it's there to regulate how yourselves are working for better recovery.
Speaker 1: And as a doctor, how important is good quality sleep
Speaker 1: for health and longevity?
Speaker 2: It's extremely important. And do you have you know the
Speaker 2: Matthew Walker. I believe it's Australian and he has written
Speaker 2: the excellent book Why We Sleep, and he's on lots
Speaker 2: of Ted talks and podcasts and all over, and he
Speaker 2: says that the risk of getting cancer if you sleep
Speaker 2: less than six hours compared to more than seven hours
Speaker 2: is twice the risk. You double your risk of cancer.
Speaker 2: You know, me as a doctor, I've been working so
Speaker 2: many night shifts, you know, and been flipping around the
Speaker 2: schedule for sleep, you know, in a terrible, terrible way.
Speaker 2: I knew it was uncomfortable, of course, and tiring, but
Speaker 2: that it was downright dangerous and carcinogenic. I had no
Speaker 2: clue and we didn't know so much about it. As doctors,
Speaker 2: we haven't really learned how to create health. We learned
Speaker 2: how to diagnose and treat disease, so creating a healthy
Speaker 2: life was not on the agenda from the medical study,
Speaker 2: and that would include you know, sleep, exercise, diet, being
Speaker 2: able to regulate stress, you know, cutting down on alcohol.
Speaker 2: Of course, everybody knew we were not supposed to smoke,
Speaker 2: but other than that, we didn't know so much about
Speaker 2: how our lifestyle would affect how sick we would be.
Speaker 2: We were taught that it was mainly a matter of
Speaker 2: genetics or just bad luck, but that is obviously not true.
Speaker 2: I'm happy to see that medical community now is much
Speaker 2: more into preventative medicine, but that we would have to
Speaker 2: learn on our spare time. It's not what we learned
Speaker 2: in school.
Speaker 1: No, and that's why you have this explosion of integrative
Speaker 1: and functional medicine doctors who then go and do the
Speaker 1: extra training in lifestyle medicine to be able to you know,
Speaker 1: incorporate some of these strategies in rather than as you say,
Speaker 1: just you know, going straight to diagnosing and you know,
Speaker 1: treating with pharmacological drugs and things like that. So it's
Speaker 1: so wonderful to see doctors embracing this, but also very
Speaker 1: challenging because a medical system, or here in Australia anyway,
Speaker 1: is under so much load and pressure from an aging
Speaker 1: disease ridden populations. It's not an easy job, but you've
Speaker 1: given us some fantastic strategies to sleeping better, coming from
Speaker 1: a doctor, which is great to know, and particularly starting
Speaker 1: with tracking our sleep, which I'm a big fan of,
Speaker 1: so DTR talker, thank you so much, Thank you, Emelia,