1 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: You can listen to the Front on your smart speaker 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: every morning to hear the latest episode. Just say play 3 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: the news from the Australian. From the Australian, Here's what's 4 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: on the Front. I'm Claire Harvey. It's Thursday, September five. 5 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: Jim Chalmer says the government is keeping Australia out of 6 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 1: recession after the economy recorded its weakest growth since nineteen 7 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: ninety one. The Treasurer says the Reserve Bank is wrong 8 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: to say the economy is running hot. It's all part 9 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: of a barney between the Bank and the government about 10 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 1: who's to blame for the rising cost of living. Talk 11 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: of a family curse and an audacious scam. Those are 12 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: the new twists in our blockbuster podcast investigation Bronwyn, led 13 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: by Hedley Thomas. Journalism can help solve crime, but it 14 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: can also expose the pain and grief buried within families. 15 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: Today we meet a remarkable young woman walking both sides 16 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: of this story. How does the stack of gold bullion 17 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: become a box of cement? That's not a joke or 18 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: a riddle, it's the reality. For Crystal Winfield Neil, a 19 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: single mum living in Sydney, Crystal is the eldest daughter 20 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: of Bronwyn Winfield, who disappeared from Lennox Head on the 21 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: New South Wales North Coast just over three decades ago. 22 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: The bungled initial police investigation and Bromwyn's suspected murder of 23 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: the subject of The Australian's investigative podcast series Bronwyn, created 24 00:01:55,400 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: by our national Chief correspondent Hedley Thomas. Growing up without 25 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: her mum has been hard on Crystal. Recently, she turned 26 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 1: to a spiritual teacher, a self described soul doctor for guidance. 27 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: Crystal has been searching for a way to bring permanent 28 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 2: positivity into her thinking and into her daily life. 29 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: That's Crystal's aunt and Bromwin's half sister, Kim Marshall. 30 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 2: She was approached by a strange person unknown to her 31 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: in the street a number of months ago, and she 32 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 2: has this understanding that this person who sat down with 33 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 2: her understored and knew what she was going through. 34 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: Kim's talking in one of two special new episodes of Bromwyn, 35 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: which are available now exclusively for the Australian subscribers at 36 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: bromwynpodcast dot com. 37 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,679 Speaker 2: And she thought meeting these people which were in numbers 38 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 2: and different types of people that they would help her 39 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 2: on a spiritual path to actually no longer having this 40 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: weighted burden. 41 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: At first, Crystal's financial contribution to the Soul Doctor's cause 42 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: was modest, just a couple of hundred dollars. They told 43 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: her they provided charitable assistance to people in India. But 44 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 1: fast forward a couple of months and Crystal has been 45 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,119 Speaker 1: scammed out of more than three hundred thousand dollars, her 46 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: entire life savings. 47 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: She believes that by her giving them the seventy thousand dollars, 48 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 2: they were going to take it away and bless it 49 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: and then they would return it to her, But apparently 50 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 2: that is no longer the case. But then there's the 51 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 2: other act of kindness that she did is where she 52 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 2: was asked to purchase a large. 53 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: Number of gold. 54 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: And that gold bullion is no longer gold bullion. It 55 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 2: is now actually a container full of cement. 56 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: At some point, the gold bullion Crystal purchase to be 57 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: blessed by the Soul Doctors was switched with an identical 58 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: container full of cement. Crystal recently opened up about being 59 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: scammed in the podcast's official discussion group. A voice actor 60 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: is reading her posts. 61 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 3: Honestly, our family has been through a lot. Both Mum 62 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 3: and I were very trusting people, and as a result, 63 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 3: I was recently scammed my entire life savings by strangers. 64 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: It's the first time we've heard directly from Crystal in 65 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: this podcast series. She declined to be interviewed when Headley 66 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: first started investigating, but she's recently found her voice in 67 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: our lively Facebook group, where nearly twenty thousand listeners are 68 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: chatting and crowdsolving as the investigation unfolds. 69 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 3: And wouldn't prised me if she trusted the wrong person, 70 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 3: someone she has just met, and they were responsible for 71 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 3: her disappearance. I also have other theories, but this seems 72 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 3: likely to me as I know she never would have 73 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 3: left us for long. 74 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: In episode eleven, which is live now exclusively for Ours subscribers, 75 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: Headley Thomas and Cristel's cousin Mattie Walsh, who's been working 76 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: with Heavily on the podcast, discuss these developments. In episode twelve, 77 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: also live now for subscribers, Heavily answers some of our 78 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: listeners burning questions. Crystal Winfield Neil trusted the Soul Doctors 79 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: because of an old bit of family law. 80 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: I heard about this curse when I actually went to 81 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 2: Sydney last year, and I may not be fully accurate 82 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 2: on it, but apparently there is what is known as 83 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 2: a read curse. 84 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: Members of Crystal's extended family, like her Auntie Kim and 85 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: uncle Andy Bromwin, Winfield's brother, say the curse is just 86 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: a bit of a joke, but the told Bromwin's unsolved 87 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: disappearance has taken on her extended family is no laughing matter. 88 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 4: Well, it's been like opening up old wounds. Before the podcast, 89 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 4: I didn't really understand the depths of a lot of 90 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 4: these family issues and what Bromwin's disappearance did. 91 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: Madison Walsh is Bromwin's cousin on the Reed side. She 92 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: was born a decade after Bronwyn disappeared and has been 93 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: working with Headley on the podcast investigation. 94 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 4: And it's also a really tough subject because someone so 95 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 4: close to them has gone missing. Watching it unfold, you 96 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 4: have to keep in mind that this is the furthest 97 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 4: we've ever gone with Bronwin's case. This is the furthest 98 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 4: of the investigation has ever gone, So you, in a 99 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 4: way have to sacrifice a little bit of your personal 100 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 4: information and let it out there so that people can 101 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 4: feel something towards the case, so they feel more connected 102 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 4: to it, so they know that we're not always a 103 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 4: joint family unit, and we all have good days and 104 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 4: bad days, and not everyone agrees with each other's opinions, 105 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 4: and there's moments where family members aren't communicating because it's 106 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 4: just too hard, and it causes more arguments and it 107 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 4: does good discussions. It's tough. It is tough to be 108 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 4: in the middle of that, and things like the curse 109 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 4: come up, and most family members think, oh, it's just 110 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 4: tongue in cheek, it's just a funny thing that we 111 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,239 Speaker 4: like to bring up every now and then as a joke. 112 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 4: But then other family members take it a bit more 113 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 4: seriously and maybe do think, hang on, is there a curse? 114 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, it's all based 115 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 4: on opinion. It's all based on how you feel, and 116 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 4: everyone has a right to have their own opinions and 117 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 4: feel how they want, and at the end of the day, 118 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 4: not everyone's going to agree with you. And that's basically 119 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,679 Speaker 4: been the biggest lesson to learn. 120 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: Mattie's connection to bromwin Winfield inspired her to pursue a 121 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: career in forensic science when she graduated in May. She 122 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: never expected her first gig out of UNI to be 123 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: a true crime podcast investigation. 124 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 4: It was about a year ago and my aunt was 125 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 4: being interviewed by Hedley at her home not far from mine, 126 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 4: and she said that Hedley was coming over to interview 127 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 4: her and asked if I wanted to come and join, 128 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 4: because she knew of my forensics background and knew of 129 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:39,599 Speaker 4: my interest. 130 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: And I went. 131 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 4: I just sat there, and at certain points he asked 132 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 4: for my iPort, and he discovered that I at that 133 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 4: point was still studying forensic science, and he asked me 134 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 4: if I wanted to help him out and work with 135 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 4: him on the podcast. And I was quite shocked that 136 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 4: he was asking me because I was twenty And it's 137 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 4: been going really well ever since. 138 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: Maddie had heard of Headley. Of course, he's the creator 139 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: of the global Juggernaut podcast The Teacher's Pet, which resulted 140 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: in the arrest of Christopher Michael Dawson over the nineteen 141 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: eighty two disappearance of his wife, Lynn Simms. Dawson has 142 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: now been convicted of murder and child sex offending, and 143 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: he's in prison thanks to Hedley's work. One of the 144 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: interesting developments in true crime of journalism is the advent 145 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: of audio. These big, long form podcast investigations, and they 146 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: really are form of entertainment journalism packaged up in this 147 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: very easy to consume form. Has been the subject of 148 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: a podcast like this changed your perspective on how serious 149 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: all of this is. 150 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely seeing the inner workings of a podcast and 151 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 4: seeing how much work goes into it and how many 152 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 4: conversations and how many interviews don't make it to the 153 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 4: final cut is in because there's so much work that 154 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 4: goes into creating a condensed episode that everyone will find 155 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 4: entertaining and want to listen to. It's definitely interesting to witness. 156 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 4: And now when I listen to podcasts and I hear 157 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:19,479 Speaker 4: family members speaking and hearing certain opinions and certain ideas, 158 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 4: you have to also keep the perspective that that's not everything. 159 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 4: That's just one opinion and one thought, but there's still 160 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 4: more to the. 161 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: Story coming up. What it's like when highly invested true 162 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: crime fans start obsessing about your family. Romwin is an 163 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: investigation that's only possible thanks to the subscribers of the 164 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: Australian who get to hear episodes first and to read 165 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: all our amazing stories about this cold case. Join us 166 00:10:51,040 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: at Romwan podcast dot com. We have a very lively 167 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: Facebook group with nearly twenty thousand people in it who 168 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: are discussing this podcast every day. They're very frank with 169 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: their opinions and they can be posh. How have you 170 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: felt watching them discuss this very real life story in 171 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: that way? 172 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 4: Look as a family member. It's interesting to witness because 173 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 4: with a Facebook group, everyone is sitting behind a screen. 174 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 4: They can say what they want, and some opinions are 175 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 4: harsh and some are just the truth, and you can't 176 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 4: really delete every comment you don't like and criticize people 177 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 4: for saying what they think. They are so invested in 178 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,719 Speaker 4: this podcast, it's almost like I feel some people are 179 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 4: searching for the perfect murder in a way. So often 180 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 4: they ask questions or they have opinions that really will 181 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 4: never know the answers to. So it's often hard to 182 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 4: look at that and go, why are we being criticized 183 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 4: when we will never know that? Why are we being 184 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 4: criticized when in hindsight everything is twenty twenty vision. In hindsight, 185 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 4: everything is different. You have to look at it and 186 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 4: take it with a grain of salt, and they can 187 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 4: share their opinion and it's a discussion group. It's open 188 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 4: to people to say what they think and give their 189 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 4: perspectives on the episodes and give their perspectives on what 190 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 4: they think of certain characters within the podcasts. At first, 191 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 4: it was very like I was like, Oh my gosh, 192 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 4: they're very honest. They don't care that you're sitting there 193 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 4: also looking at this Facebook group and you read everything 194 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 4: that they say. It's been challenging to step back a 195 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 4: little bit and understand that they're not as connected as 196 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 4: I am. They really are just looking for entertainment. 197 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: You can hear episodes eleven and twelve of From and 198 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: Now by subscribing at brom one podcast dot com.