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Speaker 1: If you want to achieve something in your outer life,

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Speaker 1: you must first have your inner world in order. If

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Speaker 1: you want to do big things in the world, if

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Speaker 1: you want to achieve your worldly goals, you must do

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Speaker 1: in a work that you cannot achieve in the world

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Speaker 1: if you have not got your inner world in order.

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Speaker 2: Good Thanks for daylighting the show. This is better than yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Useful tools and useful conversations to help make your day

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Speaker 2: to day better than yesterday. Every single episode since twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 2: every week since then. My name's Olsha Ginzburg. Thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for being here. Got a question for you.

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Speaker 2: What did you love to do as a kid you

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Speaker 2: don't really do anymore? Do you ever think about it?

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Speaker 2: Did you miss it? When it goes a little quiet

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Speaker 2: and in between stuff, does a part of you feel,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, a bit empty because that thing that

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Speaker 2: you love isn't a part of who you are anymore. Well,

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Speaker 2: in the case of an ex footy player, you might

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Speaker 2: think that would be the game of footy, But in

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Speaker 2: the case of my guest today, it wasn't. It was reading,

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Speaker 2: specifically reading the genre of fantasy books, allowing this back

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Speaker 2: into his life, reintegrating it recognizing that little kid who

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Speaker 2: loved it that was still a part of who he was.

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Speaker 2: That came at a really important time in his life

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Speaker 2: and it made all the difference. My guest today is

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Speaker 2: Luke Bateman. He is an NROL player, used to play

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Speaker 2: for the Campbell Raiders. He was once a bachelor, and

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Speaker 2: he is, as you will hear, a self confessed nerd.

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Speaker 2: He's an author, he's a lover of books. He's a

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Speaker 2: book tok star. He's a podcaster and has got a

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Speaker 2: new podcast it's called in the Good Books. Yes Indeed.

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Speaker 2: In this conversation, he talks about growing up kind of

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Speaker 2: feeling a bit ashamed about who he was and what

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Speaker 2: he liked, the highs and lows of a footy career

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Speaker 2: that started when he was very young, his struggle with

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Speaker 2: a crippling ampling addiction that came after that, and the

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Speaker 2: very dark places that led him to and how rediscovering

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Speaker 2: reading and reintegrating his inner child into who he was

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Speaker 2: helped lead him towards a life and recovery. Luke speaks

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Speaker 2: about his beautiful relationship with his mum, about being open

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Speaker 2: around his love of reading, and how that made him

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Speaker 2: a bit of a sensation and how he dealt with

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Speaker 2: a controversy that came with that, especially around the book

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Speaker 2: deal that came to him. It's a great conversation and

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Speaker 2: we're going to get right into it back in a moment.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening to the show. We're getting

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Speaker 2: to look back with in just a moment. This weekend's

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Speaker 2: Story Club the ninth of November at the Factory Theater

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Speaker 2: in Marrickville. Our lineup is or Mighty Mark Humphrey's had

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Speaker 2: to step out for a sec but Shane Jenniic aka

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Speaker 2: Courtney Act we'll be live on stage telling a true story,

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Speaker 2: as well as Harley Breen, Nina o'yama, you know her

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Speaker 2: from Deadlock Molrose.

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Speaker 1: She writes for.

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Speaker 2: Gruin, Steph Broadbridge who wrote Breaking the musical, and just

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Speaker 2: come back from Edinburgh. These people are all going to

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Speaker 2: be on stage this Sunday night, the ninth of November,

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Speaker 2: Factory A Theater, Marrickville. There's a few tickets left get

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Speaker 2: around at this one will sell out. It might be

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Speaker 2: our last tur for a little bit, so do not

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Speaker 2: miss it. Also, that's in the show notes where the

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Speaker 2: link is. You can also get my new books called

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Speaker 2: so what now what My guest today, Luke Bateman is

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Speaker 2: a fascinating man. You might need to forget everything you

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Speaker 2: thought you knew about him, just to heads up. This

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Speaker 2: conversation does briefly touch on thoughts of suicide because that

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Speaker 2: is where his addiction and the things took him. So

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Speaker 2: if you do need a bit of support, if those things,

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Speaker 2: if this conversation brings anything up for you, Lifeline's always there.

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Speaker 2: Thirteen eleven fourteen. Enjoy the deep and husky times of

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Speaker 2: very muscly Luke Bateman, Welcome to Sydney. Where's home for

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Speaker 2: you at the moment.

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Speaker 1: I'm out in June in western Queensland. It's about an

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Speaker 1: hour an hour north.

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Speaker 2: Of Roma, delightful and Rome, of people who don't know,

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Speaker 2: is the site of where the Australian and gas industry

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Speaker 2: first sighted.

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Speaker 1: The gas industry in Rome is still very much alive

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Speaker 1: and kicking.

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Speaker 2: But there was a fire in Roma that was so enormous.

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Speaker 2: They didn't know what the fuck they were doing. They

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Speaker 2: were just drilling for shit, and the bubble started coming

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Speaker 2: out with like, oh it was bad, and sure enough

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Speaker 2: I caught fire. It burned for forty five days. It

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Speaker 2: was so huge. People were coming from New Zealand to

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Speaker 2: come and look at it. Tourist is in the eighteen hundreds. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's amazing what happened. What happens up in in June.

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Speaker 1: That's where I got my business up there. So still

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Speaker 1: cutting wood, yeah, Tim McCarter, So I've got my logging

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Speaker 1: business up there.

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Speaker 2: You're a lumberjack and you were okay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so cutting timber. We're about two hours northwest

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Speaker 1: of in June.

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Speaker 2: When I first met you doing Bachelor, we did have

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Speaker 2: some conversation the huskbar and a little little household chainsaw.

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Speaker 2: Oh you just small one, just a little one, you've

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Speaker 2: got to But then you brought my heart a bit.

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Speaker 2: He says, No, we don't. We don't really do anything

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Speaker 2: with chainsaws anymore. It's like all big machines. Yeah, because

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Speaker 2: it's much much safer, much more efficient. Was wood shop

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Speaker 2: at the Echo? Ever in your future when you're a kid.

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Speaker 1: Nah made my my stepdad cut timber pretty much like

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Speaker 1: my whole childhood. Never ever once was I like, that's

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Speaker 1: that's going to be like my career, or we're doing

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Speaker 1: that one day, but that's our life was It was

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Speaker 1: just footy. Yeah, it was just footy, yeah, right, like

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Speaker 1: we always got told. It was always like when I

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Speaker 1: was a teenager, and then even like early you know, twenties,

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Speaker 1: it was like footy end one day and you need

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Speaker 1: to have a plan about what you're going to do.

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Speaker 1: But I never had a plan, Like I just I

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Speaker 1: just never had a plan. So when footy did end,

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Speaker 1: and very unexpectedly for me, I was kind of like,

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Speaker 1: what now, And my stepdad was like I was pretty

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Speaker 1: wayward at the time, but my stepdad was like, mate,

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Speaker 1: you're coming with me to work for me. And I

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Speaker 1: went out there working with him and mate like it.

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Speaker 2: Was home for me.

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Speaker 1: So I loved it and then started my own company

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Speaker 1: and got my own contracts on my own machinery and

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Speaker 1: went from there.

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Speaker 2: Much like you know, parts of the Northern Territory and

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Speaker 2: parts of South Australia are just these just hubs of

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Speaker 2: AFL talent. What is it about Western Queensland Because some

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Speaker 2: of the most old time players ever come from exactly

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Speaker 2: the part of the world that you come from. What

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Speaker 2: is it about Western Queensland?

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Speaker 1: In Western Queensland, every kid born there like your play

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Speaker 1: rugby league because that's the only option that you have

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Speaker 1: either your play rugby league or you don't play sport.

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Speaker 1: So I think every kid out there plays rug league

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Speaker 1: and then add my as the queens and Origin team

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Speaker 1: and wants to be an Origin player.

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Speaker 2: Lockier beats an all from out that way.

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Speaker 1: Well, if you talk not even just like if you

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Speaker 1: talk country Queensland in general, it's just like the on

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Speaker 1: a list is a mile long.

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Speaker 2: But that that particular that kind of injured Roma particularly

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Speaker 2: like out there.

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Speaker 1: There's someone else to Bateman, one of the great.

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Speaker 2: How were you when you kind of realized I might

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Speaker 2: be better at this than other people?

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Speaker 1: Oh, not not in an arrogant manner, but like early on,

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Speaker 1: probably like under ten.

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Speaker 2: Really yeah, And then what does it feel like when

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Speaker 2: you're you're you know, that kid, that great player, and

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Speaker 2: then someone taps you on the shoulder and you go

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Speaker 2: to a representative team or an area team and now

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Speaker 2: you're playing with other people of that stand what's that

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Speaker 2: feel like?

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Speaker 1: I always questioned myself when you went to like the

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Speaker 1: representative levels, because I was from the country, and then

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Speaker 1: you'd go to the representative levels and they're all the

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Speaker 1: city kids, and all the kids had done other things

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Speaker 1: and we're in sort of like better competitions and high

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Speaker 1: quality of competitions, and and I always cressed myself when

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you know, do I really belong

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Speaker 1: here or was I just sort of like the best

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Speaker 1: kid from my area?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? But then you know, your results speak for them,

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Speaker 2: so yeah, but then you play good footy, yeah, and

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Speaker 2: you'd be like, Okay, no, I do belong to here. Yeah?

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Speaker 2: When you major first grade debut, how was it Raiders

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Speaker 2: that you went all the way down to that's a

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Speaker 2: long way from injury. Yeah, that Like I'd.

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Speaker 1: Always obviously live with my family to that point, and

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Speaker 1: that was as a seventeen year old, Like leaving your

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Speaker 1: family move and into state pretty big move are pretty tough,

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Speaker 1: Like I had a fair bit of homesickness to begin with,

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Speaker 1: and you found myself down in Canberra at seventeen years

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Speaker 1: old in a like a professional football and way.

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Speaker 2: How do you deal with home sickness when you're seventeen?

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Speaker 1: Not well, mate? Not well?

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't think you deal with many things

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Speaker 2: too well When you said I mean particularly that there's

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Speaker 2: all this pressure that yeah, you've got on yourself, but

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Speaker 2: also from people around you, and you start or ship,

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Speaker 2: you're like instantly. Oh it's men. Yeah, men, men everything

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Speaker 2: on the line, who see you? As? Are you coming

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Speaker 2: to take my spot? Like it's hardcore one hundred, it's

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Speaker 2: it's a ruthless environment. Was there anything off off field

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Speaker 2: that was there to support you?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Not really mate, to be fair, I mean the

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Speaker 1: off field environment was pretty much like you just you

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Speaker 1: idolize like you know, you you're and a young kid,

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Speaker 1: and you idolize the people that you're now sort of

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Speaker 1: training with at that look at that young age, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't playing with them yet, but you idolize like the

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Speaker 1: NRL players that you want to be one day, and

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Speaker 1: then you sort of just time with them offield. And

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Speaker 1: I think like the off field culture of of the

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Speaker 1: NRL is quite corrosive, Like there was you know, he's

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Speaker 1: drinking and gambling and that sort of stuff, and then

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Speaker 1: you're just sort of.

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Speaker 2: Tied in with that behavior and it doesn't seem abnormal.

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Speaker 1: Because this is what we do. Oh, it's at least

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Speaker 1: just normal. And I don't even think that that's I

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Speaker 1: don't think that that's like solely part of the NL.

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Speaker 1: Like I've got mates who don't play football and the

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Speaker 1: normal you know what you do in society is you know,

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Speaker 1: on a weekend or whatever, you go to the pub

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Speaker 1: and you have a bet, and you have a drink

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Speaker 1: and you get blind.

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Speaker 2: And then I got real lucky that I didn't discover

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Speaker 2: I didn't like there was no mobile phone, so there

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Speaker 2: was no mobile game. But I didn't know what the

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Speaker 2: tab was until I was like eighteen. I was on

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Speaker 2: the doll the worst thing ever happened, won the first

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Speaker 2: bet I put on worst thing ever. Yeah, I thought,

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Speaker 2: this is great. I can turn my doll check into

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Speaker 2: I could put zeros on it. This is unreal. It

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Speaker 2: didn't work out that way, and I figured out pretty

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Speaker 2: quickly that it's not worth me taking the bus up

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Speaker 2: to Intrepilly to you know, put it, you know, twenty

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Speaker 2: bucks across the bench there at the cross my fingers

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Speaker 2: and hope that race eight at Doomban is going to

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Speaker 2: pay out. There's other ways. In fact, I'm making money

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Speaker 2: by not going. Yeah, but that's not to say that

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Speaker 2: me and me and gambling apps haven't had it. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm sober, but once I got sober, it's still there.

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Speaker 2: That's still that that thing, that thing to go and

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Speaker 2: escape too is still there. I had a fucking before

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Speaker 2: they made it illegal. Me and internet poker, who boy man, two.

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Speaker 1: Tables at once, like tournaments all dark you split screens.

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Speaker 1: I did.

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Speaker 2: I was it was a mid two thousands, mate. I

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Speaker 2: was fancy. I go about two monitors now, but like gaming,

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Speaker 2: but I had to. I had two monitors and this

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Speaker 2: one was the that one was the porn one, but

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Speaker 2: this one was. This one was the gambling one. I

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Speaker 2: was playing two tournaments at the same time, like in

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Speaker 2: the daytime.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like a bad time. And you know

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Speaker 2: when I think I talk about it, when I talk

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Speaker 2: on stage like it was just normal because that's just

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Speaker 2: what I was doing. I talk about it now, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: my dad was us dollars?

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Speaker 1: Like what the fuck was I You look back at

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Speaker 1: some of your behaviors and accents and you go that

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Speaker 1: it's just so insane.

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Speaker 2: While you were playing it was an injury. Can you

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Speaker 2: talk us through what what that week was? Like? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I at the start of twenty nineteen, I

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Speaker 1: did my knee and it wasn't in the beginning actually

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Speaker 1: meant to be that big of an issue because I

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Speaker 1: tore my miniscus and it was sort of like that oh,

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Speaker 1: it's six weeks and you'll be back. Was it training

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Speaker 1: or a tackle playing footy? In the tackle, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: just like twisted and then in the rehab it was

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Speaker 1: mismanaged and I actually ended up with a like a

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Speaker 1: fractured bone. Yeah, so the because it was bone on

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Speaker 1: bone in my knee where they were it was compounding

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Speaker 1: it like fractured, fractured the injury after initially, so then

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Speaker 1: that was pretty much they were just like, mate, this

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Speaker 1: is like that's six months, pretty like nothing. That's like

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Speaker 1: your season's done. And that was the I was off

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Speaker 1: contract that year, and obviously I had other issues going

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Speaker 1: on outside of football as well as like a bad place,

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Speaker 1: bad place personally, and then my career was falling apart

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Speaker 1: as well, and it was tough, mate, Like it was,

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Speaker 1: it was really tough. And then got to the end

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Speaker 1: of got through that, got to the end of my

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Speaker 1: contract at the end of twenty nineteen and signed a

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Speaker 1: one year deal for like an absolute pittance for twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty and I was like, okay, I'll do my reab

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Speaker 1: get back to playing footy and give another go. And

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Speaker 1: then COVID hit and COVID like shut everything down and

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Speaker 1: I just had to accept the fact. I was just like,

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Speaker 1: well this is this is it for me? Like I

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Speaker 1: need to go and earn some money.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know this experience from when I had

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Speaker 2: all the hip surgery and stuff getting told on my physio.

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Speaker 2: I'll never forget. It was on my quarry street. He

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Speaker 2: was standing between me and the botanical gardens and I

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Speaker 2: can see the gardens behind him, and he's telling me.

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Speaker 2: He goes, yeah, you got fai and I throw it,

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Speaker 2: so you're going to have to stop running. And I

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Speaker 2: running was more identity, that was it. I was a runner.

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Speaker 2: That is what I did every day. And he's like,

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Speaker 2: are you right man? He held me because he said

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Speaker 2: I thought you're gonna fall over. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I felt the floor drop out from under me. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: What's it like when this thing that you've only wanted

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Speaker 2: to do since you were under ten, under six suddenly gone?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's difficult. When you draw your value in

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Speaker 1: the world from you know, what you do, and then

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Speaker 1: that's taken away from you. Then you have to then

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Speaker 1: you question yourself and you go, well who am I? Like,

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Speaker 1: where do I belong? Who am I? What place do

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Speaker 1: I have in the world? If I'm not a NRL player,

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Speaker 1: then who is Luke Bateman? Who is Luke Bateman? And

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Speaker 1: I was faced with that, like that question very quickly

295
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Speaker 1: and very unexpectedly. And it also happened in the time

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Speaker 1: of my life where as I said, like, personally, things

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Speaker 1: weren't well. My career just ended out of the blue.

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Speaker 1: It was a tough It was a tough, tough period

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Speaker 1: of life.

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Speaker 2: Were you in contact with your family, were they aware

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Speaker 2: of how things were.

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Speaker 1: My mum was sort of the one who knew everything

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Speaker 1: that was going on, and I kept telling her like

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Speaker 1: I was like, you can't tell my step Tyler. You

305
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,760
Speaker 1: can't tell Donnie because I didn't want him to know

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Speaker 1: because I felt so much shame and embarrassment around it.

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Speaker 1: So you can't tell him. And he knew bits and pieces,

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Speaker 1: and then it got to the point where he had to,

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Speaker 1: like he found out battle of it.

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Speaker 2: And so what you're like, twenty six was twenty six, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty six old. Surely you had an idea of

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Speaker 2: what would happen if something didn't change.

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Speaker 1: I was at the end of the tracks and I

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Speaker 1: got to the point I said it, this goes one

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Speaker 1: of two ways, and I either end up with me

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Speaker 1: in a coffin or I have to change my life,

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Speaker 1: like that's the That is literally the only two options

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Speaker 1: that I have left ahead, yep.

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Speaker 2: And not having been in that position myself, unfortunately more

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Speaker 2: than once, one of them takes a shit a lot

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Speaker 2: of work. It's hard because.

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Speaker 1: When you're not in that space and you look at that,

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Speaker 1: that is an easy choice and it's very clear. But

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Speaker 1: when you're in that place, you're bereft of hope truly,

325
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Speaker 1: Like the other choice is very appealing, is really appealing,

326
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Speaker 1: because there's like there is no hope and going that

327
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Speaker 1: way is a lot of pain, a lot of suffering

328
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Speaker 1: and who even knows if it's possible or what that

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Speaker 1: looks like, whereas I know what this looks like, and

330
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Speaker 1: it is there's no pain there and there's no suffering there.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're describing it, and which is a lie.

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Speaker 2: Let's be clear, that's what your brain's convincing in the moment.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that's actually no, that's not reality. This is

334
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Speaker 1: but that's what you're like, that's what your thoughts, and

335
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Speaker 1: that's what you're convincing yourself of.

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Speaker 2: You know, you still have.

337
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Speaker 1: A sense of reality to a degree and that, you know,

338
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Speaker 1: I was like, well, that's not appealing because even though

339
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,160
Speaker 1: that's easier and that doesn't have pain like it still

340
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Speaker 1: isn't what I want. So I had to make the

341
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Speaker 1: tough season two to go the other way.

342
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Speaker 2: I found out a therapist told me the word for it.

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Speaker 2: It's called cir cse. It's a very old word, but

344
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Speaker 2: to me, cse means I I don't want to die.

345
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Speaker 2: I can't stand another day alive like this.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's very apt.

347
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Speaker 2: And that's the word. That's the word that describes it.

348
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's Yeah, that's now on the head.

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Speaker 2: That's it. Yeah, that's it. And in that point you

350
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,600
Speaker 2: have it's unfortunate because our brain tries to convince this

351
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Speaker 2: to make a take a make a permanent solution, and

352
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,000
Speaker 2: orld find a permanent solution to what's a temporary problem.

353
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Speaker 2: We are, as you mentioned, something happens to a perception

354
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Speaker 2: of a perception of time, and we're unable to picture

355
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Speaker 2: a time when it won't be like this. As far

356
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,440
Speaker 2: as we're concerned, this is how it's going to be forever. Yeah, forever.

357
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,639
Speaker 2: In that moment, I mean, what was happening to me?

358
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Speaker 2: I knew enough because I'd gotten sober, I knew enough

359
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:23,879
Speaker 2: to know I'm a brain starting to do this. I

360
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:25,560
Speaker 2: need to pick up the phone, checked my thoughts for

361
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Speaker 2: something else's brain.

362
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Speaker 1: What did you do in that? In those moments? I

363
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,080
Speaker 1: drove to my mum. So I drove to my mom's place.

364
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Speaker 1: I walked in and I broke down crying and I

365
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:38,760
Speaker 1: just said, Mom, like, I need to go to rehab.

366
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Speaker 1: I just that was the only thing left to me.

367
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,120
Speaker 1: I was like, like, I have to go to rehab

368
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,080
Speaker 1: because I resisted it at that point, I've been resisting

369
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,120
Speaker 1: it for a long time, and I just I just yeah,

370
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,440
Speaker 1: because I was just like, this is the only thing

371
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Speaker 1: I have left.

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Speaker 2: How did you even know what it was? I mean,

373
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Speaker 2: I had an idea about these places, I didn't know that.

374
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Speaker 2: I didn't what they were, where they were, how you

375
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:02,479
Speaker 2: got in?

376
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Speaker 1: I had no idea. My mum had done a lot

377
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,359
Speaker 1: of research on it. Yeah, so my mom had done

378
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:08,960
Speaker 1: a lot of research because she was the one She

379
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:10,119
Speaker 1: kept saying to me, She's.

380
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 2: Like, Luke, I want you to do this, Luke, I

381
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:11,679
Speaker 2: want you to do this.

382
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,399
Speaker 1: And every time she would tell me, I just would resist,

383
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 1: and I was like no, I'm not doing that. Like,

384
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Speaker 1: I'm not doing that, And then just got to the

385
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,480
Speaker 1: point where I just like, nah, okay, I'm doing it. Yeah,

386
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: let's like, let's work out together how this happened. So

387
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,439
Speaker 1: she already she already had a bit of information on it,

388
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Speaker 1: and then together we made a choice.

389
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,120
Speaker 2: Do you like it? Thirty days, ninety days, thirty days,

390
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:33,240
Speaker 2: thirty days, thirty days?

391
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

392
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. And for people who wonder, like what's that about,

393
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 2: Like what what goes on? What was your mis big

394
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:46,280
Speaker 2: misconceptions about rehab? Oh my I don't.

395
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 1: I don't think I was. I wasn't resistant to rehab itself.

396
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,399
Speaker 1: I was resistant to being a person who went to rehab.

397
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 1: I was resistant to the shame I admit, like the

398
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,639
Speaker 1: admitting that I was at that level.

399
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, self stigma is way worse than any stigma. I'll

400
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 2: give a fuck what anyone says. You know, I would say,

401
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,639
Speaker 2: you've had psychosis. I don't give a ship saying that,

402
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 2: because nothing you can say to me is worse than

403
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:18,560
Speaker 2: the shout myself. So I'll tell anybody, Yeah, but I've

404
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 2: done that, Like I didn't want to. When I first

405
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 2: first offered the meds, I didn't want to take them

406
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,160
Speaker 2: because I didn't want to be the kind of person

407
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 2: that needed to take them exactly, all right, that was yeah,

408
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 2: I didn't want to get the help because I didn't

409
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 2: want to be the contented to help.

410
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,439
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right, Yeah fucking I am yeah, and I

411
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 1: am to. But yeah, that's a hard way to get

412
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 1: through that one. It is, man, that's it. That's like,

413
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 1: that's your ego, that's your ego being a barrier and

414
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 1: that is such a like that and that happens every

415
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 1: single day in so many different avenues. But I went

416
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,199
Speaker 1: to rehab, and my rehab experience was obviously like it

417
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 1: was a bit of a whirlwind. But I went to

418
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 1: a detox clinic, So I was in the detoxic with

419
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: like alcoholics and drug agges who were day one of

420
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 1: coming off of like heavy drug use. And it was

421
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: eye opening, to say the least. But I like the

422
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 1: best thing for me. I was in there with these

423
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 1: people who were heroin and methaddicts and it was just

424
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 1: humbled me because I looked at them and I was like,

425
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 1: you're my peer, like you are a fellow. I am

426
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: one of you, And to me, that was one of

427
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: the best things that ever happened to me that humbled

428
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: me to the point, you know where before that I

429
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,400
Speaker 1: would have always thought thought myself above that. And then

430
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: to see that person as my peer, as my equal,

431
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 1: that was such a formulative moment in me as a person.

432
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 2: My guy says to me, he says, you got to

433
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:02,239
Speaker 2: find humility before humility finds you. And I still I

434
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 2: still have to seek it because that ego that got

435
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: me into all the trouble is still around, It's not

436
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 2: still in there, and I still have to arm wrestle it.

437
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 2: Like so let's just a line movie.

438
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 1: Every day, every every every midday is.

439
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 2: Better than others.

440
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so true. You do because humility humility found me,

441
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: and when humility finds you, it's not kind to you.

442
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 2: So how does it? How do you balance the ego

443
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 2: thing was showing up on a TV show like Bachelor?

444
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 2: How does the how do you hold onto that ego

445
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 2: and that environment where everyone's and for the case for

446
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 2: the show, it must be very difficult because for the

447
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 2: show to work, we have to turn that person into Oh,

448
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 2: we have to put them on a pedestal. We weally

449
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 2: look after the every need. We have someone around who's

450
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 2: there to get you. You know, you want, you want

451
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 2: to whatever you want any time of day or not, Like,

452
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 2: how do you keep your feet on the ground in

453
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 2: that situation.

454
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: By the time the Bachelor experience happened, I was pretty

455
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 1: I was actually pretty grounded as a person, and it's

456
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: really important to meet situations like that with gratitude. Gratitude

457
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: is a massive, massive thing for me. I think gratitudes

458
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: are really grounding, a really grounding practice. So throughout that

459
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: whole Batchel experience, every day I kept saying to myself,

460
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: how lucky am I to be in this place. I'll

461
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: never get to do this again. Not many people will

462
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 1: ever get to do this experience, So how lucky am

463
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 1: I that I'm the person who gets to do this experience?

464
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: And I need to remind me. I did remind myself

465
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: that every day and was just very as I said,

466
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: just very glad to be there. Never thought myself above anyone,

467
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: not above like the makeup artists, not above the crew,

468
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 1: not above the film film crew, not above anybody.

469
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: It was freaking nuts. That one. The one I really liked,

470
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 2: the three batch version of it. I thought it was

471
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 2: really fun.

472
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really I have no experience in any other version.

473
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 2: All right. I really liked the books. It was our

474
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 2: eleventh season of that one of Bachelor, and I had

475
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 2: developed quite a degree of trust with the EPs and

476
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 2: the showrunners. And because we did that whole part before

477
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 2: bring you guys in all the stuff of getting everybody

478
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 2: talk about what happened that week used to happen in

479
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 2: individual interviews. And because we were quite big Survivor fans

480
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 2: in our director directed Survivor, what if we did the

481
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 2: Rose Council made it like at the end where JP

482
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 2: or Man is, I always give it a shot. So

483
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 2: we tried it in the Goldie and it was really good.

484
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 2: But it's a lot. They put a lot of trust

485
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: in me to be able to wrangle that and you

486
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 2: it was a lot of big personalities in that as

487
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed. I like the doubt, the dynamic.

488
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I'm having those of having three bucks. Yeah

489
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: it was actually pretty good.

490
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was actually it was actually pretty good.

491
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: Adds more layers for you holy ship though.

492
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 2: In Melbourne.

493
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: Thought he was that it was gold and then they

494
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: and then that we do like the pool dates excellent, right,

495
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: this is two degrees like yeah, jump take everything off,

496
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 1: jump in.

497
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 2: The pool, Like, what what was it? Like, we'll do

498
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 2: when you watch it back, because it's it's I know

499
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 2: for me, it's it's weird. Didn't watch it.

500
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: I didn't watch it.

501
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 2: You didn't watch it?

502
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 1: Nah, Nah, I didn't watch it. I watched I watched

503
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 1: the first episode and I watched the last episode. Yeah,

504
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: that's it. I didn't watch anything in between. No, I

505
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. I even it's funny, like I even hate,

506
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 1: like I hate seeing myself on a screen. I know

507
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: that sounds ridiculous because like I upload videos on social

508
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: media all the time, but I hate watching myself on

509
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: a screen. But I actually don't know. I just it

510
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: makes me cringe, Like I just cringe it myself.

511
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 2: I do kind of remember that feeling. I found that

512
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 2: if I kind of looked at from a place like

513
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 2: how can I look at it like game tape? How

514
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: can I look at it? To improve over time? It

515
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: was easier. That's a good tip.

516
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: Actually it was easier.

517
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: I'm having about it. But I was also doing so

518
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 2: much of it. We were doing like twenty something hours

519
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: a week of it. Yeah, so you got to use

520
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 2: to it pretty quick. Yeah, that's true. It wasn't just

521
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 2: like ninety seconds of a minute here. Yeah, all the time, Yeah,

522
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 2: all the time. When you did get back up at

523
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 2: a reheard and you got back were you able to

524
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 2: talk to your step dad about that? Were you able

525
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: to jump over that? Because shame traps this man. Shame

526
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 2: traps is in a place where we don't get treatment.

527
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 2: Shame traps is in a place where we isolate from

528
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: people who are trying to help us. Shame access do

529
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 2: pretty dumb stuff on that.

530
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: I actually think shame is one of the major issues

531
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: with men today. We as men have so much shame

532
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: as a culture, Like, we have so much shame and

533
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: so many things. And I think, you know, vulnerability and

534
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: openness are like really really lacking in today's world because

535
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: everyone men try to live to characters and really hide

536
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: any weakness and vulnerability. And as you said, shame traps

537
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: us and that was that was a massive issue for me,

538
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: was the shame that I felt and when I did,

539
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 1: like when I when I got like when i'd been

540
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: through everything I got out of rehab. I me and

541
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: my stepdad have talked about it multiple times. And it's funny.

542
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: He's he's old school and he's just an old fell

543
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: from western Queensland. Grew up, he left school in grade nine,

544
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: worked on cattle properties, you know, first sort of twenty

545
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: or first sort of thirty forty years of his life

546
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 1: and before he went into logan. So he's just always

547
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 1: been in hard physical labor his whole life. And he's

548
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 1: one of those men who like feelings, what you just

549
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: whatever happens, you just shove it down and you get

550
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: on with it. So he's he's a gray man and

551
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: a very open man. He always like he struggles to

552
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 1: understand and he struggles to he really struggles to empathize

553
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: with the situation because it's just so removed from anything

554
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: that he's ever experienced or been a part of. And

555
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: it's funny when you talk to him because you see

556
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: you see him like when you're talking about you see

557
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: him struggling to compute it, and he's just like, I

558
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: just just never understood how he just couldn't stop, you know,

559
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: And he's just like, you're just all you had to

560
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: do was just.

561
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 2: Not do it.

562
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: And you're just like, yeah, like you not wrong, not wrong,

563
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: it's pretty simple. Does not do a good point, Yeah,

564
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: So it's funny, but he does like as I said,

565
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: he does try and understand. But it's funny just to

566
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: it's funny to see that the difference in culture and upbringing.

567
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: And that's the thing that where education of the family

568
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: is so important when it comes to addiction, just helping

569
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: people understand that, yeah, they can't not do it because

570
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: something has happened in their brain that for whatever reason,

571
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: it's now at a point where the choice they can

572
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 2: no longer make the choice, and they're not doing it

573
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: because they don't like you or they don't love you, I.

574
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: Don't believe you.

575
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: When they know they're going to do they know they're

576
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 2: going to lose everything, and even though they know that

577
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: it's still the best option they have because not doing

578
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 2: it is so painful, it's so bad that they will

579
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: still do that thing. And a lot of a lot

580
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: of families don't don't get understand, which I understand.

581
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: It comes back to how you you know, neurochemistry works

582
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: and it's mother Nature didn't put us here to thrive.

583
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: Mother nature put us here to survive. And when like that,

584
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: and when your brain, when you're you know, when your

585
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: circuitry says like this is my survival mechanism, It overrides everything.

586
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: And even though that survival mechanism is what is what

587
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: is killing you when your brain is like, this is

588
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: what keeps me, you know.

589
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: Keeps me alive, and that's what it is.

590
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: That's like, this is my coping mechanism, this is my

591
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: survival mechanism. I need to do this to avoid like

592
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: the pain inside of me. That's what I need to

593
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: do to survive. That's what gets me over it. So

594
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: drinking water literally exactly, and it's like your brain is

595
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: over and no matter how much you're like, I don't

596
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: want to do this, I know this is real life.

597
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: Your brain just goes bad. Luck buddy, you we're doing that.

598
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: And I love watching football and I hate when those

599
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: ads of like and it's only men. It's like you've

600
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: got ship mates if they're not on mates bed with

601
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: your fucking mates, you have good mates if you're not

602
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 2: already in a chat with a fucking multi with multi mates,

603
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: you know, and it's always the guy who's a loser

604
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 2: by himself. Yeah, Or I've seen fucking ads where guys

605
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 2: are going into water together. We're in colorful suits, right,

606
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 2: and it's and it'll go at the end. Yeah, Like

607
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 2: how fucking vulnerable? Are these people? Like twenty five billion

608
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: dollars to it was I think it was to April

609
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: this year.

610
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: It was his other biggest gamma loser per capita out

611
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: of everywhere. And I've seen this that the other day

612
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: that said something like we have three percent two percent

613
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: of the world's population and we have fifty percent of

614
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: the world's poking machines. Oh man, when you get to

615
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: that point and it's literally the money and there's entire

616
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: industries and cultures built on it, how do you how

617
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: do you break how do you break down institutions that

618
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,479
Speaker 1: have been literally built on that, and those institutions are

619
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: now so large, you know, And as I said to you,

620
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: you know that is not a gambling is not a

621
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: regular league issue. Gambling is a cultural issue. Oh yeah, yeah,

622
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: I've had you know, I have mates who are just

623
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: plumbers and sparkys and who have had the exact same

624
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: issues with me. And then you see you go to

625
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: the pub on a weekend and on a Saturday, who's

626
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: the tab filled with? It's filled with young blokes like

627
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: you know, into twenty five thirty, they're packed out in

628
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: pubs every Saturday, betting at the tab. It's just it

629
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: is ingrained into our culture.

630
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 2: Ultimately, it's just trying to connect. It just trying to

631
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: connect with people over something familiar.

632
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: You know. It's belonging as well, which is something I think.

633
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: You know, many people are starved off and when you're

634
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: with your mates and everyone's betting on a Saturday, like,

635
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: that's the place you belong. There's a place where you

636
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: can draw you know. Yeah, you can draw value in

637
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: the world from while you lose value, while you really

638
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: really decimate your value.

639
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, taking a quick moment away from Luke back in

640
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 2: a moment to talk about reading for a sec. When

641
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: you're a kid, books are part of it or was

642
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: you know, was it just throwing footies around?

643
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: No, Reading was a massive part of my childhood. Oh,

644
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: huge part of my childhood. I always had books. I've

645
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: talked about this very openly for a while and now

646
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: I was so ashamed around my book reading.

647
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 2: I loved reading.

648
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: Fancy books, and I did it all the time, like

649
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: flat out as a kid. But always at home, always

650
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: in private, always just yeah, always where I was on

651
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: my own with my mom.

652
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 2: My.

653
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: Mum was a massive reader and her dad, actually my

654
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: grandfather was a massive reader as well, and that's where

655
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: I picked it up from because Mum was always reading,

656
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: so we I was just read my mum. Yeah, that's

657
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: just what you did.

658
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 2: And when you said read with like you would read

659
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 2: the same book at the same.

660
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 1: Time or well, I would make Mum read my books,

661
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: so I would read like a real good book and

662
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: then i'd take it to Mom and I'd be like, Mom, like,

663
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: you have to read this book.

664
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 2: This is such a good book.

665
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: And Mum would read my books with me and then

666
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: we'd like discuss them and we talk about them. And

667
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: to this day still we still talk about like the

668
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: books that her and I've read going up.

669
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 2: I do love that.

670
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: Yeah it is it was nice. It was nice, mate,

671
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: It was nice. My mom a very special relationship.

672
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 2: That's you know, it's lovely to hear you talk about,

673
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: you know, your mum and your stepdad like that.

674
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: Me and my mom read together. But outside of that,

675
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: like I never would ever have let any of the

676
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: boys at school know only like the footy boys. I

677
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: would never let anyone know that I was a big reader.

678
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: You talk about shame, but I was a card carrying

679
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 2: member for the Queensland Role Play Society I was playing

680
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 2: dungeons and dragons were oh yeah, man at twelve sick

681
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: matetely when it was like just no, that's so cool nrds.

682
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: I actually like there's a part of me that I

683
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: have to grieve, like not having had that opportunity when

684
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: I was a kid.

685
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 2: What was it about fantasy though that I mean, you know,

686
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 2: you're in the middle of western Queensland. It all looks

687
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: very similar out there. There's a lot of it that

688
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 2: looks the same.

689
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: I think that that's why I loved fantasy so much

690
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: is because I was I had such a vivid imagination

691
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: and whenever I'd watch movies and things like that, I

692
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: would just always be living in these different worlds in

693
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: my head. My mum hates it. She always says that

694
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: I'm in La la Land, and I truly was, because

695
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: I would just detach from reality and I'd just be

696
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: in a room, but I'd just be elsewhere, just envisioning

697
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: something or living in a different life. And that's why

698
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: that's why I fell into fantasy, is because when I

699
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: was reading these fantasy books, I actually felt a place

700
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 1: of belonging and I felt somewhere where I felt normal.

701
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 2: Because when I was in the real world. I wasn't.

702
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: I just kept being I don't. I don't fit here,

703
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: like I'm not normal here. You're growing up in a

704
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: hard rest in Queensland where everyone you know, blue collar worker,

705
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: and I just didn't see parts of myself represented in

706
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: the world around me. But I saw those parts represented

707
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 1: in books. Like the magic that I sort of felt

708
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: in my brain was in books. So I just fell

709
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: into that and it just felt like a place of belonging.

710
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: Have you gone through phrases in your life where you

711
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 2: stopped reading all the time?

712
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I was when I was addicted, when I

713
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: went through depression, when I went through addiction, and when

714
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: I went through just like a lack of direction and hopelessness,

715
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: I wasn't reading. And what comes first to chicken on

716
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: the egg, you know. But in my recovery, like reading

717
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: was one of the key things that allowed me to

718
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 1: reconnect with myself and me into great all of the

719
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: parts of me that I discarded.

720
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 2: It is one of It is one of those habits

721
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 2: that if you fall out of it and now it's

722
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 2: so easy because there's just so much tiny little amounts

723
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: of dopamine in a distraction on a screen in front

724
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: of you all the time, and I don't know if

725
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 2: you reread something like I've read The Godfather like five times.

726
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 2: Yeah book, you pick it up and again like oh

727
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 2: that's right this yeah, yeah, yeah, it's incredible.

728
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

729
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: Why did you decide like I'm just going to start

730
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: doing you know, talking about it. I mean there's you know,

731
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 2: there's blokes you talk about mental health, and there's blokes

732
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 2: to talk about beers don't talk about footy. A lot

733
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 2: of blokes talking about written nah man.

734
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: Not many blokes of about reading, which is one of

735
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: the reasons I wanted to h And this was a

736
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: part of my journey back to myself. I discarded. You know,

737
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,439
Speaker 1: there were many younger versions of myself. I've done it.

738
00:37:58,520 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: I did a lot of in a.

739
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 2: Child, a lot of ifs.

740
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: If you know what IFS is, what's that sample internal

741
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: family systems, which is richerd So a psychologist in America,

742
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: Richard Swartz, He's the father of ifs, internal family systems.

743
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 2: I've done it, and I hadn't realized what it is.

744
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: It's in the child work, it's part it's parts work.

745
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: So it's parts work, and I've done a lot of it.

746
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: And parts work is just all the different inner versions

747
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: of yourself and all the different parts of yourself. And

748
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: I had to do a lot of that, And through

749
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: that journey was a lot of talking to younger versions

750
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: of myself and listen to what they needed and listen

751
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 1: to you know, I have done it, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

752
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: you would have done it in some form. Just listen

753
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: to what like the parts of me that were in

754
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: pain were younger parts of me that weren't heard and

755
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 1: we're just yeah, we're being pushed aside and having having

756
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: gambling and alcohol inducts poured on top of them to

757
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: keep them silent. So I was reconnecting with them. And

758
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: during that journey, you know, I've rediscovered my reading and

759
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: I and fantasy books were not only a way for

760
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: me to rediscover myself, but they also and as you know,

761
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: like recovery is really difficult, and that and that journey

762
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: to is that word again, that journey is so hard

763
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: and just as painful, just as painful as the descent.

764
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,959
Speaker 1: The ascent is just as painful, a different kind of pain.

765
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: But during that that fantacsy books gave me the like

766
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: the reprieve and the respite from the world I was

767
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: trying to like because it is hard.

768
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 2: It is hard work, and I've done the work you're

769
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 2: talking about, and.

770
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: Those parts of me they just wanted to They wanted

771
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: to be recognized, and they wanted to be a part

772
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: of who I was as a person. And that's why

773
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: I started talking about books, because about fantasy books, because

774
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 1: I just I've spent thirty years my life having so

775
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: much shame and secrecy around such a massive part of

776
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: who I am, and I'd never been a part of

777
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: a community. I'd never had any friends or wider world

778
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: where I could explore the stories and the fantasy and

779
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: the books that I loved, and I just and I

780
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: got to the point where I was like, I'm not

781
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: going to continue my life any longer without finding a

782
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: community where I can express this part of me.

783
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 2: And that's why I started talking about books right well,

784
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: to feel like when the reaction that happened, which was explosive,

785
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 2: showed up, Yeah, but it.

786
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: Was very anxiety inducing because what I pictured was I'm

787
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 1: going to talk about fancy books and there'll be five

788
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: people that will see the video, and I just wanted

789
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: to I was like, no one will see this video. Well,

790
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: I won't you know, this won't be a massive reveal

791
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: to the world, Like this can just be in baby

792
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: steps and I'll just find some close friends quietly.

793
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

794
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: And then I put my first video up and it

795
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: had got like two moon views and it was funny

796
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: because I actually had a number of messages from like

797
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,919
Speaker 1: football blokes.

798
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 2: Sort of like taking the.

799
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: Piss out of me about it, and I was just

800
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: and then in a way, it was actually nice that

801
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: I sort of just got thrown in the deep end

802
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: because I just had to. I was just like, well,

803
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: I don't have a choice now, Yeah, this is just

804
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: what it is. I have to confront this, and I

805
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: have to face my fear, and my fear was I

806
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: don't want people to know that I'm a nerd, you know.

807
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: And then I just got thrown in the deep end,

808
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: and it was like, you have to face this now.

809
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 2: I'm sorry that you went through what you went through

810
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 2: when oh, don't be After it kicked off and people went, well,

811
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 2: if you really like it, we can see an opportunity

812
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 2: for you and for us here. How about we both

813
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 2: work together on something. And then people are mad at

814
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 2: you forgetting opportunity they didn't have, and that I'm sorry

815
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 2: that I'm a bit annoyed that they happened to you.

816
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't think in any way, shape or form,

817
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: I hold any resentment or like a gradual dislike about that,

818
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: because that's such a I completely empathize with the reaction

819
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: that received. The reaction came with the information available. I

820
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: know my whole story, I know everything that went through.

821
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: I know it. All people don't, so their reaction was

822
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: based off of like a limited amount of information.

823
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 2: It all happened very quickly. It happened quickly in your eyes.

824
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 2: It happened quickly. I'm sorry, it happened quickly in my eyes.

825
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 2: Happened quickly in the public size. But two to go

826
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: from zero to two million very quickly, to be thrown

827
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 2: in the deep end. And now, oh, would you like

828
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 2: to write some stuff? Why did you say yes to it?

829
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: I started writing my book in January, and when I

830
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: pitched to the publisher, already I had the entire trilogy

831
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: planned out, So I'd already started writing my book because

832
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: I just said, I don't I don't want to get

833
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: to my deathbed and look back and not have written

834
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: a book. So I just was I just had to

835
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: do it for myself.

836
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 2: Way to start with. The only pressure you've got is

837
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 2: your own. That's good. Well yeah, And it was all

838
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 2: part of like.

839
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: You would know, like a future self exercise, so you like,

840
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: what do you want to be when you're eighty and

841
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: then you re and then like you reverse engineer that.

842
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 2: So that was a part of that process.

843
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, when I'm eighty, I want

844
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: to be a person who's written a book, So I

845
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: need to start writing a book because I'm not going

846
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: to start writing book when I'm seventy nine.

847
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 2: So I started writing the book and then.

848
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: Obviously the social stuff game traction, and I said to

849
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: my manager, I said I want to be an author

850
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 1: one day and my manager said why wait, and I

851
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: was like, well that's a great question. So yeah, so

852
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: we reached out and I took all I had ten

853
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: thousand words written, I had an entire trilogy planned out,

854
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: I had characters, a character arcs, plot arcs, themes for

855
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 1: all the books. Took it all to them, pitched it

856
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: all to them, and they said, we love it.

857
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 2: You know, there's people who say I've gone to therapy,

858
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 2: and there's people who say, you know, I spoke to

859
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 2: someone the kind of stuff that you've been speaking about.

860
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: It's clear that you've done some pretty serious work. It's

861
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 2: pretty and rightly so, because it was life or death.

862
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 2: And I understand that what would you say to man

863
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 2: about why would they need to go to therapy? Why

864
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 2: would I want to ask my four year old me anything? Oh,

865
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 2: it's a great question.

866
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: I think the way that I would encourage or make it,

867
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: make it something that the men then see it as. Oh,

868
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: I know that, actually I need to do this. And

869
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 1: this is a quote from James Allen and says men

870
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:14,919
Speaker 1: can't move within and stand still without. And I think

871
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: all men, you know, want to achieve something. And if

872
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: you want to achieve something in your outer life, you

873
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: must first have your inner world in order. If you

874
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: want to do big things in the world, if you

875
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: want to achieve, if you want to, if you want to,

876
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: if you want to achieve your worldly goals, you must

877
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 1: do in a work that you cannot achieve in the

878
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: world if you have not got your inner world in order.

879
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: And I would if you pitch to men like that,

880
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: if you want to go of whatever, your goals are

881
00:45:55,600 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 1: unachievable unless you get your yet inside yourself right that's

882
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 1: never going to happen, and when you I would pitch

883
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: it to men like that, we.

884
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 2: May not realize that we've got these unconscious choices within

885
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 2: us that keep these patterns repeating in our lives, because

886
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, it's a survival mechand and we just

887
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 2: do what works or what has been working. But at

888
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 2: some point it stops working, and at some point it

889
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 2: starts to not be good. We might not realize we're

890
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 2: in it. What would you say to people about how

891
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 2: they might check to see if they're where they want

892
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:39,280
Speaker 2: to be and if they've tried everything they're doing, maybe

893
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 2: maybe it could be time for some other radios.

894
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: It's a hard question to answer for me because I

895
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,320
Speaker 1: would answer it as the person that I am now,

896
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: But I know that the person I was when I

897
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: was wayward probably wouldn't probably would hear what I have

898
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: to say now, would disregard it and not listen to it.

899
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 2: So so what would you say to that? What would

900
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,439
Speaker 2: you say to twenty five year old Luke?

901
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 1: I would say, do you feel confused? Do you feel

902
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: in pain? Do you feel misery that you don't understand

903
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: and that you can't describe? And if your answer to

904
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: that is yes, then you need to seek help, and

905
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: you need to seek knowledge, and you need to seek

906
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 1: tools and awareness to be able to help with That's

907
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 1: that's the way that I would frame it to that blow,

908
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: because I think that's the only way because that person

909
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 1: that that Luke, he wouldn't have understood though I could

910
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 1: give him the best advice in the world, but he

911
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,280
Speaker 1: wasn't in a place or capable of understanding that advice

912
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,919
Speaker 1: or he knew or the only answer that he would

913
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,919
Speaker 1: have been able to give me is that I don't

914
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: understand what I'm feeling.

915
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, I can't.

916
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: It's a can you describe what's happening? And his answer

917
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: would be no. And if that's your answer, then then

918
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 1: you need help. And I would also say to anyone

919
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: who's in that place, no matter how long it takes

920
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: you or how hard it is, every bit of it

921
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: is worth it because the amount of joy that I

922
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:37,800
Speaker 1: feel today, nothing that I felt before could compare it

923
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: to the amount of like joy and fulfillment that I

924
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 1: feel today.

925
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 2: I started podcasting when I was still explaining to people

926
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 2: what it was, and I would I spent the first

927
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 2: four years podcasting grabbing someone else's phone, downloading the app

928
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,959
Speaker 2: and then showing them how to listen to stuff. And

929
00:48:55,080 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 2: now it is this Why do you why podcasting for you? Firstly,

930
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:02,280
Speaker 2: I love books.

931
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: I love talking about books, and anywhere that I can

932
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: talk about books is a great place for me. So

933
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: podcasting it somewhere I can do that. But I struggle

934
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: with online you get a comment section, it's really hard

935
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: to talk in depth and discuss like you have the

936
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: conversations that you want to have in a a in

937
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: a comment section.

938
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 3: Nobody ever has a comment conversation they want to have

939
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 3: in a comment section ever, So but not before fucking

940
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,399
Speaker 3: you know Trent seven seven sixty six y five five

941
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 3: guys and goes, oh yeah, you probably got the fucking septs.

942
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: Mate, you're off. So podcasts were as a medium where

943
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: I actually will I want to create community and be

944
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 1: able to change people's lives and have long form conversations.

945
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: A lot of reading, though, readings like breathing to me?

946
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 2: How many so tell me what time of day it

947
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 2: is your reading happened. I'm pretty much all audio books

948
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: at the moment.

949
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, because in the chacter, you know, ten hours a day,

950
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: so listen to audiobooks all day, and then I used

951
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 1: to read paperback at night. But now that I'm writing

952
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: my book, writing happens at night, right, So it's all audiobooks, right.

953
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: I am an aficionado of an audiobook myself. I always

954
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: say to people audio books are the best way to

955
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 1: start reading. It is the best way to start reading.

956
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,439
Speaker 1: If you don't like reading, listen audiobooks. The same part

957
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: of your brain lights up when you're listening a book

958
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 1: is when you read. It's no different from reading, and

959
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: it will instill a love into you. And it is

960
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: a gateway to paperback. It's yeah, it's a it's a

961
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: gateway drug too. Yeah, you know, stopping at an airport and.

962
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 2: Going, oh yeah, yeah, I'm nonfiction in the day, dystopian

963
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 2: science fiction at night. Yeah, that is love it, you know,

964
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 2: the weirder and like real super nerdy physics based shit. Yeah,

965
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 2: fucking here for it. Well, good luck, madam what I

966
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,919
Speaker 2: say good luck for you're gonna fucking smash it. Oh thanks,

967
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 2: man to kill it. Appreciate that. I'm absolutely going to

968
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 2: kill it, because again I see it in I one

969
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 2: woman focused group in my house, and I see her

970
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 2: more and more in the last. I mean she was

971
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 2: a reader when I met I met her when she

972
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 2: was ten. She's always read, but more and more I

973
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 2: see her very deliberately leaving her phone somewhere else in

974
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:33,280
Speaker 2: the house and just out the back reading a big,

975
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 2: fat novel, and it just brings me such joy. She's

976
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: not alone in that, which is also really good. I'm

977
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 2: so great for you came in, man, Thank you so

978
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 2: much for making the time goodn mate. It's good to

979
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 2: see you too. Thanks for coming man, Thanks having mate.

980
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: Appreciate that was Luke Bateman. You can find his new podcast.

981
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 2: It's called in the Good Books. Where you found this podcast?

982
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:58,919
Speaker 2: And if this podcast has helped you in any way,

983
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 2: if you thought, you know what I someone who'd like

984
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 2: to hear that, please share it with them. Find that

985
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: little arrow thing in the corner or the little Hamburger

986
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 2: or the Three Dots or whatever it is, what app

987
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 2: you're using, and just share it over to a mate.

988
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 2: It's like it. Subscribe it, follow it, rate it, leave

989
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 2: a comment. All these things really really really help us.

990
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 2: Come and see us at the story Club. Be lovely

991
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:18,399
Speaker 2: to see you in the flesh. I'll sign your book.

992
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 2: You get it somewhat now what you can get it

993
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 2: in the show notes and bring it along to the gig.

994
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 2: I'll be happily to sign your book for you. I'll

995
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 2: see you on the weekend if you can make the show.

996
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 2: If not, I'll see you Monday