Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Christy Cast. Well, I didn't
Speaker 1: have to look very far for an interesting person from
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world for this one, because my guest
Speaker 1: is Australian treasure Lee's Sales. I've loved Lee forever and
Speaker 1: I have so much to talk to her about, and
Speaker 1: also I'm excited to get the opportunity to personally thank
Speaker 1: her for an email she sent me when we had
Speaker 1: never even met, when I was in the depths of
Speaker 1: a pretty brutal public shaming. Welcome to the Chrissy Cast,
Speaker 1: one of my all time faves, the legendary Lee's Sales.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Natzi. If you talk about me
Speaker 2: sending you that nice email, I've got a belief in
Speaker 2: life that if you get public credit for doing a
Speaker 2: nice act, it kind of negates the nice act, right,
Speaker 2: because then it means maybe you just did it so
Speaker 2: you could get some public praise and everyone's saying what
Speaker 2: a nice person you are.
Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying, but this is not public.
Speaker 1: This is just you and me, and I don't think
Speaker 1: I have actually said to you in person how amazing
Speaker 1: it was for that to just pop into my email.
Speaker 1: I found it. I found the actual email, and it
Speaker 1: is from twenty thirteen. Wow, can you believe it? So
Speaker 1: you and I had never met about you at all,
Speaker 1: and you said, Hi, Chrissy, I hope you don't mind
Speaker 1: this uninvited intrusion into your inbox. Of course I did not.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to send you my best wishes and
Speaker 1: support and tell you to hang in there. With all
Speaker 1: the reaction to the smoking thing, it was terrible. If
Speaker 1: you're not across it. I was caught having a sneaky
Speaker 1: fag while I was pregnant, which is a terrible thing
Speaker 1: to do, but my god, I wanted to die. And
Speaker 1: then you said, people sure do love to judge pregnant
Speaker 1: women and young mothers, and as far as I'm concerned,
Speaker 1: they can all go find themselves. And it was so
Speaker 1: nice to hear that, when you know, the other voices
Speaker 1: were saying that my children should be taking off me,
Speaker 1: that there were you know, new Facebook groups, you know,
Speaker 1: organized to bring me down. So thank you so much
Speaker 1: for that.
Speaker 2: You were so welcome. That would have did you say
Speaker 2: that was twenty thirteen? Yeah, okay, so I would have
Speaker 2: been probably pregnant myself because my kids were born in
Speaker 2: twenty twelve and twenty fourteen. Yes, and so nobody I
Speaker 2: think understands how tricky it is being a new mother
Speaker 2: than when you are right in the middle of it,
Speaker 2: right you don't know what you're doing. It's the most
Speaker 2: uncomfortable you ever are. You feel like every day that
Speaker 2: you're stuffing it up. And I just when that happened
Speaker 2: and I saw that in the paper, I just felt
Speaker 2: like and it just went on and on and on,
Speaker 2: and I just felt so bad for you because I
Speaker 2: thought no one will be feeling, you know, more down
Speaker 2: on her self to start with than Chrissy Swan.
Speaker 1: And now to get all of this.
Speaker 2: And so I asked someone who knew us, both, do
Speaker 2: you have an email for Chrissy Swan by any chance?
Speaker 2: And just even the tone of that, I thought I
Speaker 2: was probably enourrage when I said that, because it sounds
Speaker 2: like pregnant woman rage.
Speaker 1: But the thing is what it did for me was
Speaker 1: it encouraged me to reach out to people I've never
Speaker 1: known and just say something nice. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 1: that is such an You sort of think, oh, I
Speaker 1: don't know me, they don't care, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: do it, but they do care. And it does make
Speaker 1: a difference.
Speaker 2: I think even if it's you know, someone that you
Speaker 2: kind of know or like or whatever, that's nice to
Speaker 2: get encouragement from anyone. But if it's even a stranger,
Speaker 2: I think can have a significant impact on you if
Speaker 2: you're feeling low, if they offer a word of encouragement.
Speaker 2: I've been thinking about it a bit this week actually
Speaker 2: with the logis and saying Larry em to get the
Speaker 2: gold LOGI and Rebecca Gibney get acknowledged in the Hall
Speaker 2: of Fame. Now, I've never met Rebecca Givney and I've
Speaker 2: met Larry in passing, but I don't really know him.
Speaker 1: They are both top shelf human beings. Yeah right, I'm
Speaker 1: so thrilled for them by.
Speaker 2: Well, Larry Emder and I think this sort of you know,
Speaker 2: is a lesson for how we all conduct ourselves.
Speaker 1: As I say, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Larry Mda, but kind of what I hear about Larry
Speaker 2: Emda is and not just from you know, other people
Speaker 2: on TV. I'm talking about from Crewe and producers and stuff.
Speaker 2: Larry Emda is a great guy. He's a really generous guy.
Speaker 2: He really looks after his crew and the's people who
Speaker 2: work on his show, and so you hear these echoes
Speaker 2: all the time of what a nice bloke Larry Mda
Speaker 2: is and how much he sort of, you know, bends
Speaker 2: over to help people. And I think that's so good,
Speaker 2: isn't it to just go through life being like that
Speaker 2: and just leaving people feeling good in your wake?
Speaker 1: Yeah, forty years he's been doing this film. Just incredible,
Speaker 1: It is incredible. I asked him one time, like, what's
Speaker 1: your secret? You're so like grateful and happy, and he said,
Speaker 1: I just I never say no. I never say no,
Speaker 1: and I turn up with a good attitude. And I
Speaker 1: thought that's important, and that's what I say to my
Speaker 1: kids now. I'm like, just don't be an asshole, because
Speaker 1: there's always going to be somebody that can do the
Speaker 1: job better than you. But if you're a pleasure to
Speaker 1: be around, you'll always get the.
Speaker 2: Job one hundred percent. And it just I think makes
Speaker 2: the world a kind of better place to go through. Yes,
Speaker 2: So yeah, I sort of I think as well too,
Speaker 2: just having the sense that, particularly in our line of work,
Speaker 2: it can come and go really easily. And so if
Speaker 2: you start kind of believing while I'm here because I
Speaker 2: deserve to be here, or because I'm really good at
Speaker 2: what I do or whatever. I think that's just a
Speaker 2: recipe disaster because things can just very suddenly change.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. I'm in talks at the moment about
Speaker 1: doing a TV show and it might not happen, as
Speaker 1: you know in the business. Somebody said to me, oh,
Speaker 1: why would you do this show? What if it gets axed?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, that is of no concern to me
Speaker 1: because the joy for me is turning up on set
Speaker 1: and chatting to the makeup girls and you know, being
Speaker 1: cheeky with the soundies. Like that's the experience for me totally.
Speaker 2: And I think you kind of maybe it's a thing
Speaker 2: about age, but I think you've reached a point in
Speaker 2: life where I certainly feel like I want to do
Speaker 2: things where I feel connected to the work and that
Speaker 2: I'm excited by it, and whether it fails or not,
Speaker 2: I kind of want to have a go at it.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: So for example, this show The Assembly, Yes, I can't
Speaker 2: wait to talk about The Assembly. Yes, that's starting this week.
Speaker 2: So it's a group of fifteen autistic people who interview
Speaker 2: one prominent person like a politician, celebrity, sporting person and
Speaker 2: some one yeah, and so when it came to me,
Speaker 2: of course, one of the things you think is, well,
Speaker 2: what if I mess this up? What if I misspeak?
Speaker 2: What if I say something that insults somebody? What if
Speaker 2: you know, I do something wrong, I use the wrong word,
Speaker 2: the wrong language to describe somebody with autism.
Speaker 1: Even when I was researching this, I read the sentence
Speaker 1: autistic people, and I thought, is that right? I shouldn't
Speaker 1: be people with autistics.
Speaker 2: I did exactly the same, and I checked it. I
Speaker 2: went and checked it with the Peak Autism group, and
Speaker 2: they said, it's autistic people, right. But you know, it's
Speaker 2: exactly what you say. It's things like that that you
Speaker 2: want to be respectful and say the right thing. And
Speaker 2: sometimes the way society works these days, if you are
Speaker 2: well intentioned, but you make a mistake, then you get
Speaker 2: a pylon. Yeah, And so I thought about things like that,
Speaker 2: and then I felt like, but hang on, I think
Speaker 2: this is a really worthwhile and interesting project that I'd
Speaker 2: like to do, and I don't want to be fearful
Speaker 2: of how people might react and that dissuading me from
Speaker 2: doing something that I think is good. Yeah, it was
Speaker 2: interesting what you said before too, about how Larry says
Speaker 2: yes to everything, because I feel like as I've gotten older,
Speaker 2: the key to being a bit happier has been learning
Speaker 2: to say no to more things.
Speaker 1: Yes, but and me too, and I've got to be
Speaker 1: better at that. But I am so irrationally enthusiastic, as
Speaker 1: you describe your podcast about so many things, and I
Speaker 1: say yes too much because I value you fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I can sort of identify what is going to
Speaker 1: be fun for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, same here. But the things that I've learned to
Speaker 2: say no to are the things that I don't think
Speaker 2: are going to be fun, but that I feel obliged
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: So people chasing me for oh, we must have a
Speaker 2: coffee or whatever, and I feel kind of nagged and
Speaker 2: like I'm just too busy and I can't fit it in.
Speaker 2: But then I just I do it. I say yes
Speaker 2: just to kind of get them off my case or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I've started being firmer, prioritizing, well, I need some me
Speaker 2: space sometimes and I can't keep everybody else happy the
Speaker 2: whole time.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And in fact, I sometimes we'll write in my diary
Speaker 2: like say, you know, I've been asked to go to
Speaker 2: dinner or something, and I've said no because it's a
Speaker 2: busy week. I'll write in the diary seven pm presently
Speaker 2: congratulates past Lee for saying no to the dinner that
Speaker 2: was happening right now.
Speaker 1: Or if something works out, I go good call. I'm
Speaker 1: past Chrissy, future Chrissy. Thanks you. It's like, how do
Speaker 1: we know? I found though that all I want to
Speaker 1: do is fun things and then organize things in containers
Speaker 1: and build fires and they you know, there's this big
Speaker 1: sort of buzz trend of self care, and for a
Speaker 1: long time I thought, oh, does that mean having a
Speaker 1: book in for a massage, because I can't be bothered.
Speaker 1: I don't want another appointment. You know. I try and
Speaker 1: treat myself to a pedicure, and I cancel and cancel
Speaker 1: and cancel. But I've worked out that my personal self
Speaker 1: care is burning things and organizing things into containers. That
Speaker 1: gives me unbridal joy. Do you have something specific like
Speaker 1: that I do?
Speaker 2: And that's so good that you have worked out out,
Speaker 2: because sometimes I think people aren't sure what it is
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: It's music.
Speaker 2: I've always played the piano, but a couple of years
Speaker 2: ago I started learning the cello, and I find it
Speaker 2: very meditative, and I don't know if it's because it's
Speaker 2: so different to what I do in my job because
Speaker 2: it's using like hand die coordination. Obviously, I like cooking
Speaker 2: a lot as well, And oddly I find cooking and
Speaker 2: music not dissimilar because you're reading instructions on a piece
Speaker 2: of paper in front of you and you're translating what
Speaker 2: you're seeing there into actions with your hands. It's often rhythmic,
Speaker 2: and then something nice is produced at the end.
Speaker 1: This is so interesting because I find if I've got
Speaker 1: things that I need to do, and I think it
Speaker 1: says how I discovered how walking changed my life. If
Speaker 1: I'm not doing anything with my hands or something auxiliary,
Speaker 1: I can't think. I can't do anything. I need to
Speaker 1: be doing something in order to think, and sometimes that's
Speaker 1: walking or sometimes it's cooking, and I solve all my problems.
Speaker 1: It's like I have to get started doing something and
Speaker 1: then my brain starts working.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting. So is it because you're taking the
Speaker 2: pressure off to a degree because you're not just going right,
Speaker 2: I need to think about this problem, that there's something
Speaker 2: else going on.
Speaker 1: What do you think my I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but my gut feel is that my body needs to
Speaker 1: be moving in order for my brain to move.
Speaker 2: That's so interesting. Yeah, I wonder if there's I bet
Speaker 2: you there's some science or something that would actually explain.
Speaker 1: That, because that is absolute fact for me, Like completely.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised to hear that you like cooking, because your
Speaker 1: podcast Chat ten looks three. You are the anti chef.
Speaker 1: When did this happen? I do. I love cooking.
Speaker 2: What I'm anti is having to race around and find
Speaker 2: weird ingredients Crabs forever cooking.
Speaker 1: With You know, you need one star anise, Champagne says
Speaker 1: as soon as he hits star anise on the recipe,
Speaker 1: it's out.
Speaker 2: I deal with star and age. I can't deal with
Speaker 2: Like Crab had this recipe. We have this thing called
Speaker 2: kefla Gravria, and I was like, that's the one in
Speaker 2: one Wimbledon in nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 1: Greek cheese, great cheese.
Speaker 2: Like mate, I am not driving around to find that.
Speaker 1: Oh no, Palmes, it'll do exactly.
Speaker 2: So I don't kind of like that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: But I do enjoy the process of cooking, and obviously
Speaker 2: I also enjoy eating. But Cello, just to go back
Speaker 2: to that is. The thing that helps me out is
Speaker 2: not what you just described about having activity. It's doing
Speaker 2: an activity that takes enough concentration that it breaks my
Speaker 2: brain out of whatever I'm ruminating on at work or
Speaker 2: whatever's worrying me, so that it gives me a break
Speaker 2: from my regular you know, thought patterns. So I need
Speaker 2: something that absorbs my brain basically to slow down my
Speaker 2: thought process.
Speaker 1: Right, like a distraction.
Speaker 2: Like a distraction. And so that's why I say it
Speaker 2: feels kind of meditative because it's kind of I guess
Speaker 2: you're getting into like a flow kind of stage. And
Speaker 2: there's no shortcutting of the process with music practice either,
Speaker 2: like you have to just be in it and doing it.
Speaker 1: It worries me. I've got I know that you've got kids.
Speaker 1: How old are they?
Speaker 2: Twelve and ten?
Speaker 1: Okay, So I've got an eleven year old and I
Speaker 1: have noticed that her attention span is approximately four seconds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she doesn't like to read, she doesn't like to do
Speaker 1: anything that requires even a modicum of concentration. And I
Speaker 1: worry about that.
Speaker 2: I think we might be moving into an era where
Speaker 2: jobs and life and everything is going to change to
Speaker 2: suit short attention span because I think a lot of.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think my attention span is shorter than
Speaker 2: mine to do so I think that the nature of
Speaker 2: technology is shortening attention span and that's going to be
Speaker 2: interesting to see. Then, well, how a workplace is designed
Speaker 2: and what do we end up doing around that?
Speaker 1: You are so busy, and I mean you're an author, journalist,
Speaker 1: TV host, podcaster, mother, all of those things. What is
Speaker 1: your internal voice saying when people complain about how busy
Speaker 1: or tired they are.
Speaker 2: I think, firstly, nobody really cares, is the first. I
Speaker 2: feel like it's a kind of boring topic of conversation
Speaker 2: because I think we all kind of feel busy, right,
Speaker 2: I think we all feel busy, and so it's kind
Speaker 2: of I catch myself saying it because I'll be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm so busy, I'm so tired, and I just think, well,
Speaker 2: it's your choice to do what.
Speaker 1: You that's right.
Speaker 2: So I try to kind of when I'm feeling like
Speaker 2: I've got so much and I'm so busy, to say
Speaker 2: to myself, this is how you choose to be And
Speaker 2: to be honest, I kind of often go through these
Speaker 2: patches where I go, right, the next six months, I'm
Speaker 2: going to after this busy patch. I'm going to keep
Speaker 2: that diary empty, and I'm not going to.
Speaker 1: I have lost account of the amounts of time said
Speaker 1: after I get through this, life's going to be I've
Speaker 1: been saying that for over twenty.
Speaker 2: Years, I know, and it just kind of stays busy.
Speaker 2: But I've kind of reached a position where I feel like,
Speaker 2: you know what, I enjoy being busy and a bit
Speaker 2: like you, I have a lot of things going on
Speaker 2: that I find really fun and that I feel like
Speaker 2: I'd hate to get to the end of my life
Speaker 2: and think, well, I could have gone to London and
Speaker 2: done a chat ten show, but I felt like I
Speaker 2: needed to keep some space in my diary. I kind
Speaker 2: of like having the adventures and doing you know, the
Speaker 2: different things. And you know, people often talk about on
Speaker 2: nobody on their deathbed says they wish is they'd spent
Speaker 2: more time at work. I actually think, on my deathbed,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go I am so grateful for the
Speaker 2: most fascinating, interesting job that I had and all the
Speaker 2: great adventures it gave me, and what a lucky, lucky person.
Speaker 1: Resolutely, I accepted for a long time that mantra that
Speaker 1: you know you are not your work. Work is just
Speaker 1: something you do, not who you are. And I felt
Speaker 1: very like relieved when I admitted to myself and others
Speaker 1: that that doesn't apply to me. I am my work.
Speaker 1: I am It's so important to me. It's my hobby,
Speaker 1: it's my fun, it's my connection, it's everything. And I
Speaker 1: feel really lucky actually that is the case.
Speaker 2: That's again so good that you've been able to accept that,
Speaker 2: because I feel the same about that as well. Although
Speaker 2: I did, obviously when I left seven thirty kind of
Speaker 2: rethink my relationship to work and what I wanted out
Speaker 2: of work. And I think it's a process that evolves,
Speaker 2: you know, throughout your life. But I think so often
Speaker 2: it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking, oh, well,
Speaker 2: people think I'm a workaholic or people think this, and
Speaker 2: it's kind of like, no, no, that's irrelevant. It's what
Speaker 2: do you want and what do you think and what's
Speaker 2: right for you and your family and so on.
Speaker 1: I think it's irrelevant what people think about anything you
Speaker 1: do in your life. M Yeah, And I think once
Speaker 1: you really realize that, there's such freedom and happiness totally.
Speaker 2: As I said, I didn't trink the tame they can
Speaker 2: just all gay fund themselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because nobody's in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's right. It's your life. You're the one
Speaker 2: who's living it. And that's the thing for me when
Speaker 2: I was saying like social obligations. If I feel overwhelmed
Speaker 2: and I don't want to do, the person who pays
Speaker 2: the price for that is me. And also I feel
Speaker 2: conscious often that my children, right, and anytime that I
Speaker 2: don't spend with me and my children and I make
Speaker 2: a choice to do something else, that's taking me away
Speaker 2: from them. Yeah, So I always kind of try to think,
Speaker 2: all right, well, who do I want to make happy here?
Speaker 2: Me and my children, and then you know, obviously my
Speaker 2: close circle of friends and people i'm tight with and
Speaker 2: so on. But after that, I feel like I don't
Speaker 2: really have obligations to make everyone else happy. Whether they
Speaker 2: like me or not for it, it doesn't matter. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what are your top four priorities?
Speaker 1: I worked mine out, and when I get overwhelmed and crazy,
Speaker 1: I sort of revisit that and I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. I've established that these are my priorities. Do
Speaker 1: you mean like values or like things to do or
Speaker 1: I guess people and reservoirs for your energy. Mine are kids, work, me,
Speaker 1: everything else, and sometimes the last me is the hardest
Speaker 1: to squeeze in there.
Speaker 2: I would agree with that. I was thinking, my friends
Speaker 2: are very very important to me, and I'm lucky enough
Speaker 2: that I have some really old, longstanding friendships and they
Speaker 2: are just super valuable, and so I do particularly in
Speaker 2: the past few years. I don't know if it's spent
Speaker 2: turning fifty or something, but I've really made an effort
Speaker 2: to make sure I spend quality time with people who
Speaker 2: are important to How do.
Speaker 1: You do that? Is it a phone call?
Speaker 2: Well, so, for example, my oldest friend from school who
Speaker 2: lived around the corner and we met when we were nine.
Speaker 2: That's one of those friendships where you can not talk
Speaker 2: for a long time, but then you just kind of
Speaker 2: pick up where you left off and you just jabber
Speaker 2: on forever. So we decided this year we went away
Speaker 2: with our families for our fortieth and then we just
Speaker 2: turned fifty, so we said, let's go away for a weekend,
Speaker 2: and so we went to Kangaroo Valley in New South Wales.
Speaker 2: So she flew down from Queensland. We had three or
Speaker 2: four days away and so you just hang out. But
Speaker 2: we don't do that very often. But that was just
Speaker 2: a really lovely thing to do.
Speaker 1: Are you a phone call person? I find it very hard.
Speaker 2: Less and less I used to be in my twenties,
Speaker 2: but now I'm more kind of like, I prefer to
Speaker 2: text because I can squeeze it in as I'm doing
Speaker 2: other things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't like the question how was your day?
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about it. I've lived it.
Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting. Nobody really ever asks me how is
Speaker 2: my day? Because my children don't give us stuff. They
Speaker 2: ask me, Mum, what's for dinner?
Speaker 1: Yes? Absolutely, and mine too, And I'm grateful for that
Speaker 1: because I don't want to go through a blow, blow
Speaker 1: by blow account of all the stuff I've done. I've
Speaker 1: done it.
Speaker 2: I wonder sometimes as well, if it's because you and
Speaker 2: I talk all day in our jobs and so you
Speaker 2: kind of a bit talked out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I've got nothing to say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just kind of want a bit of peace.
Speaker 1: You know how I wear a bum bag all the time.
Speaker 1: It's changed my life. Really, I am going to give
Speaker 1: you one before you go.
Speaker 2: Okay, why why why is it changed your life?
Speaker 1: Because I have everything I need on me ah, and
Speaker 1: I strapped one on a few years ago and an
Speaker 1: entire field of worry was just lifted off my head.
Speaker 1: And people people are always like, why are I going
Speaker 1: a bumba. I'm like, because I can't live without it.
Speaker 1: It's got my keys, it's got my phone, it's got everything.
Speaker 1: I never have to go. Shit, where is it? I've
Speaker 1: forgotten it? Yeah? And because it hands free, yes, and
Speaker 1: it's a bird's eye view. When I open it, I
Speaker 1: can see everything. Okay, all right, it's magical and I'm
Speaker 1: going to give you one.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: But as part of the Christy Cast, I play a
Speaker 1: game called What's in the Belly Bag? And I'm we're
Speaker 1: going to trick it up because the item I have
Speaker 1: in here doesn't.
Speaker 2: Fit in it.
Speaker 1: Okay, But I'm going to hand you the belly bag
Speaker 1: and then you're going to open it, and then I'm
Speaker 1: going to reveal what.
Speaker 2: Is okay in there? All right, sale, Okay, what's in
Speaker 2: the belly bag? What is in the belly bag is
Speaker 2: a bunt in a bunch, beautiful bunch.
Speaker 1: What does that mean to you?
Speaker 2: Okay? It reminds me immediately of Annabel Kram and this
Speaker 2: in joke that we've got where we call people smug bunchs.
Speaker 1: Now, let's just clarify this belly. It is bu mdt.
Speaker 2: That's all right. It's like in one of those molded
Speaker 2: kind of German cakes that you sprinkleizing chagarn. So we
Speaker 2: were shooting a show, oh, it must have been twenty
Speaker 2: sixteen fifteen called when I Get a minute, and there's
Speaker 2: an episode where I make a cake in a bunt
Speaker 2: in and we do as Crab calls at the dismount
Speaker 2: and bunted if you haven't greased it properly because of
Speaker 2: all the little patterns, it's hard to get it out.
Speaker 2: And your tip to grease it is it just lots
Speaker 2: of butter melted yeah, yeah, and using a bra hated
Speaker 2: on to get into all the nooks and nooks and
Speaker 2: crannies and then let it cool a bit because it'll
Speaker 2: shrink a little bit so and then flip it up
Speaker 2: and off you go. And so when I did on
Speaker 2: the TV show The Dismount, obviously you know many a
Speaker 2: time I've done a bunt cake in half it remains
Speaker 2: in the tin, yes, and it came out absolutely flawlessly,
Speaker 2: and Crab just on the spot when you smug Butt,
Speaker 2: Your podcast is extraordinary.
Speaker 1: What does it mean to you? Is it sense of
Speaker 1: Are you astonished by the sense of community?
Speaker 2: Absolutely astonished. And this is a classic example of what
Speaker 2: you were talking about before about saying yes to something
Speaker 2: because it sounds fun and not really having any plan
Speaker 2: or sense of where it might go. So when it
Speaker 2: started ten years ago, was just us talking into a
Speaker 2: phone and kind of like this actually just recording a
Speaker 2: free flowing conversation, and then it just kind of built
Speaker 2: and built, and then people the way people would interact
Speaker 2: with us in public. We started feeling like, gee, I
Speaker 2: feel like there's people listening to this. And then we
Speaker 2: set up a Facebook group so that we weren't the spokes,
Speaker 2: we weren't the center of all the spokes, so they
Speaker 2: could communicate with each other great and then that created
Speaker 2: a real community basically around it. And I often when
Speaker 2: I think of my career, it's one of the things
Speaker 2: I feel like if I walked out of here and
Speaker 2: dropped dead. Today, I do think it's one of the
Speaker 2: things that I'm the most proud of because I feel
Speaker 2: like it has made a tangible, positive difference to people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I'm so grateful and thrilled and just surprised by that.
Speaker 2: It's been awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's wonderful. Me my friends just can't get enough
Speaker 1: of it, never ever stop. Just before we hit record
Speaker 1: on this, we were talking about our lack of trust
Speaker 1: in our own skills. And last night, I mean, I've
Speaker 1: been putting aside bits and pieces of information about this
Speaker 1: podcast with you for weeks, and I even enlisted the
Speaker 1: help of my daughter. Last night. I said, do you
Speaker 1: want to do you want to assist me? And then
Speaker 1: she had an old exercise book and her one question
Speaker 1: to you was what was it like being a correspondent
Speaker 1: in Washington from two thousand and something. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's interesting. I couldn't know that. Yeah, so answer that
Speaker 1: and then we'll move on to our mistrust of our
Speaker 1: own abilities.
Speaker 2: So that was really an amazing life experience. So I
Speaker 2: was twenty eight, it was just after nine to eleven,
Speaker 2: and I went for four years to be the ABC's
Speaker 2: Washington correspondent. So it was just it feels like when
Speaker 2: you live in Washington that you're living in a movie, right,
Speaker 2: because you're in a cab and you see the White
Speaker 2: House or the capitals. So that never wore off for me.
Speaker 2: Or you'd be driving to the airport and you pass
Speaker 2: the sign for the CIA at Langley. It's just like,
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm living in a movie. So that
Speaker 2: was kind of thrilling. Things like if you'd go to
Speaker 2: the Pentagon for a story, I'd be just trying to
Speaker 2: seem cool, but I'd be like, I'm in the It's
Speaker 2: so cool, so cool. So that was just a really
Speaker 2: brilliant experience. One of the best things other than that
Speaker 2: the job was interesting, was my dearest friend Lisa Miller,
Speaker 2: was posted at the same time in Washington Amazing, so
Speaker 2: we just had the greatest time. It was just did
Speaker 2: you share an apartment and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: Both married at the time, so we lived around the
Speaker 2: corner from each other, but we were in each other's pockets,
Speaker 2: you know, NonStop. It was fantastic. Now the marriage has
Speaker 2: five but the French, well.
Speaker 1: That's the important thing. Do you believe that romantic love exists?
Speaker 1: I know that your friends are very important to you
Speaker 1: and to me too, and the love I feel for
Speaker 1: them and the love I feel for my kids is
Speaker 1: like unconditional. What do you think about partner love?
Speaker 2: I think that's a really interesting question. That's something my
Speaker 2: friends and I talk about a lot about that, particularly
Speaker 2: if you've been married before, and would you do it
Speaker 2: again kind of thing. I think that I read this
Speaker 2: article recently about this group of people in France who
Speaker 2: were single, and they decided they were going to have
Speaker 2: a dinner every Sunday night and attempt with their friendship
Speaker 2: group to replicate the dynamic of a family, and.
Speaker 1: They got I just panicked at the idea of something
Speaker 1: every Sunday night. No way, I'm saying no future. Christie
Speaker 1: says it's sorry, I can't make it exactly.
Speaker 2: And that their theory was friendship is the new kind
Speaker 2: of primary relationship that we expect too much from our
Speaker 2: romantic partners. That we expect our romantic partners to meet
Speaker 2: every kind of need in our life, but actually you
Speaker 2: need multiple people to meet different needs. And I kind
Speaker 2: of feel like I'm a bit of a subscriber to
Speaker 2: that view. Yes, I don't kind of believe you. Watch
Speaker 2: now that I say this, I'll walk out of here,
Speaker 2: meet eyes with some bus driver and fall helplessly love them.
Speaker 1: But I kind of.
Speaker 2: Tend to think I don't believe that one person's going
Speaker 2: to fill the great hole in your life.
Speaker 1: Kind of Yeah. But I think the key there is
Speaker 1: finding somebody that agrees with that and doesn't want you
Speaker 1: all to themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So I guess you'd have to ensure that
Speaker 2: you were partnered with someone who gave you enough space.
Speaker 1: Who also understands that that is the dynamic. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not cheating if you want to go away for
Speaker 1: a weekend with your girlfriends.
Speaker 2: I was thinking of exactly that example, where you need
Speaker 2: the kind of space to be able to do you know,
Speaker 2: that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I'm also a big believer too in that certain
Speaker 2: relationships can be for a season. That just because something
Speaker 2: doesn't last for a whole lifetime friendship or romantic relationship,
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean it's a failure.
Speaker 1: I never think that any relationship, no matter how long
Speaker 1: it lasts or how short it is, is a failure
Speaker 1: or you know, a disaster. Yea has such great things
Speaker 1: about everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: That was the only question my daughter came up with
Speaker 1: because of her aforementioned attention span. Yeah. So I have,
Speaker 1: you know, turned myself inside out doing research for this podcast,
Speaker 1: and of course almost nothing that I took hours planning
Speaker 1: has been touched on or will be.
Speaker 2: But that's the sign of a good interview. But it
Speaker 2: is chrissy because my experience with interviewing is to have
Speaker 2: the confidence to get out there. I need and it
Speaker 2: sounds like you do too, the security blanket of having
Speaker 2: done the preparation, and so I go in with like, Okay, well,
Speaker 2: this would be my list of questions. This is what
Speaker 2: I know about this person, and that gives me the
Speaker 2: confidence to go out there. But really, what you're hoping
Speaker 2: for is that you hardly have to look at that
Speaker 2: because the conversation just keeps flowing. Yes, but I don't
Speaker 2: have the guts to kind of just rely on the
Speaker 2: information in my head to do that. No, either do I,
Speaker 2: even though it's in there and I've prepped it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And every time, like even with you, you know,
Speaker 1: I've been a fan for so long. I know so
Speaker 1: much about you. I consume so much of what you do,
Speaker 1: and I just never acknowledge that my curiosity will get
Speaker 1: me through. Yeah, but it would. So.
Speaker 2: Richard Glover hosts ABC Drive in Sydney, and he is
Speaker 2: like us. He always preps. I do a weekly thing
Speaker 2: with him and we had this one time we were
Speaker 2: talking about exactly this, and I said, okay, I'm setting
Speaker 2: us a challenge. Next Monday is no prep Monday, no
Speaker 2: prepping for either of us. We have to just walk
Speaker 2: in and for our half hour we just have to talk.
Speaker 1: And did either of you sneakily? We didn't.
Speaker 2: When I walked, Richard said I think what I'll start with,
Speaker 2: and I went, no, Richard, that's prep like no prep.
Speaker 2: We've got to do it. I think we both found
Speaker 2: it incredibly difficult. But of course once you get going,
Speaker 2: if you've got chemistry, you can just talk. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: and like you think, right, if you go to a
Speaker 2: pub with a friend, or say, if we were meeting
Speaker 2: for coffee, you wouldn't think, oh, meaningly for a coffee,
Speaker 2: I better do some prep. You would then just think
Speaker 2: we could have a conversation.
Speaker 1: Yes, and just have everything crossed that you don't say,
Speaker 1: how was your dad? I'm so busy. I'm so tired
Speaker 1: speaking about being busy and tired. When I first started
Speaker 1: Breakfast Radio twenty one years ago, can you believe I
Speaker 1: was so tired? I couldn't believe it. Every day I felt,
Speaker 1: like you know, on those gorgeous childhood days where you
Speaker 1: swim all day and your friends above ground pool and
Speaker 1: then it hits five o'clock and your eyes are stinging
Speaker 1: and you're so tired, and you're a bit you know,
Speaker 1: warm from the sun. Every single day I felt like that,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't believe it, and I would not shut
Speaker 1: up about it. And then I realized about two years
Speaker 1: in from just complaining, I was just like, hang on,
Speaker 1: I complained about this every day that anybody with said
Speaker 1: aber and I'm not any less tired. It's not fixing it.
Speaker 1: So I decided to stop talking about it, and that
Speaker 1: alone has made the biggest difference, because now I'm even
Speaker 1: more tired and more busy. But if you don't talk
Speaker 1: about it, it doesn't exist. That's very interesting.
Speaker 2: I once had a friend who sadly is now passed away,
Speaker 2: Mark Colvin, who used to be a journalist at the ABC,
Speaker 2: and he had had really bad health for about twenty
Speaker 2: five years. He contracted a horrible virus when he was
Speaker 2: working as a correspondent in Africa and his health had
Speaker 2: kind of been decimated by it. Ended up having a
Speaker 2: kidney transplant sogn and when he was a young man,
Speaker 2: he was very handsome, dashing, foreign correspondent, beautiful British accent,
Speaker 2: all of that kind of vibe, James bond James Bondie.
Speaker 2: And then his illness had come kind of robbed his mobility,
Speaker 2: his looks, everything except his brilliant brain, basically. And I
Speaker 2: found this kind of interesting. But he would very rarely
Speaker 2: talk about even though he's in constant pain, never really
Speaker 2: talked about it, didn't talk about being ill. And one
Speaker 2: day we're in the car and I said, Colin, like,
Speaker 2: I'm always kind of curious, like what effect it's had
Speaker 2: on you, your illness, And he said, and I said,
Speaker 2: but you never talk about it, And he said, no
Speaker 2: sales because it's just so boring. He said, there's nothing
Speaker 2: more boring than being in constant pain and being ill.
Speaker 2: It's boring for me, and I just don't want it
Speaker 2: to be boring for everybody else. And I just thought, God,
Speaker 2: isn't that incredible? Because he was an extremely interesting person
Speaker 2: and great company, and I thought that was fascinating that
Speaker 2: he'd made a conscious decision like, yes, I'm in constant pain,
Speaker 2: but I'm just going to not talk about it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And it made him, in my view, you know, almost
Speaker 2: an heroic person to just push through life like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to not complain is a big ask. Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: talk about this new shop. Yes, they call the Assembly. Now.
Speaker 1: You have said of your new show where fifteen autistic
Speaker 1: people are given cart blanche to interview celebs beautiful like
Speaker 1: Hamish Blake, Sam Neil, etc. That one element of what
Speaker 1: you loved about it was that it shows what people
Speaker 1: can achieve if they're given a go.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I've always said it just takes one person to
Speaker 1: champion you and you're away. Do you have that one
Speaker 1: person that sort of identified something in you as a
Speaker 1: young person and when she's got something, I think probably
Speaker 1: not one person.
Speaker 2: But I feel like when I look back over my career,
Speaker 2: there's been multiple people who gave me a go at
Speaker 2: doing things when my experience on paper wouldn't have really
Speaker 2: justified the confidence or the even being given a shot.
Speaker 2: But they gave me a shot. So when I first started,
Speaker 2: my first job was at Chryn Line in Brisbane, and
Speaker 2: so I had, like everyone does, is their junior job,
Speaker 2: you know, I'd answer the phone to viewers complaints and
Speaker 2: send the crews out and print scripts and do whatever
Speaker 2: was required role the autoque And there was a woman
Speaker 2: named Elizabeth Egan who was one of the reporters, and
Speaker 2: she let me sort of research a few stories, and
Speaker 2: she actually she didn't just kind of take the research.
Speaker 2: She'd give me some tips and so she was actually
Speaker 2: really encouraging and sort of helped me a lot learn,
Speaker 2: you know, in a very active mentory kind of way.
Speaker 2: And then when I went to the ABC, I mean
Speaker 2: even just getting the job at the ABC was kind
Speaker 2: of because I hadn't had any reporting experience at nine,
Speaker 2: So getting in at this junior what was at the
Speaker 2: time of D grade, that was a punt that they
Speaker 2: took on me. And I'm still in touch with the
Speaker 2: boss who gave me that gig, John Cameron. And then
Speaker 2: I think going to Washington, as I said, I was
Speaker 2: twenty seven turning twenty eight on paper, I didn't have
Speaker 2: all that experience, but it was the same boss Camo
Speaker 2: and another boss, Maxieatrich, who kind of wire like, we
Speaker 2: think that you can do it, and I think nothing,
Speaker 2: nothing propels.
Speaker 1: You to deliver.
Speaker 2: Then, like when someone's put some faith in you and
Speaker 2: that they're trusting that you can do it.
Speaker 1: I agree. Have you ever been that person for someone?
Speaker 1: I hope?
Speaker 2: So I try a lot of people want me to
Speaker 2: mentor them, and I have a few people in the
Speaker 2: ABC that I do that with on an ongoing basis,
Speaker 2: and then sometimes I just do one off things with people.
Speaker 1: What I've I find that that's a very that's a
Speaker 1: difficult request.
Speaker 2: It is one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: It is because I feel like, so for me in advertising,
Speaker 1: the people that saw something in me and really, you know,
Speaker 1: gave me an opportunity. One was Jeffrey Booth and another
Speaker 1: one was Steve Hurley, and you can always you can
Speaker 1: always name the people that help you. And in radio
Speaker 1: it was Mike Perso who just hounded me and hounded
Speaker 1: me and I'm so glad he did because I'm my god,
Speaker 1: it's so wonderful. But when you I feel like when
Speaker 1: I get approached as well, you know, prefer with by
Speaker 1: young people wanting a career in the media. But I
Speaker 1: think it needs to be organic. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Same here. I don't generally do it when people say
Speaker 2: can you please mentor me? It usually evolves from somebody
Speaker 2: that I've been in a team with or something, already
Speaker 2: know them a little bit and you have a certain
Speaker 2: connection that means it can kind of go. There's a
Speaker 2: couple of exceptions to that, but generally that's how it works.
Speaker 1: Because you also have to identify where because you don't
Speaker 1: know everything about everything, and I don't know everything about everything,
Speaker 1: so you need to identify the sort of person that
Speaker 1: you can help totally.
Speaker 2: And I think as well, what I've noticed with say,
Speaker 2: you know people in the twenties that I mentor is
Speaker 2: I think actually sometimes all they want is just someone
Speaker 2: to listen to them and to just go you're doing great, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're going to be fine. I don't think they need
Speaker 2: someone to go, well, here's how you do an interview.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I sometimes think they just want to bounce ideas off
Speaker 2: somebody and have like an environment where someone just gives
Speaker 2: them an hour of listening time and just encourages them
Speaker 2: that things will work out.
Speaker 1: Okay, because I.
Speaker 2: Think too, in your twenties, sometimes every decision, like about
Speaker 2: taking a certain job or whatever, you feel like it's
Speaker 2: a big life changing decision. Yes, but you realize when
Speaker 2: you're older there's kind of no right or wrong decisions.
Speaker 2: There's just just all different paths that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can leap frog to the side, go
Speaker 1: back a bit and start again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, take a bit of time out if you need
Speaker 2: to you.
Speaker 1: Know now, the assembly yes, sorry in your own words again, Yes,
Speaker 1: the assembly is people asking whatever they like. No questions
Speaker 1: are off limits. Yes, so let's try some lisales. How
Speaker 1: much money do you have in dollars and cents?
Speaker 2: That was a question that got asked of Hamish Blake.
Speaker 2: Could anyone do it to the sense? I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't think so.
Speaker 1: Also, like it depends on what direct deborts are coming
Speaker 1: out you who knows?
Speaker 2: Do you have any cash in that bum bag of yours?
Speaker 1: Not a penny? I haven't had cash for years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not at all.
Speaker 1: It's terrible.
Speaker 2: In fact, I didn't even bring anything down to Melbourne
Speaker 2: other than my phone. I didn't bring any cards at all.
Speaker 1: Oh see, I have a little folder in here with
Speaker 1: all my cards, just in case it doesn't work. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When was the last time you had a proper pash?
Speaker 2: Oh? Not that long ago. I don't want to go
Speaker 2: into too many jails.
Speaker 1: No, you must not go into details. Good good news.
Speaker 1: Do your toenails look like something that you would find
Speaker 1: on a hobbit?
Speaker 2: Yes? Mine somewhere somewhere between hobbit and acceptable. Not full
Speaker 2: scale hobbit, but not.
Speaker 1: Great are they painted? No, No, you're a disgrace. What
Speaker 1: is the most shameful thing you've served up and called dinner? Oh?
Speaker 2: Like packet, fish fingers and just stuff like that.
Speaker 1: You know what you can do to judge that up
Speaker 1: in no time because I'm the shortcut coen. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: also love a fish finger, but sometimes I elevate them
Speaker 1: to the sort of slightly wedge shaped. They're fish fingers,
Speaker 1: they're just a bit bigger. You cook them exactly the
Speaker 1: same way, and then you get your tortillas. Oh and
Speaker 1: you chop them mark a bit of chipotle, and then
Speaker 1: you've got a fish taco. A bell crap does that?
Speaker 1: She does?
Speaker 2: Yeap? She is? Is such a smug bune.
Speaker 1: When you imagine yourself at seventy, what is the image
Speaker 1: that you can conjure.
Speaker 2: I like to think smiling, having a great time and
Speaker 2: for me and so I don't judge anyone else having
Speaker 2: a wrinkly lived in face and gray hair. That's a
Speaker 2: good question. I think at age fifty one, I feel like, yes,
Speaker 2: but you better ask me at sixty nine, I reckon
Speaker 2: I might feel differently. Yeah, as I get closer, I.
Speaker 1: Just feel like I'm not ready to let it go yet.
Speaker 1: I love all the you know, Nivia and Dove campaigns,
Speaker 1: this beautiful gray hair, but I'm just not ready.
Speaker 2: I also don't think I'm gonna have beautiful gray hair.
Speaker 2: I think I'm gonna have really foul, nondescript color.
Speaker 1: The frieze is real, I'll.
Speaker 2: Still have to get color put in my hair to
Speaker 2: make it look like nice gray hair.
Speaker 1: Absolutely me too, that blue the purple shampoo. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining me, Lasavano. You've got a plane
Speaker 1: to catch. It's been so fun. Thank you for having real, adorable, smart,
Speaker 1: insightful and a bit naughty to water woman. You can
Speaker 1: catch Lee's amazing new TV show, The Assembly. It's available
Speaker 1: from August twenty on the ABC and ABC I View.
Speaker 1: And don't forget to follow me on the Christy cast
Speaker 1: socials on Instagram for all sorts of bits and bobs.
Speaker 1: You can DM me anytime. By the way, I run
Speaker 1: it because I don't have a life till next time.
Speaker 1: Christy Casters, stay amazing