1 00:00:04,110 --> 00:00:06,719 Michael Thompson: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily interview. I'm Michael 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,900 Michael Thompson: Thompson. A lot of things have certainly changed as a 3 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:13,260 Michael Thompson: result of COVID. There's plenty in the corporate world and 4 00:00:13,289 --> 00:00:17,160 Michael Thompson: obviously a lot in our personal lives. Perhaps one of 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,770 Michael Thompson: the outcomes of the pandemic, though, that actually kind of 6 00:00:19,770 --> 00:00:23,340 Michael Thompson: crosses over between the two, is a greater awareness of 7 00:00:23,340 --> 00:00:27,960 Michael Thompson: mental health. Obviously, the pandemic was a very challenging time 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:29,640 Michael Thompson: for a lot of people, and it seems now that 9 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,630 Michael Thompson: as we start to return to the office, companies are 10 00:00:33,780 --> 00:00:35,970 Michael Thompson: a bit more mindful of the mental health of their 11 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,360 Michael Thompson: employees. That said, we still have a very long way 12 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,530 Michael Thompson: to go. In the 2021 census, 8. 8% of the 13 00:00:43,530 --> 00:00:48,210 Michael Thompson: population reported having a long- term mental health condition. Chelsea 14 00:00:48,210 --> 00:00:51,300 Michael Thompson: Pottenger is an author and the founder of EQ Minds. 15 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,570 Michael Thompson: She's an international motivational speaker, working with some of the 16 00:00:54,570 --> 00:00:58,650 Michael Thompson: world's biggest brands, like Google, Uber, and eBay, to help 17 00:00:58,650 --> 00:01:03,690 Michael Thompson: businesses really prioritize employee mental health. Chelsea, welcome to Fear 18 00:01:03,690 --> 00:01:04,170 Michael Thompson: and Greed. 19 00:01:04,890 --> 00:01:07,410 Chelsea Pottenger: Thank you so much, Michael. It is wonderful to be 20 00:01:07,410 --> 00:01:08,730 Chelsea Pottenger: here with you today on the show. 21 00:01:09,510 --> 00:01:13,800 Michael Thompson: Can we start with your own story? Because part of 22 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,830 Michael Thompson: what you do is really work to break down the 23 00:01:16,830 --> 00:01:22,080 Michael Thompson: stigma around mental health, and that actually includes sharing your 24 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,350 Michael Thompson: own experience and demonstrating that it can happen to anyone. 25 00:01:25,350 --> 00:01:31,470 Chelsea Pottenger: That's so true, and I think back in my corporate life, when I used to 26 00:01:31,470 --> 00:01:35,310 Chelsea Pottenger: do the 12- hour days and the Hendricks gin at 27 00:01:35,310 --> 00:01:41,010 Chelsea Pottenger: night and the five coffees to get up, the pounding 28 00:01:41,010 --> 00:01:43,740 Chelsea Pottenger: the pavement for exercise. And probably a lot of your 29 00:01:43,740 --> 00:01:47,610 Chelsea Pottenger: listeners can relate to that story. Very, very fast pace, rise- and- 30 00:01:47,610 --> 00:01:54,330 Chelsea Pottenger: grind mindset. Very unsustainable, to be honest. 2015, enters Clara 31 00:01:54,330 --> 00:01:58,500 Chelsea Pottenger: Pottenger, our gorgeous girl, and to be honest, I was so elated, 32 00:01:58,500 --> 00:02:01,590 Chelsea Pottenger: Michael, to fall pregnant. It took us six years to 33 00:02:01,590 --> 00:02:06,810 Chelsea Pottenger: try and have her, so I was really elated. And so what 34 00:02:06,810 --> 00:02:09,690 Chelsea Pottenger: happened in my story that was so ironic, because I 35 00:02:09,690 --> 00:02:11,970 Chelsea Pottenger: was such an optimist. I was really looking forward to 36 00:02:11,970 --> 00:02:15,990 Chelsea Pottenger: becoming a mom. I was a Type A achiever, and 37 00:02:15,990 --> 00:02:19,230 Chelsea Pottenger: then I have Clara, and then nine weeks post- birth, 38 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,100 Chelsea Pottenger: find myself spiraling into a psych ward in Sydney, suffering 39 00:02:23,610 --> 00:02:28,709 Chelsea Pottenger: severe, severe post- natal depression. I was clinically, exceptionally unwell. 40 00:02:28,710 --> 00:02:32,280 Chelsea Pottenger: I had suicidal ideation, and the safest place I could 41 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,190 Chelsea Pottenger: be was in a hospital bed. It's pretty heavy, hey? 42 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,910 Michael Thompson: Yeah, it really is, actually. And I suppose one thing 43 00:02:38,910 --> 00:02:40,710 Michael Thompson: that really stands out to me in that is the 44 00:02:40,710 --> 00:02:45,090 Michael Thompson: fact that you probably went into that with that same 45 00:02:45,090 --> 00:02:47,910 Michael Thompson: approach that you'd taken to corporate life, that being, obviously, 46 00:02:47,910 --> 00:02:52,800 Michael Thompson: a very high achiever in the healthcare sector and the 47 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:57,240 Michael Thompson: corporate world, did it really take you by surprise that 48 00:02:57,419 --> 00:02:58,560 Michael Thompson: you were hit as hard as you were? 49 00:02:59,490 --> 00:03:03,120 Chelsea Pottenger: Absolutely, and I think the other thing with that, of 50 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:08,010 Chelsea Pottenger: being Type A, high- functioning, suffered perfectionism, is that I 51 00:03:08,010 --> 00:03:11,610 Chelsea Pottenger: wasn't honest. I could see myself slipping, but also, I 52 00:03:11,610 --> 00:03:14,610 Chelsea Pottenger: wasn't educated about what post- natal anxiety and depression was, 53 00:03:14,610 --> 00:03:19,680 Chelsea Pottenger: either. So it hit me really hard, and I was 54 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,440 Chelsea Pottenger: very scared, but I wasn't talking up about it enough 55 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,200 Chelsea Pottenger: at the start of that, when I noticed that chemical 56 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,430 Chelsea Pottenger: imbalance at the start. And so nine weeks it took 57 00:03:29,430 --> 00:03:33,900 Chelsea Pottenger: me to get worse and darker and more despondent and 58 00:03:33,900 --> 00:03:38,850 Chelsea Pottenger: more depressed. Hopefully, you never end up in a psych 59 00:03:38,850 --> 00:03:41,490 Chelsea Pottenger: ward. My goodness. But in life, when you're faced with 60 00:03:41,490 --> 00:03:44,160 Chelsea Pottenger: adversity and you're laying in a hospital bed like what 61 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:49,170 Chelsea Pottenger: I was, you get two choices. And my choice then was, " 62 00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:53,100 Chelsea Pottenger: Chels, do you return back to your previous life, living 63 00:03:53,100 --> 00:03:56,100 Chelsea Pottenger: here in Sydney and fast- paced and work hard, play 64 00:03:56,100 --> 00:03:59,340 Chelsea Pottenger: hard, party hard, work out hard? Do I return back 65 00:03:59,340 --> 00:04:02,910 Chelsea Pottenger: to that, or do I learn and I grow from 66 00:04:02,910 --> 00:04:06,000 Chelsea Pottenger: this gift?" And at the end of the five weeks 67 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,390 Chelsea Pottenger: day, my amazing psychiatrist, she said to me, " Chelsea, you 68 00:04:09,390 --> 00:04:13,140 Chelsea Pottenger: have this weird fascination with your brain. You are a 69 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:17,130 Chelsea Pottenger: really lovely person and you've walked through this shoes of 70 00:04:17,130 --> 00:04:19,950 Chelsea Pottenger: a very clinically unwell patient. So you've seen it through 71 00:04:19,950 --> 00:04:23,460 Chelsea Pottenger: the lens of a truly unwell person. Would you ever 72 00:04:23,460 --> 00:04:28,110 Chelsea Pottenger: consider reinventing yourself and studying psychology and come back as 73 00:04:28,110 --> 00:04:33,030 Chelsea Pottenger: a psychologist?" And I thought, " Rightio, oh, I'll do it." 74 00:04:33,390 --> 00:04:37,380 Chelsea Pottenger: So with her encouragement as well as the amazing support 75 00:04:37,380 --> 00:04:40,020 Chelsea Pottenger: for my husband and my family and friends, we moved 76 00:04:40,020 --> 00:04:42,870 Chelsea Pottenger: from Sydney. We moved to a small town a couple 77 00:04:42,870 --> 00:04:46,740 Chelsea Pottenger: hours south from Sydney on a little surf beach called Gerringong. 78 00:04:47,310 --> 00:04:48,060 Michael Thompson: Oh, lovely spot. 79 00:04:48,390 --> 00:04:50,550 Chelsea Pottenger: Yeah, stunning. So we left that, we left the corporate 80 00:04:50,550 --> 00:04:54,000 Chelsea Pottenger: world, we moved to Gerringong. I traded in the high heels 81 00:04:54,390 --> 00:04:56,940 Chelsea Pottenger: for a surf board and some bare feet. And I 82 00:04:56,940 --> 00:05:00,930 Chelsea Pottenger: went back to university and I've been studying psychology for 83 00:05:00,930 --> 00:05:05,550 Chelsea Pottenger: years because my mission then, Michael, was I never wanted 84 00:05:05,550 --> 00:05:08,760 Chelsea Pottenger: anyone in Australia and the world to ever end up 85 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,500 Chelsea Pottenger: in a hospital bed like how I did. I mean 86 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:14,489 Chelsea Pottenger: it was truly shocking. And so I thought, " Well, I'll 87 00:05:14,490 --> 00:05:18,000 Chelsea Pottenger: go back, I'll retrain." And I became a mindfulness meditation 88 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:24,810 Chelsea Pottenger: coach. Look, I still drink a coffee. I love a long black in the morning. I still drink a glass of 89 00:05:24,810 --> 00:05:27,270 Chelsea Pottenger: wine on a Friday night. I think life's really about 90 00:05:27,270 --> 00:05:31,800 Chelsea Pottenger: integration. But to be honest, Michael, without that severe adversity 91 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,800 Chelsea Pottenger: in my life, EQ Minds, our company wouldn't have been 92 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,160 Chelsea Pottenger: birthed. And so when I founded the company in 2016, 93 00:05:38,220 --> 00:05:40,410 Chelsea Pottenger: that was the mission and it would always be the mission of 94 00:05:40,410 --> 00:05:43,500 Chelsea Pottenger: our company to empower and educate people to take care 95 00:05:43,500 --> 00:05:46,469 Chelsea Pottenger: of their mental health and their wellbeing. And since then 96 00:05:46,470 --> 00:05:49,320 Chelsea Pottenger: we've trained nearly a million people across the globe and 97 00:05:49,830 --> 00:05:52,560 Chelsea Pottenger: it is just enormous gratitude that I get to do 98 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,110 Chelsea Pottenger: what we do every day with the world's biggest brands. 99 00:05:55,290 --> 00:05:56,370 Chelsea Pottenger: I feel very grateful. 100 00:05:56,850 --> 00:06:01,080 Michael Thompson: It's an incredible story and the thing that frightened me 101 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,320 Michael Thompson: most, I suppose, is that someone could be going through 102 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,920 Michael Thompson: something like this, like postnatal depression and you don't necessarily 103 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,680 Michael Thompson: know about it. And I want to get to, in a 104 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:15,630 Michael Thompson: moment, how corporate Australia is now working and hopefully improving 105 00:06:15,630 --> 00:06:19,620 Michael Thompson: it at managing situations like this. But I've got two 106 00:06:19,620 --> 00:06:24,419 Michael Thompson: young kids and when our children were born, my wife 107 00:06:24,420 --> 00:06:27,240 Michael Thompson: and I talked about postnatal depression, and I think I 108 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,729 Michael Thompson: realized that I wouldn't even know what to look for 109 00:06:30,089 --> 00:06:32,760 Michael Thompson: in that kind of situation. And if you're not asking 110 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,600 Michael Thompson: the right questions, then not everyone is going to volunteer 111 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:37,469 Michael Thompson: that they need help. 112 00:06:37,860 --> 00:06:41,010 Chelsea Pottenger: That is so true. It's really hard, isn't it? Especially 113 00:06:41,010 --> 00:06:42,960 Chelsea Pottenger: if you think some of the things that are going 114 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,510 Chelsea Pottenger: on with that person and they're telling you that they're 115 00:06:45,510 --> 00:06:49,620 Chelsea Pottenger: fine. So I think that's a really tough, tougher thing 116 00:06:49,620 --> 00:06:52,739 Chelsea Pottenger: as well. But there's so many great resources out there 117 00:06:53,010 --> 00:06:55,170 Chelsea Pottenger: with Beyond Blue and Are You Okay Day, who I'm 118 00:06:55,170 --> 00:06:59,370 Chelsea Pottenger: an ambassador for, but it's being around that person, you 119 00:06:59,370 --> 00:07:02,790 Chelsea Pottenger: are the best person to ask the question because that 120 00:07:02,790 --> 00:07:04,979 Chelsea Pottenger: was a huge campaign with Are You Okay Day this 121 00:07:04,980 --> 00:07:07,830 Chelsea Pottenger: year was you don't need to be an expert. And 122 00:07:08,250 --> 00:07:10,950 Chelsea Pottenger: that is so true because it was my husband who 123 00:07:10,950 --> 00:07:14,220 Chelsea Pottenger: asked me that question when Clara was nine weeks old 124 00:07:14,220 --> 00:07:17,490 Chelsea Pottenger: and I'd completely spiraled and, " Darling, are you actually doing 125 00:07:17,490 --> 00:07:21,630 Chelsea Pottenger: okay?" And that was that genuine question. And him holding 126 00:07:21,630 --> 00:07:24,720 Chelsea Pottenger: the space, it really helped me to take my mask 127 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,560 Chelsea Pottenger: off of pretending that I was doing fine. But little 128 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,620 Chelsea Pottenger: things in terms of people's, I always say this to 129 00:07:31,620 --> 00:07:34,620 Chelsea Pottenger: people, what to look out for within yourself, Michael, but 130 00:07:34,620 --> 00:07:37,650 Chelsea Pottenger: also within others, your children or your partner or your 131 00:07:37,650 --> 00:07:40,800 Chelsea Pottenger: work colleagues or your boss. Little things around what are 132 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,530 Chelsea Pottenger: they saying? Are they saying to you, " I feel like 133 00:07:43,530 --> 00:07:45,990 Chelsea Pottenger: I'm a burden," or " I'm unable to switch off at 134 00:07:45,990 --> 00:07:49,860 Chelsea Pottenger: night," or " I'm a bit moody at the moment" or " 135 00:07:49,860 --> 00:07:53,820 Chelsea Pottenger: I'm lacking." And then what are they doing? Are you 136 00:07:53,820 --> 00:07:59,130 Chelsea Pottenger: noticing that your work colleague keeps withdrawing from meetings or 137 00:07:59,130 --> 00:08:03,060 Chelsea Pottenger: they keep isolating themselves or they are canceling social plans 138 00:08:03,060 --> 00:08:06,690 Chelsea Pottenger: or they're having less interest in their appearance? And then another 139 00:08:06,690 --> 00:08:09,210 Chelsea Pottenger: thing is being aware of kind of what's going on 140 00:08:09,210 --> 00:08:12,480 Chelsea Pottenger: in their life. Are they having relationship issues? Have they 141 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,880 Chelsea Pottenger: just gone through a divorce? Have they've got major health 142 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,880 Chelsea Pottenger: issues? Have they just been diagnosed with cancer? Have they 143 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,790 Chelsea Pottenger: just had a baby? That's a positive thing. But for 144 00:08:20,790 --> 00:08:23,730 Chelsea Pottenger: some people, it can cause a huge amount of stress. Have 145 00:08:23,730 --> 00:08:26,489 Chelsea Pottenger: they had grief recently in their life? Are they going 146 00:08:26,490 --> 00:08:27,630 Chelsea Pottenger: through financial difficulty? 147 00:08:27,630 --> 00:08:32,370 Michael Thompson: So it's about not making assumptions, really, necessarily, that in 148 00:08:32,370 --> 00:08:34,439 Michael Thompson: the case of say having a baby where people assume 149 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,500 Michael Thompson: this is the happiest time of your life, that no, 150 00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:39,750 Michael Thompson: it might not be that way. And that's why that 151 00:08:40,410 --> 00:08:42,810 Michael Thompson: simple question of "Are you okay?" is so important? 152 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,040 Chelsea Pottenger: A hundred percent. And I think that's the biggest thing 153 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,510 Chelsea Pottenger: is when you do and you go and ask somebody that question, number one, you 154 00:08:51,510 --> 00:08:53,970 Chelsea Pottenger: have to check are you okay? Right? You can't go 155 00:08:53,970 --> 00:08:55,710 Chelsea Pottenger: and ask someone, " Hey, you doing okay," when you are 156 00:08:55,710 --> 00:08:58,800 Chelsea Pottenger: actually depleted, you're spiraling down in a burnout. You've got 157 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,319 Chelsea Pottenger: no capacity to actually do something if someone says " No, 158 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,470 Chelsea Pottenger: they're not okay." Number one is always are you okay, 159 00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:07,320 Chelsea Pottenger: before you go and ask someone, " Hey," ask the other 160 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,309 Chelsea Pottenger: person if they're doing okay. So I think across the 161 00:09:11,309 --> 00:09:14,490 Chelsea Pottenger: globe, we just need to be kinder to ourselves and 162 00:09:14,490 --> 00:09:18,780 Chelsea Pottenger: to each other. If people are treating, they're turning up 163 00:09:18,780 --> 00:09:21,359 Chelsea Pottenger: and they're there for as a physical shell, but you 164 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,100 Chelsea Pottenger: can tell that their mental fortitude or they're just not there, they've 165 00:09:26,100 --> 00:09:28,890 Chelsea Pottenger: got that blankness in the eyes, the best thing can 166 00:09:28,890 --> 00:09:33,059 Chelsea Pottenger: do is in the right moment, ask them, " Hey, just checking 167 00:09:33,059 --> 00:09:34,470 Chelsea Pottenger: in. Are you doing okay at the moment?" 168 00:09:35,010 --> 00:09:37,020 Michael Thompson: And actually give them the opportunity to answer. 169 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:37,860 Chelsea Pottenger: Absolutely. 170 00:09:37,950 --> 00:09:39,960 Michael Thompson: Stay with me, Chelsea. We'll be back in a moment. 171 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:50,640 Michael Thompson: I'm speaking to Chelsea Pottenger, founder of EQ Minds. You mentioned 172 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,730 Michael Thompson: that now since 2016 when you started the company, you've 173 00:09:53,730 --> 00:09:58,229 Michael Thompson: now had the opportunity to essentially train and work with 174 00:09:58,230 --> 00:10:00,329 Michael Thompson: a million people across the globe. It means that you've 175 00:10:00,330 --> 00:10:03,210 Michael Thompson: got a fairly kind of in depth insight into the 176 00:10:03,210 --> 00:10:06,479 Michael Thompson: way that the corporate environment would've changed across that time. 177 00:10:06,660 --> 00:10:09,990 Michael Thompson: Do you think companies are doing better now at creating 178 00:10:09,990 --> 00:10:13,830 Michael Thompson: an environment that is a psychologically safe place for employees? 179 00:10:13,830 --> 00:10:16,679 Michael Thompson: And I mentioned in the introduction, probably a bit of 180 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,050 Michael Thompson: a hypothesis, that the pandemic might be a bit of 181 00:10:19,050 --> 00:10:21,840 Michael Thompson: a turning point and that there's a bit more attention 182 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,819 Michael Thompson: paid to it now. Do you think that's the case? 183 00:10:24,750 --> 00:10:27,839 Chelsea Pottenger: I think so. I think we have come such a 184 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,470 Chelsea Pottenger: long way. When I started up the company, mindfulness wasn't 185 00:10:31,470 --> 00:10:35,700 Chelsea Pottenger: really even talked about. Mental health wasn't even a really 186 00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:38,400 Chelsea Pottenger: a thing back then when I was having conversations. It 187 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,730 Chelsea Pottenger: was still kind of that where we honor the CEO 188 00:10:41,730 --> 00:10:44,640 Chelsea Pottenger: turning up at two in the morning on an international 189 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,160 Chelsea Pottenger: flight, rocking up at the office at 6: 00 AM 190 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,719 Chelsea Pottenger: for the first meeting going, " Yes." 191 00:10:48,750 --> 00:10:48,751 Michael Thompson: Yep. 192 00:10:48,751 --> 00:10:51,540 Chelsea Pottenger: " He is like... He's got it going on." Almost 193 00:10:51,540 --> 00:10:54,990 Chelsea Pottenger: like this sign of machismo, not recognizing that he could 194 00:10:54,990 --> 00:10:59,400 Chelsea Pottenger: be spiraling. He's in this constant sort of mode of 195 00:10:59,790 --> 00:11:03,840 Chelsea Pottenger: and not sleeping that actually really hinders performance. But I 196 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:05,880 Chelsea Pottenger: really feel like, yes, we have come such a long 197 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,630 Chelsea Pottenger: way since then. Still, I mean, there's always room. There's 198 00:11:09,630 --> 00:11:12,420 Chelsea Pottenger: so much more that we can do in a corporate 199 00:11:12,420 --> 00:11:17,400 Chelsea Pottenger: world sense. I think a lot of things have helped. 200 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,609 Chelsea Pottenger: A number of high profile people like John Brogdon or 201 00:11:20,610 --> 00:11:25,229 Chelsea Pottenger: even Ash Bardi and many others have shown that a 202 00:11:25,230 --> 00:11:28,559 Chelsea Pottenger: lot of high performers do really struggle with and manage 203 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,580 Chelsea Pottenger: their mental health and that they are still able to stay 204 00:11:32,580 --> 00:11:36,120 Chelsea Pottenger: super high functioning. And so I think that's normalizing the 205 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,270 Chelsea Pottenger: conversation for us. I think one of the things you're 206 00:11:39,270 --> 00:11:42,510 Chelsea Pottenger: mentioning about Covid, yes, it has become more of a 207 00:11:42,510 --> 00:11:47,610 Chelsea Pottenger: workplace focus since then. We've noticing even the feedback from 208 00:11:48,059 --> 00:11:51,420 Chelsea Pottenger: our clients when we're asking them before we turn up 209 00:11:51,420 --> 00:11:53,309 Chelsea Pottenger: for a keynote, what do you want them to walk 210 00:11:53,309 --> 00:11:55,230 Chelsea Pottenger: away with? What's their pain points going on in their 211 00:11:55,230 --> 00:11:59,790 Chelsea Pottenger: company at the moment? Still very, very similar themes. Mental 212 00:11:59,790 --> 00:12:04,200 Chelsea Pottenger: health tips and tools, stress, burnout, anxiety, how to overcome 213 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:09,479 Chelsea Pottenger: that and resilience techniques, sleep for performance. All these kinds 214 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,740 Chelsea Pottenger: of themes are still very, very prevalent. And I think 215 00:12:13,740 --> 00:12:18,750 Chelsea Pottenger: there's definitely more programs. Are You Okay Day was recent 216 00:12:18,750 --> 00:12:21,330 Chelsea Pottenger: and the whole of Australia is this a wash with 217 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,750 Chelsea Pottenger: yellow t- shirts these days, which is, it's so beautiful to 218 00:12:24,750 --> 00:12:33,089 Chelsea Pottenger: see. But this is just a journey. World Health Organization 219 00:12:33,090 --> 00:12:35,370 Chelsea Pottenger: is predicting depression to be the number one killer in 220 00:12:35,370 --> 00:12:39,869 Chelsea Pottenger: 2030. So as leaders of companies, we need to be 221 00:12:39,870 --> 00:12:44,250 Chelsea Pottenger: doing more. But also in saying that the individual has 222 00:12:44,250 --> 00:12:46,740 Chelsea Pottenger: to be able to take accountability and ownership. There's like 223 00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:51,390 Chelsea Pottenger: this two- pronged approach. The leaders can do the best 224 00:12:51,390 --> 00:12:53,400 Chelsea Pottenger: they can at the culture. The culture always starts at 225 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,699 Chelsea Pottenger: the top. However, we also have to empower the individuals 226 00:12:56,700 --> 00:12:58,710 Chelsea Pottenger: and we talk about that now in keynotes and workshops 227 00:12:59,490 --> 00:13:02,189 Chelsea Pottenger: about accountability. Own your stuff. 228 00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:05,340 Michael Thompson: Well, that actually kind of leads to something I was 229 00:13:05,340 --> 00:13:08,850 Michael Thompson: interested about. Basically, how hard is it then for companies 230 00:13:08,850 --> 00:13:13,830 Michael Thompson: to maintain a supportive environment 24/7? Because I imagine it's easy 231 00:13:13,830 --> 00:13:16,710 Michael Thompson: enough for them to set up the policies and do 232 00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:19,800 Michael Thompson: the training, but then as soon as the pressure builds, 233 00:13:19,890 --> 00:13:21,870 Michael Thompson: can all of it just go out the window and 234 00:13:21,870 --> 00:13:24,660 Michael Thompson: is that when it comes down to the individual to say, " 235 00:13:24,929 --> 00:13:27,840 Michael Thompson: No, I need time, I need space, I need help." 236 00:13:29,340 --> 00:13:33,059 Chelsea Pottenger: Absolutely. I think we have to have those processes in 237 00:13:33,059 --> 00:13:38,099 Chelsea Pottenger: place. With the great resignation going on, people are now 238 00:13:38,100 --> 00:13:41,100 Chelsea Pottenger: looking for organizations that truly care about their mental health 239 00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:43,830 Chelsea Pottenger: and wellbeing. We know that. We know people are looking 240 00:13:43,830 --> 00:13:47,370 Chelsea Pottenger: for companies that invest in sustainability, that have got gender 241 00:13:47,370 --> 00:13:50,880 Chelsea Pottenger: diversity and inclusion. We know this stuff. So we have 242 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,750 Chelsea Pottenger: to make sure that we do have the right scaffolding 243 00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:58,200 Chelsea Pottenger: around our people. We have the EAP in place, we 244 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,580 Chelsea Pottenger: have the workshops on offer. We are providing healthier options 245 00:14:02,580 --> 00:14:04,530 Chelsea Pottenger: for them to eat. We've got bike racks for them 246 00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:06,780 Chelsea Pottenger: to ride in. So yes, I think we need all 247 00:14:06,780 --> 00:14:11,250 Chelsea Pottenger: those in place. However, if that person's still really struggling 248 00:14:11,309 --> 00:14:13,170 Chelsea Pottenger: and you've offered them all these things and they still 249 00:14:13,170 --> 00:14:16,770 Chelsea Pottenger: need more, I think it's again, being respectful of that 250 00:14:16,770 --> 00:14:19,530 Chelsea Pottenger: space going, " Hey, we are here for you. However, we're 251 00:14:19,530 --> 00:14:22,650 Chelsea Pottenger: also going to encourage you to seek professional help." And 252 00:14:22,650 --> 00:14:25,290 Chelsea Pottenger: that person taking that ownership to go and do that, 253 00:14:25,740 --> 00:14:30,600 Chelsea Pottenger: because I really feel like we don't know half the 254 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,390 Chelsea Pottenger: time what's going on in people's life. It is behind 255 00:14:33,390 --> 00:14:37,740 Chelsea Pottenger: closed doors. But we definitely need to be providing our 256 00:14:37,740 --> 00:14:43,320 Chelsea Pottenger: people and our teams with consistent resourcing because the person 257 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,280 Chelsea Pottenger: becomes loyal to the boss. They're usually not loyal to 258 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,070 Chelsea Pottenger: the brand most of the time. They're usually loyal to 259 00:14:50,070 --> 00:14:53,250 Chelsea Pottenger: their direct report. And if that direct report shows a 260 00:14:53,250 --> 00:14:57,030 Chelsea Pottenger: level of care, really genuine care, and that person recovers 261 00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:59,760 Chelsea Pottenger: and they come back and they're usually a high performer, 262 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,250 Chelsea Pottenger: but they're going through high anxiety or something like that 263 00:15:02,250 --> 00:15:04,620 Chelsea Pottenger: at the moment, which is really common. You give them 264 00:15:04,620 --> 00:15:07,380 Chelsea Pottenger: the space for that person to heal, they come back. 265 00:15:07,710 --> 00:15:11,670 Chelsea Pottenger: You've got a very loyal, very high performing employee when 266 00:15:11,670 --> 00:15:14,190 Chelsea Pottenger: they come back as well. And so I think it's 267 00:15:14,670 --> 00:15:18,390 Chelsea Pottenger: always that two- pronged approach. One, company- wide, we are 268 00:15:18,390 --> 00:15:21,300 Chelsea Pottenger: here, we are caring, this is everything that we are doing. And 269 00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:27,270 Chelsea Pottenger: then two, individual needs to be driven and also encouraged 270 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,180 Chelsea Pottenger: to take accountability for what's going on. 271 00:15:30,450 --> 00:15:32,970 Michael Thompson: Yeah, no, look, I think, and I should not ask you 272 00:15:32,970 --> 00:15:35,160 Michael Thompson: to do this in 30 seconds, but we are running 273 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,590 Michael Thompson: out of time, so it seems very unfair to put 274 00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:40,290 Michael Thompson: a time limit on it. But resilience and grit, you 275 00:15:40,290 --> 00:15:42,359 Michael Thompson: mentioned those are two of the things that kind of 276 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,570 Michael Thompson: people are really wanting to know about at the moment. 277 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,070 Michael Thompson: In 30 seconds, completely unfair I know, what tips can 278 00:15:50,070 --> 00:15:51,510 Michael Thompson: you give me to build resilience? 279 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,490 Chelsea Pottenger: Buy The Mindful High Performer, my new book. It's got 280 00:15:56,490 --> 00:15:58,320 Chelsea Pottenger: a whole chapter on resilience. I'm kidding. 281 00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:59,670 Michael Thompson: Oh, well done. Well played. 282 00:15:59,670 --> 00:16:02,580 Chelsea Pottenger: No, I would say one of the best things that 283 00:16:02,580 --> 00:16:06,720 Chelsea Pottenger: I've learned at university is when it comes to resilience 284 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,210 Chelsea Pottenger: is changing the words " I have to," to " I get 285 00:16:09,210 --> 00:16:11,580 Chelsea Pottenger: to." So what I mean by that is people often 286 00:16:11,580 --> 00:16:15,120 Chelsea Pottenger: dress up their situation as stresses when sometimes they're truly 287 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,180 Chelsea Pottenger: blessing. So for example, I have to commute to work. 288 00:16:18,180 --> 00:16:20,070 Chelsea Pottenger: I have to go for a new job. I have 289 00:16:20,070 --> 00:16:23,010 Chelsea Pottenger: to pack my kids the lunch today. As soon as 290 00:16:23,010 --> 00:16:25,800 Chelsea Pottenger: you shift that one little word to " I get to," 291 00:16:26,010 --> 00:16:28,770 Chelsea Pottenger: I get an hour of commuting time here to listen 292 00:16:28,770 --> 00:16:31,950 Chelsea Pottenger: to my favorite podcast. I get an hour to socially 293 00:16:31,950 --> 00:16:35,130 Chelsea Pottenger: connect or say it's the kids' lunch. I get to 294 00:16:35,250 --> 00:16:38,850 Chelsea Pottenger: socially choose the farmer that I'm supporting today to nourish 295 00:16:38,850 --> 00:16:41,460 Chelsea Pottenger: my child in the right kind of way. So I mean, 296 00:16:41,460 --> 00:16:44,640 Chelsea Pottenger: that's just one small tip out of a plethora that 297 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,700 Chelsea Pottenger: we have in our resilience workshop or in our book, 298 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:50,340 Chelsea Pottenger: The Mindful High Performer. But it's a muscle, right? We 299 00:16:50,340 --> 00:16:52,710 Chelsea Pottenger: can keep training that resilience muscle, which is awesome. 300 00:16:52,950 --> 00:16:55,650 Michael Thompson: That's a fantastic tip. Instead of " I have to," " I 301 00:16:55,650 --> 00:16:58,530 Michael Thompson: get to." That's a really kind of simple thing that 302 00:16:58,530 --> 00:17:00,570 Michael Thompson: seems pretty easy to do, but could make a lot 303 00:17:00,570 --> 00:17:02,820 Michael Thompson: of difference. Chelsea, thank you so much for talking to 304 00:17:02,820 --> 00:17:03,450 Michael Thompson: Fear and Greed. 305 00:17:03,870 --> 00:17:06,060 Chelsea Pottenger: Thank you so much, Michael, it's been such a pleasure. 306 00:17:06,450 --> 00:17:09,510 Michael Thompson: That was Chelsea Pottenger, founder of EQ Minds, and I will 307 00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:12,840 Michael Thompson: just mention that that simple question, "Are you okay?" can make all 308 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,300 Michael Thompson: the difference. And as always, Lifeline is available if you 309 00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:18,510 Michael Thompson: need help. 13- 11- 14. This is the Fear and Greed 310 00:17:18,510 --> 00:17:21,000 Michael Thompson: daily interview. Join us every morning for the full episode 311 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,300 Michael Thompson: of Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm 312 00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:25,920 Michael Thompson: Michael Thompson. Enjoy your day.