1 00:00:05,700 --> 00:00:08,039 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:12,030 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. The tech world, as always, is moving quickly. Artificial 3 00:00:12,030 --> 00:00:16,619 Sean Aylmer: intelligence, virtual reality, quantum computing, these are the buzzwords of 4 00:00:16,619 --> 00:00:19,110 Sean Aylmer: the last few years. But what are they actually going 5 00:00:19,110 --> 00:00:22,259 Sean Aylmer: to mean for consumers, for most of us? We can 6 00:00:22,259 --> 00:00:25,710 Sean Aylmer: see the growing presence of AI through platforms like ChatGPT. 7 00:00:26,009 --> 00:00:28,559 Sean Aylmer: What about virtual reality? Is this really going to become 8 00:00:28,559 --> 00:00:31,080 Sean Aylmer: part of our everyday lives? A lot of it comes 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,229 Sean Aylmer: down to Apple and whether the tech behemoth has the 10 00:00:34,229 --> 00:00:37,979 Sean Aylmer: muscle to make VR an essential tool for consumers. Stephen 11 00:00:37,979 --> 00:00:40,949 Sean Aylmer: Fenech is one of Australia's top technology journalists and the 12 00:00:40,950 --> 00:00:44,819 Sean Aylmer: editor of techguide. com. au. Stephen, welcome back to Fear 13 00:00:44,820 --> 00:00:45,269 Sean Aylmer: and Greed. 14 00:00:45,630 --> 00:00:46,949 Stephen Fenech: Good to be back, Sean. How are you? 15 00:00:47,550 --> 00:00:48,960 Sean Aylmer: I'm very well. Look, I want to talk to you 16 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,409 Sean Aylmer: about AI, but before we get there, let's talk, I 17 00:00:52,409 --> 00:00:55,920 Sean Aylmer: mean, virtual reality, VR, it's almost old hat now, ever 18 00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:00,390 Sean Aylmer: since AI and quantum computing stole the headlines. But what's 19 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,939 Sean Aylmer: virtual reality look like at the moment? 20 00:01:03,420 --> 00:01:07,529 Stephen Fenech: Well, the VR industry, it's sort of steady as she 21 00:01:07,530 --> 00:01:10,169 Stephen Fenech: goes at the moment. There's been a number of headsets 22 00:01:10,170 --> 00:01:14,190 Stephen Fenech: over the years, and as you'd imagine improving constantly. The 23 00:01:14,190 --> 00:01:17,640 Stephen Fenech: quality is really high now with VR, and it's been 24 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,679 Stephen Fenech: used in all kinds of industries. A lot of people 25 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,679 Stephen Fenech: think that it's just a gaming thing. Yeah, that's true, 26 00:01:22,679 --> 00:01:26,429 Stephen Fenech: but it's also been adopted by different industries for different 27 00:01:26,429 --> 00:01:32,100 Stephen Fenech: training purposes, even design and the car industry, even fashion 28 00:01:32,100 --> 00:01:36,630 Stephen Fenech: industry, they're all using VR to look at things a 29 00:01:36,630 --> 00:01:39,059 Stephen Fenech: different way. Literally, look at things, design things in a 30 00:01:39,059 --> 00:01:42,090 Stephen Fenech: whole different way, give them a 3D view of things, 31 00:01:42,599 --> 00:01:46,050 Stephen Fenech: but I think it's still hasn't had that cut through. 32 00:01:46,260 --> 00:01:49,110 Stephen Fenech: It's not like the smartphone where everyone's got one, use 33 00:01:49,110 --> 00:01:52,200 Stephen Fenech: it every day. It's a sort of tool that's become... 34 00:01:52,710 --> 00:01:56,099 Stephen Fenech: it's fascinating when you're using it for entertainment and playing 35 00:01:56,099 --> 00:01:58,889 Stephen Fenech: a game, but I think the novelty wears off quite 36 00:01:58,889 --> 00:02:02,880 Stephen Fenech: quickly. So whether Apple has got the clout to make 37 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,459 Stephen Fenech: it a product that customers want to use every day 38 00:02:05,459 --> 00:02:06,269 Stephen Fenech: is yet to be seen. 39 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,900 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so tell us about Apple's Vision Pro. What does 40 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:12,930 Sean Aylmer: it offer that Apple hopes will give it that clout? 41 00:02:13,530 --> 00:02:15,389 Stephen Fenech: Yeah. Well, I've actually used the Vision Pro. It was 42 00:02:15,389 --> 00:02:18,839 Stephen Fenech: announced at the Worldwide Developers Conference last June, in June 43 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,330 Stephen Fenech: '23, and I was one of the first people in 44 00:02:21,330 --> 00:02:23,459 Stephen Fenech: the world to actually try it. And I've got to 45 00:02:23,459 --> 00:02:25,800 Stephen Fenech: say I've used a lot of VR headsets over the 46 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,250 Stephen Fenech: years, and typically Apple, they made a headset that just 47 00:02:29,250 --> 00:02:32,969 Stephen Fenech: blew everything else away. Just incredible quality. The experience is 48 00:02:32,970 --> 00:02:36,779 Stephen Fenech: remarkable. There were a number of demos where it's like 49 00:02:36,780 --> 00:02:38,369 Stephen Fenech: I was sitting on the edge of a lake. It 50 00:02:38,370 --> 00:02:41,579 Stephen Fenech: felt like I was there. There was another virtual reality 51 00:02:41,820 --> 00:02:45,450 Stephen Fenech: program, an app with dinosaurs. I was watching sport like 52 00:02:45,450 --> 00:02:48,360 Stephen Fenech: I was sitting courtside at a basketball game, at the 53 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,330 Stephen Fenech: baseball. I said to them, if I can watch sport 54 00:02:51,330 --> 00:02:54,360 Stephen Fenech: like that, take my money right now, I'll watch sport 55 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,690 Stephen Fenech: like this every single day. Thing is though, the VR, 56 00:02:58,020 --> 00:03:03,180 Stephen Fenech: they call it a spatial computer, so they deliberately didn't 57 00:03:03,180 --> 00:03:07,080 Stephen Fenech: put VR- AR in the name, it's Vision Pro. They 58 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,230 Stephen Fenech: don't want to pigeonhole themselves in any part of that, 59 00:03:10,590 --> 00:03:14,160 Stephen Fenech: so it's the spatial computer. You can use it like 60 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,008 Stephen Fenech: a computer. You've got this virtual keyboard, this massive screen 61 00:03:17,010 --> 00:03:19,169 Stephen Fenech: that you can put in front of yourself. The app 62 00:03:19,169 --> 00:03:23,310 Stephen Fenech: developers are busily creating apps for it. But is it 63 00:03:23,669 --> 00:03:28,380 Stephen Fenech: something that has Apple got the power to have a 64 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,679 Stephen Fenech: sort of similar like iPhone or iPod type cut through, 65 00:03:31,679 --> 00:03:35,219 Stephen Fenech: iPad cut through? What's against it, I think is the 66 00:03:35,219 --> 00:03:39,060 Stephen Fenech: price. It's expensive. It's going to cost six grand when it comes 67 00:03:39,060 --> 00:03:41,280 Stephen Fenech: out here in Australia, probably later this year. It's going 68 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:46,409 Stephen Fenech: to be... that's again, going to work against it becoming 69 00:03:46,410 --> 00:03:49,440 Stephen Fenech: an everyday product for customers. It's going to be over 70 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,680 Stephen Fenech: the years, hopefully becomes cheaper. But not a bad start. 71 00:03:52,889 --> 00:03:55,260 Stephen Fenech: I've heard mixed reviews about it in America and how 72 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:58,470 Stephen Fenech: people aren't using it as much as when they first 73 00:03:58,470 --> 00:04:00,660 Stephen Fenech: bought it. There were a lot of customers who took 74 00:04:00,660 --> 00:04:04,349 Stephen Fenech: it back before the 14- day, because every Apple product, 75 00:04:04,349 --> 00:04:06,630 Stephen Fenech: you can take it back, no questions asked, after 14 76 00:04:06,630 --> 00:04:09,749 Stephen Fenech: days. A lot of customers who purchased it, they took 77 00:04:09,750 --> 00:04:13,020 Stephen Fenech: it back before the end of that fortnight. So there 78 00:04:13,020 --> 00:04:15,330 Stephen Fenech: are some customers though that are using it. You see 79 00:04:15,330 --> 00:04:18,779 Stephen Fenech: some customers in public using them. That's how it's being 80 00:04:18,779 --> 00:04:23,339 Stephen Fenech: seen. So yet to be really clear how it's going 81 00:04:23,339 --> 00:04:26,700 Stephen Fenech: to land in Australia, but I think the more developers 82 00:04:26,700 --> 00:04:28,498 Stephen Fenech: get behind it, I think we're going to probably see 83 00:04:28,500 --> 00:04:29,339 Stephen Fenech: something pretty special. 84 00:04:29,789 --> 00:04:32,130 Sean Aylmer: What about Meta and the metaverse? Whatever happened to that? 85 00:04:32,790 --> 00:04:36,360 Stephen Fenech: Yeah, Meta, their Meta Quest 3 is very popular. In 86 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,660 Stephen Fenech: fact, Mark Zuckerberg, about a month or two ago, came 87 00:04:39,660 --> 00:04:42,479 Stephen Fenech: up with a video comparing the Meta Quest 3 with 88 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,199 Stephen Fenech: the Vision Pro, and he basically said that the Meta 89 00:04:46,199 --> 00:04:49,109 Stephen Fenech: Quest 3 is better, as you'd expect. And the Meta 90 00:04:49,110 --> 00:04:51,420 Stephen Fenech: Quest 3, by the way, is like a seventh of 91 00:04:51,420 --> 00:04:53,609 Stephen Fenech: the price. So he was sort of saying pound for 92 00:04:53,610 --> 00:04:55,890 Stephen Fenech: pound, he thinks the Meta Quest 3 is probably the 93 00:04:55,890 --> 00:04:59,010 Stephen Fenech: best option. It's got a much more developed ecosystem. It's 94 00:04:59,010 --> 00:05:01,830 Stephen Fenech: been around a bit longer. But the strength of Apple 95 00:05:01,830 --> 00:05:04,289 Stephen Fenech: though, just the quality of the product, the quality of the 96 00:05:04,289 --> 00:05:07,200 Stephen Fenech: experience, the strength of that app store behind it, all 97 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,919 Stephen Fenech: those developers who are creating apps for all of the 98 00:05:11,250 --> 00:05:16,259 Stephen Fenech: Apple platforms, I think it is going to offer a 99 00:05:16,260 --> 00:05:18,809 Stephen Fenech: superior experience than the Meta Quest 3. 100 00:05:19,230 --> 00:05:21,029 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Stephen, we'll be back in a minute. 101 00:05:28,470 --> 00:05:32,488 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to tech journalist, Stephen Fenech, editor of techguide. com. 102 00:05:33,059 --> 00:05:36,960 Sean Aylmer: au. Let's go into AI now. OpenAI has released the 103 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,740 Sean Aylmer: latest version of its ChatGPT platform, it's called ChatGPT- 4 104 00:05:40,740 --> 00:05:44,099 Sean Aylmer: Omni. But I'm interested in what the difference in that 105 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:46,980 Sean Aylmer: is. But have you been surprised by the adoption rates? 106 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,700 Sean Aylmer: I reckon within 12 months people are using this regularly 107 00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:51,570 Sean Aylmer: in their workplace. 108 00:05:51,990 --> 00:05:54,450 Stephen Fenech: Oh, without a doubt. Yeah. I think when we first 109 00:05:54,450 --> 00:05:57,539 Stephen Fenech: saw it at the beginning of last year, everyone was thinking, " 110 00:05:57,540 --> 00:05:59,909 Stephen Fenech: Well, I won't have to write another essay in my 111 00:05:59,910 --> 00:06:01,710 Stephen Fenech: life." A lot of students were celebrating, and then the 112 00:06:01,710 --> 00:06:04,678 Stephen Fenech: education department's banned it of course, but it became an 113 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:09,510 Stephen Fenech: arms race though. So ChatGPT, which is heavily invested... Microsoft's 114 00:06:09,510 --> 00:06:12,899 Stephen Fenech: heavily invested in ChatGPT, that makes up the backbone of 115 00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:16,140 Stephen Fenech: their Copilot, which is on Windows 11 at the moment. 116 00:06:16,589 --> 00:06:20,039 Stephen Fenech: But now Google and Amazon and probably Apple are going 117 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,200 Stephen Fenech: to come up with something as well. It's become an 118 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,130 Stephen Fenech: arms race. Meta has AI now in every application. You 119 00:06:26,130 --> 00:06:31,258 Stephen Fenech: can use AI now on Facebook or WhatsApp or Instagram. So it 120 00:06:31,259 --> 00:06:34,289 Stephen Fenech: is becoming that sort of tool that I think is 121 00:06:34,289 --> 00:06:39,000 Stephen Fenech: going to probably take over search. Search, Google was dominant 122 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,570 Stephen Fenech: there. You search for things, you get results instantly. AI 123 00:06:42,570 --> 00:06:46,650 Stephen Fenech: is going to finesse that and give different results about 124 00:06:46,650 --> 00:06:50,190 Stephen Fenech: the same search, so more in- depth results. But I 125 00:06:50,190 --> 00:06:53,820 Stephen Fenech: think too, it is going to be... I look at 126 00:06:53,820 --> 00:06:56,670 Stephen Fenech: it more like a ladder to help you get up 127 00:06:56,670 --> 00:06:58,589 Stephen Fenech: to where you need to be. So if it's going 128 00:06:58,589 --> 00:07:03,209 Stephen Fenech: to help you summarize a document, summarize your unread emails, 129 00:07:03,660 --> 00:07:06,299 Stephen Fenech: give me ideas on this event that I have to 130 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:09,629 Stephen Fenech: plan. I'm going away to Italy, what should I look 131 00:07:09,630 --> 00:07:12,840 Stephen Fenech: at? Give me an itinerary, those sorts of things, that's 132 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,810 Stephen Fenech: just the starting point. We've seen it now, obviously, you 133 00:07:15,810 --> 00:07:19,950 Stephen Fenech: can write songs and create images and videos. The power 134 00:07:19,950 --> 00:07:23,099 Stephen Fenech: of it is astonishing what it can do in those 135 00:07:23,099 --> 00:07:25,619 Stephen Fenech: areas. It's going to open up a can of worms 136 00:07:25,620 --> 00:07:29,369 Stephen Fenech: in terms of who owns those images that generative AI, 137 00:07:29,369 --> 00:07:32,550 Stephen Fenech: who owns that image? Who owns that video? Am I 138 00:07:32,550 --> 00:07:35,850 Stephen Fenech: okay to use it legally? So there's all those things to 139 00:07:35,850 --> 00:07:39,510 Stephen Fenech: talk about as well. But I'm forever the optimist, thinking 140 00:07:39,510 --> 00:07:41,790 Stephen Fenech: that this is something that's going to help us. It's 141 00:07:41,790 --> 00:07:44,309 Stephen Fenech: going to help us do things better. I remember Steve 142 00:07:44,309 --> 00:07:48,539 Stephen Fenech: Jobs years ago when the personal computer was first coming 143 00:07:48,750 --> 00:07:51,690 Stephen Fenech: up in the '80s, he called it a bicycle for 144 00:07:51,690 --> 00:07:54,810 Stephen Fenech: the mind. He said it's going to help us do 145 00:07:54,810 --> 00:07:57,750 Stephen Fenech: things a lot better and faster. Then this is phase 146 00:07:57,750 --> 00:08:00,300 Stephen Fenech: two of that as well, or phase four. We sort 147 00:08:00,300 --> 00:08:03,450 Stephen Fenech: of had the PC age. We had the internet age, 148 00:08:03,660 --> 00:08:06,990 Stephen Fenech: we've had the smartphone age. Now we're in the AI 149 00:08:07,020 --> 00:08:10,440 Stephen Fenech: age. So this is the latest of those developments that 150 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,500 Stephen Fenech: I think we're going to see some remarkable results in 151 00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:14,130 Stephen Fenech: the years ahead. 152 00:08:14,639 --> 00:08:17,999 Sean Aylmer: It's also interesting in AI, you need to prompt it 153 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,250 Sean Aylmer: or prime it, I think, is the word. You need to 154 00:08:20,250 --> 00:08:22,349 Sean Aylmer: give it instructions, just like you do a Google search. 155 00:08:22,559 --> 00:08:25,560 Sean Aylmer: The better the search terms you use, the better outcome 156 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,800 Sean Aylmer: you get. What I've been amazed with AI is how 157 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,690 Sean Aylmer: quickly the product itself has adapted. So I reckon three 158 00:08:33,690 --> 00:08:36,030 Sean Aylmer: months ago when I used it, it was much harder 159 00:08:36,030 --> 00:08:37,619 Sean Aylmer: than when I use it now. Maybe I'm better at 160 00:08:37,620 --> 00:08:40,439 Sean Aylmer: it, but still I think the product is developing really 161 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:41,130 Sean Aylmer: quickly too. 162 00:08:41,639 --> 00:08:44,069 Stephen Fenech: Yeah, I think from both ends, I think what you 163 00:08:44,070 --> 00:08:46,980 Stephen Fenech: said, how you are talking to it, what you're asking 164 00:08:46,980 --> 00:08:49,650 Stephen Fenech: it to do, that is a lot better. We're getting 165 00:08:49,650 --> 00:08:52,590 Stephen Fenech: better at that. But it's building and building all the 166 00:08:52,590 --> 00:08:57,089 Stephen Fenech: time. It's improving all the time, and that again, goes 167 00:08:57,089 --> 00:08:59,609 Stephen Fenech: back to that arms race, which is happening between all 168 00:08:59,609 --> 00:09:03,150 Stephen Fenech: these big tech companies to be the best. And Apple's 169 00:09:03,150 --> 00:09:06,660 Stephen Fenech: got their Worldwide Developers Conference in about a month, and 170 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,530 Stephen Fenech: word is they're going to lean towards Google as the 171 00:09:10,530 --> 00:09:13,320 Stephen Fenech: backbone of their AI offerings, with their new products and 172 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,080 Stephen Fenech: Siri and all these new developments. And because, I've got 173 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,160 Stephen Fenech: to say, Apple's probably been a little bit behind than 174 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,439 Stephen Fenech: all the other companies, like Microsoft's been on the front 175 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,970 Stephen Fenech: foot with this, Google. Apple, they say that we've had 176 00:09:26,970 --> 00:09:30,090 Stephen Fenech: AI, they call it machine learning, that they've had machine 177 00:09:30,090 --> 00:09:33,210 Stephen Fenech: learning in their products for quite a while, but that's 178 00:09:33,210 --> 00:09:35,608 Stephen Fenech: kind of what I call background AI. They need a 179 00:09:35,609 --> 00:09:41,578 Stephen Fenech: foreground AI like ChatGPT, Copilot, Gemini, all these other brands. 180 00:09:42,059 --> 00:09:44,849 Stephen Fenech: And if Apple can put their Apple spin on it, 181 00:09:44,849 --> 00:09:48,780 Stephen Fenech: Apple's got a really good habit of waving their magic 182 00:09:48,780 --> 00:09:51,420 Stephen Fenech: wand over something and making it better than everything else. 183 00:09:51,630 --> 00:09:55,290 Stephen Fenech: If they can do that, then the next iPhone or 184 00:09:55,470 --> 00:10:01,170 Stephen Fenech: the next macOS, iPadOS, or iOS, then I'm expecting something special. 185 00:10:01,710 --> 00:10:03,630 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Just before we go, we're running out of time 186 00:10:03,630 --> 00:10:06,420 Sean Aylmer: here, Stephen Fenech, but I just do briefly want to 187 00:10:06,420 --> 00:10:10,020 Sean Aylmer: mention quantum computing. Because the Australian government, or Australian governments 188 00:10:10,020 --> 00:10:14,010 Sean Aylmer: actually, state and feds, have put in $ 470 million each, 189 00:10:14,010 --> 00:10:17,880 Sean Aylmer: I think, into PsiQuantum, which is a computing organization trying to 190 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:23,460 Sean Aylmer: create the first quantum computer. How far away are we 191 00:10:23,460 --> 00:10:28,109 Sean Aylmer: from a commercially viable quantum computer, in layman's terms, in 192 00:10:28,109 --> 00:10:29,369 Sean Aylmer: terms I can understand? 193 00:10:30,270 --> 00:10:34,078 Stephen Fenech: Yeah, I think not that close. I think that the 194 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,530 Stephen Fenech: way that we're looking now, the current processes now are 195 00:10:37,530 --> 00:10:40,469 Stephen Fenech: all having at it. I know Apple has got all 196 00:10:40,469 --> 00:10:43,290 Stephen Fenech: these extra cores, and Intel have these multiple cores as 197 00:10:43,290 --> 00:10:46,350 Stephen Fenech: well. They do have now... they've got the CPU, the 198 00:10:46,350 --> 00:10:49,050 Stephen Fenech: GPU, but now they've got a section, the neural engines 199 00:10:49,289 --> 00:10:52,800 Stephen Fenech: that are powering AI. So we're sort of moving in 200 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,380 Stephen Fenech: that direction. I don't think it's going to quite have 201 00:10:55,380 --> 00:10:58,860 Stephen Fenech: that quantum power in a consumer laptop just anytime soon, 202 00:10:58,860 --> 00:11:02,909 Stephen Fenech: but AI is now part of that. All the processes 203 00:11:02,910 --> 00:11:04,920 Stephen Fenech: that are powering, all the latest laptops that have been 204 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,710 Stephen Fenech: released this year, have that added little bit of grunt 205 00:11:07,710 --> 00:11:11,130 Stephen Fenech: that can help handle all that AI processing on device. 206 00:11:11,429 --> 00:11:13,470 Stephen Fenech: I think that's critical. A lot of people think, " Well, 207 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,710 Stephen Fenech: is my information going out there? Is that going up 208 00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:19,708 Stephen Fenech: to the cloud?" Some does, but I think the badge 209 00:11:19,710 --> 00:11:22,229 Stephen Fenech: of honor is all that AI and all that processing 210 00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:25,290 Stephen Fenech: happening on device. So if they can achieve that with 211 00:11:25,290 --> 00:11:28,140 Stephen Fenech: their current processes, then imagine what we're going to see in 212 00:11:28,140 --> 00:11:29,010 Stephen Fenech: the next few years. 213 00:11:29,580 --> 00:11:31,830 Sean Aylmer: Frightening. Stephen, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 214 00:11:32,070 --> 00:11:33,270 Stephen Fenech: My pleasure. Thanks, Sean. 215 00:11:33,630 --> 00:11:37,169 Sean Aylmer: That was tech journalist, Stephen Fenech, editor of techguide. com. 216 00:11:37,710 --> 00:11:40,679 Sean Aylmer: au, T- E- C- H- G- U- I- D- E, techguide. com. 217 00:11:41,129 --> 00:11:43,559 Sean Aylmer: au. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join 218 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:45,570 Sean Aylmer: us every morning for the full episode of Fear and 219 00:11:45,570 --> 00:11:47,819 Sean Aylmer: Greed, daily business news for people who make their own 220 00:11:47,820 --> 00:11:50,339 Sean Aylmer: decisions. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.