1 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,730 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,519 Sean Aylmer: We talk a lot about electric cars. We're seeing a 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:13,619 Sean Aylmer: lot more of them on the road, and there's been 4 00:00:13,620 --> 00:00:16,500 Sean Aylmer: a huge debate in recent days around the government's proposed 5 00:00:16,559 --> 00:00:21,989 Sean Aylmer: national emissions standards. But what about electric trucks? Momentum seems 6 00:00:21,989 --> 00:00:25,050 Sean Aylmer: to be growing behind the decarbonization of heavy transport in 7 00:00:25,050 --> 00:00:27,719 Sean Aylmer: Australia, much of it in just the last 12 months 8 00:00:27,719 --> 00:00:30,000 Sean Aylmer: or so, and one of the big players in this 9 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,379 Sean Aylmer: space is Volvo. Martin Merrick is President of Volvo Group 10 00:00:34,379 --> 00:00:36,239 Sean Aylmer: Australia. Martin, welcome to Fear & Greed. 11 00:00:36,659 --> 00:00:38,280 Martin Merrick: Hi, Sean. Thanks for inviting me. 12 00:00:39,180 --> 00:00:42,480 Sean Aylmer: Last year, trucks were barely referenced in the national EV 13 00:00:42,630 --> 00:00:46,620 Sean Aylmer: strategy. What's changed since then? Why are we hearing more about it? 14 00:00:47,550 --> 00:00:52,019 Martin Merrick: I would say that certainly the industry bodies and ourselves, 15 00:00:52,019 --> 00:00:56,130 Martin Merrick: we've been sharing some information to the ministers. The national 16 00:00:56,130 --> 00:00:59,430 Martin Merrick: heavy vehicle regulator has been doing the same thing, that 17 00:00:59,670 --> 00:01:05,369 Martin Merrick: road transport accounts for a circa 18 to 20% of CO₂ emissions 18 00:01:05,490 --> 00:01:08,580 Martin Merrick: here in Australia. And the fact that we have the 19 00:01:08,580 --> 00:01:12,720 Martin Merrick: technology. If we have some legislation change and then some 20 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:17,340 Martin Merrick: more incentives perhaps, we can really decarbonize the transport industry 21 00:01:17,340 --> 00:01:19,920 Martin Merrick: here in Australia, so it's pretty much low- hanging fruit 22 00:01:20,459 --> 00:01:21,360 Martin Merrick: for the governments. 23 00:01:21,870 --> 00:01:25,139 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so can you talk me through the specifications of 24 00:01:25,139 --> 00:01:27,479 Sean Aylmer: some of these trucks? Volvo launched a range of heavyweight 25 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,530 Sean Aylmer: trucks last year called FH Electrics. How heavy are they? 26 00:01:31,530 --> 00:01:35,670 Sean Aylmer: What's their range? Charging time? All those questions that car 27 00:01:35,670 --> 00:01:37,980 Sean Aylmer: drivers have. I'm sure it's more pertinent in a sense 28 00:01:37,980 --> 00:01:41,190 Sean Aylmer: for long haul. Can you tell me a bit about them? 29 00:01:41,759 --> 00:01:46,679 Martin Merrick: Yeah, absolutely. 35% of our freight task in Australia is 30 00:01:46,679 --> 00:01:52,650 Martin Merrick: urban. So in effect, a customer can utilize an electric 31 00:01:52,650 --> 00:01:56,099 Martin Merrick: vehicle during the day and will get up to 300 32 00:01:56,099 --> 00:02:00,928 Martin Merrick: kilometers depending on the route, the load topography, and then 33 00:02:00,929 --> 00:02:04,079 Martin Merrick: come back in the evening and recharge overnight to go 34 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,599 Martin Merrick: and do the work next day. Now, we've been trialing 35 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,500 Martin Merrick: vehicles in Melbourne with our partner, Linfox, for over two 36 00:02:10,500 --> 00:02:16,230 Martin Merrick: years now. We now have the heavy duty FH here. The FH Electric is 37 00:02:16,230 --> 00:02:19,230 Martin Merrick: actually the international truck of the year, the first time 38 00:02:19,290 --> 00:02:23,520 Martin Merrick: ever an electric truck has received this accolade. So these 39 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,610 Martin Merrick: vehicles can do the job now for 35% of the 40 00:02:26,610 --> 00:02:32,250 Martin Merrick: freight task. If we then look at between Adelaide, Melbourne, 41 00:02:32,309 --> 00:02:36,419 Martin Merrick: up to Brisbane, roughly 80% of the freight task in 42 00:02:36,419 --> 00:02:39,389 Martin Merrick: Australia is on those routes. So we know that for 43 00:02:39,929 --> 00:02:44,669 Martin Merrick: interstate, we need some charging infrastructure. So, the vehicles are 44 00:02:44,669 --> 00:02:47,040 Martin Merrick: there. They can do the job. They've been tried, tested, 45 00:02:47,310 --> 00:02:50,490 Martin Merrick: and in fact, we took a heavy duty BEV from 46 00:02:50,490 --> 00:02:54,330 Martin Merrick: Brisbane all the way to Canberra, so that was a round trip of roughly 2, 47 00:02:54,389 --> 00:02:58,079 Martin Merrick: 500 kilometers. So we had to charge the vehicle top 48 00:02:58,079 --> 00:03:01,380 Martin Merrick: up three times on the route down there and back. 49 00:03:01,380 --> 00:03:05,250 Martin Merrick: But as we say, if you want to have zero emissions, 50 00:03:05,610 --> 00:03:09,179 Martin Merrick: reduce pollution, and reduce the CO₂ overall for the climate, 51 00:03:09,179 --> 00:03:10,470 Martin Merrick: then the solution's there already. 52 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,099 Sean Aylmer: Pardon my casual ignorance on this, but I presume charging 53 00:03:14,099 --> 00:03:17,639 Sean Aylmer: a truck is pretty much the same as charging a car? 54 00:03:18,389 --> 00:03:21,840 Martin Merrick: No, it'll be different. The size of the truck and 55 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,470 Martin Merrick: the batteries and such like, if it's a slow charge, 56 00:03:25,530 --> 00:03:28,980 Martin Merrick: a DC, an AC charge, it'll be maybe six to 57 00:03:28,980 --> 00:03:32,428 Martin Merrick: eight hours. We then have fast chargers, and again, battery 58 00:03:32,429 --> 00:03:36,750 Martin Merrick: technology, charging technology is developing, so it won't be long 59 00:03:36,750 --> 00:03:42,450 Martin Merrick: before we've got one megawatt chargers and as fast chargers 60 00:03:42,450 --> 00:03:45,420 Martin Merrick: as we said, and we could be 45 minutes for 61 00:03:45,420 --> 00:03:48,480 Martin Merrick: a full charge. But generally, what we've been seeing during 62 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,849 Martin Merrick: our trials, we just need to top up the batteries 63 00:03:50,849 --> 00:03:55,200 Martin Merrick: as we go. So, the solution's there. There's absolutely more 64 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,400 Martin Merrick: to do for infrastructure across these major routes, but we 65 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,109 Martin Merrick: can show customers are actually testing and proving that these zero- 66 00:04:04,110 --> 00:04:05,700 Martin Merrick: emission vehicles can do the job. 67 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,000 Sean Aylmer: What about their weight? Because I was reading somewhere that 68 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,399 Sean Aylmer: some of the states who are slowly coming on board, 69 00:04:11,670 --> 00:04:13,710 Sean Aylmer: they seem to be somewhat concerned about the weight of 70 00:04:13,710 --> 00:04:14,670 Sean Aylmer: some of these vehicles. 71 00:04:15,510 --> 00:04:18,150 Martin Merrick: Yeah, we've been working very closely with state government. We now 72 00:04:18,150 --> 00:04:22,230 Martin Merrick: have four of the states. Queensland was the last week to announce 73 00:04:22,620 --> 00:04:26,399 Martin Merrick: major routes and a map, if you like, route map 74 00:04:26,730 --> 00:04:30,570 Martin Merrick: that we can run the heavy duty battery electric vehicles 75 00:04:30,570 --> 00:04:34,410 Martin Merrick: on that. Now, compared to diesel, they're left roughly two ton 76 00:04:34,410 --> 00:04:37,229 Martin Merrick: heavier. So on the front axle and rear axle, we 77 00:04:37,230 --> 00:04:41,099 Martin Merrick: now have eight- ton front axle load and eight- and- a- half- 78 00:04:41,099 --> 00:04:45,240 Martin Merrick: ton rear axle load, so our vehicles can run fully 79 00:04:45,270 --> 00:04:48,990 Martin Merrick: in Queensland right now. And we have a customer who 80 00:04:49,380 --> 00:04:54,029 Martin Merrick: ordered the very first FH Electric, a Queensland family owned business, Followmont 81 00:04:54,029 --> 00:04:56,998 Martin Merrick: Transport, and Mark Tobin truly believes that he wants to 82 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,839 Martin Merrick: be a leader in actually decarbonizing his business in the 83 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,500 Martin Merrick: transport industry. So that vehicle was handed over last week, 84 00:05:04,799 --> 00:05:08,460 Martin Merrick: coinciding with the announcement from the Queensland government, so we can 85 00:05:08,460 --> 00:05:12,330 Martin Merrick: operate these vehicles safely. We did trials during that period. 86 00:05:12,330 --> 00:05:16,529 Martin Merrick: We had long trials, intensive trials with data loggers working 87 00:05:16,529 --> 00:05:21,389 Martin Merrick: with TMR, Queensland TMR, and the NHVR to show that these vehicles can 88 00:05:21,389 --> 00:05:22,438 Martin Merrick: operate safely. 89 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,260 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Martin. We'll be back in a minute. 90 00:05:32,670 --> 00:05:35,520 Sean Aylmer: I am speaking to Martin Merrick, President of Volvo Group 91 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:40,139 Sean Aylmer: Australia. So Queensland's obviously on board. What about New South 92 00:05:40,139 --> 00:05:42,748 Sean Aylmer: Wales, Victoria, South Australia, which you said that corridors are 93 00:05:42,779 --> 00:05:44,969 Sean Aylmer: 80% of the long haul. 94 00:05:45,330 --> 00:05:48,930 Martin Merrick: Yeah, they're on board too. So we're seeing progress there, 95 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,320 Martin Merrick: and some are one and two- year trials, which is 96 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,960 Martin Merrick: fantastic. That means that we can get the vehicles out there with our 97 00:05:55,500 --> 00:06:00,659 Martin Merrick: customers, with their customers, and the general public also. If 98 00:06:00,660 --> 00:06:04,830 Martin Merrick: you take, for example, a major urban area, to have 99 00:06:04,830 --> 00:06:09,000 Martin Merrick: zero emission vehicles there is fantastic for the community and 100 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:09,988 Martin Merrick: society at large. 101 00:06:10,559 --> 00:06:13,469 Sean Aylmer: Okay. What about the federal government? What's its position in 102 00:06:13,469 --> 00:06:14,070 Sean Aylmer: this debate? 103 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,359 Martin Merrick: Federal government, as far as I am concerned, they've got 104 00:06:18,359 --> 00:06:21,990 Martin Merrick: a strong desire to work with the transport industry to 105 00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:26,250 Martin Merrick: decarbonize the transport industry. So you know that there is ARENA, and ARENA 106 00:06:27,089 --> 00:06:30,689 Martin Merrick: has been part of some of the work we've done, particularly 107 00:06:30,779 --> 00:06:35,669 Martin Merrick: with the Team Global Express, with 36 Volvo medium- duty 108 00:06:35,670 --> 00:06:39,870 Martin Merrick: vehicles sold to Team Global Express as part of the 109 00:06:39,870 --> 00:06:43,740 Martin Merrick: ARENA project. So the government at that level certainly are 110 00:06:43,740 --> 00:06:46,709 Martin Merrick: on board. At the same time, I still feel there's 111 00:06:46,710 --> 00:06:50,339 Martin Merrick: more to do to accelerate the adoption rate of battery 112 00:06:50,339 --> 00:06:51,060 Martin Merrick: electric vehicles. 113 00:06:51,928 --> 00:06:54,839 Sean Aylmer: So how do we do that? Is it about the infrastructure? 114 00:06:55,650 --> 00:06:58,650 Martin Merrick: I would say that we have to work together the 115 00:06:58,650 --> 00:07:03,180 Martin Merrick: collaboration between the industry, the OEMs, government at all levels, 116 00:07:03,210 --> 00:07:07,109 Martin Merrick: federal, state, and local. And again, of course, academia with 117 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,509 Martin Merrick: what they're doing and how they can support it. If 118 00:07:09,509 --> 00:07:14,640 Martin Merrick: everyone works together, we can accelerate the transition. Today, we 119 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,460 Martin Merrick: can run vehicles when they charge back at base, but 120 00:07:17,460 --> 00:07:21,809 Martin Merrick: to truly get the real potential and full potential, we 121 00:07:21,809 --> 00:07:25,560 Martin Merrick: need charging infrastructure and we need to support the industry in 122 00:07:25,620 --> 00:07:29,579 Martin Merrick: the transition. Battery costs and what we see right now 123 00:07:30,090 --> 00:07:33,990 Martin Merrick: is, of course, total cost of ownership is a hurdle. 124 00:07:33,990 --> 00:07:36,870 Martin Merrick: We need to work with the customer. So if everyone 125 00:07:36,870 --> 00:07:40,559 Martin Merrick: works together and we think about this strategically, then we 126 00:07:40,559 --> 00:07:42,329 Martin Merrick: can accelerate the transition. 127 00:07:43,170 --> 00:07:46,650 Sean Aylmer: So where do you think we'll be in 10 years? 128 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:47,999 Sean Aylmer: What's the goal here? 129 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,340 Martin Merrick: Of course, we don't share our future plans overall, but 130 00:07:53,340 --> 00:07:56,130 Martin Merrick: we know that we've made a clear commitment that we 131 00:07:56,130 --> 00:08:00,179 Martin Merrick: will be net- zero emissions by 2050. That means most 132 00:08:00,179 --> 00:08:03,719 Martin Merrick: of the trucks in the road are a 10- year- old running population, 133 00:08:03,719 --> 00:08:07,500 Martin Merrick: so we need to be providing fossil free transport solutions 134 00:08:07,530 --> 00:08:11,640 Martin Merrick: by 2040. Now, we don't believe it's a single silver 135 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,540 Martin Merrick: bullet with electric vehicles. We will continue to invest in 136 00:08:15,990 --> 00:08:19,830 Martin Merrick: internal combustion engines with renewable fuels. We are investing in 137 00:08:19,860 --> 00:08:23,699 Martin Merrick: fuel cell electric vehicles. And we believe that across the 138 00:08:23,699 --> 00:08:26,490 Martin Merrick: range that we have, we will be able to achieve 139 00:08:26,490 --> 00:08:31,560 Martin Merrick: that target by 2040. By the announcement that we've seen that was 140 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,500 Martin Merrick: released by the state government in Queensland last week and 141 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:38,520 Martin Merrick: having three other states on board, we have our factory 142 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,429 Martin Merrick: here at Wacol. We've been here for 52 years building 143 00:08:41,429 --> 00:08:44,429 Martin Merrick: Volvo and Mack trucks, and that gives us the green 144 00:08:44,429 --> 00:08:47,939 Martin Merrick: light to invest even more to build battery electric vehicles 145 00:08:47,970 --> 00:08:52,228 Martin Merrick: right here in Australia at our factory at Wacol. So it's all 146 00:08:52,230 --> 00:08:55,740 Martin Merrick: coming together, and I believe that if there's more working 147 00:08:55,889 --> 00:08:59,699 Martin Merrick: even closer together, our customers have a desire. So all 148 00:08:59,699 --> 00:09:04,380 Martin Merrick: levels of government, industry, academia, we can accelerate the transition. 149 00:09:04,860 --> 00:09:06,390 Sean Aylmer: Martin, I'm not sure whether you're going to answer this 150 00:09:06,390 --> 00:09:12,208 Sean Aylmer: question, but you talked about alternative fossil fuel- free options 151 00:09:12,210 --> 00:09:16,708 Sean Aylmer: like internal combustion engines with renewable fuel supplies. As we 152 00:09:16,708 --> 00:09:21,840 Sean Aylmer: go forward, do you think one or other will dominate? 153 00:09:21,929 --> 00:09:24,330 Sean Aylmer: Now, obviously we have billionaires in Australia putting a lot 154 00:09:24,330 --> 00:09:28,020 Sean Aylmer: of money into hydrogen to try and help heavy transport, 155 00:09:28,020 --> 00:09:30,179 Sean Aylmer: that type of thing. I don't really want to comment 156 00:09:30,179 --> 00:09:32,009 Sean Aylmer: on that. I just want to know whether you think 157 00:09:32,009 --> 00:09:35,189 Sean Aylmer: that one or other solution will dominate eventually. 158 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,290 Martin Merrick: We are clear that we don't see one single solution. 159 00:09:40,350 --> 00:09:43,260 Martin Merrick: That's why we are investing more than ever before in 160 00:09:43,260 --> 00:09:47,729 Martin Merrick: the full range. As I've said, internal combustion engine will 161 00:09:47,730 --> 00:09:50,670 Martin Merrick: be with us for many years to come, particularly in 162 00:09:50,670 --> 00:09:53,639 Martin Merrick: Australia, when we look at the type of work that we do with 163 00:09:53,639 --> 00:09:58,260 Martin Merrick: road trains, heavy loads, long distances and such like. So 164 00:09:58,590 --> 00:10:03,030 Martin Merrick: really, it'll be segment by segment, customer by customer, that 165 00:10:03,030 --> 00:10:04,979 Martin Merrick: there'll be a clear strategy that we will have the 166 00:10:04,980 --> 00:10:09,960 Martin Merrick: solution for any eventuality. So we're investing in all solutions. 167 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,410 Sean Aylmer: Fantastic. Martin, thank you very much for talking to Fear & Greed. 168 00:10:14,010 --> 00:10:14,819 Martin Merrick: Great. Thanks, Sean. 169 00:10:15,450 --> 00:10:18,960 Sean Aylmer: That was Martin Merrick, President of Volvo Group Australia. This 170 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,599 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear & Greed Business Interview. Join us every morning 171 00:10:21,599 --> 00:10:24,330 Sean Aylmer: for the full episode of Fear & Greed, Australia's best business 172 00:10:24,330 --> 00:10:26,820 Sean Aylmer: podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.