Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 1: Detective see aside of life the average person is never
Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, said,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talked to. Some
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of my chat with j Malcohn,
Speaker 1: a former heroin trafficker, a Biki, an underworld fixer, and
Speaker 1: the family man. If you listen to part one, we
Speaker 1: found out a bit about Jay's crazy life, how we
Speaker 1: build a business, did ten years in prison sentence that
Speaker 1: he believes made him come out a better person. Now
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about his life post prison. J Malcohn,
Speaker 1: Welcome back to I catch Killers.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 1: Okay, So in part one we're talking that you got
Speaker 1: out of prison and you felt twelve foot tall. You
Speaker 1: had a fortunate situation where eight hundred and eighty thousand
Speaker 1: dollars was going to one eight one hundred eighty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be here still spending it. And also you
Speaker 1: became a promator for an opera singer and all sorts
Speaker 1: of things. I'm looking at your life there, and I'm
Speaker 1: looking at your life through what I was reading your book,
Speaker 1: The Consultant, which is a great, great read. Recommend it
Speaker 1: to anyone that wants to get a real understanding of
Speaker 1: the world we're talking about now. But I didn't pick
Speaker 1: you at that point in time. There was an independence
Speaker 1: about you. I didn't pick you the type of guy
Speaker 1: to go into an OMCG. To me, like, I see
Speaker 1: the pathway the people going into OMCG, and yeah, they're
Speaker 1: they're kicking around there at a bit of a loose end,
Speaker 1: and they want to feel part of a brotherhood, which
Speaker 1: I'm sure you got. But what attracted you to it.
Speaker 2: I would never thought myself in the club. I mean,
Speaker 2: when we were grown up, the bikers were old school
Speaker 2: bikies and this is something I was not attracted to.
Speaker 2: But a friend of mine started the club in Melbourne
Speaker 2: and they're going to fly the flag. But they had
Speaker 2: issues now and then, and you would often call me
Speaker 2: to help resolve some issues. And I met, I met
Speaker 2: the guys, the hierarchies, and they were I was instantly
Speaker 2: attracted to them. It was something I notice I'm not
Speaker 2: seen for a long time.
Speaker 1: You said you met with the upper leaders.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the leaders and champion blokes like proper, proper, and
Speaker 2: they were united. They were a brotherhood and they all
Speaker 2: they all ran the ball. There was no there was
Speaker 2: no shyness amongst any of them, and they had so
Speaker 2: much respect for each other. It was like, it's the
Speaker 2: way it should be. I don't know how it is
Speaker 2: in other clubs, but in this particular club. This is
Speaker 2: why they grew so strong so quick as they were
Speaker 2: united and they were capable and they were fucking willing.
Speaker 2: But you know, in this environment bike world, you know
Speaker 2: there's always going to be a degree of violence and
Speaker 2: you know, so these guys handle it. And so things
Speaker 2: were happening in Melbourne.
Speaker 1: So you on that. And we don't need the name names,
Speaker 1: but a couple of things. I understand the language, but
Speaker 1: run the ball. These were people that would step up
Speaker 1: if they needed to step up, and that's something that
Speaker 1: you respected.
Speaker 2: They would step up instantly, like there's no shyness, there's
Speaker 2: no let's talk about this, let's see how we're going
Speaker 2: to go, going to go this week, and there's like
Speaker 2: fuck that, let's go and you know they're but they
Speaker 2: were all like that. When I say all the ones
Speaker 2: that i'd met are very cool individuals, it's very hard
Speaker 2: to resist that. I mean, I just I was incarcerated
Speaker 2: for ten years. I mean all sorts. Yeah, individual you know,
Speaker 2: individuals that was equally is hectic.
Speaker 1: And being attracted to that, I think it would be
Speaker 1: fair to say. And I don't think ego is necessarily
Speaker 1: a bad thing, but it would be striking your ego
Speaker 1: being part of a group or so.
Speaker 2: These guys are monsters in the industry, These are these
Speaker 2: are the alphas.
Speaker 1: But yeah, getting back to what it attracts you, and
Speaker 1: I think if people are on us, there is an
Speaker 1: ego because the alpha mile you're part of a gang,
Speaker 1: a very big game. You walk somewhere, you're part of
Speaker 1: the gang. You give them respect, whether it's in a
Speaker 1: club or wherever you're going.
Speaker 2: But having said that, so to catch up your independence. Still,
Speaker 2: if you have a problem, they expect you to sort
Speaker 2: your own problem out. You can all rally together like
Speaker 2: a football team. So let's go and get them. Okay,
Speaker 2: you got a problem, sort that, mate. You know, if
Speaker 2: you can't sort that, why are you part of us?
Speaker 2: Because we can sort of our shit out.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: They weren't there to lend a hand and help you
Speaker 2: step up and do your ship. You sort your own
Speaker 2: fucking shit out, all right.
Speaker 1: Now. They were looking at or they had a chapter
Speaker 1: set up down in Albourn, and that's what you went to. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: you didn't. You didn't go as a normal.
Speaker 2: So I met the guys a couple of times. They
Speaker 2: really liked me. They knew about me, they'd heard a
Speaker 2: few things. I did the due diligence, and they offered
Speaker 2: me a role. And it was hard to resist when
Speaker 2: you got I had so much respect for these guys, yeah,
Speaker 2: for their achievements and what they're capable of. Asking you
Speaker 2: to jump on, and I was like, sure, let's do it.
Speaker 1: It would be a stressful role trying to manage, manage,
Speaker 1: or lead a outlaw motorcycle gang. In that there were Wow, guys,
Speaker 1: you're going to have to keep them in line. So
Speaker 1: when I say stressful, there'd be a lot of work
Speaker 1: that you've got to do to keep them in line.
Speaker 2: I see, I took a page out of mctoomb's book. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 2: we end up with three chapters, nearly four and a
Speaker 2: lot of members, and I made all the decisions. But
Speaker 2: I didn't allow them to make decisions. Now the president's
Speaker 2: no one. So we'd have our weeklies. I'd chair all
Speaker 2: the meetings and we you know, we'd all out and
Speaker 2: I'll let them have a pretend vote and to just
Speaker 2: tell them how it's going to be. Okay, problem with
Speaker 2: both clubs, and when you're dealing with multiples, not all
Speaker 2: of them are sensible. Most of them just want to
Speaker 2: have fun. And I'll do sort of things like vote
Speaker 2: to have our national run at the clubhouse until ten.
Speaker 2: Then all go to the strippers. Three hundred members.
Speaker 1: That's going to which what happened?
Speaker 2: Yeah, no consideration of you know, what can the possiblity
Speaker 2: be who's going to get arrested? You know who's going
Speaker 2: to be He's going to get fucking hurt.
Speaker 1: Well, if they do that, it's inevitable that ship's going
Speaker 1: to go down. And yeah, so they had that.
Speaker 2: In my absence and that's what they voted, So clearly
Speaker 2: I sort of that out. But this is why I ran.
Speaker 2: I made all the decisions made.
Speaker 1: Okay, did they fall in the line.
Speaker 2: It was an optional. You have to lead with aggression
Speaker 2: otherwise you're not going to be respected. I'll let you
Speaker 2: know that. If there's a crack or a weakness, somebody
Speaker 2: will have a crack. So you know, you just got
Speaker 2: to stay on top of all that. You have to
Speaker 2: be feared. I mean, look, there's one there's a few
Speaker 2: members in a few clubs that are the alphas, and
Speaker 2: that's because they're fucking feared for good reason, you know
Speaker 2: how it is?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think and it's personally. I love hearing this
Speaker 1: because I know that is that is the world, and
Speaker 1: quite often people don't speak so openly. So yeah, that
Speaker 1: is the world that I understood that the way it operated.
Speaker 1: So you enjoyed the role.
Speaker 2: I enjoyed it for a minute. It was good when
Speaker 2: we was small, and then we grew and it became
Speaker 2: you know, still manageable, but it becameted becoming hard work.
Speaker 2: Like you said, the more you have to people you
Speaker 2: have to manage, the more issues that and plus like
Speaker 2: you know, I had members that were just below me,
Speaker 2: that were younger and ambitious, and it was time for
Speaker 2: them to step up. They wanted to step up, and it.
Speaker 1: Was it was actually their time succession plan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, so I'd planned my own time for six months,
Speaker 2: so it wasn't something I just decided to do. And
Speaker 2: I had discussed that with the high rarch if over
Speaker 2: a six month period, and the person that was going
Speaker 2: to take over, he was keen to take over, you know,
Speaker 2: he was the man for the job.
Speaker 1: A couple of things, and I'm not delving into the
Speaker 1: biky world, but you made a point there that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: as it got bigger, it got harder to manage because
Speaker 1: you're bringing people in, i know, with clubs. And this
Speaker 1: is just my observation from where I was sitting on
Speaker 1: the on the other side that when there was recruitment
Speaker 1: and they bought a lot of people in, there was
Speaker 1: more problems because they were bringing dickheads in and all
Speaker 1: sorts of things. I'm not talking con I'm talking talking general,
Speaker 1: but when there's an expansion and they're not vetting people.
Speaker 1: That's where you see people come unstuck.
Speaker 2: We also get the ones that want hard in a
Speaker 2: club because they're up to the near various activities. Yeah
Speaker 2: you know, whatever they're doing, so they need a bit
Speaker 2: of protection. They come on as good blokes and they're
Speaker 2: just using the club for protection. So it's hard to wear.
Speaker 2: You've got to be through all that shit, and it
Speaker 2: does happen. They get through, and it's easy to be
Speaker 2: a good bloke for a short period of time. Convince
Speaker 2: someone that you're all that Ye sneak through the cracks.
Speaker 1: Oh well yeah, in any walk of life. And I
Speaker 1: found that interesting that your book talking about the world
Speaker 1: in bikings, but it's corporate world. There's a lot of things.
Speaker 1: That's a police organization. There's a whole thing, a whole lot,
Speaker 1: and some of the stuff you could almost do a
Speaker 1: leadership talk. And it's a strange form of leadership leading
Speaker 1: an outlaw motorcycle gang. But there were issues that arise
Speaker 1: in in any organization.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, just jal with personalities, aren't you really Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he goes personalities and then the people undermining and
Speaker 1: I saw where you've had people undermining.
Speaker 2: You, Oh they have a crack. You've got to deal
Speaker 2: with it.
Speaker 1: Most definitely. I think if you don't deal with people
Speaker 1: undermining and I'm not talking just Bikis here, I'm talking
Speaker 1: in any organization. In my own experience in the cops,
Speaker 1: I underestimated people that were undermining me. I thinking they're
Speaker 1: just useless, lazy pricks that I don't really care about.
Speaker 1: But when they spend their whole time trying to fuck you, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they can do some damage, saying one rotten apple spoils
Speaker 1: a great very much so, very much so. Now leaving
Speaker 1: you had a succession plan six months. You know, the
Speaker 1: fied people's perception is that you join, you can never leave.
Speaker 2: A lot of clubs are like that, they own you.
Speaker 2: I mean, like in my experience, there's just such cool individuals.
Speaker 2: They the hierarchy, the ones that are gravitated towards you know,
Speaker 2: they're in the club, they have their life outside the club.
Speaker 2: It's hard to put your finger on it. Coming from
Speaker 2: my background. For you, you probably wouldn't appreciate it. For
Speaker 2: my background, violence, incarceration, drugs. Seeing these guys in the
Speaker 2: way they held themselves and carried themselves in their willingness,
Speaker 2: and the brotherhood was like, fuck, give me some of that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you want me, I'm down.
Speaker 1: You brought in a bit of style to the fashion sense.
Speaker 2: Well, I know they were fashionable. They were driving the
Speaker 2: g wagons and the Lebiennis. You know, my car wasn't
Speaker 2: that lumpy.
Speaker 1: Okay, So when did you join them? When did you
Speaker 1: get out rough figures eleven to two thirteen. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: when you joined so in there for two years. Okay,
Speaker 1: you've probably got the out at the right time.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look when I left was it was still okay,
Speaker 2: it was still okay. There were the state's run differently
Speaker 2: in Victoria. I don't know how it's running here and
Speaker 2: I still haven't got my head around it. But the
Speaker 2: when the police of the police there and there, they
Speaker 2: don't fuck around, bro, I mean they you know, they
Speaker 2: do the job, do it effectively. You fuck up, we
Speaker 2: catch you, We're going to put you in jail. We
Speaker 2: don't catch you, We'll catch you eventually. I don't know
Speaker 2: how it runs here, but they're not. The police aren't
Speaker 2: scared in Melbourne. I'm not suggesting they're scared here.
Speaker 1: I was just going to check it.
Speaker 2: If you want to drive around with your colors, drive
Speaker 2: an your colors. I mean, if you're gonna playup and
Speaker 2: you're gonna wear your colors, you're putting a tag on
Speaker 2: your back. Yeah, but listen by, clubs have misunderstood. For
Speaker 2: the most part, bike is joined bike clubs to ride
Speaker 2: bikes and enjoy the brotherhood. Honestly, you know you're going
Speaker 2: to get a percentage that want to play up, and
Speaker 2: you're going to get another smaller percentage that are huge
Speaker 2: and successful playing up and they're hiring you know, some
Speaker 2: hiding clubs, and some don't give a fuck about the club.
Speaker 2: They're just they've inherited the club. But most bike is
Speaker 2: just want to ride bikes. Man. I remember my all
Speaker 2: my members, most of them worked at families and couldn't
Speaker 2: afford too much time for the bike club.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, when when you were in
Speaker 1: the bike club, like the game comes first, how did
Speaker 1: you manage family? Did you have in a relationship? First?
Speaker 2: Family? Camp first? Yeah, family, then work then gang. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you didn't have your family support and didn't have
Speaker 2: a job, you're not good to meet mate. If you
Speaker 2: can't pay your duties, fuck off. Someone's going to pay
Speaker 2: the rent, you know what I mean? Like, so family first,
Speaker 2: if you didn't have stability and you weren't employed, you
Speaker 2: were going to be a problem. That's how I perceived it.
Speaker 2: So more my guys worked.
Speaker 1: How do you and your reference it in the book
Speaker 1: where we don't have to go in the specific details.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you're running a chapter, this is your turf.
Speaker 1: Someone from a rival gang moves in too close? How
Speaker 1: do you negotiating skills manager twice? How did you manage that?
Speaker 2: You know, move on, bro.
Speaker 1: You just said, excuse me, we're here.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. We were there first, and I knew
Speaker 2: both presidents and they're both good blokes from different teams.
Speaker 2: And the first one he didn't know what were there
Speaker 2: because this is just when I first jumped on. And
Speaker 2: like I said, the other three guys didn't do it.
Speaker 2: They didn't fly the flag. So they had a clubhouse
Speaker 2: next to a massage parlor.
Speaker 1: That's not a good look.
Speaker 2: No, it was more of a gage that they never attended,
Speaker 2: They never wrote, never wore their colors, and no one
Speaker 2: knew they existed. So this fellow opened up a clubhouse
Speaker 2: literally two blocks down the road. So when I told
Speaker 2: him we were here. He was surprised, but he respected
Speaker 2: they were there first. So it's like you to move.
Speaker 2: You've got to move, bro, And I said, let me
Speaker 2: give me, give me an hour. I'll go get the president.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about it. This is when I first came
Speaker 2: on as sergeant. So I went saw the press. You
Speaker 2: lived around the corner. So this is a proper outlaw club,
Speaker 2: not to be fucked with. You need to come and
Speaker 2: talk to this guy and let's work it out. I'll
Speaker 2: work it out. You need to be present. I said,
Speaker 2: I'm taking my missus shopping to Cole's. Can you deal
Speaker 2: with it?
Speaker 1: Oh, that's yeah, this is the leader. There's no much
Speaker 1: respect there.
Speaker 2: So I went back and saw the other fellow. I said, listen,
Speaker 2: I'll tell we're going to do it. Just up the
Speaker 2: road there is Paul Malvin. There's plenty of fucking factories.
Speaker 2: It's another suburb. I'll pay the bond, I'll take the
Speaker 2: rent that you've paid already, and you can just go
Speaker 2: up the road. And there was the agreement we made.
Speaker 2: So I succeeded in taking the clubhouse off another club.
Speaker 2: So when Dax came out to see this, count Mike president,
Speaker 2: and he showed him the clubhouses. He wanted to make
Speaker 2: me after I said, you guys, yeah good, But I said,
Speaker 2: what do you think is just starting? You know you
Speaker 2: you'll get on your feed. What do you mean.
Speaker 1: It was hiding what you had done?
Speaker 2: He didn't tell him. That's when I threw the towel
Speaker 2: and I said, there's nothing me but you hang on,
Speaker 2: Hang on a minute. That's what happened. Listens, Yeah, bro,
Speaker 2: I didn't tell you. He said, no. He was fucking
Speaker 2: thrilled that it happened, and he goes made us listen,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to drop the colors off now. I
Speaker 2: don't want to play this game because no, no, you stay.
Speaker 2: He's got to go. So they tipped him. Okay, that's
Speaker 2: how it became president, and rightly so, so he went
Speaker 2: shopping the cols.
Speaker 1: I look completely different world, but I know in the cops,
Speaker 1: if running the job, I expect, what do you mean
Speaker 1: you can't work this weekend? The job's on. We've got
Speaker 1: to do it. So it happens. But no, you're giving
Speaker 1: us an interesting insight. You got out of the gangs,
Speaker 1: and then is that the period of time where you
Speaker 1: wanted to distance yourself from everything here and you went
Speaker 1: over and lived in Jubai.
Speaker 2: I was working for a couple of mining companies. I
Speaker 2: was making really good money.
Speaker 1: Tell us about so tell us about that. Again, you
Speaker 1: don't have to break it down specifics, but where there's
Speaker 1: the money come from working for mining companies with a
Speaker 1: person of your type of skills and.
Speaker 2: Bad predominantly from well, I was protecting one particular guy.
Speaker 2: But when you do mediations for them, like a partnership dissolves,
Speaker 2: particularly on one partnership had dissolved, and I was dividing
Speaker 2: everything up and there was one company that was worth
Speaker 2: a lot of money still not arguing about it. And
Speaker 2: I happened to be in London when this is all happening,
Speaker 2: and I was off for the job of getting the
Speaker 2: guys to drop off and let them deal with it
Speaker 2: in court. And for that I was paid eight million
Speaker 2: shares or half of sixteen and eight me up is.
Speaker 2: The shares are worth probably five and a half million
Speaker 2: bucks and other things, a lot of.
Speaker 1: Cash whisper in the microphone. I can still a lot of.
Speaker 2: Cash anyway, So I did the job, okay, took ten minutes,
Speaker 2: and so that was your role.
Speaker 1: In mediating, you're okay, well we could go to war
Speaker 1: on this, or it could get ugly, or.
Speaker 2: It's a lizard thing. People know me all right. So
Speaker 2: the people I was dealing with already.
Speaker 1: Knew you come with the reputation, Well I.
Speaker 2: Already knew them. There was a degree of mutual respect
Speaker 2: and understanding, and it was more let's sit down and
Speaker 2: how we're going to work this out. We're not the enemies.
Speaker 2: They are the enemies. We need to work this out
Speaker 2: for them because they're fuck wits. They can't work it out,
Speaker 2: and that's what we did. They got paid by their bloke,
Speaker 2: they get paid by my bloke, and we worked it out. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: after we worked it out, my moron, who is a drunk,
Speaker 2: started ringing them, saying, no, events couldn't help you.
Speaker 1: Could They let's wave in a red flag.
Speaker 2: But it took me another year, was up and down.
Speaker 2: Cost him a stack. But it was okay for me, like.
Speaker 1: Don't insult me.
Speaker 2: Well, don it's not them. You know, they're serious people
Speaker 2: as well, like they were doing me a favor. We
Speaker 2: worked it out as gentlemen. And it can go either way.
Speaker 2: We can bang it on, they can bang it on.
Speaker 1: Did you see this as then like a career path
Speaker 1: something that we're you're making money and you said, you're
Speaker 1: always looking for opportunities.
Speaker 2: But I couldn't understand. I couldn't. I couldn't believe the
Speaker 2: amount of money that was involved. It was insane amounts
Speaker 2: of money. We did stupid shit for a lot less.
Speaker 2: So I latched onto this team and I hung on
Speaker 2: to him for the next ten years. And it was great.
Speaker 1: It was a great ride, and it took you around
Speaker 1: the world, didn't it.
Speaker 2: Often I'd be in the I'd be all over the world.
Speaker 2: He loved me. This guy. He had a lot of
Speaker 2: issues with people in the industry. So then they got
Speaker 2: to a stage where no one could commute. I was
Speaker 2: lawed to call him that to call me, and I
Speaker 2: would decide whether I'm going to let you talk to
Speaker 2: him or not. And it was really good.
Speaker 1: So you would learn from someone on negotiating and seeing
Speaker 1: that the business level at that well.
Speaker 2: I had his partner. He preferred not to be mentioned.
Speaker 2: He's a very good friend of Minia has been. I'll
Speaker 2: go old to this guy, and he gave me a
Speaker 2: lot of direction, and you know, I have to be
Speaker 2: honest A lot of times he'd be telling me, rattling
Speaker 2: off stocks and amounts and there's nude. Wouldn't fucking listen.
Speaker 2: I wasn't paying attention. Clearly, it wasn't paying it because I'm
Speaker 2: missing on a lot of opportunities. But so he guided
Speaker 2: me a lot of the way. And that first job,
Speaker 2: he mediated the he negotiated the result. He said, he'll
Speaker 2: take care of before you. What do you want to achieve?
Speaker 2: He sause, I just want to be left alone. Let's
Speaker 2: work at it in court. Okay, So this is what we want.
Speaker 2: And he kept half when I took half, and he
Speaker 2: paid very very well. But what he paid was only
Speaker 2: it was less than ten percent of what he got
Speaker 2: because the company had about hundred seventy million ducks in it.
Speaker 2: I wasn't paying attention.
Speaker 1: Big yeah, worse.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I did? Oh my god? What
Speaker 2: After I resolved at frustrated Sydney to the account I said, mate,
Speaker 2: don't know about that me and it took me ten minutes.
Speaker 2: Just give me a million. I walked away from seven
Speaker 2: million shares exactly.
Speaker 1: Put yourself up. Okay, so you're making some money, very
Speaker 1: good money, or the sounds of it. That could have
Speaker 1: been a lot better if you were actually listening. But
Speaker 1: you took the family over and moved over to Dubai.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had problems with the schools. My girls were
Speaker 2: going to Melbum Girls Grammar and the teachers. I was
Speaker 2: in the media a lot, not for anything I'd done
Speaker 2: other than it being in a park club and the moms,
Speaker 2: rightly so would be concerned. But they when we get
Speaker 2: court in some sort of crossfire. So they were rallying
Speaker 2: behind our backs to have our kids with me from
Speaker 2: the school. And they're isolating our children and it's getting
Speaker 2: go uncomfortable. So I thought, you know, I can continue
Speaker 2: to do this and be selfish or throw the towel
Speaker 2: in go af a couple of years, come back and
Speaker 2: start again. So we opted for that.
Speaker 1: What was the lifestyle like over there?
Speaker 2: But I was rolling hard in Victoria. I got whatever
Speaker 2: I wanted. I get to Dubai and I just didn't rate.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's just what So in Victoria everyone knows
Speaker 1: who you are. You got money in your pocket.
Speaker 2: Whatever, lived well, drove well, respect friends, restaurants, bars, whatever
Speaker 2: you want.
Speaker 1: You're a big fish in a small park. Correct, And
Speaker 1: then you've gone over there.
Speaker 2: I did not rate zero. No one ever finished in
Speaker 2: my direction, which I didn't mind. I wasn't there for that.
Speaker 2: But I'm saying the difference in life. I've gone from
Speaker 2: here to here. It's like being incarcerated again. I going
Speaker 2: from a penthouse to sell not exactly, but you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. So my life for me was okay
Speaker 2: because I still had my international shit going on read
Speaker 2: international clubs. We started off Spain, and we were in
Speaker 2: Seraova and other parts of the world, and so I
Speaker 2: was often traveling to Europe and I still enjoyed.
Speaker 1: So you like you were in a pauper your life wasn't.
Speaker 2: I wasn't breadline, no, no, no. We lived. I was
Speaker 2: fifty five, so the kumula a little bit of wealth
Speaker 2: over the years. Yeah, and we took a lot with
Speaker 2: us and plus I mentioned that I only took one
Speaker 2: billion shares, but he put me on a contract and
Speaker 2: he paid me very well for the next five years,
Speaker 2: so he made it all up. Then all my money
Speaker 2: was getting paid over there because I had money over
Speaker 2: this in there as well, So it wasn't difficult. And
Speaker 2: I traveled a lot London, Europe, Africa. It was a
Speaker 2: good location for Central Central and the missus worked and
Speaker 2: it was good.
Speaker 1: You enjoying the lifestyle, loved it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good splut. Yeah you've been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been.
Speaker 2: Yeah, really good spot. You just need a lot of money.
Speaker 2: You run it real quick.
Speaker 1: Policeman's wage didn't quite cut it. But can I can
Speaker 1: I bring up by Wayne Snyder?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're you're in Dubai. He was in Dubai.
Speaker 1: I met Wayne in Dubai and he Hell's Angels.
Speaker 2: He was Hell's Angels. I met him in Dubai. He
Speaker 2: was living in Dubai through a mutual fan. He rang
Speaker 2: me and said he gave me a story about Wayne.
Speaker 2: I'd never met him, and he gave him the same
Speaker 2: story about me, just so we can meet worked. That
Speaker 2: made him nice boke, and we caught up now then.
Speaker 1: But you had like, yeah, the gangs can be rivals,
Speaker 1: but you can look at an individual.
Speaker 2: I was transparent, so I would let the seniors know, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm going to catch up with this bloke. Was sweet, yeah, sweet,
Speaker 2: and so it was all good. I didn't I didn't
Speaker 2: hide anything I was. I wasn't trying to be tricky
Speaker 2: or sneaky. Or trying to make friends with the opposition. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because a lot of the guys don't like for a
Speaker 2: long time, they wanted him dead. He survived all that.
Speaker 2: So I went a few times and then he migrated
Speaker 2: to Thailand. I was going to Thailand every now and then.
Speaker 2: We'd catch up a bunch of healths angels.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he must have vouched for it.
Speaker 2: But he was a bus so that i'd be I'd
Speaker 2: be sitting next to him and they can all fuck off. Yell.
Speaker 2: That's the attitude he had. We just liked each other.
Speaker 2: It wasn't based on anything other than personalities. We didn't
Speaker 2: work together. He didn't need me, I didn't need him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just a friend friendship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't friendship basically. Yeah, name of a long
Speaker 2: period of time, so there wasn't much foundation there. But
Speaker 2: we you know, we we clicked and knew you could
Speaker 2: trust me because I thought I could trust him, no doubt. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there was some I mean, I did some work in
Speaker 2: in Europe. It was from Switzerland, Germany, Austria, and it
Speaker 2: was a big recovery. I was on and I needed help.
Speaker 2: So I got onto the I got through through our
Speaker 2: way and I'm going to the Angels and.
Speaker 1: They helped me with the job and were in the era.
Speaker 2: Well, the Germans. The Germans, the Angels are very strong
Speaker 2: right in Germany. So as Chinal was tracking this countdown,
Speaker 2: he's very been very elusive and had fucking a team
Speaker 2: watching him for anyway, long story, but the Angels stepped
Speaker 2: up and helped me and we recovered it. It was good,
Speaker 2: good job, we'll benefit from it. So that's we had
Speaker 2: that sort of relationship. And this is legitdn't work, it
Speaker 2: was it was all conducted in a solicitor's office. So
Speaker 2: that so that's sort of relationship we had. And so
Speaker 2: I hate to go to Thailand for medical reasons and
Speaker 2: and obviously I called May and he lives in Tailwind.
Speaker 2: We're going to catch up, and we did. We caught
Speaker 2: up for a few days. We stayed in the Penase
Speaker 2: in Bangkok and we trained, had a few laughs, and.
Speaker 1: It was it was from that at that time when
Speaker 1: he disappeared, or not disappeared, he was murdered.
Speaker 2: What happened was he was very sad. But back then Yah,
Speaker 2: at that time a third person joined us and then
Speaker 2: he got on the drugs, got on the girls and
Speaker 2: the next thing, you know, when I have a bit
Speaker 2: of a crack. Now it's the next day, I get
Speaker 2: my results. I'm ready to leave. He didn't want me
Speaker 2: to leave, mate. He wanted me to go to Potato.
Speaker 2: There was no way I was going to Potato. I've
Speaker 2: never been a Potato, but I've heard about a Potato.
Speaker 2: He wouldn't take that for an answer. What I didn't
Speaker 2: know then is he he spotted that car two weeks
Speaker 2: earlier and he left Potato and he was in I
Speaker 2: think Kosa moved for two weeks, waited for me to come. No,
Speaker 2: not to rescue him, but he was just waiting. And
Speaker 2: I didn't know that he'd seen that. And it was
Speaker 2: a bit.
Speaker 1: Uncomfortable, right, so suspicious looking he later, Yeah, I said,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm putting the pieces together myself.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's from one point or not,
Speaker 2: so it could be just fucking off with the fairies,
Speaker 2: to be honest with you. But he would not not
Speaker 2: let me go to Potato. I had to go to Potato, mate.
Speaker 2: So I went to Potato and we were still partying
Speaker 2: and I eventually went to sleep. Yeah, shit happened.
Speaker 1: And let's see he disappeared, and I think his body
Speaker 1: was found twenty four hours later.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they knew where he was. They had the
Speaker 2: whole thing sold within, I assumed the first day because
Speaker 2: there were trackers on the car, they had the car
Speaker 2: identity immediately, so they tracked the car everywhere.
Speaker 1: Did that cause yeah, you lost a mate obviously, But
Speaker 1: did it cause any dramas? Like? I'm sure there was speculation.
Speaker 2: So much speculation, but I well, I was. I was
Speaker 2: arrested obviously. So I got onto the boys in Turkey
Speaker 2: it was still the hierarchy and toil them the situation
Speaker 2: and I saw heavy.
Speaker 1: Shit, goodboy putting it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it's heavy, heavy duty. But yeah, he was
Speaker 2: just hanging, hanging for a minute. So about six hours later,
Speaker 2: I get a phone call from an Asian guy says,
Speaker 2: put your hand up, which one of you. As I
Speaker 2: see this guy talking on my phone say yeah, he guys,
Speaker 2: you're coming with me? I said, I'm a where beaus.
Speaker 2: I've been told to take you to the airport and
Speaker 2: get you out of the country. Right, Yeah, I'm not
Speaker 2: going anywhere because then I've been specifically told you have
Speaker 2: to go. I've done nothing. My mate's missing, I'm a
Speaker 2: fucking bailing mate. Can you imagine the fun? Am I
Speaker 2: going to go? I'll wait for him to get back.
Speaker 2: We didn't know he was dead. We thought he might
Speaker 2: have been kidding. Actually thought he was downstairs and there
Speaker 2: was a basement. The day before i'd lost him, he
Speaker 2: was in the basement partying. I thought this whole time
Speaker 2: I was arrested, he was in the basement. Anyway, he wasn't, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: So I said, I'm not going to go stay, but
Speaker 2: you stay as well. I pay for you to stay
Speaker 2: until until it's resolved. So I've booked a couple of
Speaker 2: rooms because the police would let me go to the
Speaker 2: hotel across the road for the night. But I was
Speaker 2: in PlayStation all d every day. And then we waited
Speaker 2: for I think it was four or five days, and
Speaker 2: then they announced that he was past and then I left.
Speaker 2: But that you weren't testing before I went.
Speaker 1: Right five days? Did you? Sweet Well, I don't know
Speaker 1: if you've been to Thailand. Now it's over there, they've
Speaker 1: got all the exchange with the drugs, the grass, cannabis
Speaker 1: and all that. They've set up cannabis stores right beside
Speaker 1: police stations. I heard they were doing the backflip again,
Speaker 1: but earlier on this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard the same And I was in Thailand
Speaker 2: recently and I was in a bar and a guy
Speaker 2: came up to me started talking to me like he
Speaker 2: was x C I A. He'd retired to Thailand because
Speaker 2: he had something with his brain, a tumor in his brain.
Speaker 2: And the end there's a drug that could only get
Speaker 2: from Thailand. So he'd moved to Thailand and he was
Speaker 2: for medicate with just little purposes. He was on CBD.
Speaker 2: Well ye, yeah, and this drug and has kept him
Speaker 2: alive and is fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, years ago, it would have been a completely different
Speaker 1: different situation. Twenty years not good. We've had a couple
Speaker 1: of people here that have done some time in Thai
Speaker 1: prisons and yeah, heavy, heavy scene. All right. Now you've
Speaker 1: moved from Jubai. You've gone the grease. I think from
Speaker 1: my reading between the book, you just want a little
Speaker 1: bit more freedom than you had in Jubai. You've moved
Speaker 1: to over the Greece.
Speaker 2: Look to Bai was good, it was good for a minute.
Speaker 2: You don't. I mean, it's it's funny enough. I mean
Speaker 2: for an Islamic country, there's a freedom there you have
Speaker 2: that you don't have in Australia, but you have to
Speaker 2: behave you cannot be offensive. So for young children, to
Speaker 2: bring up young children in that environment, it's brilliant. There's
Speaker 2: no offensive behavior on television, on the internet, in the street,
Speaker 2: no one cuddling and kissing. So the kids are just kids.
Speaker 2: They're left alone to be children and grow into adults.
Speaker 2: So for that it was amazing. But you know, as
Speaker 2: an adult, we like to play up a little bit
Speaker 2: and you get a bit boring. So I migrated to
Speaker 2: Greece where it's another form of freedom again and you know.
Speaker 1: A bit looser.
Speaker 2: That's a lot of fun. Bro I highly recommend it
Speaker 2: categories there.
Speaker 1: It's good.
Speaker 2: It's very beautiful country. The beaches are amazing, the food's great.
Speaker 2: That people are really good and they don't text you
Speaker 2: too much, like yeah, Lebanon, the what the fucking lot
Speaker 2: in Greece? I just want to clip.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're there, what you're still doing your consultancy?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I was doing a few things here and there.
Speaker 2: The things were drying out because the mining broom had ended.
Speaker 1: You went looking for a sunken treasure.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, black pearl. Fuck me. I was getting
Speaker 2: ready to buy the penthouse at the Birch Calipher and
Speaker 2: turned one room into a vault.
Speaker 1: I like the story, like everyone once in their lifetime
Speaker 1: should start looking for some So they found.
Speaker 2: The treasure is there? Yeah, there's no doubt about the
Speaker 2: gold being there. It's actually there. It's sixty meters below water,
Speaker 2: about thirty kilometers offshore in Ireland. It's fucking there. All
Speaker 2: the documentations there. The ship's on its side. It's hard
Speaker 2: to locate. They got a mob out of America that
Speaker 2: had a laser that would cut the ship up because
Speaker 2: it was very difficult to enter it. And they spent
Speaker 2: about a million bucks. And I did all the I
Speaker 2: started preparing for moving the gold off the ship with
Speaker 2: helicopters and I'm flying them to Dubai.
Speaker 1: You've got some special forces dudes.
Speaker 2: And we all special courses because it's the that sea.
Speaker 2: If a helicopter goes down and have your special course.
Speaker 2: We all did the fucking course. We had some Navy
Speaker 2: seals sitting in Denmark. I think it was for two
Speaker 2: weeks waiting to board this ship. The ship was here,
Speaker 2: but the last million dollars didn't come through. Whole thing
Speaker 2: fell over in the last minute. Yeah, I could be
Speaker 2: fucking loaded right now.
Speaker 1: Oh well, at least you're gone, gone for your dreams. Okay,
Speaker 1: the day of the sorry the rain, and then you
Speaker 1: could you could have been this. Now I'm going to
Speaker 1: take you to the car cardboard deep. Okay, let's let's
Speaker 1: go there. Tell us about that day. That morning, it's usual,
Speaker 1: just another day.
Speaker 2: Got up the kids, get the kids up ready for school.
Speaker 2: We had a routine.
Speaker 1: You were raising the kids on your own, paid the.
Speaker 2: Kids for myself increase. I loved it like they had
Speaker 2: a full time living, a person that would keep the
Speaker 2: house clean and cook the food and if I needed
Speaker 2: to except for ten minutes, there was someone there, right
Speaker 2: So it was great. And they had the tutors and
Speaker 2: they do went to a really good English speaking private
Speaker 2: school which wasn't expensive. They had lunch together. The kids
Speaker 2: were a community. The whole school was a community. It's
Speaker 2: unlike here, broke like the kids all socialized with each other.
Speaker 2: There was no bullying. Now that when my kids finally
Speaker 2: came back to Australia, they were shocked. They didn't have
Speaker 2: to deal. But now they were loving life there. We
Speaker 2: just had such a good time, but I dropped the ball.
Speaker 2: I forgot who I was.
Speaker 1: Okay, forgot to pissed off you were You were mister
Speaker 1: dead Day, just a full time, enjoying life.
Speaker 2: I was followed for three days. I didn't even notice.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine I walk into the room and I
Speaker 2: check all the exits, look for weapons, have a lot
Speaker 2: quick look around and say, he is there. I stopped
Speaker 2: doing all that. I was just cleaning up after the kids,
Speaker 2: taking them to activities.
Speaker 1: All right, I've got a sense of it.
Speaker 2: You.
Speaker 1: I thought you were a tough guy, but you turned
Speaker 1: in the midst of mum at this stage. And it's
Speaker 1: interesting because, yeah, you've lived a life that you've got
Speaker 1: to be aware of everything. You've got to be alert,
Speaker 1: you've got to be vigilant. A lot of people come
Speaker 1: unstuck when they do drop their guard. Yeah, but not
Speaker 1: not in the form of getting blown up in a
Speaker 1: car bomb. But you can continue on.
Speaker 2: So you know, I dropped the kids to school and
Speaker 2: I went to the gym. So I assume I don't know,
Speaker 2: because it's never been confirmed that they probably just put
Speaker 2: an explosive under the behind the wheel. Because I was parked.
Speaker 2: It was like a paddock. It was off the street
Speaker 2: and anyone could stop beside me. Just got out and
Speaker 2: rolled a little bit of an explosive and waiting for
Speaker 2: me and activated remotely, which was the police did say
Speaker 2: it was activaated.
Speaker 1: Remotely because you were traveling with the kids in the
Speaker 1: car earlier on, Well, it was, yeah.
Speaker 2: I dropped the school. When I got to the school,
Speaker 2: I heard a fucking horrendous screech coming from in front
Speaker 2: of the steering wheel. So I turned the car quickly
Speaker 2: and panicked a little bit, thinking, with the fuck, I've
Speaker 2: never heard that sound. I'm not suggesting the bomb was there,
Speaker 2: but it was just I'm just telling what actually happened
Speaker 2: that morning. It doesn't make it so logical to think
Speaker 2: that they would make that sound, But I heard that sound,
Speaker 2: and maybe they did put it there prior to that day.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but that car park was empty and
Speaker 2: it would have been a good spot because there's no
Speaker 2: other casualties. So I got the kids out quickly, waited
Speaker 2: for a second, took them into their class, started a car,
Speaker 2: no issue, and I went forget about it.
Speaker 1: Went to the gym and then you come out.
Speaker 2: I come out of the gym walked to my car,
Speaker 2: opened the door, jump in, Both legs are in the
Speaker 2: car and the door still open, and the bomb goes off.
Speaker 2: So when the bomb went off, the air bag went
Speaker 2: off and pushed my head back into the seat. I
Speaker 2: didn't get knocked out, so I knew straight away it
Speaker 2: was an explosion.
Speaker 1: It had an and you still had the door open.
Speaker 1: The probably why a you're here talking.
Speaker 2: I'd say so.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the two things. Mercedes they designed a lot of
Speaker 2: cars up but particularly Mercedes that if you have a
Speaker 2: car accident, they head on car accident on impact. It's
Speaker 2: designed so the engine doesn't fly into you, that the
Speaker 2: energy is dispelled around you. So this came from underneath
Speaker 2: where the engine was. The door was opened, so there
Speaker 2: the pedals break my feet apart from that and it's
Speaker 2: a bit of fire, a bit of burning, nothing to
Speaker 2: break about.
Speaker 1: All right, tough guy, serious, but yeah, there was significant
Speaker 1: damage done to your ankle. Which which one was it? You?
Speaker 2: It's not traumatizing damage. Could have been a car accident, yeah,
Speaker 2: could have come off a blake a horse, yeah, couple
Speaker 2: of horses and make their neck.
Speaker 1: So you've got out the way the way you described that,
Speaker 1: you're worried about a shooter finishing you off, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, if someone's trying to take you out, then
Speaker 1: you're still alive. The treatment that you got, that you
Speaker 1: had thought that you're going to lose your foot.
Speaker 2: Well what happened was this is all going in real
Speaker 2: time for me. I looked down when I know, when
Speaker 2: I realized my leg was so damaged. I thought straight away,
Speaker 2: let's cut that off. Get one of those bionic feet
Speaker 2: like I see. You see pictures of these soldiers with
Speaker 2: the byonic foot back in his kit back at wall.
Speaker 2: I'll have one of them. I'll be back at it,
Speaker 2: and let's get on with it. Let's get these guns,
Speaker 2: all right, That's all I was thinking about, I mean,
Speaker 2: apart from the could be a shooter. But anyway, then
Speaker 2: when I get to the hospital and the surgeon he
Speaker 2: sort of he did the first surgeon, but it was
Speaker 2: more of like a patch up, but didn't ever bandage it.
Speaker 2: Probably I was still dripping and bleeding everywhere, but it
Speaker 2: was a really good surgeon came in and said, oh,
Speaker 2: you're going to lose your foot. And when he said
Speaker 2: it didn't sound didn't see it right. I said, what
Speaker 2: do you mean? Because now I said, well, we're gon
Speaker 2: my fucking footbro, I it's still there's just take it
Speaker 2: back up, all right, A couple of stitches. Do what
Speaker 2: you got to do. Because now and I look around you,
Speaker 2: this hospital is at more than one hundred years old.
Speaker 2: You're going to get an infection. I said, how are
Speaker 2: we going to improve that? I'm going to a private
Speaker 2: hospital for a start. I'm out of here. And he
Speaker 2: also told me about another product you get from Germany.
Speaker 2: It's a it's a bandage that helps prevent infection. So
Speaker 2: I got that thrown over from Germany. But when he
Speaker 2: heard I was going to a private hospital, he said, oh,
Speaker 2: I need to do a more surgery. Can you go tomorrow?
Speaker 2: I said, okay, So that the following morning, he did
Speaker 2: a really good job. He's straightened the leg up, put
Speaker 2: it all back together. Bandiship properly said. When I got
Speaker 2: to the private hospital, because his name's on it, I was,
Speaker 2: I was on point, bro. So he did a really
Speaker 2: good job. I forget his name. Wish I had known
Speaker 2: his name because he was such a good fucking surgeon.
Speaker 2: I should have actually chased that up on a bit slack.
Speaker 2: So I get to the other hospital and they did
Speaker 2: this other surgery, put on a fixator and the leg's
Speaker 2: looking good. Right. They said, no, we've saved that. You
Speaker 2: don't need any more surgeries.
Speaker 1: You're good feeling.
Speaker 2: I said, I'm good, Yes, you're good. He said can
Speaker 2: we talk about money? I said sure. I said what
Speaker 2: do you need? He goes, oh, can you give us cash? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: How much do you want to get? Ten or fifteen?
Speaker 2: I said, Jay, given fifteen. It's last surgery. He goes,
Speaker 2: last surgery, but that's it. Yes, give fifteen euros. Came
Speaker 2: fifteen thousand euros. And there's this other lady hanging around
Speaker 2: the background. He's telling her to fuck off. She's admined
Speaker 2: for the hospital.
Speaker 1: They want their boy too.
Speaker 2: I had no idea they wanted thirty shit, so we
Speaker 2: paid them. They're thirty right, And then later that puts
Speaker 2: you out the thesis. She's come in starts arguing with me,
Speaker 2: no one's paid her. She's the most important one. Surgeries
Speaker 2: every fucking second day, mate so much And I said, look,
Speaker 2: don't worry, I'll pay you directly five hundred euros each time,
Speaker 2: which was nothing. So she was on the trip. Turns
Speaker 2: out and needed a lot more surgeries. Yeah, it cost
Speaker 2: me a fucking stack, but the initial surgery was.
Speaker 1: Good and you you got done a full use. But
Speaker 1: you you're getting around. I'm not noticing it as you
Speaker 1: came in.
Speaker 2: Good revenge, you know, revenge is sweet. Things work themselves out.
Speaker 2: We'll see how we go.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't say too much. I haven't. I haven't
Speaker 1: cautioned you. We're sitting here and I catch I just had.
Speaker 1: I just had to say revenge. It just came across
Speaker 1: my mind. But the trouble is, I suppose the lifestyle
Speaker 1: you live, there's a one hundred different people that it
Speaker 1: could be.
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, this is the strange thing. I'm
Speaker 2: entrenched in the underworld. I fucking know a lot of people.
Speaker 2: No one knows who did it, and I didn't die,
Speaker 2: so maybe it was just a warning.
Speaker 1: Well, I've known a lot of people that live the
Speaker 1: lifestyle you do, and it's a dangerous lifestyle. And quite
Speaker 1: often I said, it's not the other baddies that's going
Speaker 1: to get you killed. We know what's going to You've
Speaker 1: climbed over the wrong fence, and.
Speaker 2: Mate, you just don't know because there if it was
Speaker 2: anyone in my world they'd be bragging about it, and
Speaker 2: that wouldn't let it. I mean, I've been here for
Speaker 2: five years. No one's had another crack, so.
Speaker 1: Well, that's that's true. If they've had had a go
Speaker 1: at you and the thought that you might find out
Speaker 1: they came back it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people I know don't fuck around. So I don't know.
Speaker 1: All right the book. You told me that, and it
Speaker 1: doesn't fit with your tough guy image. But I think
Speaker 1: it's quite funny that you were writing the book before
Speaker 1: you got the kids breakfast and took it to school.
Speaker 1: That's when you're writing the book. The consultants.
Speaker 2: That's my quiet time. Yeah, five or six in the
Speaker 2: morning till seven, seven thirty. I had some quiet time,
Speaker 2: so i'd bang it out on the computer. A couple
Speaker 2: of cups of coffee enough.
Speaker 1: I went, how'd you find the experience writing it?
Speaker 2: No, it's good. I mean it's really good. I didn't
Speaker 2: there's a lot more stories.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you just scratched the surface.
Speaker 2: But there was enough content there. Everyone's happy with it.
Speaker 1: What what gave you the inspiration to write a book?
Speaker 2: Greg Roberts.
Speaker 1: I was wondering whether that would the case.
Speaker 2: So when he flew straight to Spain to Greece. He
Speaker 2: spent it was looking for him for two days before
Speaker 2: he found.
Speaker 1: Me after the bomb.
Speaker 2: This is the kind of guy is finally found me
Speaker 2: and were sitting there. He is gone, you gotta watch
Speaker 2: these fucking reporters by they're going to write a book
Speaker 2: that they have done. Let me register your names and
Speaker 2: no one else can write it. Then he goes, why
Speaker 2: don't you write a book? Good turn into something? I mean, seriously,
Speaker 2: what are you going to do next to you? Sit
Speaker 2: on your ass? So I did. I mean, I'm confident
Speaker 2: in a lot of areas, but you know I'm not
Speaker 2: that articulate. But we managed to do something that's mildly entertaining.
Speaker 1: Well, it's a good broad and I wouldn't give it
Speaker 1: a plug if I didn't didn't enjoy it. But I
Speaker 1: said it to you before. I found it interesting, and
Speaker 1: I got to say it's raw in a way that
Speaker 1: sometimes don't see with true crime books, in that it
Speaker 1: seems like, okay, I get a sense of who you were.
Speaker 1: When I read read the book, I could pretty much go, okay,
Speaker 1: I know this this person.
Speaker 2: I tried to get. We had a ghostraighter so I'd
Speaker 2: write it and not expect him to rewrite it and
Speaker 2: make it give you some substance. And he say no,
Speaker 2: but it's got to stay in your voice. So he
Speaker 2: just did a spell check effectively, so it's all in
Speaker 2: my voice. And you know, I really enjoyed the process.
Speaker 1: I think that makes it authentic when it's I can
Speaker 1: imagine you saying exactly the way it comes. I know
Speaker 1: when I did my first book, the main thing was
Speaker 1: it's got a sound like me life advice. You're still here,
Speaker 1: which is a miracle in itself. How do you look
Speaker 1: back at your life?
Speaker 2: I have no regrets. I regret nothing. I don't regret
Speaker 2: the ten years jail. It's an experience, like you know,
Speaker 2: I've been here for sixty ten, was incarcerated, met some
Speaker 2: interesting people, did some push ups, read a book, and
Speaker 2: went home, Like you know, seriously.
Speaker 1: Okay, can I I'd like that quote? What did ten years?
Speaker 1: Did some push ups? Read a book and went home?
Speaker 2: Basically?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: I mean, like you know, it all builds your character.
Speaker 2: When you live in or you get nothing and you
Speaker 2: have to fight to get what you get, and then
Speaker 2: you have to really fight to keep it and you
Speaker 2: might have to stab one or two, or at the
Speaker 2: risk of getting stabbed. In iron Bart daily Bill's character,
Speaker 2: you either crumble ory.
Speaker 1: Step up, okay, at the risk of pissing people off.
Speaker 1: Now the criminal world, now, do you think it's easy
Speaker 1: to be a criminal now than what it was in
Speaker 1: your day?
Speaker 2: Or not at all? I mean, they heard us, they
Speaker 2: have all the technology. The code is not what it
Speaker 2: used to be ethically, like we knew growing up, or
Speaker 2: coughed and told you tell them you don't talk to police.
Speaker 2: You just don't. You just knew that it's just no comment,
Speaker 2: only because not because you weren't telling on people, but
Speaker 2: because they fucking w you. So if you get picked up,
Speaker 2: you just don't make it. No comments table.
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought of it that way, Jay, but I
Speaker 1: was going to agree with you on the fact that
Speaker 1: I know my early days in policing, like I started
Speaker 1: in the eighties, so that's when when I was there
Speaker 1: old school, it was yeah if And I said to
Speaker 1: you when you came in here and sat down, I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: funny in an interview room and I wouldn't even bother
Speaker 1: speaking to you. And you said, you tell me to
Speaker 1: get fucked, And I think that's much that's pretty much
Speaker 1: how how how would have played out. But it has
Speaker 1: changed now and I think policing has got its still
Speaker 1: from a police point of view, it's a tough job,
Speaker 1: but they've got advantages now with all the technology.
Speaker 2: Technolo, DNA technology. But look that the policing has evolved,
Speaker 2: but so are the criminals. Like these guys, you have
Speaker 2: to be really sharp to kick on and just stay successful.
Speaker 2: You have to be really really sharp, and you have
Speaker 2: to be really really willing and have all the technologies
Speaker 2: that they have that they can afford and just stay
Speaker 2: ahead of the game. Some some can and some can't.
Speaker 1: But it's always changing. And we Yea talked about a
Speaker 1: norm the telephone next.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine that? That was like, thank fuck, I
Speaker 2: didn't have one.
Speaker 1: I got to say, I was out of the cops
Speaker 1: when it happened. But when it happened, I thought, what
Speaker 1: a brilliant plan from the cops point of view, And.
Speaker 2: It's a brilliant plan, but I mean, you just don't
Speaker 2: know if it's going to stick really, because.
Speaker 1: I know they're fighting fighting, so they should.
Speaker 2: It's like it's a you're behind a wall, how can
Speaker 2: identify that person to that to that to that device. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you could have the wrong person.
Speaker 1: Well technology, i'd yeah, old school days of sitting there
Speaker 1: and yeah, thinking no one's watching you or listening. It's
Speaker 1: watching everything change. Well, you walk out in the street,
Speaker 1: they can pretty well.
Speaker 2: These things here, they can activate and listen to us.
Speaker 2: They can be doing the wrong podcast while you're doing
Speaker 2: a podcast. Well, if you're doing your podcast, you should
Speaker 2: release it first.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think you know my history. But
Speaker 1: this thing is a thing that got me out of
Speaker 1: the cops because I recorded a conversation on the phone.
Speaker 2: You said that.
Speaker 1: But anyway, that's say technology and me never never go down.
Speaker 2: Well, it's going to be tough to be a crook
Speaker 2: in this day and age.
Speaker 1: I think so. I genuinely think so. And I think
Speaker 1: it's a hard world to go down. If you want it,
Speaker 1: you can go in for the excitement and all that.
Speaker 1: But you've accepted. You accepted, Okay, I did ten years.
Speaker 1: A lot of people that would break them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that weekends. Look, the thing, let me tell
Speaker 2: you is something about Australia. It's the land of opportunity.
Speaker 2: You can do very well here, a little bit driven,
Speaker 2: a little bit creative, and work hard. So many people
Speaker 2: are successful just from that. Just I don't need to
Speaker 2: break the law. You don't need to worry about getting rated.
Speaker 2: There are opportunities everywhere, just find them.
Speaker 1: Jay, one thing and you've seen done a lot. I
Speaker 1: get the sense that I called your hard ass at
Speaker 1: the start. Is there anything that you fear.
Speaker 2: Anything or anyone, because there's a lot of hectic people
Speaker 2: out there.
Speaker 1: Well, you give us both like it.
Speaker 2: Well, there's no one in particular, but like I, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't think I've got any enemies, so she don't
Speaker 2: have any fear. But there's definitely a lot of formidable
Speaker 2: characters out there. There's no shortage of very willing, hectic
Speaker 2: people that will fucking kill you.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you give that, give that respect absolutely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't go around poking the bear. Bro.
Speaker 1: What about your mom, I reckon.
Speaker 2: She unfortunately said that she's passed me. I definitely feed her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah, I reckon. She would have to be
Speaker 1: to keep you a lot in line.
Speaker 2: I tell when we're in court, the policeman, like I
Speaker 2: got arrested, that two guns out on me and they've
Speaker 2: got me on the ground, and I'll just I would
Speaker 2: describe it in court. My mom jumped up and started
Speaker 2: abusing me, said, all the trouble you've been in, all
Speaker 2: the fights you've had, and you let this mamp put
Speaker 2: you on the ground in front of him.
Speaker 1: Oh, you're weak, prick.
Speaker 2: Very much.
Speaker 1: Yeah that says Yeah, that says a lot about your mom. Well,
Speaker 1: I think we'll finish up on that. But look, I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed the chat, and i'd like how you've been upfront,
Speaker 1: and I predicted it before before you came on, and
Speaker 1: when we had the chat, I didn't think there'd be
Speaker 1: any bullshit or dressing it up. You are who you are.
Speaker 1: I respect people that live by a moral cod even
Speaker 1: if I don't agree with the cod. One thing I
Speaker 1: don't like, Jay, and I think you would tested this too,
Speaker 1: is hypocrites. I hate people pretending to be something that
Speaker 1: they're not. And you've raised a couple of times tough
Speaker 1: guys that are not really tough cops are not biding
Speaker 1: by the law, they're breaking the law.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So that's sort of the way I look at things.
Speaker 1: And you are who you are and you stand by it,
Speaker 1: no regrets. That's what it is. All right, Well, stay
Speaker 1: alive and enjoy life.
Speaker 2: To our best cheers. Thank you.
Speaker 1: You want to know what it's like sitting down speaking
Speaker 1: to a real hard ass, Well, I think you found
Speaker 1: that out. There's something I like about a person that
Speaker 1: lives by a moral code. It might be a moral
Speaker 1: code that I don't necessarily agree with, but I respect
Speaker 1: someone that's true to himself. And what I find with
Speaker 1: Jay is that he owns what he's done. I was
Speaker 1: worried the fact that he was dealing in heroin, but
Speaker 1: we addressed that during the talk that he now appreciates
Speaker 1: the dramas that can cause to a lot of people.
Speaker 1: He doesn't take it back to step. He's a tough guy,
Speaker 1: let's face it. But he gave us a really interesting
Speaker 1: insight into the world that he inhabited, and that's where
Speaker 1: I wanted to take the listeners, and Jay certainly did
Speaker 1: that with us today.