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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective see aside of life the average person is never

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Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys, said,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talked to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of my chat with j Malcohn,

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Speaker 1: a former heroin trafficker, a Biki, an underworld fixer, and

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Speaker 1: the family man. If you listen to part one, we

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Speaker 1: found out a bit about Jay's crazy life, how we

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Speaker 1: build a business, did ten years in prison sentence that

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Speaker 1: he believes made him come out a better person. Now

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about his life post prison. J Malcohn,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to I catch Killers.

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Speaker 2: Thanks.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So in part one we're talking that you got

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Speaker 1: out of prison and you felt twelve foot tall. You

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Speaker 1: had a fortunate situation where eight hundred and eighty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars was going to one eight one hundred eighty. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't be here still spending it. And also you

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Speaker 1: became a promator for an opera singer and all sorts

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Speaker 1: of things. I'm looking at your life there, and I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at your life through what I was reading your book,

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Speaker 1: The Consultant, which is a great, great read. Recommend it

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Speaker 1: to anyone that wants to get a real understanding of

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Speaker 1: the world we're talking about now. But I didn't pick

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Speaker 1: you at that point in time. There was an independence

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Speaker 1: about you. I didn't pick you the type of guy

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Speaker 1: to go into an OMCG. To me, like, I see

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Speaker 1: the pathway the people going into OMCG, and yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: they're kicking around there at a bit of a loose end,

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Speaker 1: and they want to feel part of a brotherhood, which

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you got. But what attracted you to it.

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Speaker 2: I would never thought myself in the club. I mean,

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Speaker 2: when we were grown up, the bikers were old school

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Speaker 2: bikies and this is something I was not attracted to.

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Speaker 2: But a friend of mine started the club in Melbourne

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Speaker 2: and they're going to fly the flag. But they had

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Speaker 2: issues now and then, and you would often call me

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Speaker 2: to help resolve some issues. And I met, I met

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Speaker 2: the guys, the hierarchies, and they were I was instantly

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Speaker 2: attracted to them. It was something I notice I'm not

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Speaker 2: seen for a long time.

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Speaker 1: You said you met with the upper leaders.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the leaders and champion blokes like proper, proper, and

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Speaker 2: they were united. They were a brotherhood and they all

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Speaker 2: they all ran the ball. There was no there was

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Speaker 2: no shyness amongst any of them, and they had so

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Speaker 2: much respect for each other. It was like, it's the

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Speaker 2: way it should be. I don't know how it is

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Speaker 2: in other clubs, but in this particular club. This is

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Speaker 2: why they grew so strong so quick as they were

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Speaker 2: united and they were capable and they were fucking willing.

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Speaker 2: But you know, in this environment bike world, you know

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Speaker 2: there's always going to be a degree of violence and

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Speaker 2: you know, so these guys handle it. And so things

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Speaker 2: were happening in Melbourne.

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Speaker 1: So you on that. And we don't need the name names,

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Speaker 1: but a couple of things. I understand the language, but

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Speaker 1: run the ball. These were people that would step up

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Speaker 1: if they needed to step up, and that's something that

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Speaker 1: you respected.

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Speaker 2: They would step up instantly, like there's no shyness, there's

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Speaker 2: no let's talk about this, let's see how we're going

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Speaker 2: to go, going to go this week, and there's like

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Speaker 2: fuck that, let's go and you know they're but they

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Speaker 2: were all like that. When I say all the ones

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Speaker 2: that i'd met are very cool individuals, it's very hard

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Speaker 2: to resist that. I mean, I just I was incarcerated

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Speaker 2: for ten years. I mean all sorts. Yeah, individual you know,

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Speaker 2: individuals that was equally is hectic.

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Speaker 1: And being attracted to that, I think it would be

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Speaker 1: fair to say. And I don't think ego is necessarily

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Speaker 1: a bad thing, but it would be striking your ego

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Speaker 1: being part of a group or so.

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Speaker 2: These guys are monsters in the industry, These are these

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Speaker 2: are the alphas.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, getting back to what it attracts you, and

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Speaker 1: I think if people are on us, there is an

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Speaker 1: ego because the alpha mile you're part of a gang,

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Speaker 1: a very big game. You walk somewhere, you're part of

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Speaker 1: the gang. You give them respect, whether it's in a

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Speaker 1: club or wherever you're going.

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Speaker 2: But having said that, so to catch up your independence. Still,

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Speaker 2: if you have a problem, they expect you to sort

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Speaker 2: your own problem out. You can all rally together like

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Speaker 2: a football team. So let's go and get them. Okay,

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Speaker 2: you got a problem, sort that, mate. You know, if

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Speaker 2: you can't sort that, why are you part of us?

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Speaker 2: Because we can sort of our shit out.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: They weren't there to lend a hand and help you

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Speaker 2: step up and do your ship. You sort your own

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Speaker 2: fucking shit out, all right.

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Speaker 1: Now. They were looking at or they had a chapter

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Speaker 1: set up down in Albourn, and that's what you went to. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: you didn't. You didn't go as a normal.

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Speaker 2: So I met the guys a couple of times. They

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Speaker 2: really liked me. They knew about me, they'd heard a

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Speaker 2: few things. I did the due diligence, and they offered

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Speaker 2: me a role. And it was hard to resist when

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Speaker 2: you got I had so much respect for these guys, yeah,

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Speaker 2: for their achievements and what they're capable of. Asking you

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Speaker 2: to jump on, and I was like, sure, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: It would be a stressful role trying to manage, manage,

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Speaker 1: or lead a outlaw motorcycle gang. In that there were Wow, guys,

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Speaker 1: you're going to have to keep them in line. So

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Speaker 1: when I say stressful, there'd be a lot of work

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Speaker 1: that you've got to do to keep them in line.

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Speaker 2: I see, I took a page out of mctoomb's book. Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we end up with three chapters, nearly four and a

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Speaker 2: lot of members, and I made all the decisions. But

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Speaker 2: I didn't allow them to make decisions. Now the president's

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Speaker 2: no one. So we'd have our weeklies. I'd chair all

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Speaker 2: the meetings and we you know, we'd all out and

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Speaker 2: I'll let them have a pretend vote and to just

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Speaker 2: tell them how it's going to be. Okay, problem with

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Speaker 2: both clubs, and when you're dealing with multiples, not all

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Speaker 2: of them are sensible. Most of them just want to

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Speaker 2: have fun. And I'll do sort of things like vote

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Speaker 2: to have our national run at the clubhouse until ten.

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Speaker 2: Then all go to the strippers. Three hundred members.

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Speaker 1: That's going to which what happened?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no consideration of you know, what can the possiblity

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Speaker 2: be who's going to get arrested? You know who's going

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Speaker 2: to be He's going to get fucking hurt.

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Speaker 1: Well, if they do that, it's inevitable that ship's going

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Speaker 1: to go down. And yeah, so they had that.

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Speaker 2: In my absence and that's what they voted, So clearly

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Speaker 2: I sort of that out. But this is why I ran.

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Speaker 2: I made all the decisions made.

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Speaker 1: Okay, did they fall in the line.

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Speaker 2: It was an optional. You have to lead with aggression

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Speaker 2: otherwise you're not going to be respected. I'll let you

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Speaker 2: know that. If there's a crack or a weakness, somebody

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Speaker 2: will have a crack. So you know, you just got

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Speaker 2: to stay on top of all that. You have to

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Speaker 2: be feared. I mean, look, there's one there's a few

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Speaker 2: members in a few clubs that are the alphas, and

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Speaker 2: that's because they're fucking feared for good reason, you know

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Speaker 2: how it is?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think and it's personally. I love hearing this

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Speaker 1: because I know that is that is the world, and

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Speaker 1: quite often people don't speak so openly. So yeah, that

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Speaker 1: is the world that I understood that the way it operated.

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Speaker 1: So you enjoyed the role.

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Speaker 2: I enjoyed it for a minute. It was good when

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Speaker 2: we was small, and then we grew and it became

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Speaker 2: you know, still manageable, but it becameted becoming hard work.

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Speaker 2: Like you said, the more you have to people you

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Speaker 2: have to manage, the more issues that and plus like

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Speaker 2: you know, I had members that were just below me,

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Speaker 2: that were younger and ambitious, and it was time for

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Speaker 2: them to step up. They wanted to step up, and it.

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Speaker 1: Was it was actually their time succession plan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, so I'd planned my own time for six months,

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Speaker 2: so it wasn't something I just decided to do. And

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Speaker 2: I had discussed that with the high rarch if over

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Speaker 2: a six month period, and the person that was going

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Speaker 2: to take over, he was keen to take over, you know,

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Speaker 2: he was the man for the job.

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Speaker 1: A couple of things, and I'm not delving into the

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Speaker 1: biky world, but you made a point there that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: as it got bigger, it got harder to manage because

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Speaker 1: you're bringing people in, i know, with clubs. And this

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Speaker 1: is just my observation from where I was sitting on

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Speaker 1: the on the other side that when there was recruitment

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Speaker 1: and they bought a lot of people in, there was

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Speaker 1: more problems because they were bringing dickheads in and all

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Speaker 1: sorts of things. I'm not talking con I'm talking talking general,

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Speaker 1: but when there's an expansion and they're not vetting people.

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Speaker 1: That's where you see people come unstuck.

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Speaker 2: We also get the ones that want hard in a

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Speaker 2: club because they're up to the near various activities. Yeah

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Speaker 2: you know, whatever they're doing, so they need a bit

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Speaker 2: of protection. They come on as good blokes and they're

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Speaker 2: just using the club for protection. So it's hard to wear.

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Speaker 2: You've got to be through all that shit, and it

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Speaker 2: does happen. They get through, and it's easy to be

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Speaker 2: a good bloke for a short period of time. Convince

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Speaker 2: someone that you're all that Ye sneak through the cracks.

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Speaker 1: Oh well yeah, in any walk of life. And I

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Speaker 1: found that interesting that your book talking about the world

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Speaker 1: in bikings, but it's corporate world. There's a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: That's a police organization. There's a whole thing, a whole lot,

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Speaker 1: and some of the stuff you could almost do a

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Speaker 1: leadership talk. And it's a strange form of leadership leading

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Speaker 1: an outlaw motorcycle gang. But there were issues that arise

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Speaker 1: in in any organization.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, just jal with personalities, aren't you really Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he goes personalities and then the people undermining and

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Speaker 1: I saw where you've had people undermining.

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Speaker 2: You, Oh they have a crack. You've got to deal

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Speaker 2: with it.

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Speaker 1: Most definitely. I think if you don't deal with people

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Speaker 1: undermining and I'm not talking just Bikis here, I'm talking

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Speaker 1: in any organization. In my own experience in the cops,

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Speaker 1: I underestimated people that were undermining me. I thinking they're

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Speaker 1: just useless, lazy pricks that I don't really care about.

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Speaker 1: But when they spend their whole time trying to fuck you, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they can do some damage, saying one rotten apple spoils

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Speaker 1: a great very much so, very much so. Now leaving

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Speaker 1: you had a succession plan six months. You know, the

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Speaker 1: fied people's perception is that you join, you can never leave.

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Speaker 2: A lot of clubs are like that, they own you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, like in my experience, there's just such cool individuals.

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Speaker 2: They the hierarchy, the ones that are gravitated towards you know,

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Speaker 2: they're in the club, they have their life outside the club.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to put your finger on it. Coming from

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Speaker 2: my background. For you, you probably wouldn't appreciate it. For

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Speaker 2: my background, violence, incarceration, drugs. Seeing these guys in the

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Speaker 2: way they held themselves and carried themselves in their willingness,

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Speaker 2: and the brotherhood was like, fuck, give me some of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and you want me, I'm down.

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Speaker 1: You brought in a bit of style to the fashion sense.

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Speaker 2: Well, I know they were fashionable. They were driving the

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Speaker 2: g wagons and the Lebiennis. You know, my car wasn't

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Speaker 2: that lumpy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So when did you join them? When did you

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Speaker 1: get out rough figures eleven to two thirteen. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: when you joined so in there for two years. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you've probably got the out at the right time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look when I left was it was still okay,

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Speaker 2: it was still okay. There were the state's run differently

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Speaker 2: in Victoria. I don't know how it's running here and

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Speaker 2: I still haven't got my head around it. But the

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Speaker 2: when the police of the police there and there, they

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Speaker 2: don't fuck around, bro, I mean they you know, they

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Speaker 2: do the job, do it effectively. You fuck up, we

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Speaker 2: catch you, We're going to put you in jail. We

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Speaker 2: don't catch you, We'll catch you eventually. I don't know

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Speaker 2: how it runs here, but they're not. The police aren't

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Speaker 2: scared in Melbourne. I'm not suggesting they're scared here.

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Speaker 1: I was just going to check it.

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Speaker 2: If you want to drive around with your colors, drive

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Speaker 2: an your colors. I mean, if you're gonna playup and

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Speaker 2: you're gonna wear your colors, you're putting a tag on

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Speaker 2: your back. Yeah, but listen by, clubs have misunderstood. For

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Speaker 2: the most part, bike is joined bike clubs to ride

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Speaker 2: bikes and enjoy the brotherhood. Honestly, you know you're going

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Speaker 2: to get a percentage that want to play up, and

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Speaker 2: you're going to get another smaller percentage that are huge

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Speaker 2: and successful playing up and they're hiring you know, some

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Speaker 2: hiding clubs, and some don't give a fuck about the club.

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Speaker 2: They're just they've inherited the club. But most bike is

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Speaker 2: just want to ride bikes. Man. I remember my all

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Speaker 2: my members, most of them worked at families and couldn't

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Speaker 2: afford too much time for the bike club.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, when when you were in

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Speaker 1: the bike club, like the game comes first, how did

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Speaker 1: you manage family? Did you have in a relationship? First?

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Speaker 2: Family? Camp first? Yeah, family, then work then gang. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if you didn't have your family support and didn't have

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Speaker 2: a job, you're not good to meet mate. If you

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Speaker 2: can't pay your duties, fuck off. Someone's going to pay

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Speaker 2: the rent, you know what I mean? Like, so family first,

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Speaker 2: if you didn't have stability and you weren't employed, you

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Speaker 2: were going to be a problem. That's how I perceived it.

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Speaker 2: So more my guys worked.

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Speaker 1: How do you and your reference it in the book

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Speaker 1: where we don't have to go in the specific details.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you're running a chapter, this is your turf.

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Speaker 1: Someone from a rival gang moves in too close? How

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Speaker 1: do you negotiating skills manager twice? How did you manage that?

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Speaker 2: You know, move on, bro.

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Speaker 1: You just said, excuse me, we're here.

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Speaker 2: Here's the thing. We were there first, and I knew

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Speaker 2: both presidents and they're both good blokes from different teams.

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Speaker 2: And the first one he didn't know what were there

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Speaker 2: because this is just when I first jumped on. And

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Speaker 2: like I said, the other three guys didn't do it.

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Speaker 2: They didn't fly the flag. So they had a clubhouse

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Speaker 2: next to a massage parlor.

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Speaker 1: That's not a good look.

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Speaker 2: No, it was more of a gage that they never attended,

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Speaker 2: They never wrote, never wore their colors, and no one

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Speaker 2: knew they existed. So this fellow opened up a clubhouse

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Speaker 2: literally two blocks down the road. So when I told

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Speaker 2: him we were here. He was surprised, but he respected

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Speaker 2: they were there first. So it's like you to move.

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Speaker 2: You've got to move, bro, And I said, let me

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Speaker 2: give me, give me an hour. I'll go get the president.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about it. This is when I first came

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Speaker 2: on as sergeant. So I went saw the press. You

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Speaker 2: lived around the corner. So this is a proper outlaw club,

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Speaker 2: not to be fucked with. You need to come and

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Speaker 2: talk to this guy and let's work it out. I'll

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Speaker 2: work it out. You need to be present. I said,

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Speaker 2: I'm taking my missus shopping to Cole's. Can you deal

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Speaker 2: with it?

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's yeah, this is the leader. There's no much

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Speaker 1: respect there.

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Speaker 2: So I went back and saw the other fellow. I said, listen,

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Speaker 2: I'll tell we're going to do it. Just up the

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Speaker 2: road there is Paul Malvin. There's plenty of fucking factories.

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Speaker 2: It's another suburb. I'll pay the bond, I'll take the

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Speaker 2: rent that you've paid already, and you can just go

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Speaker 2: up the road. And there was the agreement we made.

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Speaker 2: So I succeeded in taking the clubhouse off another club.

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Speaker 2: So when Dax came out to see this, count Mike president,

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Speaker 2: and he showed him the clubhouses. He wanted to make

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Speaker 2: me after I said, you guys, yeah good, But I said,

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Speaker 2: what do you think is just starting? You know you

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Speaker 2: you'll get on your feed. What do you mean.

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Speaker 1: It was hiding what you had done?

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Speaker 2: He didn't tell him. That's when I threw the towel

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Speaker 2: and I said, there's nothing me but you hang on,

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Speaker 2: Hang on a minute. That's what happened. Listens, Yeah, bro,

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Speaker 2: I didn't tell you. He said, no. He was fucking

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Speaker 2: thrilled that it happened, and he goes made us listen,

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to drop the colors off now. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to play this game because no, no, you stay.

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Speaker 2: He's got to go. So they tipped him. Okay, that's

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Speaker 2: how it became president, and rightly so, so he went

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Speaker 2: shopping the cols.

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Speaker 1: I look completely different world, but I know in the cops,

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Speaker 1: if running the job, I expect, what do you mean

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Speaker 1: you can't work this weekend? The job's on. We've got

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Speaker 1: to do it. So it happens. But no, you're giving

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Speaker 1: us an interesting insight. You got out of the gangs,

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Speaker 1: and then is that the period of time where you

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Speaker 1: wanted to distance yourself from everything here and you went

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Speaker 1: over and lived in Jubai.

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Speaker 2: I was working for a couple of mining companies. I

332
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Speaker 2: was making really good money.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about so tell us about that. Again, you

334
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Speaker 1: don't have to break it down specifics, but where there's

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Speaker 1: the money come from working for mining companies with a

336
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Speaker 1: person of your type of skills and.

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Speaker 2: Bad predominantly from well, I was protecting one particular guy.

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Speaker 2: But when you do mediations for them, like a partnership dissolves,

339
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Speaker 2: particularly on one partnership had dissolved, and I was dividing

340
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Speaker 2: everything up and there was one company that was worth

341
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Speaker 2: a lot of money still not arguing about it. And

342
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Speaker 2: I happened to be in London when this is all happening,

343
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Speaker 2: and I was off for the job of getting the

344
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Speaker 2: guys to drop off and let them deal with it

345
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Speaker 2: in court. And for that I was paid eight million

346
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,640
Speaker 2: shares or half of sixteen and eight me up is.

347
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,680
Speaker 2: The shares are worth probably five and a half million

348
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Speaker 2: bucks and other things, a lot of.

349
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Speaker 1: Cash whisper in the microphone. I can still a lot of.

350
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Speaker 2: Cash anyway, So I did the job, okay, took ten minutes,

351
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Speaker 2: and so that was your role.

352
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Speaker 1: In mediating, you're okay, well we could go to war

353
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Speaker 1: on this, or it could get ugly, or.

354
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Speaker 2: It's a lizard thing. People know me all right. So

355
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Speaker 2: the people I was dealing with already.

356
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Speaker 1: Knew you come with the reputation, Well I.

357
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Speaker 2: Already knew them. There was a degree of mutual respect

358
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Speaker 2: and understanding, and it was more let's sit down and

359
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Speaker 2: how we're going to work this out. We're not the enemies.

360
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Speaker 2: They are the enemies. We need to work this out

361
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Speaker 2: for them because they're fuck wits. They can't work it out,

362
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Speaker 2: and that's what we did. They got paid by their bloke,

363
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Speaker 2: they get paid by my bloke, and we worked it out. Unfortunately,

364
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,639
Speaker 2: after we worked it out, my moron, who is a drunk,

365
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,200
Speaker 2: started ringing them, saying, no, events couldn't help you.

366
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Speaker 1: Could They let's wave in a red flag.

367
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Speaker 2: But it took me another year, was up and down.

368
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Speaker 2: Cost him a stack. But it was okay for me, like.

369
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Speaker 1: Don't insult me.

370
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Speaker 2: Well, don it's not them. You know, they're serious people

371
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,600
Speaker 2: as well, like they were doing me a favor. We

372
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Speaker 2: worked it out as gentlemen. And it can go either way.

373
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Speaker 2: We can bang it on, they can bang it on.

374
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Speaker 1: Did you see this as then like a career path

375
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Speaker 1: something that we're you're making money and you said, you're

376
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Speaker 1: always looking for opportunities.

377
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Speaker 2: But I couldn't understand. I couldn't. I couldn't believe the

378
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,360
Speaker 2: amount of money that was involved. It was insane amounts

379
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,359
Speaker 2: of money. We did stupid shit for a lot less.

380
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,080
Speaker 2: So I latched onto this team and I hung on

381
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Speaker 2: to him for the next ten years. And it was great.

382
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Speaker 1: It was a great ride, and it took you around

383
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Speaker 1: the world, didn't it.

384
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Speaker 2: Often I'd be in the I'd be all over the world.

385
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,159
Speaker 2: He loved me. This guy. He had a lot of

386
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,280
Speaker 2: issues with people in the industry. So then they got

387
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:36,800
Speaker 2: to a stage where no one could commute. I was

388
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,879
Speaker 2: lawed to call him that to call me, and I

389
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 2: would decide whether I'm going to let you talk to

390
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Speaker 2: him or not. And it was really good.

391
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Speaker 1: So you would learn from someone on negotiating and seeing

392
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Speaker 1: that the business level at that well.

393
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Speaker 2: I had his partner. He preferred not to be mentioned.

394
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Speaker 2: He's a very good friend of Minia has been. I'll

395
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Speaker 2: go old to this guy, and he gave me a

396
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Speaker 2: lot of direction, and you know, I have to be

397
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 2: honest A lot of times he'd be telling me, rattling

398
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,119
Speaker 2: off stocks and amounts and there's nude. Wouldn't fucking listen.

399
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,679
Speaker 2: I wasn't paying attention. Clearly, it wasn't paying it because I'm

400
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 2: missing on a lot of opportunities. But so he guided

401
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 2: me a lot of the way. And that first job,

402
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,560
Speaker 2: he mediated the he negotiated the result. He said, he'll

403
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,760
Speaker 2: take care of before you. What do you want to achieve?

404
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,560
Speaker 2: He sause, I just want to be left alone. Let's

405
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,960
Speaker 2: work at it in court. Okay, So this is what we want.

406
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,679
Speaker 2: And he kept half when I took half, and he

407
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 2: paid very very well. But what he paid was only

408
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 2: it was less than ten percent of what he got

409
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 2: because the company had about hundred seventy million ducks in it.

410
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:38,359
Speaker 2: I wasn't paying attention.

411
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 1: Big yeah, worse.

412
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 2: Do you know what I did? Oh my god? What

413
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 2: After I resolved at frustrated Sydney to the account I said, mate,

414
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,480
Speaker 2: don't know about that me and it took me ten minutes.

415
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 2: Just give me a million. I walked away from seven

416
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 2: million shares exactly.

417
00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,399
Speaker 1: Put yourself up. Okay, so you're making some money, very

418
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: good money, or the sounds of it. That could have

419
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 1: been a lot better if you were actually listening. But

420
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 1: you took the family over and moved over to Dubai.

421
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had problems with the schools. My girls were

422
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:16,920
Speaker 2: going to Melbum Girls Grammar and the teachers. I was

423
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 2: in the media a lot, not for anything I'd done

424
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 2: other than it being in a park club and the moms,

425
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 2: rightly so would be concerned. But they when we get

426
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,199
Speaker 2: court in some sort of crossfire. So they were rallying

427
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,880
Speaker 2: behind our backs to have our kids with me from

428
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,359
Speaker 2: the school. And they're isolating our children and it's getting

429
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 2: go uncomfortable. So I thought, you know, I can continue

430
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,440
Speaker 2: to do this and be selfish or throw the towel

431
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 2: in go af a couple of years, come back and

432
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 2: start again. So we opted for that.

433
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 1: What was the lifestyle like over there?

434
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,639
Speaker 2: But I was rolling hard in Victoria. I got whatever

435
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 2: I wanted. I get to Dubai and I just didn't rate.

436
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's just what So in Victoria everyone knows

437
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 1: who you are. You got money in your pocket.

438
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 2: Whatever, lived well, drove well, respect friends, restaurants, bars, whatever

439
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:06,160
Speaker 2: you want.

440
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,679
Speaker 1: You're a big fish in a small park. Correct, And

441
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 1: then you've gone over there.

442
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 2: I did not rate zero. No one ever finished in

443
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,360
Speaker 2: my direction, which I didn't mind. I wasn't there for that.

444
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,239
Speaker 2: But I'm saying the difference in life. I've gone from

445
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 2: here to here. It's like being incarcerated again. I going

446
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 2: from a penthouse to sell not exactly, but you know

447
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. So my life for me was okay

448
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,120
Speaker 2: because I still had my international shit going on read

449
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 2: international clubs. We started off Spain, and we were in

450
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 2: Seraova and other parts of the world, and so I

451
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,400
Speaker 2: was often traveling to Europe and I still enjoyed.

452
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 1: So you like you were in a pauper your life wasn't.

453
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 2: I wasn't breadline, no, no, no. We lived. I was

454
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 2: fifty five, so the kumula a little bit of wealth

455
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 2: over the years. Yeah, and we took a lot with

456
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: us and plus I mentioned that I only took one

457
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: billion shares, but he put me on a contract and

458
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 2: he paid me very well for the next five years,

459
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 2: so he made it all up. Then all my money

460
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 2: was getting paid over there because I had money over

461
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 2: this in there as well, So it wasn't difficult. And

462
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,199
Speaker 2: I traveled a lot London, Europe, Africa. It was a

463
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 2: good location for Central Central and the missus worked and

464
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 2: it was good.

465
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: You enjoying the lifestyle, loved it.

466
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, good splut. Yeah you've been.

467
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been.

468
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, really good spot. You just need a lot of money.

469
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:31,360
Speaker 2: You run it real quick.

470
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: Policeman's wage didn't quite cut it. But can I can

471
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 1: I bring up by Wayne Snyder?

472
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

473
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're you're in Dubai. He was in Dubai.

474
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 1: I met Wayne in Dubai and he Hell's Angels.

475
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 2: He was Hell's Angels. I met him in Dubai. He

476
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:52,360
Speaker 2: was living in Dubai through a mutual fan. He rang

477
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 2: me and said he gave me a story about Wayne.

478
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 2: I'd never met him, and he gave him the same

479
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 2: story about me, just so we can meet worked. That

480
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 2: made him nice boke, and we caught up now then.

481
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 1: But you had like, yeah, the gangs can be rivals,

482
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: but you can look at an individual.

483
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 2: I was transparent, so I would let the seniors know, Okay,

484
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to catch up with this bloke. Was sweet, yeah, sweet,

485
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 2: and so it was all good. I didn't I didn't

486
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 2: hide anything I was. I wasn't trying to be tricky

487
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 2: or sneaky. Or trying to make friends with the opposition. Yeah,

488
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 2: because a lot of the guys don't like for a

489
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 2: long time, they wanted him dead. He survived all that.

490
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 2: So I went a few times and then he migrated

491
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 2: to Thailand. I was going to Thailand every now and then.

492
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: We'd catch up a bunch of healths angels.

493
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, he must have vouched for it.

494
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 2: But he was a bus so that i'd be I'd

495
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 2: be sitting next to him and they can all fuck off. Yell.

496
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 2: That's the attitude he had. We just liked each other.

497
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 2: It wasn't based on anything other than personalities. We didn't

498
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 2: work together. He didn't need me, I didn't need him.

499
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just a friend friendship.

500
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't friendship basically. Yeah, name of a long

501
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 2: period of time, so there wasn't much foundation there. But

502
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 2: we you know, we we clicked and knew you could

503
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 2: trust me because I thought I could trust him, no doubt. Yeah,

504
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 2: there was some I mean, I did some work in

505
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: in Europe. It was from Switzerland, Germany, Austria, and it

506
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 2: was a big recovery. I was on and I needed help.

507
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: So I got onto the I got through through our

508
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 2: way and I'm going to the Angels and.

509
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: They helped me with the job and were in the era.

510
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 2: Well, the Germans. The Germans, the Angels are very strong

511
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 2: right in Germany. So as Chinal was tracking this countdown,

512
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 2: he's very been very elusive and had fucking a team

513
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 2: watching him for anyway, long story, but the Angels stepped

514
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: up and helped me and we recovered it. It was good,

515
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 2: good job, we'll benefit from it. So that's we had

516
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 2: that sort of relationship. And this is legitdn't work, it

517
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 2: was it was all conducted in a solicitor's office. So

518
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: that so that's sort of relationship we had. And so

519
00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 2: I hate to go to Thailand for medical reasons and

520
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 2: and obviously I called May and he lives in Tailwind.

521
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 2: We're going to catch up, and we did. We caught

522
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 2: up for a few days. We stayed in the Penase

523
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 2: in Bangkok and we trained, had a few laughs, and.

524
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 1: It was it was from that at that time when

525
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 1: he disappeared, or not disappeared, he was murdered.

526
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 2: What happened was he was very sad. But back then Yah,

527
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: at that time a third person joined us and then

528
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 2: he got on the drugs, got on the girls and

529
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 2: the next thing, you know, when I have a bit

530
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 2: of a crack. Now it's the next day, I get

531
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 2: my results. I'm ready to leave. He didn't want me

532
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: to leave, mate. He wanted me to go to Potato.

533
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 2: There was no way I was going to Potato. I've

534
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 2: never been a Potato, but I've heard about a Potato.

535
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: He wouldn't take that for an answer. What I didn't

536
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: know then is he he spotted that car two weeks

537
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 2: earlier and he left Potato and he was in I

538
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 2: think Kosa moved for two weeks, waited for me to come. No,

539
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 2: not to rescue him, but he was just waiting. And

540
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: I didn't know that he'd seen that. And it was

541
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 2: a bit.

542
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: Uncomfortable, right, so suspicious looking he later, Yeah, I said,

543
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm putting the pieces together myself.

544
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's from one point or not,

545
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: so it could be just fucking off with the fairies,

546
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 2: to be honest with you. But he would not not

547
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 2: let me go to Potato. I had to go to Potato, mate.

548
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: So I went to Potato and we were still partying

549
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 2: and I eventually went to sleep. Yeah, shit happened.

550
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: And let's see he disappeared, and I think his body

551
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: was found twenty four hours later.

552
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they knew where he was. They had the

553
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: whole thing sold within, I assumed the first day because

554
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 2: there were trackers on the car, they had the car

555
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 2: identity immediately, so they tracked the car everywhere.

556
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: Did that cause yeah, you lost a mate obviously, But

557
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: did it cause any dramas? Like? I'm sure there was speculation.

558
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: So much speculation, but I well, I was. I was

559
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 2: arrested obviously. So I got onto the boys in Turkey

560
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: it was still the hierarchy and toil them the situation

561
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 2: and I saw heavy.

562
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: Shit, goodboy putting it.

563
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it's heavy, heavy duty. But yeah, he was

564
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 2: just hanging, hanging for a minute. So about six hours later,

565
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: I get a phone call from an Asian guy says,

566
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 2: put your hand up, which one of you. As I

567
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 2: see this guy talking on my phone say yeah, he guys,

568
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: you're coming with me? I said, I'm a where beaus.

569
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 2: I've been told to take you to the airport and

570
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 2: get you out of the country. Right, Yeah, I'm not

571
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 2: going anywhere because then I've been specifically told you have

572
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 2: to go. I've done nothing. My mate's missing, I'm a

573
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 2: fucking bailing mate. Can you imagine the fun? Am I

574
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 2: going to go? I'll wait for him to get back.

575
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: We didn't know he was dead. We thought he might

576
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 2: have been kidding. Actually thought he was downstairs and there

577
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 2: was a basement. The day before i'd lost him, he

578
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: was in the basement partying. I thought this whole time

579
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: I was arrested, he was in the basement. Anyway, he wasn't, unfortunately,

580
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 2: So I said, I'm not going to go stay, but

581
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: you stay as well. I pay for you to stay

582
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: until until it's resolved. So I've booked a couple of

583
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 2: rooms because the police would let me go to the

584
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 2: hotel across the road for the night. But I was

585
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: in PlayStation all d every day. And then we waited

586
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 2: for I think it was four or five days, and

587
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: then they announced that he was past and then I left.

588
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: But that you weren't testing before I went.

589
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 1: Right five days? Did you? Sweet Well, I don't know

590
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 1: if you've been to Thailand. Now it's over there, they've

591
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: got all the exchange with the drugs, the grass, cannabis

592
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: and all that. They've set up cannabis stores right beside

593
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: police stations. I heard they were doing the backflip again,

594
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: but earlier on this year.

595
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard the same And I was in Thailand

596
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 2: recently and I was in a bar and a guy

597
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 2: came up to me started talking to me like he

598
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 2: was x C I A. He'd retired to Thailand because

599
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: he had something with his brain, a tumor in his brain.

600
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,239
Speaker 2: And the end there's a drug that could only get

601
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 2: from Thailand. So he'd moved to Thailand and he was

602
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 2: for medicate with just little purposes. He was on CBD.

603
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: Well ye, yeah, and this drug and has kept him

604
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: alive and is fine.

605
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, years ago, it would have been a completely different

606
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: different situation. Twenty years not good. We've had a couple

607
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: of people here that have done some time in Thai

608
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: prisons and yeah, heavy, heavy scene. All right. Now you've

609
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: moved from Jubai. You've gone the grease. I think from

610
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: my reading between the book, you just want a little

611
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: bit more freedom than you had in Jubai. You've moved

612
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: to over the Greece.

613
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: Look to Bai was good, it was good for a minute.

614
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: You don't. I mean, it's it's funny enough. I mean

615
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: for an Islamic country, there's a freedom there you have

616
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: that you don't have in Australia, but you have to

617
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 2: behave you cannot be offensive. So for young children, to

618
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 2: bring up young children in that environment, it's brilliant. There's

619
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 2: no offensive behavior on television, on the internet, in the street,

620
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: no one cuddling and kissing. So the kids are just kids.

621
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 2: They're left alone to be children and grow into adults.

622
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: So for that it was amazing. But you know, as

623
00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: an adult, we like to play up a little bit

624
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: and you get a bit boring. So I migrated to

625
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 2: Greece where it's another form of freedom again and you know.

626
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: A bit looser.

627
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: That's a lot of fun. Bro I highly recommend it

628
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: categories there.

629
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: It's good.

630
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: It's very beautiful country. The beaches are amazing, the food's great.

631
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 2: That people are really good and they don't text you

632
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: too much, like yeah, Lebanon, the what the fucking lot

633
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 2: in Greece? I just want to clip.

634
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're there, what you're still doing your consultancy?

635
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I was doing a few things here and there.

636
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 2: The things were drying out because the mining broom had ended.

637
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: You went looking for a sunken treasure.

638
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, black pearl. Fuck me. I was getting

639
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 2: ready to buy the penthouse at the Birch Calipher and

640
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 2: turned one room into a vault.

641
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: I like the story, like everyone once in their lifetime

642
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: should start looking for some So they found.

643
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: The treasure is there? Yeah, there's no doubt about the

644
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: gold being there. It's actually there. It's sixty meters below water,

645
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: about thirty kilometers offshore in Ireland. It's fucking there. All

646
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 2: the documentations there. The ship's on its side. It's hard

647
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 2: to locate. They got a mob out of America that

648
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: had a laser that would cut the ship up because

649
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 2: it was very difficult to enter it. And they spent

650
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: about a million bucks. And I did all the I

651
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: started preparing for moving the gold off the ship with

652
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 2: helicopters and I'm flying them to Dubai.

653
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: You've got some special forces dudes.

654
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: And we all special courses because it's the that sea.

655
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 2: If a helicopter goes down and have your special course.

656
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: We all did the fucking course. We had some Navy

657
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: seals sitting in Denmark. I think it was for two

658
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: weeks waiting to board this ship. The ship was here,

659
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 2: but the last million dollars didn't come through. Whole thing

660
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: fell over in the last minute. Yeah, I could be

661
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: fucking loaded right now.

662
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: Oh well, at least you're gone, gone for your dreams. Okay,

663
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: the day of the sorry the rain, and then you

664
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: could you could have been this. Now I'm going to

665
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: take you to the car cardboard deep. Okay, let's let's

666
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: go there. Tell us about that day. That morning, it's usual,

667
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: just another day.

668
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 2: Got up the kids, get the kids up ready for school.

669
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 2: We had a routine.

670
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: You were raising the kids on your own, paid the.

671
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: Kids for myself increase. I loved it like they had

672
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: a full time living, a person that would keep the

673
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 2: house clean and cook the food and if I needed

674
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 2: to except for ten minutes, there was someone there, right

675
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 2: So it was great. And they had the tutors and

676
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 2: they do went to a really good English speaking private

677
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 2: school which wasn't expensive. They had lunch together. The kids

678
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 2: were a community. The whole school was a community. It's

679
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: unlike here, broke like the kids all socialized with each other.

680
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 2: There was no bullying. Now that when my kids finally

681
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: came back to Australia, they were shocked. They didn't have

682
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: to deal. But now they were loving life there. We

683
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 2: just had such a good time, but I dropped the ball.

684
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: I forgot who I was.

685
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: Okay, forgot to pissed off you were You were mister

686
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: dead Day, just a full time, enjoying life.

687
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: I was followed for three days. I didn't even notice.

688
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: Can you imagine I walk into the room and I

689
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 2: check all the exits, look for weapons, have a lot

690
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: quick look around and say, he is there. I stopped

691
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: doing all that. I was just cleaning up after the kids,

692
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: taking them to activities.

693
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: All right, I've got a sense of it.

694
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: You.

695
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: I thought you were a tough guy, but you turned

696
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: in the midst of mum at this stage. And it's

697
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: interesting because, yeah, you've lived a life that you've got

698
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: to be aware of everything. You've got to be alert,

699
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: you've got to be vigilant. A lot of people come

700
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: unstuck when they do drop their guard. Yeah, but not

701
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: not in the form of getting blown up in a

702
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: car bomb. But you can continue on.

703
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 2: So you know, I dropped the kids to school and

704
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 2: I went to the gym. So I assume I don't know,

705
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: because it's never been confirmed that they probably just put

706
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 2: an explosive under the behind the wheel. Because I was parked.

707
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: It was like a paddock. It was off the street

708
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 2: and anyone could stop beside me. Just got out and

709
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,959
Speaker 2: rolled a little bit of an explosive and waiting for

710
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,239
Speaker 2: me and activated remotely, which was the police did say

711
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 2: it was activaated.

712
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: Remotely because you were traveling with the kids in the

713
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: car earlier on, Well, it was, yeah.

714
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: I dropped the school. When I got to the school,

715
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: I heard a fucking horrendous screech coming from in front

716
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 2: of the steering wheel. So I turned the car quickly

717
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: and panicked a little bit, thinking, with the fuck, I've

718
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: never heard that sound. I'm not suggesting the bomb was there,

719
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 2: but it was just I'm just telling what actually happened

720
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: that morning. It doesn't make it so logical to think

721
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 2: that they would make that sound, But I heard that sound,

722
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 2: and maybe they did put it there prior to that day.

723
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, but that car park was empty and

724
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 2: it would have been a good spot because there's no

725
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 2: other casualties. So I got the kids out quickly, waited

726
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: for a second, took them into their class, started a car,

727
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 2: no issue, and I went forget about it.

728
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: Went to the gym and then you come out.

729
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: I come out of the gym walked to my car,

730
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 2: opened the door, jump in, Both legs are in the

731
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 2: car and the door still open, and the bomb goes off.

732
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 2: So when the bomb went off, the air bag went

733
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 2: off and pushed my head back into the seat. I

734
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 2: didn't get knocked out, so I knew straight away it

735
00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 2: was an explosion.

736
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: It had an and you still had the door open.

737
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: The probably why a you're here talking.

738
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: I'd say so.

739
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

740
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 2: So the two things. Mercedes they designed a lot of

741
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: cars up but particularly Mercedes that if you have a

742
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 2: car accident, they head on car accident on impact. It's

743
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: designed so the engine doesn't fly into you, that the

744
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 2: energy is dispelled around you. So this came from underneath

745
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,479
Speaker 2: where the engine was. The door was opened, so there

746
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,919
Speaker 2: the pedals break my feet apart from that and it's

747
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 2: a bit of fire, a bit of burning, nothing to

748
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: break about.

749
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: All right, tough guy, serious, but yeah, there was significant

750
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: damage done to your ankle. Which which one was it? You?

751
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 2: It's not traumatizing damage. Could have been a car accident, yeah,

752
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 2: could have come off a blake a horse, yeah, couple

753
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 2: of horses and make their neck.

754
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: So you've got out the way the way you described that,

755
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: you're worried about a shooter finishing you off, which is,

756
00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: you know, if someone's trying to take you out, then

757
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 1: you're still alive. The treatment that you got, that you

758
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 1: had thought that you're going to lose your foot.

759
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 2: Well what happened was this is all going in real

760
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 2: time for me. I looked down when I know, when

761
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,919
Speaker 2: I realized my leg was so damaged. I thought straight away,

762
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 2: let's cut that off. Get one of those bionic feet

763
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: like I see. You see pictures of these soldiers with

764
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: the byonic foot back in his kit back at wall.

765
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 2: I'll have one of them. I'll be back at it,

766
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: and let's get on with it. Let's get these guns,

767
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 2: all right, That's all I was thinking about, I mean,

768
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 2: apart from the could be a shooter. But anyway, then

769
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: when I get to the hospital and the surgeon he

770
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 2: sort of he did the first surgeon, but it was

771
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 2: more of like a patch up, but didn't ever bandage it.

772
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 2: Probably I was still dripping and bleeding everywhere, but it

773
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 2: was a really good surgeon came in and said, oh,

774
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 2: you're going to lose your foot. And when he said

775
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 2: it didn't sound didn't see it right. I said, what

776
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 2: do you mean? Because now I said, well, we're gon

777
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 2: my fucking footbro, I it's still there's just take it

778
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 2: back up, all right, A couple of stitches. Do what

779
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 2: you got to do. Because now and I look around you,

780
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: this hospital is at more than one hundred years old.

781
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 2: You're going to get an infection. I said, how are

782
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 2: we going to improve that? I'm going to a private

783
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 2: hospital for a start. I'm out of here. And he

784
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 2: also told me about another product you get from Germany.

785
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 2: It's a it's a bandage that helps prevent infection. So

786
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 2: I got that thrown over from Germany. But when he

787
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 2: heard I was going to a private hospital, he said, oh,

788
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 2: I need to do a more surgery. Can you go tomorrow?

789
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: I said, okay, So that the following morning, he did

790
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 2: a really good job. He's straightened the leg up, put

791
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 2: it all back together. Bandiship properly said. When I got

792
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 2: to the private hospital, because his name's on it, I was,

793
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 2: I was on point, bro. So he did a really

794
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 2: good job. I forget his name. Wish I had known

795
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 2: his name because he was such a good fucking surgeon.

796
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: I should have actually chased that up on a bit slack.

797
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 2: So I get to the other hospital and they did

798
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,919
Speaker 2: this other surgery, put on a fixator and the leg's

799
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 2: looking good. Right. They said, no, we've saved that. You

800
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 2: don't need any more surgeries.

801
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: You're good feeling.

802
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 2: I said, I'm good, Yes, you're good. He said can

803
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: we talk about money? I said sure. I said what

804
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 2: do you need? He goes, oh, can you give us cash? Absolutely?

805
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 2: How much do you want to get? Ten or fifteen?

806
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: I said, Jay, given fifteen. It's last surgery. He goes,

807
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 2: last surgery, but that's it. Yes, give fifteen euros. Came

808
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:18,919
Speaker 2: fifteen thousand euros. And there's this other lady hanging around

809
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 2: the background. He's telling her to fuck off. She's admined

810
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 2: for the hospital.

811
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: They want their boy too.

812
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 2: I had no idea they wanted thirty shit, so we

813
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: paid them. They're thirty right, And then later that puts

814
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: you out the thesis. She's come in starts arguing with me,

815
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 2: no one's paid her. She's the most important one. Surgeries

816
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: every fucking second day, mate so much And I said, look,

817
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: don't worry, I'll pay you directly five hundred euros each time,

818
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 2: which was nothing. So she was on the trip. Turns

819
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 2: out and needed a lot more surgeries. Yeah, it cost

820
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 2: me a fucking stack, but the initial surgery was.

821
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: Good and you you got done a full use. But

822
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: you you're getting around. I'm not noticing it as you

823
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: came in.

824
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 2: Good revenge, you know, revenge is sweet. Things work themselves out.

825
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: We'll see how we go.

826
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't say too much. I haven't. I haven't

827
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 1: cautioned you. We're sitting here and I catch I just had.

828
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: I just had to say revenge. It just came across

829
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: my mind. But the trouble is, I suppose the lifestyle

830
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: you live, there's a one hundred different people that it

831
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: could be.

832
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 2: Well, the thing is, this is the strange thing. I'm

833
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 2: entrenched in the underworld. I fucking know a lot of people.

834
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 2: No one knows who did it, and I didn't die,

835
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 2: so maybe it was just a warning.

836
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: Well, I've known a lot of people that live the

837
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 1: lifestyle you do, and it's a dangerous lifestyle. And quite

838
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: often I said, it's not the other baddies that's going

839
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: to get you killed. We know what's going to You've

840
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: climbed over the wrong fence, and.

841
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 2: Mate, you just don't know because there if it was

842
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 2: anyone in my world they'd be bragging about it, and

843
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 2: that wouldn't let it. I mean, I've been here for

844
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 2: five years. No one's had another crack, so.

845
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: Well, that's that's true. If they've had had a go

846
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: at you and the thought that you might find out

847
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: they came back it.

848
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, people I know don't fuck around. So I don't know.

849
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: All right the book. You told me that, and it

850
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: doesn't fit with your tough guy image. But I think

851
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: it's quite funny that you were writing the book before

852
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: you got the kids breakfast and took it to school.

853
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 1: That's when you're writing the book. The consultants.

854
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: That's my quiet time. Yeah, five or six in the

855
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 2: morning till seven, seven thirty. I had some quiet time,

856
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 2: so i'd bang it out on the computer. A couple

857
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: of cups of coffee enough.

858
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: I went, how'd you find the experience writing it?

859
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 2: No, it's good. I mean it's really good. I didn't

860
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: there's a lot more stories.

861
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you just scratched the surface.

862
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 2: But there was enough content there. Everyone's happy with it.

863
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 1: What what gave you the inspiration to write a book?

864
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 2: Greg Roberts.

865
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: I was wondering whether that would the case.

866
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 2: So when he flew straight to Spain to Greece. He

867
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 2: spent it was looking for him for two days before

868
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 2: he found.

869
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: Me after the bomb.

870
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: This is the kind of guy is finally found me

871
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 2: and were sitting there. He is gone, you gotta watch

872
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 2: these fucking reporters by they're going to write a book

873
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: that they have done. Let me register your names and

874
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: no one else can write it. Then he goes, why

875
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 2: don't you write a book? Good turn into something? I mean, seriously,

876
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 2: what are you going to do next to you? Sit

877
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 2: on your ass? So I did. I mean, I'm confident

878
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 2: in a lot of areas, but you know I'm not

879
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,760
Speaker 2: that articulate. But we managed to do something that's mildly entertaining.

880
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: Well, it's a good broad and I wouldn't give it

881
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: a plug if I didn't didn't enjoy it. But I

882
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: said it to you before. I found it interesting, and

883
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: I got to say it's raw in a way that

884
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: sometimes don't see with true crime books, in that it

885
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: seems like, okay, I get a sense of who you were.

886
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: When I read read the book, I could pretty much go, okay,

887
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: I know this this person.

888
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: I tried to get. We had a ghostraighter so I'd

889
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: write it and not expect him to rewrite it and

890
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 2: make it give you some substance. And he say no,

891
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 2: but it's got to stay in your voice. So he

892
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 2: just did a spell check effectively, so it's all in

893
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 2: my voice. And you know, I really enjoyed the process.

894
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: I think that makes it authentic when it's I can

895
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: imagine you saying exactly the way it comes. I know

896
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: when I did my first book, the main thing was

897
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: it's got a sound like me life advice. You're still here,

898
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: which is a miracle in itself. How do you look

899
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: back at your life?

900
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 2: I have no regrets. I regret nothing. I don't regret

901
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: the ten years jail. It's an experience, like you know,

902
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 2: I've been here for sixty ten, was incarcerated, met some

903
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: interesting people, did some push ups, read a book, and

904
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 2: went home, Like you know, seriously.

905
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 1: Okay, can I I'd like that quote? What did ten years?

906
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: Did some push ups? Read a book and went home?

907
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 2: Basically?

908
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: Okay?

909
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,720
Speaker 2: I mean, like you know, it all builds your character.

910
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 2: When you live in or you get nothing and you

911
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 2: have to fight to get what you get, and then

912
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: you have to really fight to keep it and you

913
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 2: might have to stab one or two, or at the

914
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 2: risk of getting stabbed. In iron Bart daily Bill's character,

915
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: you either crumble ory.

916
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: Step up, okay, at the risk of pissing people off.

917
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 1: Now the criminal world, now, do you think it's easy

918
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: to be a criminal now than what it was in

919
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: your day?

920
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: Or not at all? I mean, they heard us, they

921
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 2: have all the technology. The code is not what it

922
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 2: used to be ethically, like we knew growing up, or

923
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 2: coughed and told you tell them you don't talk to police.

924
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: You just don't. You just knew that it's just no comment,

925
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 2: only because not because you weren't telling on people, but

926
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 2: because they fucking w you. So if you get picked up,

927
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 2: you just don't make it. No comments table.

928
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought of it that way, Jay, but I

929
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 1: was going to agree with you on the fact that

930
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: I know my early days in policing, like I started

931
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,439
Speaker 1: in the eighties, so that's when when I was there

932
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: old school, it was yeah if And I said to

933
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: you when you came in here and sat down, I said, yeah,

934
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: funny in an interview room and I wouldn't even bother

935
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: speaking to you. And you said, you tell me to

936
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: get fucked, And I think that's much that's pretty much

937
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: how how how would have played out. But it has

938
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: changed now and I think policing has got its still

939
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 1: from a police point of view, it's a tough job,

940
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,399
Speaker 1: but they've got advantages now with all the technology.

941
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 2: Technolo, DNA technology. But look that the policing has evolved,

942
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 2: but so are the criminals. Like these guys, you have

943
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 2: to be really sharp to kick on and just stay successful.

944
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: You have to be really really sharp, and you have

945
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: to be really really willing and have all the technologies

946
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 2: that they have that they can afford and just stay

947
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 2: ahead of the game. Some some can and some can't.

948
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: But it's always changing. And we Yea talked about a

949
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: norm the telephone next.

950
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 2: Can you imagine that? That was like, thank fuck, I

951
00:44:59,120 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 2: didn't have one.

952
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:01,879
Speaker 1: I got to say, I was out of the cops

953
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: when it happened. But when it happened, I thought, what

954
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: a brilliant plan from the cops point of view, And.

955
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 2: It's a brilliant plan, but I mean, you just don't

956
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 2: know if it's going to stick really, because.

957
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: I know they're fighting fighting, so they should.

958
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 2: It's like it's a you're behind a wall, how can

959
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 2: identify that person to that to that to that device. Yeah,

960
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 2: you could have the wrong person.

961
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: Well technology, i'd yeah, old school days of sitting there

962
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: and yeah, thinking no one's watching you or listening. It's

963
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: watching everything change. Well, you walk out in the street,

964
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: they can pretty well.

965
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 2: These things here, they can activate and listen to us.

966
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 2: They can be doing the wrong podcast while you're doing

967
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 2: a podcast. Well, if you're doing your podcast, you should

968
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 2: release it first.

969
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think you know my history. But

970
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: this thing is a thing that got me out of

971
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 1: the cops because I recorded a conversation on the phone.

972
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 2: You said that.

973
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 1: But anyway, that's say technology and me never never go down.

974
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 2: Well, it's going to be tough to be a crook

975
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 2: in this day and age.

976
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: I think so. I genuinely think so. And I think

977
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: it's a hard world to go down. If you want it,

978
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: you can go in for the excitement and all that.

979
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: But you've accepted. You accepted, Okay, I did ten years.

980
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 1: A lot of people that would break them.

981
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that weekends. Look, the thing, let me tell

982
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: you is something about Australia. It's the land of opportunity.

983
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 2: You can do very well here, a little bit driven,

984
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 2: a little bit creative, and work hard. So many people

985
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 2: are successful just from that. Just I don't need to

986
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 2: break the law. You don't need to worry about getting rated.

987
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,879
Speaker 2: There are opportunities everywhere, just find them.

988
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: Jay, one thing and you've seen done a lot. I

989
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: get the sense that I called your hard ass at

990
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: the start. Is there anything that you fear.

991
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 2: Anything or anyone, because there's a lot of hectic people

992
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 2: out there.

993
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: Well, you give us both like it.

994
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 2: Well, there's no one in particular, but like I, you know,

995
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,399
Speaker 2: I don't think I've got any enemies, so she don't

996
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: have any fear. But there's definitely a lot of formidable

997
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 2: characters out there. There's no shortage of very willing, hectic

998
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 2: people that will fucking kill you.

999
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: Okay, so you give that, give that respect absolutely.

1000
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't go around poking the bear. Bro.

1001
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: What about your mom, I reckon.

1002
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 2: She unfortunately said that she's passed me. I definitely feed her.

1003
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah, I reckon. She would have to be

1004
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: to keep you a lot in line.

1005
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 2: I tell when we're in court, the policeman, like I

1006
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 2: got arrested, that two guns out on me and they've

1007
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 2: got me on the ground, and I'll just I would

1008
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 2: describe it in court. My mom jumped up and started

1009
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 2: abusing me, said, all the trouble you've been in, all

1010
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 2: the fights you've had, and you let this mamp put

1011
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 2: you on the ground in front of him.

1012
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: Oh, you're weak, prick.

1013
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 2: Very much.

1014
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: Yeah that says Yeah, that says a lot about your mom. Well,

1015
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: I think we'll finish up on that. But look, I

1016
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: really enjoyed the chat, and i'd like how you've been upfront,

1017
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: and I predicted it before before you came on, and

1018
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: when we had the chat, I didn't think there'd be

1019
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: any bullshit or dressing it up. You are who you are.

1020
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: I respect people that live by a moral cod even

1021
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: if I don't agree with the cod. One thing I

1022
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: don't like, Jay, and I think you would tested this too,

1023
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: is hypocrites. I hate people pretending to be something that

1024
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: they're not. And you've raised a couple of times tough

1025
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: guys that are not really tough cops are not biding

1026
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 1: by the law, they're breaking the law.

1027
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1028
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So that's sort of the way I look at things.

1029
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 1: And you are who you are and you stand by it,

1030
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: no regrets. That's what it is. All right, Well, stay

1031
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: alive and enjoy life.

1032
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 2: To our best cheers. Thank you.

1033
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 1: You want to know what it's like sitting down speaking

1034
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: to a real hard ass, Well, I think you found

1035
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,359
Speaker 1: that out. There's something I like about a person that

1036
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 1: lives by a moral code. It might be a moral

1037
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: code that I don't necessarily agree with, but I respect

1038
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: someone that's true to himself. And what I find with

1039
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: Jay is that he owns what he's done. I was

1040
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: worried the fact that he was dealing in heroin, but

1041
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: we addressed that during the talk that he now appreciates

1042
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: the dramas that can cause to a lot of people.

1043
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: He doesn't take it back to step. He's a tough guy,

1044
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: let's face it. But he gave us a really interesting

1045
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: insight into the world that he inhabited, and that's where

1046
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: I wanted to take the listeners, and Jay certainly did

1047
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: that with us today.