Speaker 1: Great team. It's you project, David James, Kevin, Patrick Gillspian's
Speaker 1: here as he is on a semi regular basis. Tiffany
Speaker 1: and Mildred Malaria Cook is here in the.
Speaker 2: Malaria Mildred or is that really your name?
Speaker 1: That's her real No, that's so hurtful. David, Hi, Hi,
Speaker 1: how are you? I'm fabulous? Thanks? How's your Monday gone?
Speaker 1: Give us a quick snapshot? Oh, we know you bought
Speaker 1: because you and I did a potty before. You bought
Speaker 1: four new tires and you didn't get ripped.
Speaker 2: Loved him some shining, got out for a stroll.
Speaker 1: I've had a good monday. You've had a really good monday.
Speaker 1: We're beautiful. I went down the beach and I put
Speaker 1: my little toes in the sand, and then I put
Speaker 1: my little calves, which are not that little, my significant
Speaker 1: calves in the water in the water. How Good's just
Speaker 1: getting in salt water a little bit?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, my body was happy. I went and sat
Speaker 1: in the grass. There's something about connecting with nature. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I reckon. David Gillespie'd be a big fan of grounding
Speaker 1: tif you know where you take your shoes and socks
Speaker 1: off and just get in the dirt and there's that
Speaker 1: I reckon he'd be all over that. What he's got
Speaker 1: to say. I don't know, that's bullshit.
Speaker 2: I looked at it now, I know. I mean, you
Speaker 2: know there's die Hard, the die Hard thing, you know
Speaker 2: where you at the start of die Hard where the
Speaker 2: guy sitting next to him on the plane says to
Speaker 2: you know, when you get off the plane, scrunch your toes.
Speaker 2: You're going to take your shoes off and scrunch your
Speaker 2: toes in the carpet. Make you feel you know, make
Speaker 2: you feel good.
Speaker 1: What about those in that same kind of vein? I
Speaker 1: shouldn't say what I'm about to say everyone, So if
Speaker 1: you don't want to be offended, just come back in
Speaker 1: thirty seconds. You've been warned. What about those people who
Speaker 1: stick there and facing the sun? You know they I forget,
Speaker 1: there's some kind of they get that kind of if
Speaker 1: you've heard of this, haven't you Where people in the
Speaker 1: morning they stick their bum up facing the sun to
Speaker 1: get some kind of and the thirty second people are back,
Speaker 1: you're welcome. I can't say I'm going to be doing
Speaker 1: that anytime soon, especially in Magpie season.
Speaker 2: What's it supposed to do for you.
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know, it's some you know, it's I
Speaker 1: shouldn't say it's in that group. But there's a bunch
Speaker 1: of people who, not a few, like quite a lot
Speaker 1: of people who if maybe you can look up what's
Speaker 1: see that, I reckon that David Ashbury would do that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: probably maybe. Well he also David Asbury, who's a world
Speaker 1: famous biohacker that you probably don't know of or need
Speaker 1: to know of David. But one of the things he's
Speaker 1: famous for is recommending people inject their own urine intramuscularly.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and many other interesting and curious things.
Speaker 1: I think he was one of the whether or not
Speaker 1: that's a good or bad thing, but one of the
Speaker 1: kind of ten, twelve, fifteen year ago early pioneers, if
Speaker 1: that's a good thing of what they colloquially call biohacking.
Speaker 1: But it's gaining I think it's gaining in some places
Speaker 1: a little bit of credibility because what's his name, doctor
Speaker 1: Jeff gross Tiff, you know, the one from Las Vegas
Speaker 1: that we have on ye. I mean he's literally a
Speaker 1: surgeon and a medical doctor and considers himself a biohacker.
Speaker 1: So must be getting a little bit of something.
Speaker 2: Really, I mean, a surgeon is the ultimate biohacker, aren't they.
Speaker 2: I mean they're getting in there and chopping stuff up.
Speaker 1: Well, I know another surgeon who he said to me,
Speaker 1: don't get don't get back surgery unless there is no
Speaker 1: other option.
Speaker 2: Look, there's a lot of a lot of stuff, and
Speaker 2: about the efficacy of a lot of orthopedic surgery, you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of it seems to fall in the category
Speaker 2: of doing it to make the surgeon rich and not
Speaker 2: much else. You know, because the studies on whether or
Speaker 2: not you know, knee operations and back operations and so on,
Speaker 2: actually do anything pretty light on the ground.
Speaker 1: Well. Dr cal Freed, who is a is a sports
Speaker 1: physician in Melbourne, worked in the AFL system for a
Speaker 1: very long time. Friend of mine, has been on the
Speaker 1: show quite a few times. He is absolutely against any
Speaker 1: surgery unless there's no other option. And of course there
Speaker 1: are times when surgery is required, of course, but you know,
Speaker 1: some people have a bit of a dodgyback surgery. It's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: let's try these other seven things before we get to
Speaker 1: the surgical option, which is not say, I mean, of course,
Speaker 1: some surgery is life saving. Of course, we're not saying
Speaker 1: all surgery is bad or surgeons are bad. We're just
Speaker 1: saying maybe it should be. Maybe it should move down
Speaker 1: the list a little bit and we'll particularly for orthopedics.
Speaker 2: You know it should definitely do research on any orthopedic
Speaker 2: operation for a chronic disease before you go that way,
Speaker 2: I would suggest.
Speaker 1: Now, speaking of all things medical, let me get my
Speaker 1: little let me get a little my little specs out.
Speaker 1: So in your substack tip, what are you laughing at?
Speaker 1: And I look like fucking elma fud when I swapped
Speaker 1: one pair of glasses for another pair of glasses. I'm
Speaker 1: old as fuck now, so I don't care the rest
Speaker 1: of you can make fun of me. You've got to
Speaker 1: live as long as me first, so you can all
Speaker 1: get rid of You've got to get to this age.
Speaker 2: Lucky. You're not sensitive about it though, right.
Speaker 1: No, not at all. I'm not sensitive at all. Back
Speaker 1: in therapy for Jumbo and Invisible and Dangerous Overdose is
Speaker 1: the name of an article that David wrote for that's
Speaker 1: in substack in his little what's it called to game data?
Speaker 1: Thank you? Thank you. Every day, millions of Australian women
Speaker 1: consumer government mandated medication. They don't know, they don't know
Speaker 1: they're taking. It's in their morning toast, their lunchtime sandwich.
Speaker 1: They're fortified cereal and they're multi vitamin tablet. This medication,
Speaker 1: folic acid vitamin B nine was introduced as a public
Speaker 1: health miracle, simple way to protect unborn babies from devastating
Speaker 1: birth defects. But a decade later, a startling picture is emerging.
Speaker 2: Do tell Okay, So let's I want to preface this
Speaker 2: by if there are any pregnant we're about to be
Speaker 2: pregnant women listening. There is nothing wrong with taking FOLL
Speaker 2: eight supplements. It is a undoubtedly a good thing to do.
Speaker 2: The benefits in preventing spina bifitter and other brain formation
Speaker 2: or birth defects associated with brain malformation are unequivocal. So
Speaker 2: I don't want this segment to talk anyone out of that,
Speaker 2: and I make that really really clear in the piece
Speaker 2: as well. But there's an unintended consequence of MANDA, and
Speaker 2: I guess what I'm talking about mostly in this piece
Speaker 2: is mass medication, which I have a real problem with.
Speaker 2: And we've talked before about fluoridation and very other things.
Speaker 2: I'm not against the things that they're supposed to be fixing.
Speaker 2: I am against mass medicating people without them knowing they're
Speaker 2: being mass medicated. And we've talked before about some of
Speaker 2: the other B vitamin's vitamin B six, for example, which
Speaker 2: is added into magnesium tablets to make them absorbed more easily,
Speaker 2: but can massively overdose you on vitamin B six in
Speaker 2: a really dangerous fashion, just because you don't even know
Speaker 2: you're taking it. You know, people would say I'm not
Speaker 2: taking out at all, without realizing they're taking ten times
Speaker 2: the daily dose just by taking magnesium tablets. This falls
Speaker 2: into that category. So in two thousand and nine, the
Speaker 2: Australian government mandated the vitamin B nine, or folic acid,
Speaker 2: be added to all bread sold in Australia, all bread
Speaker 2: and flour for making bread. So it is added in,
Speaker 2: and it's added in a very specific level, which is
Speaker 2: at one hundred and twenty micrograms per hundred grams. The
Speaker 2: aim there was to prevent foliated deficiency in the population. Now,
Speaker 2: we've never had a big problem foloid deficiency, but there
Speaker 2: were some very convincing studies that said that if pregnant
Speaker 2: women increase their folid intake to up to one thousand
Speaker 2: micrograms per day. Then there was a significant reduction in
Speaker 2: the chances of spina biffeter and a bunch of other
Speaker 2: birth defects associated with the brain and spinal cord occurring. Now,
Speaker 2: these things are pretty rare anyway, so a significant increase
Speaker 2: in the probability or decrease in the probability. You don't
Speaker 2: have to have change much to do that. But it
Speaker 2: was clear on the evidence that if you increase foliated
Speaker 2: supplementation during pregnancy you could reduce the rate of spina
Speaker 2: biffeter and some other conditions equivocal. So the government said, right, well,
Speaker 2: we're not taking any chances with this. We're going to
Speaker 2: mandate this in the bread and so we're not going
Speaker 2: to tell others to be to go and take foloated supplements,
Speaker 2: although they do that as well. We're just going to
Speaker 2: make sure if you ignore all health advice and you
Speaker 2: ignore people telling you to take foloiated supplements and all
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, and you are pregnant, then you'll
Speaker 2: be fine. And that's the thing of it. So it
Speaker 2: happened in two thousand and nine. Great so far the
Speaker 2: problem is that a very big study has just been released.
Speaker 2: There's looked at a really interesting scientific experiment, which is
Speaker 2: normally you can't do experiments on pregnant women. You know, ethics.
Speaker 2: People have all sorts of problems. You know, I can
Speaker 2: control group you're going to do something to in another
Speaker 2: control and another group you're going to not do something to.
Speaker 2: It's just there's all kinds of ethical problems with that.
Speaker 2: So it's really tricky. But there was a natural experiment
Speaker 2: that occurred in Australia in that there was a popular
Speaker 2: there was a big study of pregnant women that was
Speaker 2: where they recruited the population before the mandate, and another
Speaker 2: big study the recruited from the same population after the
Speaker 2: mandate ten years later. So there was a before two
Speaker 2: thousand and nine and then ten years later, same group.
Speaker 2: And so you've got a fantastic experiment there where you
Speaker 2: can say, Okay, first of all, did it deliver the
Speaker 2: promised benefits in spine and bifida. Answer unequivocally yes, they did. Okay, terrific.
Speaker 2: But the other thing they noticed was a huge increase
Speaker 2: and I'm talking a tripling of the rate of gestational
Speaker 2: diabetes in the mothers.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, oh wow.
Speaker 2: So gestational diabetes is just is like type two diabetes,
Speaker 2: but it's called gestational because it happens, you know, usually
Speaker 2: first during pregnancy, and now all pregnant women get a
Speaker 2: little bit insulent resistant. It's the nature of pregnancy. And
Speaker 2: the reason for that is that evolution favors the baby,
Speaker 2: and so the baby must be fed first. So if
Speaker 2: you make the mother a little insulin resistant, then the
Speaker 2: blood glucose is going to the baby first. So that's
Speaker 2: all perfectly normal and perfectly by design. What they found though,
Speaker 2: was that if you significantly overdose people on FOL eight,
Speaker 2: if you go above that's what seems to be that
Speaker 2: magical thousand micrograms today, by the way, the recommended doses
Speaker 2: four to six hundred micrograms per day for a pregnant woman.
Speaker 2: But there's this sort of goldilock zone that's between that
Speaker 2: and a thousand, where as long as you're under the thousand,
Speaker 2: you're okay. B But if you go above that and
Speaker 2: significantly above that, then you significantly increase the likelihood that
Speaker 2: the mother will experience gestational diabetes. So, in other words,
Speaker 2: the mother will become a type two diabetic at least
Speaker 2: during the pregnancy. And the studies also say that if
Speaker 2: you're if you have a gestational diabetes, then you're much
Speaker 2: much more likely to ultimately end up with type two
Speaker 2: diabetes within a decade after the pregnancy.
Speaker 1: Can I ask a quick ask a quick question just
Speaker 1: to try to give this some context or meaning for
Speaker 1: people going, you know, four to six hundred micrograms of
Speaker 1: fole eight or up to a thousand, and it's in
Speaker 1: the bread, and so people that are maybe I don't
Speaker 1: know if you know the answer to this, but so
Speaker 1: if somebody had, let's say, two pieces of bread that's
Speaker 1: got FOL eight, you know it's been supplemented or what
Speaker 1: do they call it fortified with fol eight? How much
Speaker 1: like four to six hundred micrograms? What would two bits
Speaker 1: of kind of regular bread have do you know.
Speaker 2: Oh, well, that's two bits of bread is going to
Speaker 2: be around two hundred grams. Mark in terms of bread,
Speaker 2: it's one hundred and twenty. It's mandated to be one
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty micrograms per hundred grams. Okay, so every
Speaker 2: sandwich you have is going to be one hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty micrograms. The problem is, and if that was the
Speaker 2: only place it was. Then nobody be at any particular risk.
Speaker 2: I suspected nobody's eating that much bread. I mean, unless
Speaker 2: you're chowing die down on an entire loaf of bread.
Speaker 2: You know, in a typical day, you're not going to
Speaker 2: eat well, maybe you eat two, maybe four, maybe you
Speaker 2: eat six pieces of bread, but you're still well involved
Speaker 2: locks aren't. The problem is that, in addition to that,
Speaker 2: women are also intentionally supplementing with filowed. So one of
Speaker 2: the big pieces of medical advice that they're given is
Speaker 2: to take foloid supplements before conception and during pregnancy, and
Speaker 2: those tablets generally are around that recommended level, somewhere between
Speaker 2: four hundred and six hundred micrograms. So that's that plus
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty and the two pieces of bread
Speaker 2: plus a similar amount in a bowl of fortified cereals.
Speaker 2: So most breakfast cereals are fortified with folate. Plus if
Speaker 2: you take a multivitamin, then you can add another two
Speaker 2: to four hundred micrograms on there as well. So, because
Speaker 2: it's regarded as an unequivocally good thing, it's appearing in
Speaker 2: lots of places. So there's the mandated thing in the bread.
Speaker 2: But it's in lots of other places too. And what
Speaker 2: the study found is that most Australian women had we're
Speaker 2: now massively overdosing on folate. So between what they were
Speaker 2: intentionally taking and what they're accidentally taking, they were taking
Speaker 2: in a lot of folate and instead of the expected result,
Speaker 2: which would be well, that doesn't really matter, it's no
Speaker 2: such thing as too much of a good thing. Well,
Speaker 2: in this case, it looks like there could be such
Speaker 2: a thing as too much of a good thing. And
Speaker 2: that's the concern. Now, you know, there's ways you can
Speaker 2: criticize this study. You can you can say, okay, well
Speaker 2: the population became more obese in that period of time,
Speaker 2: that's definitely true, but it didn't become not sufficient to
Speaker 2: explain a tripling of the rate of gestational diabetes where
Speaker 2: we've gone from five percent of pregnant women having it
Speaker 2: to fifteen percent of pregnant women having it, big jump
Speaker 2: in a decade.
Speaker 1: Less can I ask? So when in two thousand and
Speaker 1: nine this became you know, mandated, or this just became
Speaker 1: was well people made aware of this, like is this
Speaker 1: government at the time.
Speaker 2: I think at the time there was a fairly big
Speaker 2: awareness campaign around it and you know why it was
Speaker 2: being done, and everyone unequivocally agreed it was a good thing. Studies,
Speaker 2: The studies on this are, you know, really clear pregnant
Speaker 2: women should have folate, you know, prevention of spine of
Speaker 2: if it is a massive, unequivocal benefit. The concern here
Speaker 2: is that mass medicating always tends to have unintended consequences.
Speaker 2: And what this study has done in a really precise
Speaker 2: manner is and just because I'm lucky they had samples
Speaker 2: from the same group before and after, has got into
Speaker 2: the to answer the question, which is is it possible
Speaker 2: to have too much of a good thing? And the
Speaker 2: answer appears to be yes. So it's not I'm not
Speaker 2: for a minute suggesting people shouldn't take folate or shouldn't
Speaker 2: have followed supplementation. What I am suggesting is that they
Speaker 2: should become an accountant of it. They should very carefully
Speaker 2: pay attention to how much of it they are actually consuming.
Speaker 1: And it's something we talk about, or we've talked about
Speaker 1: a bit, you and I, but also more broadly on
Speaker 1: the show, a lot is about the dose. It's like
Speaker 1: anything exercise is great, but not seven hours a day.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, like drinking water is good,
Speaker 1: but not seven liters a day. You know, it's like me.
Speaker 2: But with both of those things, you're never going to
Speaker 2: do it accidentally. You're never going to accidentally fall over
Speaker 2: and find you've exercised seven hours a day. Where this
Speaker 2: this you'll do without knowing about it. And that's the
Speaker 2: concern is that this is in all the bread by
Speaker 2: not by law, but it's there anyway. It's also in
Speaker 2: most of the cereals, and it's creeping into many things
Speaker 2: because people see it as a marketing thing. This is
Speaker 2: you know, this contains folight and that helps sell things
Speaker 2: to pregnant women.
Speaker 1: M wow, well, I guess like people are. How do
Speaker 1: you manage this? You just become more aware, I guess,
Speaker 1: and you just.
Speaker 2: Well, it's like that with B six and we had
Speaker 2: this discussion before. I mean, it's know about it, be
Speaker 2: aware of it, know about it, know how much you're consuming,
Speaker 2: and be conscious of it. The the the science is
Speaker 2: really clear that anything one hundred one thousand micrograms a
Speaker 2: day is perfectly fine. It's it's easy to stay under
Speaker 2: that as long as you're aware of it and still
Speaker 2: take foiloight supplements. Just be aware. Okay, If I'm having
Speaker 2: one hundred grams of bred thats one hundred and twenty grams.
Speaker 2: If I'm having a breakfast cereal, there's there's some there.
Speaker 2: If I'm having any other kind of supplement, I read
Speaker 2: the label and I check how much folate is in
Speaker 2: this supplement.
Speaker 1: Is there a link to this article in your in
Speaker 1: your article to the actual.
Speaker 2: You always always always people, I can go and read
Speaker 2: read the study.
Speaker 1: If you want to go to David's article if you
Speaker 1: want to actually look at the paper itself or the
Speaker 1: research itself and the design.
Speaker 2: And it's open access by way, so it's not one
Speaker 2: of these ones that it's restricted. You can read the
Speaker 2: whole paper. You can dig in as far as you
Speaker 2: want to go. It's from the University of South Australia,
Speaker 2: I think so. And very very recent twenty twenty five article.
Speaker 1: Speaking of pregnant women and medical issues that are also
Speaker 1: in the news recently, there's well I'll just segue into that,
Speaker 1: but there's been another issue with the very common drug
Speaker 1: that people have been talking about the dangers of pregnant
Speaker 1: women using that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, in the United States, you know, about a
Speaker 2: week ago the President looked up and the soupern leader
Speaker 2: pronounced that til and old, which you know Australian listeners
Speaker 2: might not be all that familiar with. But that's paracetamol
Speaker 2: or panadol or a set of minifin as I mean.
Speaker 2: Donald had a bit of a bit of trouble pronouncing
Speaker 2: that one, but let's just call it panadol for the
Speaker 2: purposes of this. So pronounced that pa at all causes autism.
Speaker 2: Now that's just nonsense, that's just nonsense. But we have
Speaker 2: the leader of the free world telling pregnant women to
Speaker 2: avoid just about the only thing they're allowed to take
Speaker 2: for pain relief during pregnancy, because mostly they're told to
Speaker 2: avoid anything that is likely to actually relieve pain or
Speaker 2: in any significant degree because of the potential dangers of it.
Speaker 2: And he's basing this on a really flawed study that
Speaker 2: was done well, I don't know if it was a
Speaker 2: flawed study or just a flawed interpretation of it. There
Speaker 2: has been a study of two and a half million
Speaker 2: women in the Swedish birth registry, two and a half
Speaker 2: men and children in the Swedish birth registry. The Swedes
Speaker 2: are very very good at keeping these records and there
Speaker 2: are lots of studies that come from these registries that look,
Speaker 2: there's about a five percent association between a mother having
Speaker 2: taken panidole during pregnancy and the incidents of autism. Now,
Speaker 2: as you would be the first to shout there, you know,
Speaker 2: correlation is not causation, and in this case, this is
Speaker 2: real proof of it, because the thing you've got to
Speaker 2: adjust for in these kinds of studies is why was
Speaker 2: the mother taking panadol in the first place. Usually they're
Speaker 2: not taking it because they like the taste. They're taking
Speaker 2: it because they're suffering pain or fever during pregnancy, and
Speaker 2: it could be that that's causing the association. But how
Speaker 2: do you adjust for that. Well, when you've got two
Speaker 2: and a half million children in a database, it's easy
Speaker 2: to adjust for them because many mothers have more than
Speaker 2: one child, and many of those mothers have one of
Speaker 2: the children where they were taking kind of old during
Speaker 2: pregnancy and another child where they weren't, And when you
Speaker 2: compare those, it goes away entirely. There is no correlation
Speaker 2: none whatsoever. And it's a big data set, so we
Speaker 2: can be reasonably confident in it. So whoever is advising
Speaker 2: Trump saw the first part of that.
Speaker 1: I think it's our fk.
Speaker 2: They saw the first part of that and left to
Speaker 2: Thailand Old causes autism, which is sheer nonsense, as proven
Speaker 2: by the second part of it, which says, when we
Speaker 2: actually analyze the data properly, there's not even a correlation there.
Speaker 2: There's just nothing.
Speaker 1: It's like for me, it's like saying, you know two
Speaker 1: and a half million children, and however, many millions of mums,
Speaker 1: and of them, you know, fifteen percent of them because
Speaker 1: of Sweden, fifteen percent of them drove Volvos. So so
Speaker 1: fifteen percent and fifteen percent of the Volvo of the
Speaker 1: women drove Volvos also had children with autism. That's a
Speaker 1: three times the correlation of panadole. You know, I mean
Speaker 1: that cause autism. That's the Volvo's cause autism. That could
Speaker 1: be the name of the show, except I don't want
Speaker 1: to get sued imagine that.
Speaker 2: But that's it's a case study in correlation and causation.
Speaker 2: It's an absolute case study. And it very rarely are
Speaker 2: you able to sew quickly and easily debunk that correlation
Speaker 2: well than in this circumstance. And yet you've now got
Speaker 2: the US government telling pregnant women not to take, as
Speaker 2: I said, just about the only thing they are allowed
Speaker 2: to take for pain during pregnancy. And by the way,
Speaker 2: this is not advice that's free from danger. Fever during
Speaker 2: pregnancy is unequivocally dangerous for unborn children. Yes, and so
Speaker 2: what you're saying to the population is tuffed out. Well.
Speaker 2: In fact, those are the exact words that President Trump used,
Speaker 2: tough it out to a pregnant woman, which is ridiculous.
Speaker 1: How do we get to this how do we get
Speaker 1: to this spot where Donald Trump's handing out medical advice.
Speaker 1: Let's add odds with medical people.
Speaker 2: People just anyone capable of reading a scientific study would
Speaker 2: say that's nonsense. And it's so it is distressing and
Speaker 2: should be, in my view, completely disregarded by anyone. H
Speaker 2: And now, mind you, I've still got problems with panadol.
Speaker 2: We've talked before about how it actually reduces empathy and
Speaker 2: makes you.
Speaker 1: More about yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: So those pregnant women, if they don't want to be
Speaker 2: like psychopaths, should definitely avoid panadole. But if they're running
Speaker 2: a fever, the risks associated with that are significantly greater
Speaker 2: than the non existent risks of it causing autism.
Speaker 1: And if you're wondering what David's talk about everyone, we
Speaker 1: spoke probably a good year ago about there is actually
Speaker 1: a relationship between people who use panadol or panadine or
Speaker 1: whatever you call it, paracetamol and they're more likely to
Speaker 1: be yeah, psychopaths or sociopaths or whatever.
Speaker 2: That's well, it reduces measureable produces empathy. Yeah, and since
Speaker 2: that's the core feature of psychopathy, for the four hours
Speaker 2: or so that it's affecting you, you are likely to
Speaker 2: be less empathetic.
Speaker 1: I haven't paid much attention, but as there's been a
Speaker 1: lot of pushback in the States to the Grand Medical
Speaker 1: Chief Advisor, there has.
Speaker 2: Been obviously anyone with any position at all of influence
Speaker 2: has come out and said it essentially the same thing
Speaker 2: I've just said. But I don't know how much traction
Speaker 2: that gets in the United States now, logic doesn't seem
Speaker 2: to play a large part in the way that some
Speaker 2: people there are behaving.
Speaker 1: I'd love to this as not for tonight, but I'd
Speaker 1: love to do a chat with you one day about
Speaker 1: just your observations on what's happening. I'm pretty sure that
Speaker 1: would not be a thirty minute chat. But can I
Speaker 1: ask you one question, not but a more global question.
Speaker 1: I guess are you Are you worried about the state
Speaker 1: of the world in terms of like where it just
Speaker 1: seems to be like everybody screaming at everybody and extremism becoming.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about particular political this or religious that,
Speaker 1: or but just I don't know. It just seems to
Speaker 1: me like a global shouting match at the moment.
Speaker 2: I'm a believer in history repeating itself, particularly when it
Speaker 2: comes to social behaviors and social structures, and I believe
Speaker 2: that we tend to go through a roughly eighty year
Speaker 2: cycles of largely progressive behavior, which is everyone helping everyone else,
Speaker 2: which gets pushed towards the edge where essentially it's the
Speaker 2: rich get richer and the poor get poorer. We're in
Speaker 2: that phase at the moment, right at the end of it.
Speaker 2: The last time it happened was during the Gilded Age,
Speaker 2: just before the Second World War, and I think there
Speaker 2: are some real lessons to be learned about how society
Speaker 2: looked then and how the Second World War solved it.
Speaker 2: And the probably horrible prediction that that leads us to,
Speaker 2: which is that the only thing that's going to fix
Speaker 2: it this time round is a significant disaster. So that's
Speaker 2: a fairly pessimistic look at the world. But that's my
Speaker 2: fear at the moment. And I'm currently just for fun
Speaker 2: doing a lot of reading about the Gilded Age and
Speaker 2: we'll probably write something about it at some point, of course.
Speaker 1: You will. Toys fun chatting to you mate, Thank you
Speaker 1: for jumping on a Monday night that you don't normally do.
Speaker 2: Pleasure.
Speaker 1: We'll say goodbye fair but thanks again, David. Yeah, loads
Speaker 1: of fun see ye, Thanks TIV, Thanks Tip,