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Speaker 1: Great team. It's you project, David James, Kevin, Patrick Gillspian's

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Speaker 1: here as he is on a semi regular basis. Tiffany

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Speaker 1: and Mildred Malaria Cook is here in the.

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Speaker 2: Malaria Mildred or is that really your name?

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Speaker 1: That's her real No, that's so hurtful. David, Hi, Hi,

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Speaker 1: how are you? I'm fabulous? Thanks? How's your Monday gone?

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Speaker 1: Give us a quick snapshot? Oh, we know you bought

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Speaker 1: because you and I did a potty before. You bought

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Speaker 1: four new tires and you didn't get ripped.

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Speaker 2: Loved him some shining, got out for a stroll.

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Speaker 1: I've had a good monday. You've had a really good monday.

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Speaker 1: We're beautiful. I went down the beach and I put

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Speaker 1: my little toes in the sand, and then I put

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Speaker 1: my little calves, which are not that little, my significant

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Speaker 1: calves in the water in the water. How Good's just

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Speaker 1: getting in salt water a little bit?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, my body was happy. I went and sat

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Speaker 1: in the grass. There's something about connecting with nature. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I reckon. David Gillespie'd be a big fan of grounding

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Speaker 1: tif you know where you take your shoes and socks

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Speaker 1: off and just get in the dirt and there's that

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Speaker 1: I reckon he'd be all over that. What he's got

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Speaker 1: to say. I don't know, that's bullshit.

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Speaker 2: I looked at it now, I know. I mean, you

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Speaker 2: know there's die Hard, the die Hard thing, you know

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Speaker 2: where you at the start of die Hard where the

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Speaker 2: guy sitting next to him on the plane says to

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Speaker 2: you know, when you get off the plane, scrunch your toes.

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Speaker 2: You're going to take your shoes off and scrunch your

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Speaker 2: toes in the carpet. Make you feel you know, make

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Speaker 2: you feel good.

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Speaker 1: What about those in that same kind of vein? I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't say what I'm about to say everyone, So if

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Speaker 1: you don't want to be offended, just come back in

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Speaker 1: thirty seconds. You've been warned. What about those people who

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Speaker 1: stick there and facing the sun? You know they I forget,

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Speaker 1: there's some kind of they get that kind of if

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Speaker 1: you've heard of this, haven't you Where people in the

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Speaker 1: morning they stick their bum up facing the sun to

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Speaker 1: get some kind of and the thirty second people are back,

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Speaker 1: you're welcome. I can't say I'm going to be doing

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Speaker 1: that anytime soon, especially in Magpie season.

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Speaker 2: What's it supposed to do for you.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know, it's some you know, it's I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't say it's in that group. But there's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of people who, not a few, like quite a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who if maybe you can look up what's

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Speaker 1: see that, I reckon that David Ashbury would do that? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: probably maybe. Well he also David Asbury, who's a world

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Speaker 1: famous biohacker that you probably don't know of or need

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Speaker 1: to know of David. But one of the things he's

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Speaker 1: famous for is recommending people inject their own urine intramuscularly.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and many other interesting and curious things.

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Speaker 1: I think he was one of the whether or not

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Speaker 1: that's a good or bad thing, but one of the

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Speaker 1: kind of ten, twelve, fifteen year ago early pioneers, if

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Speaker 1: that's a good thing of what they colloquially call biohacking.

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Speaker 1: But it's gaining I think it's gaining in some places

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Speaker 1: a little bit of credibility because what's his name, doctor

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Speaker 1: Jeff gross Tiff, you know, the one from Las Vegas

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Speaker 1: that we have on ye. I mean he's literally a

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Speaker 1: surgeon and a medical doctor and considers himself a biohacker.

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Speaker 1: So must be getting a little bit of something.

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Speaker 2: Really, I mean, a surgeon is the ultimate biohacker, aren't they.

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Speaker 2: I mean they're getting in there and chopping stuff up.

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Speaker 1: Well, I know another surgeon who he said to me,

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Speaker 1: don't get don't get back surgery unless there is no

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Speaker 1: other option.

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Speaker 2: Look, there's a lot of a lot of stuff, and

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Speaker 2: about the efficacy of a lot of orthopedic surgery, you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of it seems to fall in the category

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Speaker 2: of doing it to make the surgeon rich and not

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Speaker 2: much else. You know, because the studies on whether or

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Speaker 2: not you know, knee operations and back operations and so on,

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Speaker 2: actually do anything pretty light on the ground.

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Speaker 1: Well. Dr cal Freed, who is a is a sports

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Speaker 1: physician in Melbourne, worked in the AFL system for a

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Speaker 1: very long time. Friend of mine, has been on the

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Speaker 1: show quite a few times. He is absolutely against any

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Speaker 1: surgery unless there's no other option. And of course there

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Speaker 1: are times when surgery is required, of course, but you know,

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Speaker 1: some people have a bit of a dodgyback surgery. It's like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: let's try these other seven things before we get to

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Speaker 1: the surgical option, which is not say, I mean, of course,

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Speaker 1: some surgery is life saving. Of course, we're not saying

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Speaker 1: all surgery is bad or surgeons are bad. We're just

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Speaker 1: saying maybe it should be. Maybe it should move down

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Speaker 1: the list a little bit and we'll particularly for orthopedics.

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Speaker 2: You know it should definitely do research on any orthopedic

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Speaker 2: operation for a chronic disease before you go that way,

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Speaker 2: I would suggest.

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Speaker 1: Now, speaking of all things medical, let me get my

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Speaker 1: little let me get a little my little specs out.

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Speaker 1: So in your substack tip, what are you laughing at?

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Speaker 1: And I look like fucking elma fud when I swapped

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Speaker 1: one pair of glasses for another pair of glasses. I'm

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Speaker 1: old as fuck now, so I don't care the rest

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Speaker 1: of you can make fun of me. You've got to

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Speaker 1: live as long as me first, so you can all

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Speaker 1: get rid of You've got to get to this age.

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Speaker 2: Lucky. You're not sensitive about it though, right.

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Speaker 1: No, not at all. I'm not sensitive at all. Back

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Speaker 1: in therapy for Jumbo and Invisible and Dangerous Overdose is

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Speaker 1: the name of an article that David wrote for that's

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Speaker 1: in substack in his little what's it called to game data?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? Thank you. Every day, millions of Australian women

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Speaker 1: consumer government mandated medication. They don't know, they don't know

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Speaker 1: they're taking. It's in their morning toast, their lunchtime sandwich.

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Speaker 1: They're fortified cereal and they're multi vitamin tablet. This medication,

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Speaker 1: folic acid vitamin B nine was introduced as a public

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Speaker 1: health miracle, simple way to protect unborn babies from devastating

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Speaker 1: birth defects. But a decade later, a startling picture is emerging.

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Speaker 2: Do tell Okay, So let's I want to preface this

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Speaker 2: by if there are any pregnant we're about to be

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Speaker 2: pregnant women listening. There is nothing wrong with taking FOLL

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Speaker 2: eight supplements. It is a undoubtedly a good thing to do.

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Speaker 2: The benefits in preventing spina bifitter and other brain formation

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Speaker 2: or birth defects associated with brain malformation are unequivocal. So

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Speaker 2: I don't want this segment to talk anyone out of that,

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Speaker 2: and I make that really really clear in the piece

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Speaker 2: as well. But there's an unintended consequence of MANDA, and

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Speaker 2: I guess what I'm talking about mostly in this piece

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Speaker 2: is mass medication, which I have a real problem with.

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Speaker 2: And we've talked before about fluoridation and very other things.

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Speaker 2: I'm not against the things that they're supposed to be fixing.

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Speaker 2: I am against mass medicating people without them knowing they're

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Speaker 2: being mass medicated. And we've talked before about some of

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Speaker 2: the other B vitamin's vitamin B six, for example, which

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Speaker 2: is added into magnesium tablets to make them absorbed more easily,

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Speaker 2: but can massively overdose you on vitamin B six in

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Speaker 2: a really dangerous fashion, just because you don't even know

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Speaker 2: you're taking it. You know, people would say I'm not

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Speaker 2: taking out at all, without realizing they're taking ten times

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Speaker 2: the daily dose just by taking magnesium tablets. This falls

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Speaker 2: into that category. So in two thousand and nine, the

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Speaker 2: Australian government mandated the vitamin B nine, or folic acid,

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Speaker 2: be added to all bread sold in Australia, all bread

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Speaker 2: and flour for making bread. So it is added in,

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Speaker 2: and it's added in a very specific level, which is

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Speaker 2: at one hundred and twenty micrograms per hundred grams. The

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Speaker 2: aim there was to prevent foliated deficiency in the population. Now,

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Speaker 2: we've never had a big problem foloid deficiency, but there

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Speaker 2: were some very convincing studies that said that if pregnant

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Speaker 2: women increase their folid intake to up to one thousand

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Speaker 2: micrograms per day. Then there was a significant reduction in

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Speaker 2: the chances of spina biffeter and a bunch of other

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Speaker 2: birth defects associated with the brain and spinal cord occurring. Now,

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Speaker 2: these things are pretty rare anyway, so a significant increase

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Speaker 2: in the probability or decrease in the probability. You don't

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Speaker 2: have to have change much to do that. But it

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Speaker 2: was clear on the evidence that if you increase foliated

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Speaker 2: supplementation during pregnancy you could reduce the rate of spina

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Speaker 2: biffeter and some other conditions equivocal. So the government said, right, well,

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Speaker 2: we're not taking any chances with this. We're going to

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Speaker 2: mandate this in the bread and so we're not going

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Speaker 2: to tell others to be to go and take foloated supplements,

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Speaker 2: although they do that as well. We're just going to

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Speaker 2: make sure if you ignore all health advice and you

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Speaker 2: ignore people telling you to take foloiated supplements and all

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Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, and you are pregnant, then you'll

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Speaker 2: be fine. And that's the thing of it. So it

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Speaker 2: happened in two thousand and nine. Great so far the

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Speaker 2: problem is that a very big study has just been released.

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Speaker 2: There's looked at a really interesting scientific experiment, which is

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Speaker 2: normally you can't do experiments on pregnant women. You know, ethics.

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Speaker 2: People have all sorts of problems. You know, I can

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Speaker 2: control group you're going to do something to in another

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Speaker 2: control and another group you're going to not do something to.

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Speaker 2: It's just there's all kinds of ethical problems with that.

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Speaker 2: So it's really tricky. But there was a natural experiment

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Speaker 2: that occurred in Australia in that there was a popular

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Speaker 2: there was a big study of pregnant women that was

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Speaker 2: where they recruited the population before the mandate, and another

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Speaker 2: big study the recruited from the same population after the

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Speaker 2: mandate ten years later. So there was a before two

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Speaker 2: thousand and nine and then ten years later, same group.

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Speaker 2: And so you've got a fantastic experiment there where you

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Speaker 2: can say, Okay, first of all, did it deliver the

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Speaker 2: promised benefits in spine and bifida. Answer unequivocally yes, they did. Okay, terrific.

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Speaker 2: But the other thing they noticed was a huge increase

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Speaker 2: and I'm talking a tripling of the rate of gestational

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Speaker 2: diabetes in the mothers.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, oh wow.

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Speaker 2: So gestational diabetes is just is like type two diabetes,

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Speaker 2: but it's called gestational because it happens, you know, usually

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Speaker 2: first during pregnancy, and now all pregnant women get a

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Speaker 2: little bit insulent resistant. It's the nature of pregnancy. And

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Speaker 2: the reason for that is that evolution favors the baby,

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Speaker 2: and so the baby must be fed first. So if

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Speaker 2: you make the mother a little insulin resistant, then the

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Speaker 2: blood glucose is going to the baby first. So that's

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Speaker 2: all perfectly normal and perfectly by design. What they found though,

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Speaker 2: was that if you significantly overdose people on FOL eight,

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Speaker 2: if you go above that's what seems to be that

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Speaker 2: magical thousand micrograms today, by the way, the recommended doses

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Speaker 2: four to six hundred micrograms per day for a pregnant woman.

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Speaker 2: But there's this sort of goldilock zone that's between that

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Speaker 2: and a thousand, where as long as you're under the thousand,

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Speaker 2: you're okay. B But if you go above that and

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Speaker 2: significantly above that, then you significantly increase the likelihood that

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Speaker 2: the mother will experience gestational diabetes. So, in other words,

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Speaker 2: the mother will become a type two diabetic at least

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Speaker 2: during the pregnancy. And the studies also say that if

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Speaker 2: you're if you have a gestational diabetes, then you're much

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Speaker 2: much more likely to ultimately end up with type two

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Speaker 2: diabetes within a decade after the pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: Can I ask a quick ask a quick question just

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Speaker 1: to try to give this some context or meaning for

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Speaker 1: people going, you know, four to six hundred micrograms of

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Speaker 1: fole eight or up to a thousand, and it's in

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Speaker 1: the bread, and so people that are maybe I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you know the answer to this, but so

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Speaker 1: if somebody had, let's say, two pieces of bread that's

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Speaker 1: got FOL eight, you know it's been supplemented or what

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Speaker 1: do they call it fortified with fol eight? How much

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Speaker 1: like four to six hundred micrograms? What would two bits

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Speaker 1: of kind of regular bread have do you know.

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Speaker 2: Oh, well, that's two bits of bread is going to

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Speaker 2: be around two hundred grams. Mark in terms of bread,

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Speaker 2: it's one hundred and twenty. It's mandated to be one

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Speaker 2: hundred and twenty micrograms per hundred grams. Okay, so every

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Speaker 2: sandwich you have is going to be one hundred and

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Speaker 2: twenty micrograms. The problem is, and if that was the

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Speaker 2: only place it was. Then nobody be at any particular risk.

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Speaker 2: I suspected nobody's eating that much bread. I mean, unless

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Speaker 2: you're chowing die down on an entire loaf of bread.

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Speaker 2: You know, in a typical day, you're not going to

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Speaker 2: eat well, maybe you eat two, maybe four, maybe you

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Speaker 2: eat six pieces of bread, but you're still well involved

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Speaker 2: locks aren't. The problem is that, in addition to that,

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Speaker 2: women are also intentionally supplementing with filowed. So one of

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Speaker 2: the big pieces of medical advice that they're given is

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Speaker 2: to take foloid supplements before conception and during pregnancy, and

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Speaker 2: those tablets generally are around that recommended level, somewhere between

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Speaker 2: four hundred and six hundred micrograms. So that's that plus

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Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty and the two pieces of bread

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Speaker 2: plus a similar amount in a bowl of fortified cereals.

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Speaker 2: So most breakfast cereals are fortified with folate. Plus if

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Speaker 2: you take a multivitamin, then you can add another two

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Speaker 2: to four hundred micrograms on there as well. So, because

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Speaker 2: it's regarded as an unequivocally good thing, it's appearing in

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Speaker 2: lots of places. So there's the mandated thing in the bread.

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Speaker 2: But it's in lots of other places too. And what

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Speaker 2: the study found is that most Australian women had we're

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Speaker 2: now massively overdosing on folate. So between what they were

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Speaker 2: intentionally taking and what they're accidentally taking, they were taking

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Speaker 2: in a lot of folate and instead of the expected result,

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Speaker 2: which would be well, that doesn't really matter, it's no

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Speaker 2: such thing as too much of a good thing. Well,

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Speaker 2: in this case, it looks like there could be such

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Speaker 2: a thing as too much of a good thing. And

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Speaker 2: that's the concern. Now, you know, there's ways you can

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Speaker 2: criticize this study. You can you can say, okay, well

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Speaker 2: the population became more obese in that period of time,

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Speaker 2: that's definitely true, but it didn't become not sufficient to

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Speaker 2: explain a tripling of the rate of gestational diabetes where

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Speaker 2: we've gone from five percent of pregnant women having it

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Speaker 2: to fifteen percent of pregnant women having it, big jump

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Speaker 2: in a decade.

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Speaker 1: Less can I ask? So when in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: nine this became you know, mandated, or this just became

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Speaker 1: was well people made aware of this, like is this

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Speaker 1: government at the time.

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Speaker 2: I think at the time there was a fairly big

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Speaker 2: awareness campaign around it and you know why it was

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Speaker 2: being done, and everyone unequivocally agreed it was a good thing. Studies,

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Speaker 2: The studies on this are, you know, really clear pregnant

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Speaker 2: women should have folate, you know, prevention of spine of

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Speaker 2: if it is a massive, unequivocal benefit. The concern here

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Speaker 2: is that mass medicating always tends to have unintended consequences.

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Speaker 2: And what this study has done in a really precise

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Speaker 2: manner is and just because I'm lucky they had samples

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Speaker 2: from the same group before and after, has got into

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Speaker 2: the to answer the question, which is is it possible

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Speaker 2: to have too much of a good thing? And the

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Speaker 2: answer appears to be yes. So it's not I'm not

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Speaker 2: for a minute suggesting people shouldn't take folate or shouldn't

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Speaker 2: have followed supplementation. What I am suggesting is that they

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Speaker 2: should become an accountant of it. They should very carefully

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Speaker 2: pay attention to how much of it they are actually consuming.

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Speaker 1: And it's something we talk about, or we've talked about

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Speaker 1: a bit, you and I, but also more broadly on

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Speaker 1: the show, a lot is about the dose. It's like

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Speaker 1: anything exercise is great, but not seven hours a day.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean, like drinking water is good,

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Speaker 1: but not seven liters a day. You know, it's like me.

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Speaker 2: But with both of those things, you're never going to

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Speaker 2: do it accidentally. You're never going to accidentally fall over

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Speaker 2: and find you've exercised seven hours a day. Where this

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Speaker 2: this you'll do without knowing about it. And that's the

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Speaker 2: concern is that this is in all the bread by

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Speaker 2: not by law, but it's there anyway. It's also in

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Speaker 2: most of the cereals, and it's creeping into many things

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Speaker 2: because people see it as a marketing thing. This is

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Speaker 2: you know, this contains folight and that helps sell things

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Speaker 2: to pregnant women.

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Speaker 1: M wow, well, I guess like people are. How do

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Speaker 1: you manage this? You just become more aware, I guess,

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Speaker 1: and you just.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's like that with B six and we had

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Speaker 2: this discussion before. I mean, it's know about it, be

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Speaker 2: aware of it, know about it, know how much you're consuming,

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Speaker 2: and be conscious of it. The the the science is

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Speaker 2: really clear that anything one hundred one thousand micrograms a

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Speaker 2: day is perfectly fine. It's it's easy to stay under

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Speaker 2: that as long as you're aware of it and still

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Speaker 2: take foiloight supplements. Just be aware. Okay, If I'm having

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Speaker 2: one hundred grams of bred thats one hundred and twenty grams.

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Speaker 2: If I'm having a breakfast cereal, there's there's some there.

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Speaker 2: If I'm having any other kind of supplement, I read

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Speaker 2: the label and I check how much folate is in

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Speaker 2: this supplement.

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Speaker 1: Is there a link to this article in your in

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Speaker 1: your article to the actual.

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Speaker 2: You always always always people, I can go and read

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Speaker 2: read the study.

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Speaker 1: If you want to go to David's article if you

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Speaker 1: want to actually look at the paper itself or the

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Speaker 1: research itself and the design.

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Speaker 2: And it's open access by way, so it's not one

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Speaker 2: of these ones that it's restricted. You can read the

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Speaker 2: whole paper. You can dig in as far as you

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Speaker 2: want to go. It's from the University of South Australia,

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Speaker 2: I think so. And very very recent twenty twenty five article.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of pregnant women and medical issues that are also

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Speaker 1: in the news recently, there's well I'll just segue into that,

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Speaker 1: but there's been another issue with the very common drug

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Speaker 1: that people have been talking about the dangers of pregnant

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Speaker 1: women using that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, in the United States, you know, about a

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Speaker 2: week ago the President looked up and the soupern leader

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Speaker 2: pronounced that til and old, which you know Australian listeners

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Speaker 2: might not be all that familiar with. But that's paracetamol

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Speaker 2: or panadol or a set of minifin as I mean.

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Speaker 2: Donald had a bit of a bit of trouble pronouncing

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Speaker 2: that one, but let's just call it panadol for the

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Speaker 2: purposes of this. So pronounced that pa at all causes autism.

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Speaker 2: Now that's just nonsense, that's just nonsense. But we have

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Speaker 2: the leader of the free world telling pregnant women to

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Speaker 2: avoid just about the only thing they're allowed to take

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Speaker 2: for pain relief during pregnancy, because mostly they're told to

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Speaker 2: avoid anything that is likely to actually relieve pain or

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Speaker 2: in any significant degree because of the potential dangers of it.

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Speaker 2: And he's basing this on a really flawed study that

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Speaker 2: was done well, I don't know if it was a

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Speaker 2: flawed study or just a flawed interpretation of it. There

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Speaker 2: has been a study of two and a half million

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Speaker 2: women in the Swedish birth registry, two and a half

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Speaker 2: men and children in the Swedish birth registry. The Swedes

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Speaker 2: are very very good at keeping these records and there

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Speaker 2: are lots of studies that come from these registries that look,

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Speaker 2: there's about a five percent association between a mother having

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Speaker 2: taken panidole during pregnancy and the incidents of autism. Now,

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Speaker 2: as you would be the first to shout there, you know,

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Speaker 2: correlation is not causation, and in this case, this is

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Speaker 2: real proof of it, because the thing you've got to

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Speaker 2: adjust for in these kinds of studies is why was

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Speaker 2: the mother taking panadol in the first place. Usually they're

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Speaker 2: not taking it because they like the taste. They're taking

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Speaker 2: it because they're suffering pain or fever during pregnancy, and

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Speaker 2: it could be that that's causing the association. But how

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Speaker 2: do you adjust for that. Well, when you've got two

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Speaker 2: and a half million children in a database, it's easy

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Speaker 2: to adjust for them because many mothers have more than

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Speaker 2: one child, and many of those mothers have one of

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Speaker 2: the children where they were taking kind of old during

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Speaker 2: pregnancy and another child where they weren't, And when you

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Speaker 2: compare those, it goes away entirely. There is no correlation

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Speaker 2: none whatsoever. And it's a big data set, so we

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Speaker 2: can be reasonably confident in it. So whoever is advising

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Speaker 2: Trump saw the first part of that.

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Speaker 1: I think it's our fk.

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Speaker 2: They saw the first part of that and left to

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Speaker 2: Thailand Old causes autism, which is sheer nonsense, as proven

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Speaker 2: by the second part of it, which says, when we

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Speaker 2: actually analyze the data properly, there's not even a correlation there.

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Speaker 2: There's just nothing.

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Speaker 1: It's like for me, it's like saying, you know two

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Speaker 1: and a half million children, and however, many millions of mums,

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Speaker 1: and of them, you know, fifteen percent of them because

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Speaker 1: of Sweden, fifteen percent of them drove Volvos. So so

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Speaker 1: fifteen percent and fifteen percent of the Volvo of the

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Speaker 1: women drove Volvos also had children with autism. That's a

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Speaker 1: three times the correlation of panadole. You know, I mean

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Speaker 1: that cause autism. That's the Volvo's cause autism. That could

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Speaker 1: be the name of the show, except I don't want

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Speaker 1: to get sued imagine that.

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Speaker 2: But that's it's a case study in correlation and causation.

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Speaker 2: It's an absolute case study. And it very rarely are

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Speaker 2: you able to sew quickly and easily debunk that correlation

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Speaker 2: well than in this circumstance. And yet you've now got

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Speaker 2: the US government telling pregnant women not to take, as

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Speaker 2: I said, just about the only thing they are allowed

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Speaker 2: to take for pain during pregnancy. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: this is not advice that's free from danger. Fever during

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Speaker 2: pregnancy is unequivocally dangerous for unborn children. Yes, and so

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Speaker 2: what you're saying to the population is tuffed out. Well.

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Speaker 2: In fact, those are the exact words that President Trump used,

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Speaker 2: tough it out to a pregnant woman, which is ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: How do we get to this how do we get

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Speaker 1: to this spot where Donald Trump's handing out medical advice.

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Speaker 1: Let's add odds with medical people.

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Speaker 2: People just anyone capable of reading a scientific study would

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Speaker 2: say that's nonsense. And it's so it is distressing and

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Speaker 2: should be, in my view, completely disregarded by anyone. H

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Speaker 2: And now, mind you, I've still got problems with panadol.

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Speaker 2: We've talked before about how it actually reduces empathy and

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Speaker 2: makes you.

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Speaker 1: More about yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: So those pregnant women, if they don't want to be

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Speaker 2: like psychopaths, should definitely avoid panadole. But if they're running

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Speaker 2: a fever, the risks associated with that are significantly greater

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Speaker 2: than the non existent risks of it causing autism.

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Speaker 1: And if you're wondering what David's talk about everyone, we

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Speaker 1: spoke probably a good year ago about there is actually

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Speaker 1: a relationship between people who use panadol or panadine or

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Speaker 1: whatever you call it, paracetamol and they're more likely to

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Speaker 1: be yeah, psychopaths or sociopaths or whatever.

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Speaker 2: That's well, it reduces measureable produces empathy. Yeah, and since

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Speaker 2: that's the core feature of psychopathy, for the four hours

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Speaker 2: or so that it's affecting you, you are likely to

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Speaker 2: be less empathetic.

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Speaker 1: I haven't paid much attention, but as there's been a

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Speaker 1: lot of pushback in the States to the Grand Medical

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Speaker 1: Chief Advisor, there has.

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Speaker 2: Been obviously anyone with any position at all of influence

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Speaker 2: has come out and said it essentially the same thing

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Speaker 2: I've just said. But I don't know how much traction

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Speaker 2: that gets in the United States now, logic doesn't seem

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Speaker 2: to play a large part in the way that some

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Speaker 2: people there are behaving.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to this as not for tonight, but I'd

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Speaker 1: love to do a chat with you one day about

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Speaker 1: just your observations on what's happening. I'm pretty sure that

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Speaker 1: would not be a thirty minute chat. But can I

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00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: ask you one question, not but a more global question.

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Speaker 1: I guess are you Are you worried about the state

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00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: of the world in terms of like where it just

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00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: seems to be like everybody screaming at everybody and extremism becoming.

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking about particular political this or religious that,

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00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: or but just I don't know. It just seems to

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Speaker 1: me like a global shouting match at the moment.

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Speaker 2: I'm a believer in history repeating itself, particularly when it

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00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 2: comes to social behaviors and social structures, and I believe

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00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 2: that we tend to go through a roughly eighty year

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00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 2: cycles of largely progressive behavior, which is everyone helping everyone else,

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00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: which gets pushed towards the edge where essentially it's the

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00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: rich get richer and the poor get poorer. We're in

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Speaker 2: that phase at the moment, right at the end of it.

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Speaker 2: The last time it happened was during the Gilded Age,

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Speaker 2: just before the Second World War, and I think there

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Speaker 2: are some real lessons to be learned about how society

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00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 2: looked then and how the Second World War solved it.

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Speaker 2: And the probably horrible prediction that that leads us to,

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Speaker 2: which is that the only thing that's going to fix

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00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: it this time round is a significant disaster. So that's

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Speaker 2: a fairly pessimistic look at the world. But that's my

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Speaker 2: fear at the moment. And I'm currently just for fun

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00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: doing a lot of reading about the Gilded Age and

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Speaker 2: we'll probably write something about it at some point, of course.

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Speaker 1: You will. Toys fun chatting to you mate, Thank you

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Speaker 1: for jumping on a Monday night that you don't normally do.

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Speaker 2: Pleasure.

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Speaker 1: We'll say goodbye fair but thanks again, David. Yeah, loads

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Speaker 1: of fun see ye, Thanks TIV, Thanks Tip,