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Speaker 1: And with her with Kate Ritchie podcast.

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Speaker 2: We absolutely adore this lady.

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Speaker 3: She's an author, educator, comedian and parenting and resilient special as.

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Speaker 3: Her name is Maggie Welcome.

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Speaker 1: Do you know the thing about Maggie Dan, It's impossible

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Speaker 1: to get enough you Just everybody has an insatiable appetite

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Speaker 1: for Maggie Dan.

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Speaker 4: She's like she's like a barrel or a Pringles.

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Speaker 1: Once you pop, you can't stop.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god, we should call your pringle. No apparently, no, apparently,

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Speaker 5: some other mums tell me that needs to be a

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Speaker 5: tonic in the fridge with gin.

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Speaker 1: Now, yes, okay, I'm going to have.

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Speaker 5: A bit of Maggie cool my jets.

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Speaker 1: Yes, just a dent.

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Speaker 4: I've been looking forward to meeting you, Maggie because the

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Speaker 4: boys do speak very highly of what the thing is.

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Speaker 1: Every time Tommy will say, hey, great news, guys, Maggiedan's

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Speaker 1: coming in your mind just fills with questions what you

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Speaker 1: personally want to talk to Maggie about? What are you

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Speaker 1: getting at the moment, Maggie, and we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about your new podcast, The Good Enough Dad. Is it

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Speaker 1: about dads at the moment? Is that where your focus.

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Speaker 5: Is Yeah, I think so, because I mean women, let's

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Speaker 5: just generalization sweeping. You know, every now and then there's

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Speaker 5: a guy that does read a parenting book, but they

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Speaker 5: are constantly like, let's lead up to the birth of

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Speaker 5: a baby. They read six or seven books. They've been

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Speaker 5: chewing their sisters and mums are in their girlfriends and

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Speaker 5: they've just got them all over and yeah, you're exactly right, Kate.

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Speaker 5: And then dads turn up say let's just get into

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Speaker 5: this right, and then they can get absolutely knock sideways

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Speaker 5: because it's such a big thing. The big thing they

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Speaker 5: keep telling me is my heart just couldn't believe what

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Speaker 5: happened in my heart. And then I just felt useless, yep,

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Speaker 5: because it didn't number one or to do, whether it's

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Speaker 5: breastmeeting or not.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 5: And you know when some of them say, look, I

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Speaker 5: still feel like a failure, Maggie, when I've been walking

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Speaker 5: the floor with that baby that I can't set all

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Speaker 5: at three in the morning, and I'm going that happens

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Speaker 5: to me as a nanny, mate. Yeah, but I don't

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Speaker 5: take it right because there's that conditioning of guys. You

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Speaker 5: got to get it right, You've got to be the loudest,

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Speaker 5: the biggest, the best, the first, so they do take

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Speaker 5: those things. That's why I wanted to keep reassuring them

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Speaker 5: good enough enough.

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Speaker 1: I think that's important, isn't it, Fitz? Can I just

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Speaker 1: jump in quickly go for it because I think I

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Speaker 1: don't want this to be what about us? But I

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Speaker 1: feel the pressure on the modern day dad is bigger

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Speaker 1: than ever before. You've got to be the all rounder,

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Speaker 1: and you've got to be able to earn the crust.

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Speaker 1: You know, you've got the traditional role, which still exists

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Speaker 1: for the male, but then you've got to be able

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Speaker 1: to do the other things and not taking it away

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Speaker 1: from anything the mother does. But the dad's role has evolved.

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Speaker 5: Oh best, best social change ever.

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Speaker 1: In a strain, and I wouldn't have it any other one.

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Speaker 5: And most dads won't, which is why I keep on

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Speaker 5: wanting to reassure them that your dad might have not

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Speaker 5: been the dad that you want to be, and you

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Speaker 5: might not read parenting books, but every now and then,

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Speaker 5: if your female partner wants to tag you and something,

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Speaker 5: read it now, because in there is something that she

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Speaker 5: really wants you to come on board with as a

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Speaker 5: team player. That is the concept. You're exactly right. But

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Speaker 5: the conditioning again for days is I'm the fixer, my

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Speaker 5: job to fix and stop problems. Of course I'm the problem.

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Speaker 5: So well, you know what parenting is. Some days crap happens. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: and there's no solution for mums or dads and you

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Speaker 5: haven't failed them. And that's that's a big message.

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Speaker 2: Can you reassure me? Can I can you give me

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Speaker 2: an exercise you start?

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Speaker 4: Okay, because week this one out as a mum.

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Speaker 2: Okay, this might help with you as well as a parent.

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Speaker 1: Write this down.

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Speaker 3: And I heard you talking about may the other day.

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Speaker 3: But okay, So we get up very early in the morning.

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Speaker 3: Our day consists of in the afternoon you hit a wall,

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Speaker 3: not just once, probably twice. I've cut sleeps out naps,

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Speaker 3: stuffed me around with my sleeping at night. But there's

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Speaker 3: a moment like in the afternoon the boys come home

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Speaker 3: and like you said, they go from rules at school

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Speaker 3: and they come home and they want to wrestle and

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Speaker 3: play with their willies. Yes, and do you know what,

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Speaker 3: I have fun. There are moments where I am so

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Speaker 3: frustrated and I'm so tired, and I need patience in

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Speaker 3: my life because I can.

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Speaker 2: Crack any second. Give me something. What do I do?

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Speaker 2: Can I have an exercise that I can.

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Speaker 3: Do to walk away and then to walk into that

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Speaker 3: situation again with a totally different outlaw.

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Speaker 5: The first thing you do is you just put your

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Speaker 5: hands out and go guys. Remember dad's a bit tired.

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Speaker 2: Yep. Just just want to be honest with them.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, look I'm a bit tired. So what I might

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Speaker 5: do is just go sit outside for a while, you know,

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Speaker 5: because really that wrestling, it's never fatal. It's just exactly

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Speaker 5: what they do because they like their brother, even though

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Speaker 5: you think they don't. We just let it roll. But

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Speaker 5: you step yourself aside a bit, right, make yourself a

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Speaker 5: cup of to you to Tim Tam, just cool your

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Speaker 5: jets outside for a bit. If there's some blood, they'll

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Speaker 5: come find you. Yes, but I need you to know

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Speaker 5: that this is part of it, just how I feel. Yes,

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Speaker 5: and it's okay saying can you model how you manage

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Speaker 5: your big, ugly feelings, because how else your kid's gonna

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Speaker 5: you know, like mums can do it the same. I'm

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Speaker 5: going to lose my whatever I hang on, I'm going

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Speaker 5: to go to my bedroom just for few moments. I

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Speaker 5: do recommend you have a really good block of fruit

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Speaker 5: and nuts, because that's a health fruit hidden in the bedroom.

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Speaker 5: You mail health and then some deep breathing and I

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Speaker 5: guarantee you reset with serotonin. You come back out and

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Speaker 5: you're now going to be able to be the parent

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Speaker 5: you want.

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Speaker 1: To go on again. Ok, to break up the dad

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Speaker 1: love A question from you from a mother's point of view, Oh.

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Speaker 5: My goodness, where do I start?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we all have them.

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Speaker 4: I think what I'm finding challenging at the moment is

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Speaker 4: how my daughter is nine and I don't know if

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Speaker 4: it's poormonal, but it's just it's just very hard to

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Speaker 4: get her to do what I want her to, oh,

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Speaker 4: what I want her to do. And my mum and

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Speaker 4: dad parented very differently and much stricter, and we get

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Speaker 4: a smack, you know, and we obviously I don't do

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Speaker 4: that in our home, but there are sometimes where I'm

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Speaker 4: thinking and now it all makes sense, my mum and

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Speaker 4: why the house was so loud, why my parents were yelling,

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Speaker 4: Why we got a smack? Like how do you.

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Speaker 2: How do you reason?

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Speaker 4: How do you reason with a with a nine year roll?

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Speaker 5: Okay? Do you just not there's a few things going

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Speaker 5: on because she's a tween, right, and this is an

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Speaker 5: interesting window. Just let me drop that. Yeah, really, because

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Speaker 5: all the stuff's starting to change, which is the growth

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Speaker 5: towards autonomy. It's a bit like the toddler wants autonomy,

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Speaker 5: my way me do. Yeah, she's doing that to accept

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Speaker 5: a little bit of steroids underneath. Okay, So that whole

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Speaker 5: notion of behaviorism, which says if you don't punish them,

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Speaker 5: you have a crapcady. And also if you don't praise

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Speaker 5: and overwart and reward them, then they you know, for

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Speaker 5: what they do. That's good. That works for rats. Okay, right,

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Speaker 5: but you're also conditioned and that's why I'm a good person. No,

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Speaker 5: you could be a good person without punishment, yes, but discipline.

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Speaker 5: So discipline is where I walk in with my swagger

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Speaker 5: and I go, we don't do this in this house,

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Speaker 5: put that down, yep, and then we go, come on,

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Speaker 5: let's sum outside, so we go firm hold the boundary

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Speaker 5: and if they need to erupt around it, great. But

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Speaker 5: my other thought to it is don't sweat the small

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Speaker 5: stuff because if you're always walking in with swagger, yes,

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Speaker 5: where's the connection, where's the love? Where's the joy? And

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Speaker 5: sometimes it's just being totally I had to be a

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Speaker 5: comedian with four boys, right.

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Speaker 2: They they wouldn't listen to you.

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Speaker 5: I knew though, No, I'm wired that way. I also

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Speaker 5: know that they're wired not to listen. But I also

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Speaker 5: know that our girls are equally wired to Mum's is

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Speaker 5: going to go on and on, and she says it

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Speaker 5: all the time, coming up to them, you know, rubbing

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Speaker 5: their back in their shoulder and going, Yep, it's time

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Speaker 5: that plate sink.

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Speaker 4: It's going now, We're going to do that now.

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Speaker 5: And I'm going to direct you yeah, and you know,

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Speaker 5: and that's kind of it. It seems little, but you've

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Speaker 5: got to remember our kids are dealing in a very

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Speaker 5: different world.

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Speaker 1: Like you talk about that being little plate. Now, if

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Speaker 1: you continue to do those things, it builds and can

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Speaker 1: correct itself.

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Speaker 5: Got the money is I wanted? I want them to

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Speaker 5: come on board with me and be on the journey

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Speaker 5: with us. Not I'm directing your journey. It's we on

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Speaker 5: this journey. So sometimes it's so what do I what

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Speaker 5: do we have to do for you to remember to

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Speaker 5: put your plate in the sink?

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Speaker 6: Home?

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Speaker 5: What do we have to do?

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Speaker 2: We're working together.

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Speaker 5: Rather than me always pointing there going you need to

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Speaker 5: do that, and you haven't done that, and you have

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Speaker 5: to do this because I just learned to zone that

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Speaker 5: voice out well.

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Speaker 4: Like you do with other But you know, if you've

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Speaker 4: got someone nagging it and you learn not to hear that,

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Speaker 4: hear that voice, there's not all that time.

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Speaker 5: Not a person on the planet that likes being told

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Speaker 5: what to do correct, same as it. Nobody tell me

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Speaker 5: to calm down? Yeah, right, so same thing. So what

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Speaker 5: am I doing? Am I requesting in a way that's

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Speaker 5: kind of like you know what I talked to my

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Speaker 5: best friend or mate about, or am I speaking to

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Speaker 5: you down? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I like your idea and you said it with fits

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Speaker 4: as well that it's more with with dads as part

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Speaker 4: of the family, and then you're talking about like mums

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Speaker 4: and kids. Is that working together and and being the

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Speaker 4: team perhaps is the objective because it's so hard you

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Speaker 4: second guess everything all of the time. Am I doing

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Speaker 4: the right thing? Am I being too strict? Am I trying?

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Speaker 4: Am I not being strict enough? Because then you've got,

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Speaker 4: say the older generation who says that you should be

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Speaker 4: strict with your kids and that they're not going to

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Speaker 4: respect you and they're spoiled.

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Speaker 5: To see why, you know, So can I show this

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Speaker 5: slight difference between mums and dads, like when you go

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Speaker 5: to bed at night, because the singular focus of most

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Speaker 5: males means I'm going to go to bed to go

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Speaker 5: to sleep, and you go to bed and you go

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Speaker 5: to sleep. So the mum comes to bed to go

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Speaker 5: to sleep. But we're biologically wired to make sure that

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Speaker 5: we're caring really well because of estrogen. So we'll go

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Speaker 5: through every decision we made during the day, from you know,

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Speaker 5: breakfast right through not only that, well, my god, they

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Speaker 5: didn't need enough brocoliches. Do I have enough of that

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Speaker 5: in the lunch box? And then well it's a female thing.

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Speaker 5: And then we second guess and we beat ourselves up,

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Speaker 5: and then we suddenly we're wondering if they'll get into university.

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Speaker 5: And then we've gone back and regret something we did

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Speaker 5: at our twenty first and then and we've come forward

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Speaker 5: to the kids again comparing to somebody else. Then we've gone,

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Speaker 5: oh my god, my eyebrows, we need to put that in.

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Speaker 5: There's a load of washing, and have I got it right?

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Speaker 5: And about one o'clock in the morning. Yea, this is

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Speaker 5: the useful This is the mental load we carry for

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Speaker 5: the people we love. Sorry, Kate to do that, I

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Speaker 5: absolutely hear that. So what I want sometimes is for

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Speaker 5: our dads to recognize that we're just it's just we're

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Speaker 5: wired different. But we want the dads to be able

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Speaker 5: to jump in sometimes and I've got this, got this love. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: what about with mums and dads?

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Speaker 6: Sorry, just the dialogue that doesn't ever stop, that doesn't

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Speaker 6: ever end. And I think the other thing about mums

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Speaker 6: and dads is that when dads decide to go to bed,

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Speaker 6: or the male you know, the partner, the male partner,

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Speaker 6: he will just go to bed. Mums turn all the

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Speaker 6: lights out and make sure the black door is locked,

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Speaker 6: make sure and then and then sometimes the dad's lying

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Speaker 6: in the bed and all the lights are on in

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Speaker 6: the house.

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Speaker 5: It's like, is this single focus?

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Speaker 3: I'm adhd with locking all the doors in the window,

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Speaker 3: but I do that.

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Speaker 2: But okay, I am honestly, at nine o'clock on the dot.

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Speaker 1: That's it.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to bed. Stuff you all. Yeah, you haven't

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Speaker 2: cleaned your teeth. I don't care what you're doing. Give

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Speaker 2: me a keys. I'm going.

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Speaker 4: But I think that's a skill to be able to

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Speaker 4: do that because mum switch off like that because mums,

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Speaker 4: I think, and this is generalizing as well, mums won't

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Speaker 4: do that, but then they'll blame everyone for not being

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Speaker 4: able to do it. I didn't get to go to

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Speaker 4: bed when you did there. Yeah, you do have to

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Speaker 4: be a level bent or mut.

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Speaker 5: Bubbles speaking sometimes, And I know this sounds really crazy,

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Speaker 5: but we know there's a distinct difference between the memory

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Speaker 5: capacity of males and females, and so sometimes when I'm

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Speaker 5: when I'm talking about for dads, like, oh, maybe I

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Speaker 5: was doing lunch and I'm mucked up. I forgot this

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Speaker 5: bit and I went, what can really work is that

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Speaker 5: can mum actually have a photograph of the lunch box

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Speaker 5: on the fridge for the days he has to step

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Speaker 5: up because I know you told me last week, but

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Speaker 5: I can't remember what that box is and just run

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Speaker 5: out of that what do I put? So once again,

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Speaker 5: it's a bit like Bandit going to the pool, right,

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Speaker 5: and he just forgot the sunscreen and the drinks and

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Speaker 5: the snack and the towel and he's gone with a

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Speaker 5: great joy of love to connect with his kids. But

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Speaker 5: sometimes not all days, but sometimes we needed better help.

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Speaker 5: Can we do that without going b You've got yes,

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Speaker 5: you know, and send a text picture of the pasta

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Speaker 5: sauce you like, right, because they just go, okay, pasta sauce,

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Speaker 5: any one of those.

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Speaker 1: But us girls, God, you're not telling me. Men and

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Speaker 1: women are different, aren't you.

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Speaker 5: Maggie.

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Speaker 3: We've had a lot of people ringing in they want

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Speaker 3: to chat to you. We've got Danniel who's listening via

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Speaker 3: then overplay down at Danny Tasmania.

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Speaker 5: You there, Daniel, Yes, Hello, you've got Maggie here go Danny. Hi, Hi,

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Speaker 5: how are you good?

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Speaker 7: So my question is, unfortunately we lost my mom three

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Speaker 7: months ago, so the boy's grandma. She was only fifty nine,

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Speaker 7: so a young grandma. Thank you. It's been really tough,

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Speaker 7: like sort of it was a short illness, so it

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Speaker 7: happened really quickly. It's a bit of a shock to

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Speaker 7: all of us, especially my kids who are eight and five.

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Speaker 7: So we still mention grandma a lot, but they don't

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Speaker 7: intend to bring her up or sort of same thing.

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Speaker 7: So I was just wondering whether, like obviously, if that's normal,

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Speaker 7: or like if I should be, you know, bringing you

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Speaker 7: up more often. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: First, I'll give you a great big Maggie hug over

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Speaker 5: the airwaves. Okay, thank you? Are they boys? Yeah yeah, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 5: they don't do it good, right, it's a whole different way.

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Speaker 5: Not only they haven't consciously forgotten, but there's this pain

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Speaker 5: in their heart that when they think of it so

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Speaker 5: and they've got heaps of these resources online because I

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Speaker 5: worked in death and dying for a long time. Can

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Speaker 5: I just offer you a suggestion. You get a great, big,

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Speaker 5: blowing up picture of Grandma and stick it somewhere where

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Speaker 5: they can sometimes maybe not light a candle club eurn

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Speaker 5: the house down, but put some flowers. But what they

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Speaker 5: do is come in and chat to her like they

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Speaker 5: would have, like tell the things that happened during the day,

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Speaker 5: and it actually keeps her in their mind sight. Because

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Speaker 5: we're not good, not good around loss and grief and

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Speaker 5: it's one of those areas that I have worked really

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Speaker 5: really closely with. But we need to tell them that

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Speaker 5: the reason we feel sad is because we loved and

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Speaker 5: not to avoid the pain, and that how the pain

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Speaker 5: goes is by talking and sharing and loving, and that

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Speaker 5: that's exactly what happens when we lose something we love,

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Speaker 5: and it's one of the you know, I've been known

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Speaker 5: for a long time to suggest families with children under

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Speaker 5: five to get the guinea pig because in stroking the

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Speaker 5: guinea pig they develop a bond and then hopefully it'll die.

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Speaker 5: And then when it dies, we have the lessons around death,

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Speaker 5: not just a story book. They're actually feeling it. And

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Speaker 5: then what are we doing. Are we beautifully respectfully putting

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Speaker 5: the body somewhere? Are we talking about how much they

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Speaker 5: brought into our life? So we're setting up a template

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Speaker 5: for what you have just gone through. So it's absolutely

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Speaker 5: quite normal. And remember they do puddle hopping in grief.

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Speaker 5: They'll do little pockets and then be sad and then

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Speaker 5: but of course we can't put it down. So does

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Speaker 5: that make some sense?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it would be hard to I mean,

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Speaker 4: and I'm only assuming this, Dannielle. If it was your mum,

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Speaker 4: the boys might know that this has caused their mama

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Speaker 4: lot of sadness.

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Speaker 7: And quite often yeah, and I.

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Speaker 4: Don't think that any child wants to see mum or dad.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so give them agency in that. So if you

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Speaker 5: see mom sad, grab the tissues you can get mummy

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Speaker 5: a drink of water, or you can come and sit

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Speaker 5: next to mummy and hold it, rather than mummy has

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Speaker 5: to hide in the bedroom, because then we're teaching them

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Speaker 5: how we bring comfort, and that's the agency we want

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Speaker 5: to teach all our children. Stay, go forward, because then

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Speaker 5: they're doing something that helps mummy feel better, rather than.

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Speaker 2: They can still talk to Nan.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, they can go up to and have a chat

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Speaker 3: to on their own.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yep, She's still in their lives and.

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Speaker 4: It's okay to be sad too. I think it's important

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Speaker 4: for them to see that you're sad to Danielle.

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Speaker 1: Don't feel about Dannielle. Thank you for sharing.

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Speaker 7: Thank you, thank you, that's been great. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Lisa's called through from Levington. Lisa a question for Maggie Dent.

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Speaker 8: Yes, Hi, thank you so much for taking my call.

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Speaker 5: Of course, So I'm.

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Speaker 8: Trying to get through this without being upset myself. My

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Speaker 8: husband has recently left myself and.

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Speaker 5: My middle child.

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Speaker 8: She's finding it very difficult. My daughter's school keeps calling

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Speaker 8: like once a week and so that she gets very

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Speaker 8: upset at school and that she's just crying like all day.

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Speaker 8: So he left a couple of months ago, and every

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Speaker 8: week I seen in the beginning of phone call that

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Speaker 8: she upset. I don't think she's hoping very well. Do

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Speaker 8: you have any advice on what, yeah, we should be doing.

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Speaker 5: So she's grieving too, isn't she right? Yeah, And so

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Speaker 5: we've got a we can do connection and that's almost

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Speaker 5: like having a death without a body, right. So he's

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Speaker 5: left and left this great big space. Yep. So one

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Speaker 5: of the things we talk about is if she can

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Speaker 5: have something that makes it feel her dad is close

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Speaker 5: to her even though he's not. So can you find

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Speaker 5: a really special photo and laminate it that's in her pocket?

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Speaker 5: Can he write a note if he has, you know,

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Speaker 5: he's not completely ostracized, that tells her how much he

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Speaker 5: loves her, that she can have with her so she

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Speaker 5: can check in on it during the day, because that's

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Speaker 5: at the moment, there's just this void and sadness, and

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Speaker 5: of course what happens in grief, we just want what

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Speaker 5: we had that we can't necessarily have. And of course

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Speaker 5: I'm wondering, does she do this at home with yours?

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Speaker 5: This is just because she's away from you as her

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Speaker 5: safe comforter. Is this someone in that school environment that

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Speaker 5: can become you by extension, we call it secondary attachment.

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Speaker 5: So if she feels sad, if it's not her teacher,

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Speaker 5: is there an aide, Is there a lady in the

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Speaker 5: front office, someone who can be the hugger and the

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Speaker 5: reassurer so that her nervous system can come down enough

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Speaker 5: that she doesn't need to be bursting into tears. She

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Speaker 5: can be sad and then still function. Are there any

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Speaker 5: of those suggestions might be helpful?

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Speaker 8: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Okay, do you still would he do that? Least? Do

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Speaker 2: you still have a relationship where he could leave a

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Speaker 2: note like that for her?

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Speaker 8: Yeah? He still speaks to the kids on FaceTime every night. Yeah,

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Speaker 8: and he has the kids two nights a week.

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Speaker 7: He's still there.

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Speaker 8: That like, you want to be part with me anymore?

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Speaker 8: And that it's just upsetting because she's an emotional person

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Speaker 8: like what I am, and then I can't be with

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Speaker 8: her at school when she's it's upset, and it breaks

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Speaker 8: my heart to hear that she's crying all day like

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Speaker 8: at all what we heard.

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Speaker 5: Of course, and we do know it will gradually gradually

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Speaker 5: get better.

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Speaker 1: Lisa, thank you so much, thank you.

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Speaker 8: Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 5: I appreciate that.

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Speaker 2: Can I get another Maggie h.

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Speaker 1: Three Maggie hugs.

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Speaker 3: So the new podcast The Good Enough Dad, with the

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00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,639
Speaker 3: first three episodes featuring Homers Blake, is out now. Listen

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00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 3: to it wherever you get your good podcast. We love you, Maggie,

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Speaker 3: you've been We've had a great relationship with you over

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Speaker 3: the years. We will continue that into the future. But

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Speaker 3: thank you for your time.

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Speaker 5: Love you guys, thanks to Meet and with Kate. Ritchie

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00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 5: is a Nova podcast. For more great comedy shows like this,

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00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 5: head to novapodcast dot com dot areu