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Speaker 1: Him, I Boris and this is straight talk. I'm about

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Speaker 1: to do a podcast with Anthony Miller. He's the CEO

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Speaker 1: of the Westpac Group, which encompasses a lot of banks.

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Speaker 1: I should make an initial disclosure. The disclosure is that

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Speaker 1: my company Yellow Big Road Group, of which I'm the

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Speaker 1: chairman of Made Shoulder, has a relationship with Westpac. They

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Speaker 1: are a warehouse provided to us in relation to our

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Speaker 1: own product with our global partner, which is Magneta, through

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Speaker 1: a business called Resi Homelands or the Resi product.

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Speaker 2: So that's a disclosure you need to make.

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Speaker 1: And I also will happily disclose that I've been maybe

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Speaker 1: forty year customer of Saint George Bank, right back from

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Speaker 1: the days it was building society right through today. It's

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Speaker 1: now sitting under the Westpac Group as still as a bank,

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Speaker 1: but using the Westpac Group's banking license. So that's my disclosure.

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Speaker 1: Other than that I have no relationship with Anthony. I

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Speaker 1: have many a couplications before, but.

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Speaker 2: In his capacity as a sea of a bank. So

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Speaker 2: look for to this podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty exciting, pretty cool to actually be able to

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Speaker 1: interview a CEO of one of the four b banks

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Speaker 1: in Australia and from my point of view, one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite banks.

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Speaker 2: Anthony Miller, well and straight talk.

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Speaker 3: Mate, thank you thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: This is pretty unusually it's a I find it as

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Speaker 1: quite an exciting opportunity to sit in front of a

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Speaker 1: someone who's the CEO of one of the largest banks

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Speaker 1: in this country. And of course, you know, for our audience,

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Speaker 1: you know, Australian banks are some of the most profitable

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Speaker 1: banks in the world by virtual market capitalization if you're

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Speaker 1: relative to that, and maybe that don't make the biggest

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Speaker 1: profits in the world, but they in a relative sense,

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Speaker 1: they are some of the most profitable banks in the

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Speaker 1: world and definitely some of the highest rated banks in

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 2: And you're sitting at the helm of Westpac.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely and I've been in the role two hundred and

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Speaker 3: sixteen days Mark, so enjoyed every single day so far.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty amazing.

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Speaker 1: I understand you come from fairly humble background. Maybe can

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Speaker 1: just tell me where's Anthony Miller come from?

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Speaker 2: Where we were born?

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Speaker 3: But sure so I was. I was born in Canberra

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Speaker 3: and for various reasons, we moved around a lot as

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Speaker 3: I grew up. So I lived in Canberra Darwin, Alice Springs, Doubo, Canberra, Brisbane,

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Speaker 3: and I finished high school in Brisbane. My last two

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Speaker 3: years of high school were in Brisbane. And so often

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Speaker 3: people think I'm a Queenslander, and I suppose two years

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Speaker 3: of high school and five years of UNI sort of

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Speaker 3: formative years, and certainly have a lot of affection for Queensland,

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Speaker 3: but I spent a lot of time outside Queensland growing up.

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Speaker 2: Under the state of origin rules. That doesn't qualify years

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Speaker 2: to Queensland, or does.

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Speaker 3: It not quite. The way it broke down is that

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Speaker 3: when State of Origin first came on in nineteen eighty,

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Speaker 3: I lived in New South Wales double Hoo, and I

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Speaker 3: was mad Keen Rugua League supporter and it was seared

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Speaker 3: in my memory that, you know, the frustrations that Queensline

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Speaker 3: just kept beating us for those first four or five

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Speaker 3: years until so they beaten But well that's right, and

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Speaker 3: they had some grades, you know Wally Lewis and you

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Speaker 3: know mountvin Ingram goodness, you know Eddie's Prime. So it

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Speaker 3: was almost impossible to win. And so therefore I'm a

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Speaker 3: little bit partial to see New South Wales competing state

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Speaker 3: of a blue shirt on yes, that's right. But I'm

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Speaker 3: a bit of a fan of the queens Land Red's

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Speaker 3: rugby team because I had the privilege to going to

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Speaker 3: school and people like Johnny Eels and guys like Mark

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Speaker 3: Connors that I knew from UNI all played for the Reds,

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Speaker 3: so I follow the Reds pretty closely. So so I'm

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Speaker 3: sort of a little bit of it each way.

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Speaker 2: Bet there, no, no, no, no, come on, come on,

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Speaker 2: come on, and no, no, you can't do that.

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Speaker 1: You can't do that too, which, Okay, which NRL team

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Speaker 1: do you follow?

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Speaker 3: Paramatta Eels deals And I've been with the Paramatta Eels

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Speaker 3: since nineteen seventy five when my dad sat me down

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Speaker 3: and said you can go for any team you want

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Speaker 3: as long as it's the Eels.

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Speaker 2: That's fairly democratic.

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Speaker 3: And then and then I was sport because in seventy

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Speaker 3: six they made the Grand Final. And then it just

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Speaker 3: felt like for me until I was about seventeen, that

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Speaker 3: every year the Paramatta Eels were either in the Grand

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Speaker 3: Final or just missed out on the Grand Final, or

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Speaker 3: won a Grand Final. And then since then, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's been pretty barren.

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Speaker 2: In terms of your fan brothers, sisters. What's the deal?

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Speaker 3: So I'm the ordest of six six kids, six kids. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so myself, then my two sisters and then three youngest,

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Speaker 3: three boys, six kids. Wow. Yeah, you know, it was

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Speaker 3: a really really lucky, you know, really good upbringing, a

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Speaker 3: great family. Mom and dad still going really strong. They're

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Speaker 3: still live. Yeah, absolutely, Wow, that's still going strong. We

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Speaker 3: celebrated dad's eightieth a couple of weeks ago. He's got well,

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Speaker 3: they've got six kids, and they've got twenty three grandchildren,

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Speaker 3: great grandchild.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And all fit, healthy, all all good people going after

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Speaker 3: life in the right way.

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Speaker 1: You have in your family, as I understand it, either

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Speaker 1: one or two brothers who were fairly decent with using

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Speaker 1: their hands.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So my one of my brothers, Paul, was a

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Speaker 3: great boxer. He represented Australia at the Sydney two thousand

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Speaker 3: Olympics and Manchester conwalf Games and he won a gold

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Speaker 3: medal a super middleweight in two thousand and so he

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Speaker 3: was a very good boxer. All my brothers they can

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Speaker 3: handle themselves pretty well, younger brothers, that's right. Yeah, So

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Speaker 3: I got to stay humble when I'm at home. And

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Speaker 3: and then one of my sisters. Both my sisters were

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Speaker 3: great sports persons and one of them won a gold

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Speaker 3: medal at the Sydney Olympics in water polo. Really yeah,

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Speaker 3: so they left me nothing in the gene covered in

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Speaker 3: terms of you know, they just all of them super

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Speaker 3: talented at sport and achieved so much.

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Speaker 2: Did you play sport?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I was a really enthusiastic swimmer, really swimmer. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I like I played all my sort of sports

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Speaker 3: at young football and AFL rugby league, rugby union. I

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Speaker 3: was really committed to being a swimmer, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I trained twice a day. I was trained with Joe

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Speaker 3: King at Leander in Brisbane. Hayley Lewis was one of them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so she was in the squad.

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Speaker 3: She was in the squad. Yeah. She was a terrific

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Speaker 3: swimmer and obviously represented Australia. I wanted to represent Australia,

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Speaker 3: just wasn't good enough.

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Speaker 1: But because a lot of swimmers in up playing water polo. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: is that how your sister's gone on a water polow.

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Speaker 3: I think a little bit of the influence was that

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Speaker 3: we were a mad keen swimming family and so at

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Speaker 3: the pool and good swimmers. I think Gail, you know,

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Speaker 3: my sister who was a water PLoP player. She could

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Speaker 3: have been a champion swimmer, could have been a champion

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Speaker 3: any sports. She is just such a natural athlete and

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Speaker 3: such a capable, hard working training kind of person, So

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Speaker 3: any sports she chose, I think she probably would have

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Speaker 3: succeeded in.

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Speaker 1: As a parent myself of a swimmer who was like

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Speaker 1: one of my sons was an elite swimmer. One of

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Speaker 1: the things I learned is about swimmers is that there's

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Speaker 1: a massive amount of commitment to the to the craft

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Speaker 1: and also for the parents for that matter too. What

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Speaker 1: do you think you've learned in a character sense from

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Speaker 1: a being a swimmer, but more importantly watching your parents

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Speaker 1: sort of adopt or adapt into the commitment of having

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Speaker 1: a son who wanted to be a swimmer.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, great, great question. I mean, in terms of summing,

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Speaker 3: I'm forever grateful that I was very committed to it,

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Speaker 3: and also the fact that I didn't get there. I

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Speaker 3: have no regrets because I trained really hard. I just

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Speaker 3: wasn't good enough. But I got so much out of

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Speaker 3: it in terms of friends, but also fitness, and also

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Speaker 3: just I knew how to set a goal and how

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Speaker 3: to relentlessly go.

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Speaker 1: After And maybe you could explain it a little bit

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Speaker 1: because most people probably haven't been to US. I haven't

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Speaker 1: had the experience of it. So your summer holidays was

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Speaker 1: committed to training when all you're made.

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Speaker 3: To do it all year round. So I swam all

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Speaker 3: year around, but the.

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Speaker 2: Trials were and a jenerary.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right through summer summer holidays. Five am in

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Speaker 3: the water, finished session seven, seven thirty in the morning,

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Speaker 3: wouldn't do much during the day. Then I'd train in

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Speaker 3: the afternoon. I'd be swimming anywhere between sort of ten

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Speaker 3: to fourteen kilimeters a day. I was really going for it.

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Speaker 3: What was this stroke? Look, breaststroke I wanted. I was

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Speaker 3: competitive as a breastroker. I tried pretty hard at individual

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Speaker 3: medally as well, but breastroke was my main sport, particularly

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Speaker 3: a main stroker.

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Speaker 2: And then you swim at minimum six days a week.

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Speaker 3: That's right, it'd be twice a day every day, and

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Speaker 3: then Saturday once this sad day.

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Speaker 1: So which means when your mates when you were fifteen

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Speaker 1: six and your mates is just starting to go to

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Speaker 1: movies or whatever together and you can't do that sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff because you're getting up four o'clock.

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Speaker 2: So you have to give a fair bit up. Is

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Speaker 2: it because you're the sort.

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Speaker 1: Of personality is that you were compliant as a because

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Speaker 1: I got four sons, only one that was any good

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Speaker 1: at this was the most compliant sun.

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Speaker 2: In other words, you never challenged me. Don't make it up.

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Speaker 2: We got to go.

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Speaker 1: Was it because you were a compliant kid, or was

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Speaker 1: it because you were a driven kid?

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Speaker 3: Or both? Well? Look, I think I think I was compliant.

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Speaker 3: I suppose you know, I like to think I was

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Speaker 3: a good boy, but I was driven. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 3: very focused on I had a goal. I wanted to

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Speaker 3: represent Australia. I trained twice a day. I trained really hard.

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Speaker 3: In some ways, I didn't trade smart. I trained hard

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Speaker 3: and without sort of nuance and you know, giving the

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Speaker 3: right things like rest and recovery, the right weight that

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Speaker 3: they deserved. But that was back in the mid to

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Speaker 3: late eighties where everyone thought you just just put the

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Speaker 3: miles in and you'll get there.

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Speaker 2: We're keeping log books in those days.

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Speaker 3: I kept a bit of a log of you know,

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Speaker 3: the sessions, but I didn't keep copious notes.

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Speaker 2: You weren't doing pulse rates and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, we were doing in training sessions and there

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Speaker 3: was a lot more science coming into if you were

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Speaker 3: coaching and swimming training then, and the Institute Sport had

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Speaker 3: been a big contributor to that sort of delivery of

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Speaker 3: science into it. But I was very focused on just

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Speaker 3: on the training, and I enjoyed the training. To be

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Speaker 3: honest with you that you know it was quite social.

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Speaker 1: It is you think not, but at the end of

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Speaker 1: a fifteen hundred have a little bit of a chat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactually right, and then look, you know I'm ad

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Speaker 3: at all boys school and then assuming cent training, there's

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Speaker 3: lots of girls, so that was also a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a wow. This is a bit of an interesting dynamic.

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Speaker 2: So what do you I mean?

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Speaker 1: I can I often ask my son, but he'll tell

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Speaker 1: me this. But what do you think you might have

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Speaker 1: gained in terms of character or your character from putting

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Speaker 1: in many kilomas in the pool, many early mornings, making

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Speaker 1: lots of sacrifices. Maybe they weren't sacrifices, but when you

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Speaker 1: look back in hindsight, had to make a call, what

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Speaker 1: do you think you might have gained in terms of

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Speaker 1: your character today in what you do at the bank

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Speaker 1: for example? And I don't mean anything specific, but how

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Speaker 1: how did that shape Anthony Miller today.

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Speaker 3: What I think? How would I? Yeah, that's again a

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Speaker 3: good challenge, certainly, the idea that you've just got to

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Speaker 3: sometimes go through a lot of hard work to get

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Speaker 3: the game, and that you know there's going to be

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Speaker 3: periods of time where it's just a real grind, and

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Speaker 3: that there there's not the sugarcoat of every day and

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Speaker 3: everything's positive always because you're just in the middle of

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Speaker 3: hard work, training hard you're for going going out with

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Speaker 3: your friends because you want to be able to train

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Speaker 3: at your best the next day. But then there's great

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Speaker 3: rewards at the end of it. And then equally, the

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Speaker 3: thing I enjoyed, I really liked your training. I like

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Speaker 3: the sense of, you know, putting one hundred percent in

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Speaker 3: and just feeling like you've exhausted yourself. And maybe it's perverse,

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Speaker 3: but I took satisfaction out of being a really hard

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Speaker 3: trainer and took great pride in that I was one

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Speaker 3: of the better trainers and the team. And then one

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Speaker 3: of the things I did learn was, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: all very well to be good and hard training, but

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Speaker 3: at that moment when you have to stand on the

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Speaker 3: block and compete in the race. You know, you've got

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Speaker 3: to have your head in the game. You've got to

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Speaker 3: be in that moment ready to deliver. And that's one

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Speaker 3: of the other great challenges of assuming, is that you

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Speaker 3: can train for six months through summer and then you've

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Speaker 3: got two and a half minutes to win, and your

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Speaker 3: entire summers defined by two and a half minutes.

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Speaker 2: In the last race of this it could be one

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Speaker 2: hundred exactly right.

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Speaker 3: And you know if you don't get everything perfectly right

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Speaker 3: in the race, you know someone can beat you. And

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Speaker 3: so you know you have to be so focused on

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Speaker 3: am I doing it all? Am I doing it all right?

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Speaker 3: Am I getting it all done? And so that sort

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Speaker 3: of constant challenge of is this right? Am I really

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Speaker 3: pushing myself as I should? Have I done everything as

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Speaker 3: I should That constant challenge you imposed on yourself is

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Speaker 3: sort of like a skill that's really helpful later on

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Speaker 3: in whatever you decide to do. So I sort of

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Speaker 3: feel like assuming that I was pretty privileged to be

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Speaker 3: able to be a swimmer. I thought it really did

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Speaker 3: give me a lot of opportunities and also the fitness

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Speaker 3: and health consequences of just being able to swim ten

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Speaker 3: to fourteen kilometers a day sets you up for life.

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Speaker 2: I think that's right in a health sense.

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Speaker 1: And I think also you've got to have at least

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Speaker 1: one parent who's completely committed to that process for the kid,

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Speaker 1: because it's actually quite when I look back, it's all

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Speaker 1: encompassing being a parent of a swimmer in the end.

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Speaker 1: For me, like I was happy to get my kid

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Speaker 1: of a car and get when he got his license

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Speaker 1: so he could at least get himself at training at

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Speaker 1: four thirty in the morning.

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Speaker 2: If I then say to.

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Speaker 1: You today in terms of your job of the bank,

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Speaker 1: and by the way, Westpac sits on a number of banks,

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Speaker 1: well they're not. There's not a number of banks, but

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Speaker 1: there's a number of brands, that's right. So you know

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Speaker 1: you've got Saint George, that's right, your bank essays, a

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Speaker 1: bank essays Bank of Melbourne and Bank of Melbourne and

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Speaker 1: anyone else.

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Speaker 3: And so in terms of bank or bank like offerings.

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Speaker 3: RAMS also has its own system as well. So what

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Speaker 3: really Westpac is an amalgam of you know, different banks

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Speaker 3: sitting under the one group that is Westpac Group. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and so it's really actually a collection of banks within

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Speaker 3: the group.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and they all talk to different customers and they

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Speaker 1: talk to different emotions from different sorts of customers. Like

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Speaker 1: Bank of Melbourne is very Melbourne, Yes, Saint George is

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Speaker 1: sort of not so much Melbourne's Sydney, more Sydney than

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Speaker 1: anything else. I think, you know traditionally, because I remember

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Speaker 1: Sir George about I was a customer of Saint George

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Speaker 1: Building Society, Are you okay? And I went through every

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Speaker 1: and then Saint George Building Society merged with another credit

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Speaker 1: union or building society. Come overhood it was, and then

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Speaker 1: they then ultimately it became St. George Bank, and then

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Speaker 1: Saint George Bank was taken over under Gail Kelly by Westpac.

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Speaker 1: That's well taken control by Westpak and now as a

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Speaker 1: result that I'm now with Westpak, but I'm still with

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Speaker 1: St George. But I know it's sitting on the west

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Speaker 1: Bank brand. And as a as someone's sitting on top

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Speaker 1: of such a it's a large group.

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Speaker 2: What do you would you say that.

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Speaker 1: The event Isswen, lots of other things happened in your

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Speaker 1: life will talk about at a moment, but were they

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Speaker 1: do they build resilience? View? Because like as a bank boss,

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine I think you'd be putting a bushfires

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Speaker 1: a lot. I mean there'd be a lot of dramas,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like within the bank or maybe didn't you

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Speaker 1: come in you came in after west PAC's major drama,

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Speaker 1: the drama that sort of occurred during after nineteen twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 3: I think, yeah, no, certainly. I joined Westpac at the

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Speaker 3: end of twenty twenty and that was just in that

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Speaker 3: sort of a difficult twelve months where you know, there

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Speaker 3: was obviously infractions under the money laundering and OSTRAK matter,

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Speaker 3: and then there was quite a bit of work that

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Speaker 3: Westpac as a group had to do, which was you know,

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Speaker 3: fixed or immediate processes, and so for a few years

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Speaker 3: there it was very you know, very much focused on getting.

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Speaker 2: Its house in order. We're doing it fifteen hundreds.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right, and so that was just that's just

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Speaker 3: hard work, grinding way that's right, and more importantly, it's

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Speaker 3: just getting back to the basics and making sure the

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Speaker 3: way we deliver products and service to the customers were

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Speaker 3: done at a standard that met community and regulatory expectations.

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Speaker 3: And so you know, the bank did a lot of

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Speaker 3: work on that, and that was also while challenging, also

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Speaker 3: quite enjoyable in the sense of just you know, as

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Speaker 3: a leadership team, all of us at the time just

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Speaker 3: very focused on how do we just get Westpac the

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Speaker 3: group back to where it should be, which is, you know,

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Speaker 3: a really good bank, performing well and delivering for customers.

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Speaker 1: And share holders, which, by the way, I'll come back

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Speaker 1: to the customer shareholder thing, because that's a hard one

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Speaker 1: to balance. Well, there's a balance, but it's a difficult one.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about how you do that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if I just go back to you left school and

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Speaker 1: what did you do.

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Speaker 3: So I finished school in eighty seven and I went

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Speaker 3: to university and I did a degree at the time,

349
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Speaker 3: which was a little bit unusual. And you might remember

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Speaker 3: the late eighties, Japan was the second largest colony world

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Speaker 3: had just come out of nowhere through the seventies and eighties,

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Speaker 3: and Japan was buying everything in Queensland. It just felt

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Speaker 3: like tourists exactly right.

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Speaker 2: So it was a massive development and everything, Yesdney as well, okay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well certainly in Queensland. And so when I finished school,

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Speaker 3: I suppose you know, my father had studied law, so

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Speaker 3: I was a little bit drawn to I'll study law.

358
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Speaker 3: But I decided to do an arts law degree, and

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Speaker 3: it was the first time it had been offered. There

360
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Speaker 3: was only eleven of us in the first class. And

361
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Speaker 3: it was a combination of Asian studies majoring in Japanese

362
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Speaker 3: language and some other so that's the outside of it.

363
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,159
Speaker 3: That's the outside of it, plus a law degree. And

364
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Speaker 3: the law degree was at QUT and the Arts or

365
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,199
Speaker 3: Asian Studies degree was at griff of the University. So

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Speaker 3: the two universities had combined and so to be sort

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Speaker 3: of like Monday at QUT Tuesday at Griffith or vice versa.

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Speaker 2: And they were physical in those days.

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Speaker 3: Exactly right, quite two different campuses, one in the city,

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Speaker 3: one out at sort of Mount Gravat. So that was

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Speaker 3: a really interesting combination. And so I went after that.

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Speaker 3: And my intention was when I finished that degree that

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Speaker 3: I'd probably go and pursue, you know what it calls,

374
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Speaker 3: like a career, perhaps working in Japan, or I'd go

375
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Speaker 3: and study further in Japan.

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Speaker 1: And as it turned out, that didn't eventuate. Did you

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Speaker 1: learn to speak Japanese?

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Speaker 3: I study Japanese, that's right. I would say my Japanese

379
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Speaker 3: is poor, you know, one of the one of the

380
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Speaker 3: challenges is that once you study languages, you've got to

381
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Speaker 3: go and live and immerse yourself in the culture. And

382
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Speaker 3: I didn't get to do that straight after university and

383
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Speaker 3: so missed my window to really cement the language. But then,

384
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Speaker 3: as it turns out, through my career later on, I

385
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,120
Speaker 3: was in Japan a lot for business. I really enjoyed

386
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Speaker 3: working in Japan, and I had teams reporting to me

387
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,960
Speaker 3: out of Japan, so I've had a lot of exposure

388
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Speaker 3: to Japan over the course the last thirty years.

389
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Speaker 2: So did you ever practice as a lawyer?

390
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Speaker 3: So I did. I finished university and I was a

391
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,359
Speaker 3: bit unsure about where I was going to go, and

392
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Speaker 3: I was actually playing a little bit of rugby at

393
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Speaker 3: Brothers Rugby Club in Britain, and a guy called Paul

394
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Speaker 3: Tully and another guy who was working at the law

395
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,640
Speaker 3: firm Grand Deal Love encouraged me to join their law firm.

396
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Speaker 3: So I joined their law firm for a couple of years,

397
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Speaker 3: which was great because I was sort of unsure about

398
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Speaker 3: what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go,

399
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,720
Speaker 3: and they gave me an opportunity just to work for

400
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,080
Speaker 3: a couple of years qualify as a lawyer. And I

401
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,800
Speaker 3: did that and that was that was that was great times.

402
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:51,119
Speaker 2: As a young lawyer.

403
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Speaker 1: Did I guess you just again put just wim me

404
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 1: hot on and you know, you just have to grind away,

405
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,639
Speaker 1: do sixteen hours a day, get paid crappy money.

406
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Speaker 2: Do do they do college law in quis? How does

407
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:01,320
Speaker 2: it work?

408
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 3: No? No, you could do that, but back then it

409
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 3: was an article class. You're an article class because you're

410
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 3: at the bottom of the food chain. And in some

411
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 3: ways that was also, in hindsight, a great thing because

412
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,680
Speaker 3: I had to do lots of menial jobs as well

413
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,679
Speaker 3: as you know, potentially some of the more interesting legal

414
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,920
Speaker 3: and so you just get into work and you start

415
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 3: from scratch and you just work. And the idea of

416
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 3: just having to do hard work and eventually things will

417
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 3: come your way was sort of like, well, okay, I

418
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,160
Speaker 3: understood that, you know, I grew up on that premise,

419
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 3: and so I really enjoyed it and I got a

420
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Speaker 3: lot out of that. And then what had happened was,

421
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:39,959
Speaker 3: you know, they were very good to me, and I

422
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 3: was enjoying what I was doing there, and I got

423
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:47,720
Speaker 3: married and had a wonderful I had first baby, very

424
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 3: very early, and I sort of sat back and forward.

425
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 3: Do you want to be in a lawyer in Brisbane? Now?

426
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,680
Speaker 3: Is this? Is this why I studied art law? Is

427
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 3: this what I thought I was going to do? And

428
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 3: the answer was, actually, I think I want to go

429
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,479
Speaker 3: and look out for more and try something else. And

430
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,480
Speaker 3: so as a result of that decision, I applied for

431
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 3: a job and I got a job here in Sydney

432
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 3: with Mallison's, you know, the big law firm, and that

433
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 3: was very gracious so then to give me a chance.

434
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 3: And I went from sort of a small suburban, you know,

435
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 3: small highly specialized firm in Brisbane that's really actually bossomed

436
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 3: since since that time, to Mallison's very large firm in Sydney.

437
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 3: And I was put into the banking and finance practice,

438
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,200
Speaker 3: which I hadn't worked in before, and I was assigned

439
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,680
Speaker 3: to a team. And the partner who I worked for,

440
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 3: he was really tough, but he was really good for

441
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,359
Speaker 3: me in the sense that in what way well he

442
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,920
Speaker 3: was just so demanding and exacting in terms of accuracy

443
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,520
Speaker 3: and detail and work. And I think that was really

444
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 3: good for me because it just set a bar immediately.

445
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 3: You've got to be at this standard if you're going

446
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 3: to prosper in this place. And you know, that was great,

447
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 3: and I just put my head down and I just

448
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 3: I just worked my way through that.

449
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,640
Speaker 2: Again. Well yeah, I just kept going.

450
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,200
Speaker 3: And I just and by and after a period of time,

451
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 3: excuse me, he he was incredibly gracious and generous to me,

452
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,719
Speaker 3: allowing me to do more and more and gave me

453
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,880
Speaker 3: a lot more run of the place. And I saw

454
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 3: some magnificent partners who I was just so impressed with

455
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,680
Speaker 3: how they handled and conducted themselves. It just really lifted

456
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 3: me up and asked me to, you know, think about

457
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,239
Speaker 3: the kind of person I want to be, the kind

458
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 3: of professional I want to be in the standard I

459
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 3: need to set myself. And so I got a lot

460
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 3: out of that. And in working at that law firm,

461
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 3: I had some exposure to various banks and then eventually

462
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,679
Speaker 3: I moved to one of those banks, and that's how

463
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,879
Speaker 3: I went from law into finance effects.

464
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 1: So a lot of people don't realize that there are

465
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 1: in those big law firms like Mallicon's. I mean most

466
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 1: of them think of it was a bit of a factory.

467
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: But and it just greet.

468
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 2: Me if I'm wrong. We're talking about the early nineties.

469
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 3: This was ninety six. I came to Sydney into ninety six.

470
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: So a firm like Mallison's, they're probably already merged with

471
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 1: Stephen Jakeson.

472
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 2: That's Malison Stephen and and now they're now something else.

473
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 1: But but they got so big relatively speaking, at the

474
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 1: time it was the market was dominated by them and

475
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 1: two or three out the law firms in terms of size,

476
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: and they got all the big jobs. Yes, the big

477
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 1: banks that the big work. You would have been in

478
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 1: one of the big four law firms. Does that does

479
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 1: that somehow inform you as to or does that how

480
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: to somehow shape you as to your future career that

481
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: you end up in one of the big four banks

482
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 1: you were one of the big you were at the

483
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 1: big investment banks too prior to that, or the big

484
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 1: foreign banks who were very active here in Australia. We'll

485
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: talk about that in a second. Does do you think

486
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: that has some impact on your career path? Did you

487
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 1: say to yourself, Look, I've always been a a I've

488
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: experienced at a big law firm. I've now been experienced

489
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 1: at the big non re tail banks here in Australia

490
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 1: and let's call maw it was deutsch Bank and whose

491
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: gold missacks. Yeah, so globally two of the biggest banks,

492
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: particularly Deutsche and the US and in terms of certain

493
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 1: areas anyway, did that start to make you think this

494
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 1: is the source of environment we've got to stick to

495
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: or did you ever.

496
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 3: Think to someone?

497
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: Wouldn't I going back to a small local law firm

498
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 2: like the one in Brisbane?

499
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 3: Oh no. So so when I got to Mallison's and

500
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 3: you know, I really enjoyed my time there, and I

501
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 3: really enjoyed as I got to do more, and I

502
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 3: really and what.

503
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 2: Was it you enjoyed though about it?

504
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 3: Well, they're all high quality people and who were every day,

505
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 3: you know, going hard at it.

506
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 2: Your colleagues or the colleagues.

507
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 3: Colleagues above and below and around. So it was a

508
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 3: very sort of performed kind of environment.

509
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: Yea.

510
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,239
Speaker 3: And it was really interesting and you know, big end

511
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 3: of town kind of works. That was quite for a young,

512
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 3: impressionable guy from Brisbane. It was like, wow, yeah, this

513
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 3: is exciting, and so I really enjoyed it. It was

514
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 3: also the case that I never really had any plans.

515
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 3: I never I sort of oh, that's really good. I'm

516
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 3: going to try that. And I ended up going into finance,

517
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,959
Speaker 3: for example, by accident. I didn't start with that initiative.

518
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 3: But then I had a conversation with Credit Sweese and

519
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 3: they said, oh, you know, I want you. You know,

520
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 3: we're looking for a lawyer. Want you join us? And

521
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,479
Speaker 3: I joined it as an in house lawyer, and then

522
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 3: I moved into banking quickly thereafter. And it was because

523
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 3: they said I want you to try this, and I said, yeah, okay,

524
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 3: I'll try that. I was never sitting back and saying

525
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 3: here's my plan. I'm going to work in a big

526
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 3: four law firm. Then I'm going to move into a

527
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 3: big investment bank, and then I just never had it

528
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 3: mapped out in my head. And in some respects I

529
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 3: was just enjoying.

530
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 2: The play was in front of you, exactly what, And

531
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 2: I really.

532
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 3: Enjoyed the people and working and the intensity required. And

533
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 3: then as I got into that, and you're competing hard

534
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 3: to perform and deliver, people then graciously and generously give

535
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: you opportunities, or at least I was in that respect.

536
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 3: And so that's how my career developed was without design,

537
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 3: It was just developed as a result of just people

538
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 3: giving me a chance at things, and I decided, yeah,

539
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 3: I'll try that, and I'll try that.

540
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: And so it's funny you should say this, because I

541
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 1: wondered to myself, is Anthony Miller's propensity and preparedness to

542
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: work hard and work with intensity and all those things

543
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 1: you're talking about? Then? Is that something that was socially

544
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 1: formed on him by putting him through swimming regimes or

545
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: is that something that his personality always was going to

546
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: do and when he ended up going to work, he

547
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: was actually had the propensity and the preparedness to do it.

548
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 3: So I think there were three forces. One is definitely swimming,

549
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 3: you know, trainee experience, experiences, I know I can do

550
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 3: it exactly. And then I think I was a little

551
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 3: bit built that way. And then fairly my parents work.

552
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 3: They worked hard, they put a hundred percent in, and

553
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 3: I was never It was always clear to me, It

554
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 3: was always clear to all my brothers and sisters that

555
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 3: Mum and Dad were working really hard and they worked

556
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 3: really hard to make sure we had opportunities, and there

557
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 3: was no way I was ever going to let them

558
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 3: down by not having one hundred percent effort into whatever

559
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 3: we did or whatever goal or whatever opportunity was given

560
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 3: to me, I was always going to give it one

561
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 3: hundred percent and do whatever it took. And I sort

562
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 3: of like, almost I felt an obligation to make sure

563
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 3: that if I was going to do something, I was

564
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 3: going to do it really well, because how could I

565
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 3: look Mum and Dad in the eye and not have

566
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 3: put one hundred percent into something like a sense of duty,

567
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 3: a sense of duty, sense of obligation. But that's only

568
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 3: because they work so hard and they you know, we

569
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 3: didn't have a lot, but we wanted for nothing when

570
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 3: we were growing up, and the eldest six kids and

571
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 3: everyone was given a real good school. Everyone was given

572
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 3: any sport opportunity they wanted to pursue they could, and

573
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 3: you know, you've got swimmers, footballers, boxes, water pilot players,

574
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 3: any sport anywhere. Mom and Dad would take whoever it

575
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 3: was to that sport and then back them one hundred percent.

576
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 3: And so I think we all felt an obligation to,

577
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 3: you know, work hard and take every opportunity and give

578
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 3: it one hundred percent. So I think there's three forces.

579
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 3: I think the assuming definitely think a little bit of

580
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: my own personality and DNA and then clearly that obligation

581
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 3: or responsibility to mom and dad.

582
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: Do you have any memories of any one particular individual

583
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: who was a great mentor to you outside your parents

584
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: at work in either the law firm or Creswiz or

585
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: gold Misax or at Deutsche, was there someone who sort

586
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: of took you under their wing and said, you know,

587
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try and this kid along. Yeah.

588
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 3: Look, I think I was I was lucky in particularly

589
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 3: in my career, that there's been a few people who

590
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 3: took some interest in me and just gave me a

591
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 3: little bit of extra coaching and insights. And there was

592
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 3: a I was working for one partner at Mallison's, a

593
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 3: guy called Michael Gammons who was very good to me,

594
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 3: and he was really really fixated on accuracy and detail

595
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 3: and that helped me improve and I improved a lot

596
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 3: as a professional and as an individual. And there was

597
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 3: another partner in the law firm who had a big

598
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 3: impact on me, and he didn't probably didn't realize it.

599
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 3: And I did catch up with him on a few

600
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 3: occasions after I'd left the law firm and shared this

601
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 3: with him. And he passed away on here a couple

602
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 3: of years ago, and his name was John Stumbles, and

603
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 3: he was the sort of senior partner in the banking

604
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 3: and finance practice. And he was such a nice, decent guy,

605
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: incredibly thoughtful and compassionate and incredibly driven, but just so classy.

606
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: And I just every time I saw him in action

607
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 3: and every time he spoke, I thought, Gee, this guy

608
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 3: is so impressive. And then he started to just give

609
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 3: me a little bit of coaching and a little bit

610
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,719
Speaker 3: of encouragement, and he'd sort of pulled me inside and say, look,

611
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 3: you know, as you're doing this work, i'd be you know,

612
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 3: think about this as you deliver yourself into that meeting Anthony,

613
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 3: or would be mindful of the fact that this is

614
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 3: what people will be looking for. And so I was

615
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 3: very grateful for that coaching from a guy who had

616
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: I had put on a pedestal because he was just

617
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 3: so classy and so good at what he did. So

618
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 3: I was lucky there. And then when I joined Goldman's

619
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 3: there was a couple of people there who, again, you know,

620
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 3: it's a highly high intensity, high performance environment, and a

621
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 3: couple of people took the time out to give me

622
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 3: feedback and sort of highlight what my strength is or

623
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 3: what my weakness is and what I should work on,

624
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 3: and so I was very grateful for that.

625
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 2: That's interesting you should say that, particularly that as a

626
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 2: younger man in a law firm impressed with somebody's let's

627
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 2: call it kindness and generalists because generally speaking, the sort.

628
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 3: Of more.

629
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: Maybe he's incorrect, but the more accepted proposition of someone

630
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: who's very, very successful in an organization like a big

631
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: firm is that you have to be a bit of

632
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: a bugger to get up there, you know, like you

633
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: have to be tough and mean and all those sorts

634
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: of things. When someone like you says that they were

635
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: impressed as a younger man with someone who actually played

636
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: good qualities kindness, gentleness, but also constructive criticism, how much

637
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: of that have you taken away from that and put

638
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: into your cell phone what you do now?

639
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's again a good sort of challenge. Like

640
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 3: I'm incredibly driven, I think in the business today, that's right.

641
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 3: I'm very I'm very competitive. I want to win, but

642
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 3: I don't want to win unfairly. I don't want to

643
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 3: have an unfair advantage and win. I want to I

644
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 3: want everyone to have the same opportunity and you know,

645
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 3: competing in a race, it's no good if you're given

646
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 3: every advantage and the others have no such chance to compete.

647
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 3: It's not really a racist.

648
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: You're talking about internally.

649
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:47,239
Speaker 3: Now that's internally, that's externally. But you know, competing. I

650
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 3: do enjoy competing and I do enjoy winning. But equally,

651
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 3: if I've tried my best and I wasn't good enough,

652
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 3: then so be it. And so therefore, you know, you

653
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 3: can and should be able to be an effective executive

654
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 3: and an effective leader, and things like making sure everyone

655
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 3: is fairly treated, making sure everyone is heard, going out

656
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: a way to help someone who's a little bit less

657
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 3: fortunate in opportunities in the office or opportunities where it

658
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: might be seems to me to be like something that

659
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 3: absolutely should be allowed and should be endorsed and should

660
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 3: be accepted. And that doesn't mean you can't be compassionate,

661
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 3: which I think is really important and really important virtues

662
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 3: to be compassionate, but compassionate and thoughtful, but also really

663
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 3: demanding of yourself and then also able to then say

664
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 3: to other people, let's lift your standard. And asking someone

665
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 3: to lift their standard is not unfair inappropriate. If you're

666
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: a person who's thoughtful, compassionate, understanding and prepared to the

667
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 3: same as I did the same. And so I suppose

668
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 3: so with that.

669
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: Leadership by example, I think I think.

670
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 3: It's a little bit of that. Yeah, I think also,

671
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 3: you know, and I think about leadership and what I

672
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 3: have to do at the bank, there's an element of

673
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 3: leadership and we're going in this direction. Equally, as a leader,

674
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 3: I've also got a responsibility to make sure people have

675
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 3: the best opportunity to improve and develop and grow. And

676
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 3: so leadership is a little bit of service as well.

677
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 3: You know, it's not as a leader that's your reward

678
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 3: and look at you and everyone needs to do what

679
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 3: you say. But actually, no, I'm a leader and my

680
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 3: job is to then help everyone prosper, everyone progress, everyone improve.

681
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 3: And so I think that sort of leadership where it's

682
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 3: anchored around you know, look at this dominant personality and

683
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 3: look at how successful they are, and there's this idea

684
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 3: that they're a bit of a bugger and they're a

685
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 3: bit hard nosed. No, I'm not interested in that. I'm

686
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: much more focused on that leader who we're here to deliver.

687
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 3: We're going to win, but we're going to do it

688
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 3: together and what can I do to help you to

689
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 3: contribute to where we've got to get to as a team.

690
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 3: So that's how I think about it. That's how I

691
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: try and balance it.

692
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,239
Speaker 1: We often say, I mean, you would remember this from

693
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: when your brother was boxing styles wind fights, so you

694
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: you know, in a long version, then you try to

695
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: describe your style. But let's say, as a leader, what

696
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: would how would you describe it in a shorter version, like,

697
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: you know, how would you describe yourself as a leader?

698
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: There therefore as a leader, like the way you lead

699
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: the bank, because you know how many stuff you got,

700
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: like how many people in the group.

701
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 3: We've got just under thirty eight thousand in the group.

702
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 3: You're not sort of looking at.

703
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: Let's call it the latest people have been employed in

704
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: the last eight hundred or something, and you're not sort

705
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: of talking to each on them.

706
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:39,959
Speaker 2: That's impossible.

707
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: So you've got to build leadership teams as well below you.

708
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 1: So do you build leadership teams as a leader that

709
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: follow your style of leadership? I mean, do you sort

710
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: of self select or do people self select based on you?

711
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: You do you do you pick people in your own

712
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: image as a leader?

713
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 3: Good? Good question, I think I think it's all a

714
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 3: little bit of all of the above, if I can

715
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 3: answer it that way, which is, you know, what I'm

716
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 3: very focused on at Westpac, and what's really important to

717
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: me is I want a team, a leadership team, because

718
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 3: I think a great team is always going to be

719
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 3: so much more successful. So what I'm really focused on

720
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 3: is an executive team who have great teamwork, have each

721
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 3: other's backs, clear on what we collectively are going after

722
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 3: where we want to take this bank. What I've also

723
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 3: been focused on, for example, as I've brought people into

724
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 3: the executive team, is making sure that other executives got

725
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 3: an opportunity to meet and to interview those perspective candidates.

726
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 3: Not just your call that's exactly right. I want us

727
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 3: to say, is this a team member. We want part

728
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,439
Speaker 3: of our team who will commit and share with us

729
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 3: both the challenge and the upside of what we want

730
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 3: to go after. And so I've been very focused on that.

731
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 3: And what's been very interesting to me is that you know,

732
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 3: we've got a goal we want to take Westpac, but equally,

733
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 3: the executives who've joined us and who want to join us,

734
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 3: and as we build this right across the bank, everyone

735
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 3: wants to join a team. They want to be part

736
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 3: of a team. That is what we are focused on

737
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 3: and what we're trying to create. And so that's been

738
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 3: really really invigorating and encouraging to see that kind of response.

739
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: Because like, you know that you have a limited pool

740
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: where to choose your executive team out of. I mean,

741
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: unless you bring him in from over sous, perhaps you are.

742
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: But let's say we're just looking at the Australian landscape

743
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: and that you know the people who are available for

744
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: a spot that you need to fill based on what

745
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: you want your leadership to to look like. Sometimes you

746
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 1: have to go and see who's out there in the marketplace,

747
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: Like we're doing Rabia League at least time, but the

748
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: rooster is we're always finding you know, who someone fits

749
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: into our system. Yeah, but because you know, someone could

750
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: be a great player, have all the talent in the

751
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 1: world for a particular spot position, could be sand a wing, whatever,

752
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,919
Speaker 1: But unless they fit into our system, won't we won't

753
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: employ Our system has a lot to do with character, style,

754
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: et cetera. Is that something you get an opportunity to

755
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: do at a bank like yours, Because I've noticed I

756
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: saw on the paper today that someone's left one of

757
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: the big banks is coming over to join you guys.

758
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, so how do you do To use that analogy,

759
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 3: I sometimes use this description of you know, let's get

760
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 3: the right athletes in the right seats, but we've got

761
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 3: to have it. It's got to be a team. And

762
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 3: we've got some exceptional talent at Westpac, and so it's

763
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 3: been a real pleasure and delightful to see and elevate

764
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 3: some of them and have them promoted and you can

765
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 3: see just outstanding performance. But there's definitely been a couple

766
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 3: instances where we thought, you know what, it's probably appropriate

767
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 3: just to bring in someone who can bring a little

768
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 3: bit of more open minded thinking or some different thinking

769
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 3: into the team. And so that's why we have recruited

770
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 3: a couple of external executives, and we will continue to

771
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 3: always look at the talent of the internally and externally

772
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 3: is to make those decisions. But the number one rule

773
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 3: or discipline I've been focused on is making sure that

774
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 3: they will work as a team and they will fit

775
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 3: in with the team, which is why, you know, having

776
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 3: other executives help in the decision as to who we

777
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 3: wanted to bring in and why is in my mind

778
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 3: pretty important.

779
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: But in your game, do you have like understood or

780
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: agreed anti poaching rules? I mean, I mean, like how

781
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: do you find these people? Or do you meet them

782
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: at a function? Or do really good question this dude's

783
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: good or that girl's great. Yeah, let's go for us.

784
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: So look at a couple of things. I mean, obviously

785
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 3: we have recruitment firms that help us at the market.

786
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 3: I do think it's my responsibility as a leader and

787
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 3: any leader of any bank, and I certainly see the

788
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 3: leaders of Westpact their job is to constantly understand the

789
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 3: quality of the team they have, the quality of the

790
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 3: talent out they're in the marketplace, and to be constantly

791
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 3: asking themselves, have I've got the balance right? Are we delivering?

792
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 3: And constantly testing and challenging as to whether it's working

793
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 3: and working as it should and making sure that the

794
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 3: team's performing. And equally, have you got the right people

795
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 3: in the right seats with the right ability and attitude

796
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 3: to deliver? And so and so Therefore you know that

797
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 3: idea of finding talent is if you will, probably my

798
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 3: number one job description retaining and investing in people is

799
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 3: probably really my number one job description. And then all

800
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 3: the leaders in the bank have that same obligation, which is,

801
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 3: we've got to make sure we've got the best talent,

802
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 3: We've got the best people on the best seats. And

803
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 3: if I think about banking and where we are today, Mark,

804
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 3: and you think about the world in which we operate,

805
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 3: you know, more and more it's going to be automated

806
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 3: more and more. It's digital. Ninety six percent of what

807
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 3: people do with Westpac is digital. And then you think

808
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 3: about the regulator who says, I want you to be

809
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 3: the same. I don't want you to have more risk

810
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 3: appetite in one area versus another bank that ain't like that.

811
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 3: So and then you put something like AI over the

812
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 3: top of it, and what you have is everything's becoming

813
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 3: much more homogenized and so it's being driven to be

814
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 3: the same. And so therefore, how are we going to

815
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 3: be different and how am I going to differentiate Westpac

816
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 3: in the marketplace? And it's going to be back to

817
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 3: the future. It's your people and how good they are,

818
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 3: and more importantly, the discretionary effort they bring in every

819
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 3: day and the way they feel trusted and empowered and supported.

820
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 3: That's where we've got to go. And that's why I'm

821
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 3: very focused on how I build a team and how

822
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 3: that team then leads the company, and how everyone in

823
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 3: the company understands we've got your back, because the way

824
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 3: we're going to win is by having the best people

825
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 3: with the best in work environment, giving us their best

826
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 3: every day.

827
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 2: So what is a win for you, Anthony?

828
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: So, like in other words, who are your stakeholders mean

829
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: a broad a sort of group of stakeholders, But who

830
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: are your stakeholders? And what is it that most of

831
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: them are looking for? They're looking for, you know, the

832
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: profit cash profit you're going to report. Are they looking for,

833
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: you know, a share price or what.

834
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 2: Are they looking for?

835
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 3: And so our goal is a number one and I'm

836
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 3: just number one in what regard number one? And so

837
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 3: that's exactly right. It doesn't mean it's the largest. And

838
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 3: what I'm looking for is that, you know, from a

839
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 3: customer customer service proposition, everyone goes, gee, they're the number one,

840
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 3: and we're not there at the moment. There's some pockets

841
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 3: of the bank which are number one in customer metrics,

842
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 3: et cetera, but we're not universally where we need to be,

843
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 3: and so we're after that. So that's our goal. I

844
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 3: don't think you can be number one unless you have

845
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 3: the best employee proposition. So I want to be the place,

846
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 3: and I want to create an environment worst pac and

847
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 3: we have a great environment, great people, but I want

848
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 3: it to be the number one place that people want

849
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 3: to work. So I want to create the number one

850
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 3: employee proposition and people come to work. And if you've

851
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 3: got the best people coming to work, giving their best

852
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 3: every day, then that underwrits your ability to provide that

853
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 3: customer outcome, that outcome that you want, which is number

854
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 3: one customer. If I get those two right, then I

855
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 3: think what I do is I deliver the right return

856
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 3: to shareholders and that's that consistence, sustainable growing return to

857
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 3: shareholder in terms of dividend and obviously share price growth.

858
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 3: And so that's the other element of what I think

859
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 3: is number one. And we need to deliver better return

860
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 3: on equity. We need to deliver better cost income ratio.

861
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 3: Those are all if you will indicators, and if we

862
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 3: can get those right, then I think that will If

863
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 3: you will allow us to claim and be recognized as

864
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 3: number one, doesn't mean we're the largest. It doesn't also

865
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 3: necessarily mean we're always the most profitable. But we are

866
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: getting that balance right customer, employee and shareholder, and if

867
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 3: I get that right, then we will be number one.

868
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: Do you see the regulator as a stakeholder because the

869
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 1: regular represent Australia absolutely, and so because we give you,

870
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: we give you a license. When I say we, Australia

871
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: has given you a license to be, to be, to

872
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: take deposits and to be what they call an adi

873
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: or a bank so to speak. And the Regulator is

874
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: the policeman around this sort of stuff. Policemen also, but

875
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: I'm not as not that bad as more they do

876
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: a lot of other things as well.

877
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 2: Now they stakeholder representing.

878
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 3: All of us. I think that's right. I mean, I

879
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 3: would you know, in the context of if I'm going

880
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 3: to be number one in terms of customer service, I've

881
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 3: got to need a standard. I've got an obligation to

882
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 3: the community and to the regulator in terms of how

883
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 3: to deliver our services. So I feel it's entwined if

884
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 3: I'm going to be number one in that customer proposition

885
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 3: that I'm providing that I'm absolutely viewed by the regulator

886
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 3: and by the community in the same way that I'm

887
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 3: meeting those standards that I need to meet because you're

888
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 3: absolutely right, you know, a license to operate a bank

889
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 3: as a bank is a privilege and we need to

890
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 3: and do recognize it as such, and so therefore need

891
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 3: to make sure and everything we do we meet the

892
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 3: standards that the regulator stroke community expects of us.

893
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 1: So many many years ago, and I think it was

894
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: around about my recollection was about two thousand and one

895
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 1: or two. The very well known and you'll remember Blood Pit, won't,

896
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: but it was a very well known CEO of ABHI.

897
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: His name was Don Argus. Yes, and Don was asked

898
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: I think it was an interview for the AFR. He said,

899
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: they said to him whatever they said to what keeps

900
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: you up at night? What keeps you awake at night?

901
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: And his response was a foreign entity who has the

902
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: big balance sheet coming into Australia and either buying a

903
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: bank or competing with a bank, And he quoted General.

904
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 2: Electric at the time.

905
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 1: General Electory at the time was the world's largest company

906
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: by market CAPP was probably the biggest finance financier in

907
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: the world in terms of you know, asset finance, and

908
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: it's not today, but it was then.

909
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: Because the Gypsy's sort of changed that.

910
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: But and interesting enough general actorly do you come into

911
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: Australia If I asked Anthony Miller today, what's something that

912
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: keeps you awake at night in terms of the banking sector,

913
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: not not just West but but the banking sector. What

914
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: is the biggest challenge to you today?

915
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 3: Look, I mean there's a couple of things. So if

916
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 3: I could sort of have a bit of liberty to

917
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 3: say from one thing, I think you know one thing

918
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 3: I'm very focused on. I think all the chief executives

919
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 3: of the banks are, and chief executives right across Australia,

920
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 3: which is cyber and cyber crime, cyber security data. It's

921
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 3: just such a challenging environment. And we're not just if

922
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 3: you will, dealing with say criminals or you know, unfair

923
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 3: business practices. We're dealing with nation states assaulting the country.

924
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 3: And so that's that's a complexity and a challenge that

925
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 3: I don't think previous CEO sort of any era had

926
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 3: to had to contemplate. And the challenges we face as

927
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 3: we deal with cyber threats to the country are such

928
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 3: that you know that that does deeply worry me. The

929
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 3: other aspect of I suppose what I do worry about is,

930
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 3: essentially banking is increasingly, as I described it, homogenized, commoditized,

931
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 3: and so is it something that we could be further

932
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 3: disintermediated by or impacted by as a large technology company

933
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 3: looks to via their phone essentially say just deal with

934
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 3: me on everything, and I will outsource and if you

935
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 3: will have a white label offering, and I'll have a

936
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 3: deposit over here, and I'll get a bank which will

937
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 3: just be technically the deposit adi institution, but you'll do

938
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 3: it all via me, and you'll do it all via

939
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 3: my phone, for example, like Google. That's right, Google and

940
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 3: other one of the technology giants, exactly right, And so

941
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 3: do they then if you will into the financial services

942
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 3: or the regulated banking sector, and I do worry about that.

943
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 3: I do think other executives worry about that. I do

944
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 3: also reflect on the fact that, however, if that's where

945
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 3: they do go, then they will be captured by regulation

946
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 3: that they're not captured by today, and they don't want

947
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 3: that kind of regulation, And then that will be a

948
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 3: very interesting proposition to put to people, is do you

949
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 3: want these people providing banking services without necessarily the same

950
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 3: responsibilities in the other sides, that's right, and then all

951
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 3: of a sudden, being a regulated bank and being very

952
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 3: good at how you deliver on your regulatory obligations to

953
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 3: both regulator and community becomes not a burden, as it

954
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 3: isn't as advantage, but is part of your comparative advantage

955
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 3: and in fact is something that we should be embracing

956
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 3: and celebrating because if we do that well, then that

957
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 3: reinforce is that license top rate and that right top right,

958
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 3: and reinforces our position in the marketplace.

959
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: You guys are with the banking section, particularly the big

960
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: five banks including mcquarie. You're the biggest tax payer in

961
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: the country, probably as a group, definitely one of the

962
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: most influential.

963
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 2: Where do you see.

964
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: Your banks or your grouping bank, your bank group obligations

965
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: relative to nation building and national policy in relation and

966
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: things like super tax. Do you feel as though you

967
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: have a position or do you think you feel as

968
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: though you should get on the front foot about it

969
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: As a bank, I'm talking about.

970
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 2: As an institution.

971
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 3: That's a that's a that's a and that's a challenge

972
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 3: for us. A question that we ask ourselves is, well, look, well,

973
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 3: certainly we're a big company and in big industry and

974
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 3: have a big role to play in the Australian community

975
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 3: and economy, and we have a license stop rate, and

976
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 3: we need to be very fixated on we're delivering the

977
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 3: right standard of service to our customers and we're meeting

978
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 3: that community and regulatory expectation in doing that. And we've

979
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 3: just got to make sure we're superb at that. And

980
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 3: if we're superb at that, then I think we've earned

981
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 3: the right to be able to contribute to the public

982
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:23,720
Speaker 3: discourse around particular things like tax maybe industry relations, maybe

983
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 3: policy settings, etc. But I think we've got to make

984
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 3: sure we're very very good on delivering that service to

985
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 3: the standard our customers want and the community expects if

986
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 3: we're going to contribute to these discussions. And I would

987
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 3: say that perhaps you could. You know, over the last

988
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 3: ten years there's been a period of time where the

989
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 3: banks haven't been at the standard needed to and Royal

990
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 3: Commission and other things revealed that. But I do think

991
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 3: we perhaps particularly with COVID and what's happened in the

992
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 3: last few years, hopefully people do feel banks are working better,

993
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 3: working hard to deliver customer service to the right standards.

994
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 3: Community expects and so therefore we can and should contribute

995
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 3: a little bit more to some of these bigger topics

996
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 3: and bigger discussions. But we've got to be a little

997
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 3: bit honest with our sales marketing on until we've got

998
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 3: that standard. We got ourselves to that standard consistently, we're

999
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 3: going to be careful.

1000
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 2: The Glas Houses argument, this.

1001
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 3: Is exactly right, and we've just got to be a

1002
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 3: little bit humble about how we put our selves forward

1003
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 3: into these into these kind of debates. I do think,

1004
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 3: for example, Westpac is Australia's oldest company. First, they're going

1005
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 3: to help us bank first and oldest bank, and the

1006
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 3: fact is that our success has been tied to the

1007
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 3: growth and progress of this country, and so we have

1008
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 3: a heavy responsibility to contribute to Australia's growth and support Australia.

1009
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 3: And one of the things I would sort of say

1010
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 3: that we've done is we've committed to retaining our businesses

1011
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 3: in Papua New Guinea and Fiji because that's part of

1012
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 3: what is important to Australia's natural interests as we go forward.

1013
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 3: And we've therefore got a great working relationship with Canberra

1014
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 3: in making sure how we do things and what we

1015
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 3: want to do in P and G and FIG is

1016
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 3: something that they're comfortable with and is serving the national

1017
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 3: interest as we go forward. And I think that's been

1018
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 3: to me and I think that I'm very proud of that.

1019
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 3: I'm very proud of the Voice Pact doing that. And

1020
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 3: that's an example of the kind of things we know

1021
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 3: we need to do more of in helping Australia, because

1022
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 3: if Australia prospers, then being a bank with the market

1023
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 3: share we have, we naturally prosper as a results, and

1024
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 3: so thinking much more nationwide is sort of also part

1025
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 3: of my job description.

1026
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 2: Now, two more quick questions. The first one is.

1027
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: Cryptocurrency and all the usual players in relationship cryptocurrency and

1028
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 1: a bigcoin, et cetera, ethereum.

1029
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 2: What's the bank's position in relation to that?

1030
00:50:55,040 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 3: So the underlying technology where continuously working with our peer

1031
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: banks international and domestic the Reserve Bank on how we

1032
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 3: might use that technology, particularly in the context of international

1033
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 3: payments for example, and tokenization of deposits and our sets

1034
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 3: all of a sudden could reduce a lot of friction

1035
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 3: quick couldn't make it all quicker and more efficient. What

1036
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 3: we've got to be careful of is you know, as

1037
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 3: things go faster and more efficiently, you know, frauds and

1038
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 3: other matters are affected more effectively and efficiently. And so

1039
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 3: we've got to make sure that, you know, as we

1040
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 3: go further with this, that we are still retaining certain

1041
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 3: protections that community and customers expected us. In the context

1042
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 3: of cryptocurrency itself. Uh, you know, we continue to see

1043
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:53,280
Speaker 3: an enormous amount of fraud and scam activity in generation

1044
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 3: around cryptocurrency, and so we are conservative in terms of

1045
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 3: facilitating payments into crypto exchanges and payments out of crypto

1046
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 3: exchanges using these train well the Westpac banking system, and

1047
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 3: I think that's a statement probably applies to all these

1048
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 3: train banks because there is just such a hyperpensity for fraud,

1049
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 3: scam and criminal activity that we're very cautious about that.

1050
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 3: And so until that is addressed, it's hard to see

1051
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 3: how we just go and embrace that asset class in

1052
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 3: a way that some of the uses of it are

1053
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 3: advocating we should go. And so and one of the

1054
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 3: other interesting things for me is this interesting and emerging

1055
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 3: challenge for the United States, which is it's embracing on

1056
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 3: the one hand, bitcoining crypto. But the US's pre eminence

1057
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 3: in the world is one of the reasons for that

1058
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 3: is it's US dollar, and the US dollar is the

1059
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 3: currency that everyone goes to and goes between as they

1060
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 3: do their international trade or if you will, complete transactions.

1061
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 3: So why would you you gebilize jeopardize that by encouraging

1062
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 3: something such as a bitcoin as an alternative where there

1063
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 3: is no ability to truly monitor, trace and if you will, govern,

1064
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 3: And that would only start to weaken US position globally.

1065
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 3: And so I'm finding that a little bit of an

1066
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 3: interesting development, which is, you know, US Hedgemeny is at

1067
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 3: risk if you allow bitcoin the full run or the

1068
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 3: cryptocurrency universe to have the full run of international payments,

1069
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 3: et cetera. So how do we get that balance right?

1070
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 3: That's to me a little bit unclear, and it also means,

1071
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 3: you know, let's be thoughtful crypto.

1072
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: So basically your position to let it play out and

1073
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: see what happens. It's one of those areas where I

1074
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 1: don't think you have to be first, you just got

1075
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: to be right. Yeah, and so let's be right. So

1076
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: final final question, more of commentary. I noticed when we're

1077
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 1: doing the work on this podcast. Some two books you've read.

1078
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure I've read many books. But two books you

1079
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: read is called Why Nations Fail, and the other one

1080
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: is called The Count of Monte Christo.

1081
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:04,919
Speaker 2: But I just want to look at Why Nations file

1082
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 2: that book.

1083
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: That book was actually quite an interesting book and I

1084
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 1: remember it as well. But it was sort of proffering

1085
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: a position that nations that fail are the ones that

1086
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: sort of only look after the elite and lock out

1087
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 1: everyone having an opportunity, fair opportunity to innovate through innovation,

1088
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 1: to become.

1089
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 3: Better what they do?

1090
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 2: Is that a Is that a book?

1091
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 3: Big?

1092
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 1: Does that book sort of somehow describe how Anthony Miller

1093
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 1: feels and thinks about just about how things should happen

1094
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 1: in the world.

1095
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, it is a book. I've read it a

1096
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 3: couple of times and have reflected on it. Certainly, you know,

1097
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 3: the nation's failing because the essentially the gap between the

1098
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 3: have and have not gets too far. But more importantly,

1099
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 3: they have nots don't think they have any hope. I

1100
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 3: don't think they have any opportunity. And so that's a

1101
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:06,720
Speaker 3: really critical challenge, exam challenge for society today.

1102
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: And we have that with young people's right. I feel

1103
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: that relative to people, say my age, the boomers, that's right.

1104
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 3: And then in particular, perhaps the example that most brings

1105
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 3: this out, which is housing and access to housing. And

1106
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 3: so you know, I own my house, and everyone of

1107
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 3: my age and generation, you know, we all got opportunities

1108
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 3: and we have brought property, and I think we've enjoyed

1109
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 3: the wealth effect of house and house prices growing, but

1110
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 3: we're currently not building enough or creating enough house or

1111
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 3: unit supply so that everyone feels they're a chance of

1112
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 3: getting it. Doesn't mean you guarantee that they get it,

1113
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 3: but they've got to feel like this hope that they'll

1114
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 3: get it. And so one of the things that I

1115
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 3: drew out of the Wye Nations file is that unless

1116
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 3: we are working much harder at ensuring those who don't

1117
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 3: have property, as an example, feel there's at least hope

1118
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 3: and there's things in place that give them a chance

1119
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 3: of getting access to property, then that's a real problem

1120
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 3: and we've got to solve that. And those who have

1121
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 3: property and those who are, if you will, in the

1122
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 3: incompor position that many of us are today, we have

1123
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 3: a bit of a responsibility to say, well, what else

1124
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 3: can we do? Now? What should we be doing to

1125
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 3: ensure that others have the same opportunities we had our

1126
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 3: bit circumstances different and you know, the environments different, But

1127
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,399
Speaker 3: we've got to give them the same opportunities, the same

1128
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 3: hope that we all had that drive our behaviors to buy,

1129
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 3: and they obviously enjoy owning property.

1130
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: And the reason I asked you because and to some extent,

1131
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:41,800
Speaker 1: I've sort of set you up a little bit. But

1132
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: and then I apologize to that. But it goes back

1133
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 1: to my earlier question about banks having a say on policy,

1134
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: because if I just use young people, anyone under the

1135
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: age of thirty, who's looking at and by the way,

1136
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to sound like a heretic saying this, but

1137
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: would be thinking themselves like I can't afford to go

1138
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: and bid against ants the middle because Anthony Miller's got

1139
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: Maybe you're not the boss of Westbak, you're just a

1140
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,760
Speaker 1: school teacher, headmaster at a school. But you've accumulated two properties.

1141
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 1: Your income from the two properties now is being added

1142
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: to your other income from your wage, and given negative gearing,

1143
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 1: Anthony Miller might get approved for more money to buy

1144
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 1: the property against one of my young producers. He's only

1145
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: twenty two, and Anthony Miller is going to use negative

1146
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: gearing to.

1147
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 2: Build up more of a portfolio.

1148
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: And by the way, I'm not against eve viearing. I

1149
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: think it's a great thing that's being great for Australia.

1150
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: But at the same time, this summit that's being held

1151
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: a productivity summer, they're they're going to address tax reform

1152
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: and as I sound, going to sound like a heretic,

1153
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 1: but to some extent, wealth has been created in this

1154
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: country by using sort of tax concessions that really only

1155
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: benefit blokes like you and me today and women like

1156
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: you and I, you know, like people in our position,

1157
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: and it is largely unfair for the younger people because

1158
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 1: whilst they can use negative gearing, they actually don't ever

1159
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: call a five for loan. And we're always going to

1160
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: be a to able to add bid them because then

1161
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 1: the eggy gearing, we're going to be able to say,

1162
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 1: you know, and I want that property and my income

1163
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: is better than yours, mister twenty one year old. Therefore

1164
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: I can always abid you, and as a result of

1165
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: our bidding, you never get on the ladder.

1166
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 3: We can't.

1167
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: I don't think we can solve more housing. I mean,

1168
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 1: it seems like an issue we can't solve. When we

1169
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 1: saw somebody coming out of Treasury which is leaked somehow,

1170
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: they saying that Treasures already advised the government that they

1171
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: will not meet there one point two million housing guide

1172
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 1: the new houses. So if we can't solve the housing issue,

1173
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 1: affordability issue for younger people. And you know, younger people

1174
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: are big, big cohort in your business. I mean they're

1175
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 1: very important to you because they're the next generation. You know,

1176
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: we're all going to die off at some stage. You've

1177
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: got to fill the bucket back up with younger people.

1178
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: And you've got to attract younger people, which is tasting

1179
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: back to the question I should before and given you

1180
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 1: know your you know why nations fail book, it's because

1181
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: institutions governments talking about not restructuring or changing the structure

1182
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: of the system to allow people to get back on

1183
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 1: the ladder younger people.

1184
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 2: Where do you think?

1185
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 3: So I come back to that idea that people need

1186
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 3: to feel that they have an opportunity, that there's hope.

1187
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 3: I do think we have not done anywhere near what

1188
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 3: we should be doing to create more supply in the

1189
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 3: context of housing. And so when you talk about there's

1190
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 3: a lot of us within this element of incumbency that

1191
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 3: can therefore just keep buying and thus squeezing out those

1192
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 3: who don't, you certainly can try to temper that demand

1193
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 3: by limiting how many properties you might own, and obviously

1194
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 3: that just creates our cottage industry of arbitrage, etc. And

1195
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 3: what we've done and continue to perhaps put too much

1196
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 3: weight on, is how do we solve the demand side

1197
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 3: in Australia. So why don't we lend more money or

1198
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 3: give more money to first home buyers or cap interest

1199
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 3: grant and they're all good things, and we should do

1200
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 3: all of those things. But what we've got to do

1201
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 3: is solve supply. And if I just keep this simple

1202
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 3: sort of proposition in front of us, which is supply

1203
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 3: at the right price point, so that all those people

1204
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 3: who can't at the moment by a property can see

1205
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 3: there is an opportunity or potential opportunity and they have hope.

1206
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 3: We've got to create that. And so if I think

1207
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 3: about the median income in Australia is about ninety thousand dollars,

1208
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 3: as a bank you would land probably five times someone's

1209
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 3: income subject to expense verification maybe six times subject too

1210
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 3: expense verification against their income a mortgage. So therefore that

1211
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 3: tells you we need a lot of houses in that

1212
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 3: sort of five hundred to six hundred thousand dollars zip code.

1213
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 3: If we're going to solve what is currently available in

1214
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 3: terms of financing and matching the two that's right. And

1215
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 3: so then you break it down and say, okay, we

1216
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 3: need more five hundred and six hundred thousand dollars houses,

1217
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 3: and so median income median house prices in Australia over

1218
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 3: million dollars at one point six million dollars in Sydney

1219
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 3: Regional Australia as median house price is five hundred thousand dollars.

1220
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 3: So if we're going to go after house price houses

1221
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 3: units at the right price point, why aren't we thinking

1222
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 3: a lot more about how we create more opportunity in

1223
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 3: regional Australia just given the price point there meets so

1224
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 3: much more of what we need to solve. Second thing

1225
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 3: is is that maybe we have to continue to work

1226
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 3: harder at densifying and providing a lot more properties in

1227
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 3: the city rather than the big home which obviously costs

1228
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 3: an amount and well, because of costs and because of

1229
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 3: a whole host of other issues are more expensive than

1230
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 3: five to six hundred thousand dollars, how do we create

1231
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 3: a lot more five hundred to six hundred thousand dollars properties?

1232
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 3: And we're not putting that exam question in front of

1233
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 3: everyone in the property ecosystem to deliver. And I think

1234
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 3: if we then said let's go after that, you'd be

1235
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 3: surprised at what could be achieved if that's the goal.

1236
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 3: And more importantly, we say to every single council, your

1237
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 3: job is to make sure that there's fifty new units

1238
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 3: or houses at the price point at five and six

1239
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 3: affordable house, Yeah, but not affordable in the sense of,

1240
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 3: you know, a slightly pejorative Oh it's a low socio demographic.

1241
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 1: No.

1242
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 3: No, this is just price of property at the right

1243
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 3: price point to meet to demand that at the moment

1244
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:19,479
Speaker 3: is not being Do you think.

1245
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: The word affordable is probably the wrong word to use

1246
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: because it is pejorative, It sort of sounds like and

1247
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 1: to develop as.

1248
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 3: Some people will feel like, you know, it's a little

1249
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 3: bit sort of patronized affordable housing. No, no, no, just

1250
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 3: got to get more property at the right price point.

1251
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:36,479
Speaker 3: For people who can pay that price.

1252
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 1: It's a better narrative, much better narrative because the people

1253
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 1: whore buying it, I don't want to be thinking the

1254
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: buying affordable housing. They want to think I've bought the

1255
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: price because that's the price I can afford. It might

1256
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: be a bit smaller, might you know, might have you know,

1257
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 1: slightly one bathrooms, but it might be just slightly different

1258
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 1: to be affordable from the developer's point of view. But

1259
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 1: that's what it makes sense. And I think the change

1260
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: in the narrative is really important. And you know the

1261
01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 1: industry more than better than anybody.

1262
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 3: Know who you are. We've certainly got good insights on

1263
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 3: the industry and we know better than anyone. But we've

1264
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,439
Speaker 3: got good insights on the industry, and we're very keen

1265
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 3: to support the industry. And you know, and the job creation,

1266
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 3: the nation building opportunities in building let's put more into

1267
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 3: regional Australia. And then you think about regional Australia, Northern Australia.

1268
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 3: We need a lot more of our population living in

1269
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 3: Northern Australia for a whole host of reasons, not the

1270
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 3: least of which is it's not it's a reasonably elegant

1271
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 3: potential way to deal with cost of housing at the

1272
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 3: right price point for the demand that we have. The

1273
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 3: only other thing I'd say about that book which I

1274
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 3: thought was really important was, and you drew on it

1275
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 3: in some of your observations, that what you when you

1276
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 3: read the book is about the power of having innovation

1277
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 3: and the way private property or intellectual property laws and

1278
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 3: protecting people who come up with great ideas and giving

1279
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 3: and thus stimulating and challenging people to innovate and come

1280
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 3: up with new things. So and that's one of those

1281
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 3: things which you know we should continue to ask ourselves.

1282
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 3: Are we're doing enough? And I think we have great

1283
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 3: intellectual property protections in Australia, but are we creating enough

1284
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 3: of an environment and enough room for people to try things,

1285
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 3: create things, trial and error, because we've got to innovate

1286
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 3: and we've got to be really open minded and courageous

1287
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 3: about trying things if we're going to I suppose, succeed

1288
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 3: as a nation. And if there's one thing you sort

1289
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 3: of could argue the US has as an advantage of

1290
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,919
Speaker 3: everyone else in the world, is they believe every day

1291
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 3: that they're going there's a chance to get ahead. They

1292
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 3: believe in the American dream, and they believe in the

1293
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 3: idea that they can innovate and they can create. And

1294
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 3: obviously their technology industry and what the innovation and the

1295
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 3: ambition they have is extraordinary, and that is to underpin

1296
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 3: so much of the success in the United States. We

1297
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 3: need to encourage that a lot more in Australia, in

1298
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 3: my view, and create a lot more context where people

1299
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 3: feel to go and try to try an experiment. And

1300
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 3: one of the issues in Australia is sometimes I think

1301
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 3: we're a bit tough on each other, hiding behind that

1302
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 3: idea of the tall poppy syndrome where we drag people

1303
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 3: down for trying. I think we've got to start to

1304
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 3: really endorse and celebrate and get behind people who are

1305
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 3: trying things and create a much more positive culture around that.

1306
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 2: Anything like that.

1307
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 1: That's actually pretty cool that you actually said that, because

1308
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 1: innovation and the innovation nation, which is what Malcolm turn

1309
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: Will try to turn Astralia into when he was the

1310
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 1: Prime minister here is probably my biggest bug beer. I

1311
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 1: think we've lost a little bit of that, and not

1312
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 1: that we're without talent.

1313
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 3: I mean I think we've got enormous talent.

1314
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 2: Amazing.

1315
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 3: Just liberate that talent and give it every run of

1316
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 3: the place. Well mate, thanks very much. I really appreciate

1317
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 3: it things. Thank you. That's very gracious to as so,

1318
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 3: thank you very ch I'm.

1319
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 1: Actually privileged to have a CEO and your of your

1320
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: elk into the organization, so thanks so much.

1321
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 3: And that