1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: One occasion, I took a suitcase full of sticks. It 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: was so jam packed with tire sticks that you couldn't 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,159 Speaker 1: get a bloody t shirt on top of it and 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: close the case, so it was just wrapped in plastic 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: wipe down with methos so the smell wouldn't get out. 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: There were two bags left on the carousel, one of 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: them was mine, and standing around the carousel were I 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: think twenty possibly more, but twenty year Commonwealth Police in uniform. 9 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 2: I'm Andrew Rule. This is Life and Crimes, and today 10 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 2: we're going to talk to Rod Helstead, a fellow that 11 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 2: I would call almost a friend. We met around twenty 12 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: years ago or a little bit less, when we were 13 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: introduced by mutual friend Billy Gray. Billy Gray, of course 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: was from Aubury, originally up that way, but he started 15 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 2: working in newspapers at the bought a mail. Ye we 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: bought a mail, and in fact, so did you. 17 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: Briefly. 18 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: That was a brief stopover in a long and colorful career, 19 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 2: Rod Helstead. And you realize that even back in the 20 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 2: early two thousands, and thought you might sit down and 21 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 2: write your memoirs. And we discussed this possibility and finally 22 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 2: you've delivered. It's been published, hellelujah. It has been published 23 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 2: by a major publisher. It would be Ellen number correct. 24 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: And it is. 25 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: Called it's called take My Advice. I'm not using it. 26 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: It's a very accurate type. 27 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 2: It's a very accurate title. Now, Rod, who are you? 28 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 2: You're flogging your book? 29 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, I am flogging the book. 30 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 2: But you've got some funny stories to tell us. 31 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: I got a lot of funny stories. It's been an 32 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: up and down life without bringing a tear to the eye. 33 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: I've heard a few people along the way, not least 34 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: my two kids and my ex wife, yes, and various others. 35 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: I've done the best I could to make amends. I 36 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: decided to get sober or I was impelled to get 37 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: saber twenty six years ago. In fact, twenty six years ago, 38 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: two weeks ago. It was suggested to me not long 39 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: after I went into AA by Barry Humphrey, who and 40 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: he doesn't mind you, well, didn't mind his name on you. 41 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: He now be fine. 42 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: Now he's a good blake too. He came up to 43 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: me after a meeting one day and he said, tell me, right, 44 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: have you ever thought about writing your memoir? Interest in 45 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: stories to tell, and I said, I have, Barry, but look, 46 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: when I write it, I want to get it exactly right. 47 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: Is that give you a word of advice there? He said, 48 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: don't get it right, get it written. And that's stuck 49 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: in my mind. It really stuck in my mind. And 50 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,399 Speaker 1: then I got sober and I started building businesses and 51 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: making a few bob and concentrating on that, and the 52 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: book was in the back of my mind, and eventually 53 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: was about four years ago. I sold one business that 54 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: I kicked off and I thought, well, I got a 55 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: loose end. I'll write the book. 56 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: Finally got around writing the book that. 57 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: We discussed all those years ago. Yeah, yeah, I met 58 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: you with the Billy. I reckon it would be about 59 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: was when I was working for WTFN in Melbourne and 60 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: Bill flew down for it, and I reckon that. I 61 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: reckon that would have been around about fifteen years ago. 62 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: Without doubt, before I came back to the welcoming arms 63 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: of the herald Son. So finally you've written this book, 64 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 2: and I have to say to explain to our listeners 65 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,839 Speaker 2: that it's not really about the joys of AA, it's 66 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 2: about the life you led before that. So what happened 67 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: in your life when you were young and younger. 68 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: Look at the stadium the beginning. The old man was 69 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: a stocking station agent in Gannadhar. And I was an 70 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: adventurous sort of a kid. We didn't have TV and 71 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: you know all the implemented telephones and all the rest 72 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: that they've got these days. You made your own fun, 73 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: of course, So you know, Marmon sends us up to 74 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: pork Bone Hill with a box of matches and a 75 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: packet of sausages and say, behme by dark. You sort 76 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: of learned to survive. Really, I mean, I don't mean 77 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: survive she send us off, You know what I mean. 78 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: It was an adventurous life. Anyway, the old man said 79 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: to me. I wanted to go to the saaliliards and 80 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: work with him in school holidays. He was at he was, yeah, 81 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: he was, and a bloody good salesman. Anyway, I went 82 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: to the sailiards and I got into the sheep trucks 83 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: and open gates, and the sheep are doing what they do, 84 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: you know, and all over me. And I'm bloody loving it. 85 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: And I got paid. I got paid a pound a day. 86 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: Bloody good money for a kid. Anyway, one day, when 87 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: I was about ten, he said to me, yes, and 88 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: he said it's time for you to work with cattle. 89 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: Do you want to do that? And I said, yeah, sure, 90 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: no problem. So he said, I'm going to have to 91 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: steer around the race here to you. I want to 92 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: hold onto this gate to the pen, and when the 93 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: steer comes up, you go hoo ah hoo ah, and 94 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: it'll go into the pen. And I said, yeah, right, 95 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: no worries. And then this bloody thing came around the 96 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: corner and faired incoman. I thought it was a Spanish 97 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: fighting bull. It was huge, I thought it was anyway. Anyway, 98 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: it's trotted towards me, and I thought it was galloping 99 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: at me, and I'm going to hourrah rah, And I 100 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: got one foot on the bloody race of the that 101 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: so I get shitting out of the way and holding 102 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: the gate. And anyway, the thing turned and went into 103 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: the pen, and I closed the gate and slid the 104 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 1: bolt across, and I looked at the old man and 105 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: he had this look on his face of absolute pride 106 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: and confidence, and I saw it. It was an exchange, 107 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: you know that book that passes between people. And I 108 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: realized years later on he was able to put into 109 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: words when I got into AA, what was that fifty 110 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: forty years later? I realized in that moment that I won. 111 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: I had courage, I could stand aground. Two, I could 112 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: work in a team the old man. Three that I 113 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: could follow directions, and four it's a really good idea 114 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: to have Plan B. Hence the foot on the fence, 115 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: get out of the bloody way, the very nice your 116 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: life has been. Yeah, so that's what's dedicated on that. 117 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's I have an adventurous spirit. And what 118 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 2: happened next, Well, we moved to Aubrey and I went 119 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 2: to high school and I had no interest whatever in school, 120 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 2: A lot of interest in the mates and playing footy 121 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 2: and living that sort of life, you know, fifteen sixteen 122 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 2: years of age, going down. 123 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: To the pub. The old record who played for Melbourne 124 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: years and years ago. Ireca had a pub in Aubrey 125 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: and we used to go in there. Actually it was 126 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: before he owned it. We used to go in there 127 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: and buy Oh I did, because I look the oldest. 128 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: I'd go in there and buy. You could buy five 129 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: cans of VB for a dollar twenty cents each, and 130 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: I used to buy them for the boys, and we 131 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: used to go to the gardens to have a drink. 132 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: And yeah, it was. It was a really good life. 133 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: It was terrific life. We didn't hurt anybody, we didn't vandalize. 134 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: We just lived our lives. I had no interest in school. 135 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: I got good passes in maths and English, and I 136 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: couldn't wait to get out. And the old man got 137 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: me a job in the bloody bank. 138 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: Did it four walls? It was national and you're not 139 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 2: your cup of tea? No, it was had four walls. 140 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 2: I had to be outside. How long did it last? 141 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: The bank lasted two weeks in Aubury and I resigned 142 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: and I managed and said, you can't do that. Your 143 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: father got you other job. So they sent me to 144 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: Sydney and I had six months up. 145 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: There in the bank in Sydney. Yeah, right in Sydney. Well, 146 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 2: you know it was in this a turning point. 147 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, what Aubrey actually was a turning point. My job 148 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: for two weeks was to carry this suitcase full of 149 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: used banknotes with a guard who carried a gun. We'd 150 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: take it up the raid fifty meters to the your 151 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: fifty yards, then to the Commonwealth Bank and we take 152 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: it down into their cellar and they would then take 153 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: the money and they'd count it and stamp holes in 154 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: it and send it off the Reserve Bank. It was 155 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: just old notes that were no good anymore. So I 156 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: spent the two weeks ago, the two times I carried that, 157 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, how can I make this mine? How can 158 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: I can I pinch it? 159 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 2: I say so, you had an inquiring mind with a 160 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 2: slightly criminal ban, Yeah, which is only natural when you're 161 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: carrying use banks. 162 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's pretty tempting. It very probably you know, 163 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: thirty thousand pounds or something like thirty thousand dollars in it. Yeah, dollars. 164 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: It was nineteen sixty six. 165 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 2: Yes, conversion. So of course you didn't do that. 166 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: No, No, I didn't. I didn't, but it was interesting. 167 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: The thought occurred to me. 168 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: I'm not a thief, no, but I read that amount 169 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: of money. 170 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: Certain institutions a fair game, like banks, the tax office. 171 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: Tax tax biker isn't listening now. 172 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 2: It probably is, Yeah, it probably is. I take that back, 173 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 2: Take that back. I would immediately we all pay tax 174 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: around here. So you went to Sydney to work in 175 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: the bank, and what happened there. 176 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: Well, I I just drank. I got under the booze 177 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: did Yeah. I had one day out in the time 178 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: I was there, I had one day at the races 179 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 1: and I won forty dollars, which was double my weekly salary. 180 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: And my mate and I decided we're going to the 181 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: cross for a drink, and we had to walk past 182 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: the Curability Hotel and so we called in for a 183 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: quick one and there were there are about seven or 184 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: eight blakes in there. Yeah, and I've been a lair 185 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: I am, I said, shout the bar. Yeah, you'd always 186 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: wanted to say it, and you were what seven day? Yeah, 187 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: and when you know media beer was twenty cents. 188 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cheap. 189 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: So I thought I won forty bucks. And the Republican 190 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: or the barman came back and he said that'll be 191 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: seven dollars eighty and I said, I got all, yeah, 192 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: could it possibly be there's only seven blakes in here. 193 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: They're all drinking seven ounce of beers and they're nursing those. Oh, 194 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: he said, they're not drinking those anymore. He said they're 195 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: all drinking skinners now. With the Scots chase. 196 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: That was less than one. Yeah, that was don't big note. Yeah, 197 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: don't big note. I didn't land it. No, take my advice. 198 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: Take my advice. I'm not using it. So you get 199 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 2: to the racis And I loved it part. I ran 200 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 2: the gamal in at school. I ran the Melbourne cup 201 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 2: book at school. Yeah, make good money out of it 202 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 2: and what have you. But it wasn't for me the 203 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 2: bank life. And I decided to hitchhike over to Western Australia, 204 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 2: did you And what was the aim of that? 205 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: Well, my mate's father knew somebody over a great bowl 206 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: of gold mines out of cal Girley. He organized job 207 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: for for Phil, and Phil told me that he could 208 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 1: get me a job too. I said, yep, I'm in. 209 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: And so I hitch liked over. Well, not in the 210 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: minds as a geologist assistant. Oh okay, So yeah, traveling 211 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: trailing out in the country that nobody ever been to before. Yeah, 212 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: good stuff. I remember Dennis the geologist. He was an 213 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: odd one. He was one of twins. They used to 214 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: take it in turns to stand for the local seat 215 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: in the state parliament. They never have got any votes, 216 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: but you know, it was a boring sort of a blake. 217 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: But yeah, nice enough so you've got the job. 218 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 2: You've got that, you got there safely, got the safe adventures. 219 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: But sixteen rides three and a half days, did you 220 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,839 Speaker 1: roll a car or something. I've rolled a number of cars, 221 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: but on that trip, And how long have you been 222 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 1: working in the bush? And I was only over there 223 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: for about six months. And there are lots of things happened, 224 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: lots of you know, yeah, there were. There were a 225 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: lot of funny moments. There was a very nasty moment 226 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: where a black by the name of Steve was driving 227 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,599 Speaker 1: the years and Scotty and I were the passion is 228 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: in it and he was bush bashing and I said 229 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: to him, better slide down flat country in West Australia. 230 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 1: But there are rocks everywhere. I said, you can't see 231 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: where you're going. He said, it'll be right. And the 232 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: next thing, three goats emerged and he drove at them 233 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: and we were Scotty and I were sort of thinking, well, 234 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: that's a kind of weird thing. And he accelerated and 235 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: ran over one of them, and we Scotty went off 236 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: his trolley. He said, pull the car up, got out 237 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: and he put the gate out of its misery and 238 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: then he was going to use the knife on this fellow. Steve. 239 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: I had to grab him and hold him. And I 240 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: mean I was big and he was small, but he 241 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: was going to have this fella. And we went back 242 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: to camp and we got in the ute and I said, 243 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: we'll go straight back. 244 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 2: To strain the relationship. 245 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we told the boss we'd never never worked 246 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: with this bike again. Didn't tell him why. I just said, 247 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: we will never work with this fellow again. He turned 248 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: out to be a thief, Steve and got his just desserts. 249 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: Another mile mannered Michael with the glasses, came from a 250 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: family of doctors, sat at the HSC three times so 251 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: I could get the marks to become a doctor, and 252 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: his family incessed to be a doctor. And he just 253 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: said no, I've had enough. And he got over to 254 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: Western Australia and worked in the camps with us, and 255 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: he we didn't know, but Michael was the everyweight boxing 256 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: champion of his own and he just took this boke apart. 257 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: And I know it sound like I'm promoting violence, and 258 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: I'm not, but there are certain moments in time where 259 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 1: nothing but a good clip on the air, We'll do. 260 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 2: The job and that's what happened. Yeah, we're going to 261 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 2: certainly to touch up. What was your next adventure after 262 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 2: working in six months with a murderous killing. 263 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: Lunatic. I thought I got onto a tip for shares 264 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: and I rang. My man said, by these shares, theseus 265 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: they're going to list in the next few days. And 266 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: they did. They listed in Queensland and West Australian company. 267 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: They were twenty cent shares listed to thirty cents and 268 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: they rapidly went to forty dollars or something. Oh and 269 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: then I was told by the geologist that I was 270 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: with when we discovered this stuff, and he said, look 271 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: it's a dud. So I rang. The old man said 272 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: cell and then I resigned and I thought, I'm going 273 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: back to aubury. I'm going back to a motsa. And 274 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: when I got back, the old man said, now he said, 275 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: we made nothing. He's a stopbreaker. Mate in Sydney he 276 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: went to school with didn't buy him because he hadn't 277 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: seen the prospectus. And that taught me a big lesson. 278 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: Take your chances. Take your chances. If you're going to 279 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: wait for proof, you'll never have a back a winner. 280 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 2: True. Yeah, good point. That is an interesting story because 281 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 2: I mean the arithmetic, twenty cents each turning into forty dollars, 282 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 2: it's a massive several thousand percent. 283 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so he only had to put a grand 284 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: in and you never ever work again. 285 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 2: Never work again, yeah, staggering. Yeah, that didn't happen. 286 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: Well, I didn't work again for ten years anyway. 287 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 2: No, I saw, Well, that's sort of why in a way, 288 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 2: that's why we're here, the descent of young Rod into 289 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: the pit of sin city. So you end up back 290 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: in Sydney. 291 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: I ended up back in Sydney, and I did come 292 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: back and work for the Board of Mail for a year, 293 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: but that didn't work out. 294 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 2: Now I cent recalled reading the book. I read an 295 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 2: early version of it that in Sydney at one point 296 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: you'd worked in a pub there and you didn't realize 297 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 2: you got involved in a card game and you didn't 298 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 2: realize it was read and you lost them. 299 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: I wasn't a part of it was Bloody Mary's Wine, but. 300 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: Bloody Mary's wine. But when was that? 301 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: That was early days. We had a game of cards 302 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: in my house that I was sharing with a couple 303 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: of other blakes, and one of the bouncers from Bloody Mary's. 304 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: A guy called Mike had the fastest hands you've ever 305 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: seen in your life. I remember in one night he 306 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: placed a candle on the bar and lit it, and 307 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: he had one of those bowl wine glasses on a 308 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: stem with the bowl, and he looked at both and 309 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: in the fastest thing, he flicked his fingers at the 310 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: flame of the candle. He didn't actually touch it, but 311 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: he sucked the air out from under beneath the candle 312 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: and put it out, and in the same motion cracked 313 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: the edge of the bowl of the wine glass and 314 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: break the stem and caught the ball. 315 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 2: Did he? 316 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: I mean, that's incredibly fast. He was a role he 317 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: partly a little blake, but he was a karate guy 318 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: and he really knew his stuff, and he was he 319 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: could shuffle cards. He could shuffle cards, could he? And 320 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: as well as do karate as handy lad? And what 321 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: was his name? Mike? 322 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 2: Mike? 323 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: I imagine he'd be dead by now, but who knows, knows? 324 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: Who knows? 325 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 2: Is he much older than you, probably about ten years older. 326 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 2: He may may be just hanging on. So Mike got you, 327 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 2: got you into a game of cards. 328 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: Mike and he managed to beat it, did he and 329 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: a number of other blakes in the in the game, 330 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: and Gus, who loved to play cards, said no. He said, 331 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: I think he played one or two hands and he said. 332 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 2: I'll sit out, thinks Oh, And Gus could see Mike 333 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 2: kneeling from the bottom of the deck and I couldn't, okay, 334 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 2: And he got me for five hundred. Oh, it was 335 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: quite a few, bob. And what happened then? You couldn't 336 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 2: really you couldn't pay him because I didn't have the 337 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 2: five hundred. And he put up a proposition. Yeah, he 338 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 2: put a proposition up. And what was that that? 339 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: We relieved the wine bar of it's the night's taking. 340 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 2: So robbed the joint and how did that work out? 341 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: Well, nobody got charged. We did it, and the police 342 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: arrived with the way we did it. He said, look, 343 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: I'll mark you. I'll whack you. 344 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 2: You know, you open the back door, it's dark, I 345 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 2: step in, whack you the safe sape and you're about 346 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 2: to put money in them? 347 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, right. So he put these. 348 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 2: Three coins, two bits in between three, and he's whacked 349 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 2: me and it sort of marked me a bit. 350 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: I said, don't get serious. So he's gone whack, And 351 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: I said, so he's gone three or four, really good 352 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: heart and up and I've got blood run down And 353 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: I then lay on the floor for a couple of 354 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: minutes and I got up and I'm groggy, and I 355 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: call the police and they arrived, and I realized I 356 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: could be charged still out of this matter. Yeah, I choose, 357 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: I could have left it out of the book, and 358 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 1: I could choose not to talk about it now. 359 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 2: But you can't do it. 360 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: You can't. Well, yeah, but you can't edit your life 361 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: if you're going to be fair income and want people 362 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: to believe you, if you're going to put yourself up 363 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: as the past a boy for andy drugs, yes, then 364 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: how can you deny your own bad behavior? Well, that's 365 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: very true. 366 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 2: This is a good point, and at this point you're 367 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 2: only really putting yourself in, yeah, rather than naming. 368 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: Mike, and I didn't put anybody in. The police used 369 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: to drink in our bar, yes, And two of them arrived, 370 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: one who hated me and one who liked me. Vaughan 371 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: liked me, and the other big I can't remember his name. 372 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: He didn't like me at all. And so the blaker 373 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: didn't like me, is questioned me, and what's your part 374 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: in this? And what did you do? You set this up? No, 375 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm groggy. I 376 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: can't I've got no memory, blah blah blah. And Vaughn said, yeah, well, 377 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: pretty open and shutcase to me. Yeah, you're right to 378 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: get home, Rod, And I said, well, I'm a big groggy, 379 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,959 Speaker 1: said I We'll give you a ride. And the other 380 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: boy said your kid, nuja. He said no, I'm not. 381 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: And Vorm was a senior. So got And what was 382 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: the net take of the It was I think it 383 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: was about fifteen hundred. 384 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 2: But he wanted his five hundred that you. 385 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,959 Speaker 1: Which will left seven fifty eighth? Yeah, and me painting 386 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: the five hundred, well left me with two fifty, but 387 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: he very graciously said no, we'll split it down the middle. 388 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 2: Ah. And what happened then, what happened with Mike. 389 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: I was all pretty innocuous. It was just running a 390 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: wine bar and doing stuff. 391 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 2: You know. 392 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: I moved on to other things. That's when I got 393 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: into the other dealing game. 394 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was sort of the first real criminal act. 395 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: Was that. Now you mentioned Mary Bloody Mary's one bar 396 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: and whatsuburb. 397 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: Camping down camping down, Yeah, just down from RPA Hospital. 398 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: And so you've been pretty good at working it. You 399 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 2: were bit of a barman sort of. Oh yeah, I've 400 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 2: done a lot about talk to it, talk to people. 401 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and I've done a lot of and I 402 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: pull a bloody good beer and I don't spill anything 403 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 1: into the drip tray into my session. You wouldn't be 404 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: able to fill a thimble. The stuff very good. 405 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 2: And what happened next. 406 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: I ran into an old mate that I played footy 407 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: against in Aubrey, Paul mack Now did God bless him? 408 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: And Paul said, listen, can you do something for me. 409 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: I've got a business. I want you to run it 410 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: for me. I want to take a trip to Mexico 411 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: when I have a holiday. And I said yeah, yeah, sure. 412 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: What's what's the business And he said, well, I sell 413 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: marijuana and I said, yeah, I can do that. I 414 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: didn't think twice. I said yeah I can do that. 415 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: I've been smoking for about a year. And so he 416 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: went and he gave me a couple of numbers of 417 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: contact in Melbourne and the headman in Sydney, who in 418 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: the book called gator non diplum. But I'm not going 419 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: to tell you his real name because. 420 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 2: It might be it's a marine type animal. 421 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: It could be something like that. 422 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: Although there are no gators in Australia, but I'll get 423 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 2: there is an alligator river. So yeah, contact your man 424 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 2: had gone to Mexico. Yeah, he went to Mexico to 425 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 2: buy things. No, No, he just went for a holiday. 426 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 2: And I I said, I'll run it and I'll make 427 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 2: something and I'll keep something for you. And I met 428 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 2: this guy and my mate Paul told him that I 429 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 2: was going to call him. I met him on the 430 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 2: corner of New South d Raid outside Raised Bow police Station, 431 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 2: which is an interesting starting point, it is, and we 432 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 2: we knodded at each other. I hopped into his car. 433 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 2: We went to the. 434 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: Pub in what's the pub in Double Bay, The Golden Sheath, 435 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 1: The Golden Sheath. We went the Golden Sheath. 436 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 2: Called the Golden Sheet. It could begin also. 437 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: And I've had some funny times in there. And we 438 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: remember the guy Robert G. Barrett Rode. 439 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 2: Had some interesting times once or twice. He was a 440 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 2: very funny man. 441 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: He was a very funny man. He took bloody good drink. 442 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 2: It took the mickey out of the literally establishment. He 443 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 2: came down to Writer's Festival in Melbourne, which is very 444 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 2: seriously po faced and all that, and he turned up 445 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 2: with I think possibly two very sort of glamorous women 446 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 2: who didn't have a lot of clothing on, and he 447 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 2: took them both of this. That's absolutely shocked them. 448 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: I was. I was in the in the back bar 449 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: with the Gator and a few other blokes one day 450 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 1: and then through the double doors burst Robert G. Barrett 451 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: with probably different ones, but two girls run under their charm, 452 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: and he ballowed out right boys the Puddigan start, I'm here. 453 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: It was like that he was funny man and he was. 454 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: He was a bouncer on the illegal casino doors. 455 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, that's that's been a butcher and he could 456 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 2: blue yeah yeah. 457 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: Big time. But he didn't look for anything. He was 458 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: just very happy. He knew what was. 459 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 2: They were funny books. Yeah, yeah, they were funny. They 460 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 2: weren't bad really yeah, and they have been filmed since 461 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 2: yeah I should Yeah. 462 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: Anyway, we got on the terms there a Gata and 463 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: I and we sort of became mates, and then I 464 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: started running large amounts of smoke over with tire sticks 465 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: and just for. 466 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 2: The benefit of our listeners, and I don't want to 467 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 2: cause any trouble. And also we can edit this. But 468 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: data is a non diplome for a bloke who has 469 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 2: got a nickname, and he is a very significant figure 470 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 2: in Sydney crime or in fact in Australian crime. Yes, 471 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 2: and he's one that people like me and others have 472 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 2: heard of for decades. 473 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, that's true. That's right, Okay. 474 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 2: I just wanted to make that clear to our listeners. 475 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 2: And we're not talking about Mickey Mouse Stuffy, No, No, 476 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 2: we're talking about a very serious man, very serious. 477 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: And I've got to say I liked him a real 478 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: lot back then and I still like him. I haven't 479 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: seen him for a long time, but I remember. 480 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 2: But does he like you? That's the problem. 481 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: Last time I saw him, Yeah, last time I saw him, 482 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: he was getting involved in other stuff and outside of smoke. 483 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: And I said to him, this isn't for me, mate, 484 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: I'm out, and it's a trade you don't walk away from. 485 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 1: But I looked him in the eye and I said, 486 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: I'm out. I'm finished, are we right? And he looked 487 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: at me for a long time and then he smiled 488 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: and he said, yeah, mate, we're right, and I believed him, 489 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: and I've never had a moment's worry since. 490 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 2: And yeah, so you had to sort of make the 491 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 2: formal exit. 492 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, the exitent. Well, I wasn't just going not turn 493 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: up and I wasn't going to promise to do something 494 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: that I didn't do. I mean I always fulfilled the task, 495 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: which was being the middle man between the buyer and 496 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: the seller. 497 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 2: And so just described to listen to what that would 498 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 2: involve on a given Wednesday or whatever it might be. 499 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: Well, and that term that's just reminded me my old 500 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: man said to me when I went to West Australia. 501 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: He said, I got two things for you. One was 502 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: thirty bucks, was a lot of money. And I said, 503 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: what's the other thing? He said a word of advice, 504 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: He said, the well's full of buyers and sell has 505 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: become the agent middle Often you'll get paid both ways. 506 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: And I did, and I became a very very good salesman. 507 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 1: And so would you travel to places like Griffith by No, No, No, 508 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: I didn't travel anywhere. Stuff. I picked it up in Sydney. 509 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: It was all organized, mostly imported from Thailand. And Afghanistan 510 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 1: and elsewhere, those buddhisticks and hash hash oil, and I 511 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: would then take a couple of times. I picked it 512 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: up at the airport at the customs, i should say, 513 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: and they were two loads of one was tire sticks, 514 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: the other was hash oil, and they we required my 515 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: utility to transport both players. Why were you a good 516 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: choice for this? 517 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 2: Did they already have people at the customs who were 518 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 2: on side that were being bribed or were you able 519 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 2: to just sort of disarm them with they did? 520 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,719 Speaker 1: Certainly with the stuff with the hash oil in it. 521 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: That was a large box. And when I went to 522 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: pick it up, they said, you said, I was just 523 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: in a bloody p the box paid me, buddy fifty 524 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 1: bucks to come and pick this up. Can I get 525 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: it done? I'm in a hurry, And they said, you 526 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: just wait to turn. And they've emptied the box all 527 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: sorts of goodies, you know, and some wooden things which 528 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: they took a drill and drilled into see if there's 529 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: anything in it other stuff. They if it could be 530 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: opened it, They opened it and they completely emptied the box. 531 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: And they said, all right, well you can go now. 532 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: I said, well, I'm going to put it in the box. 533 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: I'm only paid the body transport it. So I said, 534 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: you can put it in the bloody back in the box, 535 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: which they did, and I said, can you give me 536 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: a handle of it? And they did have your hand 537 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: to put it. 538 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 2: Where was the actual oil? It was in the framework 539 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 2: of the box. In the framework of the box. That's 540 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 2: that old, that old wolf joke about it. They're stopping 541 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 2: the bloke with a wheelbarrow full of store every days 542 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 2: at the end of six. I've seen wheelbarrows from Doc 543 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 2: one and straw from Doc three. It was in the 544 00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 2: framework of the box. They didn't drill that amazing your men, Gaeta, 545 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 2: he had parents. You met the parents now, just to 546 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 2: make it clear again, Gaeta is a serious heavy known 547 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 2: to many many people around this country. He has been 548 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 2: nominated in books, films, whatever as a heavy dude. You 549 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 2: are reasonably close to him at some point. This is 550 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 2: before Adelaide. I suppose this is before the Adelaide adventure 551 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 2: where you left Pound to get away. Okay, so you 552 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 2: have met Gaitera's parents up the coast somewhere. You may 553 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 2: tell this with unexpegated language, and we may have to 554 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 2: do some beeping. 555 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: But I'll have to tell it with language. This is 556 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: the time we brought the oil in the framework of 557 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: the box. We jumped into the gator's jag. There was 558 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 1: Gaitera's minder, his ma, and there was me and we 559 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: went up the central coast. We pulled up this house. 560 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: Mum and Dad were waiting for us. Yep, very humble home, 561 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: firebro home. 562 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 2: What were Mum and dad like? 563 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: Mum and Dad were It's four thirty in the afternoon. 564 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 1: Mom's in hair curlers. She was a lovely lady. She's 565 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: in hair curlers, a nighty, a night sort of gown 566 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: over at the top of it. And Dad was in 567 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: his stripe pajamas and he's dressing gowns with a gold 568 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: tessel cord? Did he four thirty? A little sleep and 569 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: ready for sleep? I think we went into the house. 570 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: We put the framework into the freezer. I still had 571 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: no idea what we were, what we were carrying. We 572 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: put the framework into the freezer and then we sat 573 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: down for dinner at five o'clock and Mum had cooked 574 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: chops and three veg and it was bloody nice too. 575 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: She came out and served us and then she went 576 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: back into the kitchen and ate on her own, left 577 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 1: the men to talk, and am I allowed to bang 578 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:52,959 Speaker 1: this table? 579 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 2: Well, it'll come through on the recording. There. 580 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: God. So the old man's there and he's eating his 581 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: chops and what have you, and he's telling us about 582 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: this time he's doing some business with the boys from 583 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: Griffith and he'd obviously been well, yeah he was, Yeah, 584 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: where Gaya learned his trade. Anyway, the old man is 585 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: telling the story about you. He did this with Griffith 586 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: and we went up there. And at the same time 587 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: he's picked up a piece of bread and he's buttered. 588 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 3: It, white bread and he's buttered it, and then he's 589 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 3: he's look puzzled and he's looked around the table, and 590 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 3: then he's gone bang. 591 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: Slapped his hand on the head really loudly. 592 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 2: Where's the much? 593 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: Mom came out with a jara spread, put a hand 594 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: on his shoulder and said there, now, do you don't 595 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: you get upset? You'll give yourself a heart attack? He said, well, 596 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: side a man wants he looks for the veggimon. There's 597 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: no vegimon. What the fus going on? I levitated out 598 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: of the chair. Geidor's minder who was sitting next to 599 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: the old man. He's just looked across at me and 600 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: he's muttered out the side of his mouth. You get 601 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: used to it, cheers. I hope I do. I hope 602 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: I do. 603 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,959 Speaker 2: It was very funny. It was Gaeta. 604 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: Oh he was so you know, just that was the 605 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: way it was. Probably he was. I actually liked him. 606 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: I thought they were a lovely family. Yeah, it sounds 607 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: a bit weird, but every everything in the same place, and. 608 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 2: That'd be a very good scene in a certain sort. 609 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: Of I wouldn't be a ripper. 610 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 2: I'll chop aresk and a bit like two hands, you 611 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 2: know that. 612 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I teach something else about is that We're 613 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: driving along with just himself and me one day and 614 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: he burst into song? 615 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 2: Did he? 616 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: And I was done? 617 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 2: I could sing? 618 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: Oh he had a voice like a male Nina Simone. 619 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 2: Did he? 620 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: Oh he could sing? Yeah. 621 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 622 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: I'm no expert at the caper, but I know I 623 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: know what's good and what's not. Yeah, and he was good, 624 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: I mean top top. Yeah. He did seem Australian idol. 625 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: Every family. 626 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 2: It didn't look like an ange prety good thing, like 627 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 2: is that a fact? Well, it's a great story about Gator. 628 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 2: Now at this stage, your early twenties, if that early 629 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 2: to mid Yes, from Aubrey. Your father's a stocking station agent. 630 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 2: You've got red hair and freckles. You would sort of 631 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 2: front up in that time, as I say, of a 632 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: country boy, sort of bloke. 633 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: I played on it, yeah, and you'd have all. 634 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 2: That pair of bluntstones or something. Although on Friday nights, 635 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 2: I mean I did go shopping in Double Bar and 636 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 2: I'd buy Italian silk shirts and Gabandine trousers and where 637 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 2: those out, you know, opened to the navel with a 638 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 2: gold chain. 639 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: Of course, when you're on the dance. 640 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 2: Look look, look look at where I'm flying, you know. 641 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 2: But but when you're in the ute you go the 642 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 2: other way. 643 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was a working man. I was in a 644 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: single it or a rough shirt and pair of jeans. Yeah, 645 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: I did that twice. Pick those up there and I 646 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: would take then take the stuff down to Melbourne to 647 00:30:58,240 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: the contact down there. 648 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 2: You drive down, yeah. 649 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: Always drive. And then we decided we'd fly it occasionally 650 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: we sort of there weren't any sniffer dogs and on 651 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: one occasion I took a suitcase full of sticks. It 652 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: was so jamm packed with tire sticks that you couldn't 653 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: get a bloody t shirt on top of it and 654 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: close the case. So it was just wrapped in plastic, 655 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: wipe down with methos so the smell wouldn't get out, 656 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: and then the case was locked. I wore a three 657 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: piece suit when I took stuff by my hair, and 658 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: I carried a copy of the Financial Times, and I 659 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: had a briefcase. 660 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 2: I was a businessman and an act, don't you yeah? 661 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: And I got off the plane and I went to 662 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: a phone to ring my contact, and I stayed on 663 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: the phone too long, and when I came back there 664 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: were two bags left on the carousel, one of them 665 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: was mine, and standing around the carousel were I think twenty, 666 00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: possibly more, but twenty Commonwealth Police in uniform. And I 667 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: had a decision to make walk away and suffer the contact. 668 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,239 Speaker 1: No I know, I know, I had to pick up 669 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: my bag. So instead of me going over in amongst 670 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: the thirty or twenty police and picking the bag up, 671 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: I hobbled over to a lame copper standing on his 672 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: own and I said, mate, I've got a crooked lead, 673 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: do you reckon? You could go and grab that big bag, 674 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: can't we And he said, yeah, sure, and he went 675 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: over and he picked it up and he willed it. 676 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: He couldn't carry. He wheeled a time that is gold, 677 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: and I said, thanks very much, and I kept wheeling it. 678 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: At Melbourne Airport there used to be a big glass 679 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: window and it was reflective, of course, and I just 680 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: kept looking at the glass to see if they came 681 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: for me, and they didn't. If they'd come for me, 682 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: I was going to abandon and bolt, but they didn't 683 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: come for me, and I wheeled it off and I 684 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: got the deal donee that was seen in today's. 685 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 2: Terms buddhistics, there'd be a lot of money in today's terms. 686 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: I think it was a round one thousand and then. 687 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: So what's that forty five almost fifty years ago? Was 688 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: fifty years ago? Actually that would be I would have 689 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: to be in the millions. 690 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 2: So this is very early seventies. 691 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, seventy three, seventy four. 692 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's a lot of money. I was a 693 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 2: cadet journalist earning very small money. But I earned about 694 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 2: three thousand dollars in a year in nine to seventy five. 695 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: And yes, I know, I shake my head still to 696 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: this day when I think about it, Where did you 697 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: deliver that? I can't say. No, tour Blake, it's a 698 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, we're dead. 699 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, no. 700 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: And he's got a memory of this blake. He's a 701 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: nasty fella, is it? Yeah? But roughly with suburb to Iraq? 702 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: Is there right? 703 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 2: Yeah? And did he live that? 704 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: He lived around the corner from there. I can't remember 705 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: the suburb. But he had a business into Iraq that 706 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: he ran the business from. Did he He took me 707 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: on one occasion. I would let him have more of 708 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: a now like two thousand sticks on consignment, and I'd 709 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: stayed at his house and he brings the money back. 710 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: But he wanted to do it five thousand stick or 711 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: something like that, and I said, no, I can't let 712 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: that go. You'll have to take me with you. So 713 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: he drove me in this convoluted track all over the 714 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: place to get to this place. And we walk in 715 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: it so dark and it's a big establishment, big room, 716 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: and there's a Blake sitting in there with a pile 717 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: of cash on the table. We delivered the five thousand 718 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: sticks to him. He hands the money over. We go 719 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: out and we hop in his car and he drives 720 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: off and he goes back to his house and he said, 721 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,240 Speaker 1: that went pretty well. And I said, yeah, look, next time, 722 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: why don't you go directly to the place. And I'd 723 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: picked up it was a reception center and I can't remember. 724 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: Let's call it White Dove. I can't rember. It's called 725 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,320 Speaker 1: And I pulled a leaflet off the desk a White 726 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: Dove reception center. I said, or I could deal directly 727 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: with the baker White Dove. What do you reckon? He 728 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: was embarrassed. He was embarrassed. 729 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, that contact inter Iraq would appear to the world 730 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 2: to be a legit businessman. 731 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: Absolutely. 732 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 2: What background was he? 733 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: He sold? 734 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 2: He sold goods. Yeah, that's all I'll say. Yeah, I 735 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 2: don't identify much. 736 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: And what about what other place that was over? That 737 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: was the kind of time I visited there. There there 738 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: was obviously the blake ran the show and he was 739 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 1: making some money on the side. A lot of people 740 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: in lots of different businesses, fronts, genuine fronts, were making 741 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,479 Speaker 1: a lot of money out of smoker. Yeah, I don't 742 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: know what happened. I don't know whether those people get 743 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: involved in powder in smack or I saw. 744 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 2: Meth so your guesstimate is that there's there's a lot 745 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 2: of substantial fortunes been propped up or made much much 746 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 2: bigger than just those those guys running their businesses to Iraq. 747 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 2: There are national businessmen and I'm not even going to 748 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 2: go close to try to identify them, and I don't 749 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 2: know for sure that I'm right, but the people one 750 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 2: or two got knighted, I think possibly the people I 751 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 2: mixed with did business with these people. And there is 752 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,399 Speaker 2: no doubt in my mind that there are people who 753 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 2: have got huge fortunes based on illegal activity, just like 754 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 2: Joe Kennedy in American Fortune. Very interesting, isn't it, And 755 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 2: people who probably had no great They weren't sort of hippies, 756 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 2: they weren't. They weren't they weren't keen on drugs. Business businessman, 757 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 2: pure and simple, and some of them might have come 758 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 2: out of war torn Europe as young. 759 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 1: And some of them, I think you may be well 760 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: correctly so there it's pretty hard cases. Yeah, I think 761 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: that it was in many cases. I think it was 762 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: the idea of being involved with the hard men. They 763 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: as they saw at the hard men of the game, 764 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 1: rubbing shoulders with out and out killers, and criminals, and 765 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: I think they enjoyed the game of keeping the authorities 766 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: at bay, even taunting the authorities at times, denying their 767 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: involvement in these matters, but making it quite clear that 768 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: they were more or less saying catch me if you can, 769 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: I reckon. Yeah. And none of them have ever been 770 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: brought to book, is that right? Well, none have been named, 771 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:30,280 Speaker 1: not to say. 772 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 2: You can recall several of these people, but you've never 773 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 2: seen them come undone. Yeah, Yeah, that's interesting. So they 774 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 2: were the money by silence. Yeah, we hear about the 775 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 2: ones that come unstuck. We don't hear about. What you 776 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,800 Speaker 2: don't hear about is the invisible because it stays invisible. 777 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't. And I think if you're in that game, 778 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: you have no scruples and you'll sacrifice anybody as long 779 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: as you get out of it, okay. And I think 780 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 1: there have been people who've had to pay a price, 781 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: and it's been explained to them quietly that they either 782 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: cop it on the chin or things will be nasty. 783 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. 784 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,879 Speaker 1: And everybody's got a family, Andrew, Yeah, so we want 785 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: to protect it, don't you. 786 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 2: That's right. People kept backing the wrap. 787 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: And this is all here saying I wasn't involved in 788 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: any of that, so that's not part of my book, 789 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: but it's les that's part of this The too. 790 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 2: Writer it is podcast to writer Rod, we've heard about 791 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 2: your adventures in Sydney, and next week I think we 792 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 2: might hear about your adventures in Adelaide when you were 793 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,359 Speaker 2: hiding out there keeping your head low but not that low. 794 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was an interesting time in Adelaide And here 795 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 1: I am. They didn't get me. 796 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,280 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald 797 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:53,280 Speaker 2: Sun production for true crime Australia. Our producer is Johnny Burton. 798 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 2: For my columns, features and more, go to harold'sun dot 799 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 2: com dot Au forward slash Andrew Rule one word. For 800 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:09,280 Speaker 2: advertising inquiries, go to news podcasts sold at news dot 801 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 2: com dot au. That is all one word news podcasts 802 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 2: sold And if you want further information about this episode, 803 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,240 Speaker 2: links are in the description.