Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven Am.
Speaker 1: There's a group of people who, during our most recent
Speaker 1: public health crisis, felt completely abandoned, those who suffered vaccine injuries.
Speaker 1: It's a rare event, but it happens. And during the pandemic,
Speaker 1: those that had happened to say they were deserted by
Speaker 1: their friends, health services and ultimately the government, who they
Speaker 1: say failed to deliver on its promised compensation scheme. And
Speaker 1: when a system like that fails, a vacuum is left
Speaker 1: which can be filled by misinformation and conspiracy. Today, reporter
Speaker 1: at the ABC's background briefing Madison Conorton on the shortcomings
Speaker 1: of the COVID vaccination compensation scheme and what it means
Speaker 1: for public trust. It's Thursday, November twenty one. Madison. Hello,
Speaker 1: it's great to have you on the show.
Speaker 2: Hey, review.
Speaker 1: So we're talking about people who got vaccinated for COVID nineteen,
Speaker 1: as we were all asked to do during the pandemic,
Speaker 1: but for these people, something went wrong after they did that.
Speaker 1: So can you tell me more about the people that
Speaker 1: you spoke to it and what they say happened.
Speaker 2: So a lot of.
Speaker 3: Our reporting focuses on This woman named Michelle Michelle Fonder.
Speaker 3: She's actually really sought after a music photographer, so she's
Speaker 3: worked with Australian musicians like Rule and Amy shark Ab
Speaker 3: original traveled the world shot magazine covers, album covers, and
Speaker 3: she described herself to us as someone who'd never had
Speaker 3: issues before with vaccines.
Speaker 4: I've taken every vaccine that has ever existed that we
Speaker 4: were able to take up until this point, you know,
Speaker 4: like it's I've traveled to different places where you've had
Speaker 4: to take stuff.
Speaker 3: But she was pretty upfront that she had some questions
Speaker 3: around the COVID vaccines, particularly because I'm sure you remember
Speaker 3: the news that there was like this blood clotting issue
Speaker 3: that was coming up with the Astrozeneca vaccine.
Speaker 2: There is more information tonight about the Oxford Astrozenica vaccine
Speaker 2: and therese reports about rare cases of blood clots the
Speaker 2: eused drug regulator.
Speaker 3: So she said that that was like in her mind
Speaker 3: when she was deciding on getting vaccinated, and I remember.
Speaker 4: Being relieved that we were eligible for PISA at the time.
Speaker 3: She ended up getting the PHISA vaccine, which most Australians did,
Speaker 3: and she told us that a few days after that
Speaker 3: she started experiencing some heart symptoms when she was lying
Speaker 3: in bed, pretty intense chest pains as well, and she
Speaker 3: said she contacted a friend of hers who was a nurse,
Speaker 3: and the nurse was like, you know, go to hospital.
Speaker 2: They'll check you out and let you know if anything's wrong.
Speaker 3: They ran some tests and nothing you know, concerning was
Speaker 3: popping up, and so she was sent home. But the
Speaker 3: episodes just kept happening. You know, she couldn't even walk
Speaker 3: upstairs without the heart rate spiking, so it was really
Speaker 3: impacting her life. She went back to hospital again, nothing
Speaker 3: was showing up that was of concern, and then after
Speaker 3: she got her second dose of the fire's A vaccine,
Speaker 3: this pattern sort of happened again and then all of.
Speaker 4: A sudden, I don't know where, heart rate spike, just
Speaker 4: this crippling chest pain.
Speaker 3: And that's when she told us she started to think
Speaker 3: that this might be linked to the vaccine, and so
Speaker 3: the third time she went to hospital, she told hospital
Speaker 3: staff that that was her suspicion.
Speaker 2: She was sort of pulled into a side room by a.
Speaker 3: Nurse who told her that she should seek therapy for
Speaker 3: her anxiety.
Speaker 2: And that was pretty shocking for Michelle.
Speaker 3: She said she felt like she'd shown up to hospital
Speaker 3: trying to get help for these symptoms that were really
Speaker 3: scaring her, and she was just being told like, it's
Speaker 3: in your head.
Speaker 4: I just felt like, at my lowest, most vulnerable point
Speaker 4: of my life, when I felt like I was going
Speaker 4: to die, this woman is telling me I'm crazy. Like
Speaker 4: I can't expressed you what that feels like. So I
Speaker 4: just got up and left and I just remember walking
Speaker 4: out into the street hysterically crying, going, I don't know
Speaker 4: what to do.
Speaker 1: Where did she turn to next?
Speaker 3: So, I mean, Michelle did what a lot of people
Speaker 3: do when it comes to health questions these days. She
Speaker 3: went online, and she kind of described going down the
Speaker 3: rabbit hole to us of read it to something on Twitter,
Speaker 3: to Facebook groups, finding other people who had quite similar
Speaker 3: stories to her. And when she was on these groups,
Speaker 3: when she was looking online, there was also just so
Speaker 3: much conspiracy theory content, and you know, there was anti
Speaker 3: vaccine content, and Michelle said that she really had to
Speaker 3: make a choice not to engage with that stuff, not
Speaker 3: to get sort of sucked in. The Other thing that
Speaker 3: was really interesting about what happened to Michelle is that
Speaker 3: she had a pretty big online following, and she started
Speaker 3: talking about what she was experiencing, and she said that
Speaker 3: the reaction to that was kind of totally unexpected.
Speaker 5: People that are like really really pro vaccine would be
Speaker 5: like you are lying, where's your proof, or just like
Speaker 5: you're just a shill for the anti vaxes.
Speaker 2: At the same time, though, she was like, I was
Speaker 2: also copying it from anti vaxeres.
Speaker 1: And so did Michelle manage to get a diagnosis in
Speaker 1: the end, and was her condition connected to the vaccine
Speaker 1: that she received?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So eventually she got in to see a cardiologist
Speaker 3: who determined that her condition was in line with what
Speaker 3: we're seeing with vaccine induced pericarditis. And so perricarditis is
Speaker 3: an inflammation of the part and it's a really well
Speaker 3: established side effect of mRNA COVID vaccine. So it's not
Speaker 3: a controversial diagnosis, but it's very.
Speaker 1: Rare, okay, And so when we're talking about this group
Speaker 1: of people that Michelle is one of people who suffered
Speaker 1: a vaccine injury during COVID, how many people are we
Speaker 1: talking about here and how serious can the consequences be?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the big picture is like when we say rare,
Speaker 3: we do mean rare. Only sixteen people in Australia died
Speaker 3: from a COVID vaccine out of more than sixty eight
Speaker 3: million doses that were delivered, so again rare. Katie Lee's
Speaker 3: was actually one of these sixteen people. So we actually
Speaker 3: spoke to Katie's parents, Penny and e In, and Katie's
Speaker 3: parents actually have a letter from New South Wales Health
Speaker 3: that confirms that she died from the rare clotting disorder
Speaker 3: that was caused by her ASTROZENKA vaccine. And I think
Speaker 3: the thing that was quite surprising about their story was
Speaker 3: the reaction that they got from people when speaking about
Speaker 3: what had happened to Katie.
Speaker 6: Katie loved performance. Independent theater was a very big part
Speaker 6: of her life. The thing that gave her energy and
Speaker 6: a smile on her face was performing.
Speaker 3: Penny told us about the fact that they set up
Speaker 3: this fellowship in Katie's memory that was to help other
Speaker 3: young women who loved theater. But the local council that
Speaker 3: was helping with some of the funding for the fellowship
Speaker 3: pushed back really hard on including Katie's cause of death
Speaker 3: on the website.
Speaker 6: They said, because we're a pro vaccine organization, we don't
Speaker 6: want you to to actually put that Katie died from
Speaker 6: the AstraZeneca vaccine.
Speaker 2: Which Penny found really hard to hear.
Speaker 3: It sort of made her feel like she was being
Speaker 3: cast as an anti vaxxer just for talking about what
Speaker 3: had happened to her daughter. And they applied through the
Speaker 3: compensation scheme that the government had set up for COVID
Speaker 3: nineteen vaccines, and through that scheme they were awarded seventy
Speaker 3: thousand dollars for Katie's death, and Penny told us that
Speaker 3: that figure was really galling for them, and she felt
Speaker 3: like it just reflected that the government had absolutely no
Speaker 3: understanding of the impact that Katie's death had on their family.
Speaker 6: That was the most insulting thing that was very hard
Speaker 6: to accept. We felt really really angry, really let down
Speaker 6: and deserted.
Speaker 1: After the break, how Australia's vaccine compensation scheme fell short
Speaker 1: of its promises, Madison, I want to talk more about
Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen vaccine compensation scheme. What was promised and
Speaker 1: how does that compare in terms of what played out
Speaker 1: and what was actually offered in the end.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So this compensation scheme is really interesting. Was set
Speaker 3: up by the federal government for the COVID vaccines during
Speaker 3: the pandemic, and it's actually the first time Australia has
Speaker 3: ever had a compensation scheme like this for vaccines, despite
Speaker 3: the fact that experts have been asking for one since
Speaker 3: the nineteen eighties. Is what we were told. But when
Speaker 3: we were doing these interviews with people, we found that
Speaker 3: a lot of people were not eligible for the scheme.
Speaker 3: So it looks like about eight percent of claims have
Speaker 3: been approved at this point. I mean, take Michelle, right,
Speaker 3: So a cardiologist determined that what she was likely dealing
Speaker 3: with was vaccine induced pericarditist, so that's one of the
Speaker 3: recognized conditions you can apply to the scheme under. But
Speaker 3: when Michelle went to look online and see if she
Speaker 3: was eligible, she found out that she couldn't apply because
Speaker 3: she'd never been hospitalized.
Speaker 1: Right, but she'd gone to hospital, they just hadn't admitted her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so she'd gone to hospital three times, she showed
Speaker 3: up to emergency, but she'd never been admitted to hospital
Speaker 3: and therefore she's not eligible. The other eligibility element for
Speaker 3: the compensation scheme is much more controversial. There are ten
Speaker 3: conditions that are eligible under the scheme. People that are
Speaker 3: experiencing other things are not eligible, so sometimes these are
Speaker 3: referred to as like gray area symptoms. They're things that
Speaker 3: people started experiencing after their vaccine, but research has not
Speaker 3: linked them to a COVID nineteen side effect. Those people
Speaker 3: can't apply for the compensation scheme. We spoke to a
Speaker 3: lot of experts for this story, and one that sort
Speaker 3: of spoke quite instructively about the compensation scheme is a
Speaker 3: guy called Marco Rizzi who's an associate professor of law
Speaker 3: at the University of Western Australia. He said that best
Speaker 3: practice around the world doesn't sort of knit causation and
Speaker 3: eligibility together in the way that Australia's scheme did. Instead,
Speaker 3: they take what he described as like a most probable
Speaker 3: cause approach, which means that people don't necessarily have to
Speaker 3: prove causality for their claim. It helps people feel heard.
Speaker 3: But he also said that a functioning compensation scheme can
Speaker 3: steer people away from litigation, you know, thrashing out in
Speaker 3: court whether a vaccine caused XYZ. That can actually have
Speaker 3: ripple effects for public trust in vaccination, which you.
Speaker 2: Don't want to do.
Speaker 3: But in Australia there has been litigation that's been launched.
Speaker 3: So there's a class action that was launched last year.
Speaker 3: According to the lawyers that are running it, more than
Speaker 3: nineteen hundred people have signed on their interest to take
Speaker 3: part in the action.
Speaker 1: Right and Madison. Do you get the sense that the
Speaker 1: reason that these people were overlooked or not listened to
Speaker 1: is because to talk too much about the possibility of
Speaker 1: harm being caused by a vaccine that was seen as dangerous,
Speaker 1: particularly during the peak of COVID. So was there this
Speaker 1: element of, you know, let's not give this too much
Speaker 1: attention because we need everyone to focus on the greater good.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: From Nick Coatsworth's perspective, you know, serving as Deputy Chief
Speaker 3: Medical Officer during the pandemic, he certainly felt that because
Speaker 3: the focus was the role out and there was a
Speaker 3: fear of, you know, scaring people off getting vaccinated, that
Speaker 3: there were people that weren't listened to when they should
Speaker 3: have been.
Speaker 7: I don't think that there were hundreds or thousands or
Speaker 7: tens of thousands of deaths caused by the vaccine. I
Speaker 7: want to make that absolutely clear, but I do think
Speaker 7: that there were significant numbers of people who were likely
Speaker 7: dismissed when they should have been heard.
Speaker 3: From Michelle's perspective as someone who went through this, she
Speaker 3: definitely felt like that was the case, that she was
Speaker 3: being ignored because it wasn't convenient.
Speaker 4: We were collateral damaged for the greater good. That's the
Speaker 4: part that's really hard to swallow, is that there's a
Speaker 4: human toll that they know about that is not acknowledged.
Speaker 3: This is a relatively small group of people that's important
Speaker 3: to keep in mind, but it does seem like there
Speaker 3: are wider ramifications for trust, and I think it's interesting
Speaker 3: that that is one thing that the COVID inquiry found.
Speaker 3: So the government did a long COVID inquiry which just dropped.
Speaker 2: And it found that because of a number.
Speaker 3: Of policy choices that had been made, from lockdowns to
Speaker 3: mandates to transparency of communication, there had been sort of
Speaker 3: quite a significant loss of trust within the community in
Speaker 3: government and that that would have an impact on the
Speaker 3: levers that the government was able to pull in a
Speaker 3: future pandemic.
Speaker 1: Madison, thank you so much for via Tad, Thanks so
Speaker 1: much for having me. You can hear more of Madison's
Speaker 1: reporting on this story with her co reporter Taynan King
Speaker 1: on the ABC's background briefing program Also in the news today,
Speaker 1: legislation aiming to ban Australians under the age of sixteen
Speaker 1: from social media is set to be introduced to Parliament today,
Speaker 1: with a cross bench already briefed overnight. It comes as
Speaker 1: a wide ranging parliamentary inquiry predominantly focused on the impact
Speaker 1: of social media on young people handed down its recommendations,
Speaker 1: which did not include backing a social media ban for
Speaker 1: under sixteens, and in his first public remarks since the
Speaker 1: re election of Donald Trump, Australian Ambassador to the US
Speaker 1: Kevin Rudd says he's ready to work with the incoming
Speaker 1: US administration. Kevin Rudd has previously been highly critical of Trump,
Speaker 1: calling the President elect a village idiot.
Speaker 2: I'm Ruby Jones.
Speaker 1: This is seven am. See you tomorrow.
Speaker 3: M