Speaker 1: Just after midnight on June the fourteenth, the peaceful Barley
Speaker 1: Knight was disrupted with gunfire.
Speaker 2: So here a sledgehammerer was involved as well.
Speaker 1: A pretty small sledgehammer which will become important to this case.
Speaker 1: Is basically breaking down the door and everyone in that
Speaker 1: inside that villa is pretty worried about what's going on,
Speaker 1: and they should be.
Speaker 2: They've got guns, and those guns get used.
Speaker 3: I'm Andrew Rule. This is Life and Crimes. This week
Speaker 3: we have a guest host, our producer John Burton.
Speaker 2: Thanks Andrew and while Andrew's away on assignment, and to
Speaker 2: make up for Andrew's absence is Ace crime reporter and
Speaker 2: sometimes host of Life and Crimes himself and also frequent
Speaker 2: guest Anthony Dowsley.
Speaker 4: Get a Johnty, very good to be here.
Speaker 2: Now. We're here today to talk more about a topic
Speaker 2: that Andrew touched on a couple of weeks ago, and
Speaker 2: that is the shooting in Bali of a couple of
Speaker 2: Melbourne gentlemen and the aftermath, because you've been reporting on
Speaker 2: that quite extensively over the last few weeks.
Speaker 1: It's a horrific crime, the kind of thing where you
Speaker 1: think you're going to a idyllic island to have a
Speaker 1: bit of a break. There's four people we think, now
Speaker 1: maybe five people. The police seem to think there's five
Speaker 1: people in that villa in a sort of on the
Speaker 1: outskirts north of Cooter. It's a beautiful place that they
Speaker 1: were staying. That was a new build and we'll get
Speaker 1: into who was staying there. But it was a villa
Speaker 1: with plenty of bedrooms, three bedrooms inside, a big kitchen
Speaker 1: area I think, and a pool in the middle of
Speaker 1: it all. And just after midnight on June the fourteenth,
Speaker 1: the peaceful barley night was disrupted with gunfire.
Speaker 2: So let's talk about who was there and who they
Speaker 2: are and who we know was at the scene. So
Speaker 2: there were two gentlemen there. Who were they Melbourne Blocks here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll start with a fellow by the name of
Speaker 1: Sana Ghanam. Now he had been there for months and
Speaker 1: he's a familiar face in Bali for years, so it's
Speaker 1: a place where people know him. And he was taking
Speaker 1: out a long lease on this particular villa called Kazar
Speaker 1: Centensia Kazusentsia. Do we know you're a bit more familiar
Speaker 1: with the Indonesian people, Kasar I think is a kasa.
Speaker 2: I think Cassa is Spanish, is it not? Yes?
Speaker 1: And Santisia s a n tis ya. How would that
Speaker 1: be pronounced?
Speaker 2: I have no idea. I might need to take that
Speaker 2: on notice and find out what Santisia is later on.
Speaker 1: So Kazasentisia is where they were staying. Sana Ghanam is
Speaker 1: a Melbourne player. You might say, he's been known to police.
Speaker 1: He went to jail and twenty fifteen and he was
Speaker 1: the boyfriend and partner of Danielle Stephens. Now she has
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to do with this other than her partner's
Speaker 1: been caught up in the middle of it or her
Speaker 1: ex partner.
Speaker 2: And who is she?
Speaker 1: Danielle Stephens is the daughter of ROBERTA. Williams, stepdaughter of
Speaker 1: Carl Williams.
Speaker 2: Right, and Andrew touched upon this a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's right when he says that Danielle was the
Speaker 1: partner of Santa Aganum some years ago. They had a
Speaker 1: child together. And I can tell you that because they
Speaker 1: do have a child together. Danielle Stephens did visit Sannah
Speaker 1: in Bali so that he could spend some time with
Speaker 1: his daughter.
Speaker 2: So Danielle's visited but also they've had another visitor.
Speaker 4: As you mentioned.
Speaker 1: Yes, so Sana has been in and out of the country,
Speaker 1: but he had a long term lease on that villa,
Speaker 1: the luxury villa in a place near Mungoo Beach. If
Speaker 1: I'm pronouncing that right. Probably it's sort of you know north,
Speaker 1: you go past Semygnac and you go into the Kangoo
Speaker 1: area and they just keep on sort of building and
Speaker 1: building up that beach and sort of inland a little bit.
Speaker 1: Is this beautiful new villa. Well, it's set of villas actually,
Speaker 1: and they were in Villa.
Speaker 2: One, right, so it's a compound.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And who.
Speaker 2: Turns up to Villa two or three or four or five.
Speaker 1: Well, two sisters by the name of Jasmine and Daniella
Speaker 1: Gordias arrive in Bali on June the twelfth and they
Speaker 1: head over to see Sona. Now Daniella Gordias is Sonna's
Speaker 1: girlfriend partner, and Jasmine's there. She's taking some time away
Speaker 1: as well with her partner, a fellow by the name
Speaker 1: of Ziven Radmanovic. So they arrive and they all go
Speaker 1: there because the sisters know each other, and one of
Speaker 1: the sisters, no Sanna, So this is.
Speaker 2: A family affair, but it's a family affair from the sisters.
Speaker 2: It's not a Zivan and Summer are who are mates.
Speaker 1: It seems to be that way that the sisters are
Speaker 1: the connection. Yep, that there is the possibility that and
Speaker 1: son I also know each other, but the sisters definitely
Speaker 1: are the connection.
Speaker 2: It's a small world, a small world in Melbourne.
Speaker 1: And they're over there for thirtieth birthday. It's Jasmine's thirtieth birthday.
Speaker 1: It's going to be her birthday a few days later
Speaker 1: after they arrive.
Speaker 2: Right, but then everything sort of goes a bit crazy.
Speaker 1: Well they don't know it, but they are being tracked
Speaker 1: by a team of well deadly people. They are being
Speaker 1: probably watched. Someone has found where they are and there
Speaker 1: is some evidence that's been collected of CCTV of the
Speaker 1: alleged hit men in this scheme and this plot looking
Speaker 1: at the villa. They're a court on camera. It's alleged
Speaker 1: scouting it out just hours before this crime goes down
Speaker 1: and just after they're there on June thirteen, they're looking
Speaker 1: at it. They come back and forth from where they're
Speaker 1: staying and then they collect their equipment and they come
Speaker 1: armed with hammers and guns and just after midnight, so
Speaker 1: on the morning of June fourteen, there is pounding on
Speaker 1: the wooden door to that villa.
Speaker 2: So I here a sledgehammer was involved as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty small sledgehammer which will become important to this case.
Speaker 1: Is basically breaking down the door. And everyone in that
Speaker 1: inside that villa is pretty worried about what's going on,
Speaker 1: and they should be.
Speaker 2: And we believe there are three miscreants involved at this point.
Speaker 3: Yees.
Speaker 1: So the allegation is that three Australians the people that
Speaker 1: are raiding this house. So one Australian stays outside. He's
Speaker 1: the alleged look at man. His name is Darcy Jensen.
Speaker 1: There are two alleged high hit men or gunman who
Speaker 1: actually raid the property, go inside and start going into
Speaker 1: the bear dreams and rounding up who they want to
Speaker 1: round up.
Speaker 2: Right, and as you said, they've got guns and those
Speaker 2: guns get used.
Speaker 1: Yep, you helped me identify this. The police have picked
Speaker 1: up an Indonesian handgun side arm the military use. Not
Speaker 1: that many of them made you fifty years ago at least.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an Indonesian copy of a thing called a
Speaker 2: Browning high Power which is a very old design. I
Speaker 2: think it was in the nineteen thirties. It was created
Speaker 2: and has sort of been in service around the world,
Speaker 2: and various places have licensed it or have made their
Speaker 2: version of it. And an Indonesian firm made a version
Speaker 2: of this Browning high power I think in the sixties
Speaker 2: and seventies, I think was most of their production run,
Speaker 2: and I think they only made about thirty thousand of them.
Speaker 2: But they were kicking around.
Speaker 1: So a gun, I think it's called a pin dad
Speaker 1: Pa one or something like that. One, yes, that has
Speaker 1: been found seven hundred meters away in a small river,
Speaker 1: and they found another gun since in a drain. But
Speaker 1: there's a whole sort of you know, alleged getaway plan
Speaker 1: and these Australian men arrested at separate points in the
Speaker 1: days afterwards. But it's a horrific crime. Inside that villa.
Speaker 1: Santaganam is shot most likely six times in different places
Speaker 1: in his body's legs just are his back buttock sort
Speaker 1: of area, and lived and he might have got a
Speaker 1: little fragment in his head as well, and he lived.
Speaker 1: But he's kickboxer. The word is that he was, you know,
Speaker 1: from anyone who might know these sort of situations that
Speaker 1: he would have been able to potentially fight his way
Speaker 1: out of a bad confrontation like that. We'll have to
Speaker 1: wait to hear what, you know, what happened with him,
Speaker 1: how he managed to sort of escape. But in another room,
Speaker 1: in a bathroom, Zeven Redmanovic is assaulted and he's shot
Speaker 1: dead before these guys flee, right, And they did flee
Speaker 1: on motorbikes and a car. So the three of them,
Speaker 1: it's alleged that they were in separate vehicles, two small bikes,
Speaker 1: motorbikes and a car.
Speaker 2: And the Indonesian authorities moved with a fair amount of speed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we have been looking at this. There's an
Speaker 1: interesting story with the hammer. It's got a bar code
Speaker 1: on it.
Speaker 2: Right, local local hammer, Bunny's hammer.
Speaker 1: It's from a hardware store in Bali, right, And because
Speaker 1: it's got the bar code on it, we think they've
Speaker 1: been able to trace that really quickly because it's left
Speaker 1: at the crime scene.
Speaker 2: So they've basically got almost a point of sale, you know,
Speaker 2: that was brought from here.
Speaker 1: So they go and they look at the CCTV from that,
Speaker 1: and we think that they identify Jensen from that.
Speaker 2: You're always equatee CCTV with places like Melbourne and you
Speaker 2: know we have in them all and they do police
Speaker 2: a very good job.
Speaker 1: But it's list I'm holding up here for you is
Speaker 1: sort of all of the CCTV they've been gathering. It
Speaker 1: extends from you know, when one of the suspects arrives
Speaker 1: in early June, all the way through to after they leave,
Speaker 1: after these guys that are trying to make their alleged
Speaker 1: get away.
Speaker 2: And let the record show that there's what twenty thirty
Speaker 2: you are.
Speaker 4: Out to be.
Speaker 1: They've got a lot of ct TV and witness accounts
Speaker 1: as well are included in there. But it's all about
Speaker 1: the movements of these guys and the hotels they stayed at,
Speaker 1: and the rental bikes that they pick up, and the
Speaker 1: rental cars and the hammer and all sorts of things
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: I have to say, Yeah, the Indonesian authorities have jumped
Speaker 2: on this in a fairly profound way. So the three
Speaker 2: alleged defenders have gone their separate ways.
Speaker 1: They have all cut into the Balinese Indonesian police headed
Speaker 1: to Jakarta, yep. And one of them doesn't make it
Speaker 1: onto a flight.
Speaker 4: He's arrested.
Speaker 1: That being Darcy Jensen in Jakarta, YEP at.
Speaker 2: The airport YEP. The other two get on flights YEP.
Speaker 1: They get all the way to Singapore. And we're talking
Speaker 1: about a man by the name of Payat Tu Poo
Speaker 1: or Payout middlemore Tu Poo and another man by the
Speaker 1: name of Mevlet Costcoon.
Speaker 2: And where were they on their way? So one of
Speaker 2: them is to Singapore.
Speaker 1: Well, they go to Singapore and they transit there to Cambodia.
Speaker 1: So they end up in non Pen, right, and they
Speaker 1: don't get through that airport and they head back.
Speaker 4: They're told they have to go back.
Speaker 2: Well, I would dare say they're escorted back. So they
Speaker 2: get to non Pin, they don't get out of the airport.
Speaker 2: They don't have that lovely moment when you get through
Speaker 2: customs and you're finally in the country and you've pulled
Speaker 2: it behind you. They get pulled up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's multiple agencies involved, including into pol by that point.
Speaker 1: So they can't make it through the gates.
Speaker 2: Right, and they get turned back. They get sent back
Speaker 2: onto a flight to Singapore and they.
Speaker 1: Get back detained and then extra righted back to Jakarta, YEP.
Speaker 1: And then as we speak right now. They're they're in Bali, yep,
Speaker 1: and they're in detention.
Speaker 2: And we've seen some of those photos with things over
Speaker 2: faces and.
Speaker 1: It's quite a scary sight. It's well confronting, I would say.
Speaker 1: When they the three men that have been I don't
Speaker 1: think they've necessarily been charged. But it's a different system
Speaker 1: over there that it's as if they've been charged.
Speaker 2: It's more of an inquirble system, isn't it. It's less
Speaker 2: adversarial than it is.
Speaker 1: It's all a bit confusing on that front. But they
Speaker 1: have been paraded in front of the media who are
Speaker 1: alple to shout at them in hoods prison issue orange
Speaker 1: T shirts and wearing shorts and thongs and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But they're wearing leg chains right okay, and you know
Speaker 1: you could hear.
Speaker 4: The leg chains.
Speaker 1: I watched it on a stream on the night that
Speaker 1: it was all happening, and it's just something else.
Speaker 2: And this is they would have been in is it
Speaker 2: corokabund prison?
Speaker 1: They as far as I know, they haven't been there yet.
Speaker 1: They're being held in police stations remand demand type of
Speaker 1: police headquarters kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Okay, So they've been sort of parayed in front of
Speaker 2: the medium. We should say that they're in Indonesia's justice system,
Speaker 2: they're not in the Australian ones. So it's a slightly
Speaker 2: different sort of way that we can talk about them
Speaker 2: than if they were in Australia's justice system.
Speaker 4: But the stakes are very high.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So what are the stakes for these three men.
Speaker 1: Well, in Indonesia, premeditated murder does carry the death penalty.
Speaker 1: If you are prosecuted and found guilty of that crime,
Speaker 1: you can be you can be put to death. It
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean anyone will be in this instance, but
Speaker 1: Australia opposes the death penalty, and it's very sensitive for
Speaker 1: agencies like the AFP to give any assistance to the
Speaker 1: Indonesians regarding any taligence that they may or may not have.
Speaker 2: Of course, the listeners might recall the Bali nine saga,
Speaker 2: and there was certainly a lot of sensitivities, particularly around
Speaker 2: the AFP with that case. That's right, and it ended
Speaker 2: in the execution of two of those Bali nine.
Speaker 4: Yes, it did so.
Speaker 2: While they've been paraded, and while that's going on, police
Speaker 2: have continued their inqui Indonesian police have continued their inquiries.
Speaker 2: You mentioned that they'd found a gun that was in
Speaker 2: a sore or like a creek or.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's one.
Speaker 1: More recently, there's been a gun found in a drain, right,
Speaker 1: so two guns, So there's two guns that they are testing.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: They're doing DNA analysis on other clothing and so forth
Speaker 1: to see if there's the DNA from the victim on
Speaker 1: any of the suspects closed or vice versa. They are
Speaker 1: working with all this CCTV to track their entire movements
Speaker 1: while they were there. They are also the interesting thing
Speaker 1: about this is that we don't know a motive. We
Speaker 1: just know that it's basically alleged to be an international
Speaker 1: hit and the Indonesians would not take kindly to that,
Speaker 1: and that's probably why they're putting so much effort into
Speaker 1: solving this crime. But the motivations have led to speculations
Speaker 1: back in Australia about why this all happened.
Speaker 2: So that's the thing. As you mentioned international, it's allegedly
Speaker 2: Australians killing an Australian. All the Australians are under arrest
Speaker 2: and there were Australians that were attacked, so it suggests
Speaker 2: that international might mean Australia where this beef or this
Speaker 2: conflict has arisen. So what can you sketch in there?
Speaker 2: What do we know about what has happened surrounding that.
Speaker 1: The scuttle butt around the underworld is that there was
Speaker 1: a debt or a ripoff of crime syndicate and that
Speaker 1: has led to a confrontation between parties. It hasn't been
Speaker 1: resolved and this incident is a result of that.
Speaker 2: It must be a big disagreement to be crossing international
Speaker 2: lines and sourcing guns locally. And I suppose the hamil
Speaker 2: would be quite easy to source locally if they're going
Speaker 2: into the equivalent of Bunnings.
Speaker 4: But the guns, yeah, so much, ye yep.
Speaker 1: It's not hard for the suggestion to come up that
Speaker 1: there's been a serious beef back here, most likely in Australia,
Speaker 1: most likely in Melbourne, but we don't know. The situation
Speaker 1: may be that a very powerful person has been aggrieved
Speaker 1: about what has happened and pulls out all stops to
Speaker 1: hunt down whoever they think has done the wrong thing
Speaker 1: by them, But.
Speaker 2: We don't know what the aggrievement might be.
Speaker 4: Well, it's you know, you hear all sorts of things.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It could be a that everything from a rip off
Speaker 1: quote unquote to a debt and you know that's going
Speaker 1: to have to come out in the wash.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. So another thing that has happened in the mix
Speaker 2: of this is a fire bombing of a business and
Speaker 2: we don't know the extent that it is all links
Speaker 2: to this, but it's unfortunate in any case. Can you
Speaker 2: tell us about that.
Speaker 1: Daniella Gordias, who is Son Gharnum's partner, returned home to Melbourne,
Speaker 1: and her sister Jasmine has returned home to Melbourne, and
Speaker 1: the body of Redmanovic has also been repatriated. On July tenth,
Speaker 1: so only a couple of weeks ago, at about eleven
Speaker 1: o'clock at night, there's CCTV of a man in a
Speaker 1: high vis vest smashing the window of Danielle Gordias's a
Speaker 1: sort of skin clinic beauty shop and throwing some sort
Speaker 1: of Molotov cocktail in there. You set fire to it, basically,
Speaker 1: and it's now all boarded up and Victoria Police and
Speaker 1: probably other agencies are looking at the links if there
Speaker 1: are links, which she there may be to what happened
Speaker 1: in Bali. It's just obviously it's not hard to say, well,
Speaker 1: there's been a major incident in Bali where someone's died
Speaker 1: and another man's shot and then a few weeks later,
Speaker 1: a month later, there's a fire in this place in South.
Speaker 2: Era, absolutely and we don't know, and authorities are investigating,
Speaker 2: and apart from the monetary loss there and all of that,
Speaker 2: just the human toll there of this family they've come
Speaker 2: back bringing back the repatriated body. And to find out
Speaker 2: then that your businesses is firebombed, it's got to be
Speaker 2: a huge, just blow on blow.
Speaker 1: So Danniella Gordiaz is the partner of Snaganum who survived
Speaker 1: the shooting, and we wonder whether the fire bombing might
Speaker 1: be a message to him. Right well, time will tell
Speaker 1: on that one what happens from here, Anthony.
Speaker 4: We wait.
Speaker 1: Australian lawyers are being I guess brief as we speak,
Speaker 1: to help Indonesian lawyers defend that these three people, these
Speaker 1: three Australians that are in detention and whether that leads
Speaker 1: to prosecution or not, we'll have to find out. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't get any more serious. You're in a foreign place,
Speaker 1: you're in detention, you are away from your family, and
Speaker 1: we'll have to see what happens there.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because, as you say, the law works
Speaker 2: quite differently over there. And when we do have these
Speaker 2: big international crime bits of news that have come out
Speaker 2: of particularly Bali but also Indonesia that involves Australians, there
Speaker 2: is a media contingent and there is an entire media
Speaker 2: story around that, so that will launch up as well.
Speaker 2: And I have to say some of our reporting that
Speaker 2: we've had so far, the authorities seem to be quite
Speaker 2: open in terms of the information that they're giving us.
Speaker 1: There's a lot more access in Bali and right across
Speaker 1: Indonesia there's a media spokesman that tells you what evidence
Speaker 1: they've found. You know, you can get access to look
Speaker 1: at CCTV all sorts of things. It's quite different than
Speaker 1: sort of the darkness that we are in here when
Speaker 1: there's ever a major crime. So for an investigative reporter
Speaker 1: like yourself, well, we're working with one of our colleagues
Speaker 1: in Bali. Her name is Kaimang Viani and she's a
Speaker 1: freelancer and we just you know, tik taking with them
Speaker 1: and trying to get to the bottom of it all.
Speaker 2: But if you needed to go over and report, and
Speaker 2: if you needed a hapless podcast producer to come along
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 1: I think that's I think that we're making a call
Speaker 1: now to our busslees. Are we we want a trip?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's it's it's you know, I'm sure that
Speaker 1: the Indonesians like working with Indonesian journeys, but you know,
Speaker 1: what's going to happen here and the access you will
Speaker 1: eventually get to the people if they're charged, if they're
Speaker 1: actually going to be prosecuted, you can, you know, you
Speaker 1: can talk to them once they're you know, if they
Speaker 1: go to Kerricaban or one of those prisons.
Speaker 2: Is that what it's called corocaban? I think yeah, But
Speaker 2: that was speaking of another major trial, obviously, the chappelle
Speaker 2: Kaulbye Amita Swell. That's it reporters yelling at her, you
Speaker 2: know what did you do? Yeah, just across the quadrangle
Speaker 2: to her as she was sort of being taken from
Speaker 2: place to place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you'd never see anything like that here. It's
Speaker 1: it's really kind of a I guess what you call
Speaker 1: it completely open justice. Some would say it's a free
Speaker 1: for all. It's it's just very different. These guys that
Speaker 1: are in detention over there, two of them are from Sydney,
Speaker 1: one of them was a plumber until relatively recently and
Speaker 1: and the other two one of them is from Melbourne.
Speaker 1: And one of the interesting things is that relatively little
Speaker 1: is known.
Speaker 2: About them, so not known to authorities.
Speaker 1: Not particularly right, mostly minor stuff.
Speaker 2: So it will be interesting to see how they wind
Speaker 2: their way through the Indonesian justice system.
Speaker 1: If they are involved, it will be very interesting to
Speaker 1: know who they're working for.
Speaker 2: Wesh, you'll have to wait and find out. And with that,
Speaker 2: thank you very much for coming in. I know you're busy,
Speaker 2: and we'll be reporting on this for the foreseeable future
Speaker 2: and following these three through the justice system. But until then,
Speaker 2: all is left to say is to say thank you
Speaker 2: doubles for your time today measure as always, Thanks.
Speaker 3: ABC, thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is a Sunday
Speaker 3: Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia. Our producer is
Speaker 3: Johnty Burton. For my columns, features and more, go to
Speaker 3: Heroldsun dot com dot Au, forward slash Andrew rule one word.
Speaker 3: For advertising inquiries, go to news Podcasts sold at news
Speaker 3: dot com dot Au. That is all one word news
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