WEBVTT - Inside the Bali shooting investigation 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:07.160 Just after midnight on June the fourteenth, the peaceful Barley 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:09.119 Knight was disrupted with gunfire. 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:12.200 So here a sledgehammerer was involved as well. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:16.079 A pretty small sledgehammer which will become important to this case. 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:20.439 Is basically breaking down the door and everyone in that 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:24.080 inside that villa is pretty worried about what's going on, 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:25.079 and they should be. 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:29.640 They've got guns, and those guns get used. 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:33.320 I'm Andrew Rule. This is Life and Crimes. This week 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:38.159 we have a guest host, our producer John Burton. 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:42.320 Thanks Andrew and while Andrew's away on assignment, and to 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:46.000 make up for Andrew's absence is Ace crime reporter and 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:49.720 sometimes host of Life and Crimes himself and also frequent 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:51.320 guest Anthony Dowsley. 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.960 Get a Johnty, very good to be here. 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.880 Now. We're here today to talk more about a topic 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:00.279 that Andrew touched on a couple of weeks ago, and 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.920 that is the shooting in Bali of a couple of 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:08.959 Melbourne gentlemen and the aftermath, because you've been reporting on 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.120 that quite extensively over the last few weeks. 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:15.360 It's a horrific crime, the kind of thing where you 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.480 think you're going to a idyllic island to have a 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:22.240 bit of a break. There's four people we think, now 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.199 maybe five people. The police seem to think there's five 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:28.560 people in that villa in a sort of on the 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:34.360 outskirts north of Cooter. It's a beautiful place that they 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.840 were staying. That was a new build and we'll get 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:40.840 into who was staying there. But it was a villa 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.479 with plenty of bedrooms, three bedrooms inside, a big kitchen 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:46.600 area I think, and a pool in the middle of 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:51.440 it all. And just after midnight on June the fourteenth, 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:56.000 the peaceful barley night was disrupted with gunfire. 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.320 So let's talk about who was there and who they 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.840 are and who we know was at the scene. So 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.800 there were two gentlemen there. Who were they Melbourne Blocks here. 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.240 Yeah, we'll start with a fellow by the name of 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:14.040 Sana Ghanam. Now he had been there for months and 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:18.639 he's a familiar face in Bali for years, so it's 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.400 a place where people know him. And he was taking 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:27.120 out a long lease on this particular villa called Kazar 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:30.720 Centensia Kazusentsia. Do we know you're a bit more familiar 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:34.480 with the Indonesian people, Kasar I think is a kasa. 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.320 I think Cassa is Spanish, is it not? Yes? 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:41.359 And Santisia s a n tis ya. How would that 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:41.960 be pronounced? 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:43.800 I have no idea. I might need to take that 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.040 on notice and find out what Santisia is later on. 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:51.880 So Kazasentisia is where they were staying. Sana Ghanam is 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:56.080 a Melbourne player. You might say, he's been known to police. 0:02:56.560 --> 0:03:01.080 He went to jail and twenty fifteen and he was 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:06.400 the boyfriend and partner of Danielle Stephens. Now she has 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:09.600 absolutely nothing to do with this other than her partner's 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:10.960 been caught up in the middle of it or her 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:11.640 ex partner. 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:13.280 And who is she? 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:17.760 Danielle Stephens is the daughter of ROBERTA. Williams, stepdaughter of 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:18.600 Carl Williams. 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.920 Right, and Andrew touched upon this a couple of weeks ago. 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.720 Yeah, he's right when he says that Danielle was the 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.560 partner of Santa Aganum some years ago. They had a 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:34.560 child together. And I can tell you that because they 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:38.560 do have a child together. Danielle Stephens did visit Sannah 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.280 in Bali so that he could spend some time with 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:42.840 his daughter. 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.320 So Danielle's visited but also they've had another visitor. 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:46.720 As you mentioned. 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:52.040 Yes, so Sana has been in and out of the country, 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:56.000 but he had a long term lease on that villa, 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.080 the luxury villa in a place near Mungoo Beach. If 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:03.760 I'm pronouncing that right. Probably it's sort of you know north, 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:07.080 you go past Semygnac and you go into the Kangoo 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.840 area and they just keep on sort of building and 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:13.840 building up that beach and sort of inland a little bit. 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:18.760 Is this beautiful new villa. Well, it's set of villas actually, 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:20.360 and they were in Villa. 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.359 One, right, so it's a compound. 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:25.560 Yeah, yeah, And who. 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:27.880 Turns up to Villa two or three or four or five. 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:32.600 Well, two sisters by the name of Jasmine and Daniella 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:38.280 Gordias arrive in Bali on June the twelfth and they 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:42.120 head over to see Sona. Now Daniella Gordias is Sonna's 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:47.000 girlfriend partner, and Jasmine's there. She's taking some time away 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.920 as well with her partner, a fellow by the name 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:54.000 of Ziven Radmanovic. So they arrive and they all go 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.360 there because the sisters know each other, and one of 0:04:57.360 --> 0:04:59.160 the sisters, no Sanna, So this is. 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.080 A family affair, but it's a family affair from the sisters. 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.880 It's not a Zivan and Summer are who are mates. 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:08.000 It seems to be that way that the sisters are 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:11.560 the connection. Yep, that there is the possibility that and 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:13.800 son I also know each other, but the sisters definitely 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:14.400 are the connection. 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.000 It's a small world, a small world in Melbourne. 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.480 And they're over there for thirtieth birthday. It's Jasmine's thirtieth birthday. 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:21.760 It's going to be her birthday a few days later 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:22.680 after they arrive. 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.960 Right, but then everything sort of goes a bit crazy. 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.640 Well they don't know it, but they are being tracked 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:35.640 by a team of well deadly people. They are being 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:41.600 probably watched. Someone has found where they are and there 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:46.320 is some evidence that's been collected of CCTV of the 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:51.160 alleged hit men in this scheme and this plot looking 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:56.560 at the villa. They're a court on camera. It's alleged 0:05:56.720 --> 0:06:00.880 scouting it out just hours before this crime goes down 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:04.760 and just after they're there on June thirteen, they're looking 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:06.640 at it. They come back and forth from where they're 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:11.279 staying and then they collect their equipment and they come 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:17.159 armed with hammers and guns and just after midnight, so 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.279 on the morning of June fourteen, there is pounding on 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.800 the wooden door to that villa. 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.000 So I here a sledgehammer was involved as well. 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:30.159 Yeah, pretty small sledgehammer which will become important to this case. 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.520 Is basically breaking down the door. And everyone in that 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.480 inside that villa is pretty worried about what's going on, 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:39.479 and they should be. 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:42.520 And we believe there are three miscreants involved at this point. 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:43.640 Yees. 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.240 So the allegation is that three Australians the people that 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:53.560 are raiding this house. So one Australian stays outside. He's 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.919 the alleged look at man. His name is Darcy Jensen. 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.960 There are two alleged high hit men or gunman who 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:06.600 actually raid the property, go inside and start going into 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.320 the bear dreams and rounding up who they want to 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:10.000 round up. 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:15.320 Right, and as you said, they've got guns and those 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:16.239 guns get used. 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.440 Yep, you helped me identify this. The police have picked 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:24.240 up an Indonesian handgun side arm the military use. Not 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.160 that many of them made you fifty years ago at least. 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.880 Yeah, it's an Indonesian copy of a thing called a 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.000 Browning high Power which is a very old design. I 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.840 think it was in the nineteen thirties. It was created 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.360 and has sort of been in service around the world, 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:43.200 and various places have licensed it or have made their 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.560 version of it. And an Indonesian firm made a version 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.920 of this Browning high power I think in the sixties 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.280 and seventies, I think was most of their production run, 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:54.840 and I think they only made about thirty thousand of them. 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.000 But they were kicking around. 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.679 So a gun, I think it's called a pin dad 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.520 Pa one or something like that. One, yes, that has 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.320 been found seven hundred meters away in a small river, 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.120 and they found another gun since in a drain. But 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.280 there's a whole sort of you know, alleged getaway plan 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:18.360 and these Australian men arrested at separate points in the 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:24.400 days afterwards. But it's a horrific crime. Inside that villa. 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:30.080 Santaganam is shot most likely six times in different places 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.719 in his body's legs just are his back buttock sort 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.000 of area, and lived and he might have got a 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:38.319 little fragment in his head as well, and he lived. 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.960 But he's kickboxer. The word is that he was, you know, 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.480 from anyone who might know these sort of situations that 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.360 he would have been able to potentially fight his way 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.880 out of a bad confrontation like that. We'll have to 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:55.360 wait to hear what, you know, what happened with him, 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.800 how he managed to sort of escape. But in another room, 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:05.560 in a bathroom, Zeven Redmanovic is assaulted and he's shot 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.839 dead before these guys flee, right, And they did flee 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.800 on motorbikes and a car. So the three of them, 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.400 it's alleged that they were in separate vehicles, two small bikes, 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:17.200 motorbikes and a car. 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:21.200 And the Indonesian authorities moved with a fair amount of speed. 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:26.160 Yeah, and we have been looking at this. There's an 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.839 interesting story with the hammer. It's got a bar code 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:30.360 on it. 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.600 Right, local local hammer, Bunny's hammer. 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.360 It's from a hardware store in Bali, right, And because 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:38.920 it's got the bar code on it, we think they've 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.120 been able to trace that really quickly because it's left 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:41.959 at the crime scene. 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.120 So they've basically got almost a point of sale, you know, 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:46.120 that was brought from here. 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.840 So they go and they look at the CCTV from that, 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.600 and we think that they identify Jensen from that. 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:56.320 You're always equatee CCTV with places like Melbourne and you 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:58.240 know we have in them all and they do police 0:09:58.280 --> 0:09:59.040 a very good job. 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.960 But it's list I'm holding up here for you is 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.640 sort of all of the CCTV they've been gathering. It 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:10.000 extends from you know, when one of the suspects arrives 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.440 in early June, all the way through to after they leave, 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.600 after these guys that are trying to make their alleged 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:18.359 get away. 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.600 And let the record show that there's what twenty thirty 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:20.880 you are. 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:21.200 Out to be. 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.840 They've got a lot of ct TV and witness accounts 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.240 as well are included in there. But it's all about 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:30.400 the movements of these guys and the hotels they stayed at, 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.240 and the rental bikes that they pick up, and the 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.520 rental cars and the hammer and all sorts of things 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:35.880 like that. 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.720 I have to say, Yeah, the Indonesian authorities have jumped 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:42.320 on this in a fairly profound way. So the three 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:45.480 alleged defenders have gone their separate ways. 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:51.360 They have all cut into the Balinese Indonesian police headed 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:55.720 to Jakarta, yep. And one of them doesn't make it 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:56.360 onto a flight. 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:57.480 He's arrested. 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.760 That being Darcy Jensen in Jakarta, YEP at. 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.240 The airport YEP. The other two get on flights YEP. 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:07.160 They get all the way to Singapore. And we're talking 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.200 about a man by the name of Payat Tu Poo 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.280 or Payout middlemore Tu Poo and another man by the 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.560 name of Mevlet Costcoon. 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:18.200 And where were they on their way? So one of 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:19.240 them is to Singapore. 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.960 Well, they go to Singapore and they transit there to Cambodia. 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.360 So they end up in non Pen, right, and they 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.440 don't get through that airport and they head back. 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:28.840 They're told they have to go back. 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.959 Well, I would dare say they're escorted back. So they 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.079 get to non Pin, they don't get out of the airport. 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.560 They don't have that lovely moment when you get through 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.400 customs and you're finally in the country and you've pulled 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:40.880 it behind you. They get pulled up. 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.840 Yeah, there's multiple agencies involved, including into pol by that point. 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:47.240 So they can't make it through the gates. 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:49.439 Right, and they get turned back. They get sent back 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:50.880 onto a flight to Singapore and they. 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.280 Get back detained and then extra righted back to Jakarta, YEP. 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:57.840 And then as we speak right now. They're they're in Bali, yep, 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:00.000 and they're in detention. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.720 And we've seen some of those photos with things over 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:03.720 faces and. 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:08.120 It's quite a scary sight. It's well confronting, I would say. 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:11.800 When they the three men that have been I don't 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.680 think they've necessarily been charged. But it's a different system 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:16.880 over there that it's as if they've been charged. 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.680 It's more of an inquirble system, isn't it. It's less 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:20.839 adversarial than it is. 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.600 It's all a bit confusing on that front. But they 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.320 have been paraded in front of the media who are 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:30.120 alple to shout at them in hoods prison issue orange 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:34.560 T shirts and wearing shorts and thongs and stuff like that. 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.760 But they're wearing leg chains right okay, and you know 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:38.280 you could hear. 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:38.680 The leg chains. 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:40.800 I watched it on a stream on the night that 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.600 it was all happening, and it's just something else. 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:45.960 And this is they would have been in is it 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:47.000 corokabund prison? 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:49.679 They as far as I know, they haven't been there yet. 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.760 They're being held in police stations remand demand type of 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:54.360 police headquarters kind of thing. 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.160 Okay, So they've been sort of parayed in front of 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.920 the medium. We should say that they're in Indonesia's justice system, 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.200 they're not in the Australian ones. So it's a slightly 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.440 different sort of way that we can talk about them 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.360 than if they were in Australia's justice system. 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.800 But the stakes are very high. 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.800 Absolutely, So what are the stakes for these three men. 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:18.680 Well, in Indonesia, premeditated murder does carry the death penalty. 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.640 If you are prosecuted and found guilty of that crime, 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.120 you can be you can be put to death. It 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.320 doesn't necessarily mean anyone will be in this instance, but 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:33.320 Australia opposes the death penalty, and it's very sensitive for 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:37.560 agencies like the AFP to give any assistance to the 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.640 Indonesians regarding any taligence that they may or may not have. 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:45.439 Of course, the listeners might recall the Bali nine saga, 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.600 and there was certainly a lot of sensitivities, particularly around 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.600 the AFP with that case. That's right, and it ended 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.000 in the execution of two of those Bali nine. 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:55.079 Yes, it did so. 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.680 While they've been paraded, and while that's going on, police 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:03.400 have continued their inqui Indonesian police have continued their inquiries. 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.640 You mentioned that they'd found a gun that was in 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.240 a sore or like a creek or. 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:09.080 Yeah, there's one. 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:13.000 More recently, there's been a gun found in a drain, right, 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.200 so two guns, So there's two guns that they are testing. 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:16.760 Yep. 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:21.280 They're doing DNA analysis on other clothing and so forth 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:25.080 to see if there's the DNA from the victim on 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.840 any of the suspects closed or vice versa. They are 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:34.440 working with all this CCTV to track their entire movements 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:38.080 while they were there. They are also the interesting thing 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.440 about this is that we don't know a motive. We 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:45.640 just know that it's basically alleged to be an international 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.920 hit and the Indonesians would not take kindly to that, 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.680 and that's probably why they're putting so much effort into 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:58.400 solving this crime. But the motivations have led to speculations 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.120 back in Australia about why this all happened. 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:04.840 So that's the thing. As you mentioned international, it's allegedly 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:09.440 Australians killing an Australian. All the Australians are under arrest 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.560 and there were Australians that were attacked, so it suggests 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:16.720 that international might mean Australia where this beef or this 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.480 conflict has arisen. So what can you sketch in there? 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.520 What do we know about what has happened surrounding that. 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:30.040 The scuttle butt around the underworld is that there was 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:36.560 a debt or a ripoff of crime syndicate and that 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.640 has led to a confrontation between parties. It hasn't been 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:45.080 resolved and this incident is a result of that. 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:50.720 It must be a big disagreement to be crossing international 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:54.320 lines and sourcing guns locally. And I suppose the hamil 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.280 would be quite easy to source locally if they're going 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:57.440 into the equivalent of Bunnings. 0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.320 But the guns, yeah, so much, ye yep. 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:01.960 It's not hard for the suggestion to come up that 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:06.600 there's been a serious beef back here, most likely in Australia, 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:11.359 most likely in Melbourne, but we don't know. The situation 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:17.240 may be that a very powerful person has been aggrieved 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:21.360 about what has happened and pulls out all stops to 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:26.440 hunt down whoever they think has done the wrong thing 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:27.520 by them, But. 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:29.960 We don't know what the aggrievement might be. 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:32.600 Well, it's you know, you hear all sorts of things. 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:32.920 You know. 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.960 It could be a that everything from a rip off 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.120 quote unquote to a debt and you know that's going 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:42.760 to have to come out in the wash. 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:47.320 Absolutely. So another thing that has happened in the mix 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:51.640 of this is a fire bombing of a business and 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.720 we don't know the extent that it is all links 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.600 to this, but it's unfortunate in any case. Can you 0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:58.400 tell us about that. 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:05.240 Daniella Gordias, who is Son Gharnum's partner, returned home to Melbourne, 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.920 and her sister Jasmine has returned home to Melbourne, and 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:15.760 the body of Redmanovic has also been repatriated. On July tenth, 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.800 so only a couple of weeks ago, at about eleven 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.679 o'clock at night, there's CCTV of a man in a 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:26.359 high vis vest smashing the window of Danielle Gordias's a 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:31.680 sort of skin clinic beauty shop and throwing some sort 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.160 of Molotov cocktail in there. You set fire to it, basically, 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:40.280 and it's now all boarded up and Victoria Police and 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.359 probably other agencies are looking at the links if there 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:49.480 are links, which she there may be to what happened 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.600 in Bali. It's just obviously it's not hard to say, well, 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:59.320 there's been a major incident in Bali where someone's died 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:03.080 and another man's shot and then a few weeks later, 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.600 a month later, there's a fire in this place in South. 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:11.800 Era, absolutely and we don't know, and authorities are investigating, 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.760 and apart from the monetary loss there and all of that, 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:22.120 just the human toll there of this family they've come 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:26.080 back bringing back the repatriated body. And to find out 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.840 then that your businesses is firebombed, it's got to be 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:31.760 a huge, just blow on blow. 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:38.840 So Danniella Gordiaz is the partner of Snaganum who survived 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:44.840 the shooting, and we wonder whether the fire bombing might 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.880 be a message to him. Right well, time will tell 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.560 on that one what happens from here, Anthony. 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:53.720 We wait. 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.800 Australian lawyers are being I guess brief as we speak, 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:01.960 to help Indonesian lawyers defend that these three people, these 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:06.080 three Australians that are in detention and whether that leads 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:08.879 to prosecution or not, we'll have to find out. But 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.679 it doesn't get any more serious. You're in a foreign place, 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:17.359 you're in detention, you are away from your family, and 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:18.720 we'll have to see what happens there. 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.320 And it's interesting because, as you say, the law works 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:26.680 quite differently over there. And when we do have these 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:31.440 big international crime bits of news that have come out 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:36.600 of particularly Bali but also Indonesia that involves Australians, there 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:40.080 is a media contingent and there is an entire media 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:42.680 story around that, so that will launch up as well. 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:44.720 And I have to say some of our reporting that 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.800 we've had so far, the authorities seem to be quite 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:51.720 open in terms of the information that they're giving us. 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:55.200 There's a lot more access in Bali and right across 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.439 Indonesia there's a media spokesman that tells you what evidence 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:00.840 they've found. You know, you can get access to look 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.680 at CCTV all sorts of things. It's quite different than 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:07.080 sort of the darkness that we are in here when 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.720 there's ever a major crime. So for an investigative reporter 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.000 like yourself, well, we're working with one of our colleagues 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.439 in Bali. Her name is Kaimang Viani and she's a 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.880 freelancer and we just you know, tik taking with them 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:23.160 and trying to get to the bottom of it all. 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:25.959 But if you needed to go over and report, and 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:29.240 if you needed a hapless podcast producer to come along 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:29.520 with you. 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:31.800 I think that's I think that we're making a call 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:33.880 now to our busslees. Are we we want a trip? 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:34.160 Okay? 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:37.960 Yeah, well it's it's it's you know, I'm sure that 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:41.639 the Indonesians like working with Indonesian journeys, but you know, 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:43.920 what's going to happen here and the access you will 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:46.920 eventually get to the people if they're charged, if they're 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.040 actually going to be prosecuted, you can, you know, you 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.439 can talk to them once they're you know, if they 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:53.280 go to Kerricaban or one of those prisons. 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.320 Is that what it's called corocaban? I think yeah, But 0:20:56.359 --> 0:21:00.479 that was speaking of another major trial, obviously, the chappelle 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:04.080 Kaulbye Amita Swell. That's it reporters yelling at her, you 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:07.600 know what did you do? Yeah, just across the quadrangle 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:09.600 to her as she was sort of being taken from 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:10.280 place to place. 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:14.040 Yeah, it's you'd never see anything like that here. It's 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:16.840 it's really kind of a I guess what you call 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.760 it completely open justice. Some would say it's a free 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.679 for all. It's it's just very different. These guys that 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:27.560 are in detention over there, two of them are from Sydney, 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:33.040 one of them was a plumber until relatively recently and 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.840 and the other two one of them is from Melbourne. 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.960 And one of the interesting things is that relatively little 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:40.520 is known. 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:44.720 About them, so not known to authorities. 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.199 Not particularly right, mostly minor stuff. 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:52.439 So it will be interesting to see how they wind 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:54.760 their way through the Indonesian justice system. 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.320