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Speaker 1: Just after midnight on June the fourteenth, the peaceful Barley

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Speaker 1: Knight was disrupted with gunfire.

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Speaker 2: So here a sledgehammerer was involved as well.

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Speaker 1: A pretty small sledgehammer which will become important to this case.

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Speaker 1: Is basically breaking down the door and everyone in that

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Speaker 1: inside that villa is pretty worried about what's going on,

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Speaker 1: and they should be.

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Speaker 2: They've got guns, and those guns get used.

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Speaker 3: I'm Andrew Rule. This is Life and Crimes. This week

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Speaker 3: we have a guest host, our producer John Burton.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Andrew and while Andrew's away on assignment, and to

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Speaker 2: make up for Andrew's absence is Ace crime reporter and

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Speaker 2: sometimes host of Life and Crimes himself and also frequent

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Speaker 2: guest Anthony Dowsley.

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Speaker 4: Get a Johnty, very good to be here.

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Speaker 2: Now. We're here today to talk more about a topic

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Speaker 2: that Andrew touched on a couple of weeks ago, and

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Speaker 2: that is the shooting in Bali of a couple of

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Speaker 2: Melbourne gentlemen and the aftermath, because you've been reporting on

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Speaker 2: that quite extensively over the last few weeks.

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Speaker 1: It's a horrific crime, the kind of thing where you

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Speaker 1: think you're going to a idyllic island to have a

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Speaker 1: bit of a break. There's four people we think, now

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Speaker 1: maybe five people. The police seem to think there's five

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Speaker 1: people in that villa in a sort of on the

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Speaker 1: outskirts north of Cooter. It's a beautiful place that they

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Speaker 1: were staying. That was a new build and we'll get

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Speaker 1: into who was staying there. But it was a villa

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Speaker 1: with plenty of bedrooms, three bedrooms inside, a big kitchen

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Speaker 1: area I think, and a pool in the middle of

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Speaker 1: it all. And just after midnight on June the fourteenth,

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Speaker 1: the peaceful barley night was disrupted with gunfire.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about who was there and who they

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Speaker 2: are and who we know was at the scene. So

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Speaker 2: there were two gentlemen there. Who were they Melbourne Blocks here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll start with a fellow by the name of

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Speaker 1: Sana Ghanam. Now he had been there for months and

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Speaker 1: he's a familiar face in Bali for years, so it's

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Speaker 1: a place where people know him. And he was taking

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Speaker 1: out a long lease on this particular villa called Kazar

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Speaker 1: Centensia Kazusentsia. Do we know you're a bit more familiar

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Speaker 1: with the Indonesian people, Kasar I think is a kasa.

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Speaker 2: I think Cassa is Spanish, is it not? Yes?

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Speaker 1: And Santisia s a n tis ya. How would that

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Speaker 1: be pronounced?

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Speaker 2: I have no idea. I might need to take that

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Speaker 2: on notice and find out what Santisia is later on.

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Speaker 1: So Kazasentisia is where they were staying. Sana Ghanam is

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Speaker 1: a Melbourne player. You might say, he's been known to police.

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Speaker 1: He went to jail and twenty fifteen and he was

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Speaker 1: the boyfriend and partner of Danielle Stephens. Now she has

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Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to do with this other than her partner's

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Speaker 1: been caught up in the middle of it or her

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Speaker 1: ex partner.

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Speaker 2: And who is she?

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Speaker 1: Danielle Stephens is the daughter of ROBERTA. Williams, stepdaughter of

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Speaker 1: Carl Williams.

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Speaker 2: Right, and Andrew touched upon this a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's right when he says that Danielle was the

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Speaker 1: partner of Santa Aganum some years ago. They had a

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Speaker 1: child together. And I can tell you that because they

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Speaker 1: do have a child together. Danielle Stephens did visit Sannah

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Speaker 1: in Bali so that he could spend some time with

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Speaker 1: his daughter.

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Speaker 2: So Danielle's visited but also they've had another visitor.

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Speaker 4: As you mentioned.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so Sana has been in and out of the country,

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Speaker 1: but he had a long term lease on that villa,

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Speaker 1: the luxury villa in a place near Mungoo Beach. If

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Speaker 1: I'm pronouncing that right. Probably it's sort of you know north,

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Speaker 1: you go past Semygnac and you go into the Kangoo

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Speaker 1: area and they just keep on sort of building and

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Speaker 1: building up that beach and sort of inland a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Is this beautiful new villa. Well, it's set of villas actually,

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Speaker 1: and they were in Villa.

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Speaker 2: One, right, so it's a compound.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And who.

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Speaker 2: Turns up to Villa two or three or four or five.

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Speaker 1: Well, two sisters by the name of Jasmine and Daniella

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Speaker 1: Gordias arrive in Bali on June the twelfth and they

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Speaker 1: head over to see Sona. Now Daniella Gordias is Sonna's

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Speaker 1: girlfriend partner, and Jasmine's there. She's taking some time away

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Speaker 1: as well with her partner, a fellow by the name

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Speaker 1: of Ziven Radmanovic. So they arrive and they all go

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Speaker 1: there because the sisters know each other, and one of

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Speaker 1: the sisters, no Sanna, So this is.

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Speaker 2: A family affair, but it's a family affair from the sisters.

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Speaker 2: It's not a Zivan and Summer are who are mates.

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Speaker 1: It seems to be that way that the sisters are

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Speaker 1: the connection. Yep, that there is the possibility that and

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Speaker 1: son I also know each other, but the sisters definitely

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Speaker 1: are the connection.

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Speaker 2: It's a small world, a small world in Melbourne.

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Speaker 1: And they're over there for thirtieth birthday. It's Jasmine's thirtieth birthday.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be her birthday a few days later

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Speaker 1: after they arrive.

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Speaker 2: Right, but then everything sort of goes a bit crazy.

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Speaker 1: Well they don't know it, but they are being tracked

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Speaker 1: by a team of well deadly people. They are being

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Speaker 1: probably watched. Someone has found where they are and there

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Speaker 1: is some evidence that's been collected of CCTV of the

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Speaker 1: alleged hit men in this scheme and this plot looking

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Speaker 1: at the villa. They're a court on camera. It's alleged

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Speaker 1: scouting it out just hours before this crime goes down

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Speaker 1: and just after they're there on June thirteen, they're looking

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Speaker 1: at it. They come back and forth from where they're

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Speaker 1: staying and then they collect their equipment and they come

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Speaker 1: armed with hammers and guns and just after midnight, so

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Speaker 1: on the morning of June fourteen, there is pounding on

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Speaker 1: the wooden door to that villa.

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Speaker 2: So I here a sledgehammer was involved as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty small sledgehammer which will become important to this case.

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Speaker 1: Is basically breaking down the door. And everyone in that

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Speaker 1: inside that villa is pretty worried about what's going on,

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Speaker 1: and they should be.

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Speaker 2: And we believe there are three miscreants involved at this point.

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Speaker 3: Yees.

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Speaker 1: So the allegation is that three Australians the people that

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Speaker 1: are raiding this house. So one Australian stays outside. He's

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Speaker 1: the alleged look at man. His name is Darcy Jensen.

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Speaker 1: There are two alleged high hit men or gunman who

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Speaker 1: actually raid the property, go inside and start going into

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Speaker 1: the bear dreams and rounding up who they want to

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Speaker 1: round up.

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Speaker 2: Right, and as you said, they've got guns and those

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Speaker 2: guns get used.

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Speaker 1: Yep, you helped me identify this. The police have picked

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Speaker 1: up an Indonesian handgun side arm the military use. Not

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Speaker 1: that many of them made you fifty years ago at least.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an Indonesian copy of a thing called a

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Speaker 2: Browning high Power which is a very old design. I

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Speaker 2: think it was in the nineteen thirties. It was created

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Speaker 2: and has sort of been in service around the world,

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Speaker 2: and various places have licensed it or have made their

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Speaker 2: version of it. And an Indonesian firm made a version

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Speaker 2: of this Browning high power I think in the sixties

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Speaker 2: and seventies, I think was most of their production run,

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Speaker 2: and I think they only made about thirty thousand of them.

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Speaker 2: But they were kicking around.

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Speaker 1: So a gun, I think it's called a pin dad

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Speaker 1: Pa one or something like that. One, yes, that has

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Speaker 1: been found seven hundred meters away in a small river,

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Speaker 1: and they found another gun since in a drain. But

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Speaker 1: there's a whole sort of you know, alleged getaway plan

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Speaker 1: and these Australian men arrested at separate points in the

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Speaker 1: days afterwards. But it's a horrific crime. Inside that villa.

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Speaker 1: Santaganam is shot most likely six times in different places

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Speaker 1: in his body's legs just are his back buttock sort

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Speaker 1: of area, and lived and he might have got a

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Speaker 1: little fragment in his head as well, and he lived.

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Speaker 1: But he's kickboxer. The word is that he was, you know,

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Speaker 1: from anyone who might know these sort of situations that

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Speaker 1: he would have been able to potentially fight his way

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Speaker 1: out of a bad confrontation like that. We'll have to

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Speaker 1: wait to hear what, you know, what happened with him,

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Speaker 1: how he managed to sort of escape. But in another room,

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Speaker 1: in a bathroom, Zeven Redmanovic is assaulted and he's shot

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Speaker 1: dead before these guys flee, right, And they did flee

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Speaker 1: on motorbikes and a car. So the three of them,

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Speaker 1: it's alleged that they were in separate vehicles, two small bikes,

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Speaker 1: motorbikes and a car.

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Speaker 2: And the Indonesian authorities moved with a fair amount of speed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we have been looking at this. There's an

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Speaker 1: interesting story with the hammer. It's got a bar code

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Speaker 1: on it.

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Speaker 2: Right, local local hammer, Bunny's hammer.

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Speaker 1: It's from a hardware store in Bali, right, And because

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Speaker 1: it's got the bar code on it, we think they've

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Speaker 1: been able to trace that really quickly because it's left

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Speaker 1: at the crime scene.

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Speaker 2: So they've basically got almost a point of sale, you know,

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Speaker 2: that was brought from here.

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Speaker 1: So they go and they look at the CCTV from that,

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Speaker 1: and we think that they identify Jensen from that.

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Speaker 2: You're always equatee CCTV with places like Melbourne and you

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Speaker 2: know we have in them all and they do police

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Speaker 2: a very good job.

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Speaker 1: But it's list I'm holding up here for you is

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Speaker 1: sort of all of the CCTV they've been gathering. It

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Speaker 1: extends from you know, when one of the suspects arrives

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Speaker 1: in early June, all the way through to after they leave,

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Speaker 1: after these guys that are trying to make their alleged

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Speaker 1: get away.

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Speaker 2: And let the record show that there's what twenty thirty

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Speaker 2: you are.

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Speaker 4: Out to be.

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Speaker 1: They've got a lot of ct TV and witness accounts

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Speaker 1: as well are included in there. But it's all about

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Speaker 1: the movements of these guys and the hotels they stayed at,

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Speaker 1: and the rental bikes that they pick up, and the

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Speaker 1: rental cars and the hammer and all sorts of things

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: I have to say, Yeah, the Indonesian authorities have jumped

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Speaker 2: on this in a fairly profound way. So the three

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Speaker 2: alleged defenders have gone their separate ways.

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Speaker 1: They have all cut into the Balinese Indonesian police headed

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Speaker 1: to Jakarta, yep. And one of them doesn't make it

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Speaker 1: onto a flight.

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Speaker 4: He's arrested.

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Speaker 1: That being Darcy Jensen in Jakarta, YEP at.

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Speaker 2: The airport YEP. The other two get on flights YEP.

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Speaker 1: They get all the way to Singapore. And we're talking

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Speaker 1: about a man by the name of Payat Tu Poo

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Speaker 1: or Payout middlemore Tu Poo and another man by the

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Speaker 1: name of Mevlet Costcoon.

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Speaker 2: And where were they on their way? So one of

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Speaker 2: them is to Singapore.

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Speaker 1: Well, they go to Singapore and they transit there to Cambodia.

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Speaker 1: So they end up in non Pen, right, and they

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Speaker 1: don't get through that airport and they head back.

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Speaker 4: They're told they have to go back.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would dare say they're escorted back. So they

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Speaker 2: get to non Pin, they don't get out of the airport.

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Speaker 2: They don't have that lovely moment when you get through

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Speaker 2: customs and you're finally in the country and you've pulled

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Speaker 2: it behind you. They get pulled up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's multiple agencies involved, including into pol by that point.

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Speaker 1: So they can't make it through the gates.

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Speaker 2: Right, and they get turned back. They get sent back

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Speaker 2: onto a flight to Singapore and they.

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Speaker 1: Get back detained and then extra righted back to Jakarta, YEP.

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Speaker 1: And then as we speak right now. They're they're in Bali, yep,

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Speaker 1: and they're in detention.

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Speaker 2: And we've seen some of those photos with things over

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Speaker 2: faces and.

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Speaker 1: It's quite a scary sight. It's well confronting, I would say.

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Speaker 1: When they the three men that have been I don't

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Speaker 1: think they've necessarily been charged. But it's a different system

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Speaker 1: over there that it's as if they've been charged.

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Speaker 2: It's more of an inquirble system, isn't it. It's less

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Speaker 2: adversarial than it is.

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Speaker 1: It's all a bit confusing on that front. But they

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Speaker 1: have been paraded in front of the media who are

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Speaker 1: alple to shout at them in hoods prison issue orange

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Speaker 1: T shirts and wearing shorts and thongs and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: But they're wearing leg chains right okay, and you know

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Speaker 1: you could hear.

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Speaker 4: The leg chains.

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Speaker 1: I watched it on a stream on the night that

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Speaker 1: it was all happening, and it's just something else.

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Speaker 2: And this is they would have been in is it

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Speaker 2: corokabund prison?

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Speaker 1: They as far as I know, they haven't been there yet.

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Speaker 1: They're being held in police stations remand demand type of

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Speaker 1: police headquarters kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So they've been sort of parayed in front of

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Speaker 2: the medium. We should say that they're in Indonesia's justice system,

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Speaker 2: they're not in the Australian ones. So it's a slightly

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Speaker 2: different sort of way that we can talk about them

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Speaker 2: than if they were in Australia's justice system.

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Speaker 4: But the stakes are very high.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, So what are the stakes for these three men.

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Speaker 1: Well, in Indonesia, premeditated murder does carry the death penalty.

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Speaker 1: If you are prosecuted and found guilty of that crime,

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Speaker 1: you can be you can be put to death. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean anyone will be in this instance, but

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Speaker 1: Australia opposes the death penalty, and it's very sensitive for

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Speaker 1: agencies like the AFP to give any assistance to the

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Speaker 1: Indonesians regarding any taligence that they may or may not have.

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Speaker 2: Of course, the listeners might recall the Bali nine saga,

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Speaker 2: and there was certainly a lot of sensitivities, particularly around

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Speaker 2: the AFP with that case. That's right, and it ended

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Speaker 2: in the execution of two of those Bali nine.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it did so.

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Speaker 2: While they've been paraded, and while that's going on, police

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Speaker 2: have continued their inqui Indonesian police have continued their inquiries.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned that they'd found a gun that was in

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Speaker 2: a sore or like a creek or.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's one.

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Speaker 1: More recently, there's been a gun found in a drain, right,

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Speaker 1: so two guns, So there's two guns that they are testing.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: They're doing DNA analysis on other clothing and so forth

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Speaker 1: to see if there's the DNA from the victim on

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Speaker 1: any of the suspects closed or vice versa. They are

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Speaker 1: working with all this CCTV to track their entire movements

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Speaker 1: while they were there. They are also the interesting thing

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Speaker 1: about this is that we don't know a motive. We

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Speaker 1: just know that it's basically alleged to be an international

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Speaker 1: hit and the Indonesians would not take kindly to that,

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Speaker 1: and that's probably why they're putting so much effort into

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Speaker 1: solving this crime. But the motivations have led to speculations

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Speaker 1: back in Australia about why this all happened.

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Speaker 2: So that's the thing. As you mentioned international, it's allegedly

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Speaker 2: Australians killing an Australian. All the Australians are under arrest

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Speaker 2: and there were Australians that were attacked, so it suggests

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Speaker 2: that international might mean Australia where this beef or this

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Speaker 2: conflict has arisen. So what can you sketch in there?

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Speaker 2: What do we know about what has happened surrounding that.

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Speaker 1: The scuttle butt around the underworld is that there was

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Speaker 1: a debt or a ripoff of crime syndicate and that

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Speaker 1: has led to a confrontation between parties. It hasn't been

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Speaker 1: resolved and this incident is a result of that.

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Speaker 2: It must be a big disagreement to be crossing international

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Speaker 2: lines and sourcing guns locally. And I suppose the hamil

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Speaker 2: would be quite easy to source locally if they're going

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Speaker 2: into the equivalent of Bunnings.

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Speaker 4: But the guns, yeah, so much, ye yep.

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Speaker 1: It's not hard for the suggestion to come up that

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Speaker 1: there's been a serious beef back here, most likely in Australia,

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Speaker 1: most likely in Melbourne, but we don't know. The situation

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Speaker 1: may be that a very powerful person has been aggrieved

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Speaker 1: about what has happened and pulls out all stops to

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Speaker 1: hunt down whoever they think has done the wrong thing

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Speaker 1: by them, But.

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Speaker 2: We don't know what the aggrievement might be.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's you know, you hear all sorts of things.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: It could be a that everything from a rip off

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Speaker 1: quote unquote to a debt and you know that's going

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Speaker 1: to have to come out in the wash.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. So another thing that has happened in the mix

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Speaker 2: of this is a fire bombing of a business and

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Speaker 2: we don't know the extent that it is all links

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Speaker 2: to this, but it's unfortunate in any case. Can you

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Speaker 2: tell us about that.

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Speaker 1: Daniella Gordias, who is Son Gharnum's partner, returned home to Melbourne,

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Speaker 1: and her sister Jasmine has returned home to Melbourne, and

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Speaker 1: the body of Redmanovic has also been repatriated. On July tenth,

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Speaker 1: so only a couple of weeks ago, at about eleven

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Speaker 1: o'clock at night, there's CCTV of a man in a

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Speaker 1: high vis vest smashing the window of Danielle Gordias's a

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Speaker 1: sort of skin clinic beauty shop and throwing some sort

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Speaker 1: of Molotov cocktail in there. You set fire to it, basically,

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Speaker 1: and it's now all boarded up and Victoria Police and

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Speaker 1: probably other agencies are looking at the links if there

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Speaker 1: are links, which she there may be to what happened

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Speaker 1: in Bali. It's just obviously it's not hard to say, well,

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Speaker 1: there's been a major incident in Bali where someone's died

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Speaker 1: and another man's shot and then a few weeks later,

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Speaker 1: a month later, there's a fire in this place in South.

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Speaker 2: Era, absolutely and we don't know, and authorities are investigating,

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Speaker 2: and apart from the monetary loss there and all of that,

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Speaker 2: just the human toll there of this family they've come

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Speaker 2: back bringing back the repatriated body. And to find out

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Speaker 2: then that your businesses is firebombed, it's got to be

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Speaker 2: a huge, just blow on blow.

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Speaker 1: So Danniella Gordiaz is the partner of Snaganum who survived

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Speaker 1: the shooting, and we wonder whether the fire bombing might

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Speaker 1: be a message to him. Right well, time will tell

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Speaker 1: on that one what happens from here, Anthony.

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Speaker 4: We wait.

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Speaker 1: Australian lawyers are being I guess brief as we speak,

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Speaker 1: to help Indonesian lawyers defend that these three people, these

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Speaker 1: three Australians that are in detention and whether that leads

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Speaker 1: to prosecution or not, we'll have to find out. But

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Speaker 1: it doesn't get any more serious. You're in a foreign place,

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Speaker 1: you're in detention, you are away from your family, and

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Speaker 1: we'll have to see what happens there.

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Speaker 2: And it's interesting because, as you say, the law works

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Speaker 2: quite differently over there. And when we do have these

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Speaker 2: big international crime bits of news that have come out

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Speaker 2: of particularly Bali but also Indonesia that involves Australians, there

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Speaker 2: is a media contingent and there is an entire media

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Speaker 2: story around that, so that will launch up as well.

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Speaker 2: And I have to say some of our reporting that

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Speaker 2: we've had so far, the authorities seem to be quite

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Speaker 2: open in terms of the information that they're giving us.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot more access in Bali and right across

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Speaker 1: Indonesia there's a media spokesman that tells you what evidence

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Speaker 1: they've found. You know, you can get access to look

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Speaker 1: at CCTV all sorts of things. It's quite different than

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Speaker 1: sort of the darkness that we are in here when

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Speaker 1: there's ever a major crime. So for an investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: like yourself, well, we're working with one of our colleagues

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Speaker 1: in Bali. Her name is Kaimang Viani and she's a

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Speaker 1: freelancer and we just you know, tik taking with them

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Speaker 1: and trying to get to the bottom of it all.

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Speaker 2: But if you needed to go over and report, and

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Speaker 2: if you needed a hapless podcast producer to come along

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Speaker 2: with you.

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Speaker 1: I think that's I think that we're making a call

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Speaker 1: now to our busslees. Are we we want a trip?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's it's it's you know, I'm sure that

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Speaker 1: the Indonesians like working with Indonesian journeys, but you know,

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen here and the access you will

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Speaker 1: eventually get to the people if they're charged, if they're

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Speaker 1: actually going to be prosecuted, you can, you know, you

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Speaker 1: can talk to them once they're you know, if they

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Speaker 1: go to Kerricaban or one of those prisons.

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Speaker 2: Is that what it's called corocaban? I think yeah, But

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Speaker 2: that was speaking of another major trial, obviously, the chappelle

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Speaker 2: Kaulbye Amita Swell. That's it reporters yelling at her, you

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Speaker 2: know what did you do? Yeah, just across the quadrangle

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Speaker 2: to her as she was sort of being taken from

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Speaker 2: place to place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you'd never see anything like that here. It's

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Speaker 1: it's really kind of a I guess what you call

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Speaker 1: it completely open justice. Some would say it's a free

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Speaker 1: for all. It's it's just very different. These guys that

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Speaker 1: are in detention over there, two of them are from Sydney,

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Speaker 1: one of them was a plumber until relatively recently and

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Speaker 1: and the other two one of them is from Melbourne.

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Speaker 1: And one of the interesting things is that relatively little

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Speaker 1: is known.

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Speaker 2: About them, so not known to authorities.

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Speaker 1: Not particularly right, mostly minor stuff.

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Speaker 2: So it will be interesting to see how they wind

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Speaker 2: their way through the Indonesian justice system.

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Speaker 1: If they are involved, it will be very interesting to

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Speaker 1: know who they're working for.

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Speaker 2: Wesh, you'll have to wait and find out. And with that,

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Speaker 2: thank you very much for coming in. I know you're busy,

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Speaker 2: and we'll be reporting on this for the foreseeable future

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Speaker 2: and following these three through the justice system. But until then,

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Speaker 2: all is left to say is to say thank you

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Speaker 2: doubles for your time today measure as always, Thanks.

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Speaker 3: ABC, thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is a Sunday

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Speaker 3: Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia. Our producer is

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Speaker 3: Johnty Burton. For my columns, features and more, go to

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Speaker 3: Heroldsun dot com dot Au, forward slash Andrew rule one word.

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Speaker 3: For advertising inquiries, go to news Podcasts sold at news

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Speaker 3: dot com dot Au. That is all one word news

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Speaker 3: podcasts sold And if you want further information about this episode,

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Speaker 3: links are in the description

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Speaker 4: Can I go Alon