WEBVTT - Life inside supermax prison: Adam Smith Pt.1 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:04.880 The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.039 Detective see aside of life. The average person is never 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.080 exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.040 For twenty five of those years I was catching killers. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.200 That's what I did for a living. I was a 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.560 homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.120 I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.760 from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.440 and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.640 of the content and language might be confronting. That's because 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:36.640 no one who comes in the contact with crime is 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.840 left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:48.560 this world. I first crossed paths with today's guest, Adam Smith, 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.440 in a maximum security prison. We didn't get off to 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:53.920 a good start. He was warning other inmates there would 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:57.480 be consequences if they were soon associating with me. But 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:00.840 we've moved past that tense first meeting. Today we sat 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.160 down and had a chat. We talked about what took 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:06.600 place in that prison, his life as a member of 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:09.840 an outlaw motorcycle gang, and he's time in gold and 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.400 supermax prison, which is a violent place where loyalties were 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:17.399 based on gang affiliation and race, and how through the 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.440 stroke of good luck and the foresight of some corrective 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:24.200 services officers he managed to turn his life around. I 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.199 think Adam has an important message. Let's have a listen 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:32.000 to what he has to say. Adam, thanks for coming 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.720 on my catch killers that problem going. When I walked 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:39.240 into your prison dorm a year or so ago and 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:43.240 there was twenty five maximum security prisoners there snarling at me, 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:47.120 and I didn't think we'd be sitting down this time 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:49.080 in a studio having a chat. 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.360 No, I wouldn't think so, because I would have thought 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:54.200 that the time. But you didn't realize this. 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.080 Yeah, well, yeah it was. I got to say. When 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.560 I've walked in there, I thought, yeah, this isn't a 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.080 good idea, probably not the smartest, smartest thing. I wasn't 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:04.440 sure if I was going to walk out of there. 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:06.320 Actually, I could imagine it would have been a little 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:08.560 intimidating for econe from your background to there. 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:12.720 But yeah, well I didn't expect an ex high profile 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:16.960 cop to be too popular in that environment. Look, we 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.440 probably should explain what I was doing there, because I 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.040 think it's interesting. I'd like to get your take on it, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:26.600 the thoughts from your perspective how it came about. Corrective 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.560 Services invited me into the prison to have a look 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:31.800 at a new way they were doing a prison system, 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:36.480 Macquarie Correctional Center, maximum security prison. On paper, it seemed 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:38.960 like a good idea. I thought, Yeah, that's cool. We'll 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:42.120 go in and hang out with the inmates and find 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.080 out what they think of this new system. Probably didn't 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:50.600 think it too much, and when we walked into your 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:55.760 dorm unannounced, I thought I fucked up here because there 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.799 was groups of prisoners just forming little groups, talking and 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.120 making it very clear what they thought of me. And 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.519 I wasn't too popular in there. I didn't want to 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:06.400 sort of turn around and run out. That wouldn't have 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.120 been a good look, so I tried to play it 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.959 cool and just hold my ground a little bit. I 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.799 spoke to some of the some of the prisoners in there, 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.040 but I've got a sense it wasn't very well appreciated, 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.440 and it was very clear what people wanted to do 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:24.000 to me in looks and gestures. So I made after 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.119 a short discussion with a few of the inmates made 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.360 a tactical retreat from there. With my dignity intact, I 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:34.280 didn't run out. But you're in there. You're in there 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.920 at the time, what was going through your mind? Because 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.880 I know I just rocked up there unannounced and people 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:41.520 recognize me pretty quickly. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:45.080 Okay, So from my point of view, I knew it 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:48.200 was a good thing. There was an opportunity to show 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:52.440 off the new model of correct need services, I guess, 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.440 which has been a battle and it will be an 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:59.920 ongoing battle because there's the hard line that that is 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.680 still convinced that if you're a prisoner, you should just 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.280 be locking a cell and that's it. Is we going 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.119 to remember that our country was built off the back 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:12.440 of convicts. There's always going to be a jail system. 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.960 But if we can have guys that go through whatever 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:17.440 they go through in life. On let's face that a 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:18.920 lot of people go for a lot of stuff in 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.960 life that leads them down these paths. You know, if 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:26.640 we can really abilitate these people, light myself and get 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:30.240 them back out, and you'll probably find that most of 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.480 them have something to prove and they're going to be 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:34.880 a productive member of society. 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.839 Well, I think that's why corrective services want to be 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:41.200 in there. And I was trying to sell the position 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:43.200 to you guys, and you were one of the inmates 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.200 that were telling people not to not to talk to me. 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:48.840 That's right, and because you thought some heat would come 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.920 down anyone that's seen associating with me. But eventually we 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.200 sort of got the message across that. You know, if 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.280 I go in there as the next cop, and I'm 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.919 saying I reckon this works, carry it gives you guys 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.160 a platform can explain what's going on. 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:04.960 Yeah, that's right. 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:11.200 So essentially what's happened in this new model of jail 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.680 as it goes, there's people that people look up to 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.240 in jail. So there's a fair few of us essentially 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:22.440 that were just babyshitters. Now this was I guess for 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.040 us to keep this model of jail. We do this 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.120 so that all the benefits that come along with having it. 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:31.200 So I did an education in there. I come from 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:35.400 probably the darkest space that you come from on Australian 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.760 soil to go to a place where I shined. 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:43.320 How long how long had you done in prison or 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:44.920 how long have you done in prison? 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:49.719 So just over six years in total. So basically the 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:54.159 I only ever did small amounts before this was a 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:55.080 six year sentence. 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:57.160 So it was a six or the nine. 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.360 Okay, And we're going to talk about that now, how 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.120 your life got got to that point. But you went 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.320 from extremes and I want to break it down the 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:11.559 two prison experiences you had from gold and Supermax, which 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:16.400 I've been in that prison as well, and I want 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.120 to talk about that because that's that's a heavy, heavy 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:23.000 scene there, and you've gone to Mcquarie Correctional Center. But 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:26.800 the fact is that Macquarie there's still maximum security prisoners. Like, 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.400 it's not all the soft people in prison. There's some. 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:33.600 I recognized a lot of the faces and had dealings 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:35.440 with some of the people in there. 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:35.880 That's right. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.760 Yeah, So, like I said, so before I went there, 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:41.719 there was never meant to be any gang members. But 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:44.800 that was that was off the table. That story we'll 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.839 get into as we go along. I guess we'll start 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.919 from when I come into classy this time, or start. 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.640 Let's let's wind it back a bit, because you weren't 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.320 born in jail, I don't think, so, tell us about 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:59.440 your childhood and your upbringing. 0:06:59.520 --> 0:06:59.960 Yeah, Okay. 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.840 So I come from a very good family and a 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.919 beautiful mom and dad, brothers, sister, extended family. That's perfect, 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.120 you know. But unfortunately, when I was younger, I suffered 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.280 through some traumatic situations that led me down a path, right, 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:15.840 which had nothing to do with my family. 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.240 Now, just on that issue, because we spoke about that 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:24.120 the other day when we're having a chat and you said, 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.680 you don't want to go into details, but something that 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.280 happened to you when you're a young teenager that's right 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.560 on a school camp, and you just don't want to 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.120 break break it down, but that had a profound effect on. 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:37.120 You, that's right. 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:43.560 That led me down a path that I really didn't 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:45.520 know how to get out of in a sense, you know, 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.120 but I did try, like throughout those younger years, you know, 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:53.160 like and there were other things that were happening like 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:57.240 around me that sort of you know, intensified what was 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:01.840 happening with me from that experience, And there were so 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:03.640 many times where I sort of tried to tell my mum, 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.840 but I couldn't really bring myself to do it, you know, 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.480 because I can't deal with that sort of thing, you know. 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:12.920 But anyway, that led me into a path that I 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:14.440 was just started to get into trouble, you know. 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:18.720 Okay, so up until early childhood, you said, a good family. 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:20.240 What theyre did you grow up in? 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:20.960 Okay? 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:26.640 So I was at West Bimble until about six years old, 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.440 and then we moved to the Hawksbury. So I went 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:33.320 to Pittown Primary School and then I signed up to 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:36.400 go to Winsor High School. I didn't really attend too much, 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:37.880 but I used to go to music and sport and 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:38.880 that's probably you had hit. 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.960 So you're a student on paper, but you didn't spend 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:44.080 much time there. 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:45.200 Yeah. 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:49.520 Sorry, I did manage to I guess touch the hearts 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:51.000 of some of the teachers, isn't that because so many 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:51.600 people did. 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:52.080 Try for me. 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:56.640 I guess that's one of my regrets that throughout that 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.440 time I did let so many people down, you know, 0:08:58.480 --> 0:08:59.960 because a lot of people did try for me. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:00.360 You know. 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:02.840 Well, I think it says a bit about yourself the 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:06.199 fact that you recognize the fact that, yeah, there were 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.400 people trying to try to help you, and you didn't 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:10.840 take up take up the office. 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:11.280 Yeah. 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.160 Yeah, How old were you when you first start going 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.000 off the rails and getting into trouble and getting. 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:18.280 Up the ship. 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.920 I think it was immediately from that point on I 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:25.640 really struggled with identity. Yeah, from that point on, I 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:27.160 started to get into a lot of trouble, you know, 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.360 Like I think it was probably that age I got 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:30.960 brought home. 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:31.400 By the police. 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:33.480 You know, what was that for the first time. 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:38.400 I think it was a stolen pushbike or something like that. Actually, no, 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.640 it was a stolen pushbike, and it was just a 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:46.080 silly situation. I didn't even steal the pushbike. But I 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:47.839 think this come back to where I come from, with 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:49.640 a good nature that led me into a path and 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.120 I tried to help at the time, and I ended 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.320 up in the cop car getting taken ot you know. 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.760 And then I guess trying and explain that to your parents, 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.240 but the cops brought your home, you know, and at 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:01.920 that point I started to go off the rail. So 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:03.440 there was trust already gone, you know. 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:08.960 Okay, so first experience being brought brought home by the cops, 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:11.560 there was still a point to turn your life around. 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:14.520 But you hanging out with the wrong crowd or what 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:15.840 I get. 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.400 I guess there's always that, you know, But what ended 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.800 up happening essentially because I was the wrong crowd. 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:27.040 Okay, well that's that's being honest. 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:31.600 Well, I mean not so much through that time frame, 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:36.200 but definitely before I went to prison, there's only two 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:37.839 ways that my life was going to end. 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:41.280 Then did you I tried to get a sceint at 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.319 that age, did you did the thought of going to 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.280 prison scare you? Did you think that was just? 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.160 Or did you when when I went to prison. 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.520 Before, as you were a kid, like the consequences, because 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.480 I'm sure cops would have said to you as they're 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:56.520 bringing you home, you're going to end up in prison, 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:58.240 You're going to throw your life away and all that. 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.480 Does that resonate with you when that said to you 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:04.040 at that age when you're going on that path. 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.200 Not so much. So I got very lucky. 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.960 I actually got sentenced to six months on the bottom 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.520 from Windsor Courthouse and I ended up in the cells. 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:16.600 And when I was in the cells, there's all these 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:18.760 boys from high school that come in the greens from 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.079 Silver Order and this is my first real experience inside. 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.680 How old were you then, I'd say I would. 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.439 Have been eighteen. I would have been just saden because 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.280 I would have been on to prison, you know. Yeah, 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.040 And so one of them turned up. One of them 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:34.720 had a talio and is shoe. The other one had 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:36.480 a bit of tobacco. I wanted a bit of flint 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:38.800 one out of a thing, and I thought it was cool. 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.200 And I was off prison and I was, let's go, 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.319 let's go to prison. But then they come through and said, oh, 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:46.600 your father's just post your bail and you're walking out, 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:48.640 and I was like I was at the time. I 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.880 was a little disappointed. I was like, I was young, 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:51.960 formid of excursion. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.520 You know, Okay, I've heard some stories here, but okay, 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:57.280 a bit disappointed. 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:01.040 Thinking back, Maybe maybe I shouldn't have post the bail. 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:03.960 Maybe I should have done that six months. I think 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.440 that anyone going off the rails needs to experience what 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.080 prison's like because it teaches it a lot as a character. 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:11.920 It's a hard call, isn't it. Because there's one school 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.679 of thought that, Okay, let's go hard ad them when 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.959 they're youngsters and yeah, you've just turned eight. In put 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.560 them in prison and show them what life's really like. 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:21.160 Yeah. 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.760 And then there's the other school of thought that if 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.520 you throw them in there, it just becomes a graduation 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:28.199 for a career as a criminal. 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.280 And it does for lots lots of boys, you know. Yeah, 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.160 some of these connections that you're making there. 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:38.120 It's like my preference if you can keep young fellas 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:40.880 and girls for that matter, out of prison, because I 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.480 think if you're in there, it's sort of it's almost 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.280 you carry that on your shoulder, the chip on your shoulder. 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:50.000 Will I would definitely agree. In my circumstances back then, 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.200 I think things may change for me. Howd I gone 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:54.720 to prison? This wasn't anyone's fault. This is just the 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:58.800 way things look out. No one could have predicted that 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.839 that I could got bail at the last minute, or 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:03.600 like I said, I come from a good family. 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.080 You know, what's my dad's in the post bail for me? 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.240 What sort of offense were you in for at that stage? 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:10.200 What was it? 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:11.480 I think it was a sault. 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.520 Yeah, So I've always had a problem with assaults, and 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:16.880 like violence has been an issue for me, and it 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.360 actually made me sick, you know, Like this was something 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.560 that I dealt with when I was going through super Max. 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:26.720 Mainly you get consumed by violence, you know. 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.160 Well, you told me an interesting story the other other 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.760 day that you met a blake when you were sixteen 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.760 or whatever, started getting into the weights and the street 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:42.920 fighting and learning boxing, and it almost became you were 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.400 drawing attention to yourself and people were picking fights around you, 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.160 knowing that you'd step in, and you went from one 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:54.120 battle to another. What was it? What was the gay 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.320 with that that guy? What influence did he have have 0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:57.640 on you? 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.640 So at this point, there's so to say. 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.360 Let's just say at that point, maybe when I was fifteen, 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.760 when we crossed bars, so I'd already gone for a lot, 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.439 and I was already dealing with a lot. But at 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:13.079 this point I'd sort of managed through you through substance 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.040 and things like that, and whereas none of this was 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:16.840 an issue anymore, and I was just I was on 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:18.280 the front foot run of the market. 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:19.720 Lot of banger in you. 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.200 Yeah, definitely a lot of anger in me and just 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:24.680 not knowing how to direct it or deal with it, 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:29.960 you know, And yeah, and it just it consumes you. 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.080 But my crossing paths. 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:34.960 I won't mention his name because he may not want 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.360 to say mention, but he'll know who he is. And 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.000 a credit to him, he's doing very very well for himself. 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:40.200 Now. 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.120 He's got himself a massive business and he's really doing well, 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.680 got a good family. Before I crossed bars with him, 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.280 he did an eight year sentence for armed robberies. 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:49.680 Old school. 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.000 This guy will stand up on his toes at any time, 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.080 no matter what's in front of him, right, And I 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:01.240 admired that because something that I taught myself was with 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.800 what happened, was that I was going to build myself up. 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:05.480 No one was ever going to hurt me again. And 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.040 that's part of the reason I guess why I ended 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:08.440 up going through the clubs and that too. 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:08.880 You know. 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.640 Interesting you say that, because I've seen a lot of 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.600 blokes sit where you're sitting, not just since I've been 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:17.320 out of the cops, when I was in the cops, 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.920 that yeah, I'm not going to be a victim anymore. 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.160 I'm going to look out for myself and no one's 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.480 going to fuck with me, basically, and that sort of 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:27.960 gratitude that can lead down the path that ends up 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:28.560 in the clubs. 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:30.440 And that's right, that's right, And. 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.840 It wasn't going to happen in that world or that 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.080 world and the consequences that, like I said, was only 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:39.760 going to end it either one or two ways for 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.360 me at the time. But I'm glad that whatever I've 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.560 gone through now and I'm in a really good place now, 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.240 you know. And I'm in a place now that I 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.560 can help others going through what I was going through. 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.760 You know, especially as far as going through gangs and 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:54.440 that sort of stuff. 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.160 It sounds like you didn't have the skills to walk 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.000 away from the violence or the prontation, and it was 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:02.800 just the one thing you were good at. 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.320 Well, when you say skill, I don't think I had 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:11.960 the emotional maturity. It was just easier for me to 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:12.880 go that way, you know. 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.680 Yeah, do you look look back at that time, and yeah, 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.040 I think I wasted all these years. 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.760 So many people go walk around think I'm on this 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:28.280 that no regrets. Come on me. 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.680 I've got nothing but regrets. But it's made me who 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.560 I am now, and who I am now like I 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:36.680 love this person and I've got people that love me, 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:37.760 and that's all that matters now. 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:38.040 You know. 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.440 I got the sense that you're close with your family, 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.560 and so you must look back at them and think, Jesus, 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.160 I cause you guys some headaches over the years. 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:49.840 My mum will looks at this and have a laugh. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.800 I torment her every day. My Dad said, torment her 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:58.360 like nothing else. But yeah, you know, you can't take 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.000 things back when you can't take them back, and if 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:02.480 you're going to keep looking back, you're not going to 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:02.960 go forward. 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:03.240 You know. 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.479 When I come home from jail, like, I'm fairly good 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:09.560 with my words in situations like this, and when I'm 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.360 standing in front of people talking, that's fine, and when 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.760 it's coming from the heart, there's always giving to be 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.080 something like that up, you know. But I did say 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.760 to Mum and Dad when I come home that I 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:23.040 appreciate everything that you do for me, and I apologize 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:24.879 for everything else, you know, But they knew it. 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.600 I mean, well, yeah, that's all you can do. And 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.119 I suppose the reward for them is if you're turning 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.880 your life around now and yeah, it's okay. We all 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.240 grow up at different stages in life or will come 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.240 to the realization and what the path we should be following. 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.280 So yeah, I'm sure they understood. But I get the 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.680 sense that they stayed with you the whole time, which 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.760 is yeah, mate, So you're fortunate there because you would 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.440 have seen a lot of blokes in prisons that didn't 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.480 have that support. That makes a lot harder doesn't. 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:58.000 It definitely, definitely. You know, there's a lot of people 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:02.520 in prison that they are using drugs or stuff like that. 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.240 The way they treat their families terrible. 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:05.600 You know. 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:10.800 Maccruarie did try to implement a strategy that would help 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:17.080 rather than punish addicts, and which the fundamentals of it 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.000 all was great, but there was just a few things 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.320 in there that was a little bit I guess, of 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.440 a violation to an inmate in the sense, like one 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.600 of the things we was was if you got caught 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.680 doing something, rather than coper charge or refine and we 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.800 take you off everything and then and that just puts 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.280 you out for a hustle. Anyway, we can sit down 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.000 with you and you can call your parents and tell 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.399 your parents exactly what the money's been used for that 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:47.200 they send you right now. I guess the theory behind 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.480 it is they think and they're helping people. But for 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.440 a lot of these guys, they've been written off by 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.520 their families and very very right, so they probably stole 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:58.440 them from them. They probably who knows what they've done, 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.440 But like any loving family, they're always going to try 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.639 to keep a family together. So as soon as you 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:09.480 get this person it's an opportunity when he's vulnerable, when 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.960 he's been charged and he's in jail, and he's down 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.680 and out, and he's separated from whatever in the parent's eyes, 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.880