Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Speaker 1: Detective see a side of life the average persons never
Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.
Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a
Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world. Today,
Speaker 1: I had to sit down with former bikei Owen Turnbull.
Speaker 1: Owen's lucky to be alive. He's been shot on two
Speaker 1: separate occasions and even had his home firebombed, which came
Speaker 1: close to killing his family members. It's a price paid
Speaker 1: for living the life of a gangster. Owen took us
Speaker 1: deep into the world of outlaw motorcycle gangs. He was
Speaker 1: a member of the Rebels before patching over to the Nomads,
Speaker 1: where he became the sergeant of arms, an enforcer for
Speaker 1: the club. But when he was sent to prison, he
Speaker 1: came to the realization that this is not the life
Speaker 1: he wants to live. Owen's a hard man with no
Speaker 1: bullshit approach to life, as you will hear today, he's
Speaker 1: now out of the biking world and educating young men
Speaker 1: to understand the cost of living this life. Now, this
Speaker 1: is a heavy conversation, but it's one I think it's
Speaker 1: worthwhile having Ohen turnbull welcome, Do I catch killers? Well,
Speaker 1: we can both have a bit of a laugh. For
Speaker 1: X cop and X bikey sitting down having a chat. Well,
Speaker 1: you could say that, you could say that we're parts
Speaker 1: of organization, gangs and different things, but it's sort of
Speaker 1: an accepted practice at Bikey's and cops neverthe two shall meet.
Speaker 1: It's funny how life plays out, isn't it.
Speaker 2: It's like, it's pretty funny considering off I left. I
Speaker 2: get along with like the higher up cops a bit
Speaker 2: better than I did some of the bikis.
Speaker 1: Because it's well, how we how we got in contact
Speaker 1: with I bumped into a current serving cop, yeah, and
Speaker 1: got to talking with him, and he said, oh, you
Speaker 1: should speak to this, but he's doing some good work.
Speaker 2: We do the doing the NRL gig together. Yeah, the
Speaker 2: juniors sharing my story helping them out of trouble. Well,
Speaker 2: don't want your money gambling all that kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's a good message to get across, but
Speaker 1: I think we probably should clarify that. Yeah, the cop
Speaker 1: a current serving cop you're speaking to. You're not an informant. No,
Speaker 1: no informant.
Speaker 2: No, let's put that on record. It's a job I
Speaker 2: got with the NRL talking to the juniors, helping them
Speaker 2: don't stray along the same path I did go on
Speaker 2: from potential NRL first grader to becoming a bikey. My
Speaker 2: story kind of helps out because a lot of the
Speaker 2: young fellows these days, they've got money in social media.
Speaker 2: They can get caught up on all that stuff. You know.
Speaker 1: So well, the world's attract each other, don't.
Speaker 2: They, because the intertwines.
Speaker 1: It comes across. So I would imagine it is an
Speaker 1: important message to get across. And that was the initiative
Speaker 1: of the Queensland cops.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The Queensland one was Gang Exit Gang Exit video.
Speaker 2: For me, it was me ben Geppert who was part
Speaker 2: of it as well. And there's another bloke who was
Speaker 2: with the Titans Gold Coast Titans through his career way
Speaker 2: to become a biking on stuff as well.
Speaker 1: So well, I watch the watch your video on it,
Speaker 1: and it's pretty heavy stuff and something that really got
Speaker 1: a strong message up front in the video where you
Speaker 1: talk about going to a funeral of a member that
Speaker 1: someone got up and said how much he's going to
Speaker 1: miss the brother and.
Speaker 2: He's the person that followed. Yeah, it's about twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2: Big there was a big time for the rebels, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. So I knew a lot of
Speaker 2: things due to my position and getting told things, and
Speaker 2: back in my head, I'm like, fuck, what am I
Speaker 2: doing in this place? You're fucking consoling his mother and
Speaker 2: you're the one that organized it. I started to realize
Speaker 2: it's fucking mostly bullshit, but I still stayed in for
Speaker 2: a couple few more years.
Speaker 1: You learn your lessons, yeah, as you grow up. But
Speaker 1: it reminds me of mafia. Dudes always talk about you
Speaker 1: wacking each other. If you're going to get knocked that's
Speaker 1: probably by your best mate. When you at least expect you.
Speaker 2: See that all the time movies, real life, they get
Speaker 2: knocked by their best mates because it's business or something
Speaker 2: like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, we had Michael Francis, he's a cape from.
Speaker 2: New York in Australia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I did a tour with him. But he
Speaker 1: was talking about how, yeah, if you're going to get knocked,
Speaker 1: it's probably by the person that's your best mate, which
Speaker 1: is it's a hard life.
Speaker 2: It's a fucked life, isn't it. It's meant to be
Speaker 2: like a brotherhood, but you're getting killed by your best
Speaker 2: mate or someone close to you.
Speaker 1: Just paranoia kicking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh fuck. There'd be heaps of times I'll get
Speaker 2: called on the BlackBerry and we used to have them
Speaker 2: I needed to come here, I needed to meet here,
Speaker 2: or I think I'm in the back of my head,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, have I done something? Am I fucking gonna
Speaker 2: get something gonna happen to me? It was. There was
Speaker 2: a couple of times where I thought I was gonna
Speaker 2: get fucking like shot or knocked or bashed by a
Speaker 2: couple of people. I'd rock up to the President's house
Speaker 2: at the time and there'll be people I wouldn't even
Speaker 2: seen before there. I'm thinking, what's going on here, be
Speaker 2: on edge, couldn't get out of their quick enough. A
Speaker 2: just shows you like, and they just couldn't be brothers,
Speaker 2: couldn't even trust him.
Speaker 1: But to add to the paranoia, paranoia that's that's in
Speaker 1: your your own crew, then you've got the could be
Speaker 1: knocking on the door of.
Speaker 2: Other clubs as well. Like we had a thing where
Speaker 2: every common chero, every lander was a common shero.
Speaker 1: Yeah you didn't know, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So they think it's like three there's three big boys here.
Speaker 2: They just normal everyday blokes or Bikey's something going to happen,
Speaker 2: always on it, especially in camera. Was tiny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a small, very small place. Everyone's is business.
Speaker 1: Is it more relaxing being out of the gangs.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's so much better because down there, obviously
Speaker 2: it's such a small place. I can't just hide all
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 1: And what I high, I say, Hi, goodbye, very polite,
Speaker 1: keep it, keep it, keep it short.
Speaker 2: And yeah, they're good with me down there. They know
Speaker 2: I'm completely out and doing my own thing and I
Speaker 2: don't want anything to do with it, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. But yeah, just keep it nice and polite,
Speaker 2: don't hate them. They don't hate me.
Speaker 1: Yeah did you? You grew up in Canberra?
Speaker 2: Yeah, born and raise the camera. Me.
Speaker 1: Mother was a nurse.
Speaker 2: My dad was a carpenter his whole life. And I
Speaker 2: got a younger brother.
Speaker 1: Right, okay, and you're a big unit and you're playing NRL.
Speaker 2: I I was hoping. I was hoping to get there.
Speaker 2: I stopped and I was playing soccer first, and then
Speaker 2: I was like to mommy, I want to play pay
Speaker 2: ruby league and your parents are real courtious, then I'm
Speaker 2: going to get You're going to speak head over and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. Finally was able to play rugby league.
Speaker 2: I was under elevens and twelve played for two years
Speaker 2: before I got selected for act score Boys, which like
Speaker 2: First South Wales, Cleansland, stuff like that. Who kept playing?
Speaker 2: I kept up to me under fourteen fifteen sixteens. My
Speaker 2: whole time growing up, I was completely dedicated to becoming
Speaker 2: an NRL football player. I was. I didn't associate with
Speaker 2: anyone and what age? What age was this about? Fourteen
Speaker 2: fifteen sixteen? And then I said, I said, I never
Speaker 2: touched I won't touch alcohol, don't touch drugs anything. I
Speaker 2: didn't touch drugs. Alcohol My first alcohols I was sixteen,
Speaker 2: and then from there it was like downhill into like
Speaker 2: just a spiral of lost on my cardio, no desire
Speaker 2: to play football, just wanted to chase girls.
Speaker 1: Did you put it down into the alcohol? It was
Speaker 1: just the lifestyle and the bright lights and.
Speaker 2: The lifestyle and the alcohol as well, because you don't
Speaker 2: realize how much of affect you I when you look
Speaker 2: with your cardio and stuff, when you're doing it every
Speaker 2: weekend and pecual you want to hang out with your mates.
Speaker 2: You've just turned eighteen as well, you're leave in school,
Speaker 2: going out to the clubs after after school it was
Speaker 2: cool the next day.
Speaker 1: There's so many stories of blokes that, yeah, all the
Speaker 1: potential in the world that could have made it at
Speaker 1: the top level, and they made a good living out.
Speaker 2: Of it, but the grog or drugs or get focus
Speaker 2: the way. You have a big thumbs up to the
Speaker 2: boys that can do both of that.
Speaker 1: Stuff, you know, But you look back now and you think,
Speaker 1: fuck what, I'm sure all the way.
Speaker 2: For what for people who aren't even there anymore? Why
Speaker 2: they don't care about me? You never cared about me.
Speaker 2: It's just fuck, it's just stuck with my guns and
Speaker 2: just kept my head down.
Speaker 1: So okay, you're fifteen sixteen, you're getting you got the
Speaker 1: taste of alcohol and the.
Speaker 2: Wall played hal mats for the Raiders during that time
Speaker 2: was when the first time I had my first sup
Speaker 2: of beer, alcohol and drugs and didn't touch anything before that.
Speaker 2: And you can tell from like how deteriorated I got
Speaker 2: from like my cardio. I couldn't even finish doing like
Speaker 2: one training session. It was that fuck. And then they
Speaker 2: burned me from that. They said, oh, was on the coach,
Speaker 2: you has your waste of fucking talent? Was the turbule?
Speaker 2: I fuck, I got a bit of a fucking to
Speaker 2: put my head in.
Speaker 1: Shame, shame, listen, listen, You're a waste.
Speaker 2: I still remember it stays in my head and kind
Speaker 2: of like the fuck it I saw myself out. But
Speaker 2: it's it's a bit hard when you're around a lot
Speaker 2: of people and it's like, well, I can do this
Speaker 2: and that. And then eventually, because I got kicked out
Speaker 2: at home, I sent to live with my uncle.
Speaker 1: What was that? You got kicked out at home?
Speaker 2: Dad? Me and my dad were always at each other.
Speaker 2: A lot of people, a lot of pressure on me
Speaker 2: growing up to play football, I think I was just trying
Speaker 2: to live through him, like it's just he's always he
Speaker 2: always used to be about, oh yeah, my son's this
Speaker 2: football is going to do this, And that's a lot
Speaker 2: of pressure.
Speaker 1: As I got older that that's interesting, and a lot
Speaker 1: of parents are like, that isn't it. You want to
Speaker 1: live vicariously through your through your kid, but it puts
Speaker 1: out the pressure on you.
Speaker 2: Because I just love it, just live and breathe at football,
Speaker 2: and then it just become a chore and I just
Speaker 2: hated it. Like we're training for Raiders on Monday, Wednesday Fridays.
Speaker 2: They were way before.
Speaker 1: Cheating.
Speaker 2: If I've lost fucking five kilos in onion was probably
Speaker 2: water eight, but you know five kilos from eighty five
Speaker 2: to eighty Yeah. I just I'd come off of like
Speaker 2: a birthday party or some shit. And we played the
Speaker 2: trial against Sharks the next day for getting picked, and
Speaker 2: fuck I played horrible rubbish, dropped the ball twice. I
Speaker 2: still remember it, and then fucking you see me, Dad
Speaker 2: and I had this shit say then they got cut
Speaker 2: from there, the waste of talent thing and then my
Speaker 2: dad always had each other's head. It chose next and
Speaker 2: fuck it you can get the fuck out, sent me
Speaker 2: up on a train to Barrow, lived in lived there
Speaker 2: for about six to eight months working. I was living
Speaker 2: in a garage. Your bedroom was a garage with a
Speaker 2: bed of the mattress and a TV. And I was
Speaker 2: working five dollars an hour sixteen seventeen years old. I
Speaker 2: was like slave labor. I fucking hated it and maybe
Speaker 2: it made me resent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, next career choice didn't really stay in the right direct.
Speaker 1: And you start working as a bouncer, didn't you How
Speaker 1: old were you then?
Speaker 2: Eighteen eighteen? I've got my old coach got me the job. Really, so, yeah,
Speaker 2: I had enough of living in a fucking garage. This
Speaker 2: ship moved back. No, I didn't even I just got
Speaker 2: on a train one day and came back. So it's
Speaker 2: got to make me Dad tell me to fuck off,
Speaker 2: you know, at each other. And now obviously I got
Speaker 2: to stay home. Wasn't nowhere else coming to go stay
Speaker 2: with them? And they got the job. Next thing, you know,
Speaker 2: because there was a pop in Tiger on the south
Speaker 2: of Camber and rebels would frequent it a lot, and
Speaker 2: they'd always come in and I think, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: these guys are bad motherfuckers because eighteen, you don't know
Speaker 2: anybout it and you're working the door. Yeah, working the
Speaker 2: door and inside the club, the bar, and being young,
Speaker 2: you don't know any But I don't think these guys
Speaker 2: are so bad hectic. And then I was hanging I
Speaker 2: met a few of them, hanging around for three months,
Speaker 2: and then I numbed up after three months. So I
Speaker 2: was about twenty years old.
Speaker 1: What and this is a you know, the cautionary tail
Speaker 1: because you're you're out of it now, But what what
Speaker 1: was the attraction to it?
Speaker 2: Like it's always the girls, the money, because I was
Speaker 2: fucking dead broke. I had no life skills. I'm no
Speaker 2: trade skills anything. I mean, best I could probably do
Speaker 2: is lift up some furniture and stuff and move. And
Speaker 2: so I started getting involved, like just hustling and doing
Speaker 2: drugs and stuff. I didn't touch cocaine. The first of
Speaker 2: a line of cocaine was with my president at the time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was still scared to do it. I watched that
Speaker 2: lend Bias doc go back in the day, I think
Speaker 2: it was, and he had his first line and he
Speaker 2: died from itself. Was always too scared to do it.
Speaker 2: That's probably, and then I'd eventually just start doing it
Speaker 2: and just kind of massive habit. I was broke till
Speaker 2: about twenty four and then that's when I started making
Speaker 2: bigger money.
Speaker 1: So how and you're working the door and the rebels
Speaker 1: are coming in all the bike How was that for you? Intimidating?
Speaker 2: Intimidating at the time.
Speaker 1: Intimidating. Imagine you're intimidated because.
Speaker 2: You don't know any better and you don't know who
Speaker 2: they are. But then you join and you realize, fucking
Speaker 2: most of these guys are just fucking blow asses, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. They've got no balls, hard about him. Nothing.
Speaker 1: But when you're young or you don't know anything about
Speaker 1: that life or from that life, you think, Okay, this
Speaker 1: every day bloke, he's a bad motherfucker because he's a
Speaker 1: bike And then you're joining, he's just like the guy
Speaker 1: that's made to go do the shitter stuff, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Just like he's in the club just
Speaker 1: for a fucking so you can fix a bike or
Speaker 1: do certain things, you know what I mean, Bring bring
Speaker 1: a skill set to the club that can help. So
Speaker 1: how did you you said you're asked to be How
Speaker 1: did that happen. Did you start going to parties or
Speaker 1: hanging out?
Speaker 2: And I was start hanging out with a couple of
Speaker 2: the members who just got their colors, like they were young,
Speaker 2: about a couple of years older than me. And I'm
Speaker 2: hanging out three months, are going to ship clubs, partying,
Speaker 2: doing all kinds of driving around, just a shit like that.
Speaker 2: And yeah, after three months told us if I wanted
Speaker 2: to join, and I was like, yeah, sure, got nothing
Speaker 2: else going for me? What am I doing fucking working
Speaker 2: two days a week doing nothing?
Speaker 1: And so that that seemed to be better offer. Did
Speaker 1: you have have an interest in bikes? Was that to
Speaker 1: touch the bike? It never touched a hearty in my life. Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll yap skill.
Speaker 2: So actually the first time I got the bike, I
Speaker 2: paid borught off them. It's fifteen thousand. There's a piece
Speaker 2: of shit. Soft Tail twousand model soft Tail went for
Speaker 2: a ride, got mees went for ride the first time,
Speaker 2: and I was horrible because you got to lean them
Speaker 2: and they're so heavy. I tried, I was trying to
Speaker 2: turn the bars, come around around about I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: fucking nearly dropped it. And then I'm going up a hill.
Speaker 2: First year second year, I'm like, oh, I've seen them
Speaker 2: like don't bet it go down and you know it
Speaker 2: slows them down a bit. And I did it, and
Speaker 2: I think tailor spin. I dropped the bike. So the
Speaker 2: first time on the hardy I was horrible. They it's
Speaker 2: not not a good bike to be nah nah. But yeah,
Speaker 2: from there I just kept riding around enjoy it.
Speaker 1: How long were you non for?
Speaker 2: I did twelve months. It's like, I think it's mostly
Speaker 2: mandatory everywhere twelve months.
Speaker 1: Describe and everyone has a different experience, but it's generally
Speaker 1: not overly overly pleasant. Describe your experience.
Speaker 2: Being noms like being a slive really and doing the
Speaker 2: most stupid better ship, or like why am I doing this?
Speaker 2: Are you that fucking lazy that you're calling me at
Speaker 2: four in the morning to go and get your hungry jacks?
Speaker 2: Or are you fucking I had two sponsors. One of
Speaker 2: them is missus was pregnant, and he lived across from
Speaker 2: the hospital, like literally a fifty meter walk. I lived
Speaker 2: about half an hour away. He caught me, I needed
Speaker 2: to fucking I need you to come and take me
Speaker 2: to me and my misses to the hospital, just gonna
Speaker 2: get a check up for the baby, like I'm fucking
Speaker 2: doing that, you know what I mean, Like you fucking
Speaker 2: live right there. It's like, are you that fucking lazy?
Speaker 2: And he fucking lost it. And I've had some sort
Speaker 2: of a reputation, but I was looked after and I
Speaker 2: didn't get in trouble for telling a member to fuck
Speaker 2: off and like all this kind of shit with oh yeah,
Speaker 2: big striking, and they fucking a lot of the older
Speaker 2: members and that didn't like me. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: be stuck up, but I knew I was better than you,
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like these these guys are fucking
Speaker 2: like I joined, and I'm like, holy funk, A lot
Speaker 2: of these people are really fucking blow asses.
Speaker 1: Yeah and that, yeah, well I wonder because you're fairly outspoken,
Speaker 1: there's no.
Speaker 2: Bullshit that it might be the same as a cop
Speaker 2: where you go in and like fucking better than these people.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well there's good good cops, bad cops, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure the same applies with the bikis. But okay,
Speaker 1: so you become a member, what what's that involved? And
Speaker 1: I don't want you to go down the path of
Speaker 1: revealing club secrets. Will put that out because of that.
Speaker 1: That's not what it's about. This is your your personal
Speaker 1: personal story.
Speaker 2: But got my colors. There's me. I lived at the
Speaker 2: clubhouse with another mate another none lived there. We're both
Speaker 2: broke as fuck. We had like we're just doing a
Speaker 2: lot of missions things of that, Like we had to
Speaker 2: earn our colors basically, and we got our colors. And
Speaker 2: they always they try to stick with my chapter. They
Speaker 2: try to like scare you when intimidate you, but it's
Speaker 2: all a joke when you get your colors, and like
Speaker 2: they went in. I just smiling. I was laughing because
Speaker 2: I knew I was geting my colors and they're trying
Speaker 2: to put on like a facada. It's like you're in trouble, mate,
Speaker 2: we know what you've done. Did that? I started laughing,
Speaker 2: like it's not a fucking laughing matter. And I was
Speaker 2: like what And then yeah, they've got my colors like
Speaker 2: this straight after and then you have a big party,
Speaker 2: how like you were.
Speaker 1: You're reflecting now and your attitudes change, but that at
Speaker 1: the time, was that something that you're gone, Yeah.
Speaker 2: That was my number one goal in life is come
Speaker 2: around that you were. I got I got their r
Speaker 2: for far before it even like like a week after
Speaker 2: I got my colors down my leg. Yeah, you know
Speaker 2: you're to wait five years, But I.
Speaker 1: Said, what the tattoo, You're in it forever. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what I say.
Speaker 2: You see, like all these young fellows now get look
Speaker 2: at the tattoo shop and they're getting like whatever club
Speaker 2: and then you're like, you're going to get that. You
Speaker 2: know eventually you're gonna get that removed, right, No, I
Speaker 2: mean forever. So I was saying the same ship.
Speaker 1: But that's that's so that that's the experience of yeh
Speaker 1: been through it and looking back because you wouldn't have
Speaker 1: thought that at the time, because I think it's interesting
Speaker 1: what your attitude was at the time.
Speaker 2: Yes, this is my world totally different. So I lived
Speaker 2: and breathe it like it's all I wanted. It's all
Speaker 2: I wanted to do, and be I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I want to become president on this chapter. And then
Speaker 2: all the politics when you get higher up and stuff,
Speaker 2: you're just like it's very clickie, like a lot of childish,
Speaker 2: backstabbing shit, and it always revolves around money.
Speaker 1: Where you put any group of people together and there's
Speaker 1: always going to be.
Speaker 2: A lot of fucking jealousy, especially from older members or
Speaker 2: like they've been there for like ten fifteen years and
Speaker 2: here you come in. You're like in there for two
Speaker 2: years and you're already above.
Speaker 1: Them, and what was expected of you being a member,
Speaker 1: like put the club above everything else?
Speaker 2: Yeah, stuff, You pay the fifty dollars a week dues
Speaker 2: for a rubbish club hours every Tuesday, you got the church,
Speaker 2: you stay every Friday's manatory, you've got to go. You
Speaker 2: can't leave until twelve. And I've got fucking sick of
Speaker 2: that stuff because it's you'd sit there and you do
Speaker 2: the same thing every week. You'd get on it like
Speaker 2: you have a couple of lines and then be like
Speaker 2: he'd be repeating they'd be repeating the same stories, and
Speaker 2: He's like, fuck, this is boring. And then it got
Speaker 2: to a point where a lot of the chapter will
Speaker 2: get jealous because I was hanging out with like normal
Speaker 2: mates because I was just fucking sick of the staying
Speaker 2: there till twelve o'clock or children a bit longer and
Speaker 2: just repeat the same shit, same stories. It's like, this
Speaker 2: is really fucking boring. It's not fun at all.
Speaker 1: It looks like it's fun, sounds like it sounds like
Speaker 1: a group of cops going out on the piss talking
Speaker 1: about how good we were in the old days.
Speaker 2: That's the same thing like this. It's like you're a
Speaker 2: president or whatever telling us a year when I was
Speaker 2: a normous I was under this guying, you know, to
Speaker 2: earn the colors, and you know, repeating the same stories
Speaker 2: every fucking week. It's like I fucking heard this already,
Speaker 2: and it just becomes tiresome where you're just thinking of
Speaker 2: excuses not to go.
Speaker 1: It's funny the psychology of it. And you talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, you've kicked out at home at sixteen, you
Speaker 1: were going down the path of NRL, which would have
Speaker 1: been yeah, you got bikes, got cops, you've got NRL teams.
Speaker 1: You know, it's all been part of a group. Is
Speaker 1: that something you were looking for?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we have anything, because I've been kicked out
Speaker 2: at home or come back, I've had mates. But it's
Speaker 2: like we're not doing my life, not doing anything. I
Speaker 2: wanted to feel part of something. Really, It's like that's
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. When I first joined, the President goes,
Speaker 2: I'm going to turn you into a soldier, and I thought, oh,
Speaker 2: that was cool. That's cool. Shit, he cares about me.
Speaker 2: He's going to buy me food, looking after me, stuff
Speaker 2: like that. So it's like, Okay, the person really cares
Speaker 2: about me, like don't have a good relationship with me
Speaker 2: dad and my mum, Like you know, I can count
Speaker 2: on these guys to look after me. But liked talking
Speaker 2: shit behind your back all the time out of jealousy
Speaker 2: or the other members and shit like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so when did the early stages? How long were
Speaker 1: you in it where you thought this this rocks are
Speaker 1: like the lifestyle you're living at the clubhouse, which has
Speaker 1: this inherent dangers too, because there's a lot of the
Speaker 1: clubhouses that get shot up all time, fucking.
Speaker 2: Fire bombed everything. I was living there when when of
Speaker 2: them happened when I was living there when I got
Speaker 2: rated ones too, But like, yeah, it's just a lot
Speaker 2: of jealousy and comes being a little favorite.
Speaker 1: I guess, right, Okay, so you probably a bad terminology,
Speaker 1: but the teacher's pet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I did think mixed beach and stuff, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's like, oh fuck, I'd rather
Speaker 2: not be driving him around every fucking day all day,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? You do it?
Speaker 1: Then, did you have to fight like there was a
Speaker 1: lot of punch ups and.
Speaker 2: With other people and stuff. Yeah, I got to do
Speaker 2: this and that's when I was the hang around. The
Speaker 2: first thing we did was that was it was one
Speaker 2: of the people that have shot at him or something
Speaker 2: before this happened before I joined, was getting tattoed at
Speaker 2: the shop that they own, and we're told to go.
Speaker 2: We've got four or five of us have to go
Speaker 2: wait there around the corner to come out around there
Speaker 2: for about a couple of hours. Finally walked outside and
Speaker 2: it was over within like ten twenty seconds, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? That was like my first thing I
Speaker 2: did for the club really right, Yeah?
Speaker 1: And how did you feel with doing that?
Speaker 2: Was it just mad? Yeah? I was on edge of beer.
Speaker 2: You get to doing sad much stuff. It just comes natural.
Speaker 2: You don't even think about it.
Speaker 1: So you become de sensitive because you come across as
Speaker 1: a bloke got a conscience and you've got a brain, and.
Speaker 2: Then you're just doing everything. You know, sometimes you don't
Speaker 2: like and you don't want to do things, but you
Speaker 2: fucking have to as well. You just like to get
Speaker 2: a fucking over with, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And what what about the drugs. Did that get older you?
Speaker 1: Did you become depending on.
Speaker 2: The cocaine was the biggest thing. But I didn't become
Speaker 2: really dependent on that until about four years after I joined.
Speaker 2: I was. I broke bumb for a lot of years
Speaker 2: because I started hustling making money with like the pingers,
Speaker 2: the pills that I got done with, all the cocaine,
Speaker 2: bottles of valium. It's making a killing. And then yeah,
Speaker 2: we're doing like an ounce a week cocaine and funct
Speaker 2: you you were doing that, but I was getting people
Speaker 2: to come over. Yeah. I didn't want to do by myself.
Speaker 2: I felt like a piece of ship, degenerate you, which
Speaker 2: I was, but I was like, fuck you. There's people
Speaker 2: skipping work to come over, and and.
Speaker 1: I would imagine when you're living that lifestyle and then
Speaker 1: you're on the days that you do sober up and
Speaker 1: clear your head, you'd be back down.
Speaker 2: What am I doing life? It's the rebels. And then
Speaker 2: we we had that national run of Perth to come
Speaker 2: back and we had a big foury out within our chapter.
Speaker 2: We had in our colors. We throw them at at
Speaker 2: the North Side Clubhouse and left and then within like
Speaker 2: a couple of days we'll get offers from like No Mads,
Speaker 2: and then we got start talking about patch over to
Speaker 2: another club or do this or that. So we talks
Speaker 2: like Nomads, Angels and a couple of other clubs.
Speaker 1: Explain, explain what patch over means, I know.
Speaker 2: Throw, throwing your own colors and enjoying another club basically.
Speaker 2: But so we settled on the Nomads, and so we
Speaker 2: took our rebel gear. We took it to like the
Speaker 2: North Side clubhouse lit on fire. They all come running out,
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, stuff was happening and left. Then they
Speaker 2: didn't want to bar. And then we went over to
Speaker 2: No We chose Nomads, went up there, had dinner, met
Speaker 2: all the other boys. We were along kind of clicked.
Speaker 2: But I didn't realize we had to pay till after
Speaker 2: the three und a k for us to get into
Speaker 2: the club or something like that. I was like, we
Speaker 2: could have joined another club for free. You know what
Speaker 2: I mean, we're paying three on a green.
Speaker 1: A lot of politics in it, oh, sounds of anything,
Speaker 1: any kickback or any payback, I should say, leaving the
Speaker 1: rebels with rebels.
Speaker 2: We we kicked it off. It was our chapter. It
Speaker 2: was on about eight of us. We kicked it off
Speaker 2: with all of them, so like northwest East stuff like that.
Speaker 2: A lot of things happened over three days, and then
Speaker 2: they didn't want to buy anymore, so they all threw
Speaker 2: their clothing the rebels. There was no one more rebels there,
Speaker 2: and then they tried to come to the Nomads, and
Speaker 2: it's like, fucking the reason we left in the first
Speaker 2: place was because of what you fucking you know what
Speaker 2: you're trying to come to us for. And I was adamant.
Speaker 2: I was like that they are if they fucking come
Speaker 2: on buck and leave it. I was sergeant at that time,
Speaker 2: so I was doing a lot of shit. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So when you when you're left and joined the nomads,
Speaker 1: you've handed your colors in, you've gone with a crew,
Speaker 1: you still must have mates in the rebels.
Speaker 2: And the funny thing was, I'd bring up some boys
Speaker 2: from city and they've got the ships at me about it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what the fuck, bro, you know we do? I mean,
Speaker 2: fucking is what it is. You know. I'm well to
Speaker 2: him as you would be loyal to yours.
Speaker 1: But it's a culture, isn't it. The rules that you
Speaker 1: don't stand until it happens to you. Or you go
Speaker 1: through it till you get fucked over and you're like okay.
Speaker 1: So how long were you in the rebels for?
Speaker 2: I think it was about four years, and then the
Speaker 2: nomads for two years.
Speaker 1: When did which was a.
Speaker 2: Fucking wild time? Yeah? Over overall, more action happened in
Speaker 2: six months than ever happened before that.
Speaker 1: When did you get When was the first time you
Speaker 1: went to prison?
Speaker 2: October twenty seventeen. I was in there for three months.
Speaker 2: I got bail. I was just doing I was hustling
Speaker 2: at a lot of drugs. Then, Yeah, hustling a.
Speaker 1: Lot and tell us, tell us about your arrests and
Speaker 1: the build up, how.
Speaker 2: That first started from my birthday and the rest on
Speaker 2: my birthday and locked up. I had a lot of
Speaker 2: money owing to me. It was about two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty three three out a K. I told my best mate.
Speaker 2: Had we bought a cafe? It was ninety six zerusan sweet?
Speaker 2: Because do you hustle on your sell that stuff that
Speaker 2: the ideas you go to legit, you don't keep fucking
Speaker 2: doing it. But yeah it makes sense. Yeah, so I'm
Speaker 2: going to git. We're gonna do this, you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: whatever I get locked up on my birthday. I bought
Speaker 2: the cafe with okay, bro, and can you collect this
Speaker 2: money for me? Because I still owe someone? And yeas, sweet, sweet,
Speaker 2: you collected at all. And then like two or three
Speaker 2: weeks before I get out, like my missus at the
Speaker 2: time and my mates. So he collected like three hundred
Speaker 2: k and just disappeared, left his miss is everything. So
Speaker 2: I'd got out and I'd had nothing, So I was
Speaker 2: stressing us. Was I've got to pay my fucking up
Speaker 2: the road as like fuck. I was doing anything I could.
Speaker 2: I was organizing four thousand pills to this bloke he
Speaker 2: messaged me. I knew him from used to sell to
Speaker 2: him before. It was the setup. He goes, hey, I
Speaker 2: want to get some pills. So I got out and
Speaker 2: the bail was only out for two or three months,
Speaker 2: and so I've got the pills. We're in the car together.
Speaker 2: In the paperwork I've seen I started laughing, showing everyone
Speaker 2: when I got locked up again, and I started laughing
Speaker 2: til it's like you fucking serious. It's in the paperwork.
Speaker 2: It has me looking in the car with him going
Speaker 2: to meet his mate. We see I see his mate.
Speaker 2: I turned him and her mate looks like a fucking cop.
Speaker 2: Turns out that he was a fucking cop. So I'd
Speaker 2: give him this cop fucking four thousand pills.
Speaker 1: That's not a good idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it happened numerous times. I was thinking, in
Speaker 2: my fucking gut, I knew it was a fucking cop
Speaker 2: the whole time. I knew it was a cop. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're living. You learn though, And that thing was out
Speaker 2: of desperation, as I was like, fuck, I need to
Speaker 2: make money quick, going from having all this money it's
Speaker 2: nothing and this.
Speaker 1: Is your illegal activities, that's a source of your income.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole literally, fucking I didn't have a job
Speaker 2: entire time I was in the in the bike is.
Speaker 2: I had a job from like for a couple of years.
Speaker 2: At the start, I was working at the door at
Speaker 2: the strip club and I was doing the Saudi Arabian
Speaker 2: Ambassador's residents.
Speaker 1: Yeah security, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so I need to
Speaker 1: have a job. Blake, I know that went through the
Speaker 1: gangs and all that. He was described himself as becoming
Speaker 1: a citizen after he left there. Before there and he
Speaker 1: said he was an outlaw. I won't mention the club,
Speaker 1: but the president was saying that it's about time you
Speaker 1: get a job, and he said, well, fuck that, I'm
Speaker 1: an outlaw law job.
Speaker 2: Is that the the you need a job? Like he's
Speaker 2: going to pay dues? Are going to pay for your
Speaker 2: by bike or do anything? Really going to go going
Speaker 2: on a run? You know how you're going to pay
Speaker 2: for hotel stuff like that? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Actually I was just selling a lot of drugs and
Speaker 2: making a lot of money. You need a job and
Speaker 2: I fucking didn't have a job.
Speaker 1: Tell us just say, people that don't understand the biking world,
Speaker 1: give us an overview of a week in a week
Speaker 1: without giving yourself up on anything. But what's the week
Speaker 1: in the bike? Is you got your club meeting.
Speaker 2: On a night as with a job or without a job,
Speaker 2: without a job, what it'd be Monday? I'd wake up
Speaker 2: at about eleven am, probably have a line of rack
Speaker 2: or something with the mother, my housemate, with other boys.
Speaker 2: We'd chill out, we'd try and get girls. We scroll
Speaker 2: on Instagram, put up I was young with twenty twenty
Speaker 2: one years old? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Young?
Speaker 2: It's just putting up photos driving around trying to sell drugs,
Speaker 2: flat stick and then Tuesday would come, you do the
Speaker 2: same thing. It's this your Groundhog Day every single day.
Speaker 2: And there'd be days where you wouldn't sleep for like
Speaker 2: three nights. You'd be just doing big vendors, and then
Speaker 2: you'd get in trouble.
Speaker 1: Trouble through the from the game. Yeah, for doing what
Speaker 1: you meant to be doing.
Speaker 2: There wass another one where we went about Facebook. At
Speaker 2: the time, this is before like social medias were a
Speaker 2: real thing with bikes. Yeah, we're allowed. We're allowed of Facebook.
Speaker 2: So a lot of would have secret ones because you're
Speaker 2: fucking young. You want to talk to girls and you
Speaker 2: want to do things. I've got found out. I've got
Speaker 2: to find fifteen hundred dollars for having Facebook, and then
Speaker 2: like two weeks later, through through the through the have
Speaker 2: a hearing, you get fifteen hundred dollars, have anyone representing yourself.
Speaker 2: You don't even get represented. It's like, man, you know
Speaker 2: the rules, fifte hundred bucks. Fuck, I don't know. Poor
Speaker 2: as fun. There isn't nothing as it is, so you
Speaker 2: just give them money. And two weeks later they unbanned
Speaker 2: that you were allowed to have Facebook. So it's like
Speaker 2: what a fucking joe? Okay, they're going to get the
Speaker 2: money backs, Like, no.
Speaker 1: Mat didn't make it retrospective.
Speaker 2: Yeah the fuck on now we're going to use it
Speaker 2: to recruit. It's like, fuck, this kind of happened like
Speaker 2: two weeks ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that's the life you you're a young fellow.
Speaker 1: I've had spoken to other bikies that were working life
Speaker 1: and they're saying that work of life is there. They're
Speaker 1: different ways of being in the clubs, like as in
Speaker 1: they had jobs and the bike bike.
Speaker 2: If you had a job, you're probably a bit better off.
Speaker 2: You wouldn't have to do as much. That's prob. I
Speaker 2: had to drive him around all day every day. I'd
Speaker 2: got to get it, come to mine at ten, pick
Speaker 2: him up, drive him around's been talking, going around, just
Speaker 2: doing a lot of talking. Sergeant natural state sergeant. Oh.
Speaker 2: Sometimes once a month, every Tuesday, I'd have to drive
Speaker 2: him up at Sydney for the fucking big meeting. Once
Speaker 2: a month. It's a lot of driving and I'd rather
Speaker 2: At the point I was like, I wish I was
Speaker 2: going to have to come up with a lie and
Speaker 2: say I have a job so I wouldn't have to
Speaker 2: go and.
Speaker 1: See the life you're describing them. We've all been through
Speaker 1: stage uber driving, but we've all been through stages in
Speaker 1: life that you don't quite like what you're doing and
Speaker 1: you're sort of put up with it. You're taking a
Speaker 1: high risk being in the bike is you're not enjoying
Speaker 1: it by the sounds of it. There's the highlights, like
Speaker 1: you said, the women and the drugs at the start
Speaker 1: were a highlight, but that can become a bit repetitive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing, Like I want to fucking we've
Speaker 2: got made Sergeant arms. There was a lot more responsibility
Speaker 2: as well, and you couldn't really say no to doing
Speaker 2: anything because I had to do it because it was
Speaker 2: my position. I didn't There's a lot of things I
Speaker 2: didn't want to do what I had to do it.
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit more about the
Speaker 1: role of sergeant of arms because it seems like the
Speaker 1: poison Chaloue and the amount of people.
Speaker 2: A position with a lot of power. I cann's basically
Speaker 2: just stand forcing an action. You can do whatever you want.
Speaker 2: You got more power than a VP. Basically you can.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's with every club, but the
Speaker 2: clubs I was in, you could sergeant Arms you could.
Speaker 2: I can force violence on any member at any point
Speaker 2: if you wanted to, you know what I mean, for
Speaker 2: any reason. So and I hated doing that ship. What's
Speaker 2: especially like the young fellows because I was coming up
Speaker 2: as a normal I fucking hated it. So I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put them through that ship. I'd take them
Speaker 2: out to party with me and they'd get in trouble.
Speaker 2: You know, I'll get in trouble too, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. But yeah, I didn't want to pull other ship.
Speaker 2: And this is fucked up, and you're thinking, fuck me,
Speaker 2: why do you put me in this particament position. I
Speaker 2: now got to pump out in front of everyone.
Speaker 1: So I make the observation of living the outlaw lifestyle.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of rules and regulations, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for suppose outlaw live your life how you want.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of rules, and they're going to go
Speaker 2: to the Constitution and ship like that. You can't do this,
Speaker 2: you can't sell this, that's a lie they're doing that.
Speaker 2: You can't sell this certain drug, you can't do this,
Speaker 2: and they're all doing it anyway.
Speaker 1: Could have anyone first of all, did anyone try and
Speaker 1: pull you away from the lifestyle. Did anyone that you
Speaker 1: respected sort of tap beyond?
Speaker 2: I think all the ship that with the cops were
Speaker 2: fucking around, and you pushed me further into it. I
Speaker 2: understand they got a job to do, just saying ship
Speaker 2: as well or fucking just destroying ship. It's like, why
Speaker 2: are you doing, cosucker? Just make me when I you
Speaker 2: coming in the clubhouse and ripping it apart, or even
Speaker 2: like your are in bedroom like my parents' house and
Speaker 2: they just tear it apart.
Speaker 1: It's like, how how were you were you back on
Speaker 1: speaking terms with your old before I got locked up?
Speaker 1: I was you went in as a gang member?
Speaker 2: Yep?
Speaker 1: What what's that like in prison?
Speaker 2: Well, they're segregated. It's like you got like different club yards.
Speaker 2: So you got like comos, rebels, phinx, no, mad's like
Speaker 2: different yards. They're all separated. You have no contact at all,
Speaker 2: and if there is, that's a mistake on the screws part,
Speaker 2: which happened a lot ironically, if you ended up in
Speaker 2: the same yard, not in the same holding, like you say,
Speaker 2: you're going up for meds or you're on for a
Speaker 2: VL sometimes that you accidentally get put in the same
Speaker 2: holding cell and.
Speaker 1: So what's the mentality then if you're you got to
Speaker 1: do it because you're on camera as well.
Speaker 2: And it's like because there in there, it's like their
Speaker 2: own little community, you know what I mean. Like it's
Speaker 2: the screws and camera, the screws and the inmates talk,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, and you hear it all
Speaker 2: the time. Fucking oh yeah, this kind of bitched out
Speaker 2: to him. So like the first time I locked up
Speaker 2: on my birthday, when I first went in, I got
Speaker 2: put in the cell where you before you get transported
Speaker 2: to the prison. I got put in. Is one of
Speaker 2: my best mates back in the day. Will rebels together
Speaker 2: over the comments. It's good guy, awesome, but we just
Speaker 2: we were put the same thing and it's like, we
Speaker 2: fucking have to do this, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So you got one cunt block on the camera when
Speaker 2: him going out of it. Oh, I sit here and
Speaker 2: I understand, God, dummy, you understand it. Oh no, mad,
Speaker 2: he's a comment.
Speaker 1: You know, I understand understand violence. But the last time
Speaker 1: I thought someone I didn't want to fight was in
Speaker 1: the school yard when the kids are forming round.
Speaker 2: Game to do it a fight, fight, fight, But it
Speaker 2: doesn't look good because because like camera's a small place
Speaker 2: and people talk, you know what I mean, so they
Speaker 2: find out everything, Like my mom mum found out like
Speaker 2: a day later what happened. I was like, what are
Speaker 2: we talking about? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: But like, do you like I'm saying, yeah, as you
Speaker 1: get older, you might have to have a fight. You
Speaker 1: understand that. But he's a bloke that you haven't got
Speaker 1: a real gripe with. And as business though, it's like
Speaker 1: just club ship. It looks like schoolboys stuff in that.
Speaker 1: I like you, but I'm going to have to punch
Speaker 1: on because otherwise we're gonna And the only.
Speaker 2: Reason we fought was because he started to comos and
Speaker 2: which I'll think it back then, if like I was
Speaker 2: saying before, if I had a president like Alan Meahan
Speaker 2: or whatever, I'd still be there because he's like the
Speaker 2: ideal boss. He's a fucking gentleman, a different way of caring.
Speaker 2: He gives a fuck about his boys.
Speaker 1: How did you end up sergeant arms? And what's the
Speaker 1: quality of the sergeant arms they look for? You're going
Speaker 1: to have to be able to look after yourself because
Speaker 1: violence I didn't.
Speaker 2: I wasn't made sergeant arms because of fighting or anything.
Speaker 2: She was like a lot of other things. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I was always if I was asking this something, I
Speaker 2: would do it within reason. Like there'd be one time
Speaker 2: where we had an arrival club beefing with heavy at
Speaker 2: the time eating or eating in our area, which is
Speaker 2: so fucking they're eating in the area. We've got to
Speaker 2: do something about it. And looking back as so fucking sad.
Speaker 1: He's embarrassing, it seems. But you look back now with
Speaker 1: the distance from it at the time.
Speaker 2: If I think it's a imagine what other people at
Speaker 2: the time think about that ship.
Speaker 1: So someone someone's come into your patch. Basically, yeah, sons
Speaker 1: in our area. So we got to do something about it.
Speaker 1: So these I was sober, a couple of arts were sober,
Speaker 1: and the rest they were on a bender at the time.
Speaker 1: They found us out. They found out they were having
Speaker 1: a feed where we frequent and I was like, I
Speaker 1: want you to go there, and I wanted to fucking
Speaker 1: shoot it up, like spray it. I'm thinking, are you
Speaker 1: fucking serious, mate?
Speaker 2: Like it was me. I was sergeant. We had another
Speaker 2: young fella brought in and then a driver. I think
Speaker 2: you want me to go and shoot up a public
Speaker 2: fucking area at seven pm at night, like prime dinner
Speaker 2: time on a Friday night. It's like, you fucking dumb,
Speaker 2: Like and I it's like, what if I hit someone
Speaker 2: or even if I don't, I get like them. I'm
Speaker 2: doing to do like ten to fifteen years easily. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and throw throw my way, throw away my life for
Speaker 2: what just because you've got to fucking sow ego. You
Speaker 2: can't do it yourself, you're fuck wed like within reason,
Speaker 2: I do it, but like that's just dumb. What's the
Speaker 2: point but you So we did it, or we drove
Speaker 2: past and outside the boys, I'm not going to because
Speaker 2: it's them as well. They're young. It's like we're going
Speaker 2: to do a lot of time for this too. If
Speaker 2: it's like we're going to go, we're going to go.
Speaker 2: We're going to tell him that they're not there anymore.
Speaker 2: Out there still. So we drove past seeing him, I said, okay,
Speaker 2: we're going to wait around a while, we're going to
Speaker 2: do anything. We're going to when I go back and say, oh,
Speaker 2: he's not there, not there anymore, and then leave it
Speaker 2: at that. And that's just left at that. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think I was do you do you watch and we're out.
Speaker 1: I'm not asking if you got any inside knowledge or whatever,
Speaker 1: but my observation of some ship that goes down and
Speaker 1: people often say what's going on with this gang war
Speaker 1: or this or that? Sometimes it's as stupid are's things
Speaker 1: like that thing And it can be one person just
Speaker 1: talking tough and never undus falls.
Speaker 2: As I'm saying something in social media you said all
Speaker 2: the time like fuck you, fuck this club or fus
Speaker 2: and it becomes something out of nothing.
Speaker 1: Because I know the media often asking what's what's fueling
Speaker 1: this this violence, and that something's something stupid.
Speaker 2: It's tiny, miniscule. It's either money or a tiny little
Speaker 2: beef over a girl or something someone said on the
Speaker 2: grapevine and spun it and created drama. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: have anything serious.
Speaker 1: Really, What were your your parents thinking when you're in this,
Speaker 1: because you know, regardless of how old the whole old
Speaker 1: you are and how long you've been out of home.
Speaker 2: My mum hated it, and I didn't realize at the
Speaker 2: time all the damage and stuff I was doing to
Speaker 2: her job. Like I went in the house first, got
Speaker 2: has got shut up the first time a five. I
Speaker 2: tried to keep it a secret but because my mum's
Speaker 2: job is like, they've got intel and stuff as well,
Speaker 2: they knew what the fuck's going on, and go was
Speaker 2: it meant for me?
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to get a sense of it too
Speaker 1: when she's You know, when you're in prison, if they
Speaker 1: come to visit you, they saying what are you going
Speaker 1: to do when you get out? Because you're in how
Speaker 1: long did you get?
Speaker 2: For bears? But when I got out it hit the
Speaker 2: media too. Yeah, I looked at I was w a
Speaker 2: today Brisbane Times especially righted at your house. Yeah, the
Speaker 2: fucking Then the cops put the thing and I was
Speaker 2: seen running to the toilet trying to flush drugs, and
Speaker 2: I mentionedly he tripped over and during the thing, I
Speaker 2: was like you, I try to run you down in there.
Speaker 1: And so at the time, I'm trying to get the
Speaker 1: sense of you. At the time, did you think, okay,
Speaker 1: well this is just the price I pay it, this
Speaker 1: is this is cool? Did you get the ships with
Speaker 1: yourself and go like, well I didn't.
Speaker 2: I didn't really think about it much until I started
Speaker 2: like affecting my mum's job, And then it took me
Speaker 2: going to prison to realize all the ship I was
Speaker 2: putting them through, you know what I mean. Like when
Speaker 2: I was locked up, there was a point where fucking
Speaker 2: in prison, I couldn't talk to me mum, just so
Speaker 2: she could keep her job. We had my lawyer divvy
Speaker 2: up a thing where we were I'd been like no
Speaker 2: contact for like two years, and then we couldn't talk
Speaker 2: for a bit till I got out.
Speaker 1: After I got out, and that that's purely because the
Speaker 1: job that she had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not going to make it's not you all
Speaker 2: fault that I was.
Speaker 1: A piece of shit in conflict. Were you? Were you
Speaker 1: in a relationship at the time, yes, how was that.
Speaker 2: Together? And then we broke up after I got out
Speaker 2: because before I went back again. It's in there. You
Speaker 2: see a lot of the boys doing head miles over
Speaker 2: women in jail, Like I swear, amplifies, amplifies your feelings
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, because you think, oh, I'm going
Speaker 2: to get out, baby, we're going to get married, We're
Speaker 2: going to do all this, and they get out and
Speaker 2: doesn't happen. They see boys in there, Like I was
Speaker 2: in the yard with one of the boys and he
Speaker 2: would spend one hundred and fifty bucks a week on
Speaker 2: the phone just to talk to his missus, Like you
Speaker 2: we'd have the visit. It sees miss as the first
Speaker 2: thing you did. We'd come back and bring his missus again.
Speaker 2: Like guys go crazy in there. Yeah, in a relationship.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I'm not doing any of that.
Speaker 2: That make me time even harder.
Speaker 1: Well, I would imagine it would be harder. And I
Speaker 1: would also imagine when you're inside and you're doing a
Speaker 1: long stint, you'd be going, well, is she going to
Speaker 1: move on from me? Yeah? You don't know what was
Speaker 1: going on. You don't know, so it's kind of selfish
Speaker 1: to fucking I can keep them. Yeah, So how many stints?
Speaker 1: Stints did you do in prison to break it down?
Speaker 2: It was like locked up on my birthday was like October.
Speaker 2: Then all that stuff happened with the undercover cop and
Speaker 2: the wire and they got locked up again. It was
Speaker 2: like two would be years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what what was the second one?
Speaker 2: More the sale of the pills, cocaine and valium and
Speaker 2: proceeds of crime. I got more time for the value
Speaker 2: than I did the cocaine, which is funny.
Speaker 1: How did that break it?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think fifty bottles of valium's a
Speaker 2: bit more than an ouncer case.
Speaker 1: Yeah okay, yeah yeah. And so you didn't learn your
Speaker 1: lesson the first time.
Speaker 2: The second time, I'm thinking I had a lot of time.
Speaker 2: It was because my lay goes, you need a the
Speaker 2: early guilty player. He goes, I go, how we look,
Speaker 2: and he goes, you fucked like you've literally on video
Speaker 2: and photos giving an undercover cop drugs and receipt. You
Speaker 2: can't beat it. Let'st we can do like a psychroport
Speaker 2: report early guilty please. So I got twenty five percent off,
Speaker 2: and so I was lucky I got the full twenty
Speaker 2: five because I was looking at like he goes, You're
Speaker 2: looking like nine years like six on the bottom, nine
Speaker 2: years on the top. Was like fuck, I said, if
Speaker 2: I don't want to be in here after I'm thirty.
Speaker 2: If I said, if I if I'm in here after
Speaker 2: I'm thirty, I'm gonna fuck if I get out at
Speaker 2: thirty thirty one. I think I'm gonna kill myself, you know,
Speaker 2: because I want to waste the life. And then I
Speaker 2: went into the rehab yard, which is like the therapeutic community,
Speaker 2: which kind of like talking to someone helped me a lot,
Speaker 2: as well, I figured out what I want to do
Speaker 2: in my life, and like I talking like the people
Speaker 2: like you were a good Christian Catholic boy and all
Speaker 2: the kind of stuff. I was like, you don't have
Speaker 2: to be from the mud to get dirty, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. It's more so I'm probably a bit
Speaker 2: more inclined to be smarter with that kinds of stuff,
Speaker 2: like making money and stuff. But then I got out,
Speaker 2: and then there's no incentive for any for them to
Speaker 2: help you and stuff Like I went out, I'm going
Speaker 2: to change my whole life. I'm going to do everything
Speaker 2: I want to do and be like prop. I wanted
Speaker 2: to be like a youth worker, so I did. I
Speaker 2: went to like CIT which is like TAFE. So I
Speaker 2: did CIRT three community services and then search for in
Speaker 2: youth work, did the whole thing, all the assignments passed them.
Speaker 1: This is when you're inside.
Speaker 2: No, this is like within a couple months a me
Speaker 2: get now right. But then when I went to the workplacement,
Speaker 2: I couldn't even fucking finish it because I couldn't get
Speaker 2: a lot of person's card. It's like fuck, And then
Speaker 2: they are these people they want you to change and
Speaker 2: change turn your life around and do anything. But then
Speaker 2: they don't help you or given an incentive or not
Speaker 2: even not an incentive, but they just like they make
Speaker 2: it hard for you to change. And then I'm lucky
Speaker 2: for me. I've got a good support network and good
Speaker 2: mates and family, but I didn't turn back and go
Speaker 2: back to all that doing that bullshit.
Speaker 1: Well, if you break it down, you had your first stint.
Speaker 1: You didn't learn from that because you've come out and
Speaker 1: done the same for you. But I would imagine that
Speaker 1: adds to your paranoid as well, because the cops know,
Speaker 1: well you've convicted drug dealer. Yeah, it's not hard to
Speaker 1: look around. What are you up to? What are you
Speaker 1: up to now? How long were you out before you
Speaker 1: got locked up the second time?
Speaker 2: Two months? Right? Okay, so you didn't ever in that space,
Speaker 2: they fucking yes, slam me. So you Yeah, well you've
Speaker 2: come it's all out of just fucking I need money stressing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you've come out with the intent that you're going to
Speaker 2: continue on them. But the second time, you same time, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I got a fucking what am I doing my life?
Speaker 2: Like my mum like still having drums with her job
Speaker 2: stuff like that, and I mean, my grandma was sick
Speaker 2: and fucking I'm thinking of the mirror, like what the
Speaker 2: fuck am I doing? I don't belong here. It's like
Speaker 2: I'm trying to be a piece of ship. But it's
Speaker 2: like a lot of the boys in there in jail.
Speaker 2: I don't do eyes, so I don't hang around that
Speaker 2: stuff or you know. I mean, it's like that's not me.
Speaker 2: I don't call my sell my home like a lot
Speaker 2: of people do, like yeah, I'm going to go back
Speaker 2: to my home or this that it's not funny. Fucking
Speaker 2: grew up a fucking nerd, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: playing video games and watching cartoons and ship.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, look we might we might take a break.
Speaker 1: What I want to cover off on in part two.
Speaker 1: I want to break down the shootings at home and
Speaker 1: the fire bombing in a little bit more detail, because
Speaker 1: I think what's going on in the streets Sydney at
Speaker 1: the moment, and there's these drive by shootings and everything
Speaker 1: else going on, and I want you to give like
Speaker 1: a personal camp.
Speaker 2: There's another big wake up, Paul, like they did the
Speaker 2: trajectory of the nine millimeters. Yeah forty five sorry and
Speaker 2: mean mum wasn't in bed at the time. She'd have
Speaker 2: been in bed at that time because she's where she
Speaker 2: slapped with. She would have been right through her. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking the.
Speaker 1: Fuck, Well, that's the type of thing.
Speaker 2: That's when I started to think about leaving.
Speaker 1: That's the type of thing I want people people to hear,
Speaker 1: because people look at it and think it will happen
Speaker 1: to other people.
Speaker 2: But I thought it would happen to me. No, you
Speaker 2: get get caught up in it, and then no one's
Speaker 2: going to fucking come and shoot up my house.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. But it's all that dumb bravardo that
Speaker 1: you have as a young blake and how you have
Speaker 1: got associated with doing the gang exit video and what
Speaker 1: the purpose behind that is and what you hope to achieve.
Speaker 1: We've putting this message out to young fellows life. I've
Speaker 1: got to say, the life you've described, now, yeah, there
Speaker 1: might have been some highs, but there's more lowers and highs.
Speaker 2: Isn't it guaranteed? Fuckings here? Looking back? Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: I'm so what. I'm surprised I'm not still in prison, honestly. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it should I had to do or got told to do.
Speaker 2: I drinks myself.
Speaker 1: But well, I suppose that's why people are going to
Speaker 1: listen to you, because you've been through being through the pathway.
Speaker 1: So anyway, let's discuss that when we get back Part two.