WEBVTT - Danica De Giorgio | 8 August 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:04.519 Live on Sky's Australia. 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:06.440 This is to Nika di. 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:10.520 Giorgio, Hello and welcome to the show. Coming up tonight. 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:15.320 Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke finally caves to pressure, canceling 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.480 the visa of a Palestinian woman who praised the October 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.360 seven massacre and even thanked Allah for keeping her alive 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:26.920 long enough to witness Hamas's rampage. The Federal Court told 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:30.920 sex is non binary, along with other bizarre contradictions about 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.479 what a woman is. I am, of course, referring to 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:35.400 the case of Giggle versus Tickle. 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:36.599 Don't miss my. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:40.000 Interview with Giggle app founder sal Grover coming up. It's 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:43.480 her first interview since her appeal was heard. This week, 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:48.080 and Israel's security Cabinet approves Benjamin Netnia, who's plan to 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:52.559 occupy Gaza City. But first to breaking news. Within the 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.840 last hour, it has been announced the Australian visa for 0:00:55.920 --> 0:01:00.200 a Palestinian woman who supported the October seven massacre has 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:05.120 finally been canceled. Tony Burke made the announcement after this 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:09.280 woman's history was exposed by The Herald Son. Now you 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:13.640 have to ask how was this woman even considered Four 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.640 of visa in the first place, and why weren't better 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.399 background checks in order? And it adds to the question 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:24.600 of what sort of a country do we want to 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.440 live in now? This is something I have asked myself 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:31.360 many times since October seven, twenty twenty three, because week 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:35.640 in week out, these anti Israel protests bring shame to Australia. 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:39.119 Our values are being eroded by those who hate us, 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:42.320 and clearly our national security. 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.759 Is at risk because of it. Is it too late 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:45.440 to save it? 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.120 I don't know, But what I do know is labor 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:51.400 has put us in this position. 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.800 Who is a bringing into the country now? 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:59.000 This woman from Palestine monazar Head praise the October seven 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:03.160 massacre and even thanked Allah for keeping her alive long 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:07.520 enough to witness Harmasa's deadly attack on Israel. Yet she 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.280 was somehow granted a visa to come here now, despite 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.440 posting this picture on social media the day after the attack. 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:18.360 Saying we woke up and got God's kingdom. 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.880 She posted a photo of terrified festival goers with the 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:25.160 words praise be to Allah, who has kept us alive 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:26.200 to see this day. 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:28.079 So really an answer to. 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:32.760 My earlier question, this is the type of person labor 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.840 is accepting to come here, and the opposition was today 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:38.200 rightly asking questions. 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.160 They are weak, they are hopeless. 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.240 Tony Burke, quite frankly, if the visa is not canceled 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:45.920 today should step aside. 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:46.720 He should resign. 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:50.400 If you support the slaughter of innocent men and women, 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:51.800 you're not welcome in this country. 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.320 On what planet do we think it's okay Pete to 0:02:54.440 --> 0:03:00.760 be importing self declared jew haters, self declared terrorists, sympathizers 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.400 into a country. That is not the way to build 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:08.720 social cohesion. And look, of course, I Labor are repeat offenders. 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:11.800 Three thousand gardens were handed visas with little to no 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.919 security checks. We knew it was a risk, we knew 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.960 what would happen bringing people in from those countries, some 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:21.840 of whose values may not represent our own. But this 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.079 is a bigger issue for us than the war raging 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.360 in the Middle East. This is about Australia and the 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:31.240 type of country we have become. We've lost our way, 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:35.200 We are a cesspit of social anarchy and our values 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.160 have been eroded. And this is what was on full 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.280 display to the world on Sunday when ninety thousand anti 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:45.600 Israel protesters shut down the Harbor Bridge, flags of Hamas 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:48.840 and the Taliban were waived, a photo of the Ayatola 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.040 of Iran was on display, and death to the IDF 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:56.480 was chanted. High profile activists Nasamanschi essentially gave Australia the 0:03:56.520 --> 0:04:00.760 middle finger, writing on social media, whose bridge our bridge 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.000 from the river to the sea, and these people are 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:09.200 laughing in our faces, They are laughing at our core values. 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:12.120 You don't have to be Jewish to see the threat 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.840 that is unfolding in front of our very eyes. Anthony 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.479 Arberanesi is clearly all but gearing up to recognize Palestine. 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:22.800 And that might not mean much on a local front, 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:24.680 but on the international front. 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:25.640 It means everything. 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.799 It basically says Palestine has a right to exist, Israel 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:33.880 does not, and for us at home, it only emboldens 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:37.000 those who seek to cause us harm. In fact, the 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.200 PM's response to the Harbor Bridge protest tells you everything 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:40.800 you need to know. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:46.640 Yesterday's march was peaceful and was an opportunity for people 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:52.400 to express their concern about what is happening in Gaza, 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.719 and the images that we've seen peaceful. 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.200 Really, I mean, this is a Prime Minister who has 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.080 had his own envoys report into anti Semitism sitting on 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:08.760 his desk for weeks now, and has done absolutely nothing 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:12.279 about it. But of course we're used to the lax approach. 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.560 Where was the hardline stance when where are the Jews? 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:17.760 Or whatever was shouted at the steps of the Sydney 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.320 Opera House, or when a hate preacher told us he 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.360 was elated at the October seven massacre, or when synagogues 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:28.279 were firebombed and other acts of anti Semitism across the country, 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.559 or when nurses allegedly set on camera that they won't 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:35.440 treat Jewish patients they would kill them again. Is this 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.640 the sort of country we want to live in now? 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:41.080 In my opinion, I believe a lot of what we 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:44.680 are witnessing comes from the fact that the multiculturalism experiment 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:46.160 has failed in Australia. 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:48.800 We have brought people into this country. 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.880 Some who hate us, some who hate our country, some 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:55.680 who hate our values, and some who have absolutely no 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.760 interest in assimilating. And this in particular pertains to the 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:03.680 un impact of radical Islamism. Now, of course, most Muslims 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:05.359 live peacefully in our society. 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:06.640 I am not denying that. 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:12.400 However, radical Islamism is incompatible with Western democracies. 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:15.600 Until we do more to stop importing people. 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.680 Here who do not share our values, I fear nothing 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:23.520 will change because their culture is so far removed from 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:24.159 our own. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.960 It is a culture of hate and it is toxic. 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.760 It is in sacred Islamic texts like the Quran that 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:37.360 prescribe violence, and prescribe violence against Jews. The Sahib Bukari 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:39.960 states that there is a Jew hiding behind me, so 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.440 kill him for example. Now, of course many Muslims would 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.440 argue that that passage or others are not a command 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:50.840 or an incitement, rather a prediction, but it presents a 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.599 real cultural challenge for Australia, and based on what we 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.800 have witnessed here since October seven, I don't think we 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.840 have control over the culture are trying to create here anymore. 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.960 The new norm is flags of terror groups and chance 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:07.320 of death to the IDF. 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:08.400 And this is. 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.840 Australia where our security and safety is at risk and 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:15.480 our sense of identity that our ANZACs fought so hard 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.800 for is being eroded. And this is why it just 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:24.200 absolutely beggars belief that a Palestinian woman who supported the 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.520 October seven massacre would be granted a visa to come here. 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.239 A spokesperson for Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke has told 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.440 Sky News late this afternoon that the Department has advised 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:39.000 the Office that the visa was canceled today. The reasons 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:41.680 have been communicated directly to the applicant. 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:48.120 Well, g common sense at last, at last, But why did. 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.080 It take the Herald Sun newspaper to expose this in 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.120 the first place and for the Coalition to put the 0:07:54.160 --> 0:08:00.480 Minister under pressure before Tony Burke actually acted. Otherwise nothing, 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.240 nothing at all would have changed, And earlier. 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:05.520 A spokesperson for Berg said. 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:09.600 The government is serious in its view about not importing hatred. 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.520 Well, it's too late, minister. 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:18.240 You have already important hatred and we are all paying 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:24.560 the price for it. Well, there's never been a more 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.280 important case currently before the courts than Giggle versus Tickle, 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.520 because depending on the outcome of an appeal, it could 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:35.960 have far ranging ramifications for Australia and would impact every 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.240 single one of us, from our freedom of speech to 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:43.040 the way men and women are legally defined. Now right now, 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:47.520 if you're a man and you identify as female, congratulations, 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:51.520 you can legally be classified as a woman, and if 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.920 you dare to challenge that, well you may just get. 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.120 Hold in front of a court. Now. 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.280 I have sat in disbelief watching the Giggle Versus Tickle 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:03.640 appeal in the Federal Court this week, where biological man 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:09.199 roxand Tickle argued they had injured feelings after being booted 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.560 out of a female only app and have been misgendered. 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.040 Seriously, give me a break. 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.240 This is the argument running through the courts now that 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:22.200 if your feelings are hurt, you can claim damages. It 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:26.800 tells you everything you need to know about this dystopian universe. 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:28.360 We are living in this. 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.240 Whole appeal and the case prior has been nothing short 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:34.400 of a cloud show. At Giggle for Girls founder Sal Grover, 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:36.760 who will join me in the studio shortly, You're not 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.360 going to want to miss that interview. Well, she's still 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.720 going through the legal system all because a judge last. 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:44.400 Year claimed sex was changeable. 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.480 Now, if someone can please explain how that works if 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.920 you're born with a penis and suddenly you claim to 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:51.840 be a woman, I'd really love to know. 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:52.720 Please tell me. 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.080 Yet, much of the appeal in Giggle Versus Tickle has 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:59.640 centered around the definition of sex of a woman and 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:01.000 what it means to be a woman. 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:03.679 The court heard Tickle submitted. 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.280 This photo to the app and that the low cut 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.240 top and hair down indicated that they are a woman, 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:10.559 that it should have been a. 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:11.959 Dead giveaway of sorts. 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:16.040 Well, sal Grover immediately checked the photo and barred Roxandtickle 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.520 from membership. And so here we are today now haven't 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.600 listened to some of the most bizarre, nonsensical contradictions to 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:25.240 come out of this week's appeal. 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:27.440 Council for Equality. 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.360 Australia Ruth Higgins SC told the court the word sex 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:34.079 in the Sex Discrimination Act is neither a binary concept 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:38.680 nor one that's biologically fixed when designated at birth. She 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.079 went on to say sex is a way of classifying 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.559 people along a scale between a man at one end 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.680 and a woman at the other, but as a matter 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:51.400 of ordinary meaning, the statute is agnostic as to where 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:56.160 persons are plotted along that scale. So basically, anywhere you 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.520 assign yourself along that scale of male to female makes 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.720 you want you want to be apparently, and this is frightening. 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:04.319 It's really frightening. 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.960 Because it totally blurs the distinction between the two and 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.520 the fact that there is even a proposal that sex 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:14.600 is non binary and that it should be interpreted that 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:19.160 way under our laws should concern everyone. Counsel for the 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:22.160 Sex Discrimination Commissioner silly a winner to even argue that 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:27.760 the word woman in the Act included trans women. Counsel 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.880 for Roxanne Tickle Browner Godding said sal Grover had participated 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.959 in some fifty interviews in relation to the case, and 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.360 in each of those she used the male pronouns for 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:37.960 Miss Tickle. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:39.440 That her conduct has. 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.840 At the very least been seriously aggravating and has caused 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.640 Miss Tickle injured feelings. 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.560 The aggravation and injured feelings have mounted up blow by blow. 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.160 This is not just deeds legitimizing of gender, but a 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.120 delegitimizing of humanity. But listen to this. This one's really 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:58.720 the pearl are out of them all. 0:11:59.160 --> 0:11:59.719 This is not a. 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.640 Case of asking anyone to change their opinions. It is 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.320 not policing the opinions that someone can hold. 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.280 Well, hang on, that is exactly what it is. 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:14.319 It is policing opinions anyone who dares to challenge the 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:18.640 lefts warped fantasyland narrative of gender of what is a 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:23.080 biological fixed reality is policed in this country and hold 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:24.160 in front of a court. 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.200 Why because the law says so. 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.760 Julia Gillard and mended the Sex Discrimination Act in twenty 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:34.720 thirteen and remove the definitions of sex man and woman. 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.280 So discrimination is defined, but sex is not. 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.520 So how can we know what gender identity is when 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.200 our laws have erased those definitions? 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:46.760 And here we are today. 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.839 Debating whether a biological man can be a woman because 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:53.680 our laws currently suggest they can be. Now, in my opinion, 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.320 it says that men's feelings are more important than women's. 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.960 It says that men can have legal protections while women 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:04.600 protections are taken away. And this is why this appeal 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:09.320 is so important. If hurt feelings becomes a legitimate argument, 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.120 if that stands up, it will set a precedent for 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.800 any one of us who challenges the gender narrative. 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:16.959 As JK. 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:21.400 Rowling put it so perfectly, made the best woman win. 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.520 But what is a woman Australia does not know? 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:30.199 Now? 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:31.920 As I said, you don't want to miss my interview 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:35.160 with sal Grover coming up, but in the meantime let's 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:39.080 get into it. Joining me is Shadow Cabinet Secretary Andrew Wallace. Andrew, 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.200 thanks for your time. Look, I want to begin with 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:45.000 that Palestinian woman who praised the October seven massacre. Now 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.720 she was granted a visa to come here, which the Minister, 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.599 Tony Burke said late this afternoon has now been canceled. 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:52.680 But well done to the work of the Herald's son 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.120 for exposing this and for the Coalition for putting him 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.320 under pressure. Otherwise nothing would have happened. We've got three 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.480 thousand gardens here already with little to no security checks. 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.679 What does it say about border security under labor. 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.360 Well, what it demonstrates, Dnika, and thanks for having me on, 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.599 is that there are there's a rule for one and 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.720 there's a rule for others. Just last year in December, 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:23.000 Tony Burke denied a visa to Aleshaked, who was the 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:27.360 former Justice Minister for Israel, on the grounds that she 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:31.760 was going to threaten social cohesion. Then in June this 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:36.120 year he denied a visa for Hillel Fuld on the 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:41.440 same basis. And yet here he has just approved the 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:46.960 visa for this Palaestinian woman who's provided some appalling commentary 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:51.920 in relation to the October seven events, and was and 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:57.200 is a supporter of a listed terrorist organization. Now you know, 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.240 what's good for the goose is good for the gander. 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.480 But what A does continue to demonstrate is that this 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:09.800 government continues to take inconsistent approaches depending on what your 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:10.400 belief is. 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.000 Yeah, look, I completely agree with you. And again it's 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.800 not like you would have done anything, probably not unless 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:18.880 it had been exposed by the Herald's son and the 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.720 Coalition put him under immense pressure today. Otherwise it wouldn't 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.080 be having this conversation. Now, look, I want to ask 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.800 you about Israel's security Cabinet this afternoon voted to approve 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.680 a proposal for the IDF to occupy Gaza City. 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.440 Here was the Israeli Prime Minister speaking on Fox. 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.200 Well, Israel teake control of all of Gaza. 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:44.360 We intend to in order to assure our security, remove 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:48.520 Hamas there, enable the population to be free of Gaza. 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.480 We don't want to be there as a governing body. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:55.080 We want to hand it over to Arab forces. 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.560 Andrew the IDF has avoided entering much of the city 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:02.760 since the start of this war. It will likely require 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.320 a mass evacuation of the area, where about one million 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:10.160 Gazans reside. What is your take on this development. 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:17.800 Well, it's hard to judge from Australia, but my best 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:22.360 reading is that this is an attempt to effectively put 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:28.320 pressure on Hamas, another form of pressure. We just simply 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.640 can't have a situation where Hamas stay in power as 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.960 the ruling body in Gaza. I don't think that anybody 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:39.280 wants that. The Palestinians don't want that. The only body 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:43.280 person or people who want that is Hamas itself. But 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.920 it is very clear Western countries across the world have 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.560 been clear that we cannot see a situation where Hamas 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:55.720 are continuing or have the ability to continue to govern 0:16:56.160 --> 0:17:00.680 in Gaza. So I think ultimately this is another form 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:05.520 of pressure that Prime Minister Netanyahu is putting on Hamas. 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:11.480 And look, time will tell, but the outcome of the 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:17.880 Security Cabinet meeting today it would indicate that the civilians 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:22.159 will be moved from that particular area within Gaza and 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:29.200 Ghaza Sea before the Israel military seek to route what's 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:30.399 left of Hamas out. 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:31.280 Yeah. 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:32.680 All right, well, look, we're we're going to be watching 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:34.720 this one very closely. Andrew Wallace, we have to leave 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:36.280 it there. Thank you very much for joining me on 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:37.040 the show this evening. 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:40.639 Thanks Amika. 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:43.520 Well, as I said earlier, there's never been a more 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.320 important case currently before the courts than Giggle versus Tickle, 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.720 because depending on the outcome of an appeal, it could 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:54.479 have far ranging consequences, from our freedom of speech to 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.960 the way men and women are legally defined. And joining 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.840 me now is Giggle founder Sal Grover. Sal, It's good 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:02.879 to see you. Thank you so much for joining me. 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:03.960 How are you? 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:09.240 Firstly, Oh God, I am exhausted. I'm angry, but I'm optimistic. 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:13.600 I'm exhaustive because litigation is an exhausting roller coaster that 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:16.520 you really wouldn't wish upon your worst enemy. I'm angry 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:21.239 because of legislators and institutions and a lot of the 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:26.760 media just abandoning me and women and lesbians in general. 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.760 But I'm very optimistic because we went into court with reality, 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:35.600 the truth, and I think the truth eventually wins. 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.959 Well, I mean, we certainly hope, so we really really hope. So, 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:40.800 I mean, you know, when you think about it, you 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.639 are fighting against what is a fixed biological reality. You 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.880 have the weight of the women of Australia who understand 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.280 what a woman is, understand gender on your shoulders right now, 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:53.960 how important is this because I don't think that people 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:59.520 really quite understand the ramifications of what's going on here. 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:02.760 If you have just been hearing about this case just 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:05.480 kind of in the background, it's this silly little case 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.199 called giggle vticle about an app and it's like, well, 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.320 who really cares. That's not what this case is about. 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:15.200 This case is about whether reality and truth are in law, 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:19.200 whether women are accurately defined in law, and that the 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:23.439 law is working as it was intended to provide rights 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.720 and protections that women need. So, for example, you have 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:31.520 the Sex Discrimination Commissioner, who is who intervened in this case, 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:35.399 and they are arguing that not only can men be women, 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:37.680 therefore men should be able to go into all women 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:41.040 only space as services, sports men, heterosexual men can be 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.000 lesbians if that's how they identify, and therefore can go 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:45.240 and invade any. 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:46.399 Lesbian event or space. 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.720 They're also saying that men who claim to be women 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:55.000 need pregnancy protections. Now you should just by hearing that, 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.879 you should know how absolutely absurd that sounds. But basically 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.560 what is happening is the Sex Discrimination Commission, a branch 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.760 of the government, is taking an ideological approach, which is 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.879 gender ideology and trying to implement it into law to 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.399 give men rights and protections that one they're not entitled 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:16.280 to too they don't need, while simultaneously taking away provisions 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.879 and rights from women that we do need. So anytime 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:25.000 you go into a change room, a bathroom, even if 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:26.919 you don't play women's sport, if you watch it, if 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.480 you watch men's sport anything, well you see that there 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.479 are some sort of sex segregation in society. They are 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:36.600 trying to completely destroy that and that women will have 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:42.320 absolutely no avenue to have any sort of protections. 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:42.280 That we need. 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:44.800 And this is a scary part because it affects everybody. 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.160 Everybody in this country who has a partner, a mother, 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.080 you know where everyone's got a mother. You know, every 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.879 woman in your life could be seriously impacted by this. 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:56.280 I want to talk about the Sex Discrimination Commission side 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:59.160 of it. I mean, the fact that you're up against the. 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.600 Sex Discrimination Commission is a laugh in itself. What is 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:03.760 the point of. 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:07.199 Having a sex discrimination commissioner who doesn't seem to know 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:08.520 what a woman is? 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:09.560 This is exactly right. 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:14.280 The reality is that sex is immutable, It is binary, 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.920 it is male and female, there is nothing else. If 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:22.760 you don't understand that, you have no business being the 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:27.440 Sex Discrimination Commissioner. Anna Cody is currently the Sex Discrimination Commissioner. 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:31.040 I think she should be forced to resign. She wants 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:35.880 to interpret the law through an intersectional DEI lens okay, 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:41.520 go and do that somewhere with de in intersectionality in 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:43.080 the Sex Discrimination Act. 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:44.520 If you are the custodian of. 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:48.280 It, it is your job to protect the reality of sex. 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:50.760 And if you're not doing that, you should not be there. 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:52.640 No, because I mean, what's the point of having that 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:55.400 role then if you can't if you know, the parameters 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:56.240 are just ridiculous. 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:58.399 Now, look, I want to go through some of the appeal. 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:00.800 There were little bits that really stood out to me 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:04.800 this week that I'm sure the same with you. Firstly, 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:07.639 the Council for Equality Australia Ruth Higgins SC told the 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.760 court that the word sex is non binary extraordinary in 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:12.359 itself and this is what she said, and we've got 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:14.720 the quote here. Sex is a way of classifying people 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:16.919 along a scale between a man at one end and 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:18.720 a woman at the other. But as a matter of 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:22.480 ordinary meaning, the statute is agnostic as to where persons 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:26.439 are plotted along that scale. So the idea of this 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:30.200 is actually very problematic, highly concerning, because it actually blurs 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:32.119 the distinction between a man and a woman. 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:34.560