Speaker 1: Good evening.
Speaker 2: Well, first tonight I can reveal the outgoing Climate Change
Speaker 2: Authority chair Grant King had spoken about a secret society
Speaker 2: working to overturn the government's ban on nuclear energy with
Speaker 2: views like this. Is it any surprise he was sensationally
Speaker 2: axed by Chris Bowen.
Speaker 1: This is a fascinating story.
Speaker 2: It's been big news this week that Chris Bowen replaced
Speaker 2: the chair of the Climate Change Authority with Matt Keene.
Speaker 2: It turns out Bowen's views on energy weren't aligned with
Speaker 2: the outgoing chair, Grant King. I'm going to show you
Speaker 2: video footage right now where King speaks about a secret
Speaker 2: society working.
Speaker 1: On nuclear policy.
Speaker 2: But not only has Chris Bowen replaced him four years
Speaker 2: into his five year term, but the Climate Change Minister
Speaker 2: also launched an inquiry examining his integrity and potential conflicts
Speaker 2: of interest. It turns out, behind the scenes, Grant King
Speaker 2: had been advocating for nuclear energy for years. Have a
Speaker 2: look at this footage the first time it's aired, where
Speaker 2: King says he was becoming increasingly frustrated by parts of
Speaker 2: the energy debate. He says very clearly that there's no
Speaker 2: good or bad energy and that nuclear should be part
Speaker 2: of the mix.
Speaker 3: There's still a great desire to define good fuels and
Speaker 3: bad fuels, and that's not going to help us get there.
Speaker 3: We need absolutely everything working for us, and that also
Speaker 3: includes nuclear. So if we want to get into a debate,
Speaker 3: it's important that we throw nuclear into the mix and
Speaker 3: say astraight. He's going to have to come to grips
Speaker 3: with that issue, and it's going to have to decide
Speaker 3: whether or not it lifts that regulatory prohibition and allows
Speaker 3: the innovation and the investment that's now happening, particularly in
Speaker 3: small modular reactor technology to be applicable here in Australia.
Speaker 2: So that's the outgoing chair of the Climate Change Authority,
Speaker 2: who Chris Bowen has just replaced with Matt Kean Grant
Speaker 2: King saying right there, as you saw in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: just a year before the Albaneze government was elected, that
Speaker 2: nuclear should be part of Australia's energy mix and that
Speaker 2: nuclear energy is important. The chair works closely with Chris Bowen,
Speaker 2: who has a very different view on nuclear, and so
Speaker 2: does the senior team in the Albanese government.
Speaker 4: It's not just certain nuclear is expensive to bill, it's
Speaker 4: also that to make it work, it needs to force
Speaker 4: out the cheapest form of energy, renewables.
Speaker 5: We can continue with the transition to renewable energy, or
Speaker 5: we can get distracted again by the nuclear fantasy proposed
Speaker 5: by those opposite.
Speaker 4: What they have is a plan to erect the future,
Speaker 4: a plan to drive investment out that is needed to
Speaker 4: provide energy security and the lower prices.
Speaker 2: But that's not Grant King's view, and in fact he
Speaker 2: said he was increasingly frustrated by parts of the energy debate.
Speaker 3: So increasingly, and I must say the last month or
Speaker 3: two I've become increasingly frustrated with the terms blue and green,
Speaker 3: because blue and green imply there is a better way
Speaker 3: of making carbon free hydrogen. For example, we've used the
Speaker 3: term green hydrogen than there is blue hydrogen. Makes no difference.
Speaker 3: At the end of the day, it's still a carbon hydrogen,
Speaker 3: it's clean hydrogen.
Speaker 2: But he went further in the speech, with Grant King
Speaker 2: saying that the ban on nuclear in Australia should be
Speaker 2: lifted and that a secret society was working on campaigning
Speaker 2: the government over this.
Speaker 3: That prohibition has to be lifted and there is a
Speaker 3: secret society of people out there trying to figure out
Speaker 3: what conversation they had with government to lift that prohibition.
Speaker 2: And in comments that also would have been at odds
Speaker 2: with Chris Bowen, Grant King advocated carbon storage.
Speaker 3: Everything that reduces emissions is good. There's no good or
Speaker 3: bad reductions of emissions, and there tends to be. And
Speaker 3: the classic example here is gees sequestration. I mean, every
Speaker 3: time that term is mentioned among some parts of the community,
Speaker 3: it's and oh my god, event, how could we possibly
Speaker 3: talk about that? It's neither good nor bad. If we're
Speaker 3: storing carbon and storing carbon safely, that's as good as
Speaker 3: reducing emissions in some other location. And you can't get
Speaker 3: to net zero any other way than recognizing that that
Speaker 3: duality exists.
Speaker 2: Well, with views like this, is it any surprise that
Speaker 2: Chris Bowen replaced Grant King with Matt Kean a year early.
Speaker 2: Kean was conveniently on the same page as his new master.
Speaker 6: In order to bring nuclear into the system, it would
Speaker 6: take far too long and would be far too expensive
Speaker 6: for New South Wales. Now, I didn't want to bankrupt
Speaker 6: the state and I didn't want to put those huge
Speaker 6: costs onto families.
Speaker 2: Well, Chris Bowen is so radical that being energy agnostic,
Speaker 2: as Grant King clearly is, is a crime. To Grant King,
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem to matter which energy methods are used
Speaker 2: as long as the emission's reduction targets are reached. But
Speaker 2: labor has this illogical ideological opposition to nuclear. And then
Speaker 2: there was also the complaint against Grant King by the
Speaker 2: far left think tank the Australia Institute in May last year.
Speaker 2: Instead of just dismissing the complaint as nonsensical, the Albertezer
Speaker 2: government actually launched an inquiry into its own Climate Change
Speaker 2: Authority chair. Now political veteran Dennis Shanahan had this brilliant
Speaker 2: report in The Australian this week where he writes about
Speaker 2: how Grant King was shockingly subject to an integrity probe.
Speaker 2: He writes that in May last year, the Australia Institute
Speaker 2: asked mister Bowen to investigate potential conflicts of interest at
Speaker 2: the CCA, the Climate Change Authority, and particularly mister King.
Speaker 2: To Mister Bowen also said members of the Climate Change
Speaker 2: Authority Board should not also be employed by companies or
Speaker 2: organizations that could be affected by the CCA's recommendations. After
Speaker 2: a departmental review mister Bowen told the Australia Institute aspects
Speaker 2: of the regulations about potential conflicts of interest were not
Speaker 2: in keeping with requirements and changes had been made. So
Speaker 2: this is all what has unfolded behind closed doors, Chris
Speaker 2: Bowen ordering a humiliating inquiry into his own Climate Change
Speaker 2: Authority chair based on complaints from a radical left wing
Speaker 2: think tank. Now we know the Climate Change Authority itself
Speaker 2: is aiming for an emissions reduction target between sixty five
Speaker 2: and seventy five percent by twenty thirty five. I've shown
Speaker 2: you those documents and that's ambitious given the twenty thirty
Speaker 2: target of forty two percent is unlikely to be met
Speaker 2: to experts. But it seems Chair Grant King wasn't green enough.
Speaker 2: Chris Bowen doesn't want energy agnostic. He doesn't want to
Speaker 2: even consider the advice of his top experts. He's driven
Speaker 2: purely by ideology. Now I'm going to come back to
Speaker 2: that story in a moment with my panel. The revelation
Speaker 2: that the Climate Change Authority Chair had advocated for a
Speaker 2: secret society to look at overturning the government's ban on
Speaker 2: nuclear energy. We'll come back to that in a minute.
Speaker 2: But Also tonight, the ob and easy labor government treats
Speaker 2: convicted felon Julian Assange.
Speaker 1: Like a hero.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a far cry from Julia Gillard's tough stance
Speaker 2: when he first dumped those classified documents fourteen years ago.
Speaker 7: I absolutely condemn the placement of this information on the
Speaker 7: WikiLeaks website. It's a grossly irresponsible thing to do.
Speaker 2: Also on the show Tonight, Disunity consumes Labor Albanesi's prophetic
Speaker 2: response to Fatima payment crossing the floor and Donald Trump's
Speaker 2: wild demand to Joe Biden ahead of tomorrow's presidential debate.
Speaker 2: But now let's bring in Tonight's panel Perth Lord Mayor
Speaker 2: Basil'samplus and The Australian's National Affairs editor Joe Kelly.
Speaker 1: Welcome to you both, Basil.
Speaker 2: This is quite a big revelation that Grant King, the
Speaker 2: chair of the Climate Change Authority, who Chris Bowen has
Speaker 2: just asked a year before his term was up, with
Speaker 2: Matt Keane, and it turns out that their views weren't
Speaker 2: quite aligned.
Speaker 1: That Grant King had.
Speaker 2: Advocated for nuclear he called it, in his words, important
Speaker 2: and even said the government's ban on it should be overturned.
Speaker 1: What do you think.
Speaker 8: Fancy getting somebody who is not politically aligned in an
Speaker 8: important position like this, and then that person not necessarily
Speaker 8: agreeing with the ideology or thoughts of the government of
Speaker 8: the day, and then their contracts suddenly ending a year earlier.
Speaker 8: I love that term he used, energy agnostic. I would
Speaker 8: have thought that's exactly what you want in somebody in
Speaker 8: that sort of position, somebody who doesn't have a predisposed
Speaker 8: view towards one form or another, one form of energy
Speaker 8: and any of the climate debate and can assess it
Speaker 8: as it was. That's what we had in Chairman King.
Speaker 8: But now he's gone, and I think that departure is
Speaker 8: revealing less about him and more about the government who
Speaker 8: have been there as he's gone a year early.
Speaker 2: Joe, your colleague Dennis Shanahan wrote about this, and it
Speaker 2: seems that Grant King did have quite a sensible position
Speaker 2: that nuclear energy should be part of the mix that
Speaker 2: is energy agnostic, as Bazil just spoke about. But do
Speaker 2: you think, Joe, that Bowen's energy response is looking increasingly irrational,
Speaker 2: but particularly he's just outright opposition to nuclear when he
Speaker 2: can't put.
Speaker 1: A reason on the table apart from the cost of it.
Speaker 9: Sherry, I think it's pretty hard to tell at this
Speaker 9: stage how the nuclear debate will unfold. This will be
Speaker 9: a very long debate. I think Peter Dutton has engaged
Speaker 9: though in crash through or crash politics. This is very big, bold, audacious, brash.
Speaker 9: I think there are political risks for the Coalition in
Speaker 9: putting out this plan. I think the most significant risk
Speaker 9: is that they've put out a plan they'll never be
Speaker 9: able to legislate or get through a hostile Senate if
Speaker 9: they do win government. There's no bipartisan support. There is
Speaker 9: that prohibition which Grant King mentioned. Perhaps Peter Dutton thinks
Speaker 9: that because his plan is so big and bold that
Speaker 9: if he does win majority government, he can shame Labor
Speaker 9: into accepting his electoral mandate. But I don't think there's
Speaker 9: any guarantee of that. Remember that Labour went to the
Speaker 9: election in two thousand promising to roll back the GST,
Speaker 9: so I think it is high stakes. But the other
Speaker 9: point is this doesn't happen for a long time. I
Speaker 9: don't think nuclear is going to turn many votes at
Speaker 9: the next election. People are going to be more concerned
Speaker 9: about what's happening now to bring down power prices, and
Speaker 9: I think that's where the Coalition needs to fill in
Speaker 9: the gaps.
Speaker 2: But isn't that what Peter Dutton's doing here. He's trying
Speaker 2: to link energy to the cost of living. He's trying
Speaker 2: to say that Labour's plan on renewable energy is what's
Speaker 2: pushing up power prices, Basil. Don't you get the sense
Speaker 2: that that is part of Dutton's strategy when he wants
Speaker 2: to keep speaking about nuclear because he is linking those
Speaker 2: two issues energy and cost of living, no.
Speaker 8: Doubt about that whatsoever. But also even more simplistic than that,
Speaker 8: he is providing an absolute contrast between his leadership style
Speaker 8: and the leadership style of the Prime Minister. One of conviction,
Speaker 8: one of you know what you get if you vote
Speaker 8: for me. You're not certain what you're going to get
Speaker 8: if you continue to support the Prime Minister. And so
Speaker 8: I think what he's trying to do in addition to
Speaker 8: that point Sherry is create an impression with people. If
Speaker 8: the big issues come up, if inflation continues to rise,
Speaker 8: if interest rates continue to go up, which one of
Speaker 8: the two of us seems likely to take decisive action
Speaker 8: on whatever the topic of the day is. And that's
Speaker 8: I think what he's really able to, or has been
Speaker 8: able to so far, provide that distinction between his leadership
Speaker 8: style and the Prime Minister's leadership style.
Speaker 2: And it does look like cost of living is going
Speaker 2: to continue to be a major issue for the rest
Speaker 2: of this year. I mean the inflation data that we've
Speaker 2: seen just this week, Joe, inflation has risen to four percent,
Speaker 2: where now you've got economists talking about one or potentially
Speaker 2: even two rate rises this year.
Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't so long ago.
Speaker 2: It was the start of this year Labor was anticipating
Speaker 2: there'd be an interest rate.
Speaker 1: Cut at the end of this year.
Speaker 2: So do you think the political debate Joe Kelly is
Speaker 2: going to start to center on whether it's the labor
Speaker 2: budget that's doing this because this is where Peter Dutton
Speaker 2: tried to take it in question time today.
Speaker 10: Oh, core inflation, the Reserve Banks preferred measure is at
Speaker 10: four point four percent, the highest level this year. Minister,
Speaker 10: Why do Australians have to live in fear of yet
Speaker 10: another rate rise under this hopeless government?
Speaker 11: The government has to do its bit and we've got
Speaker 11: a government here who has been reckless in three failed budgets.
Speaker 11: It hasn't done what needed to be done. We've got
Speaker 11: sixteen percent growth in spending in the next two years
Speaker 11: in this budget, driving the budget off a cliff. It's
Speaker 11: a big spending but.
Speaker 2: Sorry about that, Joe Kelly. So clearly that is the
Speaker 2: coalition's argument. They're saying that it's the budget that is
Speaker 2: to blame for the rise in inflation. Do you think
Speaker 2: that has credibility?
Speaker 9: Well, it's not just me who thinks that argument has credibility, Sharry.
Speaker 9: Last week the Reserve Bank, the Reserve Bank Board released
Speaker 9: its statement. It contained a new and I think very
Speaker 9: revealing line saying that it was concerned about the final
Speaker 9: budget outcomes. So this is the federal and state government
Speaker 9: budget decisions contributing to expansionary settings which will make the
Speaker 9: reserve banks jobs harder over time. So I think that
Speaker 9: there is you know, a number of people who are
Speaker 9: very concerned about this. Just recently it was Warren Hogan
Speaker 9: sort of out on his own saying that he was
Speaker 9: predicting a rate hike in coming months. But he's now
Speaker 9: been joined by others financial markets sort of about you know,
Speaker 9: fifty to fifty that there will be a rate hike. Now,
Speaker 9: if that happens, I think that is a political catastrophe
Speaker 9: for labor. It will be used mercilessly by Peter Dutton
Speaker 9: and Angus Taylor to attack their budget as being inappropriate
Speaker 9: for the time. And I think there'll be a lot
Speaker 9: to those arguments, and this is where the election will be.
Speaker 9: I think cherry this cost of living issue absolutely.
Speaker 1: Now let's have a look at Juliana signs.
Speaker 2: It's been twenty four hours that since he's arrived in Australia.
Speaker 1: We covered it here last night.
Speaker 2: Already eyes are now on the US and there's now
Speaker 2: calls from some of his supporters, some massage activists, pressure
Speaker 2: that they're putting now on the US to pardon a
Speaker 2: sanch And this is a call that his own lawyer,
Speaker 2: Australian barrister Jennifer Robinson reiterated today.
Speaker 12: Of course, the word pardon has been discussed over the
Speaker 12: last number of years. It is something that I think
Speaker 12: press freedom groups are talking about already because of the
Speaker 12: precedent that was set that it would be the right
Speaker 12: thing to do to give him a pardon, given the
Speaker 12: free speech implications of what just happened and the chilling
Speaker 12: effect of that prosecution.
Speaker 1: What we're interested in is not.
Speaker 12: Just a pardon for Julian, but in changing the law
Speaker 12: to make sure that no other journalists can be prosecuted
Speaker 12: in this way under the Espionage Act.
Speaker 1: Basil. What do you think about this?
Speaker 2: I mean, as far as I'm concerned, he's a convicted
Speaker 2: criminal who put lives at risk. He's not a journalist.
Speaker 2: He didn't go through this carefully. It was a document dump.
Speaker 1: What do you reckon?
Speaker 8: And he played guilty. Let's not forget that. I mean,
Speaker 8: he is free and back in Australia today, and most
Speaker 8: people would say fourteen years is long enough. We're pleased
Speaker 8: that this saga is over and pleased that an Australian
Speaker 8: is back on Australian soil after that ordeal. But much
Speaker 8: of that ordeal he put himself through by not facing
Speaker 8: the court or extradition, as were the requests upon him
Speaker 8: when a hit in the Ecuadorian embassy, and then obviously
Speaker 8: did jail time in the UK. He pled guilty to
Speaker 8: one case of obtaining and disclosing national defense documents and secrets.
Speaker 8: He pled guilty. So why do you get a pardon
Speaker 8: if you are guilty?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 2: Well, exactly very good point, Joe. What do you think
Speaker 2: of the Albanezi government's response to this. We've seen both
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister and Penny Wong refusing to comment on
Speaker 2: his actual crime. They just want to move past it
Speaker 2: and instead take credit for the fact he's back in Australia.
Speaker 9: Look Sherry, I was really struck the contrast in sort
Speaker 9: of the political optics now the comments from Anthony Alberanisi
Speaker 9: and the comments from Julia Gillard which you played before.
Speaker 9: I think one of the key issues is what Julian
Speaker 9: Assange does next. I was reading that he said that
Speaker 9: he thought that there was a contradiction between the Espionage
Speaker 9: Act and the First Amendment upholding free speech, freedom of
Speaker 9: the media and so on, which I don't think is
Speaker 9: particularly good sign. I think the question is, you know,
Speaker 9: is he going to return to form? And I think
Speaker 9: one of the risks is, given a sense of triumphalism
Speaker 9: from supporters and the rhetoric from the government, he may
Speaker 9: feel encouraged to do that.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 9: I think the government really has to get the balance
Speaker 9: right here, and certainly they would respond very forcefully against
Speaker 9: the dumping of hundreds of thousands of top secret documents
Speaker 9: of an Australian flavor. So I think the government has
Speaker 9: to get the balance right in relation to this, and
Speaker 9: I don't think it hats Yeah, it.
Speaker 1: Seems like Albani.
Speaker 8: He's loved, No, he's loved and loathed in almost in
Speaker 8: almost equal measure. Lots of people despise what he did,
Speaker 8: lots of people supported him.
Speaker 1: What he should do is.
Speaker 8: Go on the speaking circuit, put away wiki leaks forever
Speaker 8: and go and earn some very substantial money and enjoy
Speaker 8: his life. After fourteen years of really self imposed exile
Speaker 8: and incarceration, he should leave that life behind him, move
Speaker 8: forward with his life and let's be done with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if only that was the case. In fact, I
Speaker 2: think we're going to see more of him than appen.
Speaker 2: I had Jeffrey robertson on the show last night and
Speaker 2: he says that Julia Sange is looking at an autobiography,
Speaker 2: So there's going to be a lot of Assange to come, unfortunately.
Speaker 2: Basil Zemplis, Joe Kelly, thank you both for your time.
Speaker 2: Now coming up, I'm going to show you those comments
Speaker 2: what Julia Gillard had to say in full when Assange
Speaker 2: first released his classified documents, plus Dave Sharma will let
Speaker 2: loose on Alberanzi's week leadership on this matter. Plus the
Speaker 2: stage is set for the first US presidential debate.
Speaker 1: We'll look at all of that coming up on the
Speaker 1: show Welcome Back.
Speaker 2: Well, what would Julia Gillard and Hillary Clinton think of
Speaker 2: the way Alberanizi has reacted to Julian Assange this week.
Speaker 2: As you know, Julian Assange last night returned to Australia
Speaker 2: a free man after pleading guilty to espionage. He's now
Speaker 2: a convicted criminal, yet he traveled by private plane with
Speaker 2: our top us and UK diplomats Steven Smith and Kevin
Speaker 2: Rudd personally escorting him. Anthony Alberizi boasted that he was
Speaker 2: the first person Assange spoke to back on Home Soil,
Speaker 2: and the Prime Minister even posted a photograph of their
Speaker 2: call on social media and repeatedly took full it for
Speaker 2: his release. Labor, the Greens and the Teals have also
Speaker 2: been singing his praises. A hero, they say, a truth teller.
Speaker 1: Have a look.
Speaker 4: At the end of the day, Julian Ostange is a
Speaker 4: Walkley Award winning Australian journalist who did his job.
Speaker 5: Julian Assange was a political prisoner and his freedom took
Speaker 5: a political solution.
Speaker 8: Journalism is not a crime.
Speaker 7: Telling the truth should never be a crime.
Speaker 1: Well, this is.
Speaker 2: A far cry from how Julia Gillard reacted as Prime
Speaker 2: Minister when Assange first started releasing classified documents.
Speaker 7: I absolutely condemn the placement of this information on the
Speaker 7: wikileiks website. It's a grossly irresponsible thing to do and
Speaker 7: an illegal thing to do.
Speaker 12: The AFP is investigating whether any Australian laws have been broken.
Speaker 7: I can respect whistleblowing if your motivation is to right
Speaker 7: wrong motivation. His motivation, as stated, is a sort of
Speaker 7: anarchic here. It all is just have it, and I
Speaker 7: don't have a great deal of respect for that.
Speaker 2: She was unequivocal because he is an anti Western anarchist.
Speaker 2: It is convenient for Albin EASi to forget now that
Speaker 2: Assange is a convicted felon and that he was also
Speaker 2: accused of rape, and he never faced up to those allegations.
Speaker 2: Assange was also accused of endangering the lives of servicemen
Speaker 2: and women by failing to redact any information from his
Speaker 2: document dump.
Speaker 1: He compromised the.
Speaker 2: National security of the Five Eyes Security Alliance.
Speaker 1: Yet Albin Ezi doesn't mention this.
Speaker 2: So what signal does this send to others who may
Speaker 2: want to leak classified national security information that could benefit
Speaker 2: our enemies and put the lives of our undercover operatives
Speaker 2: on the line. But it's also curious that the labor
Speaker 2: left celebrate Assinge despite the fact he was accused of
Speaker 2: colluding with Russia by releasing Hillary Clinton's emails in yet
Speaker 2: another major document dump, and Hillary herself called Assange a
Speaker 2: tool of Russian intelligence.
Speaker 10: I think Cassange has become a kind of neolistic opportunist
Speaker 10: who does the bidding of a dictator.
Speaker 13: I mean, he's a.
Speaker 1: Tool of Russian intelligence.
Speaker 12: And if he's such a martyr of free speech, why
Speaker 12: doesn't WikiLeaks ever publish anything coming out of Russia.
Speaker 2: There's so much information about Assange, so much, too much
Speaker 2: that I have time for now. Yet, as Chris Kenny
Speaker 2: said the other day, Assange has now become a hero
Speaker 2: of the woke left and the loopy right. Or to
Speaker 2: discuss this, let's bring in now liberal senator and former
Speaker 2: ambassador to Israel and Dave Sharma Day of Welcome to
Speaker 2: the program. Look, what do you make of Labour's response
Speaker 2: to the Prime Minister's response to Julia Sange's return.
Speaker 14: Frankly, Shari, I've been appalled by it. This is not
Speaker 14: someone for whom we should be rolling out the red
Speaker 14: carpet and scattering rose pedals and sending our most senior
Speaker 14: diplomats in the United States and the United Kingdom as
Speaker 14: personal escorts to a company him back to Australia. Yes,
Speaker 14: we owe a duty to him as an Australian. Yes
Speaker 14: he's been through a criminal justice proceeding. But the idea
Speaker 14: that he should be lauded as some sort of returning
Speaker 14: hero by the governor of the day is odious and sickening,
Speaker 14: and it sends a terrible message about how we treat
Speaker 14: the gravity of the crime of which he was convicted
Speaker 14: and some of the charges that were leveled against him,
Speaker 14: including those of sexual assault in Sweden that you referred
Speaker 14: to in your opening remarks.
Speaker 2: Look, Assange wasn't wrongfully detained like cheng Lei or Kylie Morgil,
Speaker 2: but this is a very different category. He chose for
Speaker 2: years to avoid countries that do have fair judicial systems
Speaker 2: or extradition treaties.
Speaker 14: Well, absolutely, and yeah, I mean you'll remember that the
Speaker 14: reason he took refuge or sanctuary in the Ecuador in
Speaker 14: embassy in London was to avoid being extradited to Sweden
Speaker 14: to face sexual assault charges. So the seven years he
Speaker 14: spent in the Ecuador in embassy in London was about
Speaker 14: avoiding facing sexual assault charges in Sweden, and then the
Speaker 14: subsequent years he spent has been about avoid facing the
Speaker 14: consequences of his actions irresponsibly dumping classified information on the
Speaker 14: open web in a way that compromise not only the
Speaker 14: national security of Western nations, but a number of well
Speaker 14: meaning individuals who were acting as supporters of Western countries
Speaker 14: in countries where they would face danger from their details
Speaker 14: being reveled. And this is highly response irresponsible acts to
Speaker 14: have done. As Julia Gillard pointed out at the time,
Speaker 14: the idea that this sort of action should be celebrated
Speaker 14: or lauded is I mean, it shows a government that's
Speaker 14: completely lost its own sense of moral compass and lost
Speaker 14: sight of what is the national interest here of which
Speaker 14: they are meant to be the foremost guardians.
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 2: Juliana Sange's lawyers keep saying that no one was harmed
Speaker 2: as a result of his document dump, that the US
Speaker 2: government hasn't been able to produce or name anyone who
Speaker 2: was put in harm's way.
Speaker 1: What's your response to.
Speaker 14: This, Well, firstly, I'd say that this matter never went
Speaker 14: to trial, and I think those are the sorts of
Speaker 14: details that would only be revealed at trial. But beyond that,
Speaker 14: I mean, even if you accept that assertion, what they
Speaker 14: have done is expose methods, systems, operating procedures which compromise
Speaker 14: the effectiveness and the capability of Western national security services
Speaker 14: and intelligence services. So it has undoubtedly undermined our national security.
Speaker 14: I would be surprised if individual human sources were not
Speaker 14: compromised by the dumping of that information on the web
Speaker 14: as well. I don't think you can there's any way
Speaker 14: you can spin this as being some sort of harmless,
Speaker 14: victim free act of you know, noble journalism. I think
Speaker 14: it's the complete antithesis of that.
Speaker 2: What about this argument that a signed was used by Russia,
Speaker 2: as Hillary Clinton says, as a proper gander tour. We
Speaker 2: know he was given a television show on Russian state
Speaker 2: TV for a time. He interviewed a Hesbala terrorist. He
Speaker 2: called him a freedom fighter, So he does seem to
Speaker 2: be this anti Western figure we values that aren't shared
Speaker 2: by most Australians.
Speaker 14: I think that's exactly right. I mean, as Hillary Clinton
Speaker 14: pointed out, I mean, he hasn't been revealing, you know,
Speaker 14: the private wealth of you know, the senior members of
Speaker 14: the politbureau standing committee in China, for instance. He hasn't
Speaker 14: been revealing, you know, whereas Pruden stashed his millions, and
Speaker 14: the nepotism that is unfolding in Russia today. None of
Speaker 14: those things that are the targets of his leaks. It's
Speaker 14: all focused towards the West. He was used by Russia today,
Speaker 14: he hosted a show on Russia Today, and the leaks
Speaker 14: that he was allegedly involved in from Hillary Clinton the
Speaker 14: Democratic National Committee's Private Service in twenty sixteen undoubtedly did
Speaker 14: damage to her presidential campaign. I mean, this is someone
Speaker 14: who shouldn't normally be someone who's held up by the
Speaker 14: progressive left. But we're in this perverse sort of moral
Speaker 14: universe where he's become a cause celebrity of the progressive
Speaker 14: circles in Australia and elsewhere in the world. And I
Speaker 14: just think it's so upside down. I can't really make
Speaker 14: sense of it.
Speaker 2: It's kind of quite similar to how Albanezi has reacted
Speaker 2: since the harmas Terra attacks on Israel. And you saw
Speaker 2: Julia Gillard's comments in Josh Breidenberg's documentary, and also how
Speaker 2: strong she was as a supporter of Israel when she
Speaker 2: was Prime Minister, and she's increasingly looking more centrist, you know,
Speaker 2: showing leadership. She shows Albanisi up quite frankly for being
Speaker 2: weak and of the radical left.
Speaker 14: I think that's right, and I think if you need
Speaker 14: to figure out what this government's going to do on something,
Speaker 14: you need to look at what the Greens are calling for,
Speaker 14: and you find that the government is just a few
Speaker 14: steps behind them. So, you know, restore funding to UNRA,
Speaker 14: the Greens call for that. A few weeks later the
Speaker 14: government does it call for Julian Losandra's release. Well, the
Speaker 14: labor government's there, a few steps behind them, you know,
Speaker 14: criticize Israel, labor government's there, recognize the state of Palestine.
Speaker 14: Labor government is there or getting there. I think this
Speaker 14: is entirely their prison. I mean, I think they're focused
Speaker 14: only on electoral politics and domestic politics. And Albanisi, being
Speaker 14: a creature as he is from the inner West of Sydney,
Speaker 14: has always been focused on the Greens as his main
Speaker 14: political threat, and he's brought that view to the national
Speaker 14: stage and the national interest, which is what he is
Speaker 14: paid to look after. What his job is, seems to
Speaker 14: be a second order issue to him compared to how
Speaker 14: does he politically position himself in the Labor Party to
Speaker 14: save off the threat from the left. I mean, it's
Speaker 14: no way to run the nation.
Speaker 2: No, and he does seem to have those inner West
Speaker 2: left leaning sensibilities at heart. Dave Sharma, thank you very
Speaker 2: much for joining me tonight. Such a good interview. Now
Speaker 2: it's all hands on deck for Joe Biden's team before
Speaker 2: the presidential debate, which is tomorrow at eleven am our time.
Speaker 2: The White House has confirmed that sixteen eights have been
Speaker 2: in a lock up with Joe Biden to prepare at
Speaker 2: Camp David. So, the main aim for this debate for
Speaker 2: Joe Biden, who's eighty one, will be to get through
Speaker 2: an hour and a half without mixing up world leaders
Speaker 2: forgetting his train of thought freezing.
Speaker 1: Up or falling over well.
Speaker 2: So look ahead to the debate from a US Studies Center,
Speaker 2: fellow Stephen loosely joins me. Now, Stephen, thank you very
Speaker 2: much for your time. So do you think this would
Speaker 2: be a success for Joe Biden if he just gets
Speaker 2: through the hour and a half of the debate without
Speaker 2: any mishaps.
Speaker 15: Well. One of the fascinating developments in the weeks leading
Speaker 15: up to this Atlanta debate debates have been the fact
Speaker 15: that the Trump team spent a lot of time trashing
Speaker 15: the president's debating capabilities. At one stage, Donald Trump said
Speaker 15: he was the worst debate he'd ever faced. That actually
Speaker 15: had as a consequence the setting of the bar so
Speaker 15: low for President Biden in the debate that the Republicans
Speaker 15: have moved away from that and have started to talk
Speaker 15: about the president's capacities at the lecton. I think this
Speaker 15: is an important waystation in the presidential election campaign, Charry,
Speaker 15: and I think what the Democrats are looking at the
Speaker 15: reasons they ask for this debate to be held so
Speaker 15: early is to approach on the basis of Joe Biden
Speaker 15: performing as well as he did in the State of
Speaker 15: the Union, which was not anticipated, but it was very fiery,
Speaker 15: very lively, and he had the added benefit of being
Speaker 15: abused in the bluechers by Marjorie Tayler Green. So I
Speaker 15: think what the Democrats are looking for is not just
Speaker 15: to have the president on his feet in ninety minutes,
Speaker 15: but to have the president win this debate out.
Speaker 2: Do you think Biden will definitely be the Democratic candidate
Speaker 2: who'll face off against Trump or do you think there's
Speaker 2: any possibility that the Democratic Party might still have reservations
Speaker 2: about whether they stick with Biden.
Speaker 15: US politics has taught me over the generations that you
Speaker 15: can never rule out any eventuality, and we've had extraordinary
Speaker 15: circumstances like Lyndon Johnson announcing in marnineteen sixty eight as
Speaker 15: the President of the US that he would not be
Speaker 15: seeking his party's nomination again. He was not running for
Speaker 15: president again. That came as a complete bolt from the blue.
Speaker 15: At the moment, Joe Biden is the Democratic nominee, and
Speaker 15: it's likely to be endorsed by the convention in Chicago.
Speaker 15: If we had unforeseen circumstances that could change. On the
Speaker 15: Republican side, I have no doubt that Donald Trump will
Speaker 15: go forward as the presumptive nominee, and there's much interest
Speaker 15: in who the vice presidential nominee will be for the Republicans,
Speaker 15: and this is quite fascinating in anticipation that he might
Speaker 15: not win the debate. Donald Trump has announced he's already
Speaker 15: picked his vice presidential running mate, and he'll announce it
Speaker 15: in the not to distant future. And that's designed to
Speaker 15: shift the emphasis away from the debate in the event
Speaker 15: that it's a disapporning performance for Trump.
Speaker 16: It's quite clever.
Speaker 15: Shows that Donald Trump it's not necessarily as confident as
Speaker 15: he might appear.
Speaker 2: We saw this week that his spokesperson, he spokeswoman was
Speaker 2: kicked off CNN when she started to criticize Jake Tapper,
Speaker 2: who will actually be moderating the debate.
Speaker 1: Have a look at that moment.
Speaker 13: First of all, it's so it takes someone five minutes
Speaker 13: to google Jake Tapper Donald Trump to see that Jake
Speaker 13: Tapper has steade filter.
Speaker 1: Ma'am, I'm going to stop.
Speaker 2: If you'm stating to attack my colleagues, I would like
Speaker 2: to talk about you body and Donald Trump who you
Speaker 2: work for.
Speaker 1: If you are here week.
Speaker 5: On his behalf and I will have this conversation.
Speaker 13: I am stating facts that your colleagues have stated in
Speaker 13: the past.
Speaker 1: Now I'm sorry, We're going to come back to Caroline.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much from your time.
Speaker 5: You are welcome to come back at any point. She
Speaker 5: is welcome to come back and speak about Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: Not much a freedom of speech over there at NAN.
Speaker 2: But Stephen, do you expect that it will be a
Speaker 2: fair debate with the moderators Jake Tapper and Dana Bash.
Speaker 15: By and large, Yes, And I think the new rules
Speaker 15: with the microphones going silent when one candidate has the
Speaker 15: flaw and the other candidate is to listen, will work.
Speaker 15: So we won't have the situation as we had with
Speaker 15: Mike Wallace on a previous debate where Donald Trump endeavors
Speaker 15: to talk right over the top of Joe Biden, which
Speaker 15: incidentally did Trump enormous damage in the American heartlund and
Speaker 15: the Republican Party knows that he may not be able
Speaker 15: to restrain himself. As one comment made the other day,
Speaker 15: I noticed, Joe Biden will seek to control the debate.
Speaker 15: Donald Trump will seek to control himself. That's not a
Speaker 15: bit way to approach matters. But look what happened on CNN.
Speaker 15: It's just indicative of the polarization in American politics.
Speaker 16: Absolutely divide.
Speaker 15: Yeah, effort for bridge and very little effort to have
Speaker 15: a civilized discourse.
Speaker 2: No, indeed, Stephen Lucy Thank you very much for your
Speaker 2: insights this evening. Now coming up the chilling footage of
Speaker 2: the moment a nineteen year old armed with knives walked
Speaker 2: into a labor politician's office. This story we broke exclusively
Speaker 2: on the show tonight last night, and now we'll give
Speaker 2: you more details that coming up after the break.
Speaker 1: Welcome back.
Speaker 16: Well.
Speaker 2: More details have now emerged about the story I broke
Speaker 2: exclusively here last night, the teenager who allegedly entered a
Speaker 2: new South Wales labor and PA's office armed with knives
Speaker 2: and a warning.
Speaker 1: Some of this is quite distressing.
Speaker 2: There's now disturbing go pro footage the nineteen year old
Speaker 2: allegedly live streamed during the ordeal, and police say it
Speaker 2: shows him wearing a helmet, ballistic vest, a knife and
Speaker 2: a face mask. He's been identified by police as James
Speaker 2: Patton and has since been charged with terror offenses and
Speaker 2: intending to kill Newcastle Labor and p Tim Krackenthorpe. As
Speaker 2: I said on air last night, I received the two
Speaker 2: hundred page manifesto yesterday. It was allegedly sent to me
Speaker 2: by Patten. It had the subject heading for you. It
Speaker 2: was truly terrifying, to say the least, I was very
Speaker 2: alarmed and we.
Speaker 1: Notified police immediately.
Speaker 2: In it, police will allege that he spoke about his
Speaker 2: desire for a mass killing. It had anti submitted content
Speaker 2: in the manifesto. He discussed beheadings and he claimed he
Speaker 2: was inspired by the terrorist Brenton Tarrant who murdered fifty
Speaker 2: one people. Now, it went for two hundred pages. There
Speaker 2: was a lot of alarming content in it, as you
Speaker 2: can imagine, it was really quite something to receive. In it,
Speaker 2: he also spoke about his plot to allegedly kill a
Speaker 2: labor politician. Now, I was enormously relieved to hear in
Speaker 2: the afternoon that this teenager had been arrested, and we
Speaker 2: should all be so grateful that police acted to move
Speaker 2: quickly in this Let's bring it now Tonight's panel, Sky
Speaker 2: News commentator Jason Morrison and former Labor and Graham Richardson.
Speaker 1: Welcome to you both. Jason.
Speaker 2: This sort of manifesto and the fact that the teenager
Speaker 2: was arrested outside of Labor and Peace office, he had knives,
Speaker 2: he was reading aloud his manifesto. Look, it just adds
Speaker 2: to this volatile climate that we're all in at the
Speaker 2: moment and.
Speaker 17: It's a reminder of that old saying that the police
Speaker 17: have with respect to matters terrorism, that you know, the
Speaker 17: terrorists only got to get it right at once. The
Speaker 17: police have got to get it right every time. And
Speaker 17: the information that has come out and is available in
Speaker 17: some ports is that the police got very good information
Speaker 17: from the family who were very concerned and very worried,
Speaker 17: and they acted very swiftly. And good on you and
Speaker 17: your staff for getting that information to them as well,
Speaker 17: because that all helps and allows them to react very promptly.
Speaker 17: They used a little bit of a policing technology methodology
Speaker 17: to be able to pinpoint his location and they jumped
Speaker 17: on him fast and they got him. Can I say
Speaker 17: this is not a criticism of you, Sky News or
Speaker 17: any other news media, but the release of that video
Speaker 17: stuff that you've just been able to show it was
Speaker 17: all in all the news servicess all over the inter
Speaker 17: I don't get the benefit in the release of that.
Speaker 17: I just don't. I know why it's there, and it's
Speaker 17: an exhibit and it will be part of them, but
Speaker 17: I just don't see the upside of that being shown
Speaker 17: because it does show, frankly, how fragile things are. This
Speaker 17: guy has been described as having level two autism. He
Speaker 17: has no criminal history, and the allegations that he face
Speaker 17: are grave. I just worry about that being out and
Speaker 17: about there. I mean, we can handle the truth, but
Speaker 17: sometimes there are some people that are absolutely nuts and
Speaker 17: they don't need to see how damn easy sometimes.
Speaker 1: It can be well.
Speaker 2: I think there can be a debate about what we
Speaker 2: should and shouldn't publish. In terms from my perspective, I
Speaker 2: didn't publish any of the manifesto. I didn't broadcast it
Speaker 2: last night. It's lengthy, there's a lot of terrifying detail
Speaker 2: in it. I didn't broadcast that. Some of that was
Speaker 2: in the papers today and so and the journalists got
Speaker 2: it from other sources, not from me. But we've been
Speaker 2: very careful with what we've published. But in the manifesto
Speaker 2: he speaks about discussing a lot of these plans on
Speaker 2: chat rooms. So look, Rich, are you hoping that police
Speaker 2: are aware? Counter terrorism police and our AZIO and other
Speaker 2: intelligence agencies are aware of the chat rooms are able
Speaker 2: to access them? Because what he speaks about was being
Speaker 2: discussed in the chat rooms is also very alarming.
Speaker 18: Oh, it's terrifying, and I'm glad that the police are
Speaker 18: aware of these chat rooms. I think that they're in
Speaker 18: front of the aim on this and that's just as
Speaker 18: well for all of us, because that provides a safety
Speaker 18: net that we really need. I think that's the one
Speaker 18: thing this guy proves is how easy it is to
Speaker 18: be a terrorist. And that's what's scary about it to me.
Speaker 2: Now, let's have a look at this issue at the
Speaker 2: University of Sydney and the Vice Chancellor Mark Scott's handling
Speaker 2: of anti Semitism on campus. As you know, Mark Scott
Speaker 2: has capitulated to the groups that were running the encampment.
Speaker 2: He's done a deal with them where they can review
Speaker 2: some of the research collaborations that the University of Sydney has.
Speaker 2: This would amount to an Israel boycott. Now, the Jewish
Speaker 2: groups today have come out and said that they have
Speaker 2: lost confidence in the capacity of the University of Sydney
Speaker 2: to provide for the physical, cultural and psychosocial safety of
Speaker 2: Jewish students and staff members. Jason, Look, this is really
Speaker 2: concerning leadership from Mark Scott.
Speaker 17: Extraordinarily, it's extraordinary. I don't get the Mark Scott phenomena.
Speaker 17: I have not got how someone continues to fall short
Speaker 17: and so many roles and obligations and just keeps rising.
Speaker 17: He has an extraordinary job at this university and he
Speaker 17: has put Australia. I think he's put Australia's national security
Speaker 17: at risk by allowing people who clearly have a deep
Speaker 17: hatred of a certain corner of the community to have
Speaker 17: some kind of oversight on what the university is doing
Speaker 17: in delicate research projects.
Speaker 16: This is bad.
Speaker 17: And look, you got to hear me through the whole
Speaker 17: thing here. The old phrase about don't negotiate with terrorists.
Speaker 17: Now I'm not saying the people on the lawn were terrorists.
Speaker 17: We're not saying that. But I actually we're saying some
Speaker 17: of them might think that terrorists are doing a good
Speaker 17: thing over in the Middle East. But what I do
Speaker 17: worry about deeply in all of this is that what's
Speaker 17: the message here. They were breaking the rules, they were
Speaker 17: breaking the law. There are signs up flashing everywhere saying
Speaker 17: don't end are in closed landsy You get arrested at
Speaker 17: Sydney University and Scott does a deal with them to
Speaker 17: go away.
Speaker 16: And in the.
Speaker 17: Meantime, Jewish students walking around Sydney University campus are scared
Speaker 17: shitless because they're having absolute romper stomp a look protests
Speaker 17: going on with radical Islamists chanting ala Akhbar and things
Speaker 17: like that, which are frightening for them to see.
Speaker 16: I think there's something real wrong with it.
Speaker 2: You mentioned that they were chanting alo akba well at
Speaker 2: their press conference to announce this deal that they've done
Speaker 2: with Mark Scott. Have a look at the footage we'll
Speaker 2: show you now.
Speaker 5: A.
Speaker 1: Rich are they chanted that too?
Speaker 17: Mark Scott's negotiating with.
Speaker 16: That's who is negotiating.
Speaker 2: With exactly rich are they chanted that? More than twenty
Speaker 2: times in the one press conference. There was no Australian
Speaker 2: at them, or any Australian slogans at all. It was
Speaker 2: all ala wakba. You know, some of the members of
Speaker 2: this fringe group have been linked to his book to Rea,
Speaker 2: it's not a terror organization here, but it is in
Speaker 2: the United Kingdom and there are calls for it to
Speaker 2: be recognized as an extremist organization here as well.
Speaker 1: Rich O, where's Mark Scott? Where's your mate? Elbow? And
Speaker 1: all of this?
Speaker 18: Well, I think you know, there's a whole lot of
Speaker 18: a whole set of levels here where we've failed, and
Speaker 18: whether whether it's at administery, at the university or our
Speaker 18: political overlords. Just nothing is being done when you can
Speaker 18: see a danger. And that's that's terrifying to me. What
Speaker 18: we have to do when we see an ugly obvious
Speaker 18: danger like this is act and act quickly. You can't
Speaker 18: sit around and watch and say, well, well, well, let's
Speaker 18: hope we can get them when they try something. That's
Speaker 18: not much good saying oh, well they killed a couple
Speaker 18: of people, we got them. I'd much rather those couple
Speaker 18: of people never got killed.
Speaker 1: Rich.
Speaker 2: I also just want to ask you, during your time
Speaker 2: in Canberra, if someone had crossed the floor, there would
Speaker 2: have been consequences. What do you think of Albanesi's soft
Speaker 2: response to labor Senator Fatima Payman this week when she
Speaker 2: crossed the floor to support the Green's motion to recognize
Speaker 2: the Palestinian state.
Speaker 18: Yeah, I thought it was very weak. When the crunch comes,
Speaker 18: I think that caucus rules observed Labor will over time
Speaker 18: very well. And I don't understand why on some issues
Speaker 18: you can say, well look will Caucasus and everything else,
Speaker 18: but you can have your way on this one. That's nonsense.
Speaker 18: You're either caucus or you don't. And I think Elbow's
Speaker 18: made a mistake on this, and I hope he gets
Speaker 18: a chance to think about it again and make sure
Speaker 18: he doesn't allow it again, because once you start allowing
Speaker 18: this then and discipline starts to fall, then I think
Speaker 18: you're not going to be much of a party in
Speaker 18: the in our parliament.
Speaker 2: Although it seems like he said the precedent, now he's
Speaker 2: not going to be able to expel someone else for
Speaker 2: crossing the floor because he didn't expel Fadam a payment.
Speaker 2: Graeme richardson Jason Morrison. I'm sorry we're out of time,
Speaker 2: but good to see you both now. After the break,
Speaker 2: mortgage holders face an August potential rate rise after the
Speaker 2: inflation acceleration.
Speaker 1: This week we'll.
Speaker 2: Talk about just whether the Prime Minister does care about
Speaker 2: the cost of living in the economy or is it
Speaker 2: only celebration of Julian Assange.
Speaker 1: Welcome back.
Speaker 2: Well, while the Prime Minister is distracted with Julian Assange,
Speaker 2: economists are now predicting one or even two into straight
Speaker 2: rises this year after inflation went up. Let's bring in
Speaker 2: now Macro Business chief economist Leith found Nonslin to discuss. Leith,
Speaker 2: thank you very much, for your time. What do you
Speaker 2: think of the inflation rise this week.
Speaker 16: Yeah, look, it's obviously a very poor result and it
Speaker 16: shows that inflation remains sticky. Sharing it doesn't necessarily mean
Speaker 16: that interest rate's going to rise, although obviously the chances
Speaker 16: have increased massively. The RBA has got five weeks before
Speaker 16: the next monetary policy meeting, and between now and then
Speaker 16: it's going to receive two retail sales prints, the Dune
Speaker 16: labor market data, as well as the Q two quarterly
Speaker 16: inflation reports, so it'll have to weigh up that data
Speaker 16: before it makes a decision on rates in early August.
Speaker 16: But that said, the figures do show that the albany
Speaker 16: Is government is making the RBA's job so much harder
Speaker 16: through its mass immigration policy that's pushing rents through the moon,
Speaker 16: and also its failures on energy policy. Because energy inflation
Speaker 16: remains very sticky, it's another one of the key contributors
Speaker 16: to inflation.
Speaker 2: Well aside from immigrant policy which we speak about often,
Speaker 2: and inflation.
Speaker 1: In rents as well.
Speaker 2: The Opposition was arguing in Parliament today that Labour's budget
Speaker 2: is also putting pressure on inflation. What do you think
Speaker 2: is this a proposition that you agree.
Speaker 16: With yes and no. Obviously the subsidies for energy and
Speaker 16: rents and those sorts of things will reduce prices directly
Speaker 16: in those areas, but that obviously then puts more money
Speaker 16: in consumers pockets so they can then spend, which then
Speaker 16: has other impacts. The bigger problem with it is the
Speaker 16: budget does nothing to address the underlying causes of this inflation.
Speaker 16: So for example, you know that the rents, the energy crisis.
Speaker 16: We have extreme energy shocks in the East Coast here,
Speaker 16: which is pushing up an energy inflation. So look, look,
Speaker 16: you know there's a little bit of ins and out. Obviously,
Speaker 16: I don't think the coalition would want the federal government
Speaker 16: to abandon the Stage three tax cuts. They're obviously going
Speaker 16: to be inflationary as well. So look, I think the
Speaker 16: federal government needs to do a lot to help the
Speaker 16: RBA out on the policy front, so that is to
Speaker 16: cut immigration and also fix the energy market because we
Speaker 16: are paying extraordinary energy prices in Australia despite the fact
Speaker 16: that we are an energy superpower. We should have the
Speaker 16: cheapest energy costs in the world. I think those are
Speaker 16: the bigger issues.
Speaker 2: In terms of productivity. I mean, we've only got about
Speaker 2: ten seconds. But what should the government be doing very quickly?
Speaker 16: Pair back the The NIS is an absolute productivity drain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is going to be the biggest cos
Speaker 2: burden on the budget moving forward, no question. All right,
Speaker 2: Leith van Onldsen, thank you very much for your insights tonight.
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to be off for a few weeks.
Speaker 2: Danika de Georgia will be filling in, so don't miss
Speaker 2: the show. Keep watching at eight o'clock, but just a
Speaker 2: bit of an annual leave. So thank you very much
Speaker 2: for your company tonight. And right now he's poor Murray