WEBVTT - Sharri | 27 June 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:07.680 Good evening. 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.520 Well, first tonight I can reveal the outgoing Climate Change 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:16.079 Authority chair Grant King had spoken about a secret society 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:20.840 working to overturn the government's ban on nuclear energy with 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.640 views like this. Is it any surprise he was sensationally 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:26.080 axed by Chris Bowen. 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:28.560 This is a fascinating story. 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:32.080 It's been big news this week that Chris Bowen replaced 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.080 the chair of the Climate Change Authority with Matt Keene. 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:39.440 It turns out Bowen's views on energy weren't aligned with 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.680 the outgoing chair, Grant King. I'm going to show you 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.599 video footage right now where King speaks about a secret 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:48.640 society working. 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:49.880 On nuclear policy. 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.160 But not only has Chris Bowen replaced him four years 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:57.240 into his five year term, but the Climate Change Minister 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:02.520 also launched an inquiry examining his integrity and potential conflicts 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:06.840 of interest. It turns out, behind the scenes, Grant King 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:11.399 had been advocating for nuclear energy for years. Have a 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.119 look at this footage the first time it's aired, where 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:18.480 King says he was becoming increasingly frustrated by parts of 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:22.240 the energy debate. He says very clearly that there's no 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:26.440 good or bad energy and that nuclear should be part 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:27.479 of the mix. 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.800 There's still a great desire to define good fuels and 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:34.680 bad fuels, and that's not going to help us get there. 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.479 We need absolutely everything working for us, and that also 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.240 includes nuclear. So if we want to get into a debate, 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:43.880 it's important that we throw nuclear into the mix and 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:45.560 say astraight. He's going to have to come to grips 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:47.520 with that issue, and it's going to have to decide 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.960 whether or not it lifts that regulatory prohibition and allows 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:56.080 the innovation and the investment that's now happening, particularly in 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.440 small modular reactor technology to be applicable here in Australia. 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.880 So that's the outgoing chair of the Climate Change Authority, 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:07.919 who Chris Bowen has just replaced with Matt Kean Grant 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.760 King saying right there, as you saw in twenty twenty one, 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.000 just a year before the Albaneze government was elected, that 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.440 nuclear should be part of Australia's energy mix and that 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:24.000 nuclear energy is important. The chair works closely with Chris Bowen, 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.120 who has a very different view on nuclear, and so 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.800 does the senior team in the Albanese government. 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:34.040 It's not just certain nuclear is expensive to bill, it's 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.760 also that to make it work, it needs to force 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.559 out the cheapest form of energy, renewables. 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:44.919 We can continue with the transition to renewable energy, or 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:50.639 we can get distracted again by the nuclear fantasy proposed 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:52.160 by those opposite. 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.840 What they have is a plan to erect the future, 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.440 a plan to drive investment out that is needed to 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.640 provide energy security and the lower prices. 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.800 But that's not Grant King's view, and in fact he 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:11.720 said he was increasingly frustrated by parts of the energy debate. 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:14.679 So increasingly, and I must say the last month or 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.919 two I've become increasingly frustrated with the terms blue and green, 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.040 because blue and green imply there is a better way 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.359 of making carbon free hydrogen. For example, we've used the 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:29.200 term green hydrogen than there is blue hydrogen. Makes no difference. 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:30.880 At the end of the day, it's still a carbon hydrogen, 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:31.760 it's clean hydrogen. 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:35.800 But he went further in the speech, with Grant King 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.160 saying that the ban on nuclear in Australia should be 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:43.279 lifted and that a secret society was working on campaigning 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:44.680 the government over this. 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.280 That prohibition has to be lifted and there is a 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:51.320 secret society of people out there trying to figure out 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.440 what conversation they had with government to lift that prohibition. 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:57.760 And in comments that also would have been at odds 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:01.400 with Chris Bowen, Grant King advocated carbon storage. 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:06.040 Everything that reduces emissions is good. There's no good or 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:09.240 bad reductions of emissions, and there tends to be. And 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:13.200 the classic example here is gees sequestration. I mean, every 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.600 time that term is mentioned among some parts of the community, 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:17.679 it's and oh my god, event, how could we possibly 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:21.560 talk about that? It's neither good nor bad. If we're 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:25.120 storing carbon and storing carbon safely, that's as good as 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:28.160 reducing emissions in some other location. And you can't get 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.960 to net zero any other way than recognizing that that 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:32.040 duality exists. 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.159 Well, with views like this, is it any surprise that 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:40.159 Chris Bowen replaced Grant King with Matt Kean a year early. 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:44.440 Kean was conveniently on the same page as his new master. 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:47.760 In order to bring nuclear into the system, it would 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.800 take far too long and would be far too expensive 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.320 for New South Wales. Now, I didn't want to bankrupt 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.520 the state and I didn't want to put those huge 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:56.799 costs onto families. 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:02.039 Well, Chris Bowen is so radical that being energy agnostic, 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:06.000 as Grant King clearly is, is a crime. To Grant King, 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.159 it doesn't seem to matter which energy methods are used 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:13.240 as long as the emission's reduction targets are reached. But 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:18.920 labor has this illogical ideological opposition to nuclear. And then 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.279 there was also the complaint against Grant King by the 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.920 far left think tank the Australia Institute in May last year. 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:30.960 Instead of just dismissing the complaint as nonsensical, the Albertezer 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:35.040 government actually launched an inquiry into its own Climate Change 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:40.120 Authority chair. Now political veteran Dennis Shanahan had this brilliant 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.080 report in The Australian this week where he writes about 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:47.239 how Grant King was shockingly subject to an integrity probe. 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:51.000 He writes that in May last year, the Australia Institute 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:55.400 asked mister Bowen to investigate potential conflicts of interest at 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:59.159 the CCA, the Climate Change Authority, and particularly mister King. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.719 To Mister Bowen also said members of the Climate Change 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.240 Authority Board should not also be employed by companies or 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:11.720 organizations that could be affected by the CCA's recommendations. After 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:16.120 a departmental review mister Bowen told the Australia Institute aspects 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:20.080 of the regulations about potential conflicts of interest were not 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:25.800 in keeping with requirements and changes had been made. So 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:29.960 this is all what has unfolded behind closed doors, Chris 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:35.240 Bowen ordering a humiliating inquiry into his own Climate Change 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:39.800 Authority chair based on complaints from a radical left wing 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:44.040 think tank. Now we know the Climate Change Authority itself 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.840 is aiming for an emissions reduction target between sixty five 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.320 and seventy five percent by twenty thirty five. I've shown 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:55.640 you those documents and that's ambitious given the twenty thirty 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.360 target of forty two percent is unlikely to be met 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:05.119 to experts. But it seems Chair Grant King wasn't green enough. 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:09.320 Chris Bowen doesn't want energy agnostic. He doesn't want to 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:13.880 even consider the advice of his top experts. He's driven 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:20.640 purely by ideology. Now I'm going to come back to 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.040 that story in a moment with my panel. The revelation 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.680 that the Climate Change Authority Chair had advocated for a 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.840 secret society to look at overturning the government's ban on 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.040 nuclear energy. We'll come back to that in a minute. 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.720 But Also tonight, the ob and easy labor government treats 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.240 convicted felon Julian Assange. 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:38.640 Like a hero. 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.480 Well, it's a far cry from Julia Gillard's tough stance 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:46.800 when he first dumped those classified documents fourteen years ago. 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:51.680 I absolutely condemn the placement of this information on the 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.720 WikiLeaks website. It's a grossly irresponsible thing to do. 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:01.360 Also on the show Tonight, Disunity consumes Labor Albanesi's prophetic 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:05.400 response to Fatima payment crossing the floor and Donald Trump's 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.760 wild demand to Joe Biden ahead of tomorrow's presidential debate. 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.080 But now let's bring in Tonight's panel Perth Lord Mayor 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:16.800 Basil'samplus and The Australian's National Affairs editor Joe Kelly. 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.480 Welcome to you both, Basil. 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.600 This is quite a big revelation that Grant King, the 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.720 chair of the Climate Change Authority, who Chris Bowen has 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.000 just asked a year before his term was up, with 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.200 Matt Keane, and it turns out that their views weren't 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:34.160 quite aligned. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:35.640 That Grant King had. 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.479 Advocated for nuclear he called it, in his words, important 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.520 and even said the government's ban on it should be overturned. 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:42.440 What do you think. 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:47.200 Fancy getting somebody who is not politically aligned in an 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:51.800 important position like this, and then that person not necessarily 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:56.320 agreeing with the ideology or thoughts of the government of 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.960 the day, and then their contracts suddenly ending a year earlier. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.600 I love that term he used, energy agnostic. I would 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.079 have thought that's exactly what you want in somebody in 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:10.280 that sort of position, somebody who doesn't have a predisposed 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.960 view towards one form or another, one form of energy 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.600 and any of the climate debate and can assess it 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:18.960 as it was. That's what we had in Chairman King. 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.360 But now he's gone, and I think that departure is 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.600 revealing less about him and more about the government who 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:29.400 have been there as he's gone a year early. 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.640 Joe, your colleague Dennis Shanahan wrote about this, and it 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.400 seems that Grant King did have quite a sensible position 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.080 that nuclear energy should be part of the mix that 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.439 is energy agnostic, as Bazil just spoke about. But do 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:47.240 you think, Joe, that Bowen's energy response is looking increasingly irrational, 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:51.480 but particularly he's just outright opposition to nuclear when he 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:52.600 can't put. 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.520 A reason on the table apart from the cost of it. 0:09:57.600 --> 0:09:59.320 Sherry, I think it's pretty hard to tell at this 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.280 stage how the nuclear debate will unfold. This will be 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:07.000 a very long debate. I think Peter Dutton has engaged 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:13.040 though in crash through or crash politics. This is very big, bold, audacious, brash. 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:16.080 I think there are political risks for the Coalition in 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.680 putting out this plan. I think the most significant risk 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.400 is that they've put out a plan they'll never be 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:26.000 able to legislate or get through a hostile Senate if 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:30.280 they do win government. There's no bipartisan support. There is 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:34.440 that prohibition which Grant King mentioned. Perhaps Peter Dutton thinks 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:37.280 that because his plan is so big and bold that 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.240 if he does win majority government, he can shame Labor 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.240 into accepting his electoral mandate. But I don't think there's 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.560 any guarantee of that. Remember that Labour went to the 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:49.080 election in two thousand promising to roll back the GST, 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.839 so I think it is high stakes. But the other 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.280 point is this doesn't happen for a long time. I 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:56.280 don't think nuclear is going to turn many votes at 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.760 the next election. People are going to be more concerned 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.760 about what's happening now to bring down power prices, and 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.080 I think that's where the Coalition needs to fill in 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:04.560 the gaps. 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.720 But isn't that what Peter Dutton's doing here. He's trying 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.319 to link energy to the cost of living. He's trying 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.880 to say that Labour's plan on renewable energy is what's 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.640 pushing up power prices, Basil. Don't you get the sense 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.800 that that is part of Dutton's strategy when he wants 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:22.960 to keep speaking about nuclear because he is linking those 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:27.480 two issues energy and cost of living, no. 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.679 Doubt about that whatsoever. But also even more simplistic than that, 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:35.240 he is providing an absolute contrast between his leadership style 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.600 and the leadership style of the Prime Minister. One of conviction, 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.560 one of you know what you get if you vote 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:44.040 for me. You're not certain what you're going to get 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.120 if you continue to support the Prime Minister. And so 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.760 I think what he's trying to do in addition to 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:53.240 that point Sherry is create an impression with people. If 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:56.080 the big issues come up, if inflation continues to rise, 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.240 if interest rates continue to go up, which one of 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.520 the two of us seems likely to take decisive action 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.600 on whatever the topic of the day is. And that's 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.480 I think what he's really able to, or has been 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:13.280 able to so far, provide that distinction between his leadership 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.160 style and the Prime Minister's leadership style. 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.240 And it does look like cost of living is going 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:21.920 to continue to be a major issue for the rest 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.680 of this year. I mean the inflation data that we've 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.480 seen just this week, Joe, inflation has risen to four percent, 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.840 where now you've got economists talking about one or potentially 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.360 even two rate rises this year. 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:36.600 I mean, it wasn't so long ago. 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.280 It was the start of this year Labor was anticipating 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:40.439 there'd be an interest rate. 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:41.920 Cut at the end of this year. 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:45.079 So do you think the political debate Joe Kelly is 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.720 going to start to center on whether it's the labor 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.600 budget that's doing this because this is where Peter Dutton 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:52.440 tried to take it in question time today. 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.360 Oh, core inflation, the Reserve Banks preferred measure is at 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:00.480 four point four percent, the highest level this year. Minister, 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.080 Why do Australians have to live in fear of yet 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:05.600 another rate rise under this hopeless government? 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.200 The government has to do its bit and we've got 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.440 a government here who has been reckless in three failed budgets. 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.160 It hasn't done what needed to be done. We've got 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.040 sixteen percent growth in spending in the next two years 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.600 in this budget, driving the budget off a cliff. It's 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:23.480 a big spending but. 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:27.920 Sorry about that, Joe Kelly. So clearly that is the 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.920 coalition's argument. They're saying that it's the budget that is 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.600 to blame for the rise in inflation. Do you think 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:35.120 that has credibility? 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.520 Well, it's not just me who thinks that argument has credibility, Sharry. 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:46.320 Last week the Reserve Bank, the Reserve Bank Board released 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:50.280 its statement. It contained a new and I think very 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:54.160 revealing line saying that it was concerned about the final 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:58.679 budget outcomes. So this is the federal and state government 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:06.840 budget decisions contributing to expansionary settings which will make the 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:11.000 reserve banks jobs harder over time. So I think that 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.160 there is you know, a number of people who are 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:17.960 very concerned about this. Just recently it was Warren Hogan 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:20.360 sort of out on his own saying that he was 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.320 predicting a rate hike in coming months. But he's now 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:28.320 been joined by others financial markets sort of about you know, 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.160 fifty to fifty that there will be a rate hike. Now, 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:35.720 if that happens, I think that is a political catastrophe 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.760 for labor. It will be used mercilessly by Peter Dutton 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:43.800 and Angus Taylor to attack their budget as being inappropriate 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.840 for the time. And I think there'll be a lot 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.680 to those arguments, and this is where the election will be. 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.240 I think cherry this cost of living issue absolutely. 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:55.560 Now let's have a look at Juliana signs. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:59.160 It's been twenty four hours that since he's arrived in Australia. 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:00.800 We covered it here last night. 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.680 Already eyes are now on the US and there's now 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:10.120 calls from some of his supporters, some massage activists, pressure 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.600 that they're putting now on the US to pardon a 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.360 sanch And this is a call that his own lawyer, 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:21.280 Australian barrister Jennifer Robinson reiterated today. 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.240 Of course, the word pardon has been discussed over the 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.360 last number of years. It is something that I think 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.120 press freedom groups are talking about already because of the 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:31.760 precedent that was set that it would be the right 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:33.600 thing to do to give him a pardon, given the 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:35.760 free speech implications of what just happened and the chilling 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:36.800 effect of that prosecution. 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:38.520 What we're interested in is not. 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:40.400 Just a pardon for Julian, but in changing the law 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:42.560 to make sure that no other journalists can be prosecuted 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.080 in this way under the Espionage Act. 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:47.800 Basil. What do you think about this? 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.480 I mean, as far as I'm concerned, he's a convicted 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.480 criminal who put lives at risk. He's not a journalist. 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.880 He didn't go through this carefully. It was a document dump. 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:57.480 What do you reckon? 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.160 And he played guilty. Let's not forget that. I mean, 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.720 he is free and back in Australia today, and most 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:07.440 people would say fourteen years is long enough. We're pleased 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.280 that this saga is over and pleased that an Australian 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.000 is back on Australian soil after that ordeal. But much 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.840 of that ordeal he put himself through by not facing 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.720 the court or extradition, as were the requests upon him 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.960 when a hit in the Ecuadorian embassy, and then obviously 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:28.320 did jail time in the UK. He pled guilty to 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:35.280 one case of obtaining and disclosing national defense documents and secrets. 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.440 He pled guilty. So why do you get a pardon 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:39.720 if you are guilty? 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:40.360 No? 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.320 Well, exactly very good point, Joe. What do you think 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:46.880 of the Albanezi government's response to this. We've seen both 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.160 the Prime Minister and Penny Wong refusing to comment on 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.280 his actual crime. They just want to move past it 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.640 and instead take credit for the fact he's back in Australia. 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.120 Look Sherry, I was really struck the contrast in sort 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.159 of the political optics now the comments from Anthony Alberanisi 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.480 and the comments from Julia Gillard which you played before. 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.240 I think one of the key issues is what Julian 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:16.639 Assange does next. I was reading that he said that 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.399 he thought that there was a contradiction between the Espionage 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:23.800 Act and the First Amendment upholding free speech, freedom of 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:25.440 the media and so on, which I don't think is 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.840 particularly good sign. I think the question is, you know, 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.600 is he going to return to form? And I think 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.000 one of the risks is, given a sense of triumphalism 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:40.920 from supporters and the rhetoric from the government, he may 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:42.399 feel encouraged to do that. 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:42.720 Now. 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.280 I think the government really has to get the balance 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:53.560 right here, and certainly they would respond very forcefully against 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:57.240 the dumping of hundreds of thousands of top secret documents 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:03.280 of an Australian flavor. So I think the government has 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.439 to get the balance right in relation to this, and 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:08.200 I don't think it hats Yeah, it. 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:08.959 Seems like Albani. 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:15.119 He's loved, No, he's loved and loathed in almost in 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.960 almost equal measure. Lots of people despise what he did, 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:19.280 lots of people supported him. 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:20.120 What he should do is. 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.760 Go on the speaking circuit, put away wiki leaks forever 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.879 and go and earn some very substantial money and enjoy 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.919 his life. After fourteen years of really self imposed exile 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.120 and incarceration, he should leave that life behind him, move 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:38.439 forward with his life and let's be done with it. 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.000 Yeah, if only that was the case. In fact, I 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:42.720 think we're going to see more of him than appen. 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.400 I had Jeffrey robertson on the show last night and 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.560 he says that Julia Sange is looking at an autobiography, 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.680 So there's going to be a lot of Assange to come, unfortunately. 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.639 Basil Zemplis, Joe Kelly, thank you both for your time. 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.480 Now coming up, I'm going to show you those comments 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.680 what Julia Gillard had to say in full when Assange 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:05.240 first released his classified documents, plus Dave Sharma will let 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:09.119 loose on Alberanzi's week leadership on this matter. Plus the 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.800 stage is set for the first US presidential debate. 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.000 We'll look at all of that coming up on the 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:21.240 show Welcome Back. 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.720 Well, what would Julia Gillard and Hillary Clinton think of 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:28.520 the way Alberanizi has reacted to Julian Assange this week. 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.840 As you know, Julian Assange last night returned to Australia 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:36.080 a free man after pleading guilty to espionage. He's now 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:40.359 a convicted criminal, yet he traveled by private plane with 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:44.800 our top us and UK diplomats Steven Smith and Kevin 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:50.119 Rudd personally escorting him. Anthony Alberizi boasted that he was 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.720 the first person Assange spoke to back on Home Soil, 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.680 and the Prime Minister even posted a photograph of their 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.679 call on social media and repeatedly took full it for 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:04.680 his release. Labor, the Greens and the Teals have also 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:09.080 been singing his praises. A hero, they say, a truth teller. 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:09.720 Have a look. 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.240 At the end of the day, Julian Ostange is a 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:17.560 Walkley Award winning Australian journalist who did his job. 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:22.560 Julian Assange was a political prisoner and his freedom took 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:23.800 a political solution. 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:26.639 Journalism is not a crime. 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.199 Telling the truth should never be a crime. 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:33.520 Well, this is. 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:37.040 A far cry from how Julia Gillard reacted as Prime 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:41.359 Minister when Assange first started releasing classified documents. 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:46.680 I absolutely condemn the placement of this information on the 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:51.239 wikileiks website. It's a grossly irresponsible thing to do and 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:52.879 an illegal thing to do. 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:57.600 The AFP is investigating whether any Australian laws have been broken. 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:01.720 I can respect whistleblowing if your motivation is to right 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:07.000 wrong motivation. His motivation, as stated, is a sort of 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:12.479 anarchic here. It all is just have it, and I 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:14.600 don't have a great deal of respect for that. 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:21.160 She was unequivocal because he is an anti Western anarchist. 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.639 It is convenient for Albin EASi to forget now that 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:28.360 Assange is a convicted felon and that he was also 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:31.920 accused of rape, and he never faced up to those allegations. 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:36.760 Assange was also accused of endangering the lives of servicemen 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:40.800 and women by failing to redact any information from his 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:41.760 document dump. 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:43.880 He compromised the. 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:48.240 National security of the Five Eyes Security Alliance. 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:50.640 Yet Albin Ezi doesn't mention this. 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.440 So what signal does this send to others who may 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:58.440 want to leak classified national security information that could benefit 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:02.560 our enemies and put the lives of our undercover operatives 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:05.840 on the line. But it's also curious that the labor 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:09.879 left celebrate Assinge despite the fact he was accused of 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:14.600 colluding with Russia by releasing Hillary Clinton's emails in yet 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:20.320 another major document dump, and Hillary herself called Assange a 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:22.320 tool of Russian intelligence. 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:28.520 I think Cassange has become a kind of neolistic opportunist 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:31.679 who does the bidding of a dictator. 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:32.600 I mean, he's a. 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:33.879 Tool of Russian intelligence. 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:37.440 And if he's such a martyr of free speech, why 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:40.280 doesn't WikiLeaks ever publish anything coming out of Russia. 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:45.600 There's so much information about Assange, so much, too much 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:48.160 that I have time for now. Yet, as Chris Kenny 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:50.920 said the other day, Assange has now become a hero 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.919