1 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm christinamiot. 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: It's Thursday, October three. Australia's first treaty has hit a 3 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: huge legal snag. The Australian is exclusively revealing today the 4 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: Land Council that struck a one point three billion dollar 5 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: settlement in Western Australia's Nungar Country accessed the emails of 6 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: Aboriginal corporations managing the deal. That story's live right now 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: at the Australian dot Com dot a U. Prime Minister 8 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: Anthony Albanezi has struggled to articulate the federal government's response 9 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: to a brazen attack on Israel by Iran. In today's episode, 10 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: Foreign editor Greg Sheridan unpicks the government incoherence surrounding conflict 11 00:00:48,760 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: in the Middle East. It was an unbelievable moment in 12 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: an extraordinary conflict. In May, the International Criminal Court put 13 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: out arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and 14 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: his Defense minister. You have gland. 15 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 2: The ICC prosecutor said he believes the Israeli Prime Minister 16 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: and the Defense Minister bear criminal responsibility for a number 17 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 2: of war crimes and crimes against humanity committed in the 18 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 2: Gaza strip. 19 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: The backlash was swift and brutal. From the United States 20 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: President Joe Biden. 21 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 3: Whatever these warrants may imply, there is no equivalence between 22 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 3: Israel and Hamas. 23 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: And from Netanyahu himself, what a travesty of justice, what 24 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: a disgrace. 25 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 4: And I assure you one then this attempt. 26 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: Will utterly fail. But Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi and 27 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: extension the Labor government took a softer approach. 28 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 4: Well, I don't comment on court processes in Australia, let 29 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 4: alone court processes globally, of which Australia is not a 30 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 4: party agree and. 31 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: The appraisal of Opposition leader Peter Dutton was unforgiving. 32 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 5: I don't know why the primis is not showing leadership 33 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 5: in relation to anti Semitism and he's tarnishing and damaging 34 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 5: our international relationships was like minded nations. When he's not 35 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 5: strong enough to stand up alongside President Biden. 36 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: It's a moment that demonstrates how the government talks or 37 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: doesn't talk about conflict in the Middle East. 38 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 3: I think the Alberniti government has simply failed, absolutely comprehensively 39 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 3: and in every dimension, on every aspect of this crisis. 40 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: Greg Sheridan is the Australians Foreign Editor. 41 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: They've just shown themselves to be completely out of their 42 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 3: depths in it. It's a provincial, although call left wing 43 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 3: government which is simply completely all at sea with this 44 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 3: issue in the Middle East. They don't have the imagination, 45 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 3: they don't have the instincts, they don't have the knowledge frankly, 46 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 3: to deal with it, and they certainly don't have the courage. 47 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 3: As I've sometimes said about the Albanita government, it lacks 48 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 3: the courage of its convictions. It lacks even the courage 49 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 3: of its lack of convictions. 50 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: On Tuesday night, Iran launched hundreds of rockets at Israel 51 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: in retaliation for the death of Hesbala leader Hassan Nasralla 52 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: and a ground incursion of southern Lebanon by Israel. But 53 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: as Israel and Iran traded threats of reprisal, the Australian 54 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: PM talked in circles the region. 55 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 4: But we of course condemn Iran to actions. We once 56 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 4: again reiterate the call that we're made along with the 57 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 4: United States, the United Kingdom, the European Union, Italy, Germany, Japan, 58 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 4: Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the UAE, other nations as well, calling 59 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 4: for a de escalation. We're very concerned about Iran's actions, 60 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 4: which is why we condemned them. 61 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: Pressed on whether the Australian government would support Israel's efforts 62 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: to disable Hesbela's infrastructure, Albanizi ducked and. 63 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 4: Weaved, Well, we regard Hesbela as a terrorist organization, as 64 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 4: we regard hamas as a terrorist organization. We have been 65 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 4: working with like minded countries and issuing appropriate statements, such 66 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 4: as the ones that I referred to In. 67 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: A radio appearance later on Wednesday morning, the PM pushed 68 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: again for a ceasefire. 69 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 4: That statement said, diplomacy, however, cannot succeed amid an escalation 70 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 4: of this conflict, and tragically. 71 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 3: Escalation and conflict like it's a war. 72 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 5: Like how much escalation does there need to be for 73 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 5: it to be a war? 74 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 4: Well, it certainly is a I don't want to get 75 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 4: into a definitional argument. 76 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 5: What you have. 77 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: It's a stark contrast with the unwavering support of Israel 78 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,239 Speaker 1: by US President Joe Biden. 79 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 4: Magnow mistake. 80 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 5: The United States is fully, fully, fully supportive of. 81 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: Israel and again, Peter Dutton went on the offensive, accusing 82 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: Labor of walking away from long standing by partisanship on 83 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: issues of foreign policy. 84 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 5: I just think every reasonable Australian at the moment is 85 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 5: looking to their Prime Minister for leadership and what they're 86 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 5: seeing is weakness. It seems to me that the Prime 87 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 5: Minister and Penny Walmant at the moment are making decisions 88 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 5: that are of political benefit to them domestically, but which 89 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 5: are not in our national interests, and I think they 90 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 5: should stand well. 91 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 3: As this matter has unfolded. The government has been both 92 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 3: flat footed and cowardly and incoherent. Now, when Israel began 93 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 3: to strike back against Hasbella, Albanesi and Foreign Minister Penny 94 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 3: Wong said two contradictory things. They said, Israel has a 95 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: right to defend itself against Hazbolah, but then they opposed 96 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 3: every single specific action that Israel too. They've been unsympathetic 97 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 3: to the Australian Jewish community and Alberanesian. Wong say Israel 98 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 3: has a right to defend itself, but won't even support 99 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 3: the Americans who say Israel certainly has a right to 100 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 3: remove the has Billa infrastructure on its border. De escallation. 101 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 3: In the way that Albanesi and Wong talk about it 102 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 3: implies that military conflict is like a bad storm or something. 103 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 3: It's a bad weather pattern that has come up and 104 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 3: everyone of goodwill must just do their best to stop it. 105 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 3: But on one side of this conflict proscribed barbaric terrorist 106 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,239 Speaker 3: groups like Hasbollah and Hamas and one of the most 107 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 3: repressive states on Earth, Iran, which is also rightly described 108 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 3: as the chief state sponsor of terrorism around the world. 109 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 3: And on the other side is a long standing ally 110 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 3: and friend of Australia. The Middle East only democracy Israel, 111 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 3: and it's as if they make no moral distinction between 112 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: those two sides. On other occasions they do clearly say 113 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 3: that Israel is democracy and is a friend of Australia, 114 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 3: but when they're talking about the conflict, they effectively make 115 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 3: no distinction, and that's extremely disturbing and it means that 116 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 3: they have really abandoned Israel as a government. The Opposition 117 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 3: has continued the traditional Australian position of solidarity with. 118 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: Israel since October seventh. Labor has been consistent on one thing, 119 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: Israel's right to defend itself. The question is how. 120 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 3: Stone foreign policy is extremely incoherent on this matter. Australia 121 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 3: is signed up to a lot of resolutions demanding that 122 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 3: Israel withdraw from the so called occupied territories, but there's 123 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 3: no practical measure of what is supposed to happen. If 124 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 3: they just withdrew, Hamas would run Gaza and probably Hammas 125 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 3: would quite quickly run the West Bank as well. The 126 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 3: Albanizi's demand of the Israeli government is completely unrealistic. It 127 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 3: then furthermore criticizes every single thing that Israel does in 128 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 3: its own self defense. And now the Alberanza government wants 129 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 3: an immediate cease fire. But what is Israel supposed to do. 130 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 3: Is it supposed to simply endure endless rocket attacks from Hezbollah? 131 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 3: And is it supposed to allow Hesballa to build up 132 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 3: forces on its border which it could use for October 133 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 3: seven style massacres, which has by itself has declared it 134 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 3: intends to do. And you don't get anything coherent out 135 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 3: of the Albaneza government because what you're really getting from 136 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 3: them is performative, symbolic local politics, which leads you to 137 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 3: the final point really, which is that the world itself 138 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 3: is in a kind of a crisis of recrudescent anti Semitism, 139 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 3: and you would think a civilized social democratic party like 140 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 3: the Labor Party would put at the very top of 141 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 3: its rhetorical agenda fighting that anti semitism, instead of which, 142 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 3: while the government obviously is not anti Semitic, it does 143 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 3: almost nothing to fight anti Semitism. 144 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: Coming up, how Labour's moves on the world stage play 145 00:09:52,360 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: back at home. On Saturday, Foreign Minister Penny Wong addressed 146 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: the United Nations General Assembly in. 147 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 6: New York, more conflict than any time since World War II, 148 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 6: Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Sudan, me and ma Yemen, Gaza 149 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 6: and now Lebanon brutal. 150 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: In that speech, she called for a clear timeline for 151 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: recognition of Palestinian statehood. 152 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 6: Because a two state solution is the only hope of 153 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 6: breaking the endless cycle of violence, the only hope to 154 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 6: see a secure and prosperous future for both peoples. 155 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: Wong's speech was another divergence from the US and our 156 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: other Western allies on how this conflict might be resolved. 157 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: The question now is how it plays for both sides 158 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: in the run up to a federal election, which some 159 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: suspect could happen in March. 160 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 3: I think Albna government could well be miscalculating on the 161 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 3: politics of all this. The character of this debate almost 162 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 3: seems reminiscent to me of what happened with the Voice. 163 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 3: The Labor Party is chasing a certain activist minority, scared 164 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 3: that its competitors on the left will capture the support 165 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 3: of this activist minority. But I think the majority of 166 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 3: Australians can work out when there's terrorists on one side 167 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 3: of an argument and a democracy on the other side, 168 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 3: they're in favor of the democracy. The other thing is 169 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 3: people can see the incoherence and they can see the 170 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 3: political cowardice, and whatever your position is, you wouldn't be 171 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 3: satisfied with the federal government because it doesn't have the 172 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 3: courage or even really the intellectual capability of mounting a serious, 173 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 3: coherent position about the Middle East. When you are afflicted 174 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 3: with a complete lack of influence and no feel for 175 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 3: a subject, the last thing you want to be doing 176 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 3: is making dogmatic statements about it. But that's what the 177 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 3: government has been doing. For the taudry political reasons that 178 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 3: I outline, and its cynicism and its feebleness. I think 179 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 3: are clear to people, and therefore it might even damage 180 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 3: the government with the electorate, even among those parts of 181 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 3: the electric which don't care much about the Middle East. 182 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: Greg Sheridan is The Australian's Foreign editor. Our reporters are 183 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: on the ground in Israel as this Middle Eastern conflict 184 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: heats up. You can read all their updates right now 185 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: at the Australian dot com dot au