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Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Friday, March twenty twenty twenty six. The federal budget

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Speaker 1: is just around the corner and Jim Chalmers says we

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Speaker 1: could be in for a grim few years. He's told

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Speaker 1: economous Australia may not hit productivity goals for half a decade.

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Speaker 1: Israel's new ambassador to Australia says the war with Iran

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Speaker 1: is an urgent act of self defense and a struggle

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Speaker 1: between barbarism and civilization. That's an exclusive live now at

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Speaker 1: the Australian dot Com. The List Australia's Riches two fifty

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Speaker 1: is always a lot of fun. Who's down, who's playing

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Speaker 1: it down and who's really enjoying rolling in cash. We've

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Speaker 1: got this year's top ten ready to go, and editor

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Speaker 1: John Stenzelt is here in just a moment. The List

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Speaker 1: Australia's Riches two fifty is out today and editor John

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Speaker 1: stands all this here. Who's on top?

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Speaker 2: Gena Righthart of course, of course, who that's right? I

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Speaker 2: mean to know, she makes so much money, she's on

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Speaker 2: top very easily.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me about how Gena's moved up and down

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Speaker 1: or around the top position over the past few years.

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Speaker 2: John She's been on top for about five or six

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Speaker 2: years now. So it's all about the iron ore price

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Speaker 2: with her, and all about exporting ironl to China, as

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Speaker 2: it always is. Although she seems to spend more time

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Speaker 2: at Mara Lago these days over at America with a

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Speaker 2: certain presidents, but her business here in Australia is still

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Speaker 2: ticking over very very nicely.

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Speaker 1: One of the things about the list is that at

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Speaker 1: a certain point you have to lock off when you

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Speaker 1: stop calculating these billionaires wealth. And of course the news

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Speaker 1: doesn't stop it. It all keeps happening. How have the

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Speaker 1: recent events in Iran, the fact that we're now facing

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Speaker 1: a fuel crisis, maybe a diesel crisis, maybe an energy crisis.

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Speaker 1: How's that affecting the richest people?

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Speaker 2: Well, there's an Ali crisis as well, that's going on.

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Speaker 2: It's look the stock market, I have not seen this

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Speaker 2: voltole for a long long time, Like you're getting movements

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Speaker 2: of five, six, seven, ten, twelve percent of stocks going

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Speaker 2: up and down every day. We had to roll it

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Speaker 2: off at a certain point, right and that was a

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Speaker 2: few weeks ago because we've got to get the magazine

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Speaker 2: into print. But yeah, it's been really interesting to see

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Speaker 2: it go all the way to that line because of

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Speaker 2: all those factors that you say. Stock markets move on sentiment, right,

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Speaker 2: so people will get worried about something they go down,

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Speaker 2: or they get really excited about something that they go up.

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Speaker 2: So these people in the list, they're all billionaires, well

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Speaker 2: most of them are these days.

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Speaker 3: There's one hundred and eighty eight of them out of

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Speaker 3: two fifty.

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Speaker 2: But they're still subject to the vagaries of what's going

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Speaker 2: on out there.

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Speaker 1: The next two on the top five, number two, Harry

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Speaker 1: Triggerbov property developer, and then Anthony Pratt and family, whose

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Speaker 1: fortune is in Visi the cardboard box company. I remember

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Speaker 1: when we had you on just after COVID John, we

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Speaker 1: talked about how pizza boxes had been very, very good

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Speaker 1: business for Anthony Pratt. What's happening now.

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Speaker 2: There's still a lot of home deliveries these days. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but it seems to be

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Speaker 2: an Amazon packaged lands at our house every hour or two,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of those are in busy boxes. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're going very well. So it's manufacturing, there's going to

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Speaker 2: be clearly going to be cost issues with a company

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Speaker 2: like that, But he's just I think he said it

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Speaker 2: our global food for them, We'll just put the prices

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Speaker 2: up as well. So yeah, they are subjects and vagaries

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Speaker 2: and exchange rates as well. Right, He's got a lot

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Speaker 2: of business in America these days and brings it back

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Speaker 2: to Australia too, So even at that level where he's

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Speaker 2: worth thirty billion dollars, he's still watching what's happening out

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Speaker 2: there geopolitically every day because it has a big effect

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Speaker 2: on the business.

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Speaker 1: We're in a high inflation moment. The Reserve Bank is

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Speaker 1: trying to squash that. Yet again, is that good for

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Speaker 1: billionaires the very richest people? Is inflation good for them?

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Speaker 2: I think you get to a stage where those interest

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Speaker 2: rates don't really account There's a lot of those billionaires

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Speaker 2: that buy real estate. They don't take out mortgages, clare,

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Speaker 2: so they're going to be ok. I think it's that

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Speaker 2: effect that has on their business. In retail, businesses that

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Speaker 2: are subject to what consumers are thinking out there. So

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of those companies that sell products to

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Speaker 2: the mass market. So if consumers are tightening their belts

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Speaker 2: because of interest rate rises, there's issues with construction costs

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Speaker 2: and in the real estate. Then absolutely it's going to

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Speaker 2: affect them. It may not affect them directly, you know,

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Speaker 2: if you have a super yat or a private jet,

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Speaker 2: you probably still are going okay, but there's certainly effects

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Speaker 2: on their business, so they watch it very closely.

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Speaker 1: Number four is Clive Palmer, another old fashioned billionaire who

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Speaker 1: seems to be dipping his toe back towards politics now.

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Speaker 1: And then five and six are Cliff Obricked and Melanie Perkins,

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Speaker 1: who founded Canva and have really led the absolute revolution

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Speaker 1: in design. Now everybody can I can design things really

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Speaker 1: quite badly, but on canvas that I once would have

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Speaker 1: had to use a graphic designer for. They are now

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Speaker 1: really an AI company like most tech companies. How are

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Speaker 1: they being affected by the AAR revolution.

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Speaker 2: Look, they've made some acquisitions in AIS based Leonardo is

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Speaker 2: one of them, which actually hasn't gone very well. The

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Speaker 2: Australians documented that there's been some people that they've basically

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Speaker 2: effectively sacked right after making big acquisite to try and

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Speaker 2: integrate that AI into their company. So they're having challenges

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Speaker 2: I think, at least with canva Ai. They have talked

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Speaker 2: about how much it helps them. They all talk about

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Speaker 2: it like that, so in a way to try and

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Speaker 2: head off any concerns. They are profitable for a start,

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Speaker 2: which for a software company we won't talk about at

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Speaker 2: Lassian as a contrast. At least they're profitable now. Whether

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Speaker 2: or not they end up listing on a stock market soon,

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Speaker 2: it's been a long term plan that's subject to the

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Speaker 2: volatility of the market, and it was meant to be

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Speaker 2: sometime this year, so maybe it isn't. But look for

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Speaker 2: the moment, I think they're still going pretty well, but

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if their valuation gets cut pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: Those two have been very clever in the way they've

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Speaker 1: managed their public image. I think they still have a

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Speaker 1: bit of a halo around them. The opposite has happened

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Speaker 1: to Scott Farquhar and Mike cannon Brooks from at Lassian.

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Speaker 1: They've had a very public and unpleasant breakup and now

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Speaker 1: Mike cannon Brooks is left dealing with what seems to

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Speaker 1: be a mess at Lassian, one.

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Speaker 3: Of Australia's biggest tech companies.

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Speaker 4: At Lassians they said it will cut ten percent of

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Speaker 4: its global workforce.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about them. They're at twelve and thirteen, so

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Speaker 1: were jumping out of the top ten for a second.

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Speaker 3: They were like four and five a year ago.

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Speaker 2: Right, So they've lost about sixteen seventeen billion dollars that's

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Speaker 2: been wiped off the value of their wealth in the

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Speaker 2: last year, and that's because the Outlassian share price has

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Speaker 2: gone down so much. That is directly related to AI. So,

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Speaker 2: I mean, the company particularly that's seen as a threat

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Speaker 2: to them is Anthropic, which has the clawed chatbot which

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Speaker 2: people can use in the office to sort of effectively

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Speaker 2: replicate what the Outlassian software has done for many years

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Speaker 2: of the collaboration software that they have. So on the

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Speaker 2: one hand, this Anthropic product, the market shareholders have identified

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Speaker 2: that is is a big threat to Atlassian And as

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Speaker 2: a bit of an irony for you, Claire canon Brooks

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Speaker 2: has the huge sun cable solar power project that he

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Speaker 2: wants to get going in the Northern Territory, which could

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Speaker 2: be worth thirty or forty billion dollars. He wants to

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Speaker 2: build a data center next to that. That's his private company.

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Speaker 2: He's trying to get Anthropic as a customer of that

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Speaker 2: data center, So on the one hand is good for him,

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Speaker 2: on the one head is bad for him. So it's

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Speaker 2: these are the sort of ups and downs that you

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Speaker 2: see through a list like this.

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Speaker 1: These disruptors are being disrupted themselves in a way that

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Speaker 1: previously would have taken a couple of generations. When we

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Speaker 1: think about other billionaire families, how do you think they've

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Speaker 1: coped with it?

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Speaker 2: I don't think they know how to cope with it

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Speaker 2: at the moment, right. I mean, they're the grand old

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Speaker 2: age of their mid forties. They formed their company twenty

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Speaker 2: two to twenty three years ago. It doesn't feel like

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Speaker 2: long ago, but to be disrupted again at such a

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Speaker 2: young age. They were ahead of the curve so much

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Speaker 2: back then, and now they've tried to make acquisitions in

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Speaker 2: that AI space and they're still a bit of groping

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Speaker 2: around in the darkest to what that means for a

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Speaker 2: company like Alassian. You could see that with the job

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Speaker 2: cuts they announced a sort of week or so ago

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Speaker 2: of sixteen hundred people. I suspect there might be more.

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Speaker 4: It's an incredibly hard decision, but I still believe that

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Speaker 4: it's the right one. We're focused on moving faster, staying

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Speaker 4: disciplined on costs and proving that we can grow profitably

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Speaker 4: over the long term by staying responsive to the world

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Speaker 4: that we have to operate in.

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Speaker 2: That's a company that needs to make profits too. The

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Speaker 2: market's clearly identified that they've racked up about three point

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Speaker 2: five billion dollars of losses over the last ten years,

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Speaker 2: and I think the market's saying enough, gose get your

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Speaker 2: house in order make some money, and you know, cut

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Speaker 2: your cloth accordingly.

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Speaker 1: We really did see an era where incredibly newsworthy companies

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Speaker 1: had huge valuations despite not having made a profit. Alasian

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Speaker 1: is the perfect example. Took camer a long time to

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Speaker 1: make a profit. Is that going to change in the future,

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Speaker 1: do you think, John or not?

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Speaker 2: I feel in these volatile times it probably does. I

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Speaker 2: mean you're seeing a bit of a swing back to

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Speaker 2: some of these old fashion industries so to speak. You know,

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Speaker 2: in mining, in financial services, in manufacturing, in real estate

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Speaker 2: that have actually done pretty well on the stock exchange

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Speaker 2: in the last year. And there's a bit of a

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Speaker 2: flight to gold, for example. I know that's a safe,

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Speaker 2: defensive thing. So you've seen gold or lithium miners that

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Speaker 2: are back in fashion too. So I think there's a

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Speaker 2: bit of a moment where investors are saying, we'd love

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Speaker 2: to see making some money, but with one probably notable exception.

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Speaker 2: That's so if you're on the AI revolution, there's some

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Speaker 2: really interesting new names that coming on the list because

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Speaker 2: of that, then you know it looks like you're getting

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Speaker 2: massive valuations.

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Speaker 1: Coming up. Be under the radar. Billionaires. Racing up the

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Speaker 1: list at number seven is Nicola Forest, one place ahead

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Speaker 1: of her ex husband or estranged husband, Andrew Forrest.

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Speaker 2: Tell me why, Well, she's got fifty million more Fortescue

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Speaker 2: Metals Group shares than Andrew does.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: I suspect that was some sort of a settlement, an

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Speaker 2: agreement when they did split up a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 2: So yes, she's just above them. Other than that holding,

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Speaker 2: they've still got fifty to fifty shareholdings in public assets

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Speaker 2: and also private assets. They've got a big, tattering empire

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Speaker 2: that owns Iram Williams, for example, so assets like that.

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Speaker 2: So there fifty to fifty except for the little bit

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Speaker 2: that she's got on top, which actually turns out to

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Speaker 2: be about a billion dollars worth.

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Speaker 1: He's got big dreams too about green hydrogen and all

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Speaker 1: sorts of other things.

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Speaker 4: I'm saying, anyone who says Hygien hasn't got a massive

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Speaker 4: future a muppets, she tends.

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Speaker 1: To invest more in things like real estate with her money.

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Speaker 1: Is that a more sensible strategy right now? Do you think?

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Speaker 2: Well, again, it goes back to that volatility, right, there's

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Speaker 2: a scarcity when it comes to real estate.

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Speaker 3: I think you.

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Speaker 2: Still see Sydney Prestige property still setting all sorts of

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Speaker 2: records all the time.

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Speaker 3: So maybe that's a bit of a safe have.

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Speaker 2: And look, you never know with companies in the stock exchange,

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Speaker 2: there's that sentiment. As I go back to it, it

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Speaker 2: can really vary very quickly, and more passive assets like

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Speaker 2: that can be safe for Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And number nine is someone I've never heard of, Michael Darrell.

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Speaker 1: What's his story.

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Speaker 2: He's a guy that behind Stone Peak, which is a

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Speaker 2: New York basically infrastructure investment company, owns a lot of

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Speaker 2: infrastructure assets around the world and yet made his money out.

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Speaker 3: Of the spotlight.

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Speaker 2: But he's doing very very well. He's an Aussie on

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Speaker 2: Wall Street, big crinol Sharks fan.

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Speaker 3: He's a very interesting guy.

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Speaker 2: He's got a one hundred and fifty million dollar house

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Speaker 2: across the water from mar A Lago in work in Florida.

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Speaker 3: We since he spent his weekends.

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Speaker 1: And have you been watching him? Of course where else

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Speaker 1: would you go? Have you been watching him climb the

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Speaker 1: ranks towards this number nine.

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Speaker 2: Percenttionast couple of years, he's gone really really well. The

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Speaker 2: more assets of that company accumulates on its balance sheet,

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Speaker 2: the more it tends to get valued. So in that

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Speaker 2: way he has moved up. But again it's a little

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Speaker 2: bit more of an old fashioned sort of asset owning business.

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Speaker 1: And number ten is probably the ultimate old fashioned businessman

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Speaker 1: with a real log cabin story. Kerry Stokes, who grew

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Speaker 1: up in relative poverty, became one of the most powerful

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Speaker 1: figures in Australian mining and media and now is stepping back.

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Speaker 1: Really why is he still at number ten?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's because of other industries. Actually, the media plays

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Speaker 2: a very very small part of his holdings these days.

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Speaker 2: So his seven Group or SGH it's what it's now

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Speaker 2: known NAZ has a whole bunch of other more sort

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Speaker 2: of mining services or construction or infrastructure related companies like

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Speaker 2: the Caterpillar business that's here in Australia, for example, borrel

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Speaker 2: which makes building material. So that's where the real strength

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Speaker 2: of his wealth is now. I mean clearly, being a

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Speaker 2: media mogul brought him a lot of influence and power

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Speaker 2: over the years, but it's almost like a sliver of

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Speaker 2: what his wealth is now.

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Speaker 1: Now. On the cover is someone else who I haven't

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Speaker 1: heard of John I'm learning a lot this time. Matt Lattimore.

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Speaker 1: Who is he?

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Speaker 3: He's a Queensland cole baron.

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Speaker 2: I think he's got a really interesting story too. So

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Speaker 2: he grew up in regional New South Wales and we'll

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Speaker 2: see on our website on Friday that we've got video

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Speaker 2: of him going to see his parents back there, and

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Speaker 2: it's corporate jet footage.

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Speaker 3: All these things you have to do with the riches

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Speaker 3: two fifty I think.

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Speaker 1: So with you on the corporate general I've.

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Speaker 2: Met a colleague as well, so we we're had a

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Speaker 2: great time filming meeting of the parents. Looking around where

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Speaker 2: a guy comes from and sort of quite humble beginnings.

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Speaker 2: He goes off to university in Queensland. He moves over

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Speaker 2: to Japan, studies the language there, goes into the library

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Speaker 2: and starts reading about trading and what are the big

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Speaker 2: trades between Japan and Australia. Well, it turns out to

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Speaker 2: be coal and resources, so he gets a job in

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Speaker 2: that industry. It goes to a couple of different places,

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Speaker 2: including West Farmers, and then decides to form his own

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Speaker 2: business and Resources about fifteen years ago. Now starts basically

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Speaker 2: by working in the coffee shops around Brisbane and just.

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Speaker 3: Keeps growing and growing and growing and growing.

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Speaker 2: And now his company is making one hundred million dollars

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Speaker 2: net profit every year trading coal and buying other commodities.

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Speaker 2: He's very interested now in steelmaking. He's one of the

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Speaker 2: contenders to buy the Wayala Steel Works in South Australia.

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Speaker 2: So he's right at the pointy end of that. And

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Speaker 2: he's got this corporate jet that he uses a business tool.

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Speaker 2: He flies South America, North America, Asia, Europe. He's on

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Speaker 2: the road a lot or in the air a lot.

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Speaker 1: Did you have to talk him into letting you come

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Speaker 1: on board? What was he happy to talk?

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Speaker 2: I think he wanted to show that a guy that

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Speaker 2: does come from just a pretty normal family. His mum

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Speaker 2: and dad were fantastic showing us all old clippings of

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Speaker 2: when he was an athlete, an eight hundred meter runner

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Speaker 2: in high school and winning medals there. He actually puts

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Speaker 2: some of his persistence down to the training that he

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Speaker 2: used to do but little athletics, which I thought is

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Speaker 2: a great story. So yeah, it's quite interesting to see where people,

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Speaker 2: you know, not everyone's born into wealth, and there's just

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Speaker 2: that persistence and there's great stories. I mean, we obviously

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Speaker 2: rank all these people when it comes to the numbers,

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Speaker 2: but I think what we try to do differently in

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Speaker 2: this magazine is just too just tell stories about interesting people.

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Speaker 2: At the end of the day, it's a collection of

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Speaker 2: interesting people that I think have got interesting stories behind them,

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Speaker 2: and there's all sorts of weird and wonderful ways that

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Speaker 2: they get on this list.

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Speaker 1: It's nice to see someone enjoying their wealth. I mean

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Speaker 1: I say that because a lot of the people who

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Speaker 1: who are on the list, maybe they are quietly enjoying

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Speaker 1: their wealth, but they certainly don't want you, you know,

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Speaker 1: you to write about it, do they.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think you'll find a lot of them talk

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Speaker 2: to me on background, but they don't necessarily want to

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Speaker 2: be public. I would say the vast majority of the

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Speaker 2: list actually do talk to us. I end up having

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Speaker 2: these crazy conversations that I think you're worth one point

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Speaker 2: two billion, and they will come back to me and say, no,

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Speaker 2: it's one point two to three billion. So this is

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Speaker 2: the bizarre world that billionaires can inhabit at times. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of interest. I can assure you that

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Speaker 2: when the list hits the website or comes out in print,

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Speaker 2: that the two fifty on the list watch it pretty

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Speaker 2: closely in and I hear pretty quickly if there's any

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Speaker 2: issues with it.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you do. John, Thank you very much, Thanks Claire.

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Speaker 1: John Stensholt is the editor of the list Australia's Riches

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Speaker 1: two fifty. It's out now and you can see who's

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Speaker 1: making and losing money right now at the Australian dot

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Speaker 1: com dot au