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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, April one, twenty twenty five. The fight over

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Speaker 1: energy prices is heading up, with allegations the government is

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Speaker 1: telling businesses the wholesale electricity price will come down while

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Speaker 1: refusing to make the same promise to householders. It comes

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Speaker 1: as the federal election campaign enters a fiery first week,

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Speaker 1: with the suspected Chinese spy ship in Bass Strait allegedly

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Speaker 1: examining undersea cables. The Australian's reporting today that ship is

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Speaker 1: being monitored by the Australian Border Force, not the military,

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Speaker 1: as claimed by the Prime Minister, who says he would

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Speaker 1: prefer the ship was not in Australian waters. Those stories

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Speaker 1: and all the elections scoops and drama are live now

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Speaker 1: at the Australian dot com dot au. Christopher Michael Dawson

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Speaker 1: is appealing his convention for the unlawful carnal knowledge of

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Speaker 1: a schoolgirl. His lawyers say the trial judge made errors

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Speaker 1: and the verdict of guilty was unreasonable. It all turns

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Speaker 1: on when Dawson had his first kiss with the girl

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Speaker 1: when he was in his early thirties and she was

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Speaker 1: a teenager today. Why Dawson says he's not guilty before

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Speaker 1: we begin This episode contains details of alleged sexual offending.

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Speaker 1: When did a schoolgirl share her first kiss with the

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Speaker 1: man she would later marry. It's an evocative moment. He's

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Speaker 1: teaching her to drive, seizing the opportunity to be alone

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Speaker 1: with this beautiful young woman. She's desperate to gain her

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Speaker 1: license as a measure of freedom from the turbulence of

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Speaker 1: her home life. They will go on to have sex, marry,

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Speaker 1: and welcome a daughter. But this is no ordinary teenage

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Speaker 1: love story. He is Christopher Dawson, a married teacher in

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Speaker 1: his thirties, a father of two small girls. He will

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Speaker 1: pursue his obsession with this schoolgirl so far as to

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Speaker 1: kill his wife, Lynette Simms. He'll be convicted of murdering

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Speaker 1: Lynn and of having unlawful carnal knowledge of the schoolgirl

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Speaker 1: by having sex with her when she was sixteen and

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Speaker 1: a pupil in his sports coaching class, but he will

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Speaker 1: never admit guilt and is appealing all his convictions. And

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Speaker 1: that's why in the New South Wales Court of Criminal

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Speaker 1: Appeal we spent Monday back in nineteen eighty driving around

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Speaker 1: Sydney's Northern beaches with Dawson and this girl who can

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Speaker 1: only be identified as Ab. The timing of that first

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Speaker 1: kiss did it happen in nineteen eighty or nineteen eighty one.

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Speaker 1: He's the core of Dawson's appeal against his conviction for

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Speaker 1: unlawful carnal knowledge. He's also fighting the murder conviction and

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Speaker 1: is presently seeking special leave to appeal to the High

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Speaker 1: Court of Australia. In late nineteen eighty, the girl was

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Speaker 1: sixteen years old, old enough to legally consent to sex,

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Speaker 1: except if it involved one of her teachers. The law

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Speaker 1: at the time held that the age of consent was seventeen.

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Speaker 1: If it involved a pupil and her teacher. That means

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Speaker 1: to be guilty of the charge, Dawson must have had

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Speaker 1: sex with the girl when she was in his class,

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Speaker 1: that is, before year eleven formally finished on December twelfth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, and before her seventeenth birthday. So the crucial

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Speaker 1: issue is was she sixteen or seventeen when they first

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Speaker 1: had sex and when they shared their first kiss. Ab

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Speaker 1: has described their first sexual intercourse at his parents' home

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Speaker 1: in the southeastern Sydney suburb of Marouba, and says it

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Speaker 1: was before her seventeenth birthday. Part of the evidence in

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Speaker 1: the carnal knowledge trial were cards Dawson gave Ab for

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Speaker 1: Christmas nineteen eighty and her seventeenth birthday early in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty one. Here's Judge Sarah Hugget finding Dawson guilty back

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Speaker 1: in June twenty twenty three and listing the factors which

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Speaker 1: convinced her they did have sex before December twelfth, nineteen eighty,

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Speaker 1: when the school term ended.

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Speaker 2: The fact the accused addressed to Christmas card to PETL

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Speaker 2: and signed the card Love Always God, which I find

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Speaker 2: to be powerful evidence that supports and is consistent with

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Speaker 2: the timeline of the events described by the complainant and

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Speaker 2: completely inconsistent with a developing relationship in which the accused

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Speaker 2: was becoming romantic towards the complainant after the end of

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Speaker 2: the nineteen eighty school year.

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Speaker 1: It was all part of the evidence Judge Hugget used

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Speaker 1: to find Dawson had had sex with Ab before her

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Speaker 1: seventeenth birthday, which was in early nineteen eighty one.

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Speaker 2: The fact the accused addressed a seventeenth birthday card to

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Speaker 2: quote the most beautiful girl in the world, and wrote

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Speaker 2: a message that included quote knowing we will share all

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Speaker 2: the birthdays to follow all my love for ever xxx,

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Speaker 2: which I find to be powerful evidence revealing that on

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Speaker 2: or around the complainant's seventeenth birthday, the accused, a mature

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Speaker 2: man as opposed to an immature teenager, was confident in

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Speaker 2: the existence of a reciprocal and permanent relationship, and that

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Speaker 2: was because the sexual relationship had commenced between one July

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty and twelve December nineteen eighty.

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Speaker 1: You might remember the day of this verdict in June

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three because Chris Dawson, over the video link

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Speaker 1: from prison, made quite a remarkable outbursts. That was after

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Speaker 1: the judge left the court room. She returned in September

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three to imprison.

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Speaker 2: Him, Christopher Dawson, for the offense of cardinal knowledge of

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Speaker 2: a girl above the age of ten years and under

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Speaker 2: the age of seventeen years and who was your pupil.

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Speaker 2: I sentenced you to imprisonment for three years, commencing on

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Speaker 2: thirty August twenty thirty nine and expiring on twenty nine

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Speaker 2: August twenty forty two, with a non parole period of

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Speaker 2: two years expiring on twenty nine August twenty forty one,

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Speaker 2: on which date you were eligible for a parole.

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Speaker 1: Dawson was already serving twenty four years for the murder

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Speaker 1: of Lynn.

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Speaker 2: Implicit in the offense is that the offending involved an

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Speaker 2: abuse of the position of trust and authority held by

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Speaker 2: a teacher in relation to a pupil. At the time

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Speaker 2: of the offense, the offender was aged thirty two brackets

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Speaker 2: or very close to thirty two as a mature, educated

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Speaker 2: and intelligent man. The victim was aged sixteen and some months,

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Speaker 2: placing her at the top end of the age range.

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Speaker 2: The offender elected to engage in a sexual relationship with

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Speaker 2: the victim when she was his student and he was

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Speaker 2: her teacher, and in circumstances where I consider his moral

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Speaker 2: culpability to be high.

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Speaker 1: For the appeal hearing on Monday March thirty one, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five, Dawson was visible on the audio visual link.

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Speaker 1: He was wearing the standard dark green prison issue tracksuit

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Speaker 1: familiar in New South Wales jails. He was listed not

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Speaker 1: by name but as mrrc J Bloc CS twelve that's

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Speaker 1: Silver Water Jail in Sydney's Inner West, the rather grandly

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Speaker 1: named Metropolitan Remand and Reception Center, which is a maximum

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Speaker 1: security prison for men. It's where prisoners go when they're

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Speaker 1: first in custody or awaiting trial. After his court made

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Speaker 1: are over, Dawson will return to his regular cell at

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Speaker 1: Clarence Correctional Center's Aged and Frail Unit. Dawson is represented

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Speaker 1: by Legal aid in his appeal, and the barrister is

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Speaker 1: one of the state's most expensive silks. Stephen Odger's sc

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Speaker 1: We've used a voice actor to bring you his words.

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Speaker 3: I'm not seeking to persuade your honors that there was

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Speaker 3: doubt about the truthfulness of the complainant. The real issue

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Speaker 3: is her reliability, particularly in relation to timing.

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Speaker 1: Orgess is saying AB isn't a liar, She's just got

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Speaker 1: her dates mixed up. He took the appeal. Dodgers through

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Speaker 1: AB's various statements about when the first kiss happened. Through

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Speaker 1: multiple statements to police and in court, she said the

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Speaker 1: first kiss happened during driving lessons. AB would have been

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Speaker 1: eligible for a learner's permit in November nineteen eighty, but

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight. She said she recalled Dawson picking

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Speaker 1: her up from her mother's home in Heather Street, Collery Plateau,

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Speaker 1: and there's evidence that the family didn't move to that

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Speaker 1: unit until early nineteen eighty one. In twenty nineteen, Ab

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Speaker 1: said she was confident they first had sex before she

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Speaker 1: got her learner's permit, and then under cross examination, she

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Speaker 1: said she was uncertain about the exact date.

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Speaker 3: Even if the judge correctly finds that she's generally truthful,

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Speaker 3: generally reliable, there still may be reasons for doubt.

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Speaker 1: Org just also raised doubt about the timing of fitness

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Speaker 1: classes Dawson took at Linfield Public School. It was after

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Speaker 1: one of these classes that Ab and other witnesses say

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Speaker 1: she and Dawson were kissing and fondling in the pool.

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Speaker 1: Ab said in her evidence that the pool encounter, which

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Speaker 1: she firmly believed happened in nineteen eighty was part of

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Speaker 1: the grooming process and that it occurred before she first

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Speaker 1: had sex with Dawson. But other witnesses say they saw

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Speaker 1: Ab in the pool with Dawson in nineteen eighty one,

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Speaker 1: and Judge Sarah Haggart accepted this was accurate and that

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Speaker 1: Ab had been confused about the time. Judge Huggett found

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Speaker 1: a b was not deliberately lying, just mistaken or just

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Speaker 1: told the appeal court. This meant there was reasonable doubt

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Speaker 1: about the timing. If AB was wrong about the fitness classes,

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Speaker 1: she could also be wrong about when she first had

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Speaker 1: sex with Dawson.

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Speaker 3: It ceased to be a criminal offense soon after December

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Speaker 3: twelfth of nineteen eighty. He is clearly smitten by her

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Speaker 3: and they ultimately married. He clearly is romantically very attracted

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Speaker 3: to her. The question is did he go to the

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Speaker 3: next step of committing this serious criminal offense and is

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Speaker 3: there a doubt about that based on timing.

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Speaker 1: Coming up? Why the Crown says Dawson's conviction should stand.

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Speaker 1: That's after the break in this case. Counsel for the

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Speaker 1: Crown is the Deputy State Director of Public Prosecutions Helen

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Speaker 1: Roberts SC. She told the judges they should uphold Judge

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Speaker 1: Sarah Huggart's verdict of guilt. Stephen Odgers for Dawson, is

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Speaker 1: arguing that the inconsistencies in AB's evidence add up to

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Speaker 1: reasonable doubt and that therefore Dawson shouldn't have been convicted.

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Speaker 1: Helen Roberts told the judges. In fact, Judge Huggart accurately

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Speaker 1: observed the inconsistencies but still correctly found Dawson guilty. Here's

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Speaker 1: a voice actor reading Helen Roberts's words.

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Speaker 4: The complainant gives evidence that the sexual relationship commenced when

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Speaker 4: she was sixteen years old and when she was in

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Speaker 4: year eleven. And the question is can the Crown prove

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Speaker 4: that relying on her evidence beyond reasonable doubt. It's a

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Speaker 4: question of the reliability of the complainant on the key issues.

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Speaker 4: The trial judge did not her in the way her

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Speaker 4: honor approached it.

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Speaker 1: Helen Roberts observed that Steven Odgers for Dawson, had argued

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Speaker 1: that the Christmas and Birthday cards did not contain any

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Speaker 1: overtly sexual content, and that therefore they shouldn't be seen

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Speaker 1: as evidence of a sexual relationship. Robert said, in fact,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what you'd expect from someone like Dawson.

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Speaker 4: The absence of direct reference to sexual content should not

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Speaker 4: be something that makes that evidence less compelling. It would

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Speaker 4: not be expected that he would, given the way in

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Speaker 4: which he was relating to her, which was as a caring, helpful,

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Speaker 4: loving older mature man. It would be unexpected if the

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Speaker 4: cards were to have overt sexual content on them.

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Speaker 1: Robert said the card was signed all my love.

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Speaker 4: We submit that it is powerful support for confidence in

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Speaker 4: an already formed sexual relationship. It's highly consistent with the

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Speaker 4: complainant's account that he had said he wanted to marry

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Speaker 4: her and that he wanted to be with her and

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Speaker 4: he would look after her on or around the complainant's

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Speaker 4: seventeenth birthday. The accused, a mature man as opposed to

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Speaker 4: an immature teenager, was confident in the existence of reciprocal

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Speaker 4: and permanent relationship, and that was because a sexual relationship

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Speaker 4: had commenced.

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Speaker 1: The judges have retired to consider their decision. The Australians

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Speaker 1: podcast The Teacher's Pet was instrumental in bringing to light

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Speaker 1: the allegations that Chris Dawson was a murderer and a

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Speaker 1: child sex offender, allegations Dawson has always steadfastly denied. You

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Speaker 1: can listen to The Teacher's Pet and its companion podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Teacher's Trial and The Teacher's Accuser wherever you're listening

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Speaker 1: right now, and you can follow the course of Dawson's

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Speaker 1: appeals at the Australian dot com dot au