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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed, summer investing series brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Vanter, specialists in compliance led growth. I'm Suan

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Speaker 1: Aylmer something very different for you today. We've covered all

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Speaker 1: kinds of alternative investments on Fear and Greed, but we've

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Speaker 1: never talked about pinball machines. As always, this is general

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Speaker 1: information only and you should seek independent advice before making

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Speaker 1: investment decisions. Stefan von Immoff is the co founder of

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Speaker 1: alternative investing community fund alts dot Co. That's alt S

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Speaker 1: dot Co. Stefan, welcome back to Fear and Greed.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Well, pinball machines that you're talking my era? Why are

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Speaker 1: they suddenly collectible? I just like to kick them.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's be clear when we're talking about pinball machines

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Speaker 2: as an alternative investment, this is more of a collectible

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Speaker 2: than any serious investment.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: This is kind of on the quirk ear, more esoteric

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Speaker 2: side of alternative investing. But that's okay, especially if you're

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Speaker 2: a fan of pinball. So during COVID, you know, people

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Speaker 2: stuck at home, the value of pinballm machines, along with

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Speaker 2: many other collectibles, started to rise. It has since come

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Speaker 2: down in the wake of COVID, but it's still is

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Speaker 2: you know, as far as collectibles go, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: kind of you can you can do worse. It's the

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Speaker 2: interesting thing I think with this market is that it's

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Speaker 2: really this is a very practical collectible. So what I

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Speaker 2: mean by that is a lot of collectibles, let's let's

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Speaker 2: say baseball cards, for example, you really can't do much

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Speaker 2: with them other than you know, store them, display them,

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Speaker 2: and that's about it. But you can't really like touch them,

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Speaker 2: you can't really feel them, right, But pinball's not like that.

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Speaker 2: No one cares about new inbox pinball machines like this

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Speaker 2: market is an act of playing market, right, So it's

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Speaker 2: expected that these are used, and you know, you want

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Speaker 2: to make sure they're in good condition. But it's okay

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Speaker 2: to play these things and then resell them. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's definitely, you know, it's on the quirkier side of

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Speaker 2: alternative investing more of a collectible, but it's definitely a

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Speaker 2: fun one.

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Speaker 1: Is there a much of a market for them?

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Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three, there were twenty six thousand pinball

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Speaker 2: machines that changed hands, So yeah, it's bigger than you

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Speaker 2: think you know it's it's you know, I was surprised

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Speaker 2: because there's actually in Australia between Melbourne and Adelaide, on

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Speaker 2: a dusty road in nil there's a place called the

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Speaker 2: Australian Pinball Museum. And so on a recent trip from

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Speaker 2: Melbourne to Adelaide actually dropped by and stopped in and

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Speaker 2: said hi to the owner of Lindon and he was

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Speaker 2: you know, he's got all sorts of stuff in there.

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Speaker 2: He's got stuff from going back to nineteen thirty one,

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Speaker 2: some of the first pinball machines ever made, even before

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Speaker 2: they have you know, flippers, and he's got all the

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Speaker 2: modern stuff and everything. And this guy's a walking, talking,

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Speaker 2: you know, encyclopedia of pinball knowledge. So yeah, he's got

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Speaker 2: a lot of the stats. He understands this market very well.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, it's bigger than you think it has. You know,

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Speaker 2: if you're not into the if you're not into pinball,

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Speaker 2: you may not you may think it's kind of niche,

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Speaker 2: and maybe it is, but there's a lot of fans

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Speaker 2: and in fact, one of the biggest fans in the

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Speaker 2: world is it is actually Slash from Guns n' Roses.

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Speaker 1: Oh really, Yeah, So.

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Speaker 2: Slash is a huge pinball fan, and Linden was telling

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Speaker 2: me a funny story where the Guns N' Roses pinball

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Speaker 2: machine is one of many rock and roll pinball machines

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Speaker 2: which have come up in recent years, and the manufacturer

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Speaker 2: was having trouble securing the music rights actually for Live

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Speaker 2: and Let Die, which they wanted to use in the game,

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Speaker 2: and so they called Slash and knowing he was of

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Speaker 2: such a big pinball fan, and Slash says, hang on,

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Speaker 2: let me make a few calls. He calls Paul McCartney.

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Speaker 2: Ten minutes later, apparently it's in the game now. You

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Speaker 2: can see it on YouTube. It's really cool.

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Speaker 1: Are there particular pinball machines that are more popular than others? These?

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Speaker 1: There a holy grial of pinball machines. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, unfortunately, this is a market where vintage does not

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Speaker 2: mean value generally speaking. So the old stuff, the kids

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Speaker 2: just don't want to play that stuff. They don't really

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Speaker 2: It's cool for a museum, it's cool for serious collectors,

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Speaker 2: but it doesn't really appreciate. The biggest selling game of

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Speaker 2: all time is the Adams Family Family Game, and really

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Speaker 2: it's the nineties and up what they call the Dot

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Speaker 2: matrix display era and those are the ones that really matter.

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Speaker 2: It's really this market is really again it's all about playing,

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Speaker 2: So it really what matters is how fun is the

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Speaker 2: game to play? That's what really matters.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So how do you invest in them? You just

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Speaker 1: go and buy I want to go down to nil

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Speaker 1: and pick one up, or.

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Speaker 2: They don't sell them in Nil. Unfortunately, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of you know, Facebook groups and stuff like that. The

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Speaker 2: best place to go, aside from like Facebook groups, classified

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Speaker 2: auctions and stuff like that, is basically just go to

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Speaker 2: a States sale, right, So, like it's not uncommon, you know,

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Speaker 2: to go to a States sale and there's one or

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Speaker 2: two pins and you know they're just sitting around collecting

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Speaker 2: dust in the basement. And that's how you get them

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Speaker 2: for a song. You know, that's that's the best way

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Speaker 2: to acquire.

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Speaker 1: And can they be fixed? I mean it's a really

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Speaker 1: dumb question right now. It's a collectible not an investment,

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Speaker 1: so there's lots of risks, but it's about being collectible,

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Speaker 1: not investing. So I get that, But can you fix

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Speaker 1: a pinball machine?

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Speaker 2: There's a whole ecosystem for pinball maintenance. Absolutely, you know,

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Speaker 2: they a lot of the proceeds from the nonprofit Australian

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Speaker 2: Pinball Museum. They go towards acquisition, but they also go

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Speaker 2: to maintenance. They do break they have moving parts and yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's definitely there's definitely pinball maintenance folks out there. For sure.

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Speaker 1: No one takes me down rabbit holes like you, Stefan,

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Speaker 1: and all my interviews I do, however many I do

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Speaker 1: every year I talk about the weirdest stuff with you.

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Speaker 1: That's a compliment. Thank you, Thanks for being part of today, Jess.

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Speaker 1: That was Stefan von Imoff from Alternative Investing community fund

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Speaker 1: alts dot co. Remember to get your own independent advice

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Speaker 1: before making decisions. This is Fear and Greed's Summer investing series,

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Speaker 1: brought to you by vant Vantam automates compliance for frameworks

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Speaker 1: off Advanta dot com. Slash Fear and Greed. I'm Sean Almer,

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Speaker 1: enjoying your day