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Speaker 1: Let's have a chat about transport and we'll start with

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Speaker 1: the scooters. Robert Simms has been leading a transport inquiry

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Speaker 1: in State Parliament and having a look at transport options

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Speaker 1: moving forward. The government announcing yesterday it's going to change

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Speaker 1: the regulations around EA scooters. Let's start with that point.

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Speaker 1: Robert Sims from the Greens.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Good morning, Matthew.

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Speaker 1: So personally, scooters now can be written on roads or

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Speaker 1: will be shortly, I suppose in a little while from

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Speaker 1: now on roads twenty five k's an hour tops and

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Speaker 1: fifteen k's and our remains the rule on footpaths.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. We've sort of had a really strange

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Speaker 2: situation here in South Australia over the last few years.

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Speaker 2: In fact, I think it's four years when we've had

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Speaker 2: a scooters that have been a trialed where you can

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Speaker 2: actually use them in certain council areas and you can

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Speaker 2: hire them, but if you buy one yourself, you can

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Speaker 2: use it on your own private property, but you can't

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Speaker 2: use it on footpaths and roads. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: been a very confusing situation for South Australians because you know,

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Speaker 2: you kind of think, well, if it's legal to buy it,

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Speaker 2: how is it not legal to use it? So we

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Speaker 2: do welcome the government taking action on this, but of

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Speaker 2: course I want to look at the detail of any

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Speaker 2: legislation as well to make sure that they've got the

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Speaker 2: balance right.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that is going to change, and I suppose

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Speaker 1: for any pedestrian on a footpath. It's especially around the

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Speaker 1: city area, although this will be across the state I imagine,

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Speaker 1: but certainly in the city status quo as to what

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Speaker 1: we've had over the last four or five years.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's right, And actually one of the things that

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Speaker 2: came through very strongly in the inquiry was that if

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Speaker 2: you allow personal use of these scooters, or people to

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Speaker 2: use their own scooters that they've bought themselves, they're much

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Speaker 2: more likely to take care of it. That part of

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Speaker 2: the problem we have at the moment is people hire

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Speaker 2: them and they kind of treat them as a bit

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Speaker 2: of a novelty and you know, it's all a bit

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Speaker 2: of fun, and they're not taking responsibility necessarily for their

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Speaker 2: ep scooter, Whereas if you've spent a few thousand bucks

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Speaker 2: on it, you're much more likely to worry about it

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Speaker 2: and take care with it and be a bit more

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Speaker 2: vigilant potentially, So that's one of the benefits that flowed

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Speaker 2: in other jurisdictions where they're allowed for private ownership.

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Speaker 1: And given that the people who have bought them aren't

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Speaker 1: going up and down their driveway with them there, they're

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Speaker 1: using them on the roads already and have been for ages,

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Speaker 1: it makes so much sense now at least it's consistent

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Speaker 1: I suppose with reality.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly that that's our view. And you know, also

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Speaker 2: it does reduce carbon emissions and it also reduces congestion too,

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Speaker 2: which I think is good. And they're really good in

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Speaker 2: the city kind of area and outskirts where people can

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Speaker 2: dip around. There is, though, I think an important consideration,

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Speaker 2: and that is we want to make sure that pedestrians

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Speaker 2: are protected as well, and footpaths have got to be

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Speaker 2: safe for pedestrians too, and I think that's good that

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Speaker 2: the government set a fifty kilometer an hour speed limit

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Speaker 2: on their use on footpaths to ensure that they're actually

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Speaker 2: going to be operating in a much slower level in

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Speaker 2: that environment.

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Speaker 1: Fifteen. Yeah, absolutely. Now, a few other things you're calling

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Speaker 1: for and have been for a while. More bus services

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Speaker 1: around the suburbs of adelaide, simplifying concessions, improving connectivity. We've

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Speaker 1: spoken before about free public transport and be interesting to

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Speaker 1: see if something like that happens in the budget. Should

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Speaker 1: the two section rule that we used to operate under,

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Speaker 1: where if you were taking a shorter trip it was

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Speaker 1: hard to police. I suppose why it was removed. But

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Speaker 1: you take a short trip these days on a bus

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Speaker 1: or tram or train costs you the same as if

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Speaker 1: you sit on the bus for an hour and travel

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Speaker 1: fifty k's as opposed to traveling one or two.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that hasn't made since that. This doesn't

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Speaker 2: make sense to me. I mean, obviously the Greens have

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Speaker 2: been calling for public transport to be free, but I

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Speaker 2: don't know why we can't move to the kind of

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Speaker 2: model that they have in other states where you swipe

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Speaker 2: your card when you get on, your swipe when you

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Speaker 2: get off, and you pay per unit and sounds straight. Really,

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Speaker 2: I think lagging behind in that regard and I think

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Speaker 2: actually it just demonstrates the approach of this government when

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Speaker 2: it comes to public transport. I mean, this inquiry concluded

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Speaker 2: more than twelve months ago. We handed down our report

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Speaker 2: in February of last year, and you know the Minister

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Speaker 2: has still not met with me to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: That the only recommendation that the Government had acted upon

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Speaker 2: is the recommendation related to Eastcooters. Look, that's good, but

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of other things that need to be

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Speaker 2: looked at here in terms of improving our transport network.

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Speaker 2: We need an actual integrated transport plan for South Australia.

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Speaker 2: We need more separated cycling infrastructure, public transport needs to

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Speaker 2: be improved across the board, and particularly we need to

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Speaker 2: see better frequency connectivity. All of these things need to

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Speaker 2: be looked at, and I think in a cost of

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Speaker 2: living crisis it's really important because it's very costly to

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Speaker 2: run a car and we should be making it as

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Speaker 2: easy as possible for people to use the alternative.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed, I know you're calling for train trials to

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Speaker 1: Mount Barker and using that although and look broadly supportive

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Speaker 1: of that, except for the fact that if I lived

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Speaker 1: in Mount Barker and having had a look at timetables

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Speaker 1: when they used to run there, and certainly from Bridgewater

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Speaker 1: as well, when trains used to go that far, it

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Speaker 1: was a sixty four minute trip from Bridgewater, So I've

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Speaker 1: on live further out at Mount Barker, knowing the line

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Speaker 1: takes me through Balhanna, which is in the complete wrong

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Speaker 1: direction for a short distance there, and then around Eden Hills,

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Speaker 1: again in the wrong way heading to Adelaide. So it's

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Speaker 1: a lengthy trip from Mount Barker. There's no way I'd

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Speaker 1: be sitting in a train for, you know, seventy five

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Speaker 1: eighty minutes from the Mount to get into Adelaide when

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Speaker 1: I can drive in twenty five.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I'm not sure about how long it takes.

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Speaker 2: I think i'd heard it was slightly less than an hour.

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Speaker 2: But in any case, you know, there are people that

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Speaker 2: do quite long train trips, say to the southern suburbs.

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Speaker 2: There's the train to Normunger. I think it takes about

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Speaker 2: forty five minutes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's a long distance as the bird flies,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it's a straight line as opposed to

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Speaker 1: the Mount Barker line you're zigzagging back and forth.

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Speaker 2: I take your point. But then again, you know, people

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Speaker 2: often spend a lot of time in traffic too, and

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Speaker 2: that can be very frustrating, not to mention all the

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Speaker 2: costs associated with parking, particularly if you'll stay driving from

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Speaker 2: Mount Parker and then you've got to pay for a

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Speaker 2: car park in the city and so you know, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of benefits. It was pretty disappointing to see

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Speaker 2: in the federal budget came out the other day that

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Speaker 2: South Australia has been totally totally neglected when it comes

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Speaker 2: to rail and you know, I'd really like to see

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Speaker 2: the state government step up and push to make that

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Speaker 2: a priority because at the moment they're just all over

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Speaker 2: the shop in terms of transport policy. They talk about

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Speaker 2: wanting to deal with the environment, but they're not looking

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Speaker 2: at carbon emissions as a serious part of the equation

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Speaker 2: when it comes to reducing emissions.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Robert Simms, thank you for your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Matthew, stay warm, it's very cold out there.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, thank you. Harold Scruby, CEO Pedestrian Council of Australia

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Speaker 1: on the East scooter issue. We've spoken about this before. Harold,

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Speaker 1: good morning and thanks for your time. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: what you said on this. I suppose no change as

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Speaker 1: far as footpaths are concerned, but they're going to be

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Speaker 1: on the roads as well now and up to twenty

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Speaker 1: five k's.

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Speaker 3: Excuse me that really these people are in La La Land.

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Speaker 3: Let me give you a couple of quick facts. They

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Speaker 3: love the idea of these eastcooters. They think it's going

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Speaker 3: to save the world and you know we won't have

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Speaker 3: any problems with global warning warming because of them. But

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Speaker 3: if you actually look at the facts, I'd love the

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Speaker 3: Greens to have a look at the facts. Number one,

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Speaker 3: in a study done in Victoria about people admitted to

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Speaker 3: hospitals from etcooter crashes, fifty eight percent were intoxicated. Fifty

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Speaker 3: eight Now that doesn't include drugs, just alcohol, so you

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Speaker 3: can imagine what's going on out there.

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Speaker 1: But the drink drive lords apply on those, don't they.

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Speaker 1: So if you've got a license, really.

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Speaker 3: Well, the problem is they can't random breakfast them. Look

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Speaker 3: here's a problem.

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Speaker 1: But if you crash though, they take your blood alcohol,

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Speaker 1: don't they.

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Speaker 3: That's always after the fact. You see, with a motor

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Speaker 3: vehicle they can random read test here. They cannot do

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Speaker 3: it with a bicycle or an e scooter. It gets worse.

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Speaker 3: Now here's the part I think we should all be

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Speaker 3: sort of asking a question about. We've worked closely with

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Speaker 3: Vision Australia and some people in people who represent people

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Speaker 3: with hearing disabilities. Can I just read this one line?

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Speaker 3: In twenty twenty one, Vision Australia conducted a client survey

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Speaker 3: to assess the impact of electric personal mobility vehicles and

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Speaker 3: found that almost ninety percent of people who are blind

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Speaker 3: or who have low vision feel less safe when working

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Speaker 3: on footpaths, and sixty two percent have been involved in

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Speaker 3: an accident or near miss with an e scooter or

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Speaker 3: e bike. We're calling everything now e rideable because this

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Speaker 3: technology is branching off into so many different areas. Now's

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Speaker 3: you that we've got to start trying to understand where

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Speaker 3: it's heading because governments and law and legislation just cannot

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Speaker 3: keep up with it. Yeah, and we're now creating I

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Speaker 3: love that expression. But the man from Green's, Robert, said

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Speaker 3: footpaths have to be safe for pedestrians as well. I

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Speaker 3: like that. Don't you think that's a lovely start? There

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Speaker 3: are two words, their foot and parts. We were here first,

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Speaker 3: but suddenly now they're actually even considering that we exist.

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Speaker 1: Well before e bikes really came along, we've allowed people

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Speaker 1: to ride bikes on footpaths here in South Australia for

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Speaker 1: I suppose about ten maybe more years now so it's

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Speaker 1: not a new thing.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but the problem is that the technology. Have you

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Speaker 3: got the problem with these what they call the fat

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Speaker 3: boys the fat bike No, we don't think. Oh look

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Speaker 3: in Sydney now they are just everywhere. They're all illegal.

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Speaker 3: And what they do. You can flick a switch and

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Speaker 3: turn them into a motorbike which will do fit each

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Speaker 3: kilometers an hour without peddling. And here's the thing that

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Speaker 3: most of the advocates of this technology forget, and I'll

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Speaker 3: read a quote from John Usher from Britain. By swapping

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Speaker 3: active travel for e scooters, we're removing the health benefits

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Speaker 3: that come from walking or cycling those journeys. This decline

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Speaker 3: in physical activity will not only impact our health, but

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Speaker 3: it can have an economic impact on the city. So

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Speaker 3: here are these greens and all the people who've got

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Speaker 3: that warm in the globe they're looking. They're forgetting all

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Speaker 3: the major problems. They're forgetting the people with disabilities, they're

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Speaker 3: forgetting the number of people who are riding inebriated or intoxicated.

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Speaker 3: And they're forgetting that we're now taking over walking. See,

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Speaker 3: if you cycle, you're at least physically active. If you

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Speaker 3: hop on an e Scotio, the new ones. You're not

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Speaker 3: even walking to where you used to be able to

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Speaker 3: hire them. You are getting on your own outside your

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Speaker 3: front door. You're riding to your destination. You are not

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Speaker 3: exerting any physical activity at all.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's a line from Utopia the series that says

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Speaker 1: to one of the characters coming into work on an

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Speaker 1: e scooter, I'm just working on my core. But I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that well.

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Speaker 3: That sums it up. I'm trying to look at the

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Speaker 3: face of the Greens and all these advocates of this

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Speaker 3: so called they're all calling it active transport. It couldn't

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Speaker 3: be more inactive. We've got a logo, Matthew that shows

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Speaker 3: the evolution of man and as the man who starts

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Speaker 3: to stand up, he hops onderneath and the last bit

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Speaker 3: is his giant and fat. And this is apart from

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Speaker 3: all the costs in the hospital. Just imagine, give five

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Speaker 3: to ten years ahead, what are we going to look like?

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Speaker 3: What are our city? We won't want? You see the

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Speaker 3: other side of this is elderly people, people with disabilities.

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Speaker 3: They're not going to want to have a walk on

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Speaker 3: the footpath. Why should we have to be concerned about

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Speaker 3: someone riding behind us on any form of vehicle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, as a bike comes up and you find

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Speaker 1: this walking through a park, you know they'll just zoom pass.

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Speaker 1: You've got no idea they're coming. And so there is

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Speaker 1: that too. But all right, Harold, really appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Got to leave it there. Thank you. Harold Screwby, CEO

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Speaker 1: Pedestrian Council of Australia vincentarsis called in Shadow Transport Minister,

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Speaker 1: Shadow minister.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, good morning mats Aginci.

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Speaker 1: Listen and your point of view on e scooters or

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Speaker 1: transport in general.

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Speaker 4: I was listening really carefully to the last caller. Look,

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Speaker 4: he raises a number of valid points. Of course, you've

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Speaker 4: got to consider all road us, all road users at

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Speaker 4: the fact. But in terms of these east scooters, I

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Speaker 4: mean e scooters are here. You can go into a

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Speaker 4: shop right now, you can buy the people are buying

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Speaker 4: them and right now, unfortunately, some people are using them illegally.

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Speaker 4: So as legislators, we've got to confront that and we've

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Speaker 4: got to create I think, what is a safe regulatory framework.

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Speaker 4: Now we had this legislation locked and loaded and ready

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Speaker 4: to go over a year ago. Now the government said

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Speaker 4: no we have to do a survey. That they did

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Speaker 4: a survey. It was over eighty percent support for these

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Speaker 4: devices to be used. So we know that the public

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Speaker 4: all in all on balance want these out there. They

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Speaker 4: are using them, so we do need to now come

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Speaker 4: to the table and come up with a safe regulatory

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Speaker 4: framework that does consider not only the scooter users but

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Speaker 4: also pedestrians and other vehicle users as well. In terms

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Speaker 4: of the breathcasting is a really interesting point. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I think that should be one of the first questions

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Speaker 4: that is asked at the committee stage when the government

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Speaker 4: actually brings this legislation forward. The Minister now says that

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Speaker 4: he'll bring it in during July of this year, so

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Speaker 4: we'll look forward to that. But at any stage, if

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Speaker 4: anyone has any concerns, you know, please feel free to

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Speaker 4: get in contact and we'll make sure that we flesh

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Speaker 4: out these issues in the debate to make sure that

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Speaker 4: we end up with the best result possible. But as

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Speaker 4: I said, these devices are here, people are out there

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Speaker 4: buying them right now, and so it's up to us

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Speaker 4: as legislators they're now to come up with this safe

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Speaker 4: regulatory framework.

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Speaker 1: Well that's the reality of it, So all right, Vincentazi

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Speaker 1: appreciate your call. Thank you,