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Speaker 1: Him Boris and this is straight talk.

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Speaker 2: We've never seen anything like this in human history where

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Speaker 2: a search engine is so utuly dominant on how we

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Speaker 2: put our information, and so it's unprecedented and terrifying in

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Speaker 2: a sense that whatever you type in it's been controlled.

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Speaker 1: Then English straight talk made great to be here. If

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Speaker 1: you're the editor in chief of the Daily Telegraph or

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Speaker 1: All Things Telegraph, what does ben English actually do?

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Speaker 2: You're doing the meeting things at once. That's the way

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Speaker 2: it is with a modern newspaper. We don't hold anything back.

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Speaker 2: The industry that's actually in the fight of its life

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Speaker 2: against an onslaught of social media that has no interest

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Speaker 2: in Australian society, has no interest in our welfare. And

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Speaker 2: it's just interesting. The attention economy, very untrusting in politicians.

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Speaker 2: There's got to be something. What's the hidden agenda here?

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Speaker 1: That would be the least trusted people I think in

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Speaker 1: next country.

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Speaker 2: Maybe next to me, But yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: Been English finally well and straight talk made great to

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Speaker 1: be here. And I think the last time we caught

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Speaker 1: up was in It's like I'm skuting was in Vegas?

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Speaker 1: Is that a great restaurant? Actually? Nick was holding a

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Speaker 1: put together a little gathering of people for a Greek

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Speaker 1: restaurant in the Greek restaurant in Vegas and a number

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Speaker 1: of people there, but we won't disclose it was there,

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Speaker 1: but you and I were there, and I remember Nick

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Speaker 1: went to a lot of trouble with the I don't

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Speaker 1: call him the chef or whatever it is. And I

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Speaker 1: think it was lost on a lot of people because

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Speaker 1: one of the guests who was sitting there, actually I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to eat some of the food and all

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Speaker 1: he wanted to eat was steak and chips.

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Speaker 2: You guess who that was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And poor Nick, he was like a kid to

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Speaker 1: know what to say. Look on his face. I don't mean,

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Speaker 1: don't worry. Let him have it. It doesn't matter. But

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Speaker 1: you've got a lot of trouble.

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Speaker 3: I I he puts thorts into things, and like you

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Speaker 3: wonder how people that and then you deal with these

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Speaker 3: people like obviously you have the burdocks in your life,

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Speaker 3: but these individuals are.

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Speaker 1: So incredibly busy and so incredibly successful and so wealthy.

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Speaker 1: Yet they here's a small dinner which probably was getting

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Speaker 1: organized for three days. The detail, like you know, I

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Speaker 1: someone like Nick, and we're talking about Nick Politus, otherwise

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Speaker 1: known as Uncle Nick, the chairman of the Rooster's team club.

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Speaker 1: He told me, it's very interesting. Ronnie Coot, as you know,

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Speaker 1: was recently inducted into the NRLs call or actually as

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Speaker 1: an immortal, as an immortal at fourteenth or something like that,

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Speaker 1: I know which one he was. But and it was

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Speaker 1: a long time coming coming for Ronnie cult and of

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Speaker 1: course Running played for the Roosters and he played for

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Speaker 1: Souse and which is a pretty big transition between the

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Speaker 1: two clubs. But Nick told me, I said to Nick

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Speaker 1: after announced, literally the day after it was announced, have

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Speaker 1: you got Ron's new number? Because he's not answering my text.

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Speaker 1: Turn out I saw a run on the weekend of

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Speaker 1: the reason in an answer my text, he told me

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Speaker 1: it's because he's got four hundred text. He just overwhelming

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Speaker 1: and Ronnie's just ton eighty. But Nick told me the

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Speaker 1: day after that he'd already written a letter and Senator

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Speaker 1: to ron he wrote a letter, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: why would you runt out to write a letter? Who

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Speaker 1: reads letters these days? And you know when you can

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Speaker 1: go on text? Well, actually, if a letter arrives at

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Speaker 1: me and I've got four hundred texts, but if I

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Speaker 1: get a letter, I'll read a letter. And I thought, wow,

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Speaker 1: how insightful is that. I don't hopefully I'm giving him

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Speaker 1: his dues and I'm not over over egging the whole

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Speaker 1: of his situation. But for me, I thought, that's a

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Speaker 1: pretty thoughtful process.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the art letter writing is rapidly getting lost, but.

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Speaker 1: It becomes much more special because of that.

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Speaker 2: Totally. It's the same with me. I remember the letters

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Speaker 2: that I received, handritch letters. There's sometimes some that you

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Speaker 2: don't want to read, but there's there's some really special

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Speaker 2: ones I've received over the years and they stick out

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Speaker 2: in my mind.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm the same I and I. When my parents

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Speaker 1: love I used to always make sure I wrote something

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Speaker 1: to them, like Father'sday, Monsday, with those types, birthdays, Christmas.

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Speaker 1: Made sure I wrote something in there, even if it

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Speaker 1: was one or two paragraphs. You come from this world,

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Speaker 1: the world of communicating through text, because you're the editor

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Speaker 1: in chief of the Daily Telegraph for all things Telegraph,

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Speaker 1: because a Daily Telegraph today incorporates the Sunday Telegraph too,

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Speaker 1: So everything everything that the Telegraph Group produces a digitally

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Speaker 1: and the physical form too. Well, it is your fault,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about not being able to

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Speaker 1: get hands on well, the phasing out of newspapers, because

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Speaker 1: I actually still like to get a newspaper you're not alone,

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Speaker 1: at least once a week. I like to read it

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Speaker 1: once week if possible. If I'm an aeroplane, I actually

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Speaker 1: like to thumb through the paper on the aeroplane, mainly

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Speaker 1: because harder to get off your your device. But as

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Speaker 1: the editor of the group, what does Ben English actually do? So?

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Speaker 1: Is it like the old I think his name is

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Speaker 1: Peter Finch in the remember that movie what was it

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Speaker 1: called The Network? He's sort of sitting there and they're

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Speaker 1: all in the room and you're sitting down and saying, well,

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Speaker 1: we're going to write a story about that, and your

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Speaker 1: story is crap. You know, what does the editor do?

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Speaker 1: What do you do physically? Do there?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a bit of that, still still a

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Speaker 2: bit of that. Yeah, I mean I'm not I'm on

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Speaker 2: the tools from about when I say on the tools,

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Speaker 2: I'm actually looking at the pages on a screen from

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Speaker 2: about five pm till eight pm and we go to

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Speaker 2: we go to press. But you know, you're doing a

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Speaker 2: million things at once. That's the way it is with

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Speaker 2: a modern newspaper's of my time.

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Speaker 1: You used to have your deadline, and it was because

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Speaker 1: you had to print the paper. Obviously you had to

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Speaker 1: get all the stories actually loaded up onto the print

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Speaker 1: or whatever it was in the print. So the used bit,

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Speaker 1: I don't five or six o'clock.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you it's it's really similar.

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Speaker 1: But now but now it's sort of a bit more continual.

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Speaker 1: Because there's something new comes up at nine o'clock, you've

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Speaker 1: got to put it up.

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Speaker 2: We don't hold anything back, right, so there's not a story.

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Speaker 2: It's funny. The only it's because it's a complete anachronism

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Speaker 2: to hold the story back for print. Yeah, basically because

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Speaker 2: it just gets ripped off anyway and put up some

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Speaker 2: radio whatever. It just gets ripped off. So we've given

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Speaker 2: up that long ago. We don't hold anything back for

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Speaker 2: the paper. The only time we do is when we're

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Speaker 2: required to by say, if we get a what we

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Speaker 2: call a drop, So we get a story from the

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Speaker 2: government or from another source and they said it's embargoed

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Speaker 2: right until five am, which means you can, you know,

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Speaker 2: you can put it to print and it hits the

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Speaker 2: streets at five am. But you can't put it up online.

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Speaker 2: And the reason they do that is because they haven't

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Speaker 2: caught up with us. I mean, we're one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: digital and we basically reverse publish, if you like, back

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Speaker 2: into print. Everything's front loaded into digital. And now the

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Speaker 2: next sort of evolution is into video. So we are

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Speaker 2: breaking our stories now by video.

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Speaker 1: How do you mean like it's more like television.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean we've got our own Wi frame

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Speaker 2: on our app now, which is called DTTV. And you

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Speaker 2: know there's a little button on your app click on

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Speaker 2: it and there's a whole there's thirty three stories which

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Speaker 2: get refreshed quite frequently. We've got a five o'clock bulletin

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Speaker 2: a video and we break news of video. Our reporters

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Speaker 2: are not only writing stories, but they're actually presenting them

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Speaker 2: on videot But.

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Speaker 1: It's competing with television then to some extent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it is. It's competing with appointment media, yes,

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Speaker 2: six PM users, so yeah, we have a loderate five

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Speaker 2: But we're also breaking news on video throughout the day.

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Speaker 2: But we're not necessarily trying to disrupt some of them

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Speaker 2: so much as to disrupt ourselves before we get disrupted.

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Speaker 2: If we just stand still, we'll get run over. So

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Speaker 2: we have to keep on evolving our storytelling.

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Speaker 1: And they are too, by the way, they're using digital

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Speaker 1: to keep breaking stories themselves. There waiting to the six

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Speaker 1: Scotch News. Oh yeah, they're going to have the nine

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Speaker 1: apt for example. And by the time I get home,

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Speaker 1: and if I get home in time for the six

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Speaker 1: scock News, I've already seen it all you have either

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Speaker 1: through you guys, through news dot com or through the

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Speaker 1: nine news whatever is on you know apput and I

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Speaker 1: got seven, I've got all of them. Yeah, and there

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Speaker 1: are other places, by the way, break news like the

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Speaker 1: Daly Os. Yes, for example, we've been doing it for

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Speaker 1: a long time. They break it in text, that's right,

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Speaker 1: which sort of like for a period there during COVID,

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Speaker 1: I was actually very interested in what they were doing.

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Speaker 1: But I must say I do prefer to get the

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Speaker 1: video version now.

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Speaker 2: Oh you know, increasingly that's how people need to want

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Speaker 2: to digest it, need to digest it. It doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: we give up on text. It just becomes more multilayered.

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Speaker 2: What we've discovered is two things. Number One, our journos

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Speaker 2: are actually really good on camera. We never expected that

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Speaker 2: Prince jurnos would actually be pretty good. They're quite articulate.

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Speaker 2: I would say that our print yurnos have a deeper subject,

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Speaker 2: better knowledge. So that's their comparative advantage over not disparaging

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Speaker 2: TV journals at all. But a lot of the time

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Speaker 2: they've got, you know, they move from subject to subject

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Speaker 2: and since you've got a scripted product that they're presenting,

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Speaker 2: whereas our print heurnos, they go deep and so that's

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Speaker 2: what they've got. So my remit to them is to say, listen,

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Speaker 2: just just talk to the camera as you're talking to me.

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Speaker 2: If you're briefing me about a story, what's really going on,

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Speaker 2: so you know, just lift the kimono on whatever this

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Speaker 2: story is. And the second thing is that our readers

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Speaker 2: love it because we're sort of taking inside a newsroom

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Speaker 2: and there's still a fascin with that. People still want

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Speaker 2: to know. Like you said, your first question off the

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Speaker 2: that is what do you do? Like how does it work?

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Speaker 2: And I still haven't answered that yet. I will, I've

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Speaker 2: been waiting for you. I'll get there. But but but

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Speaker 2: we take them inside the news room and so we've

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Speaker 2: shown our conference. So that's another important element of every day,

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Speaker 2: we sit down with our key leaders and there's probably

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Speaker 2: about eight or ten of us and we talk through

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Speaker 2: we've got it. We've got what we call a topic plan.

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Speaker 2: We go through those stories and how do you mean.

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Speaker 1: Use is okay? Politics? Sport? Business? Is that what you're

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Speaker 1: talking about?

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Speaker 2: All of that?

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Speaker 1: You've got crime crime?

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: So you've got the categories they actually like actually probably

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Speaker 1: de marked in other words, this is category one. We

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Speaker 1: must cover sport. And then within sport there are Rugby

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Speaker 1: League and AFL and all of the n LW or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and you do that like really structured way.

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Speaker 2: We do so, yeah, it is structured. You know, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of chaos and there's stories coming at you

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Speaker 2: all the time, but you have to have that structure.

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Speaker 2: You have to have a lot of planning. There's a

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Speaker 2: hell of a lot of planning that goes into what

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Speaker 2: we do.

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Speaker 1: So is your time spent on the planning side of

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Speaker 1: things or is it more the tactical stuff sort of

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Speaker 1: saying shit, there's an newstry. We better talk about that

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Speaker 1: both both. So do you see pretty much everything?

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Speaker 2: Yep?

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Speaker 1: It goes up on a dashboard or something, does it? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: where do you guys have it, or you'd have a

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Speaker 1: dashboard or your teams have a dashboard.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we have Data Insights dashboard, which is a bit

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Speaker 2: of IP we've got called Verity, and that tells us

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Speaker 2: in real time what all of our readers are reading,

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Speaker 2: how long they're reading it, for what they're reading next,

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Speaker 2: and so that gives us some insights into where the

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Speaker 2: appetite is. Is a tool, it's not the only thing.

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Speaker 2: We've also got to use our own judgment because you know,

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Speaker 2: our acumen and judgment can sometimes still outstrips the computer,

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Speaker 2: if you like. In some respects used to be called

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Speaker 2: the tummy compass. So it's just sort of a combination

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Speaker 2: of both of those things. But increasingly where we're looking

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Speaker 2: to the data tools to help guide us in meeting

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Speaker 2: our consumer needs.

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Speaker 1: So Verity is it does Verity then also look at

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Speaker 1: everything else. Everything else that's up on the digital platforms,

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Speaker 1: for example, might look at something in the AFRs writing

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Speaker 1: it doesn't so.

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Speaker 2: We've got that as well. So and everyone's got these things.

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Speaker 2: They've got other tools called chart beat, chart Beast, there's

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Speaker 2: Adobe tools that give you a snapshot of what's happening elsewhere.

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Speaker 2: But you know, that's not as accurate as your internal tools.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, Ben, So, for example, if

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Speaker 1: somebody else another one of your competitive competitors, and there's

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Speaker 1: not that many, there's only really one in print, for example,

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Speaker 1: and there's an group, but do you does do you? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a good story. We're not talking about it. Do

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Speaker 1: you then? Does then, Ben English, go to someone over

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Speaker 1: the Can you go and chase that story? Do you

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Speaker 1: get to that level of detail it? Or do is

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Speaker 1: your system your dashboard actually direct so and so over there?

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Speaker 1: Go and do it anyway?

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Speaker 2: No, it's not there yet, right, but AI is coming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's more an AI thing. In other words,

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Speaker 1: this story has got a lot of gravity. It looks like,

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Speaker 1: you know, so many thousand people have sure read it

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Speaker 1: somewhere else, and it knows that, you know, buzz Phil

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Speaker 1: Raffil should be writing about it because he's he's sort

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Speaker 1: of sent me a retired buzz. But whoever is checking

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Speaker 1: his place? And where Michael, Yeah, g chase it. Well,

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Speaker 1: he probably already knows about it anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah he does. So sometimes you'll you'll have to make

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Speaker 2: a judgment if the story is big enough, if if

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Speaker 2: it's if actually it's you know, it's a seismic yarn

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Speaker 2: and you can't ignore it. Then you go, okay, we've

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Speaker 2: got it. We've got to beat them at it. We're

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Speaker 2: going to come up with an angle that takes it forward.

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Speaker 2: You can't just regurgitate what they're doing. If it's a

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Speaker 2: so so story, we'll ignore it. And because you know,

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Speaker 2: we'll try and we'll try and make our mark with

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Speaker 2: our own stories, and they do the same, they'll you know,

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Speaker 2: we might come up with some you know, compelling stories

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Speaker 2: and they'll ignore it because you know, we've already made

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Speaker 2: the ground with it. I think there should be more

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Speaker 2: of us supporting each.

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Speaker 1: Other as opposed to competing with each other.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think in many respects, I think it does.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing for for someone coming out of news Corp.

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Speaker 4: Too.

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Speaker 1: I've never thought to hear that collaboration not collaboration, but

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Speaker 1: whatever the word is, because you guys have been so

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Speaker 1: over the years, and let's face it, nine verses. Let's

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Speaker 1: go right Backpacker versus Murdock. Yeah, that has been an

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Speaker 1: age age long that generations goes back forever. Yeah, and like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, down to pitch battles on the Prince side.

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Speaker 4: Totally actually real, Yeah, totally for sure, real, like like

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Speaker 4: real battles of physic example, legurary. So it so it's

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Speaker 4: got to But.

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Speaker 1: Here you are saying, you know, maybe I don't know

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Speaker 1: who your equivalent is at nine, but you know, unless

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Speaker 1: maybe we should perhaps collabor not collaborate, but work together

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Speaker 1: a bit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'm friends with them and we talk all the time.

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Speaker 2: And I mean you've got to think about you were

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Speaker 2: talking about, you know, our only competitor in print is

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Speaker 2: is a Herald But of course, and that's true right

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Speaker 2: in Sydney at least, but it's our competitors, our competitors,

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Speaker 2: they go way beyond that.

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Speaker 1: It's all it's all the digital and time organizations.

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Speaker 2: Time is a competitor.

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Speaker 1: It competes with everybody. Yeah, yeah, my time, my media audience,

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Speaker 1: my time, because not only do you have lots of

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Speaker 1: other people putting the same stories, but.

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Speaker 2: You've got it. But coming back to sorry, it's coming

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Speaker 2: back to collaboration. We attack each other too much a

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Speaker 2: right time as guilty of it. We're all guilty of it.

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Speaker 2: The public doesn't. They just see attacks basically undermining the media.

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Speaker 2: Now we're in the fight of our life.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they care, by the way, they don't.

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Speaker 1: They don't care less about nine versus seven, or you

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Speaker 1: who's done what at seven or nine? You know, this

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Speaker 1: allegation about the head of news or you know, like

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Speaker 1: I won't say it's a but went on recently.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, if there's serious workplace issues that

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Speaker 2: are at stake here, I think, you know, there's no

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Speaker 2: problem with reporting on that. I guess what I'm talking

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Speaker 2: about is just having it. Taking cheap shots of each

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Speaker 2: other is not helpful to an industry that's actually in

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Speaker 2: the fight of its life against an onslaught of social

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Speaker 2: media that has no interest in alien society, has no

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Speaker 2: interest in our welfare. And it's just interesting. The attention

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Speaker 2: economy is rapacious, is actually gouging revenue, not paying back.

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Speaker 2: And you know, if we want journalism to exist, and

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Speaker 2: I think we all do, I think we. I think

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Speaker 2: even people who kind of you know, resent the media

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Speaker 2: at different times would recognize that the fourth estate plays

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Speaker 2: a vital role in maintaining a functioning, functioning community with democracy,

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Speaker 2: with a democracy at its heart, you need a functioning

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Speaker 2: you need a vital and you know, healthy media sector.

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Speaker 1: So when you say the fourth state, you're talking about media. Media.

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Speaker 2: That's an old fashioned term for the fourth state. It

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Speaker 2: goes back to the French Revolution.

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Speaker 1: But you're not referring to the big Titans. No, you're

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Speaker 1: not talking.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking more traditional mainstream Yeah, yeah, right, because we're

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Speaker 2: the ones who, like you know, we have for a

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Speaker 2: long time taken as part of our mission serving the

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Speaker 2: public interest and whatever that may be, you know, and

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Speaker 2: we may be misguided in what we think the public

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Speaker 2: interest is, but at least we pursue that, whereas I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure that well, I'm certain that that's not the

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Speaker 2: case with those social media giants.

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Speaker 1: So you take me through that then. So I quite

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Speaker 1: enamored by the fact that you said serving the public interest,

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Speaker 1: and that's quite a thoughtful comment. Is that mandated to

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Speaker 1: you from above? Does Lachlan say that, How does it work?

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Speaker 1: Or is it your shareholders? I mean, who says this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when you say, man, in a sense,

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Speaker 2: it's mandated above, in the sense of you know, the

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Speaker 2: Murdoch ethos, which goes back to Keith Murdoch Gallipoli and

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Speaker 2: then then what he did and you know, building from

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Speaker 2: the you know, the papers in Melbourne, and then Rupert

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Speaker 2: took up the cudgels of the News in Adelaide and

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Speaker 2: then the extraordinary career he's had sort of you know,

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Speaker 2: coursing through the ventricles of our country, of our company.

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Speaker 2: Is it is a set of values, set of principles,

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Speaker 2: and that informs us. That's the mandate from above that

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Speaker 2: I would I would be talking about. Those values would include,

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Speaker 2: but are not limited to, a skepticism of authority.

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Speaker 1: Would you call it indie authority?

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Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, that's reductive, But yeah, I would

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Speaker 2: say that's that's right. Yeah, definitely, definitely, definitely We're not

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Speaker 2: closing up to elites. That's something that that you know,

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Speaker 2: Lachlan's grandfather certainly embraced. Certainly again going back to the

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Speaker 2: Glipoli letters, it was about.

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Speaker 1: You take me through the Glipolar letters.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was Keith Murdock who actually lifted the lid

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Speaker 2: on the Glipolar campaign and reported back to our government

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Speaker 2: and it certainly, you know, I wrote some letters that

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Speaker 2: were pivotal in actually challenging the efficacy of that campaign

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Speaker 2: and basically saying that our kids, our young men, were

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Speaker 2: lamps the slaughter.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so in other words, as they're getting off

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Speaker 1: the various boats and things like coming landing on the beach.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, as you said, it was an ill conceived campaign.

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Speaker 2: It was very poorly executed, et cetera, etcetera. It's quite controversial,

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Speaker 2: but it was historical in the sense that and I

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Speaker 2: think this is one reason why Gallipoli is so so

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Speaker 2: you know, figure so large in the hearts of Australians

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Speaker 2: and also in the sense in our sense of nationhood,

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Speaker 2: is that it was the first time with forward as

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Speaker 2: a nation under under our flag. And it was also

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Speaker 2: there was that chism, There was that sense of happen

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Speaker 2: a minute, I was serving the empire here and have

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Speaker 2: we been betrayed of you know, you know, have we

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Speaker 2: been just led into this slaughterhouse? And so it was

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Speaker 2: the first time there was a sense of separatism, and

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Speaker 2: you know, Keith Murdock was was pivotal to all that,

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Speaker 2: and it was sort of those values of challenging orthodoxy,

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Speaker 2: challenging the those who are in authority or ordained to

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Speaker 2: be an authority that still is, you know, very much

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Speaker 2: at the forefront of our value system today.

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Speaker 1: You said something very interesting, you know, like I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say'm anty sorry but I don't like the system just

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Speaker 1: because it's a system. I tend to push against it.

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Speaker 1: You said, use the words elite or allitias. I'm not sure,

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Speaker 1: but the self appointed elites, which you know, it's a

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Speaker 1: big issue in America at the moment. So and you

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Speaker 1: know we've got we know what murder opposition is on that.

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Speaker 1: And and you know Republics first, the Democrats, and like

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Speaker 1: funny enough, you can go right back to the Civil War.

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Speaker 1: The Democrats come out of there from the South. They

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Speaker 1: come out of the Civil War, and the Republicans, so

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Speaker 1: they should because it actually was that's that's the slavers,

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Speaker 1: and that's sort of where that whole game originated. And

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Speaker 1: and I we're just moving along for because we want

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Speaker 1: to talk about Australia, your job. But but we have

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Speaker 1: something not too dissimilar Australian. I do remember the movie

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Speaker 1: Breaking Rain whatever, the first great Australian movies about the

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Speaker 1: Boll War, and which is when we got seent in

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Speaker 1: there to do someone was a bidding Gallipli's not dissimilar,

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Speaker 1: absolutely the same deal. And now I'm getting I'm getting

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Speaker 1: all energized by talking about this because you've hit me

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Speaker 1: right on a spot which is quite tender for me

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Speaker 1: in terms of the elites and who appoint themselves of

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Speaker 1: the so called self appointed moral dieticians of our society.

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Speaker 1: And that's how sweet spots too, And they prosecute the

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Speaker 1: ship out of it, and they make you feel guilty

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Speaker 1: if you're not part of the movement.

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Speaker 2: And that's like, I mean, that's what that's what we

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Speaker 2: rele against. That give us, that's that's what gives us

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Speaker 2: our purpose is actually exposing the hypocrisy because there's always

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Speaker 2: self interested at the heart of it. It's a lot

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Speaker 2: of we call them virtue signalers, you know, and there's

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of there's a lot of what I

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Speaker 2: call can't there's a lot of hypocrisy.

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Speaker 1: And as you see more.

433
00:23:55,040 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 2: Of it, it's industrialized. Yea, it looks like it's aroduction

434
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: line to me totally. And it's been monetized. So you

435
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 2: see that with various causes that people can see, well,

436
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 2: there's there's not to make a lot of money here.

437
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,719
Speaker 1: So would you, I mean, I know, I don't know this.

438
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just you know, you're the editor in

439
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: chief that you know what we all read every day

440
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: in New South Wales, Queensland through Corey Mail and Victoria

441
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: through the Herald Sun. The share the stories are all

442
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 1: shared pretty much. It's just one syndication that he writes, right.

443
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 2: Do you.

444
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: Are you interacting? I don't know if this is right

445
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: wrong on a daily basis with your your global chairman? Ah,

446
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: how does that work regularly?

447
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 2: Not on a daily basis?

448
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: So he doesn't say a mate, you know, this is

449
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 1: the We're just covering the election in the US. We

450
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: need much much more push or the strain lection which

451
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 1: is coming up with much more push against let's say

452
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: the Labor Party.

453
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 2: Interesting. A lot of people ask me that they wonder

454
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 2: about it. There's a sort of we call it Murdock

455
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 2: arrangement syndrome.

456
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: You know.

457
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 2: Does he ring up and say listen, I don't like that.

458
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 2: I don't like that brief on page eight No or

459
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 2: Lackland to that matter. But I do speak to Lachlan

460
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 2: a light because he's passionate about news. He's passionate about

461
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 2: Sydney and Australia. But I have to say a hand

462
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 2: on hard. He's never given me writing instructions on you

463
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 2: will have this position. He's more just curious about how we,

464
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 2: you know, what our take is on it. I think

465
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 2: what they're most passionate about is that we're running the

466
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 2: paper well and that the business has been run professionally,

467
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 2: and that we're actually, you know, in sync with our audience.

468
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 2: I think that and I don't think Rupert was any different.

469
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 2: Are we actually serving our audience?

470
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: So how do you work out what your audience wants?

471
00:25:59,800 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 2: Then?

472
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 1: I mean, because I've wondered about this, is that are

473
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: you is the media forging and molding public opinion and

474
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: serving it to the public, or is the public making

475
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: those decisions and requiring you to deliver what decision they've made?

476
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: A great question. I think it's both. I think the

477
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 2: way that we best influence sentiment opinion is by breaking stories,

478
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 2: you know, like by exposing things and which otherwise wouldn't

479
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: be known. That that is what shapes opinion. And then

480
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 2: and then of course the emphasis we give on different

481
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 2: stories that also shapes opinion too. So the front page.

482
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 2: I know that people, you know, talk about the decline

483
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: of print, but the front page still is an readibly

484
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: powerful instrument.

485
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: Is it as powerful on the digital version? So for example,

486
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: and I get I subscribe as outa teleograph. I actually

487
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: don't look at the front page. I mean, I see

488
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: what you say. You go some stories from the top

489
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: stories and assigned by newsletter, and I get that each

490
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: day and then constru I get two I get two emails,

491
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: ones from you, not to me, I mean as you

492
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: send everybody. But it's the sort of the same with

493
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: the stories after. And there's another one which is the

494
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: actual newspaper. But the front page is not that important

495
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: to me anymore. Yeah, digitally I'm talking about Yeah, digitally.

496
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: We it's interesting. COVID was a bit of a game

497
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: changer in terms of how people interact with the paper. Right,

498
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 2: so a lot more people started reading the paper. So

499
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 2: as it's printed online, so it's called we call it

500
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 2: a digital print edition. And you know, on your app

501
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 2: down the bottom it says today paper you click on

502
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 2: it up comes the paper as it was printed. So

503
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: so a lot of people do do that.

504
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: But I don't find that compelling.

505
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: The front page it's not as compelling, no, because there's

506
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 2: something about the tactile paper. Right, it's big for a start,

507
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:14,959
Speaker 2: it's a lot bigger than you can then you can

508
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 2: get on your phone.

509
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: Or you're right, Yeah, I use the phone.

510
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So so it doesn't have the same impact,

511
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 2: but we're still making money from the printed product. Wow,

512
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 2: good money on it, right, So.

513
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 1: Is that more cost control and it's opposed a lot

514
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: of career control.

515
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: But but also you know, there's you know, there's still

516
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: healthy advertising in print and it's still making a profit.

517
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: Well, Katie Page is being very generous to you, guys.

518
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 2: She's a great Katie you listening. She's a great person,

519
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 2: passionate about print. Obviously it works for her, so thank you,

520
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 2: for sure it does. And so look, obviously, and this

521
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 2: is no secret print you know circulation is in a

522
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: steady decline. It has been for thirty years actually, but

523
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: it's still still sell a lot of papers. The trick,

524
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: of course, and this is what everyone's trying to do

525
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: around the globe, is as that's declining, you get you

526
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: ramp up your digital engagement and consumption so that when

527
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: print runs out, you're still firing.

528
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: Do you think there will be a day? Because I

529
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: remember when Amazon came along and every bookstore in the

530
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: world closed down, and then all of a sudden, mysteriously

531
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: the bookstores started up. In fact, Amazon, that's so true.

532
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: Do you think there will come a day where we'll

533
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: have no newspaper physical or do you think that. I

534
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: don't want to call it romance, but whatever it is,

535
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: the tactile nature of having a newspaper will sort of

536
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: hit a level where it won't go below, maybe won't grow,

537
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: but a base level. Yeah, baseline.

538
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, the brutal comics will tell you that probably

539
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: there's no papers in twenty.

540
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: Years because there's no point in having that base on

541
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: because the cost of running the baseline. But you can't

542
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: do it anymore.

543
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: You've got all these fixed costs that you literally can't

544
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 2: justify it unless you say, well, it's a vanity product

545
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 2: that we do for brand or some marketing purposes. But

546
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 2: I think that when you get to that point, you're

547
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 2: going to by all means, you can create the DPE,

548
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 2: but you don't have to actually send it to the

549
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: print the print site. I think it'll be after I'm gone.

550
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: I think the papers are here for quite some time yet.

551
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, eventually it'll get to you know, three

552
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: a week, two a week, one a week, But that's

553
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 2: that's a way off.

554
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: Do you know I mean, I guess you do know this,

555
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: but do you have a an analytical sense or your

556
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: business doesn't have an analytical sense of the age and

557
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: end or generation is actually physically stood by the paper.

558
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: I know a lot of bitter about the Newsagian. I

559
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: feel sorry for news, but they don't click the data

560
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: for you. I mean you would know in terms of

561
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: what guests. We've got a pretty good idea. Yeah, and

562
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: how do you work that out? I mean it's I

563
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: mean not how do you work it out? But what

564
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: are you finding out? Are you finding out people over

565
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: sixty what we're looking at?

566
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's over sixty five? Yeah. I think the average

567
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: age print reader is about sixty eight.

568
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sometimes my age.

569
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. But look, you've got the project to keep them alive, right,

570
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: project one hundred.

571
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want them to go to one hundred and eight.

572
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: Well, we've got we need to support you in that.

573
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: Now, I'd like you to support me in that because

574
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: we actually together have the same the same interest toographic totally,

575
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: but because but what I'm really interested I know too,

576
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: by the way, is because Project one hundred is not

577
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: just about old people living to long ages, about younger

578
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: people become much more aware of it.

579
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

580
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know one of the things is really

581
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: important to us is younger people understanding how much money

582
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: they need to earn to live to one hundred, not

583
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: you know, because you know the current modeling and I'm

584
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: yet about to organize a actually to do this analysis

585
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: for me. But the current modeling as I understand the

586
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: model and inputs to the model, is that there's an

587
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: assumption someone's going to retire sixty five years of age

588
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: on an average income has for the last thirty five

589
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: years or since compulsory superinnovation we've got introduced by Keating

590
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: in the mid nineties, has been putting away in variable

591
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: amounts but between nine now twelve percent of their wages

592
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: into their employee's been doing this into a super fund.

593
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: Their super funds is assumption that they're earning eight percent

594
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: perannimal but of some other number. And the assumption is

595
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: that you die at eighty one, and the output is

596
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: that how much money do I have to have between

597
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: sixty five and eighty one to have nothing at the

598
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: day I die or enough to pay my funeral? And

599
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: that money's coming out of what I put away on

600
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: the assumption that had earned so much over that thirty

601
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: odd period period. And of course if all of a

602
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: sudden we now lived to one hundred, anyone who's lives

603
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: beyond ninety one is not going to have any money.

604
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: And I'm really passionate about that. And that's a big

605
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: education program.

606
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 2: It's enormous.

607
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: So what does say someone like your organization become passionate

608
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: about in terms of education programs for your readers, what

609
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: are you trying to educate them about? Are you trying

610
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: to educate them about democracy, how important democracy still is,

611
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: or you're trying to educate them about how important challenging

612
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: the elites is.

613
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: I think it's about certainly those things, but it's also

614
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 2: about enabling them to live their lives to the best

615
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: of their abilities.

616
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: So it's informing it's gone beyond where you used to

617
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: be very much. How can you live? Ben English are saying,

618
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: for example, to me a consumer mark, we will give

619
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: you stories absolutely that'll help you live longer and live

620
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: better and you and perhaps have a better life with

621
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: your family. And these are the things you need to know.

622
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: So it's such a great question, and it's something we've

623
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: been grappling with for some time. Is it how do

624
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: we how do we justify someone to subscribe to our product,

625
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 2: and it's not enough just to tell them what happened,

626
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 2: because you can get that anywhere, get that anyway. It's commoditized. Yeah, right,

627
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 2: so we've got to start increasingly tell them why, how,

628
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 2: and what's next?

629
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: Sunday. You used to have a mad dog yes section, Yeah, yeah,

630
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: the health yeah healthy, got the barefoot investor. Yeah, you

631
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: got him as well, Scott Scott Scott, So that's true,

632
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: that's true.

633
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: Right. So the papers have always served that, They've always

634
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 2: had that breadth, but we've got to reflect that in

635
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 2: our digital products as well. And that's why I love

636
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: your project one hundred. I think it's a fabulous concept.

637
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: It's a step beyond what those guys are doing.

638
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: Although I'm not paid to say that, genuinely think.

639
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: Thank good, but it is a step beyond that. And

640
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 1: we're working on getting a producer all that sort of stuff.

641
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: Are you seeing you? That's a pretty altruistic position for

642
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: you guys to take.

643
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 2: But it's not out of I mean, there's a selfishness

644
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: to it. And the selfishness is that unless we do that,

645
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 2: then people are not going to subscribe.

646
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: So so in other words, it's becoming nearly compulsory absolutely.

647
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 2: People are so demanding. They're so and they're promiscuous when

648
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 2: it comes to how they how.

649
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: They don't you jump from one to the other.

650
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 2: So we've got to give them a reason to come

651
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 2: back to us frequently. So we've got to do much

652
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 2: better with health.

653
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: Wealth, education. Are they really emerging?

654
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: They are? Yeah, people are people are wanting this. They

655
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: want what we call it's what we call breadth of

656
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 2: subject matter. You know, Like I said, you know, everyone

657
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: knows us to be fantastic in our coverage of NRL politics,

658
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 2: showbiz and particularly crime, but we absolutely need to offer

659
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 2: a lot more than that our consumers. Is to the

660
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: people who are actually subscribing to a sex sophisticated they're

661
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 2: informed and they're demand rightly more information, that more insights.

662
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: So in terms of the education piece, which I mean

663
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 1: and you know, who would think of a newspaper becoming

664
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: educational or an educator, But and I don't mean it

665
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: in a condescen any way. For newspapers that telling people, Yeah,

666
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: it's more about because there are a lot of people

667
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: who are not sophisticated and traditionally a lot of those

668
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: people bought the telling Yeah, and they just want to

669
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: know about the local robbery or sure of whatever it

670
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: was in the footy.

671
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 2: Well that's changed, and I think so yeah, yeah, I

672
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: mean I think if you go back twenty thirty years,

673
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: the you know, where you could go for information was

674
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 2: so much more limited. It's what I call linear. It's

675
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 2: basically what you were saying. You know, there's a very

676
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 2: few owners of the information, and they fed it down

677
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 2: to the market, and now it's been completely flattened, it's

678
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 2: been atomized. And so how do we justify our continuing existence.

679
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 2: We're no longer or we're less so much of a

680
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 2: mass market daily. It's more we're actually increasingly serving a

681
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 2: not niche, but a dedicated readership. And as those readership

682
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 2: levels have declined, the level of sophistication and education has

683
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,959
Speaker 2: gone up. So those people who might have been buying

684
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: the paper, you know, when we're selling six hundred thousand copies,

685
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 2: you know, forty years ago, they're getting all the information

686
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 2: on Facebook or Insta. A lot of those people who

687
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,919
Speaker 2: no longer buy the paper, the people who are buying

688
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 2: the paper are subscribing to the paper. They're actually very

689
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 2: well informed and very well engaged, leaning into the debates.

690
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: And so if you does that mean crime with crime

691
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 1: selves in terms still does doesn't mean crime. Those starts

692
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: to take it in terms of what you guys produced.

693
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 1: It starts to take less of a frontline position. Yeah.

694
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,959
Speaker 2: I mean, look, we still want to be the best

695
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: at it, and we have the best, but I think

696
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 2: we've got to, like it's got to be part of

697
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 2: a broader offering, you know. So that's where we're leaning

698
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: in towards me. We won't ever drop crime because you know,

699
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 2: you're right people rightly or wrongly. And I love reading about.

700
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: It, and I know it's one of the most watched podcasts.

701
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: Whenever I have a crime guest, it pumps.

702
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 2: People love it.

703
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: They love it. Crime, sex and sport. Generally, crime and

704
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: sex kill it big time. What do you think do

705
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: you think that health, longevity, blah blah blah, just a

706
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: better life? Because you know, you guys have been wrighting

707
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: about this for a long time, but it hasn't emerged

708
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: above crime and hasn't emerged above sport. It has emerged

709
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 1: about politics. But do you think as we as nation

710
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: we age and we become more wealthy because you know,

711
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: by the way, anyone who ow is probably in those

712
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: countries as over fifty is now wealthy and they're looking

713
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: for how can I hang out longer? Do you think

714
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 1: those aspects that you guys have been playing with and

715
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: covering but haven't promoted will become will emerge up there?

716
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: It's equivalent.

717
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 2: Look, they're not as explosive obviously literally or not. But

718
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 2: I do think I do believe people will subscribe for

719
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: that subject if the information is compelling enough, if it's engaging,

720
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 2: it's interesting. We tell stories as imaginatively as we do

721
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 2: and other, you know, as we tell our crime stories,

722
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 2: and I think it will engage.

723
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: I think that's I think that's the key.

724
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it is too because your crime.

725
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: Stories are good headlines. You've got really good journalists. If

726
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: you've got too good journals writing it, and the you know,

727
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: it's it's captivating it, especially if he puts the imagery

728
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: up about it.

729
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 2: But like, if not, it's like anything right, it's like

730
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 2: anything mark, You've got to humanize it, right, And so

731
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 2: I mean TikTok sort of saying, oh, you know, it's

732
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 2: all about peer to peer. It's always been about peer

733
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 2: to peer. It's always been like going back, you know,

734
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 2: we started in eighteen seventy nine. The best story is

735
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 2: always ones which you could put a face to. What's

736
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 2: the illustration? How we know what's the picture? Where's the picture?

737
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 2: We're visual creatures, not just visual, but we also want

738
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: to hear the story personally. So if you told a

739
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: Bland story about hey, if you take this cod liver concoction,

740
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: then you know, statistics say you're going to live this.

741
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: Who cares?

742
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 2: Right? But if you've got someone who said, hey, I

743
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 2: was on death Store and I started taking this and

744
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 2: now I'm actually doing fifty press ups a.

745
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: Day, probably read that, especially if it was in a video.

746
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:50,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, video even better.

747
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it was someone who was known because because

748
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: you know, I was only prior to you coming in.

749
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 1: I did a podcast with a chap and he's got

750
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: this unbelievable new app in his very excepts for doing

751
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: these things as a technologist. But he was talking to

752
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: me about dementia and for people over sixty years of age,

753
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: and that's a big part of Australia, and I dare

754
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: say probably a lot of your subscribers are over sixty.

755
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: The most searched illness on the through all search engines

756
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: is dementia. Yeah, right, people is terrified of it. They

757
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: are actually terrified of it.

758
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 2: Well, going back to what you were saying, right, I

759
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 2: don't think many people actually anticipate they're going to die

760
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 2: at eighty one now, So the chances are you're going

761
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: to have some form of outzheimers of dementia if you're

762
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 2: going to live longer. So there's there's anxiety around, and

763
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: am I going to have enough dough? There's anxiety around,

764
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 2: and am I going to have my family around and

765
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 2: my friends?

766
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: There's going to be one mass my kids.

767
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 2: It's pretty much it.

768
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 1: And you say to your kids, it's nice to them,

769
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: of cook, they might all say, no, I got four

770
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 1: sons and their dad's stuff that. But there are important

771
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 1: questions I think for us. But I want to ask

772
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: you this question. You were a journalist originally.

773
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I still consider myself one.

774
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but you're more you know, like sitting at

775
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: the top of the tree sort of making more decisions

776
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: in relation to the strategy around the business and then

777
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: probably looking over oversight on tactics. Sure, but do you

778
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: still have a hankering to be a journalist, like actually

779
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: want to write a story?

780
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? Have you written any rate recently, I did an

781
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 2: interview with Jas Packer, which was a thrill.

782
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: Yep, I read it, did you Okay?

783
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I did it as a Q and A,

784
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: which I think, you know, I really enjoyed it. I

785
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: thought he was fascinating. Did you have to go overseem

786
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 2: I didn't know. We just did it, you know, basically online,

787
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: and you know, it was tremendous and he was so candid. Yeah,

788
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 2: I thought it was the feedback spent incredibly candid, incredibly

789
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 2: yeah on him.

790
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: I felt like James was purging a little bit, like

791
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 1: it did, feel like getting it off his chest.

792
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. I thought it was cathartic in some way, very cathartic,

793
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 2: you know, and it was really I was really heartened

794
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 2: by you know, he seems in a good, much better

795
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 2: place now. But anyway, I digress. So, yeah, that's got

796
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 2: the blood pumping a bit. But there's a thrill in

797
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 2: actually editing a paper and editing the sites, and that's

798
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 2: like there's a bigger canvas there and actually coming up

799
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 2: with ideas and then getting them executed is sort of

800
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:32,959
Speaker 2: a different sort of thrill.

801
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: But how does it work? Does a journalist put the

802
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: story up and I mean the old days, someone would

803
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: have gone and corrected that.

804
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 2: I don't do that. But it's more like I said,

805
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 2: we come back to in the morning. We all get

806
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 2: together and the chief of staff's come in and they'll

807
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 2: talk about they'll have this topic plan, and they'll go

808
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 2: through what they're pitching. They'll pitch right, and there's probably

809
00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 2: fifty stories they'll talk about, and I'll and the other

810
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 2: leaders will say, well, hang on, a man, what about this.

811
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: Physical meeting? Physical meaning like you're all sitting in.

812
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 2: It's very old fashioned.

813
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good.

814
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's where particularly the morning one. There's a

815
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: morning one, there's afternoon one, and in fact there's meetings

816
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 2: well before that. Like they start at six. People start

817
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 2: getting in at five their first sort of meeting talking

818
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 2: about content from about seven. The time we have our

819
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 2: main conference is ten. But everything's been up and running

820
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 2: for a long time. And that first conference is where

821
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 2: you have that really full and frank exchange of ideas,

822
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 2: you know, where you throw stuff around and people will

823
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 2: pipe up and say, do I think that's crap? So

824
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 2: what about this? And you know, and.

825
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: There is a consensus type where is it you.

826
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: A bit of both? Look, you know, you know, they

827
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 2: someone's talking about it as a benevolent sometimes not so

828
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 2: a benevolent dictatorship. But I certainly try to cultivate a

829
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 2: lot of voices in that room and try and get everyone,

830
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 2: you know, because that's how people get motivated, if they're

831
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 2: relevant and they're part of the process. Yeah, and herd.

832
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: And once you get that going, it's fantastic, you know,

833
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,799
Speaker 2: and then people are fired up. The best newsroom are

834
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 2: the ones where the best newsrooms are the ones where

835
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 2: people are just like just leaning into stuff and excited

836
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: and chasing something that they think is a you know,

837
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:24,919
Speaker 2: a really good thing to go after.

838
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: And you and I guess the reward is getting a

839
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 1: story up. Absolutely then for them to get a story up.

840
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, there's there's all sorts of

841
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 2: different things, Like there's there's chasing a scoundrule and you're

842
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 2: trying to trying to get at the current to get

843
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: their image. There's you know, there's a minister gone you know,

844
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 2: gone sour and so you're chasing the political story around that,

845
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,879
Speaker 2: or there's a scandal involving a cover up or whatever.

846
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 2: There's so many different flavors to it. I mean, there's

847
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 2: there's a like last week we did the Bush Summit

848
00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 2: in Orange and unbelievable luck for as we're concerned is

849
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 2: that literally four days before the summit, the federal Environment

850
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 2: Minister cans a one billion dollar gold mine just up

851
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 2: the road from where we were holding the summit. And

852
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 2: so so that was just a gift because then we

853
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 2: could just absolutely.

854
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 1: This is the goal mine. Yeah yeah, business business that.

855
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, song lines yeah, and so we inside the business. Well,

856
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 2: let's have a lot of fun with that, you know.

857
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 2: And what that means is let's just go for it

858
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: and find every angle and you know, just and the

859
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 2: way you the way you have fun with it is

860
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 2: by exposing details is going after it and digging into

861
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 2: the story about well, what was the process, Who did

862
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 2: the minister speak to or didn't speak to? What about

863
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 2: the mine operator? Did they engage with the local Aboriginal community.

864
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 2: And it's in digging up those facts that the fund

865
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 2: has had because you expose the gaps just been.

866
00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: English to the journalist or the journalists, Okay, you go

867
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: and find out, you know, whether the labor party above

868
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 1: the particular minister is an agreement with this outcome, both

869
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 1: at state and do you do allocate jobs.

870
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 4: That?

871
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'll just say what about you know, one of

872
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 2: my reporters, I might say, what's odoity doing? Could he

873
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: do that? But it's more me. It's the chief of staffs.

874
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 2: They're in charge of the staff, right. I leave that

875
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 2: to them. I won't prescribe that because otherwise I'll screw

876
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: it up. Because they've got enough. They're juggling a lot

877
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 2: of balls. They'll know who they can allocate to it.

878
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 2: But what the most important thing each day is prioritizing.

879
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 2: You need to know what you're going after, and that's

880
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 2: maximum two or three stories that you really go after

881
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 2: and you throw your resources into. There's an old saying

882
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 2: that you know, if you've got the front page sign

883
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 2: up and everything else takes care of itself. It's not

884
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 2: quite like that, but it's pretty close. If you get

885
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: that main story right, then the rest of the paper

886
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 2: sort of you know, it usually is a good paper.

887
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 1: How do you know how long to go after something?

888
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: I mean, when something sort of run out of runt.

889
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:04,839
Speaker 1: Sometimes I don't.

890
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm still obsessed with it. In people it's like, hey,

891
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 2: it's over all, it's over Yeah, you know, I'm like

892
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 2: that Japanese soldier on the island in the nineteen fifties.

893
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 2: But so, you know, that's why you have, you know,

894
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 2: a good sort of counsel of minds around you, saying

895
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 2: so pulling you.

896
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 1: Up and do you you you're in terms of your

897
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: team workers, I guess that's what you're referring to. Do

898
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 1: you tend to have people around you in that regard, like,

899
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: let's call it, you're in house counsel I mean lawyers,

900
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: but counselors, counselors or whatever the word is. Do you

901
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 1: rely on people that you've always known, you've worked with

902
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: in the past for a long time, You trust, they trust.

903
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's there's a there's a small group

904
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 2: of guys and girls in our office who are brilliant.

905
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: You know, I'm extremely blessed. A lot of people say

906
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 2: this about their teams, but I've just genuinely got a

907
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 2: great team around me, and I heavily rely on them.

908
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 2: You know, there's only about five or six of them

909
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 2: who you know, you bring him and you often will

910
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 2: have what we call a crisis meeting, was sort of

911
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 2: we'd love to call it a crisis meeting. And sometimes

912
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 2: it's six PM and go, Okay, what are we doing here?

913
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:14,919
Speaker 2: It's still a mess, and you work through it, and

914
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 2: you know, you work through that on longer term projects.

915
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 2: You work through it on something you've got to turn

916
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 2: around the next half hour.

917
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: Where do you see and I don't mean in terms

918
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: of hard copies newspapers versus digital newspapers, but where do

919
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: you see news organizations like yours, like massive ones in

920
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: ten years time? Do you see? And hopefully they will

921
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: be listening. But you know, staff don't get nervous about this.

922
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 1: I'm not saying replacing stuff, but AI will have a

923
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: big part of all this.

924
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll play.

925
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 1: Big, and particularly the editorial stage that the stories we

926
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: want to chase, there'll be some sort of you might

927
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 1: even have it be some sort of software that'll be

928
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: looking at what's going on in the world and saying,

929
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: this is what everyone's talking about, is what readers want

930
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: to know about, and it will determine what the editorial

931
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: bent will be for the day or the week of

932
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: the month.

933
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, we do you see it. It's

934
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 2: gonna it's going to be it's going to be massive.

935
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,879
Speaker 2: But look, I'm more glass huffle. I see it as

936
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 2: liberating our finest minds, our best journals to actually do

937
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 2: what they do best, which is, you know, you know,

938
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:31,800
Speaker 2: uncover and expose and and bring home stories that matter.

939
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 2: A lot of the time, there's an incredible amount of

940
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 2: unglamorous activity involved in actually putting a paper out and

941
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 2: actually pulling a story together. A lot of a lot

942
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,240
Speaker 2: of calls that are not answered, a lot of emails

943
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,320
Speaker 2: that are ignored, a lot of doors that are knocked

944
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 2: on that go unanswered as well. AI won't replace that,

945
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 2: but AI will go a long way to helping that.

946
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: Process more an enhancement.

947
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So it's going to be and it's going to

948
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 2: be a tool in ways that we haven't imagined yet,

949
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 2: but the ways that I already know about is going

950
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 2: to be a fantastic aid to us. You know, it

951
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 2: can go, it can wade through. You might have a

952
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 2: hand side, say for example, or in Parliament.

953
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: Or the Deparliament record inquiries.

954
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 2: That committees have done, and you can you can basically

955
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 2: far more efficiently way through that council meetings, you know,

956
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 2: which we don't have enough reporters to go out of

957
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 2: the council meetings. Now there's no replacement for actually physically

958
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 2: being there, but certainly I can help with that. It

959
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 2: can also help I'll give you an example as well,

960
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 2: chat gpt, Right, So we just did it as an experiment.

961
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 2: We said, okay, we want to send a cadet to

962
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 2: and we imagine that there's been a drowning on the

963
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 2: central coast. And we said, okay, chat ChiPT, here's here

964
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 2: are the facts. A boy twelve has drowned at your

965
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 2: minor beach at ten am. His body was found face

966
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 2: down in the in the surf. Ask five questions, and

967
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 2: so chatchpt came up with questions like, you know, what

968
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 2: was his name? Okay, okay, that's fine. Ask us another

969
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 2: five questions. Chat cheapt says, well, was there anyone on

970
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 2: else on the beach, whether any surf life savers there?

971
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 2: Ask another five questions. And but the time we got

972
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 2: to the twentieth, and by the way, it's taken about

973
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 2: three minutes, it's asking questions that we didn't anticipate. So

974
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:34,439
Speaker 2: that's story gathering, right, that that's a story gathering tool

975
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 2: that could be really useful for young reporters to hone

976
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,720
Speaker 2: their craft about asking the right questions at a press conference.

977
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 2: As an example, there's so many things that it can

978
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 2: do that are going to help us. Yes, it's a

979
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 2: threat to but there's going to be there's going to

980
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 2: be some help along the way.

981
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: And do you think that there's going to be? I mean,

982
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: for me, for example, there's a survey one but that's

983
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: why I have until I have I should ask chat GBT.

984
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 1: But because I consume, because I have the ability to

985
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: consume so often and so fast local news. So let's

986
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 1: take the Bondi Junction Westfield drama. It was everywhere and

987
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,760
Speaker 1: pretty much everyone had the same information at that stage,

988
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: so I felt as though I had seen it all

989
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: and read it all. I did sort of give myself

990
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: a bit of an uppercut because that night, I won't

991
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: say I lost interest in it, but my interest had

992
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: been completely filled. My cup was filled. I couldn't get

993
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: any more information. So I started watching global news. Now

994
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: I don't know whether I'm an unusual survey, but I

995
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 1: was then became more interested in what was happening in

996
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 1: the US and a little bit to this and to

997
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 1: the UK, which is my sort of too important areas

998
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: that I like to know about inter the news. Do

999
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: you think that news will become more local? And sorry,

1000
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 1: less local and more global. Over time, our consumers becoming

1001
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 1: more interested in what's going on around in the world,

1002
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 1: far more is if I'm a weight attached to that

1003
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 1: than has been in the past, or do you think

1004
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: people just really want to know what's going on locally?

1005
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 2: I think it's the latter. I think you're you're a

1006
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 2: really well educated person. You know, you've traveled the world,

1007
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,720
Speaker 2: You're a worldly person. I'm not saying most people aren't

1008
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 2: like that, but my experience is that hyper local is

1009
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,280
Speaker 2: where people are at. They want to know what's happening

1010
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 2: in their world. It doesn't mean they don't also want

1011
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 2: to know about what's happening in the States, But there's

1012
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 2: no point me focusing resources on that because I will

1013
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,919
Speaker 2: never do it as well as anyone else. What I can,

1014
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 2: what I do have a comparative advantage in is hyper

1015
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 2: local and owning this town.

1016
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 1: So talking about him globally, let's talk about him Donald Trump,

1017
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: former president or I think they're still call it a

1018
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: bunch of presidents President President Trump the next election, so

1019
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 1: no doubt, you know you're going to be covering you

1020
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:26,280
Speaker 1: guys are covering at all. Is camally going to beat Donald?

1021
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: What would you think of that? I mean that do

1022
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 1: you think that was like an unbelievable cute move in

1023
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:34,879
Speaker 1: terms of timing.

1024
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 2: It is incredible. I think that the well, I don't

1025
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 2: interest in your thoughts, but I thought the Democrats time

1026
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 2: that debate to give them options. I think what the

1027
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 2: Democrats have done to reimagine her is unbelievable.

1028
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:52,800
Speaker 1: It's incredible. Her social media is and Craig has got nothing,

1029
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: but it's ridiculously good.

1030
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: It's the Signefeld candidate, right, yeah, totally. You know she's

1031
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 2: at about nothing, but it's the vibe the book. But

1032
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 2: it's amazing how suddenly Trump's the old guy. Yeah, and

1033
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 2: he looks at it. Yeah. And he hasn't worked it

1034
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 2: out yet. Do you think he hasn't worked out how

1035
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 2: to what the narrative is? You know, he's it's not

1036
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 2: working for him to attack her personally yet.

1037
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: No.

1038
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 2: I think I think if he sticks to policies and

1039
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 2: he's every chance. I haven't answer your question whether she'll win,

1040
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:32,280
Speaker 2: I reckon.

1041
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 1: I mean, the poll's got right ahead at the moment,

1042
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: slightly they do. No. Is it a popularity contest though,

1043
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: like I mean as America, Yeah, there is. I'm moved

1044
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 1: away from policy to popularity because we're talking about a

1045
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: voting of a present. We're not trying to talk about

1046
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: voting for a party versus another party. It's now, okay,

1047
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 1: this is where where I think that.

1048
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 2: I think that if Trump successfully positions her as part

1049
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 2: of the current administration, and he sticks to policies, he

1050
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 2: just talks about immigration, cost of living, and getting America

1051
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 2: moving again, and then he wins. I'm not sure if

1052
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 2: he can. I'm sure if he's capable of it. And

1053
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 2: I think the other problem is that people look at

1054
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 2: him and they go, maybe we don't want to move

1055
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 2: on from all the rancor, and maybe this is our

1056
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 2: chance to break from that, whether rightly or wrong. We

1057
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 2: maybe he's associated with that. But if you had a

1058
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 2: gun to my head, I say Trump wins just I

1059
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 2: think he just gets over the line. I think he

1060
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 2: gets Georgia. I think he wins. He still wins Arizona

1061
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 2: and Nevada and maybe one of the rus states, maybe Pennsylvania,

1062
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 2: and he gets there. Does it make a difference, That's

1063
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 2: a great question, That's a great I think it's off

1064
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 2: and overstated what difference it makes? I really do? I mean,

1065
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 2: people talk about Trump like, oh my god, if Trump

1066
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 2: comes in, it's just going to be armageddon. Kind of

1067
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 2: wasn't when he was president. In fact, on a foreign

1068
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 2: policy front, it was actually very sound. I didn't have

1069
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 2: any any wars. He's actually you're right, he was quite

1070
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 2: sound and quite reasonable.

1071
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: Very reasonable.

1072
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 2: I mean, he's a very good businessman, and he kind

1073
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: of ran it that way, and America was pumping before

1074
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 2: COVID came along. So I agree with you. I think

1075
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 2: it's a great question. I think that we definitely overestimate

1076
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 2: the importance of whoever the incumbony is. I mean, look,

1077
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 2: America's basically been running without with someone. They've been running

1078
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 2: in the vacuum for the last two years. Biden has

1079
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 2: not been firing on all cylinder, and nor does she.

1080
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 2: You have to go back on, go back through the

1081
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 2: transcript about how she how muddled she is on so

1082
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 2: many issues. But you know, I must say she's been

1083
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 2: pretty good in the spotlight the last four weeks. Incredible.

1084
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: Actually, well, you guys in your organization, you sort of

1085
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: dig deep into the weeds and you must be getting

1086
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: sort of lots of information from the US. This looks

1087
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: like to me, it looks it looks like to me,

1088
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: no idea, but it looks like to me, it's all

1089
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: been coordinated below like it looks like there's a puppet

1090
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: master or puppet mark.

1091
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 2: It does look that way. I'm not a conspiracy theorist,

1092
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 2: but it does. Yeah, it looks scripted, right, It looked

1093
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 2: totally looks scripted. Well, certainly because I know and.

1094
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: I'm talking this conspiracy either. I'm just saying just this

1095
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: is power brokers managing a process and doing a brilliant

1096
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 1: job at it.

1097
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 2: Doing a brilliant job at it, and aid and embedded

1098
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 2: by the vast majority of mainstream media. Yeah, I mean,

1099
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 2: I forget the Hunter Biden laptop was buried, was buried

1100
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 2: by Google, was buried by Zuckerberg, was buried by Twitter

1101
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 2: before must took it, and it was buried by all

1102
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 2: the mainstream networks. The only ones that were running it

1103
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 2: were the Post Wall Street Journal, and so most of

1104
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 2: America did not even know about it. And yet it

1105
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 2: was a scandal. It was it was a dreadful scandal.

1106
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 2: So that plays a big It's just to your point

1107
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:13,439
Speaker 2: about it all being neatly scripted. They're all they're all

1108
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 2: dancing to that cart are.

1109
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 1: We talking like a No, I don't want to get

1110
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: really weird. But is it like a cabal of powerful people?

1111
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if it is. Yeah, but like I

1112
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 1: don't know.

1113
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 2: I think they get together.

1114
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: In a room, right, So it's not coordinated, but there's

1115
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: almost like market signaling.

1116
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, market signaling.

1117
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: They're signaling and like, I get it. You guys are

1118
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: saying that, so we'll how we're going to contribute on

1119
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: Facebook and I'm going to say I'm going to bury this,

1120
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: and and then there would.

1121
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 2: Have been phone calls. Yeah for sure, mates, mate, this

1122
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 2: this is rubbish. You're not gonna run Thatay, no, don't

1123
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 2: worry buried. Yeah, you know, So it would have been

1124
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 2: more kind of at that level. Like as I say,

1125
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 2: it wouldn't have been executive meeting saying you know, this

1126
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 2: is our policy. But you also have within these organizations

1127
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 2: everyone signed up, right, So you're sort of pushing through

1128
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 2: an open door. Everyone's all part of that mission.

1129
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 1: Because I mean during COVID, you know, Lack's already admitted

1130
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 1: that he buried certain stuff about COVID. It's dangerous, totally dangerous.

1131
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, people would say I'm a murder editor. Yeah, well,

1132
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? Don't you guys do that?

1133
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,439
Speaker 1: Whether you do it or it doesn't matter, but maybe

1134
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 1: they both dangerous. But at least it's good to know

1135
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: that there's two sides of the imbalance in the system.

1136
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 1: And I guess that you know people's prejudices and there

1137
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: and also their biases. We're humans. It always comes out. Yeah,

1138
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 1: have the ability to write it because even like, if

1139
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: I look at the way someone writes a story, I

1140
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: mean generally speaking, I can see the language that they

1141
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: use is going to reflect their bias in the end,

1142
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: with their prejudice.

1143
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 2: It is, and rightly so. There've been concerns in the

1144
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 2: past of our concentration of media, but we've never seen

1145
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 2: anything like this in human history where a search engine

1146
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 2: is so utterly dominant on how we get our information.

1147
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 2: And so it's unprecedented and terrifying in a sense that

1148
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 2: you know, whatever you type in you can't it's been controlled.

1149
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,680
Speaker 1: So you must have brother. This breathed a sigh of relief,

1150
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 1: and Musk took over x Or took over Twitter, because yeah,

1151
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 1: well he's sort of brought some he brought another side

1152
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: of the story.

1153
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, he's a grenade thrower. We need

1154
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 2: them in the world, right, Yeah, it needs to be

1155
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 2: a bit.

1156
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 1: Messy, rightly or wrongly, we do need it. Well.

1157
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 2: I think that's where you know, Trump is sort of

1158
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 2: in their mole too, right, So when people say they

1159
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 2: don't like Trump, it's mainly because, like when you actually

1160
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 2: push them on it, it's often quite slippery. They can't

1161
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 2: actually say what it is they hate about him.

1162
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: I think he's got he's obnoxious.

1163
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 2: I think it's because he's he kind of goes against

1164
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 2: the grain of what people expect a politician should look

1165
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 2: and feel like and sound like and sound like right,

1166
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 2: and so he's that ultimate disruptor in that way, and

1167
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 2: you know, there's there's a lot that's objectionable about that.

1168
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 2: But also I think none of us should be surprised

1169
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 2: that he came along, because we had were basically served

1170
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 2: up crap for so long that there was there was

1171
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 2: a vacuum there waiting to be filled.

1172
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 1: I assume as the ultimate disruptor because he disrupted politics

1173
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: without any right to do so. But he saw the

1174
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: opportunity absolutely, And I have met him a couple of times,

1175
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 1: and you know, on the occasions that I interviewed him once.

1176
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 1: The only interview he did in Australia I had, He

1177
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 1: gave me a half hour interviewer was during the TV

1178
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 1: series and he of course owns The Apprentice with one

1179
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:56,360
Speaker 1: of the owners of The Apprentice, and so he offered to

1180
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 1: do it. He offered me that he I could do

1181
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 1: it and we get footage for a show. But the

1182
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 1: thing that I took away from was as pre president,

1183
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 1: he has to be for me the most the an

1184
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 1: ultimate or the ultimate marketing person when you go to

1185
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 1: market your own brand. Genius ever in history, well that's

1186
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 1: a lot coming from you. There's you know, there's a

1187
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 1: lot of people who are up there. But but in

1188
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: modern history, at least obviously there's an agent. You know,

1189
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 1: JC was pretty good at it, but he still lasted

1190
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 1: till today. But Trump in modern history has to be

1191
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: one of the most ultimate, the ultimate. I think self

1192
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 1: market self promoters. And I don't mean that as a

1193
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: narcissist in a narcissistic way. I just mean putting himself

1194
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: in a position to disrupt politics as it was always seen.

1195
01:04:57,400 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 2: He has a genius.

1196
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 1: There is a genius. There is a genius even in

1197
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 1: the way he speaks. And because I can tell you

1198
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 1: the language we hear on television is not how he

1199
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: speaks one on one really, No, he doesn't talk that way.

1200
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 1: That's a deliberate. It's deliberate. Well, it's well crafted. Like

1201
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 1: where there's others of crafts for him. I don't know,

1202
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 1: but it's well crafted.

1203
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 2: The language jective though, isn't it?

1204
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 1: He does he does it. It's a performance, yeah, it is.

1205
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 1: It's like it's showmanship at best. He's incredibly entertaining. Even

1206
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 1: if you hate him, he's still entertaining. Want to watch

1207
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 1: him to hate him? Do you want to watch him

1208
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 1: to criticize him for somebody else?

1209
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 2: In no accident that The New York Times, the Washington

1210
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 2: Post has left leaning mastheads of the States had the

1211
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 2: greatest subscript subscription growth after Trump won. It was the

1212
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 2: best thing that ever happened to them because they had

1213
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 2: something to rail against and people rally to them to say, well,

1214
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 2: why should we hate Trump? When they articulated it for them.

1215
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 1: Do you think that I know we don't have president's

1216
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:01,439
Speaker 1: elections in Australia, but like, do you think that our

1217
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 1: we are starting to move a little bit towards our territory?

1218
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: And it's nearly becoming when our poles do this, but

1219
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,919
Speaker 1: prime ministerial elections, I know we both for our local member.

1220
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 1: But we are starting to move that territory.

1221
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 2: I think we are. And you see that this week

1222
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 2: with Jim Chalmers has attacked Uton. Yeah, attacked the man policy.

1223
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:26,479
Speaker 2: It's harder to actually win the argument on policy these days.

1224
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 2: The SoundBite is getting compressed and so they go after

1225
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 2: the guy, which I think, by the way, is a

1226
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 2: sign of insecurity.

1227
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 1: It's not very Australian either. By the way, I'm not

1228
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 1: sure if it works. We play we don't we play

1229
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 1: the ball, we don't play the man.

1230
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like it.

1231
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 1: No, I that's what I think too. And I but

1232
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 1: my gut feeling is politics is borrowing from what they

1233
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 1: see in America, definitely, and it's nearly like there. I mean,

1234
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 1: particularly when it comes to Labor and the Democrats, Labor

1235
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 1: and Australia the democracy is I think that it feels

1236
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 1: like to me that they're nearly talking to each other

1237
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: saying listen, we're gonna lecture coming up to is there

1238
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 1: something you can help us as your you know, compatriots

1239
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 1: in the same cause win our next election or hold

1240
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 1: our position in Australia. This is important for you as

1241
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:19,360
Speaker 1: a Democrat, if you as a Democrat leadership for Australia

1242
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 1: to be similar with the Labor Party. And I just

1243
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 1: get that's just the thing I feel.

1244
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 2: Certainly, certainly in terms of political strategy, there's a there's

1245
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 2: a heap of exchange of ideas. There's actually individuals who

1246
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 2: worked on both campaigns. It happened with Kirs Starmer. It

1247
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 2: happened also on the Conservative side where Crosby Texter, you know,

1248
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 2: they helped out with the Conservative campaigns in the UK.

1249
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 2: There's actually a Labor guy from Australia who's working on

1250
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 2: the Democrats campaign. So there's there's definitely.

1251
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 1: And we'll come back to probably to work on.

1252
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 2: There's cross pollination there happening, and so that is the

1253
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 2: That's the real deal, definitely, because I just be something.

1254
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 1: I just feel it. Because the way like they're polling

1255
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 1: every week, you know.

1256
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 2: And the small so at the moment, what you know,

1257
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 2: he's actually written about the weekend. I'm not making this

1258
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 2: up that they was saying that the small target strategy

1259
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 2: that Kamala has adopted may in some way have been borrowed.

1260
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 2: I mean maybe it's overstating it, but they're suggesting that that,

1261
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 2: you know, does emulate in a way the way ALBINIZI

1262
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 2: had a successful campaign in that he kind of was

1263
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 2: able to successfully present himself as a as a you know,

1264
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:36,639
Speaker 2: no damage alternative that you know, I've got a safe

1265
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 2: pair of hands here. There was not much policy, you know,

1266
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:43,680
Speaker 2: not not huge policy discussion during that campaign. It was

1267
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 2: mainly just I'm not Morrison.

1268
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's funny you should say that, because I've

1269
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 1: been thinking about the upcoming election. By the way, I

1270
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 1: have a prediction. So I'll boldly say to you, great

1271
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 1: I think, and I've said this. I still do lots

1272
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 1: of talks and lectures on the economy, and I said recently,

1273
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 1: I said, if Labor calls an election before the end

1274
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 1: of this year, you can pretty much bet that come

1275
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 1: for every next year we're going to have a recession.

1276
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 1: Because they know the numbers better than anybody else, because

1277
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:22,720
Speaker 1: you know, they're talking to Treasury all the time, and

1278
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:25,840
Speaker 1: Labor will call that election because they don't want to

1279
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 1: go into it. They don't want to go into election

1280
01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 1: mode intercession, inter recession, because that that's just good night.

1281
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily follow if they don't call election before

1282
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 1: the end of the year, that we won't have a

1283
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:37,520
Speaker 1: recession next year, because there could be other ministry.

1284
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:39,679
Speaker 2: Definitely will be one if the dred percent.

1285
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 1: And we are seeing a little bit of noise at

1286
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 1: the moment and a little bit of ball passing and

1287
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:50,560
Speaker 1: like pushing the blame across the RBA. I'm getting signs

1288
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 1: right now, and you know, because you know, and by

1289
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 1: the way, what I think is quite interesting is that

1290
01:09:55,840 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 1: the RBA was appointed by this party, in fact by

1291
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:00,839
Speaker 1: the treasurer.

1292
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 2: Yep.

1293
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 1: Yet now he's coming home on the ABA. The RBA

1294
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:12,799
Speaker 1: more recently very sort of interestingly but sort of pointed

1295
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: to the fact that they're working against the government of

1296
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 1: the Montain or the governments working against them.

1297
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 2: That's right.

1298
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: They didn't say as much, but you know, you could could.

1299
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 1: That's sort of the coded walking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1300
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 1: And I find it quite interesting. And I just my

1301
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:32,559
Speaker 1: gut feeling is something's something is brewing at the labor level.

1302
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 1: I think they're getting nervous.

1303
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:37,360
Speaker 2: So on that the clients just turn it back here,

1304
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 2: do you think. I mean, we're talking about this narrow

1305
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:46,679
Speaker 2: path that Bullock has to sort of try and navigate right, And.

1306
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:48,639
Speaker 1: I don't think there is a narrow path as byner

1307
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 1: is one or the other. Right, it's not the recession

1308
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:53,600
Speaker 1: a recession, and I think I think it's got to

1309
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 1: be recession.

1310
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 2: Okay, So therefore her bias should be towards cutting.

1311
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 1: Rates, right, Yeah, No, therefore she should say therefore, well,

1312
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:04,800
Speaker 1: their database, so they're going to say, yes, yes, the

1313
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:06,320
Speaker 1: bias will be, but they're never going to She's never

1314
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 1: going to say it. So she's going to hold race.

1315
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 2: She doesn't have inflation expectation and.

1316
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 1: She doesn't want to beat do what her predecessor did. Yes,

1317
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 1: so she's not going to say so she's just whole rates.

1318
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 1: I think she's been very good by the way I

1319
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 1: do too. She shouldn't be measured, yes, And by the way,

1320
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:23,040
Speaker 1: she hasn't got upset with the government because like the

1321
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 1: government is actually spending money at state and federal levels,

1322
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 1: not just one, but at both those levels, which is

1323
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,799
Speaker 1: actually making her job a lot harder. It is because

1324
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 1: the money's not been spent so much in infrastructure, but

1325
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 1: it's all the employees that the government's employing in all

1326
01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 1: the various great outcomes and ndis they are all things

1327
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 1: that need to be done, don't get me wrong, but

1328
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:48,160
Speaker 1: maybe a little hold on, like a freeze on employment

1329
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 1: for maybe six months, would be a good idea. Because

1330
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 1: every single person of the thirty six thousand people they

1331
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:54,759
Speaker 1: are now going to be employed in the last budget

1332
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 1: at a federal level, they're all going to be put

1333
01:11:57,479 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 1: into one of these pockets, and they're all going to

1334
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 1: get paid a lot of money. And they are getting

1335
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:02,920
Speaker 1: paid a lot of money. And the generally speaking of

1336
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 1: being pulled out of organizations like mine or the CBA

1337
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:07,200
Speaker 1: and everyone else.

1338
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 2: There's capacity constraints in the private sex.

1339
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 1: Correct, and we have to pay more money than to

1340
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 1: get a person. So my my only alternative then is

1341
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 1: to increase my pricing, which we can't in the in

1342
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 1: our industry because you know, we have a standard price

1343
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 1: that pretty much everyone charges, but other industries can can charge.

1344
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:27,439
Speaker 1: And that's by definitely is going to be inflationary. So

1345
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:32,559
Speaker 1: there's there, seems to me from to answer your question

1346
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 1: from the Governor of the Reserve Bank's position, I think

1347
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:42,240
Speaker 1: she knows, and you know, we only have to go

1348
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 1: back to the great Poor Keeping, who you know, people

1349
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 1: don't like him, is very divisive, but you have to

1350
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 1: say he's probably one of the smarter treasures we've ever had.

1351
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 1: And he did some great things, you know at the time,

1352
01:12:56,200 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 1: you know, keeping boarding compulsory superinnovation, which has turned out

1353
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:06,080
Speaker 1: to be a great relief against Australian perse when people retire,

1354
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:09,040
Speaker 1: given we've got an aging population. I would dare say

1355
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 1: that ORD needs to be recalculated, but doesn't matter. He

1356
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 1: did deregulate the banking system so allowed people like my

1357
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 1: businesses come out to put pressure on the banks to

1358
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 1: lend it the right price. He did a lot of stuff,

1359
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:23,719
Speaker 1: floated flow the currency. He did a lot of great things.

1360
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:27,680
Speaker 1: But he also did something really important in ninety ninety one.

1361
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 1: I think was he was treasure at the time. He said,

1362
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 1: this is a recession we had to have. And if

1363
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:34,880
Speaker 1: you look at the stats right now, and she'd be

1364
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:36,559
Speaker 1: looking at the stats all the time. We have never

1365
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:39,759
Speaker 1: had bad statistics in a data censeer to the dutyp

1366
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:44,920
Speaker 1: et cetera, retail retail sales, et cetera, as we had

1367
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:47,360
Speaker 1: back in nineteen ninety one. We have to go back

1368
01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:51,719
Speaker 1: thirty years to see the same numbers. And I could

1369
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 1: only say to you, because he was always honest Paul,

1370
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:57,720
Speaker 1: which is why he lost his election in ninety six

1371
01:13:57,760 --> 01:13:58,760
Speaker 1: because you'd probably two on.

1372
01:13:58,840 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 2: Us for us.

1373
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:01,960
Speaker 1: But he did say we had to have that recession

1374
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 1: to curb inflation. And my gut feeling is she is

1375
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 1: probably saying the same yeah, but won't say it. And

1376
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:11,160
Speaker 1: I think the Treasurer probably knows it, and I think

1377
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 1: the Treasury numbers. We're going to get some numbers out

1378
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:16,800
Speaker 1: in the next couple of days, but he probably is

1379
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 1: terrified of those things, and he's going to start pushing

1380
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 1: the blame down the other end of the bookshelf.

1381
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:24,439
Speaker 2: Well, look Albernez, he quite rightly said before the last

1382
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 2: election that because he was asked, well, how are you

1383
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:33,639
Speaker 2: going to drive real increase in wages without unleashing inflation,

1384
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 2: he said, because we're going to get productivity guns. So

1385
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:39,519
Speaker 2: he hasn't delivered on that. And I think that's the.

1386
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 1: Most in the first part, productivity on the.

1387
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 2: First part, But the most critical thing in my mind

1388
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 2: is the second part. And it's hard to get productivity gains,

1389
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 2: but you certainly don't. You don't get productivity gains by

1390
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 2: making the industrial system more rigid. And I think that

1391
01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:58,559
Speaker 2: that's where it's going to come home to roost for

1392
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:02,640
Speaker 2: them is that they've introduced some draconian restrictions on businesses,

1393
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:06,960
Speaker 2: and the latest one being the right to disconnect, which

1394
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 2: are just ideological in nature and absolutely anathematic productivity.

1395
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:12,719
Speaker 1: And small business growth, well.

1396
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:16,400
Speaker 2: Small business is that's where it's really the rubber's hitting

1397
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 2: the road, right.

1398
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you'd be seeing that, would you know. I'm

1399
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 1: totally seeing it. Like you know, seventy percent of every

1400
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:22,639
Speaker 1: person that's employed in this country, gamefully employed in this country,

1401
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,880
Speaker 1: works for a small business. Most small businesses work on

1402
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,639
Speaker 1: the premise that they don't have premises, So people actually

1403
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:32,280
Speaker 1: work from home because rents so high commercially and so high,

1404
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:33,720
Speaker 1: and it makes sense for people to work from home

1405
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 1: because a lot of these things are ministry roles. Well,

1406
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 1: productivity means if I'm you know, if you're working for

1407
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 1: me and you work from home, that if it probably

1408
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 1: means that you're going to stop at three o'clock because

1409
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 1: you might want to pick your kids up, which is fine,

1410
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 1: but you want to pick up tools again at eight o'clock.

1411
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:53,680
Speaker 1: And I know the bank's operation this way. I mean

1412
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:55,680
Speaker 1: most of the banks who talk to my brokers talk

1413
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,400
Speaker 1: to them at seven pm at night. Yeah, the credit

1414
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 1: keep people, my guys up, my becus a MBM at night.

1415
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 1: And that's flexible, right, correct. So if all of a sudden,

1416
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 1: I'm I can't read my guys, it's after five o'clock,

1417
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:09,839
Speaker 1: then how am I going to get my loans approved?

1418
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 1: So and by all small business are affected like this.

1419
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 1: They all have flexibility. They have to have flexibility because

1420
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 1: if they don't provide the flexibility to their staff members,

1421
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:21,479
Speaker 1: the staff members have so many choices and go and work.

1422
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:23,719
Speaker 1: If the government will go never go to work.

1423
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:26,720
Speaker 2: Well, we're at a front page story today about how

1424
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:32,800
Speaker 2: hopeless our councils are at proving development applications. If you

1425
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 2: had them in the if the councils of the private sector,

1426
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:37,639
Speaker 2: they wouldn't be knocking off at three o'clock and having

1427
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:41,599
Speaker 2: an IDEO every nine days, and those applications will probably

1428
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:44,720
Speaker 2: be getting done more frequently. That's there's an example of

1429
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:47,600
Speaker 2: where the state is the dead hand on productivity.

1430
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,800
Speaker 1: And and that's why the federal government will never solve.

1431
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 1: They will never build one point two million houses, which

1432
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:57,760
Speaker 1: is their five you ticket, there is no chance. And

1433
01:16:57,760 --> 01:16:59,639
Speaker 1: and by the way, they need one point two million

1434
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 1: new House over the next five years based on what

1435
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 1: was previously considered to be the lot the medium term

1436
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:10,639
Speaker 1: immigration numbers, which has already been blown out of the water.

1437
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:13,800
Speaker 1: So you know, like so therefore, I do think if

1438
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:16,720
Speaker 1: we go back to, you know, the next election, I

1439
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:20,320
Speaker 1: do believe there is a big chance that the government

1440
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 1: will call an election before the end of thisition. I

1441
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:24,639
Speaker 1: don't know what the timing world. I don't have Helen

1442
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:27,519
Speaker 1: caretaker period's work, but like I would say, watch this

1443
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:28,559
Speaker 1: space in the next month.

1444
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 2: That's what I think. I don't dispute that.

1445
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 1: And and it is becoming a personality game, as you said,

1446
01:17:38,439 --> 01:17:44,479
Speaker 1: the it's about keeping Albanesi clean. So you don't see

1447
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:50,280
Speaker 1: Albanizi talk about any of these things. He's running the

1448
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris style and he's using Jim to attack on

1449
01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 1: this or you know, Penny Wong to attack on that

1450
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 1: or someone else. So they're all the bad but we'll

1451
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,719
Speaker 1: just keep him pretty happy, you know. And I wonder

1452
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:05,760
Speaker 1: in a minute, I'll put it back to you, do

1453
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:08,479
Speaker 1: you think Australians would buy that? Do you think what

1454
01:18:08,479 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 1: do you think about Do you think Australians no, like

1455
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:13,360
Speaker 1: American voters.

1456
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:17,639
Speaker 2: No, I no, I don't. Well it's compulsory, so it's different.

1457
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:21,439
Speaker 1: But do you think we're more wide into the games

1458
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:22,160
Speaker 1: that people play?

1459
01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think that

1460
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:31,599
Speaker 2: we are skeptical, very skeptical by hr yes, very untrusting

1461
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 2: in politicians. There's got to be something what's the hidden

1462
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:35,719
Speaker 2: agenda here that would.

1463
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:38,760
Speaker 1: Be the least trusted people I think in the next country.

1464
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:40,760
Speaker 2: Maybe next to me, but yeah, definitely.

1465
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:43,320
Speaker 1: Journalists and meeting politicians, sales.

1466
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:47,280
Speaker 2: And yeah, we're all in that. No, I think that's right.

1467
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 2: I think that Australians also would be very wary about

1468
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:58,280
Speaker 2: kicking a government out after one term, right, because I don't, like,

1469
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:01,880
Speaker 2: you know, we believe in a fair go. We want

1470
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:03,960
Speaker 2: to give them, give them a chance to having a crack.

1471
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:08,400
Speaker 2: But just to your point earlier, like people are hurting,

1472
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:13,719
Speaker 2: and they're hurting when the power bill arrives. They're hurting

1473
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:16,040
Speaker 2: when they see how much the mortgages or how much

1474
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:20,519
Speaker 2: their rent's gone up, and right there, wrong, Well, actually

1475
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:24,439
Speaker 2: you know they can shoot that home to this government.

1476
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:26,840
Speaker 2: And the reason is is because they actually fought the

1477
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:29,080
Speaker 2: last election on the cost of living how it's going

1478
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:29,960
Speaker 2: up under Morrison.

1479
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 1: So will your paper prosecute that? I mean, is that

1480
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:34,639
Speaker 1: is that what you do? Is that what your paper

1481
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 1: your news outlets? Well, do you, as the main editor, guy,

1482
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:42,200
Speaker 1: did you say to your team, well, let's call us

1483
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:43,679
Speaker 1: out let's because that's news.

1484
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:44,840
Speaker 2: Let's call them both out.

1485
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:48,400
Speaker 1: Okay, but the liberals insaney.

1486
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:51,160
Speaker 2: No, But but then again, they're going to have they're

1487
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:53,600
Speaker 2: going to present their pitch to the nation, and we

1488
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 2: have to interrogate that. Yeah. True, but yeah, definitely we

1489
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:01,639
Speaker 2: I think it's a mistake too. It was a little

1490
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 2: bit like the Voice, So we didn't declare our hand

1491
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 2: on where we stood on the Voice. We just chased

1492
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:09,799
Speaker 2: the story and watched the developments. Yeah, watsch the developments

1493
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:12,719
Speaker 2: and very much to strains has made up their own minds.

1494
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 2: They didn't need any guidance from us or anyone else

1495
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:20,720
Speaker 2: that they determined that. You know, I think it can

1496
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:25,639
Speaker 2: be overstated the influence that papers have on how people

1497
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:30,160
Speaker 2: vote on election day. It's important. It's one element, you know,

1498
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:34,160
Speaker 2: But I'm in a game where I mean the game

1499
01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:40,360
Speaker 2: I mean is actually being trustworthy and actually presenting Our

1500
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:45,280
Speaker 2: journalism has to be above approach, particularly with the onslaught

1501
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:47,519
Speaker 2: from social media. That's our point of difference is that

1502
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:51,400
Speaker 2: you know, we've got professional journalists who live in your community.

1503
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:54,519
Speaker 2: They pay the same bills. They you know, they drive

1504
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 2: cars on the same roads. That's how point of difference

1505
01:20:57,400 --> 01:20:57,600
Speaker 2: if for.

1506
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 1: Is that because social media journalists, yes, is not edited,

1507
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:03,600
Speaker 1: it is not controlled.

1508
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 2: What's derivative from us. So they rip our journalism off.

1509
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 1: But then they put their own spin on it.

1510
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:10,200
Speaker 2: No, they just don't live here. What they'll do is

1511
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 2: they don't put a spin on it. They just shove

1512
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 2: it up there and just let the algorithm do its work. Right.

1513
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:19,000
Speaker 2: But my point is that they're not here. They're in

1514
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 2: you know, they're in California somewhere.

1515
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:24,639
Speaker 1: And do you think I mean, if you were asked

1516
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:30,120
Speaker 1: to advise Anthony who by the way, I have met

1517
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:32,400
Speaker 1: him once or twice, but from what people tell me,

1518
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:35,000
Speaker 1: who haven't. He's a good blake, bubbly blake. Like I

1519
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:35,800
Speaker 1: don't really know him.

1520
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,160
Speaker 2: Well, we've been a footy a few times together. He's

1521
01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:40,599
Speaker 2: actually he's a great he's a great footy.

1522
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:44,360
Speaker 1: He loves you, he loves his site, he loves footy generally,

1523
01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:47,720
Speaker 1: and he comes from a really humble beginnings. I mean,

1524
01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:48,639
Speaker 1: I like his whole story.

1525
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 2: I guess that's true.

1526
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:53,800
Speaker 1: But if you're you know, you're an influential person, would

1527
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 1: you suggest to him that he should do he actually

1528
01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 1: should expose himself to more more media because he doesn't

1529
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:04,280
Speaker 1: really do that much media unless he's very controlled. He

1530
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:08,080
Speaker 1: gives you the soundbites, but actually I don't really remember

1531
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:09,920
Speaker 1: seeing him sit down with anybody for a long time.

1532
01:22:10,080 --> 01:22:14,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, look, I don't think like he's

1533
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:18,439
Speaker 2: not he's not as he's not on the level of

1534
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:21,200
Speaker 2: some of the American politicians. He's certainly a lot more

1535
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:23,160
Speaker 2: available on that. He does a lot of stand ups,

1536
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:26,960
Speaker 2: a lot more doorstops. Yeah, yeah, And I wouldn't have

1537
01:22:26,960 --> 01:22:30,920
Speaker 2: that criticism of him. I think, for example, if we said, mate,

1538
01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:33,160
Speaker 2: we want to do a sit down with you in

1539
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:36,200
Speaker 2: Freewek's time, he do it, we'd probably get it. Okay,

1540
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:38,760
Speaker 2: you know, I wouldn't criticize him on that on that

1541
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:39,320
Speaker 2: front at all.

1542
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:42,519
Speaker 1: And what do you think about Dunton? Then he's done

1543
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:45,640
Speaker 1: playing the reverse game, is done just saying I'm not

1544
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:47,920
Speaker 1: going to say too much you talk about nuclear I

1545
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:51,120
Speaker 1: get that, But other than that, I don't need to say.

1546
01:22:52,479 --> 01:22:57,400
Speaker 2: I think he's been very, very disciplined and to your point,

1547
01:22:57,400 --> 01:23:02,880
Speaker 2: he's kind of been very selective about when he's when

1548
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 2: he talks, and that's obviously a deliberate strategy because you

1549
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 2: can sound very shrill very quickly. We saw that with

1550
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 2: Jardie McKay and New South Wales. Mean, that was a

1551
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:15,000
Speaker 2: disaster because she was just bagging everything. And then you

1552
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:21,240
Speaker 2: see Chris Mins, who's actually actually incredible, incredibly, measured, incredibly

1553
01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:24,519
Speaker 2: but also magnanimous. So he's very happy to give credit

1554
01:23:24,520 --> 01:23:25,040
Speaker 2: where it's due.

1555
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:27,559
Speaker 1: Oh I saw him at the then the Martin Players railway,

1556
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:29,840
Speaker 1: like the what do we call this rolling thing? Yeah,

1557
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:33,320
Speaker 1: the Metro and he congratulated Domin and he congratulate Gladys,

1558
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:37,439
Speaker 1: which are You're right, it's magnanimous actually because like he's

1559
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:41,679
Speaker 1: actually a really decent person. Oh he is not suggesting

1560
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:44,679
Speaker 1: anybody else is not. But he's a very decent guy.

1561
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah he is, and smart, very smart. And when you

1562
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:51,400
Speaker 2: look at Chris Mins, you don't actually see the labor

1563
01:23:51,439 --> 01:23:55,559
Speaker 2: brand on him, right, Yeah, it's that's clever. Yeah, it's

1564
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:59,640
Speaker 2: sort of like what you see is just him instinctively

1565
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:03,439
Speaker 2: respond to things. And I think that he's a new

1566
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:06,400
Speaker 2: brand of politician in that respect and it's incredibly effective.

1567
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:09,320
Speaker 2: But the opposition cannot lay a glove on him.

1568
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 1: Nah, well, no one even knows who's I mean, we

1569
01:24:12,600 --> 01:24:15,960
Speaker 1: know who speaks, we know who his opposite number is.

1570
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:19,920
Speaker 1: But well but a lot of it wouldn't know. And

1571
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:24,760
Speaker 1: Chris is sort of put himself out there. He's so

1572
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:26,920
Speaker 1: far ahead of everybody, he's like ten seconds ahead of

1573
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:29,639
Speaker 1: everybody else in the two hundred meters. He's so far

1574
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:31,679
Speaker 1: right ahead, like he's the only one in the race.

1575
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:35,639
Speaker 2: But he's also I think I think he's also enough

1576
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:37,960
Speaker 2: of a realist to know that that doesn't that doesn't,

1577
01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 2: that can end very quickly. So I think he's you know,

1578
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 2: he's very determined and disciplined at the moment. He knows

1579
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:50,160
Speaker 2: that this housing crisis will just swallow him up and

1580
01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:52,680
Speaker 2: spit him out unless he stays on top of it.

1581
01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:55,559
Speaker 1: So I guess it brings us to the story of

1582
01:24:55,800 --> 01:25:02,160
Speaker 1: a warrick Farmers Rose Hill. That's a a shit fight. Well,

1583
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:04,599
Speaker 1: pout of landis is being dragged into it.

1584
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:09,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, In fact, it's the Australian Turf Club. Yeah, so

1585
01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:12,519
Speaker 2: it's not him, No, he's a regulator. Yeah, so it's

1586
01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:15,040
Speaker 2: a turf club that owns for Rose Hill. But of

1587
01:25:15,080 --> 01:25:19,280
Speaker 2: course that was an opportunity for Landi's detractors to use

1588
01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:20,880
Speaker 2: this as an excuse to have a crack at.

1589
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:23,200
Speaker 1: Him, which is sort of worked.

1590
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:25,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, well to an extent.

1591
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:28,400
Speaker 1: Men's backs him or backs backs the backs the idea.

1592
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:30,200
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's a good idea, I think, and

1593
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:34,200
Speaker 2: he recognizes it. It's not a good idea, it's a

1594
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:34,839
Speaker 2: great idea.

1595
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 1: Well, it's compulsory because we need more housing.

1596
01:25:38,479 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 2: We need more housing, and it's definitely the most attractive

1597
01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:46,280
Speaker 2: tract of land where people want to live in Sydney

1598
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 2: in the basin and you can get twenty five thousand

1599
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:53,000
Speaker 2: homes in there, The Metro will go through there and

1600
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:57,040
Speaker 2: you'll basically set up safeguard the racing industry for the

1601
01:25:57,120 --> 01:25:59,800
Speaker 2: next half century, if not more so.

1602
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:05,880
Speaker 1: How does then how does how do the the controversy

1603
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:06,599
Speaker 1: get legs?

1604
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:10,080
Speaker 2: Well, I think that the ATC would probably have, had

1605
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:13,120
Speaker 2: their time again, have approached it differently. They would have

1606
01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:16,720
Speaker 2: done a lot more stakeholder engagement.

1607
01:26:16,439 --> 01:26:18,200
Speaker 1: As in consultations one hundred percent.

1608
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:20,400
Speaker 2: They should have spoken to the trainers and and actually

1609
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:23,280
Speaker 2: presented the vision of where they want to take racing

1610
01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:25,800
Speaker 2: and I don't think they necessarily did that as well

1611
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:26,920
Speaker 2: as they might have liked.

1612
01:26:27,080 --> 01:26:29,200
Speaker 1: So when that story comes into the you know, the

1613
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:33,000
Speaker 1: editorial room, whatever you call it, you know, the the

1614
01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 1: morning meeting.

1615
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:35,000
Speaker 2: Sure, what do you do?

1616
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:37,080
Speaker 1: What do you what's your first reaction to that?

1617
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:42,280
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, a bit of that, but I mean it's

1618
01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:46,519
Speaker 2: a stunning it's a stunning piece of stunning revelation.

1619
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:50,960
Speaker 1: You've got premiers and everything, Pajaman the NRL names massive.

1620
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and also like rose Hill is, there is

1621
01:26:56,439 --> 01:26:59,240
Speaker 2: incredible sentimental attachment to it. You know, the Golden Step

1622
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:03,679
Speaker 2: has been there for more sixty years and so yeah,

1623
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:05,760
Speaker 2: what do I do when that happens? It's like, right,

1624
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:08,640
Speaker 2: let's get our heads around it. You know what do

1625
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:11,600
Speaker 2: we think? We just basically do what you do with

1626
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:15,360
Speaker 2: any yarn is, let's get the facts and then sort

1627
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 2: of then you know, the answers will sort of make

1628
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:19,160
Speaker 2: themselves apparent.

1629
01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:21,519
Speaker 1: So do you have but do you get sort of

1630
01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 1: is there a nervousness about the urgency because we've got

1631
01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:29,280
Speaker 1: to get this up? Do you see You've got two

1632
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:30,240
Speaker 1: hours or so.

1633
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:33,200
Speaker 2: I've got to express it. Probably shouldn't say what it is,

1634
01:27:33,240 --> 01:27:35,839
Speaker 2: but basically, let's call it fast and dirty, which is basically,

1635
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:36,679
Speaker 2: get the yarn up.

1636
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:37,880
Speaker 1: Get something up straight to get it up.

1637
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:41,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, and then let's let's build on it. Yeah,

1638
01:27:41,680 --> 01:27:43,920
Speaker 2: refined because it is a game of speed.

1639
01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:45,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the speed is quick.

1640
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:50,560
Speaker 2: Quickness is important, Yeah, because your CEO search engine optimization

1641
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:54,639
Speaker 2: authority is determined by one that important component of speed,

1642
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:59,120
Speaker 2: right that you know, the engine determines that you've got

1643
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:02,559
Speaker 2: more authority if you're first. Right, So speed is very

1644
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 2: very important.

1645
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:06,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the digital world's changed things a little bit

1646
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 1: a little bit.

1647
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:09,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you can't. You can't just sort of you know,

1648
01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:12,880
Speaker 2: take your time. You've got to get it up and

1649
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:15,040
Speaker 2: then continue to add to it, add to the richness

1650
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:19,439
Speaker 2: of the story. And you know, there's there's a whole

1651
01:28:19,439 --> 01:28:20,800
Speaker 2: lot of components that go into that.

1652
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:23,160
Speaker 1: So I just want to find a question. I mean,

1653
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:27,320
Speaker 1: do you see anybody or anything out there that can

1654
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:33,559
Speaker 1: disrupt between the two main news outlets, which is nine

1655
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:37,720
Speaker 1: and News Corp. Well Daily Telegraph? Is there a do

1656
01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:43,040
Speaker 1: you think there's some threat there? Because I remember many

1657
01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:47,679
Speaker 1: many years ago and Don Ugus was the CEO of NAB.

1658
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:51,040
Speaker 1: Don Augus was asked this question. It was in the

1659
01:28:51,040 --> 01:28:54,800
Speaker 1: AFI I was in two thousand and two or three,

1660
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:57,840
Speaker 1: and they said what keeps you wake at night? In

1661
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:01,559
Speaker 1: terms of the banks controlling the market. And his answer

1662
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:05,880
Speaker 1: to that was, funnily enough, someone a General Electric coming

1663
01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:09,599
Speaker 1: to the marketplace and becoming a bank. Of course they

1664
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:11,680
Speaker 1: bought my business. As as soon as I read it,

1665
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:17,840
Speaker 1: I went straight to thank you, thank you, don But

1666
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:22,880
Speaker 1: but if I'm asking you the same question today, what

1667
01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:25,960
Speaker 1: was your most what keeps you awake?

1668
01:29:28,439 --> 01:29:33,200
Speaker 2: Where I went to straight away was retail media. Well

1669
01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:36,880
Speaker 2: you mentioned Amazon, right, Amazon's got enormous retail media like

1670
01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:42,080
Speaker 2: on there through all their assets, They've got content and

1671
01:29:42,240 --> 01:29:46,040
Speaker 2: they could easily just you know, they will hoover up

1672
01:29:46,040 --> 01:29:48,000
Speaker 2: a lot of attention, a lot of revenue that way.

1673
01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:52,600
Speaker 2: So Wilworth has their own media. They have their own

1674
01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:56,840
Speaker 2: digital magazine, physical magazines. All of the big companies have that,

1675
01:29:56,880 --> 01:29:59,400
Speaker 2: and they're they're hoovering up revenue as well as the

1676
01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:02,559
Speaker 2: social media as an advertising revenee. Advertising but you know,

1677
01:30:02,600 --> 01:30:06,439
Speaker 2: a subscription, no no advertising revenue. Absolutely to reach play

1678
01:30:07,240 --> 01:30:12,320
Speaker 2: engagement and so that they're they're hiring journalists. Banks are

1679
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:15,559
Speaker 2: hiring journalists. They're all hiring journalists. So what keeps me

1680
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:17,519
Speaker 2: up at night. I suppose is that in the other

1681
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:22,920
Speaker 2: corollay for that is talent. It's so hard to hold

1682
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:26,439
Speaker 2: on to and attract talented journalists because they all go

1683
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:30,240
Speaker 2: to UNI, might do a communications course and all the

1684
01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:32,960
Speaker 2: all the lecturers are saying, I don't go to the media,

1685
01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:34,840
Speaker 2: there's no future in it. Of course there's a future

1686
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:37,800
Speaker 2: in it, but they just don't see that in the universities.

1687
01:30:38,120 --> 01:30:41,400
Speaker 2: So talent, the pipeline of talent's one of the one

1688
01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:42,280
Speaker 2: of the toughest things.

1689
01:30:42,479 --> 01:30:45,840
Speaker 1: And does that mean therefore then that perhaps you need

1690
01:30:45,880 --> 01:30:49,879
Speaker 1: to word infiltrate sort of comes to mind. But engage,

1691
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:52,880
Speaker 1: engage with the university there we are go and see

1692
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:56,120
Speaker 1: someone like David Gons Can you say, how can we assist?

1693
01:30:56,479 --> 01:31:00,720
Speaker 2: So we do that. We've got campus partnerships with well

1694
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:04,000
Speaker 2: in Sydney. We've got three campus partnerships Western Sydney, Sydney

1695
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 2: and un Newcastle.

1696
01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:07,439
Speaker 1: You would have been inestud No, I haven't got them yet.

1697
01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:08,599
Speaker 2: If you can help me out, I can.

1698
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:13,360
Speaker 1: I can David who's I'm alumni there and David would

1699
01:31:13,400 --> 01:31:14,120
Speaker 1: definitely be interested in.

1700
01:31:14,120 --> 01:31:17,200
Speaker 2: Talk trific Okay, great, we'll take that off on totally brilliant.

1701
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:22,759
Speaker 2: And that involves us giving guest lectures, getting the students

1702
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:27,360
Speaker 2: to come and they do internships and we we certainly

1703
01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:31,480
Speaker 2: we give a free subscription to the students and we

1704
01:31:31,720 --> 01:31:34,280
Speaker 2: try to serve up content that's relevant to them and

1705
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:38,960
Speaker 2: hopefully that's an investment in future, you know, full blown subscribers,

1706
01:31:39,280 --> 01:31:42,519
Speaker 2: you get that sort of pipeline of engagement. So yeah,

1707
01:31:42,760 --> 01:31:48,040
Speaker 2: well that's absolutely critical to our mission to remain viable,

1708
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:48,799
Speaker 2: because you're.

1709
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:52,160
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, unless a software can write for you,

1710
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:55,679
Speaker 1: which perhaps may be the case one day, but right now,

1711
01:31:57,120 --> 01:32:00,240
Speaker 1: in order to be a news business, you have to

1712
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:01,639
Speaker 1: have talent to write the news.

1713
01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:04,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you do, and and it's all the more precious,

1714
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:07,800
Speaker 2: you know that. As I said at the outset, I'm

1715
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:10,200
Speaker 2: fortunate to have a good team, but you can't take

1716
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:12,640
Speaker 2: that for granted. I probably spend you know, he asked me.

1717
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:14,479
Speaker 2: Actually the first question asked is what do I do.

1718
01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:19,120
Speaker 2: I probably spend you know, four hours out of every

1719
01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:24,120
Speaker 2: ten on talent development and my team. It's absolutely critical.

1720
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:27,920
Speaker 1: Have you got an aging talent pool. It's a good mix.

1721
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:28,840
Speaker 1: It's a good mix.

1722
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:34,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we've got we've got a good cadet ship program, unfortunate.

1723
01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:39,519
Speaker 2: I mean, that's actually the money from Google to license

1724
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:43,280
Speaker 2: our content pays for our cadetship program. And it's so

1725
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:46,759
Speaker 2: so critical because it's sort of injecting that fresh blood.

1726
01:32:47,320 --> 01:32:49,640
Speaker 2: But then we've also got the grizzly old journals that

1727
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:51,360
Speaker 2: are there too, who are fantastic.

1728
01:32:51,400 --> 01:32:53,599
Speaker 1: Well, that's only sort of says that your attention has

1729
01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:56,439
Speaker 1: been very good. I mean, because I mean everything's about

1730
01:32:56,840 --> 01:33:01,040
Speaker 1: recruitment and retention. So maybe the recruitments more difficult because

1731
01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:03,920
Speaker 1: there's lesser pool to recruit them. There's more people trying

1732
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:04,479
Speaker 1: to hit that pool.

1733
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:06,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, retention is, but your attentions.

1734
01:33:06,439 --> 01:33:08,519
Speaker 1: I mean, like if I look at you mentioned my

1735
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:11,200
Speaker 1: car Arnison, which is one of the younger Rugby League journalists.

1736
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:14,400
Speaker 1: Michael's maybe he's forty, I don't know sure, But then

1737
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:18,240
Speaker 1: you've got Buzz, who's like my age, Buzz one hundred

1738
01:33:18,360 --> 01:33:22,400
Speaker 1: Buzz to hear that, and but you still got in there. Yeah,

1739
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:25,080
Speaker 1: because to keep Michael you need to have absolutely you

1740
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:27,000
Speaker 1: need he wants to look. He looks up to Buzz

1741
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:33,040
Speaker 1: and that's sort of like, you know, if he wasn't there,

1742
01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:34,439
Speaker 1: it's going to be hard to get a whole lot

1743
01:33:34,439 --> 01:33:36,360
Speaker 1: of footy the inspiration.

1744
01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:40,560
Speaker 2: And it's the same with Mark Maury as our crime Yeah,

1745
01:33:40,640 --> 01:33:44,519
Speaker 2: and then Josh Hanrahan is just freakishly good and they're like,

1746
01:33:45,200 --> 01:33:47,920
Speaker 2: you know, the old couple, but they work together. Well.

1747
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:52,559
Speaker 1: Markemurray's got a head for crime. He doesn't. He's just

1748
01:33:52,600 --> 01:33:54,920
Speaker 1: like I look at him, he's on TV. I come

1749
01:33:54,960 --> 01:34:00,439
Speaker 1: in where I see him now he's probably but asking that.

1750
01:34:00,720 --> 01:34:02,519
Speaker 1: I think he's got a head for a crime writer.

1751
01:34:03,240 --> 01:34:06,400
Speaker 1: Brilliant and just just on that, just sorry, quickly, I

1752
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:08,639
Speaker 1: mean I'm going I've been going too long. I'm getting

1753
01:34:08,640 --> 01:34:12,439
Speaker 1: wound up. But just on that. I remember in the

1754
01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:14,519
Speaker 1: days when Hardo was there, we're going to talk about

1755
01:34:14,560 --> 01:34:20,719
Speaker 1: long time ago. They are always connected with the cops,

1756
01:34:21,800 --> 01:34:23,840
Speaker 1: and you know, they did a lot with the police

1757
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:26,960
Speaker 1: because you know, they needed to get that's information. That's

1758
01:34:27,439 --> 01:34:29,840
Speaker 1: it still works that way very much. Yeah, because.

1759
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:32,679
Speaker 2: It works both ways.

1760
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:36,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, correct, because sometimes the police wants something.

1761
01:34:36,600 --> 01:34:38,679
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it doesn't mean we hold them, don't

1762
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:41,519
Speaker 2: hold them account Yeah, but you definitely have to have

1763
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:44,880
Speaker 2: a strong relationship and have that back channel ability to

1764
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:46,320
Speaker 2: have those back channel conversations.

1765
01:34:46,360 --> 01:34:48,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what doesn't really compromise you anyway, because you know,

1766
01:34:49,479 --> 01:34:52,400
Speaker 1: just because you're talking to, you know, the crime commander

1767
01:34:52,439 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 1: for New South Wales, it doesn't necessarily mean you've got

1768
01:34:54,439 --> 01:34:57,280
Speaker 1: to support the commissioner if she's in the you know,

1769
01:34:57,600 --> 01:35:00,640
Speaker 1: in the in the headlines for some reason. Right, And

1770
01:35:00,720 --> 01:35:03,200
Speaker 1: because the crime the head of crime, he'll still talk

1771
01:35:03,240 --> 01:35:04,880
Speaker 1: to you because he knows there's a need for that.

1772
01:35:05,439 --> 01:35:09,519
Speaker 1: So I sort of get that. But the old days

1773
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:12,439
Speaker 1: are pretty close. I mean I haven't really been around.

1774
01:35:13,560 --> 01:35:16,680
Speaker 1: I'm still involved with the police, but in terms of

1775
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:21,519
Speaker 1: I do stuff for them. But do you still play

1776
01:35:21,560 --> 01:35:23,960
Speaker 1: that game sort of very much? Mark Murray would sort

1777
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:25,200
Speaker 1: of be talking to them.

1778
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:27,800
Speaker 2: All the time. Yeah, and me too. You know, it's

1779
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:31,680
Speaker 2: really important to have those relationships because it's also like

1780
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:34,760
Speaker 2: I have to have a very strong contact book and

1781
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:38,160
Speaker 2: being constantly contact with a lot of external parties. Otherwise,

1782
01:35:38,680 --> 01:35:40,760
Speaker 2: he asked me before, how do I have a sense

1783
01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:43,200
Speaker 2: of what's important? I have to be out and about

1784
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:43,639
Speaker 2: a lot.

1785
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:46,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and does that mean your life is sort of

1786
01:35:48,160 --> 01:35:49,480
Speaker 1: you know, you're always.

1787
01:35:49,080 --> 01:35:54,040
Speaker 2: On pretty much? Yeah, yeah, I like that. Yeah, it's fun.

1788
01:35:54,240 --> 01:35:57,400
Speaker 1: So nine times you've got to go to functions to

1789
01:35:57,560 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 1: write down the sort of dallims and it gets definitely.

1790
01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:01,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an important one.

1791
01:36:01,800 --> 01:36:05,519
Speaker 1: Yeah. So you okay, that's cool, but that means you're

1792
01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:07,920
Speaker 1: incredibly busy then, like if you're kicking off early in

1793
01:36:07,920 --> 01:36:10,880
Speaker 1: the morning, because you've got to be around when people

1794
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:12,880
Speaker 1: talking to you. But then you've got to sort of

1795
01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:15,519
Speaker 1: do the schmoozing sort of stuff. I mean it's sort

1796
01:36:15,520 --> 01:36:17,960
Speaker 1: of pr type of thing. But I've got to be present.

1797
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:20,760
Speaker 2: You've got to be present, You've got to c and

1798
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:25,080
Speaker 2: be scene and I think it's really important. So that's

1799
01:36:25,080 --> 01:36:26,240
Speaker 2: how you established trust.

1800
01:36:26,040 --> 01:36:27,040
Speaker 1: As well enjoying it.

1801
01:36:27,400 --> 01:36:28,280
Speaker 2: I'm loving it. Yeah.

1802
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:30,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the best job. I've got the best job

1803
01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:30,639
Speaker 1: in Sydney.

1804
01:36:30,680 --> 01:36:31,960
Speaker 2: I love it. It's so great.

1805
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:36,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. And and what's the Yeah, do you worry about burnout.

1806
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:38,439
Speaker 2: Every day?

1807
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:40,200
Speaker 1: Yeah? You feel exhausted?

1808
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:42,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I kind of cacun a bit on

1809
01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:44,960
Speaker 2: the weekends. Yeah, whor I can you just sort of

1810
01:36:45,360 --> 01:36:47,120
Speaker 2: you know, you're not really But.

1811
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:50,000
Speaker 1: What is someone like you do to just to flip

1812
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:53,400
Speaker 1: it a little bit too, just to relax, to decompress.

1813
01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:57,880
Speaker 1: I serve like actually in the on a border yea wow.

1814
01:36:58,120 --> 01:36:58,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1815
01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:01,120
Speaker 1: And do you live in Cyitny?

1816
01:37:01,240 --> 01:37:07,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, surf at Maroubra okay, and you know that's just great.

1817
01:37:07,680 --> 01:37:10,799
Speaker 2: You're in the wilderness and no one.

1818
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:13,560
Speaker 1: Can call you. Always surfed. Yeah, since I was that

1819
01:37:13,720 --> 01:37:15,840
Speaker 1: seven or eight, Apple Juice was sitting across of there.

1820
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 1: He used to be a journalist Tracks.

1821
01:37:17,240 --> 01:37:19,479
Speaker 2: I was talking to him. Amazing. I mean, that's what

1822
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:21,920
Speaker 2: I have that I dreamt off, that's the dream shop.

1823
01:37:22,040 --> 01:37:23,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he was jals of tracks. But he left

1824
01:37:23,960 --> 01:37:26,000
Speaker 1: me because and if he saw the like, he decided

1825
01:37:26,040 --> 01:37:29,160
Speaker 1: to come to stay talk much better. So you could

1826
01:37:29,160 --> 01:37:31,040
Speaker 1: have done that if you had, if you were twenty five,

1827
01:37:31,200 --> 01:37:33,280
Speaker 1: thirty five, forty years younger, you could have done the

1828
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:35,679
Speaker 1: same thing. All go wrong, mate. Good to see

1829
01:37:35,720 --> 01:37:37,040
Speaker 2: You too, mate, Thanks so much.