1 00:00:03,430 --> 00:00:06,450 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,810 --> 00:00:09,500 Sean Aylmer: In the local startup scene, there are plenty of companies 3 00:00:09,539 --> 00:00:13,090 Sean Aylmer: reporting pretty incredible growth, but there aren't as many that 4 00:00:13,090 --> 00:00:16,169 Sean Aylmer: can say they're making a meaningful difference to the lives 5 00:00:16,250 --> 00:00:19,940 Sean Aylmer: of their customers. Sonder is one of those. It's primarily 6 00:00:19,940 --> 00:00:23,770 Sean Aylmer: a health and safety business with companies, including Woolworths, signing up 7 00:00:23,770 --> 00:00:26,810 Sean Aylmer: to give their own employees access to the service, but 8 00:00:26,810 --> 00:00:30,170 Sean Aylmer: it's a blend of technology and real- world responders that 9 00:00:30,170 --> 00:00:33,080 Sean Aylmer: enable Sonder to help with a range of problems, from 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,690 Sean Aylmer: mental health challenges to physical danger. The mental health aspect 11 00:00:36,740 --> 00:00:39,680 Sean Aylmer: of the platform is particularly relevant at the moment as 12 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,750 Sean Aylmer: we emerge from lockdowns. According to the Black Dog Institute, 13 00:00:42,830 --> 00:00:47,330 Sean Aylmer: mentally unhealthy workplaces are costing Australia up to $39 billion 14 00:00:47,330 --> 00:00:51,450 Sean Aylmer: dollars each year due to lost participation and productivity. Craig 15 00:00:51,450 --> 00:00:54,800 Sean Aylmer: Cowdrey is the co-founder and CEO of Sonder. Craig, welcome 16 00:00:54,830 --> 00:00:55,550 Sean Aylmer: to Fear and Greed. 17 00:00:56,010 --> 00:00:57,260 Craig Cowdrey: Hi, Sean. Thanks for having me. 18 00:00:57,550 --> 00:01:00,760 Sean Aylmer: First, take me through how Sonder works. If a company 19 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:02,810 Sean Aylmer: signs up with you guys, what happens then? 20 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,810 Craig Cowdrey: Sure. So, we really operate in the student and employee 21 00:01:06,810 --> 00:01:11,309 Craig Cowdrey: assistance space and so tackling the employee assistance area. So, 22 00:01:11,569 --> 00:01:13,990 Craig Cowdrey: the traditional approach, I think it's important to understand that first, 23 00:01:13,990 --> 00:01:17,500 Craig Cowdrey: how things were done previously and how that compares to 24 00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:21,540 Craig Cowdrey: how we operate. So, really, when it comes to support 25 00:01:21,540 --> 00:01:25,190 Craig Cowdrey: for mental health, physical safety, medical issues for employees, the 26 00:01:25,190 --> 00:01:29,360 Craig Cowdrey: traditional approach was really siloed. Organisations, service providers would treat 27 00:01:29,709 --> 00:01:34,130 Craig Cowdrey: issues quite separately. They were largely quite passive, so support 28 00:01:34,130 --> 00:01:37,040 Craig Cowdrey: would only kick in once people reached out for assistance, 29 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,300 Craig Cowdrey: and typically, when somebody was already critical, and even then, 30 00:01:40,300 --> 00:01:43,869 Craig Cowdrey: support was actually pretty non- responsive. So, when an employee, 31 00:01:43,870 --> 00:01:46,720 Craig Cowdrey: for example, might need help with a mental health issue 32 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:51,080 Craig Cowdrey: like anxiety, or depression, or extreme stress, then they would 33 00:01:51,170 --> 00:01:54,090 Craig Cowdrey: often be waiting days or even weeks, sometimes months, to 34 00:01:54,090 --> 00:01:57,410 Craig Cowdrey: see a counsellor or a psychologist. So, at Sonder, we 35 00:01:57,410 --> 00:02:00,440 Craig Cowdrey: take a really different approach where we are broad in 36 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,090 Craig Cowdrey: the nature of our support and we're really proactive as well. So, 37 00:02:04,150 --> 00:02:05,700 Craig Cowdrey: when a company does sign on to Sonder, their staff receive 38 00:02:07,510 --> 00:02:10,299 Craig Cowdrey: a significantly different experience in levels of support. So, first 39 00:02:10,300 --> 00:02:12,600 Craig Cowdrey: of all, they get access to the Sonder app. That's a 40 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,410 Craig Cowdrey: critical part of the piece, and that's really their ticket 41 00:02:16,410 --> 00:02:21,410 Craig Cowdrey: to broad and comprehensive systems across three key pillars, physical safety, 42 00:02:21,850 --> 00:02:24,650 Craig Cowdrey: medical health, and mental wellness. There's a range of features 43 00:02:24,650 --> 00:02:27,639 Craig Cowdrey: and content in the app that provides, really, every day 44 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,410 Craig Cowdrey: and personalised on- demand support across those areas. The app 45 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,389 Craig Cowdrey: also securely connects those members by chat and phone to our 24/ 46 00:02:35,389 --> 00:02:39,120 Craig Cowdrey: 7 operations centre in Sydney, and that allows them to speak 47 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,730 Craig Cowdrey: to nurses, doctors, mental health professionals within seconds, any time 48 00:02:43,730 --> 00:02:46,339 Craig Cowdrey: of the day or night. Those experts will assist that 49 00:02:46,340 --> 00:02:50,880 Craig Cowdrey: person to triage and understand the issue that they're facing, provide immediate support, 50 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:55,010 Craig Cowdrey: and then ongoing support for that person going forward. And finally, 51 00:02:55,010 --> 00:02:58,180 Craig Cowdrey: the critical part of the support platform and service that 52 00:02:58,210 --> 00:03:00,720 Craig Cowdrey: we provide that you touched on is our ability to 53 00:03:00,740 --> 00:03:03,730 Craig Cowdrey: have physical responders on the ground by someone's side. So, 54 00:03:03,730 --> 00:03:06,810 Craig Cowdrey: we can get one of our people by someone's side within 55 00:03:06,810 --> 00:03:09,750 Craig Cowdrey: 20 minutes across 90% of the population. And that's using 56 00:03:09,750 --> 00:03:12,560 Craig Cowdrey: our own on- demand network of Sonder responders. These are 57 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:17,650 Craig Cowdrey: highly trained professionals, largely ex- or off-duty emergency services people. So, when 58 00:03:17,650 --> 00:03:20,419 Craig Cowdrey: you put all that together, our partners, you mentioned Woolworths, 59 00:03:20,419 --> 00:03:25,700 Craig Cowdrey: a number of others, we have about 40 large organisations, corporates, government, 60 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,339 Craig Cowdrey: as well as about half of Australia's universities through our Allianz Insurance 61 00:03:29,340 --> 00:03:32,459 Craig Cowdrey: partnership that really gain access to this one- stop solution 62 00:03:32,460 --> 00:03:35,310 Craig Cowdrey: to care for their people in every scenario you can imagine. 63 00:03:35,690 --> 00:03:39,410 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, if we take an example, and what you're talking 64 00:03:39,410 --> 00:03:43,190 Sean Aylmer: about just seems a lot more comprehensive than anything that 65 00:03:43,190 --> 00:03:46,610 Sean Aylmer: I've heard of previously. Domestic violence is a scourge on 66 00:03:46,610 --> 00:03:50,050 Sean Aylmer: Australian society at the moment, unfortunately, but is that the 67 00:03:50,050 --> 00:03:53,730 Sean Aylmer: sort of thing, which is often unrelated to the workplace, 68 00:03:54,170 --> 00:03:56,850 Sean Aylmer: that if I was an employee of an organisation that 69 00:03:56,850 --> 00:04:00,540 Sean Aylmer: was with Sonder and involved in a domestic violence dispute, 70 00:04:00,540 --> 00:04:01,540 Sean Aylmer: they could reach out to you? 71 00:04:01,990 --> 00:04:05,250 Craig Cowdrey: That's right. It is, unfortunately, an all too common occurrence 72 00:04:05,250 --> 00:04:07,500 Craig Cowdrey: and it is something that we help with on a 73 00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:12,490 Craig Cowdrey: daily basis. Often, when somebody contacts us, what they're contacting 74 00:04:12,490 --> 00:04:16,400 Craig Cowdrey: us about isn't the actual issue that is underlying. So, 75 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,700 Craig Cowdrey: it might present initially, for example, as a financial strain 76 00:04:19,860 --> 00:04:23,100 Craig Cowdrey: issue or financial concerns, once we unpack that, then we 77 00:04:23,100 --> 00:04:26,830 Craig Cowdrey: discover that they've got financial concerns because they've left the 78 00:04:26,830 --> 00:04:30,849 Craig Cowdrey: primary home with their children, so they have a domestic violence situation, 79 00:04:31,050 --> 00:04:33,779 Craig Cowdrey: they're in temporary accommodation, so suddenly now it's also a 80 00:04:33,779 --> 00:04:37,490 Craig Cowdrey: physical safety issue, it's a mental health issue as well 81 00:04:37,490 --> 00:04:40,529 Craig Cowdrey: as financial, and so it's multi- layered. So, when people 82 00:04:40,529 --> 00:04:44,010 Craig Cowdrey: contact us, we really unpack and triage and understand what's 83 00:04:44,010 --> 00:04:46,770 Craig Cowdrey: occurring. Of course, if it's at the threshold of emergency 84 00:04:46,770 --> 00:04:49,810 Craig Cowdrey: services, we don't get in the way and we'll facilitate that contact, 85 00:04:49,890 --> 00:04:52,930 Craig Cowdrey: but we'll also be there to provide ongoing support to 86 00:04:52,930 --> 00:04:56,849 Craig Cowdrey: that member. For example, if a domestic violence offender is 87 00:04:56,850 --> 00:04:59,560 Craig Cowdrey: apprehended by the authorities, we'll be there with the victim 88 00:04:59,650 --> 00:05:01,980 Craig Cowdrey: to provide support to them, for example, taking them to 89 00:05:01,980 --> 00:05:05,239 Craig Cowdrey: temporary accommodation, making sure that they're cared for and feel safe and secure. 90 00:05:05,460 --> 00:05:07,220 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Craig. We'll be back in a minute. 91 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:17,299 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Craig Cowdrey, co-founder and CEO of Sonder. Okay. 92 00:05:17,300 --> 00:05:20,270 Sean Aylmer: More broadly, 90% of the population within 20 minutes, you 93 00:05:20,270 --> 00:05:23,960 Sean Aylmer: must have a fairly big on-call workforce. 94 00:05:24,370 --> 00:05:27,980 Craig Cowdrey: We do. We have many hundreds of Sonder responders. These 95 00:05:27,980 --> 00:05:29,940 Craig Cowdrey: are men and women who are in the community, our 96 00:05:29,940 --> 00:05:32,790 Craig Cowdrey: force for good, we call them. They've spent decades serving 97 00:05:33,310 --> 00:05:36,620 Craig Cowdrey: the community in a variety of emergency services roles. They're 98 00:05:36,620 --> 00:05:39,520 Craig Cowdrey: available on- demand through the Sonder respond to app. They're 99 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,089 Craig Cowdrey: our employees, they're not contractors, and that allows us a 100 00:05:43,089 --> 00:05:45,529 Craig Cowdrey: high level of confidence to be able to meet that 101 00:05:45,529 --> 00:05:48,909 Craig Cowdrey: objective of rapid response on the ground. And we find 102 00:05:48,910 --> 00:05:50,779 Craig Cowdrey: that it's really high impact to be able to get 103 00:05:50,779 --> 00:05:53,730 Craig Cowdrey: into the field. We are a technology enabled company, so 104 00:05:53,730 --> 00:05:57,320 Craig Cowdrey: technology is really important, but sometimes nothing really beats getting 105 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,089 Craig Cowdrey: out of the digital world into the physical world by 106 00:05:59,089 --> 00:06:02,070 Craig Cowdrey: someone's side, to impact a situation on the ground. 107 00:06:02,410 --> 00:06:04,640 Sean Aylmer: I'm scared to ask this. How much demand is there 108 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:05,849 Sean Aylmer: for your services? 109 00:06:06,180 --> 00:06:09,210 Craig Cowdrey: Well, traditionally in the employee assistance space, you would see 110 00:06:09,210 --> 00:06:12,390 Craig Cowdrey: about 5-6% engagement or utilisation of services. 111 00:06:12,390 --> 00:06:17,460 Sean Aylmer: So, that's 5-6% of the employees engage in the services, is that what 112 00:06:17,650 --> 00:06:18,120 Sean Aylmer: that means? 113 00:06:18,470 --> 00:06:22,420 Craig Cowdrey: That's correct, Sean. So, about 5-6% of employees would engage with 114 00:06:22,420 --> 00:06:26,330 Craig Cowdrey: that employee assistance program or EAP as they're traditionally called. Our 115 00:06:26,330 --> 00:06:30,610 Craig Cowdrey: engagement rates are more around 40%, they're upwards of 70 to 80% 116 00:06:30,610 --> 00:06:33,250 Craig Cowdrey: for some of our clients. And the reason for that 117 00:06:33,250 --> 00:06:36,349 Craig Cowdrey: is because we have such a broad offering that provides 118 00:06:36,350 --> 00:06:39,870 Craig Cowdrey: a really every day value proposition. For example, we have 119 00:06:39,870 --> 00:06:44,390 Craig Cowdrey: proactive notifications that send alerts and content to people on 120 00:06:44,390 --> 00:06:47,380 Craig Cowdrey: a personalised basis, it might be everything from a mental 121 00:06:47,380 --> 00:06:51,140 Craig Cowdrey: health check- in, to telling them about the severe weather 122 00:06:51,140 --> 00:06:55,690 Craig Cowdrey: that's approaching, or a police operation that's nearby. And that 123 00:06:55,690 --> 00:06:59,520 Craig Cowdrey: builds high contact and high trust and familiarity with Sonder, and that 124 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,130 Craig Cowdrey: also then allows us to tap into those groups of 125 00:07:02,130 --> 00:07:05,839 Craig Cowdrey: people who wouldn't typically engage with a support program because 126 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,409 Craig Cowdrey: we start with low threshold use cases and then the relationship 127 00:07:09,410 --> 00:07:12,179 Craig Cowdrey: builds from there, and then we can tap into more critical issues 128 00:07:12,220 --> 00:07:13,611 Craig Cowdrey: they might be facing and assist them with that as well. 129 00:07:13,611 --> 00:07:16,970 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now, I mentioned Woolworths, you've been managing their workers 130 00:07:16,970 --> 00:07:21,370 Sean Aylmer: throughout the COVID crisis. Did COVID, in that instance, change 131 00:07:21,370 --> 00:07:23,090 Sean Aylmer: how people wanted to use Sonder? 132 00:07:23,830 --> 00:07:27,100 Craig Cowdrey: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we kicked off our partnership with Woolworths last year 133 00:07:27,100 --> 00:07:30,110 Craig Cowdrey: and they're just so big, I mean, 200,000 employees, we cover 134 00:07:30,110 --> 00:07:32,420 Craig Cowdrey: their families as well. So, it really is a cross- section 135 00:07:32,420 --> 00:07:34,800 Craig Cowdrey: of the whole Australian population, so that's pretty representative of 136 00:07:35,090 --> 00:07:37,070 Craig Cowdrey: all sorts of walks of life that we have in 137 00:07:37,070 --> 00:07:39,430 Craig Cowdrey: the country. So, every interaction we have with them is 138 00:07:39,430 --> 00:07:42,470 Craig Cowdrey: different that matches out well with our broad offering. In terms 139 00:07:42,470 --> 00:07:46,610 Craig Cowdrey: of COVID specifically, that has really caused, for obvious reasons, a 140 00:07:46,610 --> 00:07:49,040 Craig Cowdrey: lot of pressure and strain on everybody, but for Woolworths, 141 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,560 Craig Cowdrey: I mean, they've been feeding the country, working through really 142 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,670 Craig Cowdrey: complex and difficult conditions. And our role in supporting them 143 00:07:55,670 --> 00:07:59,050 Craig Cowdrey: has been early rapid comprehensive support for the mental health 144 00:07:59,050 --> 00:08:02,310 Craig Cowdrey: issues that are really sparked because of COVID anxiety, stress, 145 00:08:02,620 --> 00:08:06,020 Craig Cowdrey: fatigue related conditions, but right through to also helping their 146 00:08:06,020 --> 00:08:09,910 Craig Cowdrey: frontline workers to have the tools to deal with abusive or 147 00:08:09,910 --> 00:08:12,600 Craig Cowdrey: even violent customers, particularly in the early stages of the pandemic, 148 00:08:13,050 --> 00:08:15,880 Craig Cowdrey: who were stressed out themselves. And right through to also 149 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:21,410 Craig Cowdrey: supporting COVID positive staff, other staff in mandated isolation, wellbeing check- ins, 150 00:08:21,500 --> 00:08:24,290 Craig Cowdrey: physical check- ins on those people as well. We've also 151 00:08:24,300 --> 00:08:27,760 Craig Cowdrey: recently expanded our psychological supports to Woolworths staff and our 152 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,780 Craig Cowdrey: other customers in recognition of those increased needs. And they've 153 00:08:31,780 --> 00:08:33,890 Craig Cowdrey: done an amazing job over the last 18 months and 154 00:08:33,890 --> 00:08:36,260 Craig Cowdrey: we're pretty proud to play a role in supporting them 155 00:08:36,260 --> 00:08:37,050 Craig Cowdrey: behind the scenes. 156 00:08:37,410 --> 00:08:39,950 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now, you work alongside police and other emergency services. 157 00:08:39,950 --> 00:08:42,209 Sean Aylmer: You said before you get out of their way when 158 00:08:42,210 --> 00:08:45,280 Sean Aylmer: need be. I've also read that your technology was used 159 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,339 Sean Aylmer: to contact people after the Bourke Street attack in Melbourne 160 00:08:48,650 --> 00:08:51,550 Sean Aylmer: back in 2017 when a car was driven at pedestrians 161 00:08:51,550 --> 00:08:55,850 Sean Aylmer: and killed six people. Tell me about that and how that technology 162 00:08:55,850 --> 00:08:58,329 Sean Aylmer: was used and how you do interact with the police 163 00:08:58,330 --> 00:08:59,670 Sean Aylmer: and other emergency services. 164 00:09:00,190 --> 00:09:03,030 Craig Cowdrey: Sure. So yeah, physical safety is one of the core pillars 165 00:09:03,030 --> 00:09:06,480 Craig Cowdrey: that we assist with. It's really Maslow's hierarchy of needs, 166 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,480 Craig Cowdrey: if not physically safe, it's hard to do anything else. 167 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,200 Craig Cowdrey: And a part of our offering is a location- based alert system, 168 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,410 Craig Cowdrey: and that's what we used for the Bourke Street attack 169 00:09:14,410 --> 00:09:17,880 Craig Cowdrey: that you referenced. So, we have our own Sonder monitor system, 170 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,470 Craig Cowdrey: we call it, that scans the environment, open- source information 171 00:09:20,470 --> 00:09:23,040 Craig Cowdrey: and feeds looking for any incident that could impact the 172 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,470 Craig Cowdrey: safety and wellbeing of our members. In that instance, the 173 00:09:25,470 --> 00:09:29,070 Craig Cowdrey: system flagged that attack unfolding in its early stages. Our 174 00:09:29,070 --> 00:09:31,890 Craig Cowdrey: operation center here in Sydney then took rapid action. We 175 00:09:31,890 --> 00:09:34,069 Craig Cowdrey: sent an alert to all of our members in the 176 00:09:34,070 --> 00:09:37,770 Craig Cowdrey: Melbourne CBD. So, we geo- fenced the area. We had 177 00:09:37,770 --> 00:09:41,520 Craig Cowdrey: about 100 people in proximity to that attack, and I 178 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,510 Craig Cowdrey: think they were from across about five customers. We sent 179 00:09:44,510 --> 00:09:46,530 Craig Cowdrey: an alert to those people that tells them what's happening 180 00:09:46,590 --> 00:09:49,590 Craig Cowdrey: and also requires them to report in via the app 181 00:09:49,590 --> 00:09:52,540 Craig Cowdrey: whether they are safe or not safe. We had about 90% 182 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,490 Craig Cowdrey: report within a few minutes that they were safe, and 183 00:09:55,490 --> 00:09:58,760 Craig Cowdrey: in our operation centre on our map with real- time locations, 184 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,720 Craig Cowdrey: we could see those people in real- time moving away 185 00:10:01,950 --> 00:10:04,740 Craig Cowdrey: from the incident site. But we had about 10% who 186 00:10:04,740 --> 00:10:06,559 Craig Cowdrey: didn't respond at all. No one had said not safe, 187 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,890 Craig Cowdrey: but 10%, they hadn't looked at their phone or weren’t fast enough. 188 00:10:10,510 --> 00:10:14,309 Craig Cowdrey: We'd already mobilised responders in the area. These off duty 189 00:10:14,610 --> 00:10:18,589 Craig Cowdrey: or former emergency services and physical on the ground capability, 190 00:10:18,820 --> 00:10:21,240 Craig Cowdrey: so we deployed them to the hospitals where we knew 191 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,390 Craig Cowdrey: that the deceased and injured were being taken. So, those 192 00:10:24,390 --> 00:10:27,059 Craig Cowdrey: responders were able to engage with the emergency departments. Of course, 193 00:10:27,059 --> 00:10:29,490 Craig Cowdrey: the hospitals wouldn't release any information about who had been 194 00:10:29,490 --> 00:10:32,460 Craig Cowdrey: admitted for privacy reasons, but our responders could say, " I 195 00:10:32,460 --> 00:10:35,470 Craig Cowdrey: only have these people in there," and the outstanding number 196 00:10:35,470 --> 00:10:37,929 Craig Cowdrey: of people that we couldn't get hold of, and they 197 00:10:37,929 --> 00:10:41,099 Craig Cowdrey: quickly were able to say, "No, they're not." So, within about an 198 00:10:41,100 --> 00:10:44,110 Craig Cowdrey: hour or just under from the attack commencing, we had 199 00:10:44,110 --> 00:10:46,910 Craig Cowdrey: comfort that all of our members within the area were 200 00:10:46,910 --> 00:10:49,719 Craig Cowdrey: not impacted and to let those customers know straight away as well. 201 00:10:50,070 --> 00:10:52,880 Sean Aylmer: Wow. So, how many people on the platform do you have? 202 00:10:53,130 --> 00:10:56,840 Craig Cowdrey: So, we have about 400,000 people that we support across Australia 203 00:10:56,900 --> 00:11:01,080 Craig Cowdrey: and New Zealand across about 40 large organizations, as I mentioned, 204 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,280 Craig Cowdrey: as well as about half of Australia's universities. And so 205 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,730 Craig Cowdrey: we have about 130 staff full- time here in Sydney 206 00:11:09,030 --> 00:11:12,050 Craig Cowdrey: in our operations centre and supporting functions, and then we have our 207 00:11:12,330 --> 00:11:14,010 Craig Cowdrey: responder network on the ground as well. 208 00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:17,359 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So, what's next for Sonder? Is it continued growth in 209 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:18,640 Sean Aylmer: Australia, that's the goal? 210 00:11:18,910 --> 00:11:22,270 Craig Cowdrey: Absolutely. It is continued growth and consolidation in Australia and 211 00:11:22,270 --> 00:11:24,770 Craig Cowdrey: New Zealand. There's no shortage of organisations that we want 212 00:11:24,770 --> 00:11:27,069 Craig Cowdrey: to help to better support their people, but we do 213 00:11:27,070 --> 00:11:30,540 Craig Cowdrey: have a global ambition. Our ultimate vision is to provide 214 00:11:30,540 --> 00:11:34,570 Craig Cowdrey: global access on- demand and personalised support across safety, medical, 215 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,870 Craig Cowdrey: and mental health. We're obviously on our way in Australia 216 00:11:37,870 --> 00:11:40,770 Craig Cowdrey: and New Zealand, but the problems we're tackling here exist globally. 217 00:11:41,150 --> 00:11:43,719 Craig Cowdrey: And so we were keen to launch into the Northern 218 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,900 Craig Cowdrey: hemisphere next year and beyond, and that will be part of our 219 00:11:47,900 --> 00:11:50,070 Craig Cowdrey: strategy going forward. So, we really think that we're in 220 00:11:50,070 --> 00:11:53,260 Craig Cowdrey: the box seat to be that health, safety, and wellbeing tool that 221 00:11:53,260 --> 00:11:56,040 Craig Cowdrey: organisations can't live without. We've proven that out here, now 222 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:56,429 Craig Cowdrey: it's about scaling it globally. 223 00:11:56,429 --> 00:12:00,970 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now, you're a lawyer and then a diplomat, Craig, 224 00:12:00,970 --> 00:12:03,000 Sean Aylmer: and I think that's probably a great background for what 225 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,040 Sean Aylmer: you're doing. Your co- founders were army officers. Where did 226 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,210 Sean Aylmer: the idea of Sonder come from? I suppose it's such 227 00:12:10,210 --> 00:12:14,350 Sean Aylmer: an all encompassing service, far more so than an EAP, 228 00:12:14,350 --> 00:12:17,850 Sean Aylmer: the traditional EAP. I'm just interested in where the idea came from, 229 00:12:18,179 --> 00:12:21,150 Sean Aylmer: and then obviously, the army officers, logistics is such a 230 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,550 Sean Aylmer: big part of what you do, having people with that 231 00:12:23,550 --> 00:12:24,359 Sean Aylmer: background must help. 232 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,540 Craig Cowdrey: Yeah. I mean, ultimately, we'd spent careers in service being 233 00:12:28,540 --> 00:12:31,380 Craig Cowdrey: complex problem solvers. My two co- founders were special forces 234 00:12:31,380 --> 00:12:34,260 Craig Cowdrey: commanders for a number of years. I had finished up, when 235 00:12:34,260 --> 00:12:37,050 Craig Cowdrey: we started the business, a posting overseas they were finishing 236 00:12:37,050 --> 00:12:41,240 Craig Cowdrey: up in special forces command appointments. And the problem that 237 00:12:41,270 --> 00:12:44,059 Craig Cowdrey: we started out solving was really actually around the physical 238 00:12:44,059 --> 00:12:46,660 Craig Cowdrey: safety of government officials. I was a diplomat who was 239 00:12:46,660 --> 00:12:49,250 Craig Cowdrey: travelling the world, often on my own, and if I ever got into some 240 00:12:49,250 --> 00:12:51,000 Craig Cowdrey: sort of trouble, it would actually be the guys in 241 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,300 Craig Cowdrey: their roles who would be the ones to come and 242 00:12:52,300 --> 00:12:54,850 Craig Cowdrey: look for me and rescue me. And so we started 243 00:12:54,850 --> 00:12:58,120 Craig Cowdrey: off looking at location tracking, and alerts, and rapid response 244 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,300 Craig Cowdrey: for government officials, but we really quickly realised there was 245 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:04,589 Craig Cowdrey: a use case for that in the civilian population, that everybody 246 00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:07,290 Craig Cowdrey: should be entitled to that sort of capability to be 247 00:13:07,290 --> 00:13:09,929 Craig Cowdrey: able to provide support to them. And then we started 248 00:13:09,929 --> 00:13:12,980 Craig Cowdrey: off with that physical safety piece, but quickly, once we 249 00:13:12,980 --> 00:13:15,750 Craig Cowdrey: started engaging with members, and it started with students and 250 00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:19,070 Craig Cowdrey: then employees, we realized that there was a lot more 251 00:13:19,070 --> 00:13:22,460 Craig Cowdrey: going on than just safety. Issues were multi- level. Over 50% 252 00:13:22,460 --> 00:13:25,530 Craig Cowdrey: of the cases we deal with are multi- issue, meaning 253 00:13:25,530 --> 00:13:28,560 Craig Cowdrey: it cuts across physical or safety or medical. And so 254 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,280 Craig Cowdrey: we really broadened out our capability and took it from there. 255 00:13:31,580 --> 00:13:33,000 Sean Aylmer: Craig, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 256 00:13:33,530 --> 00:13:34,210 Craig Cowdrey: Thanks for having me, Sean. 257 00:13:34,570 --> 00:13:38,670 Sean Aylmer: That was Craig Cowdrey, co-founder and CEO of Sonder. This 258 00:13:38,670 --> 00:13:41,089 Sean Aylmer: is the Fear and Greed daily interview. Join me every morning 259 00:13:41,090 --> 00:13:43,010 Sean Aylmer: for the full Fear and Greed podcast, with all the 260 00:13:43,010 --> 00:13:45,360 Sean Aylmer: business news that you need to know. I'm Sean Aylmer. 261 00:13:45,890 --> 00:13:46,309 Sean Aylmer: Enjoy your day.