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Speaker 1: Approche production.

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Speaker 2: On a quiet April afternoon in twenty twenty four, thirty

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Speaker 2: nine year old Patrick Ledke walked out of his home

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Speaker 2: in Tweedheads and vanished. Patrick wasn't just anyone. He was

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Speaker 2: a son, a brother, an uncle, a cousin and an artist.

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Speaker 2: It was a gentle, creative soul, but also a man

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Speaker 2: living with a disability and complex mental health needs, vulnerable,

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Speaker 2: in need of care. And yet within days of being

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Speaker 2: discharged from hospital, Patrick disappeared without a trace. The timeline

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Speaker 2: reads like a mystery. April sixteen, discharged from Tweedthead's Hospital

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Speaker 2: April twenty two by support worker at home. The next day,

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Speaker 2: his car turns up abandoned. Hours later, two witnesses Spotty

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Speaker 2: walking bare foot along a road, and then nothing. Police

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Speaker 2: launched a massive search, drones, ground crews, even cross border

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Speaker 2: operations between New South Wales and Queensland, but by May first,

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Speaker 2: just over a week later, the search was called off. Officially,

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Speaker 2: the trail went cold. Unofficially, it never stopped. His sister,

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Speaker 2: Nicole has led her own relentless hunt with volunteers and

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Speaker 2: rescue experts, scouring the valleys and the ridgelines where Patrick

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Speaker 2: was last seen She's raised questions that the authorities haven't

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Speaker 2: yet answered in this so Nicole takes us inside her

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Speaker 2: fight to find her brother and cut through the red

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Speaker 2: tape that slowed his case and bring Patrick home because

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Speaker 2: Patrick matters.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to.

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Speaker 3: The Missing Matter. I'm super excited actually because I actually

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Speaker 3: have this person sitting in the room with me, and

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Speaker 3: it's so lovely to have someone sitting here in person,

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Speaker 3: have a hug and say hello. We have met before,

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Speaker 3: so it's nice to see you again. Welcome to the

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Speaker 3: Missing Matter, Nicole, let's kick.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Sally.

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Speaker 3: Today we're going to be talking about Patrick. Patrick's your

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Speaker 3: brother and he would now be forty.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Can you share with us a couple of cherished memories

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Speaker 3: you have of Patrick? And you know what best captures

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Speaker 3: who he is.

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Speaker 4: When I close my eyes and often just throughout the day,

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Speaker 4: different memories come back to me. We had free range childhood.

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Speaker 4: We grew up in a silver bus traveling up the

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Speaker 4: coast and Patty was always playing in the gurt with

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Speaker 4: nature with sticks, and as we grew older, he was

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Speaker 4: always climbing in trees. We sort of went out when

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Speaker 4: the sun rose and played in the neighborhood with all

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Speaker 4: the neighborhood kids on a canal in the water, out

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Speaker 4: of the water, just playing lots of games, and you

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Speaker 4: met with your cousins, and we did spend the whole

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Speaker 4: day doing a play that we were do to our parents.

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Speaker 4: We've got lots of photos of baby Patty sitting next

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Speaker 4: to me.

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Speaker 3: So you're older than Patrick. Yeah, they are all special memories,

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Speaker 3: aren't they. I remember rehearsing, so i would rehearse a

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Speaker 3: dance and then I'd make everyone sit down and go,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to do the dance now, and do my dance.

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Speaker 3: And I'm sure, with absolute horror my parents sitting there going.

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Speaker 1: Is it over yet?

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Speaker 3: But you know, sturing those moments is that it's really important.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's traveling around in a bus. That sounds very adventurous.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: We just packed up our life and we were looking

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Speaker 4: for a new place to live. So my dad and

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Speaker 4: my mum found a bus and they built to a

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Speaker 4: little house and Patty and I we both had the

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Speaker 4: top bunk, so our other siblings were below. There was

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Speaker 4: four siblings, so we'd be driving in the night, look

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Speaker 4: across to him at the top bunk, we're sort of

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Speaker 4: always together. We'd bump into each other just we wouldn't

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Speaker 4: organize to meet up. We'd just bump into each other

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Speaker 4: at our favorite Vedroo restaurant, Okay, just at the same time,

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Speaker 4: at the same place.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 4: So for me, it's quite complex and hard to wrap

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Speaker 4: my brain around because he's always been part of my

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Speaker 4: life too, because he was always a big part of

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Speaker 4: my life, and you know, he still is a big

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Speaker 4: part of my life, but he was always there in presence,

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Speaker 4: in physical presence. So over a year without him, it's

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Speaker 4: been a huge hole in my heart. Yeah, it's sometimes

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Speaker 4: your brain doesn't remember that he's missing.

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Speaker 3: Still very fresh for you, isn't it, Like this is

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Speaker 3: all very raw? So I totally understand that time. So Wan,

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Speaker 3: I wrap my arms around you and just know that

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Speaker 3: we're here to support you and help fine Patty and

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Speaker 3: bring him home for you.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 4: I appreciate talking to someone's lived experience who understands.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of good people out there who

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Speaker 3: mean really well, but I think having that experience and

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Speaker 3: understanding it really sincerely and deeply, and there is an

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Speaker 3: understanding that those of us who are living it have

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Speaker 3: that others don't really understand. So yeah, I think we're

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Speaker 3: in good company when we're supporting each other as well.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, the community that has come around me has

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Speaker 4: been amazing. But yeah, it's just people that haven't known

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Speaker 4: Patrick that have come to help. But I think also

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Speaker 4: acknowledging the pain of some people that may not have

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Speaker 4: been compassionate. You know, I'm just really really grateful for

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Speaker 4: all of the positive, but I want to acknowledge that

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Speaker 4: it's not all positive as well.

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Speaker 3: And I think maybe, in my opinion, some people just

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Speaker 3: don't know how to respond. You can tell somebody in

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Speaker 3: a situation that you know, my mum's a missing person,

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Speaker 3: and I'm sure you'd be the same that you get

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Speaker 3: different reactions, right, So some people like, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 3: I'm so sorry, what's happened? And other people just go

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Speaker 3: on with the conversation like you said nothing. So let's

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Speaker 3: talk about Patrick. So what aspects of Patrick's personality, like

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Speaker 3: his artistry's gentle nature, love of the nature that he displayed.

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Speaker 3: What do you want listeners to understand about him as person?

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Speaker 4: He's a beautiful, kind, gentle person. Yeah, he was always painting,

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Speaker 4: so his whole world and his whole life was a canvas.

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Speaker 1: His house it became an art studio.

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Speaker 4: He would paint at all times, you know, always have canvases.

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Speaker 1: We'd go walking and he'd be looking for.

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Speaker 4: Things that were shiny and he'd look at it with

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Speaker 4: the most amazing, white, happy eyes that he located something

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Speaker 4: for his next sculpture, his next artwork. So everything was

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Speaker 4: seen through the lens of an artist, seeing everything as

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Speaker 4: a piece of art. So I'd like to remember his

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Speaker 4: art history, and that's how he really wanted to be

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Speaker 4: remembered as an artist. It was very special to him,

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Speaker 4: very important.

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Speaker 3: So you mentioned that Patrick was described as neurodivergent with

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Speaker 3: complex mental health needs. How did these aspects shape his

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Speaker 3: creative expression and his connection to nature.

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Speaker 4: You know, neurodivergences that you may have different thinking to

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Speaker 4: other people. So you know, you see the world through

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Speaker 4: different lens, and it may be that a lot of

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Speaker 4: the world is designed for neurotypical people. There's a lot

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Speaker 4: of lights that are bright. He liked low dim lighting.

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Speaker 4: He liked low sounds. He were and he's canceling headsets.

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Speaker 4: He liked quiet spaces. I think when he painted, he

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Speaker 4: was in that world where he can bring out his

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Speaker 4: true inner self, which he was very very quiet person,

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Speaker 4: so he didn't say too much in words, but he

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Speaker 4: said a lot through art. So he wouldn't find any

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Speaker 4: writing or any diaries, but throughout his houses or pictures.

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Speaker 3: Which paint of story.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so you're wearing a feather in your hair.

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Speaker 3: Can you tell us a little bit about that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So he had real connection with nature and would

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Speaker 4: always wear feathers. So when he went missing, I just

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Speaker 4: felt really connected to nature and feathers like he did.

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Speaker 4: And I started wearing feathers, and I started finding feathers,

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Speaker 4: and even through really difficult periods of time, sometimes I'd

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Speaker 4: be crying through and then like a feather would be there,

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Speaker 4: and I'd know he was with me spiritually, and he

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Speaker 4: was just looking out for me as he did in life.

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Speaker 4: For me, I'd sort of collected all of these feathers.

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Speaker 4: They would just be like at the start of searchers

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Speaker 4: or the end of searchers, or for a period of

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Speaker 4: time there may not be it just was something that

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Speaker 4: came into my path. Was intactively seeking, they just were there.

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Speaker 4: I felt that it helped me throughout the journey. I

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Speaker 4: had this little altar team. So I'd collect the feathers

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Speaker 4: and some really amazing feathers, and I was learning a

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Speaker 4: bit more about those birds, like a pheasant cookle that

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Speaker 4: came visiting and hadn't seen this beautiful bird. Then one

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Speaker 4: of the search teams she knew how much the feathers

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Speaker 4: meant to me, and she gave those feathers to me.

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Speaker 4: We'd located on a property that was searching for Patrick,

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Speaker 4: and they'd be beautiful feathers or is that wind They're

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Speaker 4: like orange with black stripes, and it's just like a

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Speaker 4: beautiful bird with fans out. And actually saw the bird

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Speaker 4: few times. I saw it just outside my mum's house,

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Speaker 4: like how Patrick would come over all the time. And

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Speaker 4: then at Mother's Day it was in my driveway whomen

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Speaker 4: came home.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, yeah, and that's a nice comforting thought,

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Speaker 3: isn't it to know that we can sort of grasp

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Speaker 3: onto things like that and know that maybe they're they're

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Speaker 3: they're helping us guide us a little bit. Okay, well,

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Speaker 3: I know this is a very traumatic experience to go through.

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Speaker 3: I completely understand. But can we talk now about the

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Speaker 3: day he went missing? Yeah, Now, on the day he

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Speaker 3: disappeared he was last seen at his home at two

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Speaker 3: pm by his support person.

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Speaker 4: So we only have the information from the support worker.

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Speaker 4: He was discharged from hospital just right before that happened,

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Speaker 4: and then he just had returned home. So on that

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Speaker 4: day we got information from the support worker that he

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Speaker 4: wasn't feeling well and that he had gone to sleep. But

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Speaker 4: when I spoke with police, what their report was was

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Speaker 4: that he was packing up his car.

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Speaker 3: So he's with the support worker at home till two.

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Speaker 3: Was the support worker having a break the support work

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Speaker 3: from time and was going to come back later to

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Speaker 3: support him and put him to bed, And when they

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Speaker 3: came back, he wasn't there.

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Speaker 4: So they came back at six o'clock. Then they said

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Speaker 4: that they've knocked on the door and he's not answering,

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Speaker 4: so they're ring my mum and she went round there

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Speaker 4: to open the door to wait for him till the

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Speaker 4: end of the nine o'clock to see if he had returned.

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Speaker 4: But we do know that that's support worker left as

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Speaker 4: soon as my mum left and didn't make effort to stay.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's disappointing, isn't it?

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Speaker 1: Very painful?

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Speaker 3: And so the report that's come in from the police

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Speaker 3: version that he was seen packing up his car. Have

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Speaker 3: they alerted you as to who was the witness who

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Speaker 3: saw that happening.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is a support worker.

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Speaker 4: So we're just concerned about the two different inconsistent stories, okay.

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Speaker 3: And you're in such an early phase in this investigation

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Speaker 3: that you haven't obviously got to inquests and things like

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Speaker 3: that yet. And we're still holding hope that Patrick is

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Speaker 3: still alive and he's surviving in that area and hopefully

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Speaker 3: we will find him. That's the whole goal of us

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Speaker 3: helping share your story too. So just going back, it

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Speaker 3: was Monday, April twenty second, twenty twenty four that this happened.

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Speaker 3: On the next day pat tricks car was found at

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Speaker 3: Coppa kai and whereabouts his Coppa Kaie.

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Speaker 4: So Coppakaye is only like ten minutes from his house

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Speaker 4: in Tweetheads.

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Speaker 3: So if we're talking tweed Heads, Tweetheads is actually on

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Speaker 3: the border of New South Wales and Queensland, and so

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Speaker 3: is Coba Kaite in New South Wales.

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Speaker 4: Still Coppaqeye's in New South Wales, Okay. Yeah, So if

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Speaker 4: you know collin Gata Airport and then on the Queensland

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Speaker 4: side and then on the New South Wales side, it's Tweetheads.

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Speaker 4: Tweetheads is quite built up and then you go right,

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Speaker 4: it's quite rural. Yeah, so you're only ten minutes away

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Speaker 4: from town, but it's a lot of grazing farms and

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Speaker 4: rainforest areas quight close to the city.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Tweetheads is a big area that borders onto

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Speaker 3: New South Wales Queensland border. So that's a whole nother

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Speaker 3: thing we're going to talk about later as well, because

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Speaker 3: you and I that's something similar that you and I

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Speaker 3: have with our cases, that there is that Queensland New

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Speaker 3: South Wales problem. So what was your reaction when they

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Speaker 3: came across the car?

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Speaker 4: Well, we were only told on the Friday, So the

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Speaker 4: car was located and she reported that to police on

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Speaker 4: Tuesday or only told on Friday?

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Speaker 3: So then who is she? Who's the lady who reported it?

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Speaker 1: Just like a local community member?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so they found the car and just called the police.

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Speaker 4: She saw it on the Monday, but yeah, she reported

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Speaker 4: on the Tuesday. Oh okay, yep, she did see it

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Speaker 4: there on the Monday, the twenty second, she was on

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Speaker 4: number to report it and then on Tuesday she reported

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Speaker 4: it to police. She continued to report it every single day.

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Speaker 4: She did report it on Wednesday, the next day, then

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Speaker 4: she continued to report it on Thursday. It wasn't until

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Speaker 4: Thursday that there seemed to be taking attention. They actually

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Speaker 4: said to her that we've run the redro that's Patrick

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Speaker 4: Lidkey's car.

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Speaker 1: Do you know him?

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Speaker 4: And she said no. So they even asked her to

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Speaker 4: arrange a tow truck. To remember that, there was no

256
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Speaker 4: sort of urgency or follow up. So it's a very

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Speaker 4: big question because this was not told to me by police.

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Speaker 4: It was told to me by community.

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Speaker 3: So the police said to her, this person in the

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Speaker 3: community who's found your brother's car, can you organize a

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Speaker 3: tow truck? And where did they want to take the car?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Wow, I don't know why. I'm surprised.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: I'm just somethings you hear and you just go wow,

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Speaker 3: that's a bit next level. So he'd been reported as

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Speaker 3: missing at this point.

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Speaker 1: As he was reported missing on the.

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Speaker 3: Tuesday, Tuesday after he didn't come to Okay, supposedly leaving

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Speaker 3: but asleep at home.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: I can see your frustration and your confusion with all

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Speaker 3: of that, because it's quite confronting. Really, isn't it to

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Speaker 3: know that there's such an imbalance in the information.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's beyond devastating. I know that if they had

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Speaker 4: gone there immediately. He was walking around on Wednesday, the

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Speaker 4: twenty fourth of April and very close to the location

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Speaker 4: of his car. His shoe was found outside of his car.

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Speaker 4: Because what they do with the search radius, they do

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Speaker 4: the four point seven kilometer radius, but the time, how

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Speaker 4: far you can travel in a day. Timing is really

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Speaker 4: really important in missing person searches.

283
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Speaker 3: Yeah, action straight away, don't wait.

284
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Speaker 5: I know.

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Speaker 3: I was watching a TV show last night actually with

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Speaker 3: Chris and someone went missing and they went in and

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Speaker 3: reported the person missing. They said, oh, come back and

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Speaker 3: talk to me in forty eight hours, and I just

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Speaker 3: I just shook my head, thinking, why are you even

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Speaker 3: promoting that on a TV show that that's the norm,

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Speaker 3: because it's so detrimentald. So we lose really valuable and

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Speaker 3: important information in that critical time. Action needs to be

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Speaker 3: taken more so. And I guess that all comes down

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Speaker 3: to the police saying, oh, well, we lack resources, we

295
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Speaker 3: don't have time to go on do that. But that's

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Speaker 3: why we probably need an agency or you know, I

297
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Speaker 3: don't know. It's something to help us where we can

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Speaker 3: actually put those methods into play straight away and immediately

299
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Speaker 3: as soon as we know someone is missing, we will

300
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Speaker 3: put those actions out because.

301
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Speaker 1: It's similar to an emergency.

302
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Speaker 4: It should have an immediate response, it should have a

303
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Speaker 4: missing person team out there.

304
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Speaker 1: And if I agree, I think you know.

305
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Speaker 4: The question about resource is if you go and have

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Speaker 4: a look at Tweed Police Station. It's a very large,

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Speaker 4: twenty four hour, well resourced police station.

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Speaker 1: It's not a local small rule.

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Speaker 3: It's massive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And they use it as a bit of a hub too,

312
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Speaker 3: don't they, Because I've been there twice. I went there

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Speaker 3: in twenty ten myself to do my first statement a

314
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Speaker 3: long time after my mum had been missing, and then

315
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Speaker 3: I had to go back down when the homicide team

316
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Speaker 3: took over because there were errors in that first statement

317
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Speaker 3: and I needed to have them corrected.

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Speaker 4: So between and the twenty four hours, there's a lot

319
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Speaker 4: of twenty four hours in between before they started searching.

320
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Speaker 4: So the missing person elurch and go out Thursday, the

321
00:17:06,041 --> 00:17:10,360
Speaker 4: twenty fifth of April, and then on Friday they rang

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Speaker 4: in the morning and my mom was she was just

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Speaker 4: like she was just like Nick Niki and I knew

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Speaker 4: something had happened, and she said they found his car,

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Speaker 4: and I had information from the police that they wanted

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Speaker 4: me to identify something. So just my brain went to

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Speaker 4: the worst possible scenario. It was just the most horrendous experience.

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Speaker 3: And that's a long time. We're talking like four days effectively,

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Speaker 3: aren't we. So I'm so sorry that you had to

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Speaker 3: do that. And I know that you've told me about

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Speaker 3: these footprints which you found right in crumbin Valley YEP,

332
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Speaker 3: which is for those again who aren't geographically in the space,

333
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Speaker 3: this is actually now back in Queensland.

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Speaker 4: So I was on the police search which started on

335
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Speaker 4: this Saturday. On the Sunday, they told me that they

336
00:17:59,481 --> 00:18:01,881
Speaker 4: were looking at packing up and everyone was going back

337
00:18:01,921 --> 00:18:05,401
Speaker 4: to work and the volunteers would end the search. So

338
00:18:05,441 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 4: they were looking at wrapping up the search after two days.

339
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Speaker 4: So I brought friends with me and family, my sister's partner,

340
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Speaker 4: and we were searching with them and I said, what's

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Speaker 4: up that way the road Like I was just following

342
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Speaker 4: the straight road and they said, that's crumbin Valley.

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Speaker 1: There's a road keeps going.

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Speaker 4: Up dirt track on a private property that goes to

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Speaker 4: crumbin Valley.

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Speaker 1: So I just said, where does that road go?

347
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Speaker 4: And the police said, oh, we can't search that, that's Queensland.

348
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Speaker 1: So I said, I'm going to search that. I just

349
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Speaker 1: have a feeling.

350
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Speaker 4: I had just like an intuity of feeling to search

351
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Speaker 4: that way. It was actually the section that we're working.

352
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Speaker 4: It was still pigger Bean and the majority of the

353
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Speaker 4: footsteps were in New South Wales and there were some

354
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Speaker 4: footsteps that went into Queensland as well, so both in

355
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Speaker 4: both states. And that's when I called the police that

356
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Speaker 4: was leading the search over the weekend and I said,

357
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Speaker 4: I found a huge series of footprints. They're walking in

358
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Speaker 4: both directions and then Intoansland, right in the mud. And

359
00:19:07,001 --> 00:19:10,520
Speaker 4: right then the rain came, right and when the police

360
00:19:10,561 --> 00:19:12,801
Speaker 4: came on Monday, that rain had washed it away. It

361
00:19:12,921 --> 00:19:16,920
Speaker 4: was like I'd found it just before it started, you know,

362
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 4: started a downpour, and we started measuring them and taking

363
00:19:20,561 --> 00:19:22,920
Speaker 4: photos with the police and searching around.

364
00:19:23,721 --> 00:19:28,761
Speaker 3: Wow, I'm trying to process. Yeah, I'm trying to think

365
00:19:28,801 --> 00:19:31,200
Speaker 3: of you doing that and thinking how traumatic that is

366
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Speaker 3: even in itself. So were you there taking photographs of

367
00:19:34,681 --> 00:19:38,400
Speaker 3: the footprints before the police even came, good on you,

368
00:19:38,561 --> 00:19:39,841
Speaker 3: Good on you for doing that.

369
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Speaker 4: And measuring them, like, yeah, size thirteen and to be

370
00:19:43,721 --> 00:19:46,920
Speaker 4: walking barefoot. The police also asked, and we were in

371
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Speaker 4: the back of the police. Family went to the owner

372
00:19:49,241 --> 00:19:54,001
Speaker 4: and they said, it's anyone been walking outside barefoot to know, So,

373
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Speaker 4: you know, they did some areas, but the police are

374
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Speaker 4: saint could have been another person that was walking barefoot.

375
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Speaker 1: But I just felt that it was so close to

376
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Speaker 1: the timeline.

377
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:07,161
Speaker 4: I felt like an intuitive feeling just seeing the footprints, and.

378
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,001
Speaker 3: So the measurements would have measured up with Patrick's foot

379
00:20:10,041 --> 00:20:10,401
Speaker 3: as well.

380
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:11,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

381
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, And were his shoes found or anything like that

382
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,481
Speaker 3: or they in the car or near the car.

383
00:20:16,801 --> 00:20:19,801
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was wearing slides, so that was found by

384
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,640
Speaker 4: a police when they looked at the car. So that

385
00:20:22,801 --> 00:20:25,440
Speaker 4: was initially when he walked out and Copper Coye walked

386
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Speaker 4: down to this paddock bush land and it was all

387
00:20:28,521 --> 00:20:32,041
Speaker 4: boggy and it was like he stepped and I might

388
00:20:32,041 --> 00:20:34,201
Speaker 4: thought he was just stepped and then it came off

389
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Speaker 4: and he just kept walking because that didn't really matter

390
00:20:37,281 --> 00:20:37,561
Speaker 4: to him.

391
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Speaker 1: He was just yeah, yeah, okay. He was just in

392
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Speaker 1: the moment.

393
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 3: And so I remember you telling me, and I know

394
00:20:44,761 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 3: this causes you somewhat of a lot of anger and frustration,

395
00:20:49,041 --> 00:20:51,961
Speaker 3: so I apologize for bringing it up. But you did

396
00:20:52,001 --> 00:20:54,161
Speaker 3: tell me that there was a sighting of someone who

397
00:20:54,281 --> 00:20:57,921
Speaker 3: saw him coming out of the bush covered in mud

398
00:20:57,961 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 3: and disorientated. Can you tell our listeners what happened in

399
00:21:01,521 --> 00:21:02,001
Speaker 3: that moment?

400
00:21:03,001 --> 00:21:07,001
Speaker 4: Well, actually, I walked what eye speculator is Patrick's route,

401
00:21:07,041 --> 00:21:10,361
Speaker 4: like just working out from the car down to that siding.

402
00:21:10,561 --> 00:21:10,801
Speaker 1: Yep.

403
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,961
Speaker 4: So I went from the car where it was parked,

404
00:21:14,281 --> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 4: and then with a group of volunteers and my sister

405
00:21:17,441 --> 00:21:19,961
Speaker 4: and actually when I came out of the bushland, i'd

406
00:21:20,001 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 4: met a farmer and actually at that point then media

407
00:21:23,521 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 4: was coming up to interview me. That was only a

408
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 4: couple of weeks after he went missing and the search stopped,

409
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 4: so'd media coming and he told me the story that

410
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,801
Speaker 4: he'd seen Patrick and he'd come out out nearly similar

411
00:21:36,801 --> 00:21:39,321
Speaker 4: to where I'd come out, just following that route at

412
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 4: the same point. And he told me that he asked

413
00:21:41,441 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 4: him it was okay, and he didn't respond.

414
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 1: So this was two days after he went missing.

415
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,321
Speaker 4: He was seen by this farmer, Okay, okay, So you know,

416
00:21:51,441 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 4: I just think if the car was reported on the Tuesday.

417
00:21:54,441 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 4: He was reported missing on the Tuesday, And if we

418
00:21:57,681 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 4: had like a missing person brief out before the Thursday,

419
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:06,041
Speaker 4: there would be more awareness to report that. So you know,

420
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:10,281
Speaker 4: he saw him walking, he was covered in march, he

421
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 4: only had shorts on, he had his shirt wrapped around

422
00:22:13,681 --> 00:22:18,400
Speaker 4: his shoulders, no water or any supplies on him, walking barefoot,

423
00:22:18,681 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 4: and then he was just walking up Piggabin rude and

424
00:22:21,001 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 4: then at the end of walking, right at the end

425
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:31,481
Speaker 4: where he saw another farmer saw him in a similar state.

426
00:22:31,561 --> 00:22:34,801
Speaker 3: But see if the alert had been out and those

427
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 3: farmers knew that he was a missing person or that

428
00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:42,801
Speaker 3: there was someone missing who was neuro divergent and needed help,

429
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 3: potentially the awareness would have been highlighted and been more productive.

430
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 2: Right.

431
00:22:50,481 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 3: I know there's an element because you and I have

432
00:22:52,921 --> 00:22:55,920
Speaker 3: talked about this of upset that if you see someone

433
00:22:55,921 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 3: and they're in that position and they're covered in mud

434
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,481
Speaker 3: and they're not talking, that there would be a trauma

435
00:23:01,521 --> 00:23:04,001
Speaker 3: behind that for you as well, that you know, these

436
00:23:04,041 --> 00:23:07,801
Speaker 3: people have seen him and they didn't report him or

437
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,761
Speaker 3: didn't mention it to anybody, because one they probably didn't

438
00:23:11,801 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 3: know he was a missing person because there was no

439
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,921
Speaker 3: awareness about that in that location, which should be the

440
00:23:17,961 --> 00:23:21,281
Speaker 3: first and foremost. You know, if he doesn't have to

441
00:23:21,321 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 3: be worldwide news, right, but at least do it on

442
00:23:24,001 --> 00:23:26,001
Speaker 3: the local news and on the local papers and say

443
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,361
Speaker 3: this man is missing. Can everyone please keep an eye

444
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 3: out for him. He needs some help. If you see him,

445
00:23:31,281 --> 00:23:33,641
Speaker 3: please let us know. But that didn't happen.

446
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 4: Like it's heart ranching. It's just life changing. It's just

447
00:23:37,441 --> 00:23:40,441
Speaker 4: like a lifeline gone, you know. It felt like the

448
00:23:40,481 --> 00:23:43,321
Speaker 4: car he had a lifeline gone. And then I think

449
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:46,281
Speaker 4: actually talking to the final was helpful, yeah, for me

450
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:48,201
Speaker 4: because it was told to me in a different way

451
00:23:48,241 --> 00:23:48,961
Speaker 4: from police.

452
00:23:50,001 --> 00:23:51,521
Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad to hear that you got to talk

453
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,281
Speaker 3: to him as well, because that element in a missing

454
00:23:55,321 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 3: person's case, it's a stamp, right, it's a dot point,

455
00:23:58,041 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 3: it's a timeline that you can go, right, oh, will

456
00:24:00,481 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 3: we know that happened now, and you can put that

457
00:24:02,241 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 3: on Patrick's timeline and then you've got the gentleman up

458
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,521
Speaker 3: the on the same road seeing him as well. So

459
00:24:06,561 --> 00:24:10,041
Speaker 3: that's another time stamp for him which we can keep.

460
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 3: But devastating at the same time, that was the last

461
00:24:13,921 --> 00:24:18,041
Speaker 3: no one siding, right, So we're talking the same week

462
00:24:18,561 --> 00:24:19,801
Speaker 3: as he went missing.

463
00:24:20,241 --> 00:24:20,521
Speaker 1: Days.

464
00:24:21,321 --> 00:24:25,121
Speaker 3: Let's talk about the police search timeline, because I think

465
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,561
Speaker 3: this is really important for people to understand what happens

466
00:24:27,561 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 3: when someone goes missing. And in my circumstances, my mum's

467
00:24:32,961 --> 00:24:36,321
Speaker 3: been missing twenty eight years. I had a situation where

468
00:24:36,321 --> 00:24:38,761
Speaker 3: I walked into the police station told them something was wrong.

469
00:24:38,801 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 3: They've listed her as an occurrence only within twenty four hours,

470
00:24:41,921 --> 00:24:45,041
Speaker 3: no further action required until Yeah, I think it says

471
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 3: due to other work priorities. So we're fast forward to

472
00:24:49,241 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 3: Patrick's missing twenty six years after my mum. Are we

473
00:24:53,921 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 3: seeing a lot of difference here or are we seeing

474
00:24:56,481 --> 00:25:00,360
Speaker 3: action by police? Are we seeing support for you?

475
00:25:02,041 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 1: I don't know.

476
00:25:02,761 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 4: I still feel that the significant delay in the time,

477
00:25:07,001 --> 00:25:10,521
Speaker 4: I just have concerns, particularly when he do the risk assessment,

478
00:25:11,281 --> 00:25:13,801
Speaker 4: he met a lot of the criteria and he was

479
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:19,561
Speaker 4: categorized as high risk. So he's neurodiversion, he's disabled person.

480
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,521
Speaker 3: So that changed the police perspective on listing him as

481
00:25:23,561 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 3: a missing person.

482
00:25:25,281 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 4: Do you think I think that's what's done by the

483
00:25:27,921 --> 00:25:31,801
Speaker 4: search teams after Oh, but I think the initial stage

484
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 4: with detectives, I think that needs a lot of improvement

485
00:25:36,201 --> 00:25:38,761
Speaker 4: because I think, you know, he'd be sitting right here.

486
00:25:41,001 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 3: I know there was like a multi agency search that

487
00:25:44,561 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 3: was launched on the twenty seventh of April, so just

488
00:25:48,001 --> 00:25:50,561
Speaker 3: going back in a timeline, so he's missing the twenty

489
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,001
Speaker 3: second of April, that's the last night that he's seen

490
00:25:53,961 --> 00:25:58,321
Speaker 3: and then they suspended it on May first, so it

491
00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:01,801
Speaker 3: was only five days. And how did you feel when

492
00:26:02,241 --> 00:26:04,321
Speaker 3: they decided to suspend it.

493
00:26:05,281 --> 00:26:08,001
Speaker 4: I felt a lot of betrayal that they were leaving

494
00:26:08,001 --> 00:26:10,561
Speaker 4: my brother, a disable person in the bush to die.

495
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,561
Speaker 1: It was incomprehensible.

496
00:26:13,481 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 4: So at the end of the fifth day, I had

497
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 4: spoke to officers and they said that they were going

498
00:26:21,681 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 4: to have a day where they were doing planning for

499
00:26:23,961 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 4: his next search, so they weren't physically searching. They were

500
00:26:28,481 --> 00:26:30,321
Speaker 4: going to be planning and they would come back with

501
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,481
Speaker 4: a renewed search area the following day. So I rang

502
00:26:34,521 --> 00:26:37,761
Speaker 4: Queensland Police and I said, just following up about the

503
00:26:37,801 --> 00:26:40,681
Speaker 4: search for tomorrow. What's the plan, what's command post?

504
00:26:40,681 --> 00:26:41,201
Speaker 1: What time?

505
00:26:42,001 --> 00:26:44,360
Speaker 4: They said, yep, we're ready to go. We're just waiting

506
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:48,481
Speaker 4: for New South Wales place to come back. That's when

507
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,041
Speaker 4: I rang New South Wales Police and they told me

508
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 4: over the phone that they were suspending the search.

509
00:26:56,441 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 3: Okay, so you made the call, I made them to

510
00:26:59,561 --> 00:27:03,561
Speaker 3: tell you that they're suspending okay. So am I correct

511
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,761
Speaker 3: in thinking that because he was reported to New South

512
00:27:07,761 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: Wales Police like my mum's case, he then becomes a

513
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,201
Speaker 3: New South Wales Police missing person and they hold carriage

514
00:27:16,241 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 3: of the case. So therefore, when you're contacting Queensland Police

515
00:27:19,441 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 3: exactly like we did, I'm told that New South Wales

516
00:27:23,681 --> 00:27:26,041
Speaker 3: have carriage of the case. So we can't do anything.

517
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 3: We need to wait for them. This is something that

518
00:27:30,041 --> 00:27:32,921
Speaker 3: I really want to focus on in this missing space

519
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 3: and saying and making awareness and saying we should be

520
00:27:36,321 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 3: under one umbrella. It should not be state by state,

521
00:27:39,681 --> 00:27:42,721
Speaker 3: because as we've just experienced with Patrick, he's gone from

522
00:27:43,001 --> 00:27:45,321
Speaker 3: footprints on one side of the border to footprints on

523
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:47,241
Speaker 3: the other. One's going, well, we're not going to look

524
00:27:47,241 --> 00:27:49,041
Speaker 3: at it because they're in Queensland and the other world.

525
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 3: We can't look at it because they've got carriage of

526
00:27:50,961 --> 00:27:54,321
Speaker 3: the case. It should not be happening in twenty twenty five,

527
00:27:54,681 --> 00:27:58,561
Speaker 3: after everything that's been brought to the surface and spoken

528
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,121
Speaker 3: about openly, and you know there are people out there

529
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 3: that tell their stories because we want to make things

530
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,761
Speaker 3: better in this space. I think, you know, I'm really

531
00:28:07,801 --> 00:28:12,001
Speaker 3: sorry that you had to make that call. I completely

532
00:28:12,321 --> 00:28:15,321
Speaker 3: get that because it's a similar thing to me as well,

533
00:28:15,961 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 3: and I just think that needs to change. Like I'm

534
00:28:18,201 --> 00:28:22,521
Speaker 3: devastated to know that there's no learning through the system.

535
00:28:22,721 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 3: So I wanted to bring to the attention that in

536
00:28:25,041 --> 00:28:28,481
Speaker 3: June twenty twenty five, as part of a training operation

537
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:34,401
Speaker 3: involving over one hundred SES ANDVA personnel, they resumed searching.

538
00:28:34,681 --> 00:28:37,521
Speaker 3: Was it just for Patrick? Yeah, okay, and how did

539
00:28:37,561 --> 00:28:38,321
Speaker 3: that come about?

540
00:28:38,961 --> 00:28:42,361
Speaker 4: At the end of Patrick's official search, one of the

541
00:28:42,441 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 4: Queensland Police officers said a training search would happen. So

542
00:28:46,561 --> 00:28:51,481
Speaker 4: Queensland Police run regular training searches. So I was invited

543
00:28:51,521 --> 00:28:53,801
Speaker 4: to a meeting with Queensland and New South Wales Police

544
00:28:53,961 --> 00:28:57,401
Speaker 4: and we're just discussing the case, and I was just

545
00:28:57,441 --> 00:28:58,481
Speaker 4: like advocating.

546
00:28:58,641 --> 00:29:01,161
Speaker 1: I said that you've spoken. I had a list of

547
00:29:01,201 --> 00:29:02,281
Speaker 1: things that.

548
00:29:02,201 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 4: I wanted to bring up, and one of those was

549
00:29:04,721 --> 00:29:09,121
Speaker 4: you stated that there would be a training search. New

550
00:29:09,121 --> 00:29:11,721
Speaker 4: South Wales Police said, no, we don't do that. Queensland

551
00:29:11,761 --> 00:29:14,401
Speaker 4: Police said, Patrick's on the top of the list, but

552
00:29:14,441 --> 00:29:16,761
Speaker 4: not to hold your heart onto it. Someone else may

553
00:29:16,881 --> 00:29:20,721
Speaker 4: get reprioritized. So that was in August twenty twenty four.

554
00:29:20,881 --> 00:29:21,761
Speaker 1: I was informed.

555
00:29:22,081 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 4: I kept asking in August and then they said that

556
00:29:24,761 --> 00:29:27,641
Speaker 4: the training search would be in September twenty twenty four

557
00:29:27,681 --> 00:29:29,321
Speaker 4: and they said, you know, that's a long way away,

558
00:29:29,321 --> 00:29:32,561
Speaker 4: and so I just kept advocating for it, and New

559
00:29:32,601 --> 00:29:36,241
Speaker 4: South Wales Police came back and they said that they

560
00:29:36,241 --> 00:29:38,841
Speaker 4: would be doing that. They'd applied to the State Rescue

561
00:29:38,841 --> 00:29:42,041
Speaker 4: Board for some additional funding, so they also had to

562
00:29:42,041 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 4: do a training. They did some sort of training exercise.

563
00:29:45,481 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 4: After all, I wasn't part of that. I continued searching

564
00:29:48,441 --> 00:29:49,281
Speaker 4: for Patrick.

565
00:29:49,481 --> 00:29:51,841
Speaker 3: And do they use tracking dogs or anything like that

566
00:29:51,881 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: in these searches.

567
00:29:53,241 --> 00:29:56,641
Speaker 4: They did have four dogs on that search that came up.

568
00:29:56,721 --> 00:30:00,321
Speaker 4: And one of the VRA members we went to school together.

569
00:30:00,601 --> 00:30:04,681
Speaker 4: What's the VRA stand for VRAS the Volunteer Rescue Association,

570
00:30:05,601 --> 00:30:08,761
Speaker 4: So yeah, we went to school together, and you said

571
00:30:08,761 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 4: that he really advocated for the search dogs, and they

572
00:30:11,561 --> 00:30:14,401
Speaker 4: also said that they've been following along and they really

573
00:30:14,441 --> 00:30:15,961
Speaker 4: wanted to be a part of it, so they brought

574
00:30:16,041 --> 00:30:17,881
Speaker 4: up their search dogs.

575
00:30:18,241 --> 00:30:20,481
Speaker 3: Well, I'm really impressed. I'm going to say that one

576
00:30:20,521 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 3: of the things that has been a standout for me

577
00:30:22,641 --> 00:30:25,881
Speaker 3: with you following along and living in this missing space

578
00:30:25,921 --> 00:30:29,041
Speaker 3: for such a long time now that you are a

579
00:30:29,081 --> 00:30:32,721
Speaker 3: standout nick in everything you've done with your searching, and

580
00:30:33,361 --> 00:30:35,761
Speaker 3: you know your petitions to get out there. I'm going

581
00:30:35,801 --> 00:30:38,321
Speaker 3: here this weekend if anyone can please come and help.

582
00:30:39,081 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 3: Absolutely amazing. So I can only imagine I don't have

583
00:30:43,361 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 3: that part of my mum's story to like where I

584
00:30:45,961 --> 00:30:49,121
Speaker 3: physically could go and search in a location as such.

585
00:30:49,201 --> 00:30:51,401
Speaker 3: But I take my hat off to you, and I'm

586
00:30:51,441 --> 00:30:54,521
Speaker 3: so happy every time I read something that there's a

587
00:30:54,561 --> 00:30:57,001
Speaker 3: group of people that are coming together and you post

588
00:30:57,001 --> 00:31:00,601
Speaker 3: photos and so you are your efforts second to none,

589
00:31:00,721 --> 00:31:04,681
Speaker 3: so well done on that you've leaked communities with searching,

590
00:31:04,801 --> 00:31:09,401
Speaker 3: with volunteers, drones, therm or imaging trackers, dingoes. I personally

591
00:31:09,441 --> 00:31:12,681
Speaker 3: think that's quite remarkable. What has kept you going through

592
00:31:12,721 --> 00:31:16,081
Speaker 3: all of these daily efforts.

593
00:31:15,681 --> 00:31:19,081
Speaker 4: Well, I think that connection with community. I think all

594
00:31:19,121 --> 00:31:23,121
Speaker 4: those people standing and saying that they too see the

595
00:31:23,201 --> 00:31:26,681
Speaker 4: value and they're able to give up their time on

596
00:31:26,721 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 4: their weekends or their weekdays with their families, just that

597
00:31:32,121 --> 00:31:35,681
Speaker 4: human being helping another human being that's in need. And

598
00:31:35,721 --> 00:31:38,841
Speaker 4: I think I just have had all these beautiful experiences

599
00:31:38,881 --> 00:31:40,081
Speaker 4: of people just showing up.

600
00:31:40,161 --> 00:31:43,601
Speaker 3: Can you share with us one of those meaningful time

601
00:31:43,721 --> 00:31:45,841
Speaker 3: so you've spent with somebody who's been helping you.

602
00:31:46,681 --> 00:31:50,041
Speaker 4: Oh, there's so many times. For me, I'm very scared

603
00:31:50,041 --> 00:31:53,641
Speaker 4: of heights. This has required me to challenge myself. So

604
00:31:53,761 --> 00:31:56,681
Speaker 4: you've got to climb up quite rocky ledges. And I've

605
00:31:56,801 --> 00:32:01,001
Speaker 4: had like examy and they're sort of directing me where

606
00:32:01,041 --> 00:32:02,921
Speaker 4: to put my hand up. And when I think I

607
00:32:02,961 --> 00:32:06,321
Speaker 4: can't go further and the world is around me, it's

608
00:32:06,401 --> 00:32:08,401
Speaker 4: just like a soft voice, Okay, just reach up a

609
00:32:08,441 --> 00:32:11,561
Speaker 4: little bit further, put your arm up. I think we've

610
00:32:11,601 --> 00:32:13,841
Speaker 4: had people run up, come to the search area and

611
00:32:13,921 --> 00:32:16,721
Speaker 4: just offer a hug, or come to their property.

612
00:32:17,761 --> 00:32:20,161
Speaker 3: Sometimes just getting a hug is just all you need,

613
00:32:20,281 --> 00:32:23,361
Speaker 3: right Like I know, people come up to me sometimes too,

614
00:32:23,441 --> 00:32:26,081
Speaker 3: and I'll be getting a coffee and they'll come back

615
00:32:26,121 --> 00:32:27,761
Speaker 3: and say, I hope you don't mind me coming up

616
00:32:27,761 --> 00:32:29,641
Speaker 3: and letting you know I know your story and I

617
00:32:29,681 --> 00:32:31,641
Speaker 3: just wanted to give you a hug and say you're brave.

618
00:32:31,961 --> 00:32:36,281
Speaker 3: And the power that that brings to a person, it

619
00:32:36,321 --> 00:32:37,401
Speaker 3: can just lift you up.

620
00:32:37,521 --> 00:32:39,161
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is the power for the community.

621
00:32:39,241 --> 00:32:44,401
Speaker 4: I think in missing person cases predominantly, I think often

622
00:32:44,521 --> 00:32:47,001
Speaker 4: it's just a small piece of information from the community

623
00:32:47,121 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 4: that really really helped.

624
00:32:49,041 --> 00:32:52,281
Speaker 3: You've mentioned to me the invisible New South Wales Queensland

625
00:32:52,321 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: border and the complicated coordination. Can you talk more about

626
00:32:56,521 --> 00:32:59,321
Speaker 3: how that affected the speed and the efficiency of the search.

627
00:33:00,441 --> 00:33:03,961
Speaker 4: Well, I just draw back to just one experience where

628
00:33:04,761 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 4: I was with police dogs for New South Wales and

629
00:33:07,761 --> 00:33:10,041
Speaker 4: we got to a point We're at the border and

630
00:33:10,081 --> 00:33:13,561
Speaker 4: he couldn't search over it. And then I was with

631
00:33:13,681 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 4: Queensland Police on the other side with their police dogs

632
00:33:17,401 --> 00:33:19,601
Speaker 4: and then we got to a point and then we

633
00:33:19,641 --> 00:33:21,801
Speaker 4: couldn't go over it.

634
00:33:22,041 --> 00:33:23,641
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just complicating.

635
00:33:23,721 --> 00:33:26,761
Speaker 4: I think if you have like a one central point

636
00:33:26,801 --> 00:33:30,681
Speaker 4: and one person working predominantly a missing person like I think,

637
00:33:30,721 --> 00:33:33,761
Speaker 4: if you understand all the research around how important the

638
00:33:33,881 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 4: urgency is and how important like borders don't matter, like

639
00:33:37,921 --> 00:33:40,081
Speaker 4: I think if you look at Aboriginal torres straight on

640
00:33:40,161 --> 00:33:44,641
Speaker 4: under cultures borders with physical borders, there was a physical

641
00:33:44,881 --> 00:33:48,801
Speaker 4: river and that defined borders. But with the borders that

642
00:33:48,841 --> 00:33:51,281
Speaker 4: we have, it's a line in the map, you.

643
00:33:51,241 --> 00:33:53,801
Speaker 3: Can't tell, like if you're standing there, you would not know.

644
00:33:54,041 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 4: That's a border, So you don't need bureaucracy and things

645
00:33:58,441 --> 00:34:00,441
Speaker 4: holding it down. And then I got to see with

646
00:34:00,881 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 4: him stepping over the border they ran Queensland Police. I

647
00:34:03,721 --> 00:34:07,161
Speaker 4: got to see how both Queensland and New South Wales

648
00:34:07,161 --> 00:34:11,641
Speaker 4: police were similar or different and what level of resources

649
00:34:11,721 --> 00:34:12,641
Speaker 4: or not was.

650
00:34:13,241 --> 00:34:16,161
Speaker 3: What was your biggest standout in comparing the two.

651
00:34:16,521 --> 00:34:20,081
Speaker 4: You know, there were so many different standouts. That Queensland

652
00:34:20,121 --> 00:34:24,801
Speaker 4: came in and it seemed that they were more predominant.

653
00:34:24,921 --> 00:34:28,401
Speaker 4: They had bigger crews of police, whereas New South Wales

654
00:34:28,441 --> 00:34:31,641
Speaker 4: they had like a police officer that came up from Lismore.

655
00:34:32,201 --> 00:34:36,121
Speaker 4: I found that when we had lots more ses come,

656
00:34:36,721 --> 00:34:39,841
Speaker 4: they were coming from Redlands and Brisbane, and I felt

657
00:34:39,881 --> 00:34:41,481
Speaker 4: like we were getting a lot of people and then

658
00:34:41,561 --> 00:34:44,001
Speaker 4: some boom, like you know, it was getting bigger and

659
00:34:44,041 --> 00:34:46,441
Speaker 4: bigger and people hearing about it and the search and

660
00:34:46,441 --> 00:34:49,681
Speaker 4: they're like it's on media and everyone, and then it's.

661
00:34:49,561 --> 00:34:52,681
Speaker 3: A bitter momentum happy And is that when because they suspended?

662
00:34:52,801 --> 00:34:55,241
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was when it was suspended. I think, yeah,

663
00:34:55,441 --> 00:34:59,881
Speaker 4: just seeing that Queensland wanted to continue.

664
00:34:59,481 --> 00:35:01,481
Speaker 3: What reason did New South Wales police give you for

665
00:35:01,521 --> 00:35:02,161
Speaker 3: suspending it.

666
00:35:03,281 --> 00:35:06,681
Speaker 4: They had just said that they would require military resources

667
00:35:06,761 --> 00:35:09,641
Speaker 4: now because he may be in out of the search area,

668
00:35:10,601 --> 00:35:12,921
Speaker 4: out of that four point seven kilometer arabius.

669
00:35:13,681 --> 00:35:17,841
Speaker 1: So that's when I just started looking for ex military offices.

670
00:35:18,241 --> 00:35:19,241
Speaker 3: That's not even a lot.

671
00:35:19,481 --> 00:35:23,241
Speaker 4: It isn't when you think that that's possibly for on

672
00:35:23,321 --> 00:35:25,321
Speaker 4: the first day. So if they were searching on the

673
00:35:25,401 --> 00:35:28,681
Speaker 4: first day, that radius would be applicable. But as time

674
00:35:28,761 --> 00:35:31,441
Speaker 4: goes on, you know, you can keep walking. They call

675
00:35:31,481 --> 00:35:33,601
Speaker 4: it the Nay Smith rule. You can keep walking. And

676
00:35:33,681 --> 00:35:36,801
Speaker 4: it's done on lost person behavior, so not everyone walks

677
00:35:36,841 --> 00:35:39,841
Speaker 4: in a straight line. Usually when you're lost, you may

678
00:35:39,961 --> 00:35:44,041
Speaker 4: walk in circles. And for Patrick, underlost person's behavior, people

679
00:35:44,081 --> 00:35:47,641
Speaker 4: with the mental health condition, they have high survivability. In

680
00:35:47,681 --> 00:35:51,241
Speaker 4: the book that's written that the police follow Robert Kester

681
00:35:51,361 --> 00:35:54,401
Speaker 4: in America, and I think when you look at America

682
00:35:54,441 --> 00:35:55,001
Speaker 4: and you look.

683
00:35:54,881 --> 00:35:58,161
Speaker 1: At UK, they don't search with guns.

684
00:35:58,201 --> 00:36:00,881
Speaker 4: That was another thing for me, like I think searching,

685
00:36:01,001 --> 00:36:02,881
Speaker 4: you know, I think, what does Patrick think of all

686
00:36:02,881 --> 00:36:05,921
Speaker 4: these guys? You know, police are running around with guns.

687
00:36:06,041 --> 00:36:08,241
Speaker 4: One time I was following a police officer or running

688
00:36:08,281 --> 00:36:10,161
Speaker 4: in there in the rainforest.

689
00:36:10,841 --> 00:36:12,321
Speaker 1: You know, he had guns on him.

690
00:36:12,201 --> 00:36:16,801
Speaker 3: So confronting, right for somebody who is not drinking, potentially,

691
00:36:16,881 --> 00:36:21,281
Speaker 3: not eating potentially, so he's disorientated. They're the sorts of

692
00:36:21,321 --> 00:36:23,401
Speaker 3: things that people need to think about, don't they, in

693
00:36:23,481 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 3: these searching elements of somebody like in Patrick's situation. So

694
00:36:32,601 --> 00:36:36,041
Speaker 3: you and I first met in person last November. We

695
00:36:36,081 --> 00:36:39,361
Speaker 3: were in Sydney and I was part of organizing a

696
00:36:39,401 --> 00:36:42,561
Speaker 3: symposium and you spoke. There was at that point that

697
00:36:42,601 --> 00:36:44,881
Speaker 3: you actually mentioned to me that you and I had

698
00:36:44,961 --> 00:36:47,321
Speaker 3: the same oh I see. So for those of you

699
00:36:47,321 --> 00:36:48,681
Speaker 3: who don't know what I know I see is it's

700
00:36:48,681 --> 00:36:51,401
Speaker 3: an officer in charge and the oh I see that

701
00:36:51,881 --> 00:36:54,881
Speaker 3: is on Mum's case, and Patrick's case was based out

702
00:36:54,881 --> 00:36:59,201
Speaker 3: of Tweedheads but also worked down in Byron Bay. I

703
00:36:59,201 --> 00:37:02,201
Speaker 3: was a little shocked to hear you tell me that. Actually,

704
00:37:02,681 --> 00:37:06,081
Speaker 3: do you remember what you told me about what he

705
00:37:06,201 --> 00:37:10,281
Speaker 3: told you when we were at the event about I

706
00:37:10,281 --> 00:37:14,561
Speaker 3: think he said something along the lines of Patrick probably

707
00:37:14,601 --> 00:37:16,921
Speaker 3: just wants to live in the bush.

708
00:37:17,321 --> 00:37:20,481
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a really hard sort of thing that

709
00:37:20,521 --> 00:37:22,601
Speaker 4: the police was sort of saying, you know, he's living

710
00:37:22,841 --> 00:37:25,521
Speaker 4: in the back of someone's banana shad, you know, and

711
00:37:25,561 --> 00:37:26,161
Speaker 4: I was just like.

712
00:37:26,401 --> 00:37:27,801
Speaker 1: But there's no evidence of that.

713
00:37:28,721 --> 00:37:31,561
Speaker 4: I did state to them, you know, he loves nature,

714
00:37:31,721 --> 00:37:33,161
Speaker 4: he loves like living in shack.

715
00:37:33,281 --> 00:37:35,721
Speaker 1: I felt pretty heartbroken at that point.

716
00:37:37,321 --> 00:37:40,321
Speaker 4: He's a very vulnerable person, and I think that should

717
00:37:40,361 --> 00:37:44,601
Speaker 4: have escalated the urgency. We don't want to put some

718
00:37:44,641 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 4: sort of speculation or unconscious bias that Okay, yeah he

719
00:37:48,601 --> 00:37:50,321
Speaker 4: likes he likes.

720
00:37:50,041 --> 00:37:51,681
Speaker 3: Living in the bush, so he's going to live in

721
00:37:51,681 --> 00:37:55,281
Speaker 3: the bush, so we're not going to keep looking for him. Yeah,

722
00:37:55,281 --> 00:38:00,001
Speaker 3: that's devastating. There was a situation that popped up a

723
00:38:00,081 --> 00:38:04,521
Speaker 3: little bit later about Patrick's phone and his Google account,

724
00:38:05,361 --> 00:38:09,241
Speaker 3: and I read somewhere that you were really frustrated because

725
00:38:09,561 --> 00:38:11,881
Speaker 3: the police had mentioned it but then didn't tell you

726
00:38:11,961 --> 00:38:16,281
Speaker 3: what the information was because of privacy. Can you share

727
00:38:16,281 --> 00:38:17,681
Speaker 3: with us how that felt.

728
00:38:17,961 --> 00:38:20,721
Speaker 4: When he went missing, he had his phone on him.

729
00:38:21,441 --> 00:38:25,041
Speaker 4: So police have showed me some of the maps where

730
00:38:25,521 --> 00:38:27,641
Speaker 4: you know, you can see where he is in Copper Pie,

731
00:38:27,801 --> 00:38:28,481
Speaker 4: you can see his.

732
00:38:28,881 --> 00:38:33,041
Speaker 1: Pattern in Tweed he went on those last days.

733
00:38:33,041 --> 00:38:36,041
Speaker 4: And I think that that's another lifeline that that could

734
00:38:36,081 --> 00:38:40,521
Speaker 4: have done urgently immediately. So i'd given the information to police,

735
00:38:40,561 --> 00:38:43,721
Speaker 4: have given the passwords and all that. I hadn't heard

736
00:38:43,761 --> 00:38:47,441
Speaker 4: anything back from them, so I had my own private

737
00:38:47,441 --> 00:38:50,521
Speaker 4: team do that, and then I presented the evidence to

738
00:38:50,561 --> 00:38:54,121
Speaker 4: the police and he'd search a location. He'd search the

739
00:38:54,161 --> 00:38:57,721
Speaker 4: Crambin Rock puse and the two neighboring set of properties

740
00:38:57,801 --> 00:39:02,401
Speaker 4: on this search. So I just think that that's another thing.

741
00:39:02,441 --> 00:39:05,321
Speaker 4: If you have a phone on you, there's a lot

742
00:39:05,321 --> 00:39:10,121
Speaker 4: of other information in that. Patrick didn't really use a phone,

743
00:39:10,281 --> 00:39:12,201
Speaker 4: Like a lot of people said to me, check his emails.

744
00:39:12,961 --> 00:39:15,961
Speaker 1: I checked them. They're empty, Like he doesn't communicate in

745
00:39:16,201 --> 00:39:16,561
Speaker 1: a way.

746
00:39:17,241 --> 00:39:19,641
Speaker 3: I'm not texting people, or he's not on Instagram or

747
00:39:19,681 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 3: anything like that.

748
00:39:20,721 --> 00:39:25,201
Speaker 4: He's on Instagram any support workers. They've set up pages

749
00:39:25,241 --> 00:39:27,881
Speaker 4: and they've spelled his name wrong. So he's setting it

750
00:39:27,961 --> 00:39:31,921
Speaker 4: up to show his artwork. But yeah, he needed support

751
00:39:31,961 --> 00:39:35,201
Speaker 4: to do that. Yeah, but yeah, I was really wanted to.

752
00:39:35,721 --> 00:39:39,081
Speaker 4: I provided that information to place. It seemed it wasn't urgent.

753
00:39:39,161 --> 00:39:42,041
Speaker 4: They didn't act on it until I provided the information

754
00:39:42,161 --> 00:39:44,481
Speaker 4: and was acted upon it. And I just think that

755
00:39:44,561 --> 00:39:47,561
Speaker 4: information was critical, Like we've got the data of his

756
00:39:47,681 --> 00:39:50,121
Speaker 4: location where he could have gone there, and then I

757
00:39:50,161 --> 00:39:53,161
Speaker 4: was like, Okay, that's some further insight onto where he

758
00:39:53,201 --> 00:39:53,921
Speaker 4: could be going.

759
00:39:55,801 --> 00:39:58,881
Speaker 3: Gosh, it's just a lot of you trying to put

760
00:39:58,921 --> 00:40:01,281
Speaker 3: the piece together, isn't it. So do you know if

761
00:40:01,321 --> 00:40:03,241
Speaker 3: they've acted on any of that Google.

762
00:40:03,881 --> 00:40:07,801
Speaker 4: We're lucky that examplice came out around when I got

763
00:40:07,801 --> 00:40:09,041
Speaker 4: that location from the Crumblin and.

764
00:40:09,041 --> 00:40:12,481
Speaker 3: Rock Pools and because currumbin Rock Pools is in Queensland.

765
00:40:12,161 --> 00:40:14,761
Speaker 4: So yeah, they had a couple of search and rescue

766
00:40:14,761 --> 00:40:17,841
Speaker 4: police officers that came out to like sort of come

767
00:40:17,881 --> 00:40:20,721
Speaker 4: around that area and they're like, you know, this really positive.

768
00:40:21,081 --> 00:40:23,121
Speaker 3: And just so we've got a timeline when did you

769
00:40:23,161 --> 00:40:25,801
Speaker 3: do the Google searching? Like how long had you been missing?

770
00:40:25,841 --> 00:40:29,921
Speaker 4: At this point it was probably around that month, so

771
00:40:30,041 --> 00:40:32,361
Speaker 4: we'd found April May.

772
00:40:33,201 --> 00:40:37,281
Speaker 3: And so I know you're calling for legislative change to

773
00:40:37,361 --> 00:40:42,241
Speaker 3: mandate faster access to these digital locations and data for

774
00:40:42,321 --> 00:40:46,641
Speaker 3: a missing person's case. What would an ideal process look like,

775
00:40:46,721 --> 00:40:49,681
Speaker 3: both legally and practically to help other families in the future.

776
00:40:49,761 --> 00:40:51,281
Speaker 1: Do you think I.

777
00:40:51,241 --> 00:40:54,441
Speaker 4: Think if they have access to their phone data or

778
00:40:55,681 --> 00:41:00,161
Speaker 4: location immediately if it's a missing person, more then they

779
00:41:00,241 --> 00:41:01,801
Speaker 4: can locate person.

780
00:41:01,921 --> 00:41:03,561
Speaker 1: You know, we've got a lot of technology. If they

781
00:41:03,561 --> 00:41:04,841
Speaker 1: have technology on them.

782
00:41:05,281 --> 00:41:08,041
Speaker 3: Is most days in today's world do right, So that

783
00:41:08,081 --> 00:41:09,841
Speaker 3: would be the first thing we'd want to try. And

784
00:41:11,041 --> 00:41:13,721
Speaker 3: privacy issues need to be lifted. There needs to be

785
00:41:13,801 --> 00:41:17,201
Speaker 3: some sort of legal change, because this is something we're

786
00:41:17,241 --> 00:41:20,481
Speaker 3: all facing is we can't tell you, we can't tell you,

787
00:41:20,561 --> 00:41:23,321
Speaker 3: and then you've got police over here making assumptions that

788
00:41:23,641 --> 00:41:26,761
Speaker 3: he's okay, he wants to live in the bush, she's okay,

789
00:41:26,881 --> 00:41:28,881
Speaker 3: she changed her name and wanted to go missing. It's

790
00:41:28,921 --> 00:41:31,641
Speaker 3: the same thing we're talking twenty eight years, nearly three

791
00:41:31,681 --> 00:41:34,921
Speaker 3: decades later, we're still getting the same language. Something needs

792
00:41:34,961 --> 00:41:38,161
Speaker 3: to change. And I know Teresa O'Sullivan, who was my

793
00:41:38,281 --> 00:41:42,361
Speaker 3: coroner for my mum, also was the coroner for Theo Hayes,

794
00:41:42,601 --> 00:41:46,761
Speaker 3: and she made several recommendations. THEO was a Belgian backpacker.

795
00:41:46,801 --> 00:41:50,281
Speaker 3: He was only eighteen and he went missing just when

796
00:41:50,321 --> 00:41:53,241
Speaker 3: I launched the podcast The Lady Vanishes for my mum,

797
00:41:53,761 --> 00:41:56,961
Speaker 3: and so it was all very much for me as well.

798
00:41:57,001 --> 00:41:59,721
Speaker 3: And I've got to know Theo's family and the people

799
00:41:59,721 --> 00:42:02,641
Speaker 3: that are helping in his support group. They're amazing people.

800
00:42:02,721 --> 00:42:06,241
Speaker 3: But you know, at the inquest, we know that from

801
00:42:06,401 --> 00:42:09,521
Speaker 3: the findings there was a digital date trail from his

802
00:42:09,601 --> 00:42:13,161
Speaker 3: mobile phone, which revealed his last nine movements. That was

803
00:42:13,161 --> 00:42:17,561
Speaker 3: a turning point in the investigation for THEO. However, authorities

804
00:42:17,801 --> 00:42:21,001
Speaker 3: did face numerous legal and logistical challenges to access that

805
00:42:21,121 --> 00:42:24,321
Speaker 3: crucial detail and data. I read in an article by

806
00:42:24,441 --> 00:42:27,201
Speaker 3: the ABC that was published in July twenty twenty four

807
00:42:27,281 --> 00:42:31,081
Speaker 3: that the Federal Communications Minister at the Timershell Rowlands So

808
00:42:31,241 --> 00:42:34,001
Speaker 3: that the government had taken steps to help police and

809
00:42:34,041 --> 00:42:38,801
Speaker 3: emergency services to locate missing persons, and that changes to

810
00:42:38,921 --> 00:42:43,001
Speaker 3: the Telecommunications Act of nineteen ninety seven was to allow

811
00:42:43,121 --> 00:42:46,961
Speaker 3: telcoas to provide law enforcement and emergency services with voluntary

812
00:42:46,961 --> 00:42:51,041
Speaker 3: information and assistants if it would help prevent a serious

813
00:42:51,081 --> 00:42:56,081
Speaker 3: threat to a person's life or health. What's your understanding

814
00:42:56,561 --> 00:42:58,881
Speaker 3: on this, Nick, Like, are you aware of any new

815
00:42:58,961 --> 00:43:02,001
Speaker 3: changes that have been implemented and can you see those

816
00:43:02,081 --> 00:43:07,281
Speaker 3: changes assisting pre existing cases like Patrick or is it

817
00:43:07,361 --> 00:43:08,481
Speaker 3: only for new cases?

818
00:43:10,281 --> 00:43:13,201
Speaker 4: Sinking Patrick's case, it still was a barrier like it

819
00:43:13,281 --> 00:43:16,281
Speaker 4: was still was. I had to get other people to

820
00:43:16,281 --> 00:43:20,441
Speaker 4: help me to retrieve hisse Google data. I think police

821
00:43:20,441 --> 00:43:23,881
Speaker 4: showed me the maps afterwards, but I think after that

822
00:43:24,001 --> 00:43:26,521
Speaker 4: I had a meteor article to show.

823
00:43:26,401 --> 00:43:26,961
Speaker 1: Me the location.

824
00:43:27,041 --> 00:43:29,001
Speaker 4: But if they had, that's such a clear market, I

825
00:43:29,081 --> 00:43:31,721
Speaker 4: don't know why that was an earlier so they could

826
00:43:31,761 --> 00:43:36,721
Speaker 4: go immediately to Coperki. I've still got questions about how

827
00:43:37,321 --> 00:43:40,481
Speaker 4: what's the timeframe around accessing this.

828
00:43:40,641 --> 00:43:45,121
Speaker 3: Data and does it apply across Australia. Like this is

829
00:43:45,161 --> 00:43:48,201
Speaker 3: something that the government needs to be focusing on right

830
00:43:48,281 --> 00:43:52,601
Speaker 3: It's a big issue, and it's costing Australian taxpayers thousands

831
00:43:52,681 --> 00:43:56,281
Speaker 3: of dollars every year and volunteers hours and hours of

832
00:43:56,361 --> 00:44:00,721
Speaker 3: time to search and help in missing person's cases. Surely

833
00:44:00,761 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 3: you would think that they would release or take off

834
00:44:04,561 --> 00:44:09,441
Speaker 3: these I feel like they're just big lumps of concrete

835
00:44:09,481 --> 00:44:12,521
Speaker 3: on our head that are stopping us from actually gaining

836
00:44:12,681 --> 00:44:16,841
Speaker 3: information to help us find our missing person. Surely, I

837
00:44:16,881 --> 00:44:20,241
Speaker 3: feel like there needs to be some sort of action taken.

838
00:44:20,801 --> 00:44:24,081
Speaker 3: I know when I was talking to Jay about DES's case,

839
00:44:24,161 --> 00:44:28,361
Speaker 3: he wrote to someone over in Western Australia and about

840
00:44:28,401 --> 00:44:31,521
Speaker 3: his missing person who's been missing for like sixteen thousand

841
00:44:31,521 --> 00:44:34,241
Speaker 3: odd days, and that he got told, oh, well, you

842
00:44:34,321 --> 00:44:39,081
Speaker 3: actually didn't address the person correctly, so didn't actually answer

843
00:44:39,161 --> 00:44:41,521
Speaker 3: the question that Jay was asking about. But came back

844
00:44:41,561 --> 00:44:44,921
Speaker 3: to them and retorted with not even acknowledgment of what

845
00:44:45,481 --> 00:44:49,041
Speaker 3: you're actually asking and dealing with. So there's still lots

846
00:44:49,041 --> 00:44:51,601
Speaker 3: of change that needs to happen in this space. And

847
00:44:51,801 --> 00:44:54,601
Speaker 3: I'm hoping by doing these podcasts and talking about it

848
00:44:54,601 --> 00:44:57,841
Speaker 3: from a real perspective, people will hear it, and people

849
00:44:57,881 --> 00:45:00,641
Speaker 3: will understand and learn and hear it in our voices.

850
00:45:00,841 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 3: You know, the frustration. We're not experts at this. I'm

851
00:45:03,481 --> 00:45:05,921
Speaker 3: sure you would agree, we're just fum our way through.

852
00:45:06,441 --> 00:45:09,921
Speaker 4: I think it's a matter of prioritization, so privacy would

853
00:45:10,241 --> 00:45:11,601
Speaker 4: come under life.

854
00:45:12,521 --> 00:45:15,601
Speaker 3: We do refer to it as ambiguous loss. Can be

855
00:45:16,241 --> 00:45:20,721
Speaker 3: emotionally overwhelming. Has the absence of closure affected your daily

856
00:45:20,761 --> 00:45:22,201
Speaker 3: life and your sense of self?

857
00:45:23,041 --> 00:45:26,201
Speaker 4: Yeah, the concept of ambiguous loss. Yeah, so in my

858
00:45:26,321 --> 00:45:31,601
Speaker 4: case it's you know, physical absence with psychological presence. For me,

859
00:45:32,201 --> 00:45:35,361
Speaker 4: having to do like multiple of tasks doesn't give you

860
00:45:35,361 --> 00:45:39,321
Speaker 4: the space or time for grieving. You know, people don't

861
00:45:39,321 --> 00:45:41,281
Speaker 4: know that before you go to work, you're speaking to

862
00:45:41,321 --> 00:45:45,281
Speaker 4: your search team, or you're planning, or you're writing, investigating,

863
00:45:45,321 --> 00:45:47,201
Speaker 4: and then you go and you do your day, and

864
00:45:47,241 --> 00:45:49,561
Speaker 4: then when you finish work, and then you're on the

865
00:45:49,641 --> 00:45:51,321
Speaker 4: phone to your search team and or.

866
00:45:51,281 --> 00:45:55,241
Speaker 3: Then doing total or trying to organize media events or

867
00:45:55,681 --> 00:45:58,681
Speaker 3: it just is consuming right, Well, that trick kind of

868
00:45:59,281 --> 00:46:02,121
Speaker 3: I always hate saying this because it's quite trauma in

869
00:46:02,161 --> 00:46:04,641
Speaker 3: my head even saying it. But he's been missing for

870
00:46:04,681 --> 00:46:09,641
Speaker 3: fivehundred days. Now tell me, how is your mum, How

871
00:46:09,641 --> 00:46:12,361
Speaker 3: are your family? How are they going? Like you are

872
00:46:12,401 --> 00:46:15,001
Speaker 3: the pillar of strength for them, I'm assuming, but how

873
00:46:15,001 --> 00:46:15,761
Speaker 3: are they going?

874
00:46:16,481 --> 00:46:17,761
Speaker 1: It's just devastating.

875
00:46:17,841 --> 00:46:20,881
Speaker 4: You know, we have each other, but you know we

876
00:46:20,921 --> 00:46:24,601
Speaker 4: don't have him, and it's something that you can't describe

877
00:46:24,921 --> 00:46:28,241
Speaker 4: how heartbreaking it is. I think, you know, he's just

878
00:46:28,481 --> 00:46:33,001
Speaker 4: so vulnerable. You know, you're always interconnected. I feel that

879
00:46:33,001 --> 00:46:34,601
Speaker 4: it's important at this stage.

880
00:46:35,001 --> 00:46:38,081
Speaker 3: I couldn't find a reward online for Patrick. Is there

881
00:46:38,121 --> 00:46:40,241
Speaker 3: a no reward either?

882
00:46:40,761 --> 00:46:44,561
Speaker 4: Okay I have asked police about that and yeah, so

883
00:46:44,721 --> 00:46:45,401
Speaker 4: no response.

884
00:46:46,041 --> 00:46:49,081
Speaker 3: And the reward is such a funny thing, isn't it,

885
00:46:49,121 --> 00:46:51,681
Speaker 3: Because people go, oh, well, you know, someone knows something,

886
00:46:51,681 --> 00:46:54,561
Speaker 3: they should just tell you. And it shouldn't be about

887
00:46:54,601 --> 00:46:59,441
Speaker 3: getting money for information. It's probably not so much about that.

888
00:46:59,521 --> 00:47:01,961
Speaker 3: For me. It's about the fact that there's a poster

889
00:47:02,361 --> 00:47:05,561
Speaker 3: and there's an awareness and there's an announcement in the media.

890
00:47:05,601 --> 00:47:09,241
Speaker 3: Officially that there is a reward for information, and sometimes

891
00:47:09,281 --> 00:47:13,081
Speaker 3: that just alerts people just that little bit more to say,

892
00:47:13,121 --> 00:47:16,921
Speaker 3: this person's still missing, there is a reward. Let's try

893
00:47:16,961 --> 00:47:19,841
Speaker 3: and keep our eyes peeled or let's see if we

894
00:47:19,921 --> 00:47:23,521
Speaker 3: find something that might help this family. Thank you for

895
00:47:23,601 --> 00:47:27,641
Speaker 3: coming on today. I'm really grateful that you have come

896
00:47:27,721 --> 00:47:30,321
Speaker 3: up all the way to Brisbane. It's a long journey

897
00:47:30,321 --> 00:47:33,601
Speaker 3: for you. And can we finish with you telling us

898
00:47:33,641 --> 00:47:34,681
Speaker 3: why Patrick matters?

899
00:47:36,201 --> 00:47:37,441
Speaker 1: Patrick matters to me.

900
00:47:37,801 --> 00:47:42,121
Speaker 4: He's my beloved brother, he's an uncle, he's a cousin,

901
00:47:42,721 --> 00:47:47,561
Speaker 4: he's a son. You know, he painted this indelible mark

902
00:47:47,641 --> 00:47:50,041
Speaker 4: into my heart and to the world as an artist.

903
00:47:51,441 --> 00:47:56,561
Speaker 4: He had kind, gentle approached or through, you know, people

904
00:47:56,561 --> 00:47:59,361
Speaker 4: that he's meant all across the lifespan have come that

905
00:47:59,401 --> 00:48:02,561
Speaker 4: they're searching for him. Friends from school, friends that we've

906
00:48:02,601 --> 00:48:05,881
Speaker 4: played with in the canal I'd open and they were there.

907
00:48:06,441 --> 00:48:10,201
Speaker 4: There's so many people that love and cherish him across

908
00:48:10,401 --> 00:48:13,121
Speaker 4: his whole life. He's only had, you know, sort of

909
00:48:13,201 --> 00:48:16,841
Speaker 4: half a lifetime and just yeah, just because of who

910
00:48:16,881 --> 00:48:20,161
Speaker 4: he is, just that beautiful, gentle, kind soul and I

911
00:48:20,321 --> 00:48:22,921
Speaker 4: just when I close my eyes, I see those deep

912
00:48:23,001 --> 00:48:26,601
Speaker 4: dark brown eyes looking back at me, and yeah, Patty,

913
00:48:26,601 --> 00:48:27,761
Speaker 4: I miss you and I love you.

914
00:48:27,961 --> 00:48:41,481
Speaker 1: And new matter. Patrick matters.

915
00:48:37,601 --> 00:48:39,601
Speaker 2: Next week on the missing matter.

916
00:48:42,041 --> 00:48:46,121
Speaker 3: James's blue Toda high Locks was found on a property

917
00:48:46,201 --> 00:48:46,961
Speaker 3: in Menduran.

918
00:48:47,561 --> 00:48:50,441
Speaker 6: I was told that there was nothing that come up

919
00:48:50,481 --> 00:48:54,281
Speaker 6: in forensics and the car was actually returned to the property.

920
00:48:54,481 --> 00:48:58,521
Speaker 6: The car was actually sold for about three thousand dollars.

921
00:48:58,761 --> 00:49:00,041
Speaker 1: It was put on marketplace.

922
00:49:00,521 --> 00:49:04,081
Speaker 7: It would have been worth seventeen to twenty five thousand dollars.

923
00:49:04,361 --> 00:49:06,801
Speaker 7: Just doesn't make it any sense to me.

924
00:49:07,921 --> 00:49:10,601
Speaker 5: He hasn't contact in anyone, he hasn't used his bank accounts,

925
00:49:11,601 --> 00:49:14,401
Speaker 5: nobody's seen him, you know, like he deserves a dignity

926
00:49:14,441 --> 00:49:17,121
Speaker 5: to be brought home whatever's happened to him, you know,

927
00:49:17,361 --> 00:49:20,041
Speaker 5: because every human being deserves that.

928
00:49:22,641 --> 00:49:25,241
Speaker 3: James was not just just a person or a number.

929
00:49:25,641 --> 00:49:26,961
Speaker 3: He matters, you know what I mean.

930
00:49:27,201 --> 00:49:30,881
Speaker 7: And he's not He's not forgotten, and he deserves to

931
00:49:30,921 --> 00:49:33,361
Speaker 7: be found. And if you just know anything, you just

932
00:49:34,161 --> 00:49:36,521
Speaker 7: anything at all, the smallest thing can help us, you know,

933
00:49:36,681 --> 00:49:40,841
Speaker 7: like it might seem insignificant to you guys, but it

934
00:49:40,921 --> 00:49:43,001
Speaker 7: might be that tiny little piece of the puzzle that

935
00:49:43,161 --> 00:49:44,641
Speaker 7: might make sense to us.

936
00:49:44,721 --> 00:49:46,881
Speaker 3: Or somebody else