WEBVTT - BONUS EPISODE: The Missing Campers trial - the forensics

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<v Speaker 1>This is Life and Crimes. I'm Laura Placella, standing in

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<v Speaker 1>for Andrew Rawle, who's on assignment. I'm joined by my

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<v Speaker 1>colleague at The Herald's son, Myles Proust, to continue discussing

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<v Speaker 1>one of the most compelling trials that we've seen in

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<v Speaker 1>recent years. If you missed our previous bonus episodes, the

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<v Speaker 1>case centers on the deaths of Russell Hill and Carol Clay,

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<v Speaker 1>an elderly couple who were camping in a remote area

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<v Speaker 1>called the Waningata Valley in Victoria's North. The men accused

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<v Speaker 1>of their murder is former Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn. He

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<v Speaker 1>is standing trial in the Supreme Court where Miles has

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<v Speaker 1>been practically living for the past couple of weeks. To

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<v Speaker 1>be able to break down the trial for our readers

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<v Speaker 1>and listeners, this episode will unpack the evidence of the

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<v Speaker 1>last seven days as the prosecution continues to present its

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<v Speaker 1>case to the jury. Thanks again for joining us, Myles.

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<v Speaker 2>Great to be back, Laura.

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<v Speaker 1>So last week, most of the witnesses we heard from

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<v Speaker 1>were people who knew Russell Hill and Carol Clay personally.

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<v Speaker 1>But this week there's been a bit of a shift

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<v Speaker 1>and now we're hearing from police officers and experts. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you tell us a bit more about the evidence the

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<v Speaker 1>cops gave.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's right. So there has been a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a shift in the evidence. I think at the start

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<v Speaker 2>of the trial we're hearing from family friends, different campers,

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<v Speaker 2>other hunters who had interactions with mister Hill and missus Clay,

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<v Speaker 2>and now we're moving more into the police investigation side

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<v Speaker 2>of things and also forensics. So last week we heard

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<v Speaker 2>from a woman called Abbi Justin. She's a detective with

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<v Speaker 2>the Missing Persons squad, so she is the first police

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<v Speaker 2>officer who was part of the unit that investigated this

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<v Speaker 2>case to give evidence. She gave some interesting evidence about

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<v Speaker 2>how mister Lynn was tracked and connected to the disappearance

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<v Speaker 2>of the missing campers. She spoke about how mister Hill's

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<v Speaker 2>phone data indicated his mobile phone traveled along the Great

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<v Speaker 2>Alpine Road around ten am or March twenty one, twenty twenty,

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<v Speaker 2>This is the morning after the alleged murders. Then mister

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<v Speaker 2>Lynn's miss and patrol was captured on automatic number plate

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<v Speaker 2>recognition cameras near Mount Hotham. These are cameras like traffic

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<v Speaker 2>cameras that are set up to catch people who are

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<v Speaker 2>driving up into the ski resort and parking and just

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<v Speaker 2>to ensure that they're paid to be there. So mister

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<v Speaker 2>Lynn's car is captured on these cameras at the same

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<v Speaker 2>time or a similar time as mister Hill's phone was

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<v Speaker 2>traveling in the area. And so she said this enabled

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<v Speaker 2>police to track down mister Lynn, and they paid mister

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<v Speaker 2>Lynn a visit at his Caroline Springs home in July

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty, so a few months after the couple's disappearance.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of the things she said is she noticed

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<v Speaker 2>mister Lynn's dark colored forward drive. So it was a

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<v Speaker 2>dark sort of navy gray color in the traffic cameras,

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<v Speaker 2>it had been repainted to a light brown, and she

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<v Speaker 2>took a photo of it.

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<v Speaker 1>So mister Lynn's car was repainted by the time police

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<v Speaker 1>paid him a visit.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. So when police paid him a visit in

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<v Speaker 2>July twenty twenty, it had been repainted since the couple

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<v Speaker 2>had disappeared in March twenty twenty, and mister Lynn was

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<v Speaker 2>captured on these traffic cameras. Now it's the prosecution case

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<v Speaker 2>that mister Lynn repainted his car to avoid being linked

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<v Speaker 2>to the alleged murders of mister Hill and missus Clay,

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<v Speaker 2>and the jury was actually shown images of the different

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<v Speaker 2>painted cars. So there were the traffic camera images which

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<v Speaker 2>showed this dark colored forward drive and then they were

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<v Speaker 2>shown pictures of the car after it had been taken

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<v Speaker 2>by police and it showed it was a sort of

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<v Speaker 2>light brown Beiji color.

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<v Speaker 1>Did any other police officers give evidence?

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, we heard from another cop called Amy Frost. So

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<v Speaker 2>she's from Sale Police, which is the area sort of

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<v Speaker 2>closest to where the couple disappeared, and she spoke about

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<v Speaker 2>the early stage of the investigation. She actually met with

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<v Speaker 2>mister Hill and missus Clay's families in Druen and Pakenham

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<v Speaker 2>in April twenty twenty, so just a few weeks after

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<v Speaker 2>they disappeared, and she obtained statements and looked for evidence

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<v Speaker 2>that might assist in their investment. Part of that included

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<v Speaker 2>taking items so they could be used for DNA comparison

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<v Speaker 2>later on if remains were found. So they took a

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<v Speaker 2>shaver from mister Hill and a toothbrush from missus Clay.

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<v Speaker 1>What else did she find.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, she also revealed she found a ripped up box

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<v Speaker 2>of viagra in mister Hill's name in the bathroom bin

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<v Speaker 2>of missus Clay's home.

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<v Speaker 1>Very interesting. Yeah, So we've also been hearing from a

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<v Speaker 1>number of experts this week. Can you tell our listeners

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<v Speaker 1>what exactly is expert evidence.

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<v Speaker 2>So expert evidence or expert witnesses are a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>different to other witnesses. So they're not people who have

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<v Speaker 2>any connection to the case. They're not people who were

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<v Speaker 2>eyewitnesses or family members or friends. They are typically experts

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<v Speaker 2>who were specialists within a specific field. So this could

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<v Speaker 2>be anything from weapons, ballistics, health. We even had one

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<v Speaker 2>expert who was specialized in insects, all different types, and

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<v Speaker 2>they are usually asked to make a written report. They

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<v Speaker 2>presented evidence, asked to give in an opinion, they write

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<v Speaker 2>up a report, that report is tended, and then they

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<v Speaker 2>are asked about it in court.

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<v Speaker 1>So at this point we will be discussing some evidence

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<v Speaker 1>which may involve discussing details that could be confronting or

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<v Speaker 1>gruesome for some. So if that isn't your type of thing,

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<v Speaker 1>you may want to skip ahead. So with that disclaimer

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<v Speaker 1>out of the way, can you tell us what we

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<v Speaker 1>heard from some of their experts.

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<v Speaker 2>So on Thursday, the jury was shown photos of bone

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<v Speaker 2>fragments and teeth found in remote bushland during search for

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<v Speaker 2>the remains of mister Hill and Missus Clay. This evidence

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<v Speaker 2>was part of the testimony of George Sidius. He's a

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<v Speaker 2>forensic officer from the Fire Explosives Unit of the Victorian

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<v Speaker 2>Police Forensic Services Center. He's someone who sort of specializes

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<v Speaker 2>in arson and evidence that has been burnt. Now, he

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<v Speaker 2>was part of this search of this area known as

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<v Speaker 2>Union Sper Track in November twenty twenty one. So just

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<v Speaker 2>to recap mister Lind's account is mister Hill and Missus

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<v Speaker 2>Clay were accidentally killed and then he feared he would

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<v Speaker 2>be blamed for their deaths, and so he removed their bodies,

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<v Speaker 2>took them up to this Union Spur track site which

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<v Speaker 2>is in Bushland. It's a remote track in bushland north

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<v Speaker 2>of Dargo, and he's dumped the bodies there and then

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<v Speaker 2>he's actually come back eight months later and set fire

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<v Speaker 2>to their remains. So mister Zidius, he was part of

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<v Speaker 2>his search. He found bone fragments, teeth, remnants of a wristwatch,

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<v Speaker 2>and what he thought was some part of an article

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<v Speaker 2>of a clothing. Across two search areas, so a small

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<v Speaker 2>depression in a little clearing just off the track and

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<v Speaker 2>the base of a fallen tree about fifteen sixteen meters away.

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<v Speaker 2>The jury was shown some of the things that were

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<v Speaker 2>found as part of his search, and there were quite

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<v Speaker 2>a few photographs, and mister Zidios was taken through them

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<v Speaker 2>and identified different things. You could see small charred bone

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<v Speaker 2>fragments and several teeth in some of the images. Missus

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<v Speaker 2>Hidious explained that it appeared a fire had been lit

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<v Speaker 2>in the clearing before the remnants were deposited in the

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<v Speaker 2>base of the fallen tree not far away. And during

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<v Speaker 2>cross examination, Dermitt Dan, the defense barrister, spoke about this

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit. He said Miss Lynn told police he

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<v Speaker 2>used a small amount of kerosene to burn the missing

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<v Speaker 2>campus bodies before he used the dustpan to move their

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<v Speaker 2>remains to the other spot.

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<v Speaker 1>And I remember you saying with the defense openings that

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<v Speaker 1>apparently doing so made mister Linge physically sick.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's what he's told police.

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<v Speaker 1>Did we hear from any other experts.

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<v Speaker 2>We did. We heard from a woman called Dadna Hartman.

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<v Speaker 2>So she was a molecular biologist at the Victorian Institute

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<v Speaker 2>of forensic Medicine. She told the court her lab received

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<v Speaker 2>multiple bone fragments from this search and they tested it

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<v Speaker 2>DNA analysis of one bone. This was the only bone

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<v Speaker 2>that was found suitable. A lot of them were burnt

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<v Speaker 2>and there was over two thousand bones found up at

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<v Speaker 2>unionsper track. Wow, there was only one at least among

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<v Speaker 2>the ones her laboratory received, which was suitable for DNA analysis.

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<v Speaker 2>She said it was likely a match for mister Hill.

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<v Speaker 2>While a fragment recovered from Bucks Camp, so Bucks Camp

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<v Speaker 2>is where the alleged murders took place, that was found

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<v Speaker 2>to likely belong to missus Clay. Then the next day,

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<v Speaker 2>on Friday, we heard from Lyndall Smyth. She is a

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<v Speaker 2>dental expert with the same place Vifim Victorian Institute a

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<v Speaker 2>forensic medicine, and she was tasked with examining some of

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<v Speaker 2>these teeth that were found up there. She compared the

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<v Speaker 2>teeth with the dental records of mister Hill and missus

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<v Speaker 2>Clay and this was quite interesting. She spoke about how

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<v Speaker 2>mister Hill didn't have complete sort of full dental records,

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<v Speaker 2>he had partial records, but missus Clay did so that

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<v Speaker 2>included things like full mouth X rays. The teeth, she said,

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<v Speaker 2>some of which were partially missing, likely belonged to mister Hill,

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<v Speaker 2>but only two could be matched with his records. And

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<v Speaker 2>the jury was again shown images and X rays of

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<v Speaker 2>these five teeth and something called a dental bridge, which

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<v Speaker 2>is an artificial tooth held in place by other teeth,

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<v Speaker 2>as doctor Smythe pointed out where they were located in

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<v Speaker 2>the mouth.

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<v Speaker 1>So I remember you saying that there were even experts

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<v Speaker 1>that specialized in things like insects. Did we hear from

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<v Speaker 1>one of those experts?

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<v Speaker 2>We did. We heard from a woman called Melanie Archer,

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<v Speaker 2>again working for VIFAM. I can't even pronounce how you

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<v Speaker 2>say the expert in insects, but I'll give it a go.

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<v Speaker 2>A forensic entomologist. Hey, not bad, thank you. So she

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<v Speaker 2>examined some blowfly puperia, which is these little cocoons that

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<v Speaker 2>blowflies have as they grow from a maggot to a fly,

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<v Speaker 2>quite similar to a cocoon. They were found alongside the remains,

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<v Speaker 2>and she said that suggested some decomposition had taken place

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<v Speaker 2>before the bodies were burnt. Under cross examination by mister

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<v Speaker 2>Dan's defense lawyer, she said those findings were consistent with

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<v Speaker 2>mister Lind's account that he had burnt their remains sometime

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<v Speaker 2>after the bodies were dumbed.

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<v Speaker 1>Were the jury shown any photos of those insects?

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<v Speaker 2>They were, so there were more so shown images of

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<v Speaker 2>I think there were a couple that maybe had some

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<v Speaker 2>maggots in them, but it looked like a sort of

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<v Speaker 2>outer casing, sort of like a cocoon, you know, a

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<v Speaker 2>butterfly cocoon, but an outer casing that's actually used by

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<v Speaker 2>these fliers.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell our listeners just a little bit more

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<v Speaker 1>about how photos are shown in court and what's the

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<v Speaker 1>process for tendering them.

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<v Speaker 2>So photos are shown to the jury during examination of

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<v Speaker 2>a witness, So the witness gets up on the stand,

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<v Speaker 2>they talk through their evidence or a statement while they're

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<v Speaker 2>being questioned from the prosecution, and then images are also

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<v Speaker 2>shown on a big sort of screen so the whole

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<v Speaker 2>dury conceit, and also on a tablet in front of

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<v Speaker 2>the witness, and the witness can actually interact with the

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<v Speaker 2>tablet and perhaps be asked to circle or identify different

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<v Speaker 2>things that are seen in that image. And because they're

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<v Speaker 2>an expert winn is, they can take the jury through

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<v Speaker 2>complex issues and identify different parts of different things. And

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<v Speaker 2>then once that's happened, these photos and not just photos,

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<v Speaker 2>it can be footage or documents or things like that.

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<v Speaker 2>They attended as exhibits and so that means it's now

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<v Speaker 2>part of the evidence.

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<v Speaker 1>And can those photos be released to the media.

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<v Speaker 2>They can. So we have been getting quite a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of these exhibits. So if you've been reading the stories

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<v Speaker 2>online and also in the newspaper, you'll see there are

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<v Speaker 2>new images with each story. And that's because after an

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<v Speaker 2>image has been tended in evidence, we can then request it.

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<v Speaker 2>Often they are released. We don't get everything, for example,

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<v Speaker 2>and I don't think the media did request this just

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<v Speaker 2>because we thought it would be too graphic to show

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<v Speaker 2>to our readers and viewers. But we didn't request the

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<v Speaker 2>bone fragments, for example. They're not necessarily gruesome. They were

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<v Speaker 2>just these tiny sort of bone fragments that have been

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<v Speaker 2>quite charred, kind of looked like cold. But again, it's

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<v Speaker 2>just not something that's appropriate to request and probably not

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<v Speaker 2>something that's appropriate to publish given the sensitivities around the case.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, of course, so let's move on from the gruesome stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell us about some of the other experts

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<v Speaker 1>that gave evidence maybe in some other specific fields.

0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:23.880
<v Speaker 2>So we heard it from a guy called Matthew Sorrel.

0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:28.160
<v Speaker 2>He's a digital forensic expert who examined the phone records

0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.840
<v Speaker 2>and data for mister Lynn and the missing campers phones,

0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.520
<v Speaker 2>and he had a great way of explaining quite complex

0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:41.680
<v Speaker 2>evidence about how phones worked and the cellular network and

0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.319
<v Speaker 2>what you could take away from that in quite a

0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:45.920
<v Speaker 2>simple way that I think the jury really understood and

0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:49.360
<v Speaker 2>everyone in court really understood. And through his evidence he

0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.040
<v Speaker 2>had shown maps, I think he said he actually created

0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:57.680
<v Speaker 2>them himselves, which basically showed the movement of the different

0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.160
<v Speaker 2>mobile phones as they moved through different areas in the

0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:04.240
<v Speaker 2>high country, and he could identify where a phone was

0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.240
<v Speaker 2>when it connected to it, particularly a cell tower, and

0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:10.160
<v Speaker 2>he'd had a great way of explaining that. So, for example,

0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.280
<v Speaker 2>he said, the data showed mister Hill and missus Clay

0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.480
<v Speaker 2>meeting at Paknam on the morning of March nineteen, twenty twenty.

0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:18.320
<v Speaker 2>That's the day they left for the camping trip to

0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:23.079
<v Speaker 2>the Wanagata Valley, and this map showed them plotting along

0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.560
<v Speaker 2>as they traveled east, then north, and then into the

0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.679
<v Speaker 2>high country before it lost signal. The last phone tower

0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.719
<v Speaker 2>it connected to was at Hotham Heights, and he also

0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.000
<v Speaker 2>explained about why there is no phone coverage up in

0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.920
<v Speaker 2>the high country. He said, for example, there's just no

0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.520
<v Speaker 2>commercial reason to have it. But for example, there are

0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.200
<v Speaker 2>base stations at Hotham Heights and Mount Buller, and just

0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.800
<v Speaker 2>because of the elevation where they are, they spread quite

0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:49.319
<v Speaker 2>far out. But you can only get that signal when

0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.000
<v Speaker 2>you're also at a sort of similar elevation. So that

0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.000
<v Speaker 2>means if you're down in the valleys, he said, you

0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:55.800
<v Speaker 2>won't get a signal, but if you go up to

0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:59.839
<v Speaker 2>someone like the Howard High Plaines area quite above the tree,

0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:02.439
<v Speaker 2>then you probably will get a signal. And just myself,

0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:04.520
<v Speaker 2>I've been up there, I've been hiking in the area,

0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:06.199
<v Speaker 2>and you can get signals when you're at the top

0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.480
<v Speaker 2>of Mount Bogong, but not down the bottom of the mountain.

0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.480
<v Speaker 2>So you just had good evidence of explaining how this

0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:14.640
<v Speaker 2>data works and what we can tell from it. And

0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.040
<v Speaker 2>probably one of the most interesting things he spoke about

0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:21.040
<v Speaker 2>was data from mister Lynn's phone in November twenty twenty,

0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:23.480
<v Speaker 2>so this is time and mister Lind's admitted this himself

0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.200
<v Speaker 2>when he went back up into the high country to

0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.120
<v Speaker 2>burn the remains the bodies of the missing campus. So

0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.720
<v Speaker 2>the data showed that mister Lynn's phone last connected to

0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.480
<v Speaker 2>a cell network in Thomastown at about eleven forty am

0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.120
<v Speaker 2>on November eighteen, twenty twenty, and then it did not

0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.440
<v Speaker 2>reconnect to another cell tower until two days later about

0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 2>ten am in Roville, sort of Heathmont area. So doctor

0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:57.640
<v Speaker 2>Sorell said that's because the phone was essentially switched off.

0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.320
<v Speaker 2>And when he said that, he doesn't mean it was

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.360
<v Speaker 2>just turned off like it could also mean, you know,

0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:03.400
<v Speaker 2>it was put into flight mode or it might have

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:04.400
<v Speaker 2>gone flat.

0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.040
<v Speaker 1>So just to clarify, it's over those two days where

0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.480
<v Speaker 1>mister Lynn's phone can't be detected by any cellular towers,

0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:13.800
<v Speaker 1>he has gone back to the one and Gata Valley

0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.920
<v Speaker 1>and burnt the bodies of mister Hill and missus Clay.

0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we do think that because under cross examination by

0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Michael McGrath, this is miss Lynn's other lawyer, Dr Sorrel,

0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:28.520
<v Speaker 2>he agreed it was not inconsistent with the scenario in

0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:30.720
<v Speaker 2>which the phone was turned off or put in flight

0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.480
<v Speaker 2>mode as it returned to the alpine region. And that's

0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 2>again mister Lynn has admitted to this. This is the

0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.080
<v Speaker 2>account he gave to police that he did return in

0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.480
<v Speaker 2>November twenty twenty and he burnt the bodies.

0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.240
<v Speaker 1>But did he return to the bodies sometime around May

0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:45.720
<v Speaker 1>to check up on them? Is that right?

0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So we've previously heard that mister Lynn did actually

0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.880
<v Speaker 2>return to Union's Spur Track twice May twenty twenty, so

0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.400
<v Speaker 2>a couple months after and that was to check if

0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.280
<v Speaker 2>the remains had been uncovered, if they were still there,

0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.560
<v Speaker 2>I guess, And then he's come back again in November

0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.680
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty and that's when he's actually burnt them.

0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:04.720
<v Speaker 1>And to round out the week. Is it right to

0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:06.320
<v Speaker 1>say we heard from a ballistics expert.

0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.880
<v Speaker 2>YEP, that's right. So we heard from a guy called

0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 2>Paul Griffiths. He is a leading Senior Constable of Police

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 2>and he's a ballistics and firearms expert with the Forensic

0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:20.640
<v Speaker 2>Services Center. So he examined mister Lynn's shotgun. He's barathium

0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:25.960
<v Speaker 2>twelve gage shotgun and he carried out trajectory testing, so

0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.520
<v Speaker 2>that involved actually firing the firearm in different scenarios to

0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:31.880
<v Speaker 2>see what would happen to the shot and so Constable

0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Griffiths conducted three of these tests, the trajectory tests. There

0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.760
<v Speaker 2>was one where missus Clay one hundred and sixty centimeters

0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:43.080
<v Speaker 2>tool is in a standing position, she's in a semi

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:46.680
<v Speaker 2>crouch position, and she's in a crouch position, and he

0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.160
<v Speaker 2>found it was plausible that she was shot in the

0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.760
<v Speaker 2>head while in a standing position. Now, of course, mister

0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.640
<v Speaker 2>lind'sccount is she was crouched. So this is a real

0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.760
<v Speaker 2>issue in dispute and part of why mister Dan went

0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.120
<v Speaker 2>hard on him during cross examination.

0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.399
<v Speaker 1>So last week we ended on a light note, and

0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:07.760
<v Speaker 1>I think to keep that tradition going, Is there anything

0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.600
<v Speaker 1>you can tell our listeners that was maybe less serious

0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:12.200
<v Speaker 1>and all the things we've heard so far.

0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.399
<v Speaker 2>Perhaps it doesn't sound so light. But actually brought the

0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.760
<v Speaker 2>shotgun into courts of mister Lynn's gun. So this is

0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:18.639
<v Speaker 2>quite a large weapon. I think it was almost a

0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.080
<v Speaker 2>meter long. It's quite big, sort of big black shotgun

0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.359
<v Speaker 2>and Costable Griffiths. Instead of being in the witness box,

0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.159
<v Speaker 2>he actually went into a little area that's reserved for

0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.320
<v Speaker 2>the media where the journalists usually sit, and he demonstrated

0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.959
<v Speaker 2>to the jury how this gun operates. And how it

0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.320
<v Speaker 2>was loaded. It obviously didn't have any ammunition in it.

0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:36.919
<v Speaker 1>You would hope not.

0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:38.040
<v Speaker 3>No, definitely not.

0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.439
<v Speaker 2>And then he actually got asked because he was pointing

0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:43.360
<v Speaker 2>it down the table and that was where the reporters

0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:46.320
<v Speaker 2>were all sitting. And then I think the judge actually

0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:48.600
<v Speaker 2>asked him to turn it around and pointed out the

0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 2>walls so it wasn't out of anyone's way and he

0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.719
<v Speaker 2>just sort of equipped, you're frightening the journalists, is what

0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:55.879
<v Speaker 2>Justice Michael Croucher said, which is a bit of a

0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:56.480
<v Speaker 2>light moment.

0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, thanks so much again Miles for your time. Andrew.

0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.360
<v Speaker 1>I'll be back this Saturday for his regular show, and

0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.600
<v Speaker 1>we'll be back next week with another bonus episode outlining

0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.280
<v Speaker 1>all the latest in this trial. But Miles will continue

0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.159
<v Speaker 1>to be in court every day, so be sure to

0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.320
<v Speaker 1>check the Herald Sun website and the paper for his

0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 1>daily updates. Thanks again, Thanks.

0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:21.119
<v Speaker 3>Laura, thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is a Sunday

0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.560
<v Speaker 3>Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia. Our producer is

0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:29.600
<v Speaker 3>Johnty Burton. For my columns, features and more, go to

0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:35.880
<v Speaker 3>Heroldsun dot com dot au, forward slash Andrew Rule one

0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:41.800
<v Speaker 3>word For advertising inquiries, go to news Podcasts sold at

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<v Speaker 3>news dot com dot au. That is all one word

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<v Speaker 3>this episode, links are in the description.

0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:01.600
<v Speaker 1>Can German