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Speaker 1: Appoche Production. Welcome back to the Clink.

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Speaker 2: Another fantastic episode that we had just had and this

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Speaker 2: week is once again and I keep saying better and

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Speaker 2: better and better.

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Speaker 1: This season has been phenomenal.

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Speaker 2: Season sixteen A big shout out Sideway, Surf Pod, Shape

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Speaker 2: and every one of you who weekly download.

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Speaker 1: We truly are grateful.

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Speaker 2: Well into the millions and millions of downloads now and

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Speaker 2: each and every one of our story that goes out

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Speaker 2: has been taken with open arms, and what feedback I

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Speaker 2: get it is absolutely phenomenal.

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Speaker 1: It's an honor to be here today.

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Speaker 2: I have a wonderful guest and yes it's our first

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Speaker 2: female for the season, which I'm very very happy about.

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Speaker 2: A wonderful woman who's doing amazing things today from a

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Speaker 2: past of some very very traumatic lived experience.

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Speaker 1: This particular guest was fake seeing well over thirty years

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Speaker 1: in a Thai prison. She is an ext addict.

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Speaker 2: She has lived a very colorful life and today she

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Speaker 2: is doing wonderful things to prevent people from going down

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Speaker 2: the paths that she once did. Her name is Holly

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Speaker 2: Dean Jones, and I welcome you to the Clink. Thank

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Speaker 2: you very much for joining me today.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on, Brent.

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Speaker 1: You have a story that truly blows my mind.

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Speaker 2: You hear of the Bangkok Hilton males and females who

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Speaker 2: have been stuck in Thailand some sentence to death, which

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Speaker 2: is something we'll talk about because it was something that

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Speaker 2: was very, very real to you.

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Speaker 1: It's a country that I love. I've spent many many

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Speaker 1: years there.

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Speaker 2: I lived there back and forth for over ten years,

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Speaker 2: training and fighting Muay Thai.

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Speaker 1: I understand the culture and I understand.

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Speaker 2: How strict the policies are over there when it comes

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Speaker 2: to drugs. You yourself obviously knew at that stage that

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Speaker 2: there were chances of things going wrong, but due to

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Speaker 2: what was happening in your life and the addiction that

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Speaker 2: you did have, you still ventured over there and come undone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I consider my life to have been relatively

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Speaker 3: normal up until I was about twelve years old. That

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Speaker 3: was when my mother and father separated. My dad went

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Speaker 3: back to Melbourne, my mother stayed here in Perth. We

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Speaker 3: were given a choice of who we wanted to live with.

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Speaker 3: I chose my mum because she pretty much let me

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Speaker 3: do whatever I want. There was sort of no rules

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Speaker 3: with mum, but Dad was really strict, So that was

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Speaker 3: one of the reasons I didn't want to go with dad.

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Speaker 3: Looking back now, wish I had of my life would

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Speaker 3: have been totally different. But yeah, you know, my mother

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Speaker 3: ended up taking up with the guy who we found

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Speaker 3: out months later was a heroin addict. Now, our family

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Speaker 3: had never known anyone that used drugs. We'd never seen drugs.

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Speaker 3: That just wasn't our world. We were normal people. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: So after a few months of them being together, the

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Speaker 3: truth came out about this guy, and my mom started

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Speaker 3: using heroin. From my mum using it, I've got three

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Speaker 3: brothers and a sister, every single one of us turned

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Speaker 3: into heroin addicts. Every single one of us ended up

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Speaker 3: in prison because of our addictions. Yeah. Look, heroin ruined

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Speaker 3: my life.

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Speaker 1: There's something I.

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Speaker 2: Want to ask you. You said that that you'd never

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Speaker 2: been around or seen drugs or the family. I did

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Speaker 2: a bit of homework, obviously not too much, and I

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Speaker 2: noticed in one of your interviews your mom was a madam,

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Speaker 2: if I can say that, looked after working girls.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So my mum started those businesses when I was about

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Speaker 3: twelve years eleven or twelve. So that's when our life

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Speaker 3: changed from being normal into something else.

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Speaker 2: Right, I was just going to say, because that era,

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Speaker 2: there was very common for a working girl to be

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Speaker 2: using the gear. I mean I grew up around that environment,

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Speaker 2: so I totally understand. And that era, that's all it was.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there was none of this ice. It was

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Speaker 2: a bit of gas and whatever, but it was predominantly heroin.

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Speaker 2: Heroin was the jug of choice to many workers, many

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Speaker 2: street people. Yeah, many people struggling just basically with serious

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Speaker 2: mental health issues to addiction.

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Speaker 1: It just was what it was. That was the era

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Speaker 1: for it.

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Speaker 2: So that's why I just wanted to touch on that,

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Speaker 2: because surely there must have been noments where well, please

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Speaker 2: tell me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: If there was working girls coming over.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying all, but I'm sure if there was

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Speaker 2: one or two there that were using you would have

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Speaker 2: seen them on the nod or sitting there scratching every

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Speaker 2: two minutes, and you know, tells tale signs that something

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Speaker 2: wasn't right.

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Speaker 3: Well, this is the thing brand At that time when

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Speaker 3: mum started these escort agencies, there were rules that my

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Speaker 3: mum had. She didn't want anyone to drink alcohol, to

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Speaker 3: be working for her or using drugs. So you've got

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Speaker 3: to remember, this is before we were even around that

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Speaker 3: type of thing, So my mum was very firm on that.

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Speaker 3: Then yeah, a few years later she herself started using,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, things all changed. But the major thing happened

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Speaker 3: was when she met up with this guy. That's when

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Speaker 3: our whole lives took a turn for the worst. And

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Speaker 3: like I said, you know, all of us became heroin addicts.

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Speaker 3: All of us went to prison pretty fucked up.

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Speaker 2: When when when we talk about a family, you know,

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Speaker 2: or really five six of you including mum all basically

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Speaker 2: I guess, following each other's footsteps.

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Speaker 1: I just just for our listener.

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Speaker 2: I get it, I understand, But there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: people that would be sitting there listening today going hang

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Speaker 2: on a sec. Why would one follow the other, and

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Speaker 2: especially knowing what they would see each other going through

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Speaker 2: the sicknesses and you know, sitting there on the nod

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Speaker 2: all the time, desperate times, doing desperate things like it's

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Speaker 2: just hand in hand with a heroin addiction. I've always

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Speaker 2: said I'd rather see someone on the gear than on

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Speaker 2: the on the ice, because at least you always knew that.

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Speaker 1: They even going to have a spill or just sit

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Speaker 1: there half asleep.

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Speaker 2: It just was Yes, okay, when people were desperate, things happen,

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Speaker 2: but it was nothing like we see today.

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Speaker 1: Nothing. It was an epidemic. It was a very bad epidemic.

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Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't good, But put it in perspective,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't bad compared to what we see today.

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Speaker 1: As far as I'm concerned with the drugs.

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Speaker 2: So my point being, though, you would have deserve so

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Speaker 2: much before I guess wanting to go that step and

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Speaker 2: have that taste. You know, was it a matter of

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Speaker 2: just having a shot. Someone talking and let's have a shot,

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Speaker 2: or you're chasing the dragon? I mean, very few people

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Speaker 2: snort heroin, so you know, it's not something that was

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Speaker 2: ever real. People did, but it wasn't something that was

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Speaker 2: a choice. Really, where did it start to evolve for

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Speaker 2: you for that to occur that five of you would

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Speaker 2: then follow, even mum like being so strict about following

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Speaker 2: a way of life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, if I was a person from the outside

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Speaker 3: looking in at my life, I think this chick's nuts.

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Speaker 3: Her whole family are nuts. Like I get it. But

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Speaker 3: when when you're addicted to heroin or any drug for

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Speaker 3: that matter, it takes over your whole life. You know,

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Speaker 3: when you watch your mother doing it, you know, friends

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Speaker 3: doing it, but when it's around you twenty four to seven,

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Speaker 3: it becomes normal. And when my mother started using, she

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Speaker 3: was very very wealthy, so we didn't see any downsides

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Speaker 3: to it for a long time because she had money,

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Speaker 3: she didn't have to break the law. She had three

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Speaker 3: thriving escort agencies. I mean, we grew up very very rich.

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Speaker 3: You know, I grew up in Mount Lawley, which is

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Speaker 3: a prestigious suburb over here. You know, my mum had

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Speaker 3: Rolls Royce's Mercedes. If she wanted to go out and

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Speaker 3: spend five grand on address, she would, So that just

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Speaker 3: gives you a bit of an idea of our life.

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Speaker 3: We were living very comfortable life. So you know, once

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Speaker 3: you're in the grips of addiction and you know you've

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Speaker 3: lost your businesses, you've lost all your money, that's what

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Speaker 3: it came down to. You know, my mother in the

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Speaker 3: end lost everything.

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Speaker 2: But getting to that addiction is my point because this

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Speaker 2: is where people don't understand, and like, once again, I'm

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Speaker 2: just sort of putting it out there so people get

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Speaker 2: that clear picture, because yes, it is a very addictive drug.

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Speaker 2: I've had friends od in my arms. I've been tempted

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Speaker 2: as a young person because I hung around people.

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Speaker 1: That were on the gear. You know, it's all been very,

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Speaker 1: very very much in front of me.

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Speaker 2: I was guilty of selling it when I was younger,

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Speaker 2: you know, because that's just what you did. So no

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Speaker 2: stranger to what it is and what it's about. But

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Speaker 2: I never seen one of the persons that I know

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Speaker 2: instantly have an addiction. Obviously by usage that becomes tolerance.

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Speaker 2: The body just wants and needs. Otherwise, sickness is a massive,

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Speaker 2: massive part of that addiction. Did you all just, at

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Speaker 2: one stage sit down together and have a shot together,

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Speaker 2: and then you know, every day use and then all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, six of you have got a habit.

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Speaker 3: No. So I asked my mum many many times if

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Speaker 3: I could have a snort, and she would always say no,

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Speaker 3: but I kept asking. Then one night she said yes, So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I had a snort. I didn't get sick at all.

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Speaker 3: And this is what I say to people. You know,

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Speaker 3: either don't get sick or you get violently ill. Now,

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Speaker 3: if I had have got violently ill, I never would

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Speaker 3: have wanted to touch her one ever again.

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Speaker 2: So you went to the beautiful euphoric place with the

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Speaker 2: white clouds and just floating in this beautiful feeling of bliss,

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Speaker 2: because that's the only way people ever describe it is

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Speaker 2: it's an ultimate bliss of just oh, I'm free of

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Speaker 2: everything for now.

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Speaker 3: And my mother for a long time had no idea

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Speaker 3: that I was using. In her head. I had that

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Speaker 3: one snort with her and that was it. Wow, But

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Speaker 3: I was still using. I was a drug addict, but

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Speaker 3: I kept it hidden.

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Speaker 1: And what about your siblings? Were you one after another?

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Speaker 1: Was it like you and the bro or you and

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Speaker 1: the sears?

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Speaker 2: I mean, how did that all happen that all of

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Speaker 2: you ended up within this period of the details.

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Speaker 3: I can't really say that we sort of well, we

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Speaker 3: did follow each other. But you know, you've got to

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Speaker 3: remember I went to jail when I was twenty. I

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Speaker 3: didn't get out until I was twenty five. So a

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Speaker 3: lot of stuff's going on on the outside with my family.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I'm not there, but yeah, consequently, at

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Speaker 3: one stage or another, we were all using wow or

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Speaker 3: went to jail. Yeah, And you know the other thing

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Speaker 3: as well. You know, when I was twenty one, a

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Speaker 3: year into my sentence in Western Australia. My mother odeed

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Speaker 3: and died.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I did see that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. About two years ago, my brother, my oldest brother,

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Speaker 3: got out of jail. Odeeden died that same night. And

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Speaker 3: about a year and a half ago, my sister Odeeden died.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, man, like, are you the baby? No?

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Speaker 3: Middle Wow?

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Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, So that's that's that's very hard.

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Speaker 3: Just you know, when I do interviews or podcasts and

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Speaker 3: you know, people hear all this, They're like, what the

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Speaker 3: fuck you're kidding, and I'm like, nah, like it's ship,

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Speaker 3: but mate, that's life when you're in this world. You know,

222
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Speaker 3: may I shouldn't be here of id that many times,

223
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Speaker 3: but you know I'm meant to be here.

224
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Speaker 2: You are, you are, and I can't wait for us

225
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Speaker 2: to get into the back end of your story because

226
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Speaker 2: it's phenomenal.

227
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Speaker 1: And this is why it's.

228
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Speaker 2: Important that people understand the true traumatic period of this.

229
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Speaker 2: This part of your life is fucked. There's no other

230
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Speaker 2: way of putting it.

231
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Speaker 1: It is, mate.

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Speaker 2: Many a person would have just surrendered and given themselves

233
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Speaker 2: a hot shot, taking their own lives. It's a lot

234
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Speaker 2: to go through, especially for a woman, you know, a

235
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Speaker 2: mom siblings, Like everything's falling apart from you that you

236
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Speaker 2: ever loved and knew because of one common factor, a

237
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Speaker 2: male coming into your lives and introducing a drug that

238
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Speaker 2: is a very very dangerous drug. And look, I don't

239
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Speaker 2: even want to get into it today because of the

240
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Speaker 2: shit they're putting with it in the fen and al

241
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Speaker 2: and everything else. I mean, this wasn't the same back then,

242
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Speaker 2: but the grade of heroin and you, obviously, which we

243
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Speaker 2: will talk about, also would have been a very high

244
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Speaker 2: tolerant person using gear from overseas as opposed to just

245
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Speaker 2: gear that we got here ten times cut down the

246
00:13:34,041 --> 00:13:36,601
Speaker 2: road and you know, shipped on to whomever and everyone.

247
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I can get it from the source. Now

248
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Speaker 1: you fuck you can't unless you're bringing it in. Unless

249
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Speaker 1: you're bringing it in in yourself.

250
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Speaker 2: No one's getting it from the source because everybody's gonna

251
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Speaker 2: It's just not how it works. The bottom line being

252
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Speaker 2: you first hand have experienced that, so you know you

253
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Speaker 2: do know. Look, I first of all, I find it.

254
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Speaker 2: I find it very hard. I guess to sit and

255
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Speaker 2: hear that it is hard, and I truly feel for you,

256
00:14:01,881 --> 00:14:05,281
Speaker 2: and I know it's some time now, and obviously you know,

257
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Speaker 2: these things will never leave you. But you know, I

258
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Speaker 2: pray that you're at peace with all that, because that's

259
00:14:13,881 --> 00:14:16,121
Speaker 2: a lot to carry, a lot to carry in life

260
00:14:17,041 --> 00:14:19,361
Speaker 2: for anyone. No matter how good you are, how much

261
00:14:19,401 --> 00:14:21,361
Speaker 2: you heal, you will never.

262
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Speaker 1: Escape those factors. That is a part of your life.

263
00:14:26,921 --> 00:14:29,521
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. You know, when we're talking about people

264
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Speaker 3: dying and all that type of thing, you know, it's

265
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Speaker 3: deeper than that. For me. I mean, you know, while

266
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Speaker 3: I was over in jail in Thailand, my father died.

267
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Speaker 3: So it all comes back to the fact that Heroine

268
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Speaker 3: fucked my life.

269
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Speaker 1: Well, you never even got to go to one of

270
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Speaker 1: their funerals.

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Speaker 3: I was allowed to go to my mother's funeral. You

272
00:14:52,921 --> 00:14:57,321
Speaker 3: were okay, but I was handcuffed to a screw. But yeah,

273
00:14:57,401 --> 00:14:59,201
Speaker 3: I was given the choice. You can either go to

274
00:14:59,241 --> 00:15:01,721
Speaker 3: the viewing of your mother's body or the funeral. And

275
00:15:01,801 --> 00:15:03,681
Speaker 3: at that time, my sister was in jail with me

276
00:15:03,721 --> 00:15:07,681
Speaker 3: as well, so we both went to mum's funeral in cuffs.

277
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Speaker 3: It was fucked, but yeah, better than nothing, you know.

278
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Speaker 3: But this is the point I want to make. You know,

279
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Speaker 3: it's not just yeah you're locked up. Things are happening

280
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Speaker 3: still on the outside life is going on for your

281
00:15:20,721 --> 00:15:24,921
Speaker 3: family and your friends, you know, so yeah, people dying, well,

282
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Speaker 3: I can't go to the funeral. I mean Thailand, just

283
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Speaker 3: shit like that, Brent. You know, there's just so many

284
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Speaker 3: ramifications from being a drug addict.

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Speaker 1: A choice, A choice, yeah.

286
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Speaker 2: And yes it is a choice that was made by yourself,

287
00:15:39,001 --> 00:15:39,961
Speaker 2: and no one's denying that.

288
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Speaker 1: Like we're all guilty.

289
00:15:41,201 --> 00:15:44,081
Speaker 2: I've made bad choices which have had several consequences of

290
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Speaker 2: years taken from me in jail.

291
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Speaker 1: I understand this.

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Speaker 2: And to anybody out there that's listening today, you know,

293
00:15:50,961 --> 00:15:52,961
Speaker 2: one thing about the Clink is that we do not

294
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Speaker 2: judge here by any means, and we don't sit here

295
00:15:56,761 --> 00:16:01,841
Speaker 2: and you know talking let's just say proudness of anything

296
00:16:01,881 --> 00:16:06,321
Speaker 2: that we've gone through. These are what make stories of redemption.

297
00:16:06,521 --> 00:16:09,001
Speaker 2: This is what you have to go through before you

298
00:16:09,001 --> 00:16:11,281
Speaker 2: can have a story of redemption. You know, you you'll

299
00:16:11,281 --> 00:16:13,121
Speaker 2: get a Carron out there. Ah, yes, well here was

300
00:16:13,161 --> 00:16:17,041
Speaker 2: a criminal, she wasn't she chose to go fuck yourself. Seriously,

301
00:16:17,081 --> 00:16:19,521
Speaker 2: go fuck yourself, because I guarantee there's plenty in your

302
00:16:19,521 --> 00:16:22,201
Speaker 2: closet that you don't talk about. And half the time

303
00:16:22,241 --> 00:16:24,721
Speaker 2: you're either pedophiles or fucking rapist or some sort of

304
00:16:24,721 --> 00:16:28,121
Speaker 2: sex offender that's hiding from everybody else and blaming everybody else.

305
00:16:28,201 --> 00:16:31,841
Speaker 2: So I have had enough of everybody sitting there pulling

306
00:16:31,881 --> 00:16:34,961
Speaker 2: straws on people whom have you know done this? But

307
00:16:35,641 --> 00:16:42,081
Speaker 2: you can't have a redemption story without some sort of traumatic, troublesome, heartbreaking,

308
00:16:42,801 --> 00:16:47,001
Speaker 2: powerful background that knocks you clean on your ass, hit

309
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Speaker 2: rock bottom as you have done, as I have done

310
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Speaker 2: a many one if just about everyone in my guess

311
00:16:52,841 --> 00:16:56,601
Speaker 2: you know, and there is so much knowledge and experience

312
00:16:56,761 --> 00:17:02,321
Speaker 2: and story to be heard that can help somebody else. Oh,

313
00:17:02,961 --> 00:17:05,441
Speaker 2: so you're in jail twenty one mum's past.

314
00:17:06,481 --> 00:17:08,241
Speaker 1: You got five years? Correct me? If from all?

315
00:17:09,001 --> 00:17:12,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got five years. When I got out, I

316
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,080
Speaker 3: had to do six months of work release.

317
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,120
Speaker 2: Can I ask what that charge was for you? And

318
00:17:17,201 --> 00:17:19,080
Speaker 2: feel free to tell me to mind my business.

319
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Speaker 3: I know it's not no, no, no, that was heroin

320
00:17:22,001 --> 00:17:22,840
Speaker 3: charges as well.

321
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:24,961
Speaker 1: So you got five years at twenty one years of

322
00:17:25,001 --> 00:17:26,400
Speaker 1: age with no jail time prior.

323
00:17:27,241 --> 00:17:29,321
Speaker 3: I was twenty when I went to jail.

324
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and five on the top or five on the bottom,

325
00:17:33,441 --> 00:17:34,360
Speaker 1: five on the bottom.

326
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Speaker 3: I had to serve five before parole. Fuck, I got

327
00:17:38,321 --> 00:17:42,120
Speaker 3: like eighteen and a half years to serve five minimum

328
00:17:42,201 --> 00:17:42,801
Speaker 3: of five.

329
00:17:42,921 --> 00:17:43,841
Speaker 1: So how many kells?

330
00:17:45,681 --> 00:17:46,720
Speaker 3: Ten ounces?

331
00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:52,161
Speaker 2: I thought getting six for three kilos was bad?

332
00:17:52,441 --> 00:17:53,081
Speaker 3: Ten ounces?

333
00:17:53,921 --> 00:17:55,721
Speaker 1: Did you plead? Did you plead not guilty?

334
00:17:56,681 --> 00:17:59,201
Speaker 3: I had to plead guilty. There was a copper hiding

335
00:17:59,241 --> 00:18:00,721
Speaker 3: in the cupboard with the recorder.

336
00:18:01,241 --> 00:18:02,681
Speaker 1: No. Wow.

337
00:18:02,761 --> 00:18:05,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, So two people I knew, like, this is a

338
00:18:05,681 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 3: spun out story.

339
00:18:06,801 --> 00:18:08,521
Speaker 1: Please if you will, would you share it?

340
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:14,880
Speaker 3: Because yeah, So two so called friends of mine and

341
00:18:14,961 --> 00:18:19,640
Speaker 3: my boyfriend Stevens. They were a couple. They wanted to

342
00:18:19,681 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 3: do a run from Thailand back here. They didn't know

343
00:18:23,801 --> 00:18:26,720
Speaker 3: anyone to buy the heroin from. So they said to

344
00:18:27,281 --> 00:18:30,321
Speaker 3: you know, Stephen, can you come over with us buy

345
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:32,200
Speaker 3: the heroine and give it to us? And he was

346
00:18:32,241 --> 00:18:36,601
Speaker 3: like yeah, no worries. And you know, they said, well,

347
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,281
Speaker 3: we don't know who to sell this amount to. And

348
00:18:39,321 --> 00:18:40,921
Speaker 3: I said, well, I'll get rid of it for you,

349
00:18:41,001 --> 00:18:43,640
Speaker 3: no problem. Let me know when you're back, I'll come

350
00:18:43,721 --> 00:18:46,321
Speaker 3: and pick it up, go and deliver it, and I'll

351
00:18:46,321 --> 00:18:50,041
Speaker 3: bring you back the money. Now, I don't know if

352
00:18:50,041 --> 00:18:52,920
Speaker 3: people believe this or not. I don't really care, but

353
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,640
Speaker 3: it was a favor we weren't making one cent of this.

354
00:18:57,001 --> 00:18:59,440
Speaker 3: It was purely a favor for a friend.

355
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:01,321
Speaker 2: You would have been a good friend to have back

356
00:19:01,321 --> 00:19:03,441
Speaker 2: in the day because everyone else would have been cutons,

357
00:19:03,921 --> 00:19:04,360
Speaker 2: naked it.

358
00:19:06,441 --> 00:19:11,160
Speaker 3: Wow, but that's not who I am, you know. Yeah.

359
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:14,161
Speaker 3: So they rang me when they got back. They said, yeah, yeah,

360
00:19:14,241 --> 00:19:17,921
Speaker 3: all good. You know, we're at this hotel, so I'll

361
00:19:18,001 --> 00:19:20,240
Speaker 3: rock up to the hotel, go in and you know,

362
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,041
Speaker 3: all cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no problem. I said, all right,

363
00:19:23,281 --> 00:19:25,761
Speaker 3: not grab the gear and I'll get going. So I've

364
00:19:25,761 --> 00:19:27,881
Speaker 3: got the gear, I'm walking to the lift. Then all

365
00:19:28,001 --> 00:19:29,721
Speaker 3: these fucking coppers come out.

366
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:31,481
Speaker 1: Controlled delivery.

367
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:39,161
Speaker 3: Controlled delivery, all right, yeah so yeah, So they got

368
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,640
Speaker 3: stopped at the airport taking to the fucking hospital. Each

369
00:19:42,681 --> 00:19:47,600
Speaker 3: had five ounces internally. The cops said, all right, so

370
00:19:47,681 --> 00:19:49,321
Speaker 3: what's the story, and they said, oh, we're doing the

371
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:56,801
Speaker 3: run for Holly, so your principal now, yeah, so yeah,

372
00:19:56,961 --> 00:20:00,801
Speaker 3: it was controlled delivery. To me, I had no idea

373
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,241
Speaker 3: for a few days what had actually happened that they've

374
00:20:03,281 --> 00:20:03,961
Speaker 3: given me up.

375
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

376
00:20:04,681 --> 00:20:07,761
Speaker 3: So that was my first stint in jail doing a

377
00:20:07,761 --> 00:20:08,761
Speaker 3: favor for a mate.

378
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a big whack for a young woman first.

379
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:17,121
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's huge. That's why I needed to ask,

380
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:19,561
Speaker 2: because I'm thinking, hang on a sec here, you're doing

381
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,721
Speaker 2: five whether you're doing five on the bottom or the top,

382
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,321
Speaker 2: are you're twenty years of age or a young woman.

383
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,360
Speaker 1: You have no jail or no prize as such.

384
00:20:27,681 --> 00:20:30,441
Speaker 2: How the hell unless you've been involved in some sort

385
00:20:30,481 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 2: of manslaughter or murder, would you get that? Or drug importation?

386
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,041
Speaker 2: So there's the answer. Thank you for sharing that. Now

387
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:38,161
Speaker 2: I get I get it.

388
00:20:38,761 --> 00:20:43,281
Speaker 1: I'm sure everybody else does. So you do your five years.

389
00:20:43,321 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 2: And I believe your partner who become your husband later on,

390
00:20:47,281 --> 00:20:49,441
Speaker 2: but I'll let you book about that, Stephen.

391
00:20:51,721 --> 00:20:55,241
Speaker 1: He's gone to Thailand and you get out.

392
00:20:55,400 --> 00:21:01,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, when I got arrested, my lawyer said, look, Holly,

393
00:21:01,681 --> 00:21:04,161
Speaker 3: if you're going to be doing five years on the bottom,

394
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:07,321
Speaker 3: he'll be doing So I've got a message to him

395
00:21:07,321 --> 00:21:09,880
Speaker 3: and I said, don't come back, Like why did two

396
00:21:09,961 --> 00:21:12,400
Speaker 3: of us need to go to jail? Like do you

397
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 3: know what I mean? Doesn't make sense? Yeah, So, yeah,

398
00:21:15,961 --> 00:21:18,321
Speaker 3: you know I got out after doing the five, finished

399
00:21:18,321 --> 00:21:22,281
Speaker 3: more work release, and on a plane I got over

400
00:21:22,321 --> 00:21:24,281
Speaker 3: to Thailand. Yeah, to be to be with him.

401
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,561
Speaker 1: Did you have an addiction in jail at that stage.

402
00:21:27,281 --> 00:21:30,360
Speaker 3: And were you used Yeah, yeah, I was using in jail,

403
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,360
Speaker 3: but I didn't have an addiction. Just you know, if

404
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,880
Speaker 3: we've got gear in every so often, Yeah, we do use.

405
00:21:34,961 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 1: You know, they call it the remissions or the tickle.

406
00:21:38,201 --> 00:21:43,521
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, with the politics that come with it later.

407
00:21:44,321 --> 00:21:45,041
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

408
00:21:45,241 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 1: And I may not.

409
00:21:45,761 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 3: I got busted a lot of times because, as you know,

410
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 3: you get your roned in jail down the back, you know,

411
00:21:51,681 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 3: but part of it.

412
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,841
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh wow, So jail was I guess a bit

413
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,921
Speaker 2: of a roller coaster for you. I'm sure you would

414
00:22:00,961 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 2: have done it okay, but then again, I suppose you

415
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,921
Speaker 2: would have done it hard at some stages there.

416
00:22:05,561 --> 00:22:07,321
Speaker 3: Oh for sure. You know, like I said, you know,

417
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 3: the death of my mother, but she was like my

418
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,721
Speaker 3: best friend, So that was Yeah, that was just horrible

419
00:22:12,801 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 3: knowing that, you know, when I get out, Mum's not

420
00:22:15,721 --> 00:22:20,281
Speaker 3: going to be there, you know. But look, you know,

421
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,801
Speaker 3: I've always lived the way like I've always been a

422
00:22:25,921 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 3: very positive person and I've got a really strong mindset

423
00:22:29,961 --> 00:22:32,360
Speaker 3: which has helped me get through the things that I've

424
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,801
Speaker 3: that I've gone through. Yeah, I think if I wasn't

425
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,481
Speaker 3: who I am, things would have been a lot more

426
00:22:41,561 --> 00:22:42,281
Speaker 3: difficult for me.

427
00:22:43,001 --> 00:22:46,001
Speaker 2: I can actually see looking at you and when you're speaking.

428
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 2: Why you said that, I'm very big on body language

429
00:22:49,001 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 2: and it's something that you know, I like to specialize

430
00:22:53,681 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 2: in with my past. You generally can you know, I'm

431
00:22:58,201 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: very very good judging character when it comes to looking

432
00:23:00,481 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 2: someone in the face and the eyes.

433
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,721
Speaker 1: And you said something prior to our thing.

434
00:23:03,761 --> 00:23:07,041
Speaker 2: You know you're trouble about being able to visually see something.

435
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,801
Speaker 2: I'm the same, you know. I want to see who

436
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,721
Speaker 2: I'm talking to. I want to feel that person.

437
00:23:10,761 --> 00:23:11,521
Speaker 1: Even though we're.

438
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:15,281
Speaker 2: Here talking through a screen, I can still see when

439
00:23:15,321 --> 00:23:17,801
Speaker 2: I feel that it's bullshit, and I can see someone's

440
00:23:17,801 --> 00:23:21,401
Speaker 2: talking shit, you know, And you do. You come across

441
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 2: very strong and I can slowly put together. And I really,

442
00:23:25,521 --> 00:23:27,880
Speaker 2: until we talk about it, don't have a full.

443
00:23:27,681 --> 00:23:29,481
Speaker 1: Idea of how hard it was for you in time.

444
00:23:29,521 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: I can only just imagine.

445
00:23:31,321 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: But I can see a woman there that is a

446
00:23:33,281 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 2: survivor someone that's willing to just battle through, you know,

447
00:23:38,481 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 2: thick skin. And credit to you because look, I guess

448
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 2: Balley and maybe one or two other places, but the

449
00:23:47,521 --> 00:23:53,801
Speaker 2: Bangkok Hilton, mate, I've never heard anything anything good come

450
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 2: from it, and I have met no people that have

451
00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 2: been there back in the day. Obviously it's changed today.

452
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 2: It's not the same jail as what it once was,

453
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,121
Speaker 2: but the system's no different.

454
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,921
Speaker 1: Really, is it not at all?

455
00:24:05,521 --> 00:24:05,561
Speaker 3: No?

456
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: What made you other.

457
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 2: Than Steven want to go to Thailand? Was it purely

458
00:24:10,041 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 2: just for your heart?

459
00:24:14,201 --> 00:24:14,401
Speaker 1: Well?

460
00:24:14,441 --> 00:24:18,721
Speaker 3: When I got out of jail, Oh, look, I love Stephen,

461
00:24:19,321 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 3: like here was my soul mate, like on you. As

462
00:24:23,281 --> 00:24:25,041
Speaker 3: soon as I met him. I will be with this

463
00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:29,281
Speaker 3: guy and we will be together forever. I just knew

464
00:24:29,321 --> 00:24:33,561
Speaker 3: straight away. So yeah, you know, I knew before I

465
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 3: got out. That's that's my plan. I'm going to finished

466
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 3: my work, release and I'm gone.

467
00:24:38,001 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 2: You're off to Thailand. Australia is behind you for the

468
00:24:40,521 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 2: moment you get to Thailand. Obviously you flew into the

469
00:24:44,241 --> 00:24:46,521
Speaker 2: old Bangkok Airport I'm guessing.

470
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:52,041
Speaker 3: Yeah, the old one, Yeah, which was resiving, more intimidating

471
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 3: then than what it is now.

472
00:24:53,961 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 2: I think you know, if you walked out of the

473
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,641
Speaker 2: old Bangkok Bangkok Airport, you would have had a real

474
00:24:59,001 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: rude shock for your first couple of times because it

475
00:25:01,321 --> 00:25:03,281
Speaker 2: was quite quite overwhelming.

476
00:25:04,041 --> 00:25:06,321
Speaker 1: But here you are. Had you been to Thailand at

477
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:06,721
Speaker 1: all prior.

478
00:25:07,721 --> 00:25:12,401
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, many times. I also like you. I love Thailand,

479
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: beautiful place, great food. Yeah, I loved it. So, yeah,

480
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 3: you know I'll go back. I'm flying between Thailand and Perth.

481
00:25:23,241 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 3: I come back a couple of times a year to

482
00:25:24,681 --> 00:25:28,561
Speaker 3: see family and friends. So Stephen was on the run,

483
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 3: and a couple of other guys we knew were on

484
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:39,281
Speaker 3: the run. So around probably I can't even remember what

485
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 3: year it was. Anyway, this friend did a run with

486
00:25:42,561 --> 00:25:47,001
Speaker 3: a kilo from Thailand to Darwin. He got busted at

487
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 3: Darwin Airport, and you know, obviously they want to know

488
00:25:51,521 --> 00:25:54,161
Speaker 3: what's going on. And they said, oh, so he could

489
00:25:54,201 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 3: get time off your sentence. He said, I'll give you somebody.

490
00:25:58,281 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 3: I'll give you Holly. So he knew what I was

491
00:26:01,441 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 3: doing with these calendars.

492
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,041
Speaker 1: And everyone wanted a piece of Holliday.

493
00:26:11,521 --> 00:26:15,401
Speaker 3: Yeah, so wow, I'll fill you in on this calendar

494
00:26:15,441 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 3: otherwise people won't get it. So I was sending calendars back,

495
00:26:20,241 --> 00:26:23,521
Speaker 3: like the long, rectangular ones with fifteen grams of heroin

496
00:26:24,441 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 3: in it. So I was sending that back to myself,

497
00:26:29,041 --> 00:26:31,721
Speaker 3: so when I would be in Perth, i'd have gearing us.

498
00:26:31,761 --> 00:26:33,241
Speaker 3: I didn't want to buy the shit on the street,

499
00:26:35,521 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 3: so that's what I was doing. He knew this, so yeah, okay,

500
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:44,001
Speaker 3: I'll give you HOLI. She's doing this well. I found

501
00:26:44,041 --> 00:26:47,281
Speaker 3: out later I had been under surveillance by the Thai

502
00:26:47,441 --> 00:26:51,801
Speaker 3: cops for three months. So what happened was a couple

503
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,081
Speaker 3: of weeks before I was arrested in Thailand, Stephen had

504
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:58,641
Speaker 3: done a run from Thailand to Melbourne. He got busted

505
00:26:58,681 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 3: in Melbourne and went to jail.

506
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,281
Speaker 1: There was that due to.

507
00:27:02,281 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: The warrants that he'd had prior in perth or that

508
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:06,561
Speaker 2: was no completely.

509
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 3: He got busted for the kilo that he had on him, okay,

510
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,321
Speaker 3: but then he got done for being on the run

511
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 3: as well. So yeah, so he was arrested. I was

512
00:27:17,921 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 3: tying things up in Thailand and my plan was to

513
00:27:20,481 --> 00:27:25,041
Speaker 3: go to Melbourne, live there and visit Stephen. But they

514
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,881
Speaker 3: didn't happen. So a friend of mine came to pick

515
00:27:27,921 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 3: me up one night from my apartment. He took me

516
00:27:31,441 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 3: to the post office where I mailed that calendar. I

517
00:27:36,441 --> 00:27:38,761
Speaker 3: picked up my mail. There was a letter from my

518
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,161
Speaker 3: dad there which I threw in the glove box. During Later,

519
00:27:43,041 --> 00:27:45,121
Speaker 3: I said to my mate hungry, and he's like yeah.

520
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 3: I said, all right, we'll go and get something to eat,

521
00:27:47,281 --> 00:27:49,241
Speaker 3: but there was nowhere to park, so I said, look,

522
00:27:49,281 --> 00:27:51,801
Speaker 3: you just keep chucking laps around the block. I'll get

523
00:27:51,801 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 3: the food and just get back in the car. He

524
00:27:55,801 --> 00:27:58,561
Speaker 3: pulls up. I get in and I'm about to close

525
00:27:58,561 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 3: the door and all these blokes run at the car

526
00:28:00,521 --> 00:28:03,281
Speaker 3: and I'm playing tuger war with my door. I didn't

527
00:28:03,281 --> 00:28:04,001
Speaker 3: know they were cops.

528
00:28:05,521 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

529
00:28:07,201 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 3: So I'm pulling the door and I'm saying that my

530
00:28:09,801 --> 00:28:12,921
Speaker 3: mate fucking go. But there was nowhere to go. There

531
00:28:12,961 --> 00:28:18,441
Speaker 3: was that much traffic well boxed in. So we're both

532
00:28:18,481 --> 00:28:20,801
Speaker 3: put in separate cars. I was taken back to the

533
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:26,561
Speaker 3: post office to get ID. Yeah, and then they were like, okay,

534
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,201
Speaker 3: where do you live? And I was like, nowhere. I'm

535
00:28:30,481 --> 00:28:32,401
Speaker 3: like a gypsy. I go and stay here for a while,

536
00:28:32,481 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 3: ago and stay there. I don't have an address. No,

537
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 3: I think you're lying, And I'm like, well, think what

538
00:28:37,961 --> 00:28:39,361
Speaker 3: you want. I don't have an address.

539
00:28:39,361 --> 00:28:41,001
Speaker 1: But that was pretty common too back then.

540
00:28:41,441 --> 00:28:44,281
Speaker 2: Let's be honest, Holly, there was very few times that

541
00:28:44,361 --> 00:28:47,121
Speaker 2: I ever knew an addict that was on the gear

542
00:28:47,201 --> 00:28:50,001
Speaker 2: that didn't have any said address that was just either

543
00:28:50,601 --> 00:28:53,161
Speaker 2: twenty other places that they could and do stay or

544
00:28:53,201 --> 00:28:56,521
Speaker 2: hotels and well fifty different.

545
00:28:57,761 --> 00:28:57,961
Speaker 1: Yeah.

546
00:28:58,001 --> 00:29:01,761
Speaker 3: Well I was actually lying, Brent, and I figured this

547
00:29:01,801 --> 00:29:04,881
Speaker 3: out about fifteen minutes later when I realized they're driving

548
00:29:04,921 --> 00:29:09,601
Speaker 3: me back to my apartment. They knew, they knew all along, right,

549
00:29:09,641 --> 00:29:13,001
Speaker 3: but I didn't know that, So deny, deny, deny. Then

550
00:29:13,041 --> 00:29:17,481
Speaker 3: I realized. So we get to the apartment, all these

551
00:29:17,561 --> 00:29:20,001
Speaker 3: cops are there, and the head bloke says, do you

552
00:29:20,041 --> 00:29:23,561
Speaker 3: recognize him? I said, nah, ah, okay, he's been living

553
00:29:23,601 --> 00:29:24,761
Speaker 3: next door to you for three months.

554
00:29:24,801 --> 00:29:25,881
Speaker 2: I was like fuck.

555
00:29:27,201 --> 00:29:29,601
Speaker 3: And then it sort of dawned on me. I remember

556
00:29:29,641 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 3: going into the lift one day and this bloke was

557
00:29:31,721 --> 00:29:33,801
Speaker 3: in there, and as you do, you smile at people

558
00:29:33,881 --> 00:29:36,441
Speaker 3: like hey, hello, you know, and he quickly like looked

559
00:29:36,441 --> 00:29:38,281
Speaker 3: away from me, and I thought, fuck, that's weird. What

560
00:29:38,321 --> 00:29:41,281
Speaker 3: a weirdo. But I sort of thought, oh, well, not

561
00:29:41,321 --> 00:29:45,641
Speaker 3: everyone's friendly. And then I realized, fuck, it's the cop.

562
00:29:46,321 --> 00:29:47,641
Speaker 3: No wonder he didn't want to look at me.

563
00:29:48,401 --> 00:29:52,201
Speaker 1: Wow, So you tell you unknowingly knowingly pinned him.

564
00:29:52,121 --> 00:29:58,481
Speaker 3: Already exactly crazy. So yeah, we went up to my apartment.

565
00:29:59,321 --> 00:30:03,601
Speaker 3: They started searching the place, luckily for me. I was

566
00:30:03,641 --> 00:30:05,681
Speaker 3: able to get a bag of jury. I had him

567
00:30:05,721 --> 00:30:08,401
Speaker 3: the bedside table. I got that out of the draw

568
00:30:08,441 --> 00:30:10,641
Speaker 3: and put it down my jeans because I knew if

569
00:30:10,641 --> 00:30:11,721
Speaker 3: they got it it'd be gone.

570
00:30:12,081 --> 00:30:12,281
Speaker 1: Yeah.

571
00:30:14,561 --> 00:30:18,361
Speaker 3: Yeah, So they're searching the apartment. I had another calendar

572
00:30:18,401 --> 00:30:21,641
Speaker 3: in a drawer, and I had an ounce of heroin

573
00:30:21,761 --> 00:30:26,121
Speaker 3: in a speaker. That morning when I'd taken the gear

574
00:30:26,121 --> 00:30:28,601
Speaker 3: out to have a shot, one of the screws was

575
00:30:28,641 --> 00:30:30,761
Speaker 3: loose and I thought, fuck, I'll fix it when I

576
00:30:30,801 --> 00:30:33,961
Speaker 3: get back home tonight. Well, now I was freaking out.

577
00:30:34,121 --> 00:30:34,281
Speaker 1: Thought.

578
00:30:34,321 --> 00:30:37,161
Speaker 3: I thought, if they'd pick up that stereo, the ma's

579
00:30:37,201 --> 00:30:40,561
Speaker 3: gonna fall off and boom and this ounce is going

580
00:30:40,601 --> 00:30:45,681
Speaker 3: to fall out. Oh man, I was like whoa. So anyway,

581
00:30:46,081 --> 00:30:49,961
Speaker 3: one guy searched where the calendar was and he didn't

582
00:30:49,961 --> 00:30:53,321
Speaker 3: see it and he moved on. Then another cop went

583
00:30:53,401 --> 00:30:55,361
Speaker 3: to search the same drawing. I said, hey, your mate's

584
00:30:55,361 --> 00:30:58,361
Speaker 3: already searched there, like you know. Well, he didn't care.

585
00:30:58,441 --> 00:31:00,881
Speaker 3: He kept looking, pulled out the calendar and I was

586
00:31:00,961 --> 00:31:05,361
Speaker 3: like fuck. So he found that I was been an

587
00:31:05,401 --> 00:31:09,121
Speaker 3: out about the speaker, but thankfully that didn't happen.

588
00:31:09,521 --> 00:31:11,641
Speaker 2: Oh so the calendar was like, oh sweet, we can

589
00:31:11,681 --> 00:31:13,001
Speaker 2: match that up with the postal thing.

590
00:31:13,081 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: So that's a pinch. Basically, they were happy with that.

591
00:31:15,281 --> 00:31:15,761
Speaker 1: Is that right?

592
00:31:16,801 --> 00:31:19,001
Speaker 3: Oh it was a pinch because there was fifteen Graham's

593
00:31:19,041 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 3: heroin in it in.

594
00:31:20,601 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 2: That still and the one that you'd already picked up

595
00:31:22,721 --> 00:31:23,561
Speaker 2: from the post office.

596
00:31:23,641 --> 00:31:26,881
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they.

597
00:31:25,921 --> 00:31:28,561
Speaker 2: Would have been both the same and being under surveillance,

598
00:31:28,641 --> 00:31:29,881
Speaker 2: then naturally they've got you.

599
00:31:30,601 --> 00:31:37,161
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly. But hang on, there's a funny

600
00:31:37,161 --> 00:31:42,081
Speaker 3: story about that later. Oh god, So all these utes

601
00:31:42,241 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 3: are brought to my apartment complex. They moved every single

602
00:31:47,321 --> 00:31:49,801
Speaker 3: thing of that I had in that apartment onto their

603
00:31:49,801 --> 00:31:54,241
Speaker 3: pickup trucks, every single thing. And I was like, far

604
00:31:54,641 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: out steal it. They stole everything. Huh coppers, the cops.

605
00:32:01,801 --> 00:32:03,681
Speaker 1: They took all your furniture. I've never heard of that

606
00:32:03,721 --> 00:32:04,641
Speaker 1: in my fucking life.

607
00:32:05,121 --> 00:32:08,881
Speaker 3: I took everything, every single thing. That's why I was

608
00:32:08,921 --> 00:32:11,561
Speaker 3: happy I got the jewelry, because I knew I'd need

609
00:32:11,561 --> 00:32:15,161
Speaker 3: that for money in jail, you know. Yeah. From there,

610
00:32:15,241 --> 00:32:19,081
Speaker 3: I was taken to the Drug Suppression Bureau for a

611
00:32:19,121 --> 00:32:21,881
Speaker 3: few hours and then taken to the actual lock up.

612
00:32:23,001 --> 00:32:25,761
Speaker 3: So we got there. There was a few other girls

613
00:32:25,801 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 3: in the cells. They sort of explained everything to me.

614
00:32:30,281 --> 00:32:32,001
Speaker 3: The next day, they said, oh, you stay here for

615
00:32:32,041 --> 00:32:34,001
Speaker 3: two weeks and then you go to the main jail.

616
00:32:34,001 --> 00:32:36,641
Speaker 3: And I was like, okay, cool, I don't know why

617
00:32:37,201 --> 00:32:42,801
Speaker 3: me and my case partner were kept there for a month. Yeah,

618
00:32:42,841 --> 00:32:44,521
Speaker 3: And I'd say to the cops, you know, when we're

619
00:32:44,521 --> 00:32:46,521
Speaker 3: going to jail. You don't want to go jail. I

620
00:32:46,521 --> 00:32:48,201
Speaker 3: don't want to stay here because it was just shit.

621
00:32:49,401 --> 00:32:51,881
Speaker 3: I thought there'd be a bit more freedom at the

622
00:32:51,921 --> 00:32:54,761
Speaker 3: actual prison, you know. And they were like, I don't

623
00:32:54,761 --> 00:32:56,761
Speaker 3: mean too much of a hurry to go there. Once

624
00:32:56,801 --> 00:32:59,161
Speaker 3: you're there, you'd be wishing you were here. And I

625
00:32:59,201 --> 00:33:05,321
Speaker 3: was like, okay, So yeah, after a month got to

626
00:33:05,361 --> 00:33:11,281
Speaker 3: the main prison and yeah, that was like whoa that? Yeah,

627
00:33:11,281 --> 00:33:12,001
Speaker 3: that was crazy.

628
00:33:12,321 --> 00:33:14,281
Speaker 1: Had you admitted to anything at this stage at the

629
00:33:14,281 --> 00:33:14,881
Speaker 1: police station?

630
00:33:15,121 --> 00:33:18,041
Speaker 2: Had you said no, that was mine? Where you totally

631
00:33:18,121 --> 00:33:20,801
Speaker 2: in denial of what they were alleging.

632
00:33:22,561 --> 00:33:24,961
Speaker 3: No, I didn't cop to anything for a long time.

633
00:33:26,761 --> 00:33:33,601
Speaker 3: That was only because my co offender, he wasn't pleading guilty.

634
00:33:33,641 --> 00:33:36,321
Speaker 3: He said I'm going to fight it. I said, doesn't

635
00:33:36,361 --> 00:33:38,601
Speaker 3: make sense. Why the fuck are you trying to fight this?

636
00:33:38,681 --> 00:33:41,441
Speaker 3: They've got us cold man, there's no fighting.

637
00:33:41,121 --> 00:33:42,841
Speaker 1: It obviously as well.

638
00:33:43,561 --> 00:33:46,921
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, obviously, if there's a chance of getting

639
00:33:47,041 --> 00:33:48,921
Speaker 3: out of it, of course you fight it. But for

640
00:33:49,041 --> 00:33:51,121
Speaker 3: us there was none. We were fucked.

641
00:33:51,401 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: And obviously he's gone to the men's. You've gone to

642
00:33:53,481 --> 00:33:56,321
Speaker 2: the women's and that's it. Did you didn't see each

643
00:33:56,361 --> 00:33:58,161
Speaker 2: other at all?

644
00:33:58,201 --> 00:33:59,841
Speaker 1: Fush? No.

645
00:33:59,961 --> 00:34:03,241
Speaker 3: He'd been in prison in Thailand probably about ten fifteen

646
00:34:03,321 --> 00:34:06,321
Speaker 3: years prior, and he told me many any stories about jail,

647
00:34:06,681 --> 00:34:09,921
Speaker 3: but I actually thought he was exaggerating. But once I

648
00:34:10,041 --> 00:34:13,921
Speaker 3: got there myself, I realized far out he wasn't even exaggerating.

649
00:34:14,121 --> 00:34:15,001
Speaker 3: This is fucked.

650
00:34:15,681 --> 00:34:16,841
Speaker 1: How long did he get, Holly?

651
00:34:16,881 --> 00:34:20,321
Speaker 2: Did he get the death penalty?

652
00:34:19,641 --> 00:34:24,801
Speaker 3: He got life? Then he appealed that and it came

653
00:34:24,921 --> 00:34:30,681
Speaker 3: down to I can't remember, but it was in the thirties,

654
00:34:30,721 --> 00:34:32,441
Speaker 3: maybe thirty three or something.

655
00:34:32,561 --> 00:34:33,401
Speaker 1: So he's still there.

656
00:34:34,241 --> 00:34:40,801
Speaker 3: No, no, No, he returned to Sydney years ago. He's dead now.

657
00:34:40,841 --> 00:34:46,601
Speaker 3: He died of a heart attack. Wow, because there's a

658
00:34:46,641 --> 00:34:47,641
Speaker 3: prisoner transfer.

659
00:34:48,201 --> 00:34:50,241
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I have heard of this. If you'd liked it,

660
00:34:50,241 --> 00:34:52,121
Speaker 2: because you've lived it. So would you like to explain

661
00:34:52,161 --> 00:34:55,361
Speaker 2: that to our guest, our audience? Sorry, because I don't

662
00:34:55,361 --> 00:34:57,441
Speaker 2: think anybody else could explain it better than yourself.

663
00:34:58,641 --> 00:35:03,881
Speaker 3: Yeah. So Australia and Thailand have an agreement which is

664
00:35:04,081 --> 00:35:08,401
Speaker 3: a prisoner trance. So if you get a life sentence,

665
00:35:08,841 --> 00:35:11,441
Speaker 3: you have to serve eight years before you can apply

666
00:35:11,521 --> 00:35:14,921
Speaker 3: to transfer home. But if you have a number, which

667
00:35:15,001 --> 00:35:18,041
Speaker 3: I did, you serve four years before you can apply

668
00:35:18,121 --> 00:35:22,961
Speaker 3: to transfer. So you know, when I got thirty one years,

669
00:35:23,041 --> 00:35:24,841
Speaker 3: I was a static because I hadn't know.

670
00:35:25,081 --> 00:35:26,801
Speaker 1: Life is life is life over there?

671
00:35:27,361 --> 00:35:29,721
Speaker 2: Yeah, and thirty one is thirty one so which which

672
00:35:29,801 --> 00:35:32,161
Speaker 2: let's put it in hindsight because when we talk, yes,

673
00:35:32,161 --> 00:35:36,241
Speaker 2: in Australia, life is life, but also to the old

674
00:35:36,281 --> 00:35:39,081
Speaker 2: saying that ten years is a brick and ten years

675
00:35:39,161 --> 00:35:42,001
Speaker 2: is what used to be life. When I first started going,

676
00:35:42,121 --> 00:35:44,121
Speaker 2: I'm forty eight and went into jarla Aden blakes were

677
00:35:44,161 --> 00:35:47,281
Speaker 2: doing life and it was ten years. Then they changed

678
00:35:47,321 --> 00:35:50,121
Speaker 2: that massively and you know a lot of blokes had

679
00:35:50,201 --> 00:35:53,041
Speaker 2: to then kick on with life. So yeah, just so

680
00:35:53,161 --> 00:35:55,561
Speaker 2: it's it's clear, because it is a little bit conflicting

681
00:35:55,601 --> 00:35:58,441
Speaker 2: because life generally means you're going to get out sometimes

682
00:35:58,481 --> 00:35:59,561
Speaker 2: and then other times.

683
00:35:59,441 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: Life is life. Thailand, life is life. Yeah.

684
00:36:03,801 --> 00:36:07,761
Speaker 3: Yeah, So when I got sentenced I'd already been in

685
00:36:07,881 --> 00:36:11,401
Speaker 3: jail for three years, so I had one more year

686
00:36:11,441 --> 00:36:13,361
Speaker 3: to go and then I could apply to transfer home.

687
00:36:13,521 --> 00:36:16,201
Speaker 3: So I was stoked, you know, Like my brother and

688
00:36:16,321 --> 00:36:21,281
Speaker 3: sister came to my sentencing. My sister freaked out crying,

689
00:36:21,521 --> 00:36:23,321
Speaker 3: and I said, what are you crying for? This is

690
00:36:23,361 --> 00:36:25,881
Speaker 3: good news? And she said, how's it? Good news? You

691
00:36:25,961 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 3: got thirty one years? And I said, I can apply

692
00:36:28,601 --> 00:36:29,481
Speaker 3: to transfer home.

693
00:36:29,361 --> 00:36:32,561
Speaker 2: Any year because of its number and not the stand right,

694
00:36:32,761 --> 00:36:34,681
Speaker 2: so it could have been fifty years. But as long

695
00:36:34,721 --> 00:36:37,281
Speaker 2: as it's a number, and said a number, you have

696
00:36:37,401 --> 00:36:38,121
Speaker 2: that opportunity.

697
00:36:38,481 --> 00:36:39,201
Speaker 3: Okay, that's right.

698
00:36:39,281 --> 00:36:41,921
Speaker 1: I never ever knew that. Yeah. Wow.

699
00:36:43,161 --> 00:36:46,601
Speaker 3: But unfortunately for me, there's a very long story to

700
00:36:47,441 --> 00:36:51,761
Speaker 3: me trying to get home. I was knocked back, which

701
00:36:51,841 --> 00:36:55,841
Speaker 3: nobody could believe, and it took another like three three

702
00:36:55,921 --> 00:36:58,761
Speaker 3: years to get that decision turned around so I could

703
00:36:58,801 --> 00:36:59,161
Speaker 3: go home.

704
00:37:00,281 --> 00:37:01,841
Speaker 1: Can I ask? Can I ask? Do you know why

705
00:37:01,921 --> 00:37:02,641
Speaker 1: it was knocked back?

706
00:37:03,921 --> 00:37:10,121
Speaker 3: So one of the reasons was there would be public

707
00:37:10,241 --> 00:37:11,641
Speaker 3: outcry if I.

708
00:37:11,721 --> 00:37:14,081
Speaker 1: Was brought home from the Thailand from the people.

709
00:37:14,161 --> 00:37:18,561
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I'd been in trouble before, I was likely

710
00:37:18,681 --> 00:37:22,201
Speaker 3: to re offend when I got out, and the other

711
00:37:22,361 --> 00:37:27,601
Speaker 3: reason was w A, jails are not a dating service.

712
00:37:28,361 --> 00:37:31,641
Speaker 3: So in her mind she's thinking, Oh, I just want

713
00:37:31,681 --> 00:37:36,041
Speaker 3: to come home so I can visit my boyfriend in jail.

714
00:37:37,041 --> 00:37:37,521
Speaker 3: So you have.

715
00:37:39,081 --> 00:37:42,721
Speaker 1: Congenital congen what's the fucking word? Where you can actually

716
00:37:42,801 --> 00:37:46,441
Speaker 1: have sex because w A have those jails.

717
00:37:46,481 --> 00:37:48,481
Speaker 2: But I know in the act you can actually have

718
00:37:49,241 --> 00:37:51,481
Speaker 2: Well maybe not right now, but the used to be

719
00:37:51,561 --> 00:37:54,201
Speaker 2: able to actually go to certain jails where you can

720
00:37:54,281 --> 00:37:56,481
Speaker 2: have visits at a certain stage where you could actually

721
00:37:56,521 --> 00:37:58,321
Speaker 2: have a room with your partner.

722
00:37:59,441 --> 00:38:00,161
Speaker 1: No, not here.

723
00:38:00,321 --> 00:38:05,641
Speaker 3: These were visits once a month into prison. So we'd

724
00:38:05,681 --> 00:38:07,961
Speaker 3: all get loaded onto a van, go over to the

725
00:38:08,041 --> 00:38:11,481
Speaker 3: men's prison, have a two hour visit once a month, right, Okay,

726
00:38:12,481 --> 00:38:14,761
Speaker 3: But I mean obviously I wanted to see him, but

727
00:38:14,841 --> 00:38:17,001
Speaker 3: that wasn't my reason for wanting to go home. I

728
00:38:17,121 --> 00:38:18,801
Speaker 3: want to get out of this ship, pick. I want

729
00:38:18,841 --> 00:38:20,961
Speaker 3: to go home, like where it's normal.

730
00:38:22,241 --> 00:38:22,401
Speaker 1: You know.

731
00:38:22,841 --> 00:38:24,841
Speaker 3: That was my reason for wanting to go home.

732
00:38:26,401 --> 00:38:27,841
Speaker 1: That's yeah.

733
00:38:28,001 --> 00:38:32,721
Speaker 3: I look, it was hard, you know, because I was

734
00:38:32,801 --> 00:38:37,361
Speaker 3: watching other foreigners that'd apply. May they gone in six months?

735
00:38:38,441 --> 00:38:42,641
Speaker 3: You know. The American the Americans were amazing, hey, Like

736
00:38:42,841 --> 00:38:45,761
Speaker 3: they really took care of their people. They were gone

737
00:38:46,041 --> 00:38:51,361
Speaker 3: within six months, very fast. But yeah, me three and

738
00:38:51,401 --> 00:38:52,001
Speaker 3: a half years.

739
00:38:52,321 --> 00:38:53,761
Speaker 1: Did anything ever come of that ounce?

740
00:38:54,241 --> 00:38:56,481
Speaker 2: No, because I mean, let's be honest, you would have

741
00:38:56,561 --> 00:38:58,801
Speaker 2: been basically, you wouldn't have gotten a number.

742
00:38:58,801 --> 00:39:01,121
Speaker 1: You would have been life or death if that had

743
00:39:01,161 --> 00:39:01,441
Speaker 1: come up.

744
00:39:01,521 --> 00:39:06,241
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, I'd say life. So what happened was

745
00:39:06,641 --> 00:39:10,961
Speaker 3: we realized after a few days that everything from my

746
00:39:11,081 --> 00:39:14,281
Speaker 3: apartment had been taken to the police station. Everything was

747
00:39:14,321 --> 00:39:17,321
Speaker 3: there in a room. So I said to my cole

748
00:39:17,361 --> 00:39:19,561
Speaker 3: friend or, I said, look, when the right cops are on,

749
00:39:20,521 --> 00:39:22,961
Speaker 3: I'll ask if we can get a change of clothes

750
00:39:23,081 --> 00:39:27,241
Speaker 3: and some toilet trees. You just strake the cop and

751
00:39:27,361 --> 00:39:31,321
Speaker 3: I'll get the gear out of the speaker. Well, when

752
00:39:31,401 --> 00:39:35,041
Speaker 3: we went in there, the speaker was gone, and I

753
00:39:35,161 --> 00:39:37,641
Speaker 3: was like, no, where is it.

754
00:39:40,121 --> 00:39:41,001
Speaker 2: Yeah, so.

755
00:39:42,961 --> 00:39:45,841
Speaker 3: Mate, when I was in Thailand in jail, I was

756
00:39:46,001 --> 00:39:48,481
Speaker 3: worried about that speaker coming back to bite me in

757
00:39:48,561 --> 00:39:50,601
Speaker 3: the ass every day, I bet.

758
00:39:51,801 --> 00:39:52,001
Speaker 2: Yeah.

759
00:39:52,361 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 3: So it was about I'd been in there a few

760
00:39:55,561 --> 00:39:58,081
Speaker 3: years at this time, and I'd been sentenced and I

761
00:39:58,201 --> 00:40:00,881
Speaker 3: was told I had to go to court. I was

762
00:40:01,081 --> 00:40:04,761
Speaker 3: freaking out. I thought it'll be the gear. They found

763
00:40:04,801 --> 00:40:07,201
Speaker 3: the gear they're going to charge me because I've already

764
00:40:07,281 --> 00:40:10,721
Speaker 3: been sentenced. But what it was, I've been called back

765
00:40:10,761 --> 00:40:15,961
Speaker 3: to court because of Bob's appeal, because he got his

766
00:40:16,201 --> 00:40:19,241
Speaker 3: life sentence brought down to a number. They thought my

767
00:40:19,481 --> 00:40:22,441
Speaker 3: thirty one years was too excessive, so they brought it

768
00:40:22,521 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 3: down to twenty seven years. Yeah yeah, happy days, which

769
00:40:30,081 --> 00:40:31,081
Speaker 3: didn't mean shit.

770
00:40:31,201 --> 00:40:33,881
Speaker 1: I was just about to say, that's a consolation prize

771
00:40:33,961 --> 00:40:37,241
Speaker 1: right there. Oh no good, here's another little slap to

772
00:40:37,321 --> 00:40:38,041
Speaker 1: fuck with your head.

773
00:40:38,041 --> 00:40:41,121
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I believe it when.

774
00:40:41,121 --> 00:40:44,681
Speaker 2: When you talk about people being caught in Thailand. I

775
00:40:44,721 --> 00:40:46,281
Speaker 2: mean we've seen over.

776
00:40:46,161 --> 00:40:50,401
Speaker 1: The years Malaysia, Thailand, Bali and we've lost many a

777
00:40:50,481 --> 00:40:55,241
Speaker 1: person's lives due to the laws. Yeah, how does it again?

778
00:40:55,321 --> 00:40:57,921
Speaker 2: I mean I've spoken to blokes that have been in

779
00:40:58,121 --> 00:41:03,601
Speaker 2: men's jails over there, and because of their lengthy sentences,

780
00:41:04,321 --> 00:41:07,641
Speaker 2: they automatic we have to have their bracelet ankle bracelet

781
00:41:07,721 --> 00:41:10,481
Speaker 2: with a steel or ball or whatever you want to be,

782
00:41:10,601 --> 00:41:12,521
Speaker 2: basically a ball and chain attached to them, and that's

783
00:41:12,801 --> 00:41:16,361
Speaker 2: they carry that everywhere because of is it a life

784
00:41:16,641 --> 00:41:19,641
Speaker 2: or is it that they're looking at serious numbers?

785
00:41:21,241 --> 00:41:23,721
Speaker 3: No, So that's when you're on remand that is on

786
00:41:23,881 --> 00:41:29,081
Speaker 3: remand right, okay, well there you go, yeah and there yeah,

787
00:41:29,521 --> 00:41:32,761
Speaker 3: I mean, and thankfully the women didn't have that, you know,

788
00:41:32,961 --> 00:41:35,521
Speaker 3: otherwise I would have been in leg lines for three years.

789
00:41:35,961 --> 00:41:39,121
Speaker 2: So the women prisoners over there don't. It's not something

790
00:41:39,201 --> 00:41:40,401
Speaker 2: that they introduced there.

791
00:41:41,241 --> 00:41:43,281
Speaker 3: No, it's only the men. I mean in the men's

792
00:41:43,321 --> 00:41:46,641
Speaker 3: prison they could smoke cigarettes. In the women's prison, you couldn't.

793
00:41:47,521 --> 00:41:50,681
Speaker 3: Really there was Yeah, it was really really bizarre.

794
00:41:51,521 --> 00:41:53,681
Speaker 1: Was there drugs in the prison as we are? Like,

795
00:41:53,761 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: I mean, let's be honest, we all know that there's

796
00:41:55,481 --> 00:41:58,121
Speaker 1: drugs in our prisons here. How was it over there?

797
00:41:58,481 --> 00:42:02,321
Speaker 3: I was actually very surprised when I got to the

798
00:42:02,441 --> 00:42:05,881
Speaker 3: jail to learn there was one woman out of the

799
00:42:05,961 --> 00:42:10,241
Speaker 3: six thousand prisoners that sold gear. One that was it.

800
00:42:10,601 --> 00:42:12,961
Speaker 3: And everybody knew, not everybody.

801
00:42:12,601 --> 00:42:15,041
Speaker 1: But enough enough to turn on her if they wanted

802
00:42:15,081 --> 00:42:16,161
Speaker 1: to and throw her under the bus.

803
00:42:16,281 --> 00:42:20,281
Speaker 3: Basically, yeah, but see it was she she was a

804
00:42:21,281 --> 00:42:24,601
Speaker 3: she was a foreigner. Yeah, so she wasn't selling to

805
00:42:24,721 --> 00:42:27,241
Speaker 3: tie people. She was selling to us foreigners.

806
00:42:27,841 --> 00:42:30,761
Speaker 1: And did anybody ever pick up that you girls were

807
00:42:31,961 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: high or on the gear?

808
00:42:34,441 --> 00:42:35,641
Speaker 3: No? No?

809
00:42:35,961 --> 00:42:36,201
Speaker 1: Wow?

810
00:42:36,441 --> 00:42:39,401
Speaker 3: And there weren't any urines in the seven and a

811
00:42:39,441 --> 00:42:43,441
Speaker 3: half years I was there, they urined a few people

812
00:42:43,521 --> 00:42:45,761
Speaker 3: one time. That was it.

813
00:42:46,601 --> 00:42:48,801
Speaker 1: And was that because why there was a death or

814
00:42:48,881 --> 00:42:50,921
Speaker 1: someone odeed or something bad happened.

815
00:42:51,001 --> 00:42:53,601
Speaker 3: No, I think they just sort of haven't done one

816
00:42:53,641 --> 00:42:54,921
Speaker 3: for a long time. We'd better do one.

817
00:42:56,761 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't give you no medical access for pissing the cup. Yeah,

818
00:43:02,561 --> 00:43:03,561
Speaker 1: go figure that way out.

819
00:43:05,041 --> 00:43:06,841
Speaker 2: I don't have anything for your illnesses, and nothing for

820
00:43:06,921 --> 00:43:09,201
Speaker 2: your bed sores, nothing for your cuts and wounds or

821
00:43:09,561 --> 00:43:11,801
Speaker 2: you know, your diarrhea, But just pissing a cup and

822
00:43:11,841 --> 00:43:12,481
Speaker 2: you get charged.

823
00:43:14,521 --> 00:43:15,481
Speaker 1: That's a priority.

824
00:43:16,241 --> 00:43:18,041
Speaker 3: Insane, totally insane.

825
00:43:18,441 --> 00:43:21,001
Speaker 1: I want to ask you, and I don't know that.

826
00:43:21,081 --> 00:43:22,841
Speaker 2: There must have been some terrible times here and you've

827
00:43:22,841 --> 00:43:25,681
Speaker 2: probably been asked this, but I want something from you

828
00:43:25,961 --> 00:43:28,521
Speaker 2: that you haven't spoken about anybody else, because this is

829
00:43:28,601 --> 00:43:31,921
Speaker 2: the clip and I don't fucking care about any other interview.

830
00:43:31,921 --> 00:43:34,721
Speaker 2: I care about our interview. I want to ask you

831
00:43:35,001 --> 00:43:37,881
Speaker 2: some serious, serious questions, and people.

832
00:43:37,801 --> 00:43:40,841
Speaker 1: Need to know how fucking bad is it for a

833
00:43:40,961 --> 00:43:43,481
Speaker 1: woman in a tire prison and what are some of

834
00:43:43,521 --> 00:43:46,121
Speaker 1: the things that you had to endure and witness.

835
00:43:46,961 --> 00:43:48,921
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm giving you something I haven't

836
00:43:48,961 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 3: spoken about because I really have been an open book yep,

837
00:43:52,601 --> 00:43:55,801
Speaker 3: like about everything. I don't think there's anything of held

838
00:43:55,801 --> 00:43:58,921
Speaker 3: back burnt. One of the most one of the most

839
00:43:59,041 --> 00:44:03,961
Speaker 3: devastating things I had to see was one of my

840
00:44:04,081 --> 00:44:08,521
Speaker 3: best friends dying of eighth When they came to pick

841
00:44:08,601 --> 00:44:11,841
Speaker 3: up her body, they put her in a bag, there

842
00:44:11,961 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 3: was a person on each end. They had a pickup truck,

843
00:44:16,601 --> 00:44:20,041
Speaker 3: so they've swung the body like three times to get

844
00:44:20,121 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 3: some momentum, and then just threw her into the back

845
00:44:23,441 --> 00:44:28,241
Speaker 3: of the car. Yeah, like they're throwing a sack of

846
00:44:28,281 --> 00:44:31,481
Speaker 3: potatoes in the car. But as I were bringing her

847
00:44:31,601 --> 00:44:37,241
Speaker 3: to the car, they dropped up. Yeah, that that sort

848
00:44:37,281 --> 00:44:41,401
Speaker 3: of ship Like, yeah, I'll never forget it. That was

849
00:44:41,601 --> 00:44:42,681
Speaker 3: really traumatizing.

850
00:44:42,761 --> 00:44:47,161
Speaker 2: That's a war crime style of just yeah, zero given

851
00:44:47,281 --> 00:44:51,241
Speaker 2: to the human there's just totally disgraceful.

852
00:44:51,761 --> 00:44:52,601
Speaker 3: Life's cheap there.

853
00:44:53,281 --> 00:44:54,281
Speaker 1: Oh we know that, don't we.

854
00:44:55,281 --> 00:44:57,921
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. I was sleeping next to a woman

855
00:44:58,001 --> 00:44:59,201
Speaker 3: once who was in for murder.

856
00:44:59,281 --> 00:45:01,281
Speaker 1: She's got seven years, isn't it crazy?

857
00:45:01,481 --> 00:45:06,401
Speaker 2: Like yeah, yeah, And this is the thing over there,

858
00:45:06,481 --> 00:45:08,401
Speaker 2: especially with the yaba and all that sort of stuff,

859
00:45:08,481 --> 00:45:11,721
Speaker 2: you know, like, yeah, it's something.

860
00:45:11,641 --> 00:45:13,961
Speaker 3: And that's what most people are in for Brent as well.

861
00:45:14,401 --> 00:45:17,321
Speaker 3: It's not Heroin anymore. It's yaba, that's right.

862
00:45:17,761 --> 00:45:20,641
Speaker 2: And can you just explain to our guests once again?

863
00:45:20,921 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: I'd rather you because you know it better than anybody else.

864
00:45:24,001 --> 00:45:26,681
Speaker 2: You've been there and amongst it. I know what it

865
00:45:26,801 --> 00:45:28,521
Speaker 2: does and I understand what it is.

866
00:45:28,601 --> 00:45:29,241
Speaker 1: Would you give there?

867
00:45:29,281 --> 00:45:33,881
Speaker 2: I guess that knowledge please of yaba? Many many would

868
00:45:33,921 --> 00:45:34,641
Speaker 2: never have heard of it.

869
00:45:35,161 --> 00:45:40,521
Speaker 3: Yeah, so entire yaba means crazy pill. I don't actually

870
00:45:40,721 --> 00:45:45,721
Speaker 3: like amphetamine, but I have tried it. There was one

871
00:45:45,841 --> 00:45:48,721
Speaker 3: instance when a lot of us were coming back from

872
00:45:48,801 --> 00:45:52,161
Speaker 3: court one day, well both there was a lot of us,

873
00:45:52,241 --> 00:45:55,041
Speaker 3: so we will put into two separate cages. Someone must

874
00:45:55,081 --> 00:45:57,401
Speaker 3: have told one of the women that you get searched

875
00:45:57,481 --> 00:46:01,041
Speaker 3: internally when you come to jail. Well, she's freaked out

876
00:46:01,321 --> 00:46:06,041
Speaker 3: and she's pulled out something from inside. All these bar

877
00:46:06,241 --> 00:46:09,881
Speaker 3: pills just scattered everywhere. There's probably like two hundred of them.

878
00:46:10,641 --> 00:46:14,681
Speaker 3: Everyone's scrambling for them. One tied chick on you. She said, Holly,

879
00:46:14,761 --> 00:46:16,401
Speaker 3: you want one? And I said, no, man, it's not

880
00:46:16,601 --> 00:46:18,801
Speaker 3: it's not my thing, you know, And then I thought,

881
00:46:18,881 --> 00:46:21,161
Speaker 3: you know what, fuck it? I said, yeah, give me one.

882
00:46:21,881 --> 00:46:24,121
Speaker 3: I had it. I wanted to see what it was like.

883
00:46:24,441 --> 00:46:27,281
Speaker 3: I actually wanted to compare it to what did you.

884
00:46:27,321 --> 00:46:28,841
Speaker 1: Eat it or smoke it? Because a lot of them

885
00:46:28,841 --> 00:46:30,321
Speaker 1: smoke it, don't they They break it down there.

886
00:46:30,401 --> 00:46:33,481
Speaker 3: No, it was a tiny, tiny little red pill the.

887
00:46:33,601 --> 00:46:36,001
Speaker 1: Red the outside blue blue as well, red and blue.

888
00:46:36,201 --> 00:46:41,281
Speaker 3: Yeah they probably are. Yeah, So, yeah, I had it.

889
00:46:42,041 --> 00:46:46,001
Speaker 3: It was the best an feta meine I've ever had.

890
00:46:46,561 --> 00:46:49,761
Speaker 3: It was just clean. There was no horrible come down

891
00:46:49,881 --> 00:46:54,481
Speaker 3: from it. Yeah, it was good. But it's not my thing.

892
00:46:54,801 --> 00:46:58,401
Speaker 2: But yeah, just I just had a vision, Okay, And

893
00:46:58,441 --> 00:47:01,041
Speaker 2: then don't take this out of context anybody. I've been

894
00:47:01,081 --> 00:47:04,641
Speaker 2: to the Philippines, okay, and I've been through the Philippines

895
00:47:04,681 --> 00:47:06,761
Speaker 2: and see in both sides of the dark side and

896
00:47:07,001 --> 00:47:07,721
Speaker 2: whatever else.

897
00:47:08,681 --> 00:47:12,241
Speaker 1: In the Philippines, their strip clubs, if you will, are

898
00:47:12,521 --> 00:47:15,041
Speaker 1: just packed with women and I mean nothing that we

899
00:47:15,161 --> 00:47:19,001
Speaker 1: see and this is not trying to talk out of

900
00:47:19,241 --> 00:47:21,121
Speaker 1: you know, derogatory and they're fucked.

901
00:47:22,001 --> 00:47:24,841
Speaker 2: Yeah, blokes go there and have these notes that are

902
00:47:24,841 --> 00:47:28,561
Speaker 2: probably worth thirty cents here, maybe fifty cents in austral

903
00:47:28,721 --> 00:47:31,601
Speaker 2: any bricks and they sit there and they throw them up.

904
00:47:31,681 --> 00:47:35,241
Speaker 2: As you're just saying about the y bar two hundred pills,

905
00:47:35,241 --> 00:47:38,121
Speaker 2: and I had this vision and these these dancers were

906
00:47:38,201 --> 00:47:42,361
Speaker 2: these women, these young women, they just absolutely stack on

907
00:47:42,481 --> 00:47:43,401
Speaker 2: top of each other.

908
00:47:43,441 --> 00:47:44,201
Speaker 1: To get that note.

909
00:47:45,081 --> 00:47:47,321
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell me it wasn't like that in that cell

910
00:47:47,761 --> 00:47:49,841
Speaker 2: at that stage and just turn it on an all

911
00:47:49,921 --> 00:47:53,361
Speaker 2: in malay wrestle fight, whatever, the one, whatever you want

912
00:47:53,401 --> 00:47:53,721
Speaker 2: to call it.

913
00:47:53,801 --> 00:47:54,881
Speaker 1: What what happened?

914
00:47:55,841 --> 00:47:59,801
Speaker 3: No, that that's exactly what it was like. Like a

915
00:47:59,881 --> 00:48:01,961
Speaker 3: lot of us didn't know what was going on because

916
00:48:01,961 --> 00:48:05,641
Speaker 3: we were both in separate like cages, but it didn't

917
00:48:05,681 --> 00:48:09,041
Speaker 3: take long for everyone to realize what's happening. Yeah it was.

918
00:48:09,521 --> 00:48:11,961
Speaker 3: It was crazy. Yeah, it was a full on scene.

919
00:48:12,721 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: Yeah it was. And what was it like then being

920
00:48:15,081 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: in the presence of everyone off chops on that drug.

921
00:48:18,681 --> 00:48:22,401
Speaker 3: Well, there's two sections in the prison. One section is

922
00:48:22,481 --> 00:48:26,681
Speaker 3: for people on reman the other section is for sentence prisoners.

923
00:48:27,601 --> 00:48:29,561
Speaker 3: Out of all of us that came back from court

924
00:48:29,641 --> 00:48:32,721
Speaker 3: that day, I was the only one in my section.

925
00:48:33,481 --> 00:48:40,321
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, yeah, So I was up all night

926
00:48:40,681 --> 00:48:45,041
Speaker 3: writing letters to people, and yeah, got a lot of

927
00:48:45,121 --> 00:48:46,281
Speaker 3: writing done that night. Bran.

928
00:48:46,441 --> 00:48:48,001
Speaker 2: I was just about to ask you, is this where

929
00:48:48,121 --> 00:48:51,681
Speaker 2: your memoirs started to become volumeinated because of the.

930
00:48:51,801 --> 00:48:52,721
Speaker 1: Amount of writing.

931
00:48:54,041 --> 00:48:59,041
Speaker 3: Oh my yeah, crazy, some of my.

932
00:48:59,121 --> 00:49:00,961
Speaker 1: Best writing come out of me that night. It was

933
00:49:01,081 --> 00:49:01,561
Speaker 1: just for enough.

934
00:49:03,561 --> 00:49:07,081
Speaker 3: No, actually, no that at night I was legit, just

935
00:49:07,241 --> 00:49:12,641
Speaker 3: running to family, were you yeah? Yeah, yeah, oh wow.

936
00:49:13,761 --> 00:49:20,121
Speaker 2: I I know that in jail things politics, tempers, flair,

937
00:49:21,081 --> 00:49:26,361
Speaker 2: and generally, I guess when you talk about most westernized jails.

938
00:49:26,641 --> 00:49:29,441
Speaker 1: Especially here, you know, you generally have a little bit

939
00:49:29,481 --> 00:49:32,521
Speaker 1: of space too. Sometimes walk away. Sometimes you have to

940
00:49:32,561 --> 00:49:36,041
Speaker 1: confront it and just deal with it. But where you were,

941
00:49:36,801 --> 00:49:38,601
Speaker 1: and I know that you've said this before.

942
00:49:39,521 --> 00:49:42,361
Speaker 2: You were saying that you would sleep side by side

943
00:49:42,361 --> 00:49:43,841
Speaker 2: and that if one person even.

944
00:49:43,721 --> 00:49:45,481
Speaker 1: Rolled, the whole line would have to roll.

945
00:49:46,521 --> 00:49:47,161
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to.

946
00:49:49,081 --> 00:49:52,081
Speaker 2: How would that many women live on top of each

947
00:49:52,161 --> 00:49:55,961
Speaker 2: You've got murderers in there, as you said, addicts, thieves, whatever,

948
00:49:56,321 --> 00:49:59,681
Speaker 2: you know, but people that are very much so on edge,

949
00:49:59,841 --> 00:50:02,801
Speaker 2: a lot of mental health issues. I would be saying,

950
00:50:04,721 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 2: was like life cheap in there? And did you happen

951
00:50:07,041 --> 00:50:11,361
Speaker 2: to see people stabbed murdered within that sort of.

952
00:50:11,441 --> 00:50:12,521
Speaker 1: Time frame that you were there?

953
00:50:13,281 --> 00:50:17,641
Speaker 3: No, nothing like that, you know, just fis fights And

954
00:50:18,201 --> 00:50:20,161
Speaker 3: you know, I was sitting next to her chick once

955
00:50:20,201 --> 00:50:22,001
Speaker 3: and she grabbed a pen and started stab and her

956
00:50:22,081 --> 00:50:27,801
Speaker 3: mate's leg, which was very strange. But yeah, just yeah,

957
00:50:27,801 --> 00:50:28,201
Speaker 3: shit like.

958
00:50:28,281 --> 00:50:31,641
Speaker 1: That because in the men's prisons, and it is a

959
00:50:31,761 --> 00:50:35,401
Speaker 1: fact you will be taken out. There's no ifs or buts,

960
00:50:35,641 --> 00:50:36,161
Speaker 1: you just try.

961
00:50:36,361 --> 00:50:39,441
Speaker 3: Look. Yeah, very different in the men's prisons because in

962
00:50:39,561 --> 00:50:41,361
Speaker 3: the men's prisons you got the gangs.

963
00:50:42,561 --> 00:50:45,161
Speaker 2: Because I want to understand from a woman's point of view,

964
00:50:45,481 --> 00:50:48,081
Speaker 2: how it actually works over there, because I have no idea,

965
00:50:48,201 --> 00:50:51,121
Speaker 2: and I don't think many of our listeners here would

966
00:50:51,161 --> 00:50:55,561
Speaker 2: truly understand. We would think that it was I mean

967
00:50:55,601 --> 00:50:58,881
Speaker 2: here in Australia, women's jails can be worse than the

968
00:50:58,921 --> 00:51:01,281
Speaker 2: men's at times. You know, shit kicks off in there

969
00:51:01,321 --> 00:51:06,041
Speaker 2: pretty badly, and as you know, it gets wild and

970
00:51:06,241 --> 00:51:09,921
Speaker 2: women are pretty crazy and hectic. Don't take it past

971
00:51:09,961 --> 00:51:11,761
Speaker 2: the men, but the women are bad.

972
00:51:12,401 --> 00:51:16,441
Speaker 3: It's hard to sort of describe. Yeah, there was violence

973
00:51:16,521 --> 00:51:23,041
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, but you get desensitized. You know,

974
00:51:26,001 --> 00:51:31,041
Speaker 3: things that are shocking at first aren't shocking anymore when

975
00:51:31,481 --> 00:51:34,361
Speaker 3: you see it over and over again. It just becomes

976
00:51:34,921 --> 00:51:37,241
Speaker 3: a normal way of life. I mean, the first time

977
00:51:37,321 --> 00:51:39,361
Speaker 3: I saw people bashed by the screws, and now I

978
00:51:39,441 --> 00:51:41,561
Speaker 3: was like, what the fuck is going on here?

979
00:51:42,401 --> 00:51:42,561
Speaker 1: You know?

980
00:51:43,361 --> 00:51:47,761
Speaker 3: That was probably the first bad one I saw. These

981
00:51:47,881 --> 00:51:51,801
Speaker 3: chicks made an escape attempt. So they're trying to scale

982
00:51:51,881 --> 00:51:54,881
Speaker 3: the wall and some of the trustee prisoners are pulling

983
00:51:54,921 --> 00:51:59,561
Speaker 3: them back down. There were no male prison officers, but

984
00:51:59,681 --> 00:52:02,681
Speaker 3: when something like this happened, they'd bring them, the men

985
00:52:03,681 --> 00:52:07,161
Speaker 3: screws over to the womenmans. They set all these chicks

986
00:52:07,201 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 3: in a circle, cufftom and just beat fuck out of them.

987
00:52:13,001 --> 00:52:14,161
Speaker 1: Male screws.

988
00:52:15,001 --> 00:52:19,321
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, both, and then made them crawl on their

989
00:52:19,361 --> 00:52:24,921
Speaker 3: hands and knees from one section like hundreds of meters away.

990
00:52:25,561 --> 00:52:28,161
Speaker 3: One chick was pregnant, she lost a baby. You could

991
00:52:28,201 --> 00:52:31,641
Speaker 3: see blood on the ground, like just shit like that.

992
00:52:32,001 --> 00:52:35,121
Speaker 3: It's all about You're not just having your freedom taken away.

993
00:52:35,721 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 3: You're being humiliated, You're degraded. There's no duty of care.

994
00:52:44,121 --> 00:52:44,281
Speaker 1: You know.

995
00:52:44,681 --> 00:52:49,641
Speaker 3: You put into an environment like that, and it's find

996
00:52:49,681 --> 00:52:50,201
Speaker 3: for yourself.

997
00:52:51,201 --> 00:52:55,001
Speaker 4: Can I ask you something, Holly, and please, I feel

998
00:52:55,041 --> 00:52:58,761
Speaker 4: that this is relevant because if I can put it,

999
00:53:00,001 --> 00:53:03,801
Speaker 4: the dominance of the screws within that jail and the

1000
00:53:03,881 --> 00:53:06,641
Speaker 4: system over there, you're not protected by any means.

1001
00:53:07,521 --> 00:53:10,321
Speaker 1: Human rights are taken from you. Basically, you treated as.

1002
00:53:11,681 --> 00:53:14,361
Speaker 2: Was there, you know a lot of women being raped

1003
00:53:14,721 --> 00:53:18,281
Speaker 2: by male screws, sexually abused and things like that.

1004
00:53:19,241 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 3: No, because there were no male screws. Okay, they only

1005
00:53:25,041 --> 00:53:27,441
Speaker 3: brought the men over from the men's prison when there

1006
00:53:27,561 --> 00:53:29,361
Speaker 3: was drama, so just.

1007
00:53:29,401 --> 00:53:33,641
Speaker 1: To reinforce, basically, to put the fear into you guys.

1008
00:53:34,161 --> 00:53:36,321
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was lucky that there weren't any men

1009
00:53:36,401 --> 00:53:38,681
Speaker 3: there because a lot of people would have been pregnant.

1010
00:53:39,001 --> 00:53:39,761
Speaker 1: Yes, this is why.

1011
00:53:40,001 --> 00:53:42,041
Speaker 3: That's probably the reason why they didn't do it.

1012
00:53:42,601 --> 00:53:44,521
Speaker 1: I don't know whether to say credit to them or not,

1013
00:53:44,681 --> 00:53:49,561
Speaker 1: but in one sense it's smart thinking because here in Australia.

1014
00:53:49,121 --> 00:53:51,401
Speaker 2: We both know that you know, screws fucking mates left,

1015
00:53:51,481 --> 00:53:53,561
Speaker 2: right and center. They're guilty of it all the time.

1016
00:53:53,721 --> 00:53:59,121
Speaker 3: You know. Oh, you know, I'd say it's a credit

1017
00:53:59,241 --> 00:54:02,081
Speaker 3: to them not to have them working there, I think. So.

1018
00:54:03,441 --> 00:54:05,801
Speaker 3: You know, you were allowed to keep your kid there

1019
00:54:05,881 --> 00:54:11,321
Speaker 3: up until the age of three, so you know, if

1020
00:54:11,481 --> 00:54:14,481
Speaker 3: women were, you know, to be raped and all that

1021
00:54:14,761 --> 00:54:18,201
Speaker 3: far out, there'd be that many kids and just not

1022
00:54:18,321 --> 00:54:20,161
Speaker 3: an original situation to have kids in.

1023
00:54:20,841 --> 00:54:21,961
Speaker 1: No, and not at all.

1024
00:54:24,001 --> 00:54:26,001
Speaker 3: But you know, the funny thing is, and people are

1025
00:54:26,001 --> 00:54:28,841
Speaker 3: a bit surprised when I say it. You know, the

1026
00:54:28,961 --> 00:54:32,761
Speaker 3: kids were probably better off in jail because a lot

1027
00:54:32,841 --> 00:54:36,521
Speaker 3: of the mums didn't have money, and for those prisoners

1028
00:54:36,561 --> 00:54:39,721
Speaker 3: that did, we would look after those kids. If they

1029
00:54:39,761 --> 00:54:43,161
Speaker 3: needed clothes, we'd buy it. If they needed food, milk,

1030
00:54:44,001 --> 00:54:45,401
Speaker 3: we bought it for them.

1031
00:54:47,161 --> 00:54:47,321
Speaker 1: You know.

1032
00:54:47,641 --> 00:54:50,081
Speaker 3: When these kids were three, they'd get you know, taken

1033
00:54:50,161 --> 00:54:53,161
Speaker 3: to an orphanage, and the orphanage would bring them in

1034
00:54:53,281 --> 00:54:56,041
Speaker 3: once a month to see their mums. And we knew

1035
00:54:56,081 --> 00:54:58,721
Speaker 3: who had money and who didn't, you know, so we'd

1036
00:54:58,761 --> 00:55:00,761
Speaker 3: buy stuff so they could eat with the kids, you know,

1037
00:55:02,681 --> 00:55:06,921
Speaker 3: So they'll probably better off in the to be honest, And.

1038
00:55:07,121 --> 00:55:09,961
Speaker 2: When you look at you, yeah, I was just about

1039
00:55:10,001 --> 00:55:14,561
Speaker 2: to say, and it's a community love, isn't it. I mean,

1040
00:55:15,081 --> 00:55:18,841
Speaker 2: obviously you'd be very well please correct me if I'm wrong,

1041
00:55:18,921 --> 00:55:21,121
Speaker 2: But sex offenders were kept separate.

1042
00:55:21,761 --> 00:55:25,641
Speaker 3: No, And to be totally honest with you, not that

1043
00:55:25,761 --> 00:55:27,921
Speaker 3: I know one hundred percent, but I don't think there

1044
00:55:27,921 --> 00:55:29,001
Speaker 3: would have been anyone.

1045
00:55:28,761 --> 00:55:31,601
Speaker 2: In there for that well, I mean other than foreigners,

1046
00:55:31,681 --> 00:55:34,601
Speaker 2: because we all know that that's something that has been

1047
00:55:34,681 --> 00:55:37,241
Speaker 2: massive over the years, with the scum foreigners going over

1048
00:55:37,321 --> 00:55:38,521
Speaker 2: there and committing these.

1049
00:55:39,681 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 3: But with the women now with the women. Ninety nine

1050
00:55:45,001 --> 00:55:47,361
Speaker 3: point nine percent of people that were in there, we're

1051
00:55:47,401 --> 00:55:51,561
Speaker 3: in there for drugs. That was it drugs, drugs or murder.

1052
00:55:52,201 --> 00:55:55,361
Speaker 2: So there predominantly is a lot of moralistic Well, yeah,

1053
00:55:55,401 --> 00:55:56,841
Speaker 2: they'd have to be. There's be a a lot a

1054
00:55:56,881 --> 00:56:02,121
Speaker 2: lot of sort of levels of I guess morals, because

1055
00:56:02,321 --> 00:56:04,441
Speaker 2: that right there just shows you know what I mean,

1056
00:56:04,841 --> 00:56:07,881
Speaker 2: the acceptance in the caliber of community of what is

1057
00:56:07,961 --> 00:56:09,001
Speaker 2: and what isn't tolerated.

1058
00:56:10,681 --> 00:56:13,041
Speaker 1: We see here in many other countries. It's just these

1059
00:56:14,881 --> 00:56:17,721
Speaker 1: fucking scum that you know, commit these crimes.

1060
00:56:17,841 --> 00:56:21,881
Speaker 2: So we as a country, except that we all know,

1061
00:56:21,961 --> 00:56:23,361
Speaker 2: I won't get down the rabbit hole of the whole

1062
00:56:23,361 --> 00:56:25,281
Speaker 2: political side of it. We know where it comes from

1063
00:56:25,321 --> 00:56:27,321
Speaker 2: and who's involved and all this sort of stuff without

1064
00:56:27,321 --> 00:56:29,361
Speaker 2: trafficking and child sex abuse.

1065
00:56:29,081 --> 00:56:32,761
Speaker 1: And so on. I think, from my point of view

1066
00:56:32,761 --> 00:56:34,081
Speaker 1: as a survivor.

1067
00:56:33,641 --> 00:56:37,441
Speaker 2: Hearing that it's not nice to hear anybody in jail, obviously,

1068
00:56:37,561 --> 00:56:43,081
Speaker 2: but how good, how good there's no pedophiles around these

1069
00:56:43,121 --> 00:56:46,561
Speaker 2: young children that are being raised in an environment which

1070
00:56:46,601 --> 00:56:50,441
Speaker 2: is already very very very traumatic for them. But you

1071
00:56:50,481 --> 00:56:53,361
Speaker 2: could be guaranteed if it was anywhere here or anywhere else,

1072
00:56:53,441 --> 00:56:55,561
Speaker 2: that'd be someone trying, you know what I mean, Like it's.

1073
00:56:56,321 --> 00:56:59,401
Speaker 1: That way, but that is the fact, that's reality of it.

1074
00:57:01,241 --> 00:57:03,561
Speaker 2: So on the lows, on the loads of the Thailand

1075
00:57:03,681 --> 00:57:06,721
Speaker 2: system and the way that they do have their jails

1076
00:57:06,761 --> 00:57:09,881
Speaker 2: and treat their inmates, there are some things that you've

1077
00:57:09,921 --> 00:57:12,361
Speaker 2: got to look at and so I guess, well, that's

1078
00:57:12,521 --> 00:57:16,481
Speaker 2: not so bad in what sense? Well, like I say,

1079
00:57:16,761 --> 00:57:19,241
Speaker 2: and you look at our own country and how bad

1080
00:57:19,321 --> 00:57:22,041
Speaker 2: it is here? Oh, I mean, yeah, it's just oh yeah,

1081
00:57:22,081 --> 00:57:22,801
Speaker 2: it's disgusting.

1082
00:57:23,361 --> 00:57:27,561
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, definitely, yeah, no doubt food.

1083
00:57:27,361 --> 00:57:31,921
Speaker 2: Wise, and it's obviously probably gonna be something that I've

1084
00:57:31,961 --> 00:57:37,121
Speaker 2: got You're funny. I don't know whether you call it food,

1085
00:57:37,241 --> 00:57:39,481
Speaker 2: but whatever it was, it's kept you to this day

1086
00:57:39,521 --> 00:57:42,321
Speaker 2: of yard to be here, and somehow you got through it.

1087
00:57:42,841 --> 00:57:45,321
Speaker 2: What would be on the barrow, so to speak, you know,

1088
00:57:45,441 --> 00:57:48,241
Speaker 2: what would be Obviously rice was a staple part of.

1089
00:57:48,241 --> 00:57:48,841
Speaker 1: The diet, was it.

1090
00:57:50,401 --> 00:57:53,601
Speaker 3: Yeah, So if you had money, you could buy food

1091
00:57:53,761 --> 00:57:54,841
Speaker 3: at the shop, but.

1092
00:57:54,881 --> 00:57:56,801
Speaker 1: Where would you keep it? How would you keep your

1093
00:57:56,881 --> 00:57:57,481
Speaker 1: things safe?

1094
00:57:58,321 --> 00:58:02,161
Speaker 3: Well, this is a thing. You you had a locker,

1095
00:58:04,281 --> 00:58:05,281
Speaker 3: a very small one.

1096
00:58:05,961 --> 00:58:06,161
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1097
00:58:08,721 --> 00:58:11,361
Speaker 3: Then they brought in a thing about okay, if your

1098
00:58:11,481 --> 00:58:14,401
Speaker 3: sentence is twenty years or higher. You can get a

1099
00:58:14,441 --> 00:58:19,121
Speaker 3: bigger locker. Yeah, it was crazy, man.

1100
00:58:19,641 --> 00:58:23,241
Speaker 2: Was it increments for ten years and you've got another inch, bigger, another.

1101
00:58:24,241 --> 00:58:27,081
Speaker 1: Insane and that's going to have your clothes in it

1102
00:58:27,121 --> 00:58:27,801
Speaker 1: as well, does it?

1103
00:58:28,801 --> 00:58:33,241
Speaker 3: Well, everything toiletries, the whole lot, the whole lot. But

1104
00:58:34,721 --> 00:58:38,561
Speaker 3: we the couple of women that were like my family,

1105
00:58:38,641 --> 00:58:43,361
Speaker 3: who we stayed together. Yeah, we knew a lot of

1106
00:58:43,441 --> 00:58:47,641
Speaker 3: the trustees in certain areas, so we'd just say, all right,

1107
00:58:47,721 --> 00:58:50,481
Speaker 3: we want four lockers and we just pay her, yeah

1108
00:58:50,881 --> 00:58:51,841
Speaker 3: to keep these lockers.

1109
00:58:52,201 --> 00:58:54,641
Speaker 1: And were they tie or the trustees or were there's

1110
00:58:54,641 --> 00:58:56,721
Speaker 1: the mixed cultural No.

1111
00:58:57,121 --> 00:59:00,921
Speaker 3: There was two foreigners when I first got there. One

1112
00:59:01,001 --> 00:59:06,521
Speaker 3: of them died and there was one. Yeah, but most tie. Yeah.

1113
00:59:06,961 --> 00:59:09,841
Speaker 3: So you know you can get anything for a price, yes,

1114
00:59:09,961 --> 00:59:13,601
Speaker 3: of course, you know, but for a lot of people.

1115
00:59:14,001 --> 00:59:16,601
Speaker 3: A lot of people don't have money there. So when

1116
00:59:16,641 --> 00:59:19,881
Speaker 3: I first got there, the government food, oh my god,

1117
00:59:20,481 --> 00:59:23,561
Speaker 3: had stones in it, had bits of steel o in it.

1118
00:59:25,441 --> 00:59:26,161
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

1119
00:59:26,561 --> 00:59:29,441
Speaker 3: I didn't have to eat it, thank God, because I

1120
00:59:29,521 --> 00:59:36,481
Speaker 3: had money. But about five years into my sentence, it

1121
00:59:36,601 --> 00:59:40,241
Speaker 3: all changed. I don't know why, but the food got better.

1122
00:59:41,161 --> 00:59:46,281
Speaker 3: So if whatever was getting served that day was better

1123
00:59:46,361 --> 00:59:48,241
Speaker 3: than what you could get at the shop. You'd eat

1124
00:59:48,281 --> 00:59:50,361
Speaker 3: it because it was actually decent. There was nothing wrong

1125
00:59:50,401 --> 00:59:51,801
Speaker 3: with it. The government food.

1126
00:59:52,001 --> 00:59:54,761
Speaker 2: Would they use sort of proteins like fish and stuff

1127
00:59:54,881 --> 00:59:58,801
Speaker 2: like that or was it sort of just shit slop porker?

1128
00:59:58,921 --> 01:00:07,081
Speaker 3: Oh, just shit. Yeah. You know, when I first got

1129
01:00:07,161 --> 01:00:10,201
Speaker 3: in there, I had diarrhea for the first six months.

1130
01:00:11,001 --> 01:00:13,481
Speaker 3: And in that section I was in, there was two

1131
01:00:13,561 --> 01:00:18,161
Speaker 3: thousand women in the yard. There was ten toilets, so

1132
01:00:18,921 --> 01:00:23,321
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, so again it's who you know. You know,

1133
01:00:24,161 --> 01:00:27,761
Speaker 3: the chick that I knew, she knew the the prisoner

1134
01:00:27,961 --> 01:00:30,921
Speaker 3: that took care of that line. So she was standing

1135
01:00:30,961 --> 01:00:32,441
Speaker 3: at the line to tell you when you can go

1136
01:00:32,641 --> 01:00:33,241
Speaker 3: when you can't.

1137
01:00:33,841 --> 01:00:36,121
Speaker 2: So it was there like one sort of toilet or

1138
01:00:36,201 --> 01:00:39,081
Speaker 2: toilet area that was always spotlessly cleaned for people who

1139
01:00:39,201 --> 01:00:41,641
Speaker 2: had money, that someone would look after in that sense,

1140
01:00:43,201 --> 01:00:45,561
Speaker 2: a priority thing that you would like.

1141
01:00:45,761 --> 01:00:49,961
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So because I was good friends with

1142
01:00:50,321 --> 01:00:52,921
Speaker 3: this chick's friend, I just go to the front of

1143
01:00:52,961 --> 01:00:55,961
Speaker 3: the line every time, you know, I like to do this.

1144
01:00:56,481 --> 01:01:00,281
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's yeah, a little bit of a standout, wouldn't it.

1145
01:01:01,321 --> 01:01:04,161
Speaker 3: One hundred? But it's like you've got to do what

1146
01:01:04,241 --> 01:01:06,601
Speaker 3: you got to do. Yeah, and if someone's got a

1147
01:01:06,641 --> 01:01:09,441
Speaker 3: problem with it, well come and tell me and we'll

1148
01:01:09,441 --> 01:01:10,041
Speaker 3: work it out.

1149
01:01:11,321 --> 01:01:11,481
Speaker 2: You know.

1150
01:01:13,761 --> 01:01:16,921
Speaker 3: But as you know, that's how it is. It is

1151
01:01:17,001 --> 01:01:18,481
Speaker 3: how I'm not going to I'm not going to be

1152
01:01:18,521 --> 01:01:20,601
Speaker 3: walked over or taken advantage. I can tell you that

1153
01:01:20,761 --> 01:01:23,441
Speaker 3: right now. And people learn that pretty quick from me.

1154
01:01:23,921 --> 01:01:26,841
Speaker 1: Did you learn to speak ty? Yeah?

1155
01:01:26,921 --> 01:01:29,321
Speaker 3: I had to, man, I had to. Yeah.

1156
01:01:31,601 --> 01:01:31,841
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1157
01:01:31,881 --> 01:01:36,281
Speaker 3: Look, because I am a very independent person, I hated

1158
01:01:36,361 --> 01:01:39,761
Speaker 3: having to ask people to translate for me. I hated it. Yeah,

1159
01:01:40,761 --> 01:01:43,361
Speaker 3: I had no interest of wanting to learn it within

1160
01:01:43,441 --> 01:01:46,881
Speaker 3: the first year. But then I was like, well, may

1161
01:01:47,081 --> 01:01:48,401
Speaker 3: I've got to I'm going to be here for a

1162
01:01:48,481 --> 01:01:50,321
Speaker 3: long time. I've got to be able to speak to people.

1163
01:01:51,321 --> 01:01:54,441
Speaker 3: And yeah, I started learning. I could understand a lot

1164
01:01:54,881 --> 01:01:58,081
Speaker 3: very early on, but I couldn't articulate what I wanted

1165
01:01:58,121 --> 01:02:01,041
Speaker 3: to get across. It's a it's a hard language to learn.

1166
01:02:01,681 --> 01:02:05,361
Speaker 2: It is once you click with it, it's actually very handy,

1167
01:02:05,441 --> 01:02:07,841
Speaker 2: especially when people don't know that you think they think

1168
01:02:07,921 --> 01:02:09,321
Speaker 2: you don't know what's being said.

1169
01:02:10,281 --> 01:02:11,001
Speaker 1: Do you know what I do?

1170
01:02:11,201 --> 01:02:14,681
Speaker 3: Sometimes when I go and get my nails done, I

1171
01:02:14,801 --> 01:02:18,161
Speaker 3: go to a place that has ties there, and I

1172
01:02:18,321 --> 01:02:20,641
Speaker 3: listen to their conversations.

1173
01:02:20,401 --> 01:02:23,361
Speaker 2: Converse in ties, and I'll be talking about each other's

1174
01:02:23,401 --> 01:02:26,601
Speaker 2: dirty feet, nails, and how fat and ugly or skinny

1175
01:02:26,721 --> 01:02:27,081
Speaker 2: or whatever.

1176
01:02:29,561 --> 01:02:32,441
Speaker 3: Oh it's hilarious, it's so funny.

1177
01:02:33,321 --> 01:02:37,321
Speaker 2: Oh well, and you obviously could quite comfortably, you know,

1178
01:02:37,521 --> 01:02:40,281
Speaker 2: talk that now if you needed to, I mean, wouldn't

1179
01:02:40,281 --> 01:02:41,441
Speaker 2: be an issue or you would.

1180
01:02:42,081 --> 01:02:46,081
Speaker 3: Look, I've forgotten a lot of it. I was at

1181
01:02:47,481 --> 01:02:52,001
Speaker 3: a book launch in Sydney not long ago, and I

1182
01:02:52,081 --> 01:02:54,561
Speaker 3: didn't realize until the end when people were coming up

1183
01:02:54,601 --> 01:02:57,081
Speaker 3: to buy the books. This guy started talking to me

1184
01:02:57,161 --> 01:03:00,321
Speaker 3: in time and it was just yeah, just started. It

1185
01:03:00,441 --> 01:03:00,921
Speaker 3: came back