WEBVTT - Paul Murray Live | 7 October 0:00:02.610 --> 0:00:04.830 This is Paul Murray Live. 0:00:06.950 --> 0:00:09.770 Thank you, Shari, and good evening, Australia. Caleb Bond in 0:00:09.830 --> 0:00:12.190 for Paul this week. Here's what's coming up. It is, 0:00:12.230 --> 0:00:15.650 of course, October 7, a day of anti-Jewish terrorism three 0:00:15.710 --> 0:00:18.910 years ago, and yet today we have people gathering not 0:00:18.970 --> 0:00:22.570 to mourn those killed in the attack, but to condemn Israel. 0:00:22.910 --> 0:00:24.840 Linda Scott and Sean Bell will join me for the 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.960 panel tonight. Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson says the Coalition is 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.220 preparing to fight the next election... on the economy and 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.440 our friend in the UK, Tom Slater, will give us 0:00:33.540 --> 0:00:37.080 all the latest on former Prince Andrew's fresh legal battle. 0:00:37.220 --> 0:00:40.250 And just a reminder, the next Paul Murray Live Our 0:00:40.310 --> 0:00:43.030 Town is going to be in Karratha in Western Australia 0:00:43.130 --> 0:00:46.670 on Sunday 25 October. If you want tickets, you want 0:00:46.690 --> 0:00:49.330 to be in the audience, meet Paul, then email your 0:00:49.430 --> 0:00:52.340 first and last name to ourtownatnews24. 0:00:51.070 --> 0:00:59.570 Com. au. That is ourtownatnews24. com. I know Paul would like to 0:00:59.630 --> 0:01:00.210 see you there. 0:01:00.850 --> 0:01:04.180 Now, this decision by the High Court today on coal mines, 0:01:05.020 --> 0:01:08.380 it is just unbelievable. I can't believe we have reached 0:01:08.420 --> 0:01:10.720 a point in this country where a court can say, 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:14.880 effectively create law, case law, that says if you dig 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:18.619 up coal in New South Wales and then send it overseas, 0:01:19.100 --> 0:01:22.340 you are somehow responsible for for what people do with 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.120 it overseas. The decision of the High Court, if you 0:01:26.220 --> 0:01:30.010 manage to miss this story today, is that the impact 0:01:30.050 --> 0:01:34.569 of climate change caused by emissions from exported coal dug 0:01:34.650 --> 0:01:37.910 up in New South Wales has to be considered during 0:01:37.950 --> 0:01:41.020 planning applications. This was part of a case to stop 0:01:41.030 --> 0:01:44.040 the expansion of the Mount Pleasant coal mine in New 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.740 South Wales, and the court found that the New South 0:01:46.780 --> 0:01:52.110 Wales Independent Planning Commission... which allowed the mine's expansion in 2022, 0:01:52.110 --> 0:01:57.920 was required to impose conditions to mitigate downstream emissions generated 0:01:57.980 --> 0:02:01.480 by Australian coal when it's exported and used overseas. 0:02:01.780 --> 0:02:03.060 That is, the. 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.220 Mining company or the owner of the mine or the 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:08.260 energy company, as it is in this case, has to 0:02:08.340 --> 0:02:12.859 prevent emissions eventually happening on the other side of the world. 0:02:13.790 --> 0:02:16.570 Now, how are you actually meant to do that? 0:02:16.590 --> 0:02:19.510 I mean, how does the mob that digs the coal 0:02:19.610 --> 0:02:23.310 out of the ground prevent emissions going into the atmosphere 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.780 when someone eventually uses that coal for its intended purpose? 0:02:27.900 --> 0:02:31.000 And that is, of course, to burn it for energy. Because, 0:02:31.020 --> 0:02:33.500 of course, it's not the mob digging it up that's 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.180 going to be using it when it gets burnt if 0:02:36.260 --> 0:02:40.820 it's exported to someone else. So, presumably, if emissions created 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:44.489 by a coal mine in New South Wales or more accurately, 0:02:44.850 --> 0:02:48.050 the potential emissions created by the coal dug out of 0:02:48.090 --> 0:02:51.720 a mine in New South Wales, are now the responsibility 0:02:51.850 --> 0:02:55.320 of the miner, then what can they do to mitigate 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.600 those emissions except not dig it out of the ground? 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:02.160 I mean, this looks, for all the world. 0:03:02.620 --> 0:03:05.710 Like a handbrake on coal mining in New South Wales. 0:03:06.310 --> 0:03:08.750 why would you start a coal mine in New South Wales? 0:03:09.130 --> 0:03:11.950 Why would you try to expand a coal mine in 0:03:11.990 --> 0:03:16.510 New South Wales when you are now liable, responsible for 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:19.260 what happens when that coal is burnt on the other 0:03:19.300 --> 0:03:20.160 side of the world? 0:03:20.180 --> 0:03:22.340 I mean, you will now. 0:03:22.180 --> 0:03:26.940 Have to prove that you can somehow mitigate that. Well, 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.720 how can you prove that you can mitigate it? I 0:03:30.780 --> 0:03:35.950 have absolutely no doubt that this will prevent coal mining... 0:03:36.070 --> 0:03:39.180 in New South Wales. And what does the federal government 0:03:39.190 --> 0:03:41.880 have to say about it? Well, it's just all down 0:03:41.900 --> 0:03:42.720 to New South Wales. 0:03:44.060 --> 0:03:46.680 Now, this seems to be a novel decision from the 0:03:46.740 --> 0:03:48.260 High Court and it will take a little bit of 0:03:48.300 --> 0:03:51.600 time to understand its implications. Obviously, the New South Wales 0:03:51.620 --> 0:03:54.680 government will consider how they respond to this, but there's 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.640 no change that's required to the federal environmental law because 0:03:57.820 --> 0:04:01.300 our laws don't require these kind of considerations at the 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:03.700 moment anyway. It's obviously, you know, the court has found 0:04:03.740 --> 0:04:05.740 to be a different situation in New South Wales and 0:04:06.180 --> 0:04:07.840 it'll now be for the New South Wales government to 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:09.240 determine how they respond to that. 0:04:10.300 --> 0:04:14.460 Okay, sure. It's New South Wales law. But what do 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:15.290 you think about it? 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.610 I mean, I know the PM has previously said he 0:04:18.670 --> 0:04:20.210 supports expanding the mine. 0:04:21.230 --> 0:04:22.490 Why can't you say that today? 0:04:23.430 --> 0:04:26.590 Say that this is a ridiculous decision and that something 0:04:26.630 --> 0:04:30.969 should be done about it. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean 0:04:31.029 --> 0:04:34.020 that All mining will stop overnight because, of course, there 0:04:34.060 --> 0:04:37.440 are mines currently operating and doing their thing. But it 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:39.980 makes the job of opening a new mine or expanding 0:04:40.020 --> 0:04:44.290 a mine so much harder. So the way things currently stand, 0:04:44.830 --> 0:04:48.030 emissions are accounted for in different ways depending on where 0:04:48.070 --> 0:04:51.250 they come from. And so in this case, the coal 0:04:51.270 --> 0:04:53.590 would be dug up in New South Wales and then 0:04:53.750 --> 0:04:57.960 exported and burnt somewhere else. And so those emissions, those 0:04:58.020 --> 0:04:59.000 greenhouse emissions. 0:04:59.540 --> 0:04:59.840 for. 0:04:59.750 --> 0:05:04.120 Australia accounted as what they call scope three emissions. So 0:05:04.140 --> 0:05:07.120 there's scope one, scope two, scope three. And that is 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:12.060 not included in Australia's greenhouse gas input because of course 0:05:12.700 --> 0:05:15.120 we're not burning it here. We're not the ones actually 0:05:15.220 --> 0:05:20.320 creating the emissions. And what locals in Musselbrook, which is 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.520 near the mine, have successfully argued in the High Court 0:05:24.020 --> 0:05:28.870 is that those downstream emissions happening in another country will 0:05:28.950 --> 0:05:33.010 also cause climate change harm in Australia in the area 0:05:33.050 --> 0:05:36.049 where the mine is. And so that should be considered 0:05:36.570 --> 0:05:40.080 as part of the planning process. So even though we 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:43.820 didn't cause the emissions, we have to take responsibility for 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:47.220 the fact, according to the High Court, that if emissions 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:51.990 occur elsewhere, it will still affect people in Australia. Now, 0:05:52.430 --> 0:05:55.270 for the sake of the argument, let's say that's true. 0:05:55.790 --> 0:05:58.880 Let's say that burning coal in another country is going 0:05:58.900 --> 0:06:01.580 to have a negative effect on the climate in Australia. 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:06.099 Even if that's the case, what real benefit are we 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.240 giving to the world and to us by not allowing 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.120 that coal to be mined in Australia? I mean, do 0:06:12.170 --> 0:06:14.770 you really think that another country that wants to get 0:06:14.830 --> 0:06:17.230 its hands on coal, because, of course, coal is still 0:06:17.270 --> 0:06:20.210 a cheap and reliable form of energy, if another country 0:06:20.250 --> 0:06:22.910 wants to get its hands on coal, that they're not 0:06:22.970 --> 0:06:23.860 going to find it? 0:06:23.870 --> 0:06:25.910 I mean, they're not going to say, oh, well. 0:06:26.550 --> 0:06:29.369 Courts in Australia said that this couldn't go ahead, therefore we're. 0:06:29.250 --> 0:06:30.570 Not going to burn coal anymore. 0:06:31.529 --> 0:06:33.750 They're going to get it from somewhere else. They still 0:06:33.810 --> 0:06:37.670 need that coal. They still need the energy. They need cheap, 0:06:38.050 --> 0:06:40.910 reliable energy, and they can get it from coal. And 0:06:40.950 --> 0:06:43.710 so they will get the coal from somewhere else. And 0:06:43.770 --> 0:06:46.640 so the effect on the world climate will be the same. 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:49.900 They're still going to burn the coal, but they'll just 0:06:49.940 --> 0:06:52.260 get it from somewhere else. And because they get it 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.400 from somewhere else, we in Australia, in this case New 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:56.039 South Wales. 0:06:56.779 --> 0:06:57.300 miss out. 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.620 On the royalties and the revenue. You don't get the 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.360 taxes that come from that mine. You don't get the 0:07:02.420 --> 0:07:04.020 employment that comes from that mine. 0:07:04.060 --> 0:07:05.279 You don't get the mining. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.760 Royalties that flow into the state coffers. And this is 0:07:08.820 --> 0:07:12.290 significant money, of course, that is spent on states, by states, sorry, 0:07:12.350 --> 0:07:15.830 on essential services like roads and health care and schools, 0:07:15.970 --> 0:07:19.550 things like that. All of that will be lost because 0:07:19.570 --> 0:07:21.670 we want to be so virtuous in this country that 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.320 that we're not contributing to the world's emissions, even though 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.870 those emissions will happen anyway, because that coal will simply 0:07:28.930 --> 0:07:30.710 be bought from somewhere else. 0:07:31.890 --> 0:07:34.790 We in little old Australia are deluding. 0:07:34.190 --> 0:07:37.490 Ourselves into thinking that we can change the climate of 0:07:37.510 --> 0:07:41.080 the world if we just keep our natural resources, our coal, 0:07:41.180 --> 0:07:41.760 in the ground. 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.400 Well, I hate to break it to you, but it 0:07:44.460 --> 0:07:46.680 won't make four-fifths a bugger-all difference. 0:07:47.340 --> 0:07:49.500 I also wonder as well, if we're making this admission 0:07:50.300 --> 0:07:54.000 that we are responsible for emissions that happen on the 0:07:54.020 --> 0:07:56.860 other side of the world because we dug the coal 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:00.080 out of the ground. What's to stop other countries coming 0:08:00.230 --> 0:08:02.750 after us and saying, well, you've caused climate change in 0:08:02.810 --> 0:08:07.130 our country. We want reparations or something for it. Seems 0:08:07.150 --> 0:08:10.110 like a logical next step. And I would also say 0:08:10.130 --> 0:08:13.810 to the Greenies celebrating this decision today, I understand that 0:08:13.830 --> 0:08:16.630 you're probably happy that coal should be kept in the 0:08:16.670 --> 0:08:18.830 ground because it means it won't be burnt because you 0:08:18.850 --> 0:08:21.320 have an opposition to coal. But what about all the 0:08:21.380 --> 0:08:24.700 countries that need that coal? What about the countries that 0:08:24.780 --> 0:08:28.940 need cheap energy, reliable energy, to pull people out of poverty? 0:08:29.690 --> 0:08:33.350 Look at the huge advancements in countries like China and 0:08:33.410 --> 0:08:37.250 India in recent decades, building up industry, pulling people out 0:08:37.270 --> 0:08:37.910 of poverty. 0:08:38.510 --> 0:08:41.130 And what have they used to do that? Coal. 0:08:41.770 --> 0:08:45.130 With coal, they've been able to build reliable energy and 0:08:45.309 --> 0:08:48.610 industry and wealth. that has made the quality of life 0:08:48.650 --> 0:08:52.650 for people in poor countries so much better. Now, yes, 0:08:52.690 --> 0:08:55.410 that might mean more emissions, and it might mean that 0:08:55.429 --> 0:08:58.070 their air quality isn't as good as it would otherwise be. 0:08:58.770 --> 0:09:02.410 But would you consign people in other countries to lifelong 0:09:02.450 --> 0:09:06.560 poverty because they can't get access to cheap, affordable, reliable 0:09:06.620 --> 0:09:09.560 energy that allows them to pull themselves out of poverty? 0:09:10.220 --> 0:09:13.319 Because that is basically what you're advocating for. You're saying, 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:14.480 bugger you, got mine. 0:09:14.500 --> 0:09:17.540 I can afford to pay her. high energy bill here 0:09:17.580 --> 0:09:19.479 in Australia so I can have renewables, everything. 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:21.819 But you on the other side of the world, you 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.570 don't have the opportunity to pull yourself out of poverty 0:09:24.630 --> 0:09:26.670 because I think all the coal should be kept in 0:09:26.710 --> 0:09:29.689 the ground. I know you think this is all about 0:09:29.750 --> 0:09:32.990 saving the human race, leaving a planet for your children, 0:09:33.030 --> 0:09:35.890 but I have to say it all feels really anti-human 0:09:35.950 --> 0:09:39.250 to me. And of course, this case relates to New 0:09:39.290 --> 0:09:42.010 South Wales law, so we don't yet know what it 0:09:42.050 --> 0:09:43.959 means for the rest of the country. But you can 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.819 bet your bottom dollar that now someone has run a 0:09:46.860 --> 0:09:49.700 case like this in New South Wales and one that 0:09:49.740 --> 0:09:52.400 it'll be tried on in every other state and territory. 0:09:52.740 --> 0:09:55.130 There will be an onslaught. 0:09:54.500 --> 0:09:57.429 Of cases like this to prevent new coal mines and 0:09:57.450 --> 0:10:00.780 the expansion of existing coal mines because if the precedent 0:10:00.900 --> 0:10:03.570 exists in New South Wales there may well also be 0:10:03.620 --> 0:10:07.410 ways that similar laws apply in other states and keep 0:10:07.429 --> 0:10:11.179 in mind also the Australian coal is is much cleaner 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.260 than a lot of coal that comes from other countries. 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.300 So the stuff that will now be burnt, instead of 0:10:16.500 --> 0:10:19.380 what would have been mined here in Australia, possibly puts 0:10:19.510 --> 0:10:23.430 more emissions into the atmosphere, making climate change, which is 0:10:23.470 --> 0:10:26.850 the centre of this argument, worse here in Australia. 0:10:27.250 --> 0:10:32.260 What an own goal. This is a ridiculous decision. It 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.290 will harm this country and just you watch. It will 0:10:35.330 --> 0:10:35.750 create an. 0:10:35.950 --> 0:10:39.809 Onslaught of green lawfare to prevent coal mines from going 0:10:39.870 --> 0:10:41.240 ahead ever again. 0:10:41.250 --> 0:10:47.640 It is just absurd. Now, of course, today is October. 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:50.620 7, and the third anniversary of the Hamas terror attack 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:54.610 on Israel, the largest slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust. And, 0:10:54.620 --> 0:10:56.679 of course, three years on, it's easy to feel a 0:10:56.820 --> 0:11:00.059 little bit removed from what happened then, and I'd like 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.319 to think to some degree that we can someday move 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:04.610 on in some way. But of course, this year here 0:11:04.650 --> 0:11:07.189 in Australia, it comes with the context of our own 0:11:07.270 --> 0:11:12.360 terror attack that happened at Bondi in December. And so today, 0:11:13.100 --> 0:11:17.179 for Australians, and particularly Jewish Australians, we're not just thinking 0:11:17.220 --> 0:11:21.199 about terror perpetrated upon Jews in Israel, we're also thinking 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:23.740 about terror perpetrated upon Jews. 0:11:24.140 --> 0:11:25.220 In our own country. 0:11:25.820 --> 0:11:29.080 A chain of events and anti-Semitism that led to one 0:11:29.100 --> 0:11:32.880 of this country's worst moments. And I'm sure for many 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:36.420 Jews this day, this date, October 7, is still as 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.260 painful as it was when it happened, and it probably 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.880 always will be, not only for those who know people 0:11:43.220 --> 0:11:46.220 who were tragically killed or raped or maimed during that 0:11:46.260 --> 0:11:49.660 Hamas terror attack, but also those who have watched the 0:11:49.740 --> 0:11:53.949 anti-Semitism that has unfolded since then, that of course ultimately 0:11:54.010 --> 0:11:57.309 resulted in a terror attack upon Jews in this country, 0:11:57.450 --> 0:12:02.210 the worst terror attack in this country's history. And so 0:12:02.590 --> 0:12:06.150 I find it extraordinary that on this date in particular, 0:12:06.650 --> 0:12:09.350 people around the country have chosen to go out and 0:12:09.390 --> 0:12:13.640 hold vigils, not for victims of the October 7 massacre, 0:12:13.700 --> 0:12:17.240 though there were those, and rightly so, but vigils to 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:21.520 mark the beginning of Israel's war on Gaza. And look, 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.780 I'm kind of loathe to give them any airtime because, 0:12:24.820 --> 0:12:27.160 of course, to some degree, that's what they want. They 0:12:27.179 --> 0:12:29.780 want the publicity. They want their cause to be promoted. 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.069 But when you choose this day to push your barrow, 0:12:33.450 --> 0:12:37.410 it can't go without comment. Now, you have a right 0:12:37.450 --> 0:12:40.590 to protest in this country, and I hope we always do. 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.020 It's a central part of democracy. And you also have 0:12:44.059 --> 0:12:47.699 the right to offend people and be offensive. I'm not 0:12:47.740 --> 0:12:50.420 here to say that people shouldn't be able to do 0:12:50.500 --> 0:12:54.120 things because it's a slippery slope. when you start outlawing 0:12:54.230 --> 0:12:57.469 certain forms of speech. But I am here to say 0:12:57.910 --> 0:13:01.650 that people should show some very basic decency and that 0:13:01.710 --> 0:13:04.530 anyone who went to one of these Gaza vigils today 0:13:04.929 --> 0:13:07.910 was there in the full knowledge of what October 7 0:13:07.910 --> 0:13:11.390 is and that by attending, they spat in the faces 0:13:11.750 --> 0:13:16.160 of victims of terrorism. Obviously, I say that figuratively, not literally, 0:13:16.220 --> 0:13:21.080 lest anyone complain. They spat in the faces of Jewish Australians. 0:13:21.950 --> 0:13:23.370 You want to talk about the war in Gaza? 0:13:23.490 --> 0:13:23.890 Okay. 0:13:24.710 --> 0:13:27.709 But you know what started that war in Gaza? A 0:13:27.790 --> 0:13:31.700 terror attack committed by Hamas and the slaughter of more 0:13:31.740 --> 0:13:35.720 than 1,200 innocent Jewish men and women and children. That's 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.520 what started this war in Gaza. That's what happened on 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.980 October 7. Without that, none. 0:13:42.820 --> 0:13:43.760 Of this would have happened. 0:13:44.260 --> 0:13:47.530 This war did not start out of thin air. And yes, 0:13:47.929 --> 0:13:50.720 There's always been conflict between Israel and Hamas and there 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.140 have been wars and bombings and whatever on and off 0:13:53.179 --> 0:13:56.260 for a very long time. But Israel didn't start a 0:13:56.300 --> 0:14:01.860 war on October 7, 2023. Hamas started a war with 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:05.410 the indiscriminate killing of innocent Jews in a terror attack. 0:14:06.330 --> 0:14:09.470 And so to stand there today on what is clearly 0:14:09.770 --> 0:14:13.110 an awful day for victims of terrorism and Jews around 0:14:13.150 --> 0:14:15.410 the world and to say that this is a day 0:14:15.450 --> 0:14:18.790 that needs to be commemorated and recognised... as the beginning 0:14:18.950 --> 0:14:23.370 of a genocide and a war on Gaza is just obscene. 0:14:24.210 --> 0:14:28.230 I mean, have you not an ounce of humanity? You're 0:14:28.250 --> 0:14:31.510 within your rights to question the actions of the Israeli government. 0:14:31.950 --> 0:14:34.050 You're within your rights to say that the war has 0:14:34.090 --> 0:14:36.100 gone on for too long or that the response has 0:14:36.130 --> 0:14:39.380 not been proportionate. These are arguments we can have in 0:14:39.420 --> 0:14:42.820 a legitimate way. But when you turn up on October 7th, 0:14:43.660 --> 0:14:46.740 to do what we have seen today, then you totally 0:14:46.780 --> 0:14:51.430 discredit anything that you have to say. By turning up today, 0:14:51.690 --> 0:14:54.930 you are basically saying, I don't care about the slaughter 0:14:55.030 --> 0:14:57.770 of Jews, and you are rubbing it in the faces 0:14:57.810 --> 0:15:00.490 of the victims of that awful event and the people 0:15:00.530 --> 0:15:03.190 who have had to deal with the anti-Semitism that has 0:15:03.270 --> 0:15:04.270 unfolded since then. 0:15:04.900 --> 0:15:05.970 I mean, what else are you going to do? 0:15:05.990 --> 0:15:08.950 You're going to rock up to Bondi in December and 0:15:08.990 --> 0:15:10.830 hold an event saying that this was the beginning of 0:15:10.870 --> 0:15:13.350 a campaign of Islamophobia. 0:15:12.510 --> 0:15:14.830 In this country and that Muslims are the real victims? 0:15:15.690 --> 0:15:17.530 It is just repugnant. 0:15:18.550 --> 0:15:21.550 It pains me that I have to share the same country, 0:15:21.590 --> 0:15:25.060 the same air as these people, because it's one thing 0:15:25.100 --> 0:15:27.160 to rock up to your silly rallies on any other 0:15:27.180 --> 0:15:30.940 day of the year, but to do it on October 7, 0:15:30.940 --> 0:15:34.470 there is no reason to do that... other than to 0:15:34.570 --> 0:15:39.770 say that you don't really care what happened on October 7. 0:15:39.770 --> 0:15:43.520 If you can't acknowledge what started this war, then you 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.740 can't claim to be the one with a heart, because 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.440 you are effectively telling Jews and the rest of us 0:15:49.860 --> 0:15:53.400 that you don't care what happened on October 7. It 0:15:53.460 --> 0:15:57.150 looks for all the world like you're condoning it. Now, 0:15:57.170 --> 0:16:01.050 at least these disgusting gatherings were mostly without incident. There 0:16:01.070 --> 0:16:05.120 was a scuffle in Melbourne between former IDF soldier Avi Yemeni, 0:16:05.180 --> 0:16:08.380 and a small group of protesters who turned up. And 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:12.540 in Sydney, there were the usual awful slogans. One sign had, 0:16:12.580 --> 0:16:15.540 from the river to the sea. Another said, from Warsaw 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:19.380 to Gaza, globalise the intifada. I mean, we all know 0:16:20.070 --> 0:16:22.290 what from the river to the sea and globalise the 0:16:22.330 --> 0:16:26.870 intifada means. Basically means kill all the Jews. And you've 0:16:26.910 --> 0:16:31.030 chosen this day of all days, to go out and 0:16:31.070 --> 0:16:31.990 say that publicly. 0:16:32.590 --> 0:16:33.990 Shame on you. 0:16:34.930 --> 0:16:36.900 And have a listen to the sort of charming people 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:39.540 who rocked up to the event near the Sydney Town 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.980 Hall this evening. This is from Will Satom in The Australian. 0:16:43.020 --> 0:16:46.600 He writes, Speaking with The Australian on Wednesday, one protester 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.940 named Sam said the October 7 Hamas attack was a 0:16:50.060 --> 0:16:53.820 false flag operation and also said that the Bondi Beach 0:16:53.860 --> 0:16:58.310 massacre was faked. Asked about police and media presence, he 0:16:58.370 --> 0:17:02.470 labelled them Zionists and said that officers attending were only 0:17:02.610 --> 0:17:03.989 here to intimidate. 0:17:04.710 --> 0:17:05.320 Seriously. 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:10.620 The Oz also reported that organisers distributed a flyer that read, 0:17:10.940 --> 0:17:15.340 Don't let Israel steal the date. Its genocidal airstrikes began 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.760 on October 7th, 2023. Don't let Israel steal the date. 0:17:22.820 --> 0:17:26.240 Why do you think airstrikes began on October 7, 2023, 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:31.560 you unmitigated morons? If you were one of the people 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.780 who turned up to one of these rallies today, and 0:17:34.820 --> 0:17:37.879 granted they're probably not watching this show tonight, but if 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.050 this message or this video somehow gets to you and 0:17:41.070 --> 0:17:44.710 you are watching it, let me just say, please pack 0:17:44.750 --> 0:17:47.930 your bags and go somewhere else because we don't need 0:17:47.990 --> 0:17:51.760 people like you here. As I've said before, you have 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.659 the right to protest and you have the right to 0:17:54.700 --> 0:17:57.359 make whatever arguments you want to make about the war. 0:17:58.260 --> 0:18:01.399 But if you won't let Jews have even one day 0:18:01.859 --> 0:18:04.540 to commemorate and mourn the loss of more than a 0:18:04.660 --> 0:18:07.760 thousand of their people in a terror attack, the biggest 0:18:07.820 --> 0:18:10.790 slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust, then you're not a 0:18:10.850 --> 0:18:15.790 protester or a humanitarian. You're a contemptible grub and you're 0:18:15.830 --> 0:18:16.410 lower than. 0:18:16.310 --> 0:18:17.070 A snake's belly. 0:18:18.950 --> 0:18:21.370 Now, amongst everything else going on, you might have forgotten 0:18:21.390 --> 0:18:24.060 about the fact that the government was caught giving out more. 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:26.000 Than $ 400. 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.480 Million of Commonwealth grants to Labor-held and marginal seats before 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.899 last year's federal election. That included $ 6 million for the 0:18:31.980 --> 0:18:36.580 Marrickville Golf Club in the Prime Minister's electorate. As a reminder, 0:18:36.580 --> 0:18:39.879 $ 560 million was handed out in grants for sporting clubs 0:18:39.940 --> 0:18:42.850 and playgrounds and swimming pools and community groups and the like. 0:18:43.300 --> 0:18:46.000 before the election, and almost three quarters of it went 0:18:46.060 --> 0:18:50.080 to safe Labor seats and marginal seats. 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:51.159 $ 409. 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:57.010 1 million, $ 560 million to marginal and Labor-held seats. Only 22.6% 0:18:57.010 --> 0:19:01.690 of the money went to coalition electorates. And this was 0:19:01.730 --> 0:19:05.970 an invitation-only process, and the Centre for Public Integrity found 0:19:06.010 --> 0:19:11.150 that marginal seats where Labor was competitive received disproportionately more money. 0:19:11.730 --> 0:19:14.879 This is Labor's sports rorts, and I'm not going to 0:19:14.940 --> 0:19:16.899 let you forget about it. I mean, how do you 0:19:16.940 --> 0:19:19.879 have an invite-only grant scheme? If you've ever heard of 0:19:19.940 --> 0:19:22.939 anything in your life that's open to abuse and favouritism, 0:19:23.460 --> 0:19:25.940 it's a grant scheme that's only open to people you've 0:19:25.980 --> 0:19:29.740 tapped on the shoulder to tell them it exists. Well, 0:19:29.790 --> 0:19:33.330 University of Sydney Professor Emerita Antumi, she's one of the 0:19:33.350 --> 0:19:37.730 most foremost, sorry, constitutional experts in this country, she's written 0:19:37.750 --> 0:19:41.090 a submission to a parliamentary inquiry looking into the grant schemes. 0:19:41.460 --> 0:19:45.109 She says it's grey corruption. Have a listen to what 0:19:45.150 --> 0:19:48.310 she wrote in her submission. If federal politicians want to 0:19:48.350 --> 0:19:51.970 win elections by making promises about swimming pools, golf clubs 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.410 and community centres in their electorates, then they need lessons 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:59.240 in both federalism and integrity. They should stand as local 0:19:59.300 --> 0:20:03.440 councillors if they want to provide local facilities. Federal politicians 0:20:03.500 --> 0:20:07.300 should not be making election promises about specific local projects 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.950 and and should not be making promises for the spending 0:20:09.990 --> 0:20:15.190 of public money based on political self-interest rather than public interest. No, 0:20:15.430 --> 0:20:17.970 this is not about being a good local member, she writes. 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:22.700 It's about indulging in grey corruption and the misuse of 0:20:22.820 --> 0:20:26.830 public money at the public's expense. This kind of misuse 0:20:26.869 --> 0:20:32.460 of public money engenders distrust in government, encourages corruption, wastes 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:36.199 public resources, and by all accounts does not even achieve 0:20:36.260 --> 0:20:39.820 its aim of securing votes in elections. I've got to 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.790 tell you what, she lines up and she does not miss. 0:20:43.380 --> 0:20:46.530 The government cannot be allowed to get away with this. 0:20:46.810 --> 0:20:49.250 I mean, they went nuts over sports rorts under the 0:20:49.270 --> 0:20:50.030 Morrison government. 0:20:50.050 --> 0:20:51.090 They're like a dog with a bone. 0:20:51.109 --> 0:20:53.810 I'm not sure why the Coalition and One Nation aren't 0:20:53.850 --> 0:20:56.679 going harder on this. At the moment, with all the 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.040 talk about government spending, it would seem to be the 0:20:59.260 --> 0:21:02.420 perfect time to hammer them over giving money to their 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:06.260 own electorates in an effort to win votes. Don't let 0:21:06.380 --> 0:21:08.879 them get away with it. Now, I spoke at the 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.780 top of the show about the High Court's ludicrous ruling 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.110 on coal mines today and how mines in New South 0:21:14.140 --> 0:21:17.070 Wales can be held responsible for emissions on the other 0:21:17.130 --> 0:21:19.609 side of the world. For more on this, I spoke 0:21:19.650 --> 0:21:24.340 a little earlier with Coal Australia Chief Executive Stuart Bockings. Stuart, 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:27.909 thank you for joining me. First off, your initial reaction 0:21:27.970 --> 0:21:31.190 to this decision today from the High Court. I can't 0:21:31.230 --> 0:21:35.250 believe that here in Australia we would somehow be held 0:21:35.290 --> 0:21:37.810 responsible for emissions on the other side of the earth. 0:21:38.790 --> 0:21:41.350 When it comes to coal mining and courts, sadly nothing 0:21:41.390 --> 0:21:45.280 surprises me anymore, Caleb, I'm afraid to say. But it 0:21:45.300 --> 0:21:48.580 is a strange one, particularly when you. 0:21:48.420 --> 0:21:51.880 Highlight yet again... seemingly the. 0:21:52.420 --> 0:21:56.879 Dislocation between laws at a state level and laws at 0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:00.450 a Commonwealth level. We've had Murray Watt out this afternoon saying, oh, well, 0:22:00.770 --> 0:22:04.070 nothing for us to worry about because our planning laws 0:22:04.130 --> 0:22:07.770 don't seek to deal with scope three emissions. And yet 0:22:08.150 --> 0:22:11.290 in the New South Wales jurisdiction, you've got this strange 0:22:11.330 --> 0:22:14.260 scenario where the courts had a look at a resources 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:17.800 planning instrument and said, well, actually, we have got to 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:23.360 consider how we regulate and potentially plan for scope three emissions, 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.220 the burning of coal in other countries. As a result, 0:22:27.260 --> 0:22:29.919 we say the consent authority didn't consider it. And on 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:31.850 that basis, we'll knock the project over. 0:22:32.490 --> 0:22:35.130 It's one thing for the federal government to say, well, 0:22:35.250 --> 0:22:38.030 it's not included in our laws, so we're not worried 0:22:38.070 --> 0:22:38.409 about it. 0:22:38.750 --> 0:22:40.070 But it's a bit of a cop out, really. 0:22:40.150 --> 0:22:41.859 I mean, surely they should be able to say, and 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:44.960 the prime minister has previously said that he supports the 0:22:45.020 --> 0:22:48.030 expansion of this project. Why is the federal government not 0:22:48.070 --> 0:22:51.010 today saying that this is a ridiculous decision and something 0:22:51.030 --> 0:22:53.109 needs to be done about the law in New South 0:22:53.150 --> 0:22:55.230 Wales instead of saying, oh, not my problem? 0:22:56.100 --> 0:22:58.679 Well, the simple fix is in New South Wales, and 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:01.119 you're absolutely right. Now, whether that's a matter for the 0:23:01.180 --> 0:23:03.419 feds or anyone else, there's certainly been a lot of 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:06.580 pressure on odours today from... Angus Taylor and Matt Canavan 0:23:06.730 --> 0:23:07.060 on this. 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:08.399 It is a mess. 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:12.220 The fact that we've got different targets for emissions from 0:23:12.340 --> 0:23:15.340 state to Commonwealth and state to state, the fact that 0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:18.070 we've got different planning rules from one state to another, 0:23:18.410 --> 0:23:20.970 the fact that those planning rules differ from one state 0:23:21.290 --> 0:23:25.470 to the Commonwealth just highlights what an absolute legal picnic 0:23:25.490 --> 0:23:29.330 we've created for these activists. who can jump on supposedly 0:23:29.910 --> 0:23:38.140 minor potential infractions or very much legalistic approaches to some 0:23:38.180 --> 0:23:42.160 of these things to find loopholes to unpick what are 0:23:42.380 --> 0:23:48.040 otherwise validly made consents. And bizarre to imagine you've got 0:23:48.060 --> 0:23:53.730 a situation where government decisions that are lawfully made... are 0:23:53.770 --> 0:23:58.770 then availing themselves through activists of taxpayer dollars to help 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:02.900 then go after those very same decisions made by government 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:05.740 which are driving prosperity in Australia. 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:09.220 What discussions have you had with the Minsk government today 0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:12.490 about this? And if you have, do you have any 0:24:12.590 --> 0:24:14.490 sense that they will change these laws? 0:24:15.230 --> 0:24:19.060 Look, I think undoubtedly they are very aware of the 0:24:19.540 --> 0:24:23.220 political machinations in the Hunter Valley. Obviously, there's a New 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:25.820 South Wales election coming up in March of next year. 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:27.180 One Nation is. 0:24:27.100 --> 0:24:31.020 Certainly applying some pressure both to the coalition and also 0:24:31.060 --> 0:24:34.240 to Labor. So they are acutely aware. 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:35.859 What has been interesting for me. 0:24:35.780 --> 0:24:38.820 Today as someone who advocates day in, day out on 0:24:38.880 --> 0:24:43.670 coal mining related issues, is how seemingly so many politicians 0:24:43.730 --> 0:24:46.389 seem suddenly so eager to get involved on this one 0:24:46.430 --> 0:24:48.090 and to try and sort things out. 0:24:48.350 --> 0:24:51.220 That is encouraging. There's a very. 0:24:51.060 --> 0:24:54.139 Simple fix in terms of where these things go in 0:24:54.180 --> 0:24:57.540 New South Wales, and that is whenever the Independent Planning 0:24:57.580 --> 0:25:01.570 Commission grants the consent for these projects, it's simply a 0:25:01.609 --> 0:25:05.109 matter then of bringing on legislation which would allow the 0:25:05.190 --> 0:25:10.859 parliament to validate those consent and therefore stop it being 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:15.810 torn asunder by delaying tactics and lawfare that drags on 0:25:15.850 --> 0:25:18.659 these approval processes for years and years and years. 0:25:19.090 --> 0:25:21.030 Well, if the law were to stand as it is, 0:25:21.230 --> 0:25:24.629 now that this precedent has been set by the High Court, 0:25:25.330 --> 0:25:28.550 I mean, I don't see a circumstance in which another 0:25:29.250 --> 0:25:31.970 coal mine gets opened or someone seeks to expand a 0:25:31.990 --> 0:25:35.520 coal mine, because if you have to justify the emissions 0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:38.240 that happen on the other side of the world, surely 0:25:38.280 --> 0:25:41.020 it makes the whole thing basically impossible, or certainly a 0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:41.960 hell of a lot more difficult. 0:25:42.619 --> 0:25:43.820 I think that's right, Caleb. 0:25:43.960 --> 0:25:47.540 Look, what is interesting, obviously, the Independent Planning Commission's decision 0:25:47.600 --> 0:25:51.330 on Hunter Valley operations last week did include a condition 0:25:51.750 --> 0:25:54.890 whereby they said that taking into account, and I think 0:25:55.230 --> 0:25:57.810 with an eye to where the High Court might potentially 0:25:57.830 --> 0:26:00.929 go on this one today, they imposed a condition on 0:26:01.150 --> 0:26:04.440 HVO that they would need to limit the sales of 0:26:04.540 --> 0:26:08.340 coal to countries that were demonstrating. 0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:09.359 that they. 0:26:09.260 --> 0:26:13.380 Were seeking to reduce emissions in line with the Paris Agreement. 0:26:13.730 --> 0:26:17.950 Not necessarily signatories to the Paris Agreement, but reducing emissions 0:26:18.010 --> 0:26:20.710 in line with it. Now, whether that sort of condition 0:26:21.230 --> 0:26:24.359 is enough to satisfy what the High Court has ruled 0:26:24.400 --> 0:26:28.510 to date We really don't know unless it was challenged, 0:26:28.890 --> 0:26:32.190 but that makes it incumbent upon the New South Wales 0:26:32.230 --> 0:26:35.820 government to ensure that HVO or any others that come 0:26:35.859 --> 0:26:38.720 through the planning system can't be torn asunder in the 0:26:38.760 --> 0:26:40.040 same way as Mount Pleasant. 0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:43.180 And you must be concerned now that people in other 0:26:43.240 --> 0:26:46.480 states will seek to run similar cases, regardless of whether 0:26:46.500 --> 0:26:49.220 or not those laws exist. You'd have to think this 0:26:49.260 --> 0:26:50.860 will spark more green lawfare. 0:26:51.700 --> 0:26:54.120 They'll certainly be having a throw at the stumps. I mean, 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:56.850 for some of those activist groups, all of their Christmases 0:26:56.890 --> 0:27:00.390 have come at once because whilst Mount Pleasant can continue 0:27:00.410 --> 0:27:03.060 to operate with a six-year extension through to 2032, they 0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:04.840 were obviously originally. 0:27:07.010 --> 0:27:09.210 had approved to run till 2048. 0:27:09.210 --> 0:27:11.869 Now, there's still a pathway for them to get there, 0:27:12.270 --> 0:27:15.680 but again, it's more time, it's more money, it's more delay, 0:27:16.100 --> 0:27:19.439 and it does threaten investment. But you're absolutely right, and 0:27:19.500 --> 0:27:22.780 this is the problem. They will be certainly pouring over 0:27:22.820 --> 0:27:24.840 decisions in Western Australia, in. 0:27:24.810 --> 0:27:26.150 Queensland and elsewhere. 0:27:26.580 --> 0:27:29.700 to try and bring these projects undone, despite the fact 0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:31.230 iron ore and coal are. 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:32.730 Our two biggest export earners. 0:27:33.050 --> 0:27:36.690 They are driving the country, and the deficit would look 0:27:36.730 --> 0:27:39.070 a whole lot worse if it wasn't. 0:27:38.790 --> 0:27:39.560 For coal mining. 0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:41.879 And the reality is these countries are going to get 0:27:41.900 --> 0:27:44.459 their coal anyway. If it doesn't come from us, it's 0:27:44.480 --> 0:27:46.740 going to come from somewhere else. and they'd be better 0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:49.900 off burning cleaner Australian coal than they would anything else. 0:27:49.940 --> 0:27:52.780 You know, the Greenies have effectively done themselves over with 0:27:52.800 --> 0:27:55.060 this decision, because if they think what happens on the 0:27:55.100 --> 0:27:57.520 other side of the world is affecting Australia, well, they're 0:27:57.540 --> 0:27:59.629 going to get more emissions out of foreign coal. 0:27:59.710 --> 0:28:02.409 Well, we're in the midst of, yet again, setting a 0:28:02.490 --> 0:28:04.530 new record for global coal demand. 0:28:04.710 --> 0:28:06.190 That's the reality. 0:28:06.230 --> 0:28:09.270 We're not driving that demand. We're helping to satisfy it 0:28:09.650 --> 0:28:13.720 with the cleanest and least emissions-intensive coal. 0:28:14.190 --> 0:28:15.510 that is available on the planet. 0:28:15.590 --> 0:28:19.760 And, frankly, if they are so concerned about global emissions, 0:28:20.220 --> 0:28:25.139 then I'd be focused on Mongolian coal or Indonesian coal because, frankly, 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:30.060 the last coal to go should be Australian coal. 0:28:30.060 --> 0:28:31.880 100%. Stuart Bocking, thank you for your time. 0:28:32.619 --> 0:28:33.710 Terrific, Caleb. Thank you. 0:28:34.810 --> 0:28:35.830 I've just had a message from a. 0:28:35.810 --> 0:28:37.510 Viewer saying if we're not going to let our coal 0:28:37.530 --> 0:28:40.020 go overseas because it'll be bad for the world, maybe 0:28:40.060 --> 0:28:43.360 we also need to stop taking things from countries that 0:28:43.540 --> 0:28:44.040 use coal. 0:28:44.260 --> 0:28:44.740 Fair point. 0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:47.070 Coming up after the break, plenty to get into with 0:28:47.090 --> 0:28:49.330 the panel. The Coalition are up and about, but is 0:28:49.350 --> 0:28:51.610 it enough to turn the dial? Thanks for being here 0:28:51.650 --> 0:28:58.450 on this Wednesday night. Oh, let's see what's going on 0:28:58.470 --> 0:29:00.430 in the world, shall we? Joining me now is One 0:29:00.470 --> 0:29:03.880 Nation Senator Sean Bell and former Labor Councillor Linda Scott, 0:29:03.930 --> 0:29:05.120 both in the man cave. 0:29:05.160 --> 0:29:07.240 A pleasure to have you both here. 0:29:07.700 --> 0:29:09.480 I want to start with... There's a bit going on 0:29:09.500 --> 0:29:15.440 with the Coalition. Obviously, yesterday, we had the migration policy announced. 0:29:15.630 --> 0:29:17.890 You've got Tim Wilson tonight in The Australian. I assume 0:29:17.910 --> 0:29:20.330 it'll be in tomorrow's paper, but it's on the website tonight. 0:29:20.780 --> 0:29:23.160 saying that the next election will be a referendum on 0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:26.940 the economy and economic hope, particularly for self-starters, self-employed and 0:29:27.000 --> 0:29:30.040 small and family businesses of the nation that are being 0:29:30.160 --> 0:29:34.510 sunk by Labor's active inflation agenda and rising costs. And 0:29:34.530 --> 0:29:38.530 he's saying that that election will be a referendum on 0:29:38.610 --> 0:29:39.310 the economy. 0:29:39.350 --> 0:29:39.970 What do you make of that? 0:29:40.190 --> 0:29:40.490 Linda? 0:29:41.330 --> 0:29:43.530 Well, look, I think the next election will be a 0:29:43.730 --> 0:29:46.700 battle for the coalition to make themselves relevant at all 0:29:46.780 --> 0:29:48.880 for people to know who they are and what they're 0:29:48.900 --> 0:29:49.520 standing for. 0:29:49.600 --> 0:29:51.820 So I understand... I'm sure that's welcome news to. 0:29:51.920 --> 0:29:53.820 Well, I mean, I think it is the case that, 0:29:53.880 --> 0:29:56.980 you know, we've seen One Nation increase in the polls and, 0:29:57.000 --> 0:30:01.290 you know, Labor is... very concerned about that. But nevertheless, 0:30:01.390 --> 0:30:03.890 it is the case that the polling shows that One 0:30:03.930 --> 0:30:07.910 Nation currently in Australia are polling significantly in advance of 0:30:07.930 --> 0:30:11.480 the coalition. So, you know, Tim Wilson's having a whack 0:30:11.560 --> 0:30:13.860 at it in the Australian, but I think really this 0:30:13.960 --> 0:30:17.500 is an attempt at the coalition at having some relevance 0:30:17.720 --> 0:30:21.880 in the contemporary political debate. We've got a Victorian state election, 0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:24.270 a New South Wales state election coming up in the 0:30:24.310 --> 0:30:26.410 next few months, and it will be interesting to see 0:30:27.190 --> 0:30:31.290 where the coalition lands. There are obviously predictions being made that, 0:30:31.350 --> 0:30:35.040 you know, regional parties, particularly the National Party in Victoria 0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:38.360 and New South Wales, may well get significantly reduced or 0:30:38.420 --> 0:30:42.320 indeed reduced to zero seats. I think this is a 0:30:42.380 --> 0:30:45.140 serious issue that people need to pay attention to. And 0:30:45.220 --> 0:30:48.540 so I think Mr Wilson needs to consider, you know, 0:30:48.940 --> 0:30:51.700 what the party is going to do about this existential 0:30:51.770 --> 0:30:54.950 threat rather than trying to frame the next federal election 0:30:55.010 --> 0:30:58.420 about an issue when people are just not paying attention 0:30:58.460 --> 0:31:01.060 to them. Their message is not resonating at all. 0:31:01.380 --> 0:31:03.600 I think he's right about the economics part, though, Sean. 0:31:04.360 --> 0:31:06.220 You look at the last week and the rise in 0:31:06.260 --> 0:31:09.870 interest rates, that Redbridge poll that came out on Monday, 0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:14.070 a significant hit to the Prime Minister and the Treasurer 0:31:14.110 --> 0:31:17.630 in terms of their personal approval ratings in amongst all 0:31:17.650 --> 0:31:21.450 of this happening. I think the government spending argument is 0:31:21.530 --> 0:31:23.730 actually starting to cut through a bit. 0:31:24.340 --> 0:31:28.370 Yeah, Craig, look, The reason this is now an economic 0:31:28.690 --> 0:31:31.930 battlefield is because of the failure of the Labor government. 0:31:33.480 --> 0:31:35.960 everything that One Nation is talking about, we understand that 0:31:35.980 --> 0:31:38.380 this is a cost of living lens. The cost of 0:31:38.400 --> 0:31:41.880 living crisis is the number one issue that voters are 0:31:41.920 --> 0:31:44.000 concerned about. And so when One Nation is talking about 0:31:44.060 --> 0:31:46.940 scrapping net zero, we are saying that we must do 0:31:46.980 --> 0:31:49.010 that because that is the number one way that you 0:31:49.030 --> 0:31:52.850 can relieve pressure on households, on businesses. When we talk 0:31:52.890 --> 0:31:55.790 about ending mass migration... That's just not true, though. Well, 0:31:55.810 --> 0:31:57.930 when we talk about ending mass migration, that, again, is 0:31:57.970 --> 0:32:00.810 a cost of living issue. We're looking at relieving pressure on... 0:32:01.510 --> 0:32:03.370 on households, on families, on rents. 0:32:03.390 --> 0:32:05.450 But that won't hit the budget in a negative way too. 0:32:05.490 --> 0:32:08.690 And then when we talk about dealing. 0:32:07.930 --> 0:32:09.590 With the cost of impressions that are hurting people, One 0:32:09.630 --> 0:32:11.670 Nation is there leading the way on those arguments too 0:32:11.710 --> 0:32:15.130 with our super pay boost policy, putting more money back 0:32:15.170 --> 0:32:17.890 in people's pockets without affecting the bottom line of the 0:32:18.210 --> 0:32:20.750 federal government's budget. And we acknowledge that. 0:32:20.770 --> 0:32:24.130 Voting against all their pain conditions in the federal parliament. 0:32:24.210 --> 0:32:24.410 I mean. 0:32:24.740 --> 0:32:29.530 I mean, look, if we are talking good economic management 0:32:30.230 --> 0:32:33.630 opposing the terrible ideas proposed by the Labor government, especially 0:32:33.770 --> 0:32:37.290 in this latest budget, I mean, that is... front and 0:32:37.350 --> 0:32:39.110 centre of what we will do. I'm actually proud that 0:32:39.170 --> 0:32:42.170 we fought tooth and nail against the proposals in that 0:32:42.210 --> 0:32:45.750 budget because it was a disaster. Jim Chalmers and Anthony Albanese, 0:32:45.830 --> 0:32:49.370 through that terrible budget, have inflicted massive amounts of suffering, 0:32:49.890 --> 0:32:53.890 driven up cost of living, driven up inflation. So I'm 0:32:53.930 --> 0:32:56.140 proud to say we opposed it and we will continue 0:32:56.160 --> 0:32:56.520 to do so. 0:32:56.900 --> 0:33:00.160 It's a problem for the government now, isn't it, Linda? 0:33:00.460 --> 0:33:03.540 The economic argument is now a big problem, particularly with inflation. 0:33:04.160 --> 0:33:06.120 And the government seems to refuse to acknowledge that it's 0:33:06.140 --> 0:33:07.100 playing a part in all of this. 0:33:07.660 --> 0:33:09.290 Well, I don't think that's correct. I think the Treasurer 0:33:09.330 --> 0:33:12.550 this week has acknowledged that inflation is a problem for 0:33:12.610 --> 0:33:15.670 households and that it is impacting Australians in a significant way. 0:33:16.270 --> 0:33:19.870 And I think everybody understands that and everybody is experiencing that. 0:33:19.890 --> 0:33:22.770 I don't think anybody is denying that. I think what 0:33:22.850 --> 0:33:25.710 matters is the proposals that people are putting forward to 0:33:25.760 --> 0:33:30.400 try and combat that. Labor has taken several budgets which 0:33:30.460 --> 0:33:34.330 provide tax cuts to Australians. They've put forward laws that 0:33:34.390 --> 0:33:37.410 help people get pay rises. They've put forward laws that 0:33:37.470 --> 0:33:40.970 protect workers' rights and protect people's jobs. These are positive 0:33:41.010 --> 0:33:45.730 things for Australians. They're putting forward reforms to make sure 0:33:45.770 --> 0:33:47.710 that when you go to pay by a credit card 0:33:47.760 --> 0:33:49.600 for a coffee, you know how much it's going to cost, 0:33:49.660 --> 0:33:52.060 and that cost is transparently before you. 0:33:52.320 --> 0:33:53.320 These things are positive things. 0:33:53.380 --> 0:33:54.680 I notice you don't say, as the Prime Minister did, 0:33:54.700 --> 0:33:57.650 that it will make the cost of things cheaper. That's 0:33:57.670 --> 0:33:59.990 what the Prime Minister claimed, which is patently wrong. 0:34:00.210 --> 0:34:00.570 Well, no. 0:34:00.650 --> 0:34:03.850 I mean, I think, you know, for 16% of businesses 0:34:04.330 --> 0:34:07.270 in Australia, according to the RBA, they were adding the 0:34:07.330 --> 0:34:11.550 cost of the surcharge from the credit card company onto 0:34:11.590 --> 0:34:13.359 the price of a good or service. 0:34:13.380 --> 0:34:14.569 And I don't disagree on that. 0:34:14.700 --> 0:34:16.900 The RBA also said it's going to be inflationary. The 0:34:16.980 --> 0:34:19.340 RBA also noted that's going to be inflationary and the 0:34:19.380 --> 0:34:20.580 Labor government did it anyways. 0:34:21.930 --> 0:34:23.830 I don't disagree on that point, but it was sold 0:34:23.870 --> 0:34:25.070 as though it was going to save you money. I 0:34:25.070 --> 0:34:26.380 don't think it's actually saving you money. It might be 0:34:26.420 --> 0:34:27.400 more upfront about the cost. 0:34:27.680 --> 0:34:29.819 No issue with that. I'm not sure it's saving you money. 0:34:30.800 --> 0:34:33.660 On the point, though, about the inflation, I went through 0:34:33.700 --> 0:34:40.510 last night the latest YouGov News24 Pulse poll numbers, and 63% 0:34:40.510 --> 0:34:43.669 of people don't buy the argument that is being given 0:34:43.690 --> 0:34:46.260 by the Treasurer... that it is, and you can see 0:34:46.280 --> 0:34:49.440 the numbers there, that the war in the Middle East 0:34:49.580 --> 0:34:51.719 is the primary cause of interest rates going up. 0:34:52.060 --> 0:34:54.480 Like, people just don't believe it, Sean. 0:34:55.320 --> 0:34:58.219 Well, very astute of those voters to not believe that 0:34:58.239 --> 0:35:00.969 because it's the truth. And I'll go straight back to 0:35:01.530 --> 0:35:05.610 net zero, the Albanese Labor government's obsession with those targets. 0:35:05.650 --> 0:35:08.649 You heard it again today where Albanese... He talked about 0:35:08.670 --> 0:35:11.380 sort of he's optimistic that they can hit these targets. 0:35:12.210 --> 0:35:13.210 Again, it is absurd. 0:35:13.710 --> 0:35:17.009 The fact is they are driving up electricity prices. And 0:35:17.030 --> 0:35:20.590 when we're talking about inputs into the economy that increase inflation, 0:35:21.230 --> 0:35:23.630 electricity is one of the number one inputs. 0:35:24.590 --> 0:35:28.380 It is the case that electricity is a driver of inflation, Senator. 0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:32.460 But if you're going to propose steering back to opening 0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:36.240 and paying for new coal mines or new nuclear power plants, 0:35:36.560 --> 0:35:39.640 that is a far more expensive, far more inflationary route. 0:35:39.700 --> 0:35:41.790 So you need to be honest, I think, about your 0:35:41.830 --> 0:35:44.370 policies to the Australian public. If you're going to pay 0:35:44.469 --> 0:35:48.430 for infrastructure that is renewable, that is a transition we 0:35:48.690 --> 0:35:51.239 need to make because of the science of climate change. 0:35:51.300 --> 0:35:54.540 But it will also be a far cheaper route than 0:35:54.980 --> 0:35:58.920 opening up coal power plants or opening up nuclear power plants, 0:35:59.060 --> 0:36:03.220 both of which are prohibitively expensive. And then the energy delivery, 0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:06.310 as you would know, I'm sure, is also incredibly expensive. 0:36:06.350 --> 0:36:10.360 So we are in a global environment where inflation is present. 0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:13.400 It is the responsibility of governments to try and address 0:36:13.460 --> 0:36:16.640 that and support the RBA's work to bring that back 0:36:16.739 --> 0:36:20.420 into the target band. I think the Treasurer is rightly 0:36:20.480 --> 0:36:23.860 objecting when the RBA is calling out that one of 0:36:23.900 --> 0:36:27.770 the best levers to do that is to bring up unemployment. 0:36:27.930 --> 0:36:31.710 I mean, that is not a good way to kick 0:36:31.730 --> 0:36:33.890 people out of jobs, to ask for there to be 0:36:34.300 --> 0:36:38.400 fewer people in employment, that may be a lever against inflation, 0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:41.640 but that is a dangerous lever to pull to ask 0:36:41.700 --> 0:36:45.170 Australians to accept a higher unemployment rate. This government has 0:36:45.250 --> 0:36:48.850 worked incredibly hard to deliver one of the lowest unemployment 0:36:48.910 --> 0:36:51.470 rates on record. That obviously means more people in jobs. 0:36:51.489 --> 0:36:53.610 That's a good thing for the nation. We should be 0:36:53.650 --> 0:36:57.310 very proud of that. One nation should be championing that, 0:36:57.810 --> 0:37:00.950 not talking down the economy, not talking down the number 0:37:00.969 --> 0:37:04.330 of people who are in employment in Australia. 0:37:04.370 --> 0:37:06.510 But at the same time, real wages have gone backwards 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:08.589 and we have a huge productivity problem. 0:37:08.910 --> 0:37:10.359 But we've got some other things we need to talk about. 0:37:10.380 --> 0:37:13.340 Of course, it's October 7. 0:37:13.340 --> 0:37:16.029 I just can't believe these people who've gone out tonight 0:37:17.450 --> 0:37:20.510 and protested, or as they've called it at the Sydney 0:37:20.530 --> 0:37:25.270 Town Hall, held a vigil saying, don't let Israel take 0:37:25.350 --> 0:37:29.529 the date of October 7. You're within your rights to 0:37:29.710 --> 0:37:33.910 protest and make arguments about the war, but surely you 0:37:33.950 --> 0:37:35.300 leave this day. 0:37:35.140 --> 0:37:35.759 Alone, Linda. 0:37:36.550 --> 0:37:38.719 Look, I have to say I was at Sydney Town 0:37:38.760 --> 0:37:40.779 Hall this evening, not at that event. I was at 0:37:40.860 --> 0:37:44.000 the Sydney Town Hall for another event inside the Town Hall. 0:37:44.020 --> 0:37:48.730 I walked up the main stairs and down and hand 0:37:48.790 --> 0:37:50.630 on heart, I didn't look around a lot, but I 0:37:50.710 --> 0:37:54.430 didn't see protesters there. They may well have been there 0:37:54.469 --> 0:37:57.569 around the side where I didn't see But, you know, 0:37:57.650 --> 0:37:59.779 it wasn't a large event. 0:37:59.800 --> 0:38:03.180 I think they were around near the cathedral. Perhaps. From 0:38:03.200 --> 0:38:03.580 the vision. 0:38:03.640 --> 0:38:08.000 It was also the funeral today of the police officer 0:38:08.060 --> 0:38:14.069 who tragically passed away in Redfern recently. So, you know, 0:38:14.090 --> 0:38:16.709 there's a lot of people in and around Town Hall 0:38:16.730 --> 0:38:20.370 today and it is traditionally a space for gathering and people, 0:38:20.450 --> 0:38:22.450 you know, when I was a councillor for 12 years 0:38:22.510 --> 0:38:25.120 there was rarely a day when I would not walk 0:38:25.180 --> 0:38:27.020 out the front steps and there would not be somebody 0:38:27.060 --> 0:38:29.719 there with a sign about something. So, I mean, I 0:38:29.760 --> 0:38:33.020 think we in this nation, you know, believe and stand 0:38:33.140 --> 0:38:36.440 up for the right to make a point. And in Sydney, 0:38:36.540 --> 0:38:39.560 that's a place that's often done outside Town Hall. Nevertheless, 0:38:40.440 --> 0:38:43.319 I think on a date as sensitive as this for 0:38:43.420 --> 0:38:49.120 our Jewish community, manners would dictate that it is not 0:38:49.239 --> 0:38:53.780 the right day to be doing anything other than remembering 0:38:53.800 --> 0:38:57.860 the terrible atrocity that occurred at Bondi. 0:38:58.360 --> 0:39:00.820 At the very least, I would say manners. 0:39:00.980 --> 0:39:03.739 And the Premier's comments here in New South Wales from 0:39:03.840 --> 0:39:06.830 Chris Minns on that I think were appropriate to just 0:39:06.850 --> 0:39:10.650 call for... calm uh and to call for a sense 0:39:10.690 --> 0:39:15.290 of respect about this very significant date for australia's and 0:39:15.350 --> 0:39:17.109 the world's jewish community. 0:39:17.070 --> 0:39:19.319 I said earlier sean you know they basically spat in 0:39:19.340 --> 0:39:22.520 the face of jews today i just it's so. 0:39:22.380 --> 0:39:25.960 Awful really i mean it's vile it's vile it's intentionally 0:39:26.120 --> 0:39:30.319 inflammatory but it's not sadly it is not surprising Because 0:39:30.340 --> 0:39:33.879 we've seen these groups and these people do this from 0:39:33.920 --> 0:39:36.799 day dot. And we remember the march on the Opera House, 0:39:37.300 --> 0:39:40.509 we saw the march across Sydney Harbour Bridge, holding up 0:39:40.680 --> 0:39:43.730 photos of terrorist leaders. And I mean, this is, again, 0:39:43.750 --> 0:39:46.410 this is the end, the fact that people feel so 0:39:46.469 --> 0:39:50.270 comfortable and emboldened to do so speaks to a greater..... 0:39:50.230 --> 0:39:54.090 issue that we experience, that they have... We see in Parliament, 0:39:54.110 --> 0:39:57.049 the Greens go into the chamber wearing the keffiyeh. It's 0:39:57.130 --> 0:40:01.810 a continuation of these same vile attitudes and beliefs. And 0:40:01.850 --> 0:40:04.340 that is off the back of things like the Labor government, 0:40:04.390 --> 0:40:07.819 for instance, failing to condemn it strongly enough. 0:40:08.460 --> 0:40:09.680 Yeah. 0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:12.670 We're running out of time. I know you want to. 0:40:12.690 --> 0:40:14.290 I'm sorry to bring this to a close. 0:40:15.190 --> 0:40:17.109 You want to talk about pink slugs very quickly. Look, 0:40:17.130 --> 0:40:18.339 can I say... To completely change the subject. 0:40:18.360 --> 0:40:20.680 This is one of my favourite things. As you know, 0:40:20.760 --> 0:40:24.100 I love a regional local government. The mayor of Narrabri 0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:26.980 and the council there are absolutely committed to building a 0:40:27.100 --> 0:40:32.540 giant pink fluorescent slug, which genuinely is the only place 0:40:32.580 --> 0:40:36.060 in the world where these incredibly endangered species of slugs 0:40:36.100 --> 0:40:38.940 that can get up to 20 centimetres exist. 0:40:39.410 --> 0:40:39.870 So I do. 0:40:39.810 --> 0:40:42.129 Want to put in a plug for this. I would 0:40:42.250 --> 0:40:45.110 love to go and visit a giant fluorescent pink slug 0:40:45.130 --> 0:40:49.860 statue in Narrabri. They're looking for a generous philanthropist or two, 0:40:49.940 --> 0:40:52.440 you know, a couple of hundred thousand dollars, very affordable 0:40:52.480 --> 0:40:56.480 public artwork. Narrabri, I'm on your side. I hope Australia 0:40:56.500 --> 0:40:58.700 can get behind you. And in the near future, we 0:40:58.719 --> 0:41:03.680 can see this incredible giant pink slug memorialised in the 0:41:03.719 --> 0:41:05.980 town of Narrabri. I wish them all the best with 0:41:06.000 --> 0:41:07.700 this incredibly cool campaign. 0:41:08.940 --> 0:41:11.210 I'm just hoping that they don't find a way to 0:41:11.230 --> 0:41:13.190 get the federal government to provide some kind of grant. 0:41:14.160 --> 0:41:16.120 To them on this. Like, I just hope that that. 0:41:16.380 --> 0:41:19.879 I think they're looking for philanthropy, not for public money, but. 0:41:20.780 --> 0:41:22.120 And that's exactly the way to do it. 0:41:22.120 --> 0:41:23.339 But I tell you what, we might all be going 0:41:23.360 --> 0:41:25.480 to see the pink slug in Narrabri. 0:41:25.500 --> 0:41:28.500 Let's do it. Thank you for joining me. Alright, the 0:41:28.540 --> 0:41:29.140 next election. 0:41:29.280 --> 0:41:31.500 Oh, what have I got here? Something completely different there. 0:41:31.520 --> 0:41:34.140 But anyway, never mind. Up next, we'll have Tom Slater 0:41:34.680 --> 0:41:38.000 from the UK. Prince Andrew, now he's going after the police. 0:41:38.020 --> 0:41:40.160 But apparently his life is not too bad. 0:41:40.180 --> 0:41:47.160 More coming up. Caleb Bond in for Paul this week. 0:41:47.219 --> 0:41:49.340 Now for all the latest from the UK, let's cross 0:41:49.360 --> 0:41:53.189 to London where Spiked Online editor Tom Slater joins me now. Tom, 0:41:53.310 --> 0:41:55.290 good to see you. Of course, one of the biggest 0:41:55.310 --> 0:41:58.830 stories out of the UK this week is former Prince 0:41:58.989 --> 0:42:02.850 Andrew is now going after the police legally because he believes. 0:42:03.469 --> 0:42:06.940 His arrest was improper. And we've also heard that, actually, 0:42:07.320 --> 0:42:09.680 he's rather enjoying life at the moment. 0:42:10.000 --> 0:42:11.839 All these reports that he's sort of been, you know, 0:42:12.320 --> 0:42:15.190 wallowing in his own pity and watching television on his 0:42:15.290 --> 0:42:18.130 own all day aren't true. He's been going out shooting 0:42:18.170 --> 0:42:20.390 with his mates and his friends are coming around to 0:42:20.930 --> 0:42:23.370 visit him. It sounds like life isn't all that bad. 0:42:25.690 --> 0:42:27.670 This is the thing about Prince Andrew, isn't it, Caleb, 0:42:27.690 --> 0:42:31.009 is that despite the charges which have been levelled against him, 0:42:31.030 --> 0:42:33.930 despite the fact he's been so thoroughly disgraced over the 0:42:33.969 --> 0:42:38.680 course of the Epstein scandal, he's someone whose own self-image 0:42:38.860 --> 0:42:42.700 seems to be totally undented. He's a kind of psychologically 0:42:42.780 --> 0:42:45.460 Teflon in that way and always has been, to the 0:42:45.500 --> 0:42:48.460 point where, as you say, he's even, in response to 0:42:48.480 --> 0:42:52.600 the ongoing investigation, coming out swinging. The King had to 0:42:52.640 --> 0:42:55.840 confirm this week that there would be no royal private 0:42:55.880 --> 0:42:58.420 money involved in this legal action against Thames Valley Police, 0:42:59.020 --> 0:43:02.460 the Duke who wants to challenge not the investigation itself, 0:43:02.719 --> 0:43:06.500 but the warrants that were issued, which allowed them to 0:43:06.910 --> 0:43:10.310 search his home, and is hoping that the old Bailey 0:43:10.450 --> 0:43:13.549 will suggest that those were in some way improper. But 0:43:13.590 --> 0:43:15.890 it's just a reminder that even in the face of 0:43:15.969 --> 0:43:20.279 being charged, being levelled with this investigation of misconduct in 0:43:20.640 --> 0:43:23.569 public office, even with the the extent to which he 0:43:23.610 --> 0:43:25.790 was an unpopular figure already in the UK and has 0:43:25.810 --> 0:43:28.490 become even more so since. The fact that he's still 0:43:28.820 --> 0:43:31.239 able to enjoy himself certainly says something about the man, 0:43:31.280 --> 0:43:33.739 whether it's good or bad, or allow your viewers to 0:43:33.780 --> 0:43:35.080 make up their minds for themselves. 0:43:35.460 --> 0:43:35.860 Indeed. 0:43:36.400 --> 0:43:39.489 What's his actual issue with the warrants, though? What does 0:43:39.550 --> 0:43:41.029 he actually think is improper here? 0:43:42.219 --> 0:43:43.020 Well, that's the question. 0:43:43.040 --> 0:43:45.260 I mean, it will come out when this actually eventually 0:43:45.320 --> 0:43:49.370 gets in front of a judge. But I believe his 0:43:49.430 --> 0:43:52.569 idea is that they were effectively improperly granted and that 0:43:52.650 --> 0:43:55.070 therefore that might allow him a little breathing space. It 0:43:55.110 --> 0:43:58.490 is important to suggest that this wouldn't necessarily derail the 0:43:59.270 --> 0:44:01.890 legal process itself. It's not like this would throw it 0:44:02.010 --> 0:44:03.859 out from what at least I gather and what I've seen. 0:44:04.400 --> 0:44:08.100 more expert voices say on the matter. That being said, 0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:11.910 it's a reminder, I think, that his approach to all 0:44:11.950 --> 0:44:14.370 of this is to come out swinging, and we'll see 0:44:14.410 --> 0:44:15.210 what ends up with it. 0:44:15.850 --> 0:44:16.170 Indeed. 0:44:16.370 --> 0:44:20.170 Speaking of coming out swinging, the Conservative Party conference is 0:44:20.230 --> 0:44:23.489 going on at the moment. Probably the biggest headline out 0:44:23.510 --> 0:44:27.219 of that was, of course, Jeremy Clarkson going to speak 0:44:27.320 --> 0:44:29.200 the other day, and that all seemed to go down 0:44:29.280 --> 0:44:31.520 reasonably well. But what else has come out of the 0:44:31.560 --> 0:44:32.240 Tory conference? 0:44:33.420 --> 0:44:34.739 Well, not a hell of a lot. 0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:37.030 It's been an oddly damp affair from what I gather 0:44:37.050 --> 0:44:39.370 from people who are there on the ground. There's this 0:44:39.430 --> 0:44:44.210 kind of strange unreality to it because the leader of 0:44:44.230 --> 0:44:46.390 the Conservative Party, Kemi Badenoch, has had a good couple 0:44:46.410 --> 0:44:50.210 of months. Reform, of course, their challenges on the right 0:44:50.230 --> 0:44:53.319 have been mired in scandal. Kemi Badenoch, her own personal 0:44:53.340 --> 0:44:55.779 approval ratings are quite good. At the same time, the 0:44:55.820 --> 0:44:58.660 Conservative Party is still a shadow of what it once 0:44:58.700 --> 0:45:00.580 was in the country, bumping around about 20% in the polls. 0:45:02.500 --> 0:45:05.200 And it doesn't seem like this party conference has really 0:45:05.239 --> 0:45:06.220 particularly moved the dial. 0:45:06.239 --> 0:45:07.200 Not that they do generally. 0:45:07.239 --> 0:45:10.750 There's been some gay subset piece speeches, a lot of 0:45:10.830 --> 0:45:13.790 half empty halls. I think it's a reminder that even 0:45:13.870 --> 0:45:17.110 though Nigel Farage has had a rough six months, to 0:45:17.130 --> 0:45:19.989 put it lightly. the kind of clearly that they had 0:45:20.010 --> 0:45:22.450 in the polls has diminished. Labour have come roaring back. 0:45:22.790 --> 0:45:25.530 They have been hit by these various scandals. The British 0:45:25.570 --> 0:45:29.509 public aren't exactly clamouring to welcome the Conservative Party back, 0:45:29.630 --> 0:45:32.750 given the 14 years of misrule, given what happened with immigration, 0:45:33.110 --> 0:45:34.669 given all of the betrayals that. 0:45:34.570 --> 0:45:35.290 Took place there. 0:45:35.469 --> 0:45:38.390 So it's, from what I gather, yes, a slightly odd 0:45:38.469 --> 0:45:40.730 affair in which a lot of the party faithful feel 0:45:40.750 --> 0:45:44.930 quite energised, but that feeling hasn't really been felt and 0:45:44.969 --> 0:45:46.180 mirrored in the country at this point. 0:45:46.560 --> 0:45:48.700 And if you get too caught up in that, sometimes 0:45:48.739 --> 0:45:50.730 it becomes very easy to lose sight of what is. 0:45:50.710 --> 0:45:52.310 Actually going on. 0:45:52.890 --> 0:45:57.029 Geoffrey Archer, of course, died yesterday at the age of 86. 0:45:57.030 --> 0:46:02.100 Renowned author, former politician, was jailed, of course, for perjury 0:46:02.120 --> 0:46:04.500 in a case he ran against the Daily Star when 0:46:04.520 --> 0:46:09.100 they published that he had paid for sex with a prostitute. 0:46:09.739 --> 0:46:13.140 He was a complicated man, I think you could very 0:46:13.300 --> 0:46:18.210 easily say, and yet managed to rebuild himself so many times. 0:46:18.330 --> 0:46:22.110 I mean, you would talk about Teflon people. Geoffrey Archer 0:46:22.150 --> 0:46:23.270 very much was one of them. 0:46:24.630 --> 0:46:27.970 No, that's absolutely true. Someone who lived a full life, 0:46:28.070 --> 0:46:31.090 to put it lightly, and someone who right up until 0:46:31.170 --> 0:46:34.589 his final days was publishing books. His new novel was 0:46:34.630 --> 0:46:36.549 due to come out, Adam and Eve. He was due 0:46:36.570 --> 0:46:39.109 to do events over the course of this week. So very, 0:46:39.150 --> 0:46:41.490 very sudden, but also a reminder that right up until 0:46:41.530 --> 0:46:44.000 the end, he was continuing to write, continuing to do 0:46:44.380 --> 0:46:46.959 what he loved, continuing to be a pretty gregarious character. Yes, 0:46:47.000 --> 0:46:50.540 there was scandal in his story, to put it very lightly. 0:46:50.640 --> 0:46:54.299 I mean, that was a political scandal of the sorts 0:46:54.320 --> 0:46:57.319 that we don't really see anymore. But at the risk 0:46:57.360 --> 0:47:00.100 of making light of what were very serious charges and 0:47:00.140 --> 0:47:03.029 things that really kind of called into question the moral 0:47:03.050 --> 0:47:05.490 fibre of the man. This is the kind of character 0:47:05.530 --> 0:47:08.700 that British politics, I dare say, doesn't really produce anymore, 0:47:09.260 --> 0:47:12.620 that you can have someone who has a life after politics, 0:47:12.680 --> 0:47:16.560 who isn't just a kind of someone who matriculates through 0:47:16.600 --> 0:47:18.640 being a kind of political advisor to being an MP, 0:47:18.660 --> 0:47:23.270 to being a leading minister, or in his case, deputy 0:47:23.310 --> 0:47:27.310 chairman of the Conservative Party, because we seem to weed 0:47:27.450 --> 0:47:30.190 out any characters, dare I say, or weed out anyone 0:47:30.560 --> 0:47:32.739 who might have more to give than purely on the 0:47:32.780 --> 0:47:35.160 level of policy, as he definitely proved, not with his trial, 0:47:35.180 --> 0:47:38.650 but certainly with his writing career afterwards. So, yes, a 0:47:39.030 --> 0:47:40.890 big loss to British public life, even if he was 0:47:41.469 --> 0:47:44.110 someone who came with his fair share of scandal, to 0:47:44.130 --> 0:47:44.670 put it lightly. 0:47:45.110 --> 0:47:47.410 As I said last night, a colourful character, I think 0:47:47.450 --> 0:47:49.609 we could call him. Tom Slater, thank you for your time. 0:47:50.650 --> 0:47:51.160 No problem at all. 0:47:52.520 --> 0:47:53.360 Late debate, not. 0:47:53.300 --> 0:47:55.279 Far away, just on the other side of this, but 0:47:55.340 --> 0:47:56.600 I will be back in a moment. 0:47:56.620 --> 0:47:57.040 Don't go away. 0:48:02.200 --> 0:48:05.760 Today was the funeral for young Mia Ley, the constable 0:48:05.800 --> 0:48:09.180 who was killed in Sydney at the end of last 0:48:09.260 --> 0:48:12.280 month in a high-speed crash. Listening to some of it today, 0:48:12.300 --> 0:48:14.979 it is just harrowing. He was her father, Clem. 0:48:16.320 --> 0:48:18.290 As a dad, I would give anything to hold you 0:48:18.370 --> 0:48:21.730 one more time to tell you how incredibly proud of 0:48:21.750 --> 0:48:26.350 the woman, the daughter, the sister and the police officer 0:48:26.450 --> 0:48:26.990 he became. 0:48:28.370 --> 0:48:30.550 And her partner, Daniel, who she met in the force. 0:48:31.560 --> 0:48:33.640 I was planning to propose to Mia on our holiday 0:48:33.680 --> 0:48:36.259 to Fiji in a couple of weeks, but somehow she 0:48:36.280 --> 0:48:40.969 already knew and had told everyone. She often said to me, 0:48:40.989 --> 0:48:42.950 you know, I'm always going to say yes, so hurry 0:48:43.010 --> 0:48:45.830 up and ask me already. I wish I had Mia. 0:48:47.270 --> 0:48:52.010 It's just so heartbreaking, and I don't mind saying, driving 0:48:52.090 --> 0:48:54.670 in this afternoon, I was listening to that on the 0:48:54.710 --> 0:48:58.319 radio and I cried because love is such a rare thing. 0:48:59.010 --> 0:49:01.049 And to find it and to enjoy it is such 0:49:01.090 --> 0:49:03.549 a beautiful thing. And to have it taken away from 0:49:03.570 --> 0:49:06.520 you in that way just must be so awful. 0:49:07.040 --> 0:49:09.350 Thank you for joining me tonight. Up next, the late debate. 0:49:09.390 --> 0:49:09.710 Good night.