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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, November eighteen, twenty twenty five. Australia has no

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Speaker 1: choice but to work with China, and that means we

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Speaker 1: need to build our defenses against potential Chinese disinformation, interference

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Speaker 1: and cyber attacks. That's the read from Foreign Minister Penny Wong.

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Speaker 1: Wong says China is seeking to reshape our region according

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Speaker 1: to its own interests, but is not sabotaging or destabilizing

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Speaker 1: like Russia, Iran or North Korea. Is Susan Lee about

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Speaker 1: to lose the Liberal leadership? And if she does, would

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Speaker 1: Andrew Hasty be the man to replace her? He's a

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Speaker 1: conservative now being supported by more and more moderates. So

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Speaker 1: should they be careful what they wish for? And what

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Speaker 1: should voters know about this? Ex M Mando, who's famous

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Speaker 1: for going his own way. That's today's episode. In October,

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Speaker 1: Andrew Hasty, one of the most intriguing and bright talents

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Speaker 1: of the Liberal Party, quit the front bench, and if

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Speaker 1: you observe politics, you'll know that's often the precursor to

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Speaker 1: a tilt at the leadership, retreating to the back bench

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Speaker 1: for a little while to gather your forces. Jeff Chambers

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Speaker 1: is The Australian's political editor. Andrew Hasty is a military man,

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Speaker 1: and I'm very interested in his tactics. But I wonder

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Speaker 1: if that's too simplistic a read of what happened to

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Speaker 1: him in October twenty twenty five. Why did he quit

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Speaker 1: the front bench.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think immediately after such a devastating defeat suffered

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Speaker 2: at the May three election, there's a lot of soul

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Speaker 2: searching that was going on Susan Lee. It's pretty obvious

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Speaker 2: now before polling day had sort of already started making

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Speaker 2: her moves and as the deputy leader, was always going

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Speaker 2: to be in a bit of an ascended position. So

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Speaker 2: it was no great surprise that you had a divided

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Speaker 2: Conservative faction. So you were left with a really young

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Speaker 2: rump of Conservatives who are trying to find their way.

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Speaker 2: And Andrew Hasty certainly didn't rule out that he had

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Speaker 2: very strong leadership ambitions. Now I reported at the time,

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Speaker 2: and I think this was a mistake that Susan Lee

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Speaker 2: has made that's been proven now to be a fatal mistake.

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Speaker 2: Andrew Hasty was harboring ambition to have a serious economic

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Speaker 2: or social portfolio. He's seen that Peter Dutton had been

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Speaker 2: typecast as a hard man, someone that just talks about security,

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Speaker 2: and he was desperate to get out of that.

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Speaker 3: I believe that net zero is going to be a

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Speaker 3: tragedy for our country. I believe that ned Eberse's migration

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Speaker 3: is far too high, slocking young strains out of the

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Speaker 3: howdy market. I believe that families they are doing it

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Speaker 3: too tough at the moment. So something's going to change.

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Speaker 3: And I'm simply during this policy development phase, building principal

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Speaker 3: positions where I think we should go.

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Speaker 2: So what did they do? They decided to give him

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Speaker 2: the Home Affairs portfolio. And not only did they do that,

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Speaker 2: they put Paul Scarr, a moderate backer of Susan Lee,

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Speaker 2: in his immigration and the tipping point for Andrew Hasty

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Speaker 2: was when he realized that when it came to the

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Speaker 2: formation of immigration policy, which is key, that he would

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Speaker 2: not have the say despite being notionally the senior shadow

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Speaker 2: minister as Home Affairs shadow spokesperson, So that was a

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Speaker 2: real driving point for him. He's obviously got people in

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Speaker 2: his ear, both MPs and serious Conservative campaigners outside the

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Speaker 2: building who believe that him and Just Enterprise are the

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Speaker 2: future of the party. I don't think it's adie surprise

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Speaker 2: to Susan Lee and her team that Andrew Hasty is

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Speaker 2: now emerging as a very likely successor to her.

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Speaker 1: Susan Lee appears to be digging in at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Is Andrew Hasty the kind of person who would mount

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Speaker 1: a challenge or is he going to sit back and

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Speaker 1: wait for something to happen.

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Speaker 2: Look, Andrew Hasty understands that he still has a bit

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Speaker 2: of work to do on the policy front and explaining

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Speaker 2: to Australians where he sits on really key areas. Now,

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Speaker 2: he was a big driver to dump net zero. They

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Speaker 2: got to that point last week him and Angus Taylor

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Speaker 2: marched into the party room side by side with Just

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Speaker 2: Enterprice on the other side. Now, both Andrew Hasty and

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Speaker 2: Angus Taylor's positions are that that's a big result for

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Speaker 2: the Conservatives. It sort of shows that they're flexing their

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Speaker 2: muscle again, that they have the numbers and they want

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Speaker 2: to give Susan Lee genuinely some time to sell this policy.

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Speaker 2: And Susan Lee is not going to die wondering she's

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Speaker 2: out there doing dozens of interviews, press conferences. Now you've

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Speaker 2: got Susan Lee out there very heavily promoting what was

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Speaker 2: really a conservative led push to dump net zero. That

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Speaker 2: means she's abandoned the people that gave her the job,

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Speaker 2: the moderates and the center right faction. So I think

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Speaker 2: ultimately both Andrew and Angus, who are the national Conservative

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Speaker 2: candidates who have the numbers behind them, their ideal outcome

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Speaker 2: is that Susan Lee is given the summer to try

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Speaker 2: and sell net zero, but also to land a strong position,

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Speaker 2: a clear position on immigration and where those migration numbers

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Speaker 2: should be. And for Andrew Hasty, he actually sees immigration

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Speaker 2: as being a much bigger issue out there in the

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Speaker 2: electorate than net zero.

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Speaker 4: I'm Australian and I want to channel what a lot

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Speaker 4: of regular Austrains are thinking out there, and we're just

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Speaker 4: sick and tired of seeing these ancient hatreds spill out

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Speaker 4: on to our streets. This is Australia, all of us,

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Speaker 4: who our citizens, have obligations to our country, to our values,

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Speaker 4: and we don't want to see these hatreds imported to

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Speaker 4: our country.

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Speaker 2: So I think that whoever does take the coalition to

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Speaker 2: the next selection. Wants to have these platforms laid down

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Speaker 2: very early so they can go out and sell.

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Speaker 1: It's an interesting choice for moderates. Of course, you can

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Speaker 1: tell just by listening to Andrew Hasty that he's a

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Speaker 1: highly intelligent, good looking, respectable war hero. Any party would

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Speaker 1: want him in a senior position. But he does have

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Speaker 1: views that those moderates who are worried about the future

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Speaker 1: of the Liberal Party thanks to the erosion of votes

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Speaker 1: to the Tiel candidates, would not agree with. He's extremely

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Speaker 1: skeptical about high levels of immigration. He's got concerns about abortion.

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Speaker 1: He was an opponent of same sex marriage. Do you

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Speaker 1: think the moderates who are supporting hase to accept those

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Speaker 1: views and understand that the party needs to be more

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Speaker 1: centrist or what is he just the better the devil

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Speaker 1: they know?

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of games being played, some

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Speaker 2: nefarious plots, and there is a lot of emotion at

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Speaker 2: the moment for the moderates. They've come to the realization

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Speaker 2: that the leader they elevated has abandoned them, that they

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Speaker 2: don't have the numbers now in the party room, so

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Speaker 2: they have to lick their wounds. I think what we're

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Speaker 2: seeing is a small number of moderates privately briefing out

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Speaker 2: that Hasty would probably be their preferred option. And I

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Speaker 2: think there's two trains of thoughts. One is it's signaling

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Speaker 2: to say they don't one Angus Taylor. The other one

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Speaker 2: is that they're trying to go Andrew Hasty into going

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Speaker 2: trying to spill the leadership and take it on, maybe prematurely,

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Speaker 2: and that if things don't go well, then they might

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Speaker 2: have an alternative. My understanding would be that Ethan the

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Speaker 2: Alberinezi and he's seeing your team, would look at Angus

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Speaker 2: Taylor and say we've got his measure. They already know

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Speaker 2: that they have Susan Lee's measure, and then you know,

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Speaker 2: if Tim Wilson pops up as a potential compromise candidate,

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Speaker 2: I think they believe that have his measure. So I

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Speaker 2: think Andrew Hasty sort of looms as this wild card

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Speaker 2: figure which could go spectacularly wrong. It could go okay,

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Speaker 2: or it could go very right.

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Speaker 1: The Albanezy government's just been re elected with a huge mandate.

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Speaker 1: It is a difficult road to tread for anyone who

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Speaker 1: is trying to lead an opposition against that government. Is

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Speaker 1: this the right time do you think for Andrew Hasty

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Speaker 1: to try and take the leadership if he's someone who

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Speaker 1: does ultimately want to be Prime minister and win elections.

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Speaker 2: Look, I don't think that anyone believed it would go

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Speaker 2: this badly for Susan Lee this quickly. When you look

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Speaker 2: at the polling in News poll the Coalition down to

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Speaker 2: a record low of twenty four percent in terms of

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Speaker 2: primary vote. One nation is surging. So it's sort of

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Speaker 2: proper come on a bit sooner than someone like Andrew

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Speaker 2: Hasty would have wanted it to come on. And then

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Speaker 2: he's got the other issue that him and his supporters

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Speaker 2: would have to resolve, which is to unite the conservative

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Speaker 2: faction behind him. So there has been talked that could

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Speaker 2: this be a three leader scenario. Could it be Susan

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Speaker 2: Lee Angus Taylor than Andrew Hasty. I think at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, if the opportunity is there, he

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Speaker 2: will go for it. He certainly doesn't want to do

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Speaker 2: this in some sort of dirty deal with the Moderates.

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Speaker 2: He wants his own faction that have the numbers to

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Speaker 2: get in hard behind.

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Speaker 1: Him coming up. So who is Andrew Hasty? Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about who Andrew Hasty is and what he believes in.

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Speaker 1: He was born in Wangaratta in Victoria. Mum was a teacher,

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Speaker 1: dad was a pastor, Presbyterian pastor. He went to Scott's

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Speaker 1: College in Sydney, a famous Presbyterian school, and then after

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Speaker 1: starting an arts degree, quickly decided that his future lay

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Speaker 1: in the Defense Force. What motivated that change for him.

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Speaker 2: At the age of nineteen while he was at university

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Speaker 2: after the September eleventh terror attacks in America that motivated

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Speaker 2: a young Andrew Hasty to commit himself to service with

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Speaker 2: the ADF and he joined the SAS and then obviously

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Speaker 2: did several tours of duty over in the Middle East.

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Speaker 2: So the Christian upbringing, very very devout Christian upbringing type

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Speaker 2: family unit and then entering the Defense Force at a

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Speaker 2: young age very much has built the core values for

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Speaker 2: Andrew Hasty. Then he came in at the twenty fifteen

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Speaker 2: Canning by election as a young family guy and you know,

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Speaker 2: he's got a few young kids and that's a juggle.

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Speaker 2: It's always really hard for a Perth or Western Australian

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Speaker 2: based parliamentarian to lead a party. So I think that

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Speaker 2: in a way has probably potentially held him back, but

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Speaker 2: he's still only forty three. It's a really young age.

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Speaker 2: But in politics, ambition is everything, and you've got to

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Speaker 2: think that potentially you don't have all the time in

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Speaker 2: the world. So I think that's a real motivator for

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Speaker 2: Andrew Hasty.

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Speaker 1: In talking about his political philosophy, I think maybe you

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Speaker 1: could sum it up as common sense. Andrew Hasty has

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Speaker 1: said that he believes that the liberals need to stop

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Speaker 1: talking about factions and philosophies and neoliberalism or traditional conservatism

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Speaker 1: and just start offering common sense solutions to Australians who

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Speaker 1: want to raise their families and have sustainable jobs. He's

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Speaker 1: sometimes dismissed, I think as a populist, but he seems

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Speaker 1: to also take lines on issues that are not necessarily popular.

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Speaker 1: For example, he spoke out about the Ben Robert Smith

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Speaker 1: defamation case, another commando who had been accused of committing

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Speaker 1: war crimes and deformation action. Andrew Hasty gave evidence essentially

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Speaker 1: against Ben Robert Smith and then spoke out after the

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Speaker 1: trial saying that he was in support of the other

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Speaker 1: military officers who had given evidence against Robert Smith. He

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Speaker 1: said that Australia needed a warrior culture, but soldiers also

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Speaker 1: needed to not commit murder.

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Speaker 4: This is not about left or right. It's not about

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Speaker 4: woke or unwoke. It's not about one media corporation versus another.

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Speaker 4: It's not about toxic masculinity or any other gender take.

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Speaker 4: In the end, it's a simple question of morality. It's

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Speaker 4: versus wrong. It's the rule of law versus the rule

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Speaker 4: of the jungle. And to put it very simply, Australian

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Speaker 4: soldiers do not execute non combatants who have been taken

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Speaker 4: as prisoners.

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Speaker 1: It would have been a lot easier for him just

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Speaker 1: to stay quiet about that because there are powerful people

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Speaker 1: in WA who supported Ben Robert Smith and continue to

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Speaker 1: do so. What do you think is his philosophy, Jeff,

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Speaker 1: what guides in?

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Speaker 2: I think that his philosophy is still evolving. He takes

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Speaker 2: some interesting positions and this is why some of the

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Speaker 2: labor think tanks are interested in him, because he's got

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Speaker 2: a lot of AWU members in his electorate and he's

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Speaker 2: actually stood up beside them, fighting on the same issues

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Speaker 2: that they are fighting for. So that makes him a

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Speaker 2: bit of a wild card in that sense. He's very

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Speaker 2: black and white in some of his views which is

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Speaker 2: not a bad thing in politics because the criticism of

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Speaker 2: many recent leaders and politicians is that they flip flop

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Speaker 2: depending on what the polling says or the focus group says.

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Speaker 2: There's plenty of people that says, well, it's time for

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Speaker 2: generational change, and there's a lot of support for Andrew

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Speaker 2: Hasty and just into Price out there amongst conservatives, and

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Speaker 2: those Conservatives are just currently splittered across a bunch of

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Speaker 2: different minor parties or one nation. So could he be

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Speaker 2: with Jainda Price and others the future of a Conservative

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Speaker 2: Liberal party.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Chambers is The Australian's Political editor. You can read

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Speaker 1: all his reporting and analysis, plus all the latest from

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Speaker 1: Canberra right now at the Australian dot com dot au