Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, February twelve. Donald Trump says Anthony Albanezi is
Speaker 1: a very fine man, and he's considering an exemption for
Speaker 1: Australia from his new twenty five percent tariff on steel
Speaker 1: and aluminium. But the President's Executive Order accuses Australia of
Speaker 1: disregarding its promise to keep aluminium exports to a reasonable level.
Speaker 1: To unpack what that means and what happens now, check
Speaker 1: out all our reporting and analysis of this big story
Speaker 1: right now at the Australian dot com dot a U.
Speaker 1: Former ABC chair Ititebatrose says she didn't want casual ABC
Speaker 1: presenter Antoinette Lettouf sacked, but she was concerned Latouf was
Speaker 1: an activist who didn't live up to the ABC's responsibility
Speaker 1: to be impartial. On Tuesday, the eighty three year old
Speaker 1: doyenne of Australian Media locked horns with a barrister for
Speaker 1: Latouf in the Federal Court where she's suing the ABC
Speaker 1: for unfair dismissal. Today, the best bits before we begin,
Speaker 1: a quick note, we've used voice actors throughout this episode
Speaker 1: to bring you the words spoken in Court. Ota Buttros
Speaker 1: is one of the grand old ladies of Australian media.
Speaker 2: Sat state your occupation for the Court.
Speaker 3: I'm a journalist.
Speaker 1: Buttrose was the first female editor of an Australian newspaper
Speaker 1: at the Daily and Sunday Telegraphs. She was editor of
Speaker 1: Cleo and the Australian Women's Weekly. Cold Chisel wrote a
Speaker 1: song about her regular TV ads for the stories she
Speaker 1: was working on. From twenty nineteen to twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: Buttros was chair of the ABC and that's why she's
Speaker 1: in court being cross examined about the National Broadcaster's scandal
Speaker 1: of the moment, the sacking of casual presenter Antoinette Latouf.
Speaker 1: Buttros was cross examined by Council for Latouf Philip Boncado. Buttrose,
Speaker 1: who's just celebrated her eighty third birthday and was sitting
Speaker 1: in a wheelchair wearing a Royal blue suit, was giving
Speaker 1: him nothing.
Speaker 4: Leaving aside dramatic cases, in the ordinary case of things,
Speaker 4: you would expect if an employee of the ABC had
Speaker 4: been alleged to have breached a policy that before they
Speaker 4: were taken off air they were fired, they would get
Speaker 4: a right of hearing.
Speaker 3: I don't understand the question.
Speaker 4: Your expectation was, whilst you were chair that if an
Speaker 4: employee of the ABC had been alleged to have breached
Speaker 4: a policy of the ABC before a disciplinary sanction was
Speaker 4: imposed on them, your view was that they would be
Speaker 4: afforded procedural fairness.
Speaker 3: That's a hypothetical question and I can't answer it.
Speaker 4: Want to take a stab at it.
Speaker 1: No, Buttro said when Latouf was on air, she received
Speaker 1: many emails.
Speaker 3: I observed that the letter writers felt we were not
Speaker 3: being impartial, and I was concerned about what that would
Speaker 3: do for the ABC's reputation.
Speaker 4: Did you infer that there was a campaign against miss Latouf?
Speaker 3: No, I didn't. Compared to the complaints we got about
Speaker 3: our coverage of King Charles the Third's coronation, this was
Speaker 3: a very small matter.
Speaker 4: Did you infer from them that the complainants wanted Miss
Speaker 4: Latouf removed from air?
Speaker 3: They wanted to know why she had a program because
Speaker 3: they didn't perceive her to be impartial. All I cared
Speaker 3: about was whether we were being in impartial or whether
Speaker 3: we were not. We'd upset a lot of people.
Speaker 4: Because you would engage someone who was critical of the
Speaker 4: Israeli government.
Speaker 3: Who was not impartial? What was not.
Speaker 4: Impartial about the point of view she was presenting, Miss Buttros.
Speaker 3: I think in relation to the Israel Gaza conflict, she
Speaker 3: was an activist.
Speaker 4: That is, she was advocating for the rights of the
Speaker 4: Palestinian people. Is that your evidence?
Speaker 3: Her view one way or the other was not my concern.
Speaker 3: My concern was that we were not being impartial.
Speaker 1: Buttro said Managing Director David Anderson had asked her to
Speaker 1: forward the complaints to ABC Chief Content Officer Chris Oliver Taylor.
Speaker 3: He wanted him to learn the folly of not checking
Speaker 3: the references of someone that we'd hired.
Speaker 1: Bolcado wanted to know why, Buttro's kept using the same word.
Speaker 4: Has someone told you to continue telling the court your
Speaker 4: concern was impartiality?
Speaker 3: No, I don't need to be told what I think.
Speaker 3: That's my own view.
Speaker 4: You don't support the hiring of activists of any cause
Speaker 4: on the ABC, do you?
Speaker 3: No? I don't.
Speaker 4: Weren't you interested to find out whether Miss Latoufe was
Speaker 4: in fact a pro Palestinian activist? No, didn't concern you. Nope,
Speaker 4: you knew she was Lebanese, though didn't you.
Speaker 3: No, I didn't. I didn't know what she was. People's
Speaker 3: color doesn't really worry me at all.
Speaker 1: Long before the ABC hired her for five days of
Speaker 1: casual work in December twenty twenty three, Anteinette Leatouf had
Speaker 1: been loud and clear about the Israel Palestine issue on
Speaker 1: social media.
Speaker 3: You can and.
Speaker 5: Should condemn both Hummas and Israel's government. Both are extremists.
Speaker 5: You can and should mourn.
Speaker 1: Civilian deaths visa posts on TikTok from October and November
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, before her December shifts on ABC Sydney
Speaker 1: local radio.
Speaker 5: Not about all sides.
Speaker 3: You can and should know.
Speaker 5: It's a war crime to cut off food, water and
Speaker 5: electricity to women, babies, and the elderly. Number two pretend
Speaker 5: to be hearing in paired when all major human rights
Speaker 5: organizations speak. Allow me to demonstrate apartheid, A party for
Speaker 5: five that sounds like they're having funn in Gaza, jenocide,
Speaker 5: Tanna side, Well, that's a new sport, is it.
Speaker 1: In November twenty twenty three, Latoof explained on TikTok why
Speaker 1: she'd signed a petition calling on journalists to do better for.
Speaker 5: Me as an independent and freelance journalist. Nobody can fire me,
Speaker 5: and so I will certainly.
Speaker 1: She said she was shocked that one media organization had
Speaker 1: told journalists who'd signed the petition they couldn't report on
Speaker 1: the war directly.
Speaker 5: So if they don't want to work with me because
Speaker 5: I have voiced concerns about all of those things, then
Speaker 5: honestly fuck them.
Speaker 1: In December twenty twenty three, Latouf, whom the ABC says
Speaker 1: had been identified as part of their bid to increase
Speaker 1: the diversity of on air talent, began her five day
Speaker 1: fill in stint on ABC Radio Sydney. Latoof says she
Speaker 1: understood the brief of the show to be bright and breezy,
Speaker 1: cats and Christmas puddings. Three days into her shift, Latouf
Speaker 1: posted this on Instagram. We've used a voice actor Human
Speaker 1: Rights Watch reporting starvation as a tool of war. After
Speaker 1: that post, Latouf was told she wouldn't need to show
Speaker 1: up for the final two days of the stint, although
Speaker 1: she was paid. She took legal action for unfair dismissal,
Speaker 1: and although the ABC initially denied she had been sacked,
Speaker 1: the Fair Work Commission found she had in fact been dismissed.
Speaker 1: Attempts at mediation failed, and the matters wound up in
Speaker 1: a federal court, where Latouf is seeking redress for unfair
Speaker 1: dismissal in the federal court. ABC executives has spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time trying to explain why that post in
Speaker 1: December twenty twenty three was a problem. They've said they
Speaker 1: told Latouf not to post anything controversial or anything relating
Speaker 1: to the Israel Gaza conflict. Latouf has said her understanding
Speaker 1: was different. She thought the ABC didn't want her to
Speaker 1: be partisan or to take a side, but the posting
Speaker 1: factual information would be fine. She said the Human Rights
Speaker 1: Watch story had been reported by the ABC and BBC,
Speaker 1: and therefore she thought it would be okay.
Speaker 3: I have a whole clutch more complaints. Can't she come
Speaker 3: down with flu or COVID or a stomach upset? We
Speaker 3: owe her nothing.
Speaker 1: That's an email sent by Eite Buttrose to managing director
Speaker 1: David Anderson in December twenty twenty three, when they were
Speaker 1: debating what should be done with Latouff. Boncado wanted to
Speaker 1: know if Buttrose was wishing for Latouf to become unwell.
Speaker 3: That was just a face saving idea. I thought it
Speaker 3: might have been an idea for Antoinette to save face.
Speaker 3: It's an easy way to save face.
Speaker 4: Can I just say to you, you've given that evidence
Speaker 4: today because you know the content of that email is appalling.
Speaker 3: You can suggest whatever you like, but it's not true.
Speaker 1: Coming up, the ABC has backflipped on a controversial element
Speaker 1: of its defense. Antoinete Latouf's complaint says she was unfairly
Speaker 1: sacked because of either her political views, her race as
Speaker 1: a Lebanese Arab person of Middle Eastern descent, or a
Speaker 1: combination of both. Discrimination. In other words, one of the
Speaker 1: ABC's defenses was that this was untrue and that the
Speaker 1: question of whether a Lebanese Arab or Middle Eastern race
Speaker 1: even existed was a complex, multifaceted question of fact. The
Speaker 1: ABC said in documents filed with the court, Miss Latouf
Speaker 1: has led no evidence of any relevant fact that kicked
Speaker 1: off a fresh stink, especially within the ABC, where about
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty employees who are union members demanded
Speaker 1: the ABC drop the defense. One prominent ABC presenter Jan Fran,
Speaker 1: who's also of Lebanese descent, said this on her own
Speaker 1: social media.
Speaker 6: But these lawyers are not just defending some they're defending
Speaker 6: the ABC, and the ABC is required to be what's
Speaker 6: called a model litigant because it's a government body, and
Speaker 6: that means it's expected to behave in exemplary fashion, and arguably.
Speaker 2: Is this exemplary.
Speaker 1: In court on Tuesday, there was a change of heart.
Speaker 1: Here's what the ABC's lawyer, I Neil sc told the
Speaker 1: Federal Court, as read by a voice actor.
Speaker 2: We are now instructed as follows. The ABC does not
Speaker 2: put an issue. That is, it does not dispute or
Speaker 2: contest that the Lebanese, Middle Eastern or Arab races exist
Speaker 2: or that Miss Latouf is one or more of those races.
Speaker 1: The ABC put up a statement on its website soon after.
Speaker 7: The ABC recognizes that regrettably this legal argument has caused
Speaker 7: distress in some sections of the community and our workforce.
Speaker 7: This was not the ABC's intention. The ABC does, however,
Speaker 7: deny that any action was taken against Miss Latouf because
Speaker 7: of her political opinion, race, or national extraction.
Speaker 1: At the end of Buttrose's evidence, Boncado asked if she
Speaker 1: wanted Latouf fired.
Speaker 4: No, you sought to do that because of her views
Speaker 4: on Israel. No, I didn't because of her views on
Speaker 4: Israel's war on Gaza.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 4: Because she was a pro Palestinian activist.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 4: And because she supported the human rights of Palestinians.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 4: The evidence you have given in respect of those denials
Speaker 4: is untrue.
Speaker 3: I have told the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Speaker 1: The case continues on Wednesday. You can follow it live
Speaker 1: plus all the best analysis and news from the world
Speaker 1: of media any time at the Australian dot com dot
Speaker 1: a u