WEBVTT - What the major parties are offering on Indigenous affairs 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:09.680 From Schwartz Media. I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM. 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:13.119 At one point during this term of government, Indigenous affairs 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:17.680 dominated national debate. Politicians, pundits in the public couldn't stop 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:21.560 talking about it. But after the Voice referendum failed, it 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.599 became something of a taboo. Labor is keen to move 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:28.000 on and the Coalition is focused on scoring points, not 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.760 offering a plan. Now, with the election weeks away, there 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.839 are glimpses of what might come next. Labour says it's 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:38.760 all about delivering jobs. The Coalition says it's all about 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:44.519 cutting waste. Today contributor for the Saturday Paper, Ben Abbotangelo 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.599 or what the major parties are really offering and what 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.400 it all means for First Nations people around the country. 0:00:54.840 --> 0:01:05.080 It's Saturday, April nineteen been. Indigenous affairs has more or 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.560 less formed by the way side since the referendum. What 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:10.720 since do you get from both sides as to how 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:13.200 they rate it as a priority at this election? 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:15.839 Yeah, I mean to answer this, I just go straight 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:17.320 to their election platform. 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:18.720 So if we think back to the. 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:23.039 Prior election, you know, Labor was really forthright with their 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:27.160 policy platform, specifically for Indigenous affairs. It started with their 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:31.080 commitment to implement the Ullerra Statement from the Heart in full. 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:35.040 I begin by acknowledging the traditional owners that the land 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:39.080 on which we meet, I pay my respect to their elders, past, 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:43.520 present and emerging, and on behalf of the Australian Labor Party, 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.360 I commit to the Ularus Statement from the Heart and. 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:50.800 Hole work towards closing the gap. Abolish the punitive community 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:55.000 development program, improve housing, invest in First Nations management of 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.880 land and waters, strengthen First Nations economic and job opportunities, 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:01.279 and get rid of the private tires, cash list, debit 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:05.160 cub So their platform ahead of the last election was 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:09.359 really forthright, really transparent, and if you don't go into 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:11.919 the detail of it, a neutral observer would look at 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:16.160 it as pretty aspirational. Now ahead of this election, if 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:21.240 you go to Labour's platform, Indigenous affairs, Aboriginal people, just 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:25.560 anything to do with that portfolio is completely missing. There 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:27.920 is nothing on the flip side of that. 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:28.280 You know. 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:33.400 The coalition's approach to Indigenous affairs is much like yesteryear. 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:37.120 It is consistent with I suppose how they approached the referendum, 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.560 and that is from my vantage point or analysis, is 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:42.680 to punish our Aboriginal people. 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:47.240 We have serious allegations of both corrupt and criminal behavior. 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:51.320 Yes they are denied, but we need to ensure that 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.800 this is taxpayers money that is being spent appropriately. 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:59.040 And if you look at the coalition's plan, it is 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.080 you know, under taking a full audit of government programs 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.399 and expenditure into indigenous affairs. 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.520 And isn't it refreshing though as well to have Peter 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:11.320 Dutton as the alternative Prime Minister of this country and 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.560 Senator justinternam for jimber Price as the alternative Minister for 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.760 Indigenous Australians for the first time standing up and saying 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:23.560 if we get elected to government Andrew, we will demand accountability. 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.000 It's launching a Royal Commission into sexual abuse in Indigenous communities, 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:32.359 which is again not to actually tackle the challenges that 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.680 many of our communities face, but it is to demonize them. 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:40.760 Yes, that individualist type language that was applied to Aboriginal 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:43.960 communities in the leader to the intervention itself, and it 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.480 seems that since the referendums failure, that that rhetoric has 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:51.080 come back for political gain. We spoke to the Minister 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:56.160 for Indigenous Australians Melanderi McCarthy after the terrible result for 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.600 the Closing the Gap report that came out earlier this year, 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:05.000 she talked about Labour's new mantra, which is jobs, Jobs, Jobs. 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.280 You've been looking into what that actually means. So what 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:09.360 did you find, Ben? 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:14.520 Yeah, well, you know, Labour's commitment to abolishing the CDP 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.400 has been years in the making. That's the Community Development Program, 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:22.200 which was introduced by the Coalition in twenty fifteen. 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:26.919 Donovan is one of about fifteen thousand people nationwide forced 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:31.680 into the Community Development Program. Participants lose payments if they 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.040 don't attend for twenty five hours each week. 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.479 What it meant under the scheme was that remote Indigenous 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:42.360 people were offered a really simple choice. It is find 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:45.640 a job in places where they're often were none or 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.480 in definitely do work for the doll five hours a day, 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:52.160 five days a week, forty six weeks a year, year 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:56.719 after year, with the majority of that income then being managed. 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.080 Through the cash List debit card. 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.400 And they were to work for an hourly rate of 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.719 eleven dollars twenty which was well below that minimum wage 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.880 of eighteen dollars twenty nine, so it is punitive. It 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.680 is racist, it is akin to modern slavery, and it 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.120 has been the subject of multiple class actions and every 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.680 report that has been commissioned has indicated that it has 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:24.000 just created misery within the communities that it is purportedly 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.480 designed to lift up. So I suppose to round this 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.360 little piece out. Daniel on the history of the scheme 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:34.760 is that when participants withdrew their labor, their income support 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.400 was withdrawn under the mantra of the time of no work, 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.000 no pay. So if people in the desert had to 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.600 drive four hundred kilometers to the nearest major city or 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:47.800 center for a hospital appointment, for a doctor's appointment, for 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.760 sorry business, and they didn't attend the standing around that 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.000 was forced upon them because there was nothing really to 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:56.920 do in these regions, their welfare would be docked and 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.680 the cascading effects on the families magnified. 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.919 At least three hundred thousand penalties have been imposed in 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:11.040 two years, including for people away at medical appointments or funeral. 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:17.080 In twenty seventeen, Labor First committed to abolish the CDP. 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:18.760 When they're in opposition. 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.240 The Community Development program put in place by the current 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:30.640 government in remote communities is discriminatory punitive and ineffectual and 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:35.720 a shortened Labor government will abolish the current CDP and 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:37.400 replace it with a new program. 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:42.360 That commitment firmed head of the last election campaign, and 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.640 in the wake of the defeated referendum, it was the 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.640 first major policy announcement that they introduced. 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.160 As well as more remote housing, we're creating the new 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:57.440 Remote Jobs and Economic Development Program with three thousand new 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.680 jobs in remote Australia to build new skills and new 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:02.480 confidence within communities. 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:06.480 But what this Australian National Audit Office report has found 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:10.240 is that Labour's seven hundred and seven million dollar new 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:15.360 program Remote Jobs and Economic Development is basically comprising of 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:19.120 many of the same failures of yesteryear's. It is very 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.960 much aligned, at least from my perspective, Daniel, with a 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.320 lot of the neoliberal policy making that has dominated indigenous 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:26.400 affairs in yesteryear. 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.320 So tell me about that ben Labor replaced the CDP 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.360 with their own jobs program and now this audit report 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.080 has come out which assesses how effective their scheme is. 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:36.080 What did it say. 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:40.920 It spoke about the fact that when the program was 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:45.560 announced by Anthony Albanesi in February twenty twenty four that 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.280 the advice to the government to support that announcement was 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:53.560 just not clearly informed by evidence. Labour had promised to 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:57.000 develop a new program in partnership with First Nations people, 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.640 and on top of that, had spent the first two 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.920 years its term talking about the need to listen to 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.800 Aboriginal people in order to get better outcomes. But the 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:11.600 a ANDAO report found that the National Indigenous Australians Agency 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:16.840 hadn't actually established a governance structure to ensure that Indigenous 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.680 people were included in decision making until a month before 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:24.520 the Prime Minister announced the new program. So it's a 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:29.480 pretty scathing assessment. And if we were to think about 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:34.120 I suppose the expenditure items within the Indigenous Affairs portfolio, 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:36.679 this would have to be up there on the podium 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:39.480 as one of the most significant investments. 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.839 The a and AO report, when you take it in full, speaks. 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.280 To how this is another program that has largely been 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:54.640 conceived by bureaucrats top down and then hastily rushed together 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:58.920 and once again superimposed on these communities that I suppose 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.520 it really looking to bounce back from a couple of 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:07.359 decades of policies that have dispossessed, displaced and dehumanized. 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:08.720 These communities. 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.719 Coming up after the break the Coalition's plans in Indigenous. 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:26.480 Affairs Hi Ruby Jones. Here seven Am tells stories that 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.520 need to be told. Our journalism is founded on trust 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:34.080 and independence, and now we're increasing our coverage. Every Saturday 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.720 until the election will bring you an extra episode to 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.760 break down the biggest political moments of the week. If 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.160 you enjoy seven Am, the best way you can support 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.080 us is by making a contribution at seven am podcast 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:48.200 dot com dot are you forward slash support. Thanks for 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:49.920 listening and supporting our work. 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.200 Been The Coalition chalked up at Big Win with the 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:57.839 failure of the voice referredom. So what have we seen 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.400 since then? In terms of their vision for improving lives 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:01.400 of Aboriginal people. 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.600 The headline from the Coalition is practical solutions. You know, 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.719 we want to ensure that we are pursuing practical solutions 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:11.720 to improve the lives of Indigenous people. 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:16.520 My goal is the halt the pointless virtue signaling and 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:21.199 focus on the solutions that bring real change that changes 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:26.520 the lives of Australia's most vulnerable citizens, Solutions that give 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:27.760 them real lives. 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:28.320 You know. 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:31.480 I tried to probe Senator price On, I suppose you 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.600 know the coalitions what they mean when they talk about 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.800 practical solutions when it comes to Indigenous affairs, but she 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:42.360 never responded to those questions. She was clear that in 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:45.240 the sense that she believes, you know, Labour's new remote 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.880 jobs and Economic Development program is akin to a broken 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.360 election promise and that it's been hastily put together and 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.439 that there's still many missing pieces. She also said that 0:10:55.480 --> 0:11:00.280 they're committed to encouraging economic independence for Indigenous Australians through 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:05.679 the private sector and ensuring that a mutual obligations program 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:06.840 does exist. 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:09.840 So these are basically announcements. Have they actually put any 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.560 policies out to back up some of these announcements to 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.640 create jobs for First Nations people to private sector, private enterprise, 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:17.800 What does that actually mean in a policy sense? Do 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:19.800 we have any idea what the meat is on the 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:20.320 bone here? 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.160 There's no meat on the bone as far as I 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.040 can say, And this is what I've tried to probe. 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:29.160 All of the researchers found that mutual obligations and the 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:32.040 scheme that it sounds like the Coalition wants to revert 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:35.400 back to US costs five times as much per participant 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.800 as the mainstream Job Active program and twice as much 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.240 as the scheme it replaced, and as importantly that those 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:46.240 under mutual obligations also take longer to find work. So 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:50.480 it very much contradicts the narrative of efficiency that the 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:56.959 Coalition is running with and importantly also undermines their purported 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:02.200 commitment to practical solutions in alivation indigenous peoples, particularly in 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:03.400 remote and rural areas. 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:04.959 And I'll be. 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.160 Interested to get your perspective on this as well, Daniel, 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:09.120 but I think one key point is worth noting is 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:13.600 that there's a strategy behind I suppose putting Senator nappinginpro 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:18.119 Price as the de facto head of the government's magaspin 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:22.000 off of DOGE, the Department of Government Efficiency, and that 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.480 is to just position Indigenous affairs as a proxy, as 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:29.240 a battleground that they can wedge labor to. And the 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:33.360 expectation is that Senator Price will hold up Indigenous peoples 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:37.360 as a punching bag, and the Coalition party and it's 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.079 people who are out on the front line selling their message, 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.360 are able to just lay some cheap shots when it's 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:47.240 politically expedient and when they think, you know, it can 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.480 rally the base and be a motivated for their cause. 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:52.480 So that's kind of my lens on it, But I 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:54.760 know that you cover this heaps as well, Daniel. What's 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:58.240 your kind of take on the coalition stance for Indigenous affairs. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.160 Yeah, the strategy just down line proved to be very 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:03.719 effective for them, and it was the strategy they used 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.680 using Aboriginal people basically as a punching bag pointing to 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.280 waste in programs and in remote communities. When you look 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:15.160 across the entirety of government and society, the waste that 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:19.280 happens in Aboriginal communities is minuscule as a comparison. But 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:24.040 I think you're right the Coalition opposition is trying to 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:28.520 wedge labor out because of their success during the referendum, 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.120 But so far, my reading opposite, they haven't really been 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:35.480 able to lay any punches yet. Given the multitude of 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:41.240 issues facing Indigenous Australia, things like incarceration rates, life expectancies, 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:45.360 suicide rates, ostensibly the failure of the closure and the 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:49.040 gape of gender, what sense do you have of whether 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:53.000 either side really has a plan to address this devastating reality. 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.000 I don't know if there is, if there's ever been 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:56.679 a plan. 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.720 I feel as though that when you interrogate the detail 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.480 of what has been proposed, you know, throughout the last 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.760 couple of decades, nothing that I've seen that has been 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:12.400 put forward I can see being significant in the schemes 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:16.400 of closing the gap or you know, emancipating Indigenous peoples 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:20.000 from you know, the chronic illness and disease, the hopelessness 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:21.600 that you know exists. 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:22.520 In many of our communities. 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.920 It just feels like a kumbaya when the statistics continue 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.600 to show that mainstream communities continue to break away from 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.480 ours that you know, are very much stuck in the 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.040 recesses of a really violent past. 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.360 Ben, It's always very nourishing to talk with you. Thanks 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:44.640 for coming on seven Am again. 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:46.120 Thanks Daniel, always a pleasure. 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.760 Seven Am was a daily show from Sports Media and 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.840 The Saturday Paper. It's made by Attigus Bastow, Shane Anderson, 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:10.640 Christine Gate, Eric Jensen, Ruby Jones, Sarah mcveee, Travis Evans, 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:15.360 zom Vecchio and me Daniel James. Our theme music is 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:19.040 by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Portio. Thanks 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:29.480 for listening to seven AM. We'll see you Monday.