1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fear and Greed. Sunday feature are Michael Thompson. 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Every Wednesday, we release a sister podcast called How Do 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,120 Speaker 1: They Afford That, featuring me and financial planner Canna Campbell. 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: It is all about personal finance. It's about making your 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: money work harder for you. We cover everything from household 6 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: budgets to superannuation and investing in property. The episode that 7 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: I'm sharing with you today focuses on investing in equities 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: and in particular how Canna has counseled clients through times 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,319 Speaker 1: of volatility in the past, and obviously that is a 10 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: very much reflection of what we have seen over the 11 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: last couple of months. This is How Do They Afford That? 12 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy it. Welcome to How Do They 13 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: Afford That? The podcast that peaks into the financial lives 14 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: of everyday Australians. I'm Michael Thompson. I'm an author and 15 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: the co host of the podcast Fear and Greed Business 16 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: News and as always I'm with Canna Campbell, financial planner, 17 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: founder of Sugar Mama TV, the financial literacy platform covering 18 00:00:55,240 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: YouTube and podcast, books, Instagram, threads, TikTok, but more. If 19 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: there is a social media platform out there, you will 20 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: be on it. Kenna. Hello this Maks. 21 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: You sound like I'm like plastered everywhere. 22 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: Now, okay, you're more selective than that. I might have 23 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: misrepresented you, and I apologize. It's always great to start 24 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: the show with an apology, isn't it on a good note? 25 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: Great episode? 26 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: Well, it's a serious one today, and this is very serious. 27 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: I feel like we've now had too much kind of 28 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: fun frivolity. We've exceeded out fun quota already. No, it's 29 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: serious because we've seen some extraordinary volatility in markets this year. 30 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: We've had kind of huge swings one way then back 31 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: the other way. We saw it on the Australian share market, 32 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: it was even more pronounced on Wall Street in the US. 33 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: A lot of it was originating from tariffs announced by 34 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: the US President. But that was just one incident, right. 35 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: We have had plenty of market volatility before, kind of 36 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: major drops like the GFC or the pandemic, plenty of 37 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: other smaller peaks and troughs and movement in markets. So 38 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: today I wanted to get a feel for how you 39 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: coach clients as a financial planner through market volatility, because 40 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: it is something that we have seen in the past 41 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: and will see again in the future. It is obviously 42 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: very important with this episode to understand that everything that 43 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: we are talking about is not financial advice. This is 44 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: for general education purposes only. If you hear something that 45 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: you go, oh okay, maybe that's worth considering, then please 46 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: get some professional financial advice that is tailored to your 47 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: circumstances because we do not know what they are. 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: That is so incredibly important. Hopefully everyone knows that and 49 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: takes that seriously. 50 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: Now, when markets are swinging wildly and your phone rings 51 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: and it is a client who is worried and this 52 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: has happened before, right absolutely, and they are worried, they 53 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: are probably almost verging on panic. What do you say 54 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: to them? 55 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: I say, take a deep breath in through the nose, 56 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: out through the investment anxiety. 57 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: And does that work? 58 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: Yes? 59 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: Oh okay, just having someone tell you to calm down 60 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: actually does help. 61 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: Well, the worst thing you can say to someone's calmed down. 62 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I realized that as I said it, deep. 63 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 2: Breath, So I then remind them once we've taken out, 64 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: you know, three deeper. We call them rainbow breaths. Really, yes, 65 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 2: a rainbow breath. 66 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: I have never heard the term. I will describe to 67 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: you for anybody listening what you were doing. You were 68 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: taking deep breaths and you are kind of flapping your 69 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: arms about wildly like a chicken. 70 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: It's very effective. Once you've done a rainbow breath in 71 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: through the nose out through the investment anxiety. I then 72 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 2: remind them to revisit the reason why they came to 73 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: see me in the first place. Why do they start investing, 74 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: and what are their long term goals? Now with my 75 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: investment philosophy, you know, as a financial planner, and obviously 76 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: is sugar mammo, it's all about passive income and you know, 77 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: drawing on that reliable income stream, you know, for your 78 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 2: eventual retirement. And we're not here to try and turn 79 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars into one hundred thousand dollars overnight. So 80 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: you know, I'll come back to then some factual questions. Okay, well, 81 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 2: what are your goals and are we planning on retiring tomorrow? 82 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 2: And obviously the answer is no, So then we know 83 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: that we've got time ahead of us. And then after 84 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 2: that I'll ask them to look at focusing their fear 85 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 2: to the actual facts of the matter, you know, reviewing 86 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 2: the portfolio, do we need to maybe make a slight 87 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 2: rebalance of the portfolio. Is it still aligned to the goals? 88 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 2: Have your goals changed? And let's do another risk profile 89 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 2: to make sure that you know the investment portfolios up 90 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 2: to date with your risk tolerance. 91 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: On that before you go past that. Is there a 92 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: danger of doing a risk profile in the middle of 93 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: a financial crisis that all of a sudden they will 94 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: be very reflective of the environment that you're doing it 95 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: in that if you were to say, okay, what's your 96 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: appetite for risk right now when they've just seen the 97 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: market drop five percent something, then of course they're going 98 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: to say, no, no, I'm very conservative now I don't want 99 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: to lose any money. Or is it better to kind 100 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: of look at the long term trend and look at 101 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: what their risk profile was six months ago? 102 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 2: You kind of answered my question. So yeah, so that 103 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: is why you go back to the original. And that's 104 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 2: so I said, you know, the first thing you ask 105 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 2: is well, why did you start investing? What your goals? 106 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: Because you want, you know, a passive income stream, you 107 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 2: want financial independence, So looking at that doing a risk profile, 108 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: but starting with looking at where what your risk profile 109 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 2: looked like when you first started. Because a good risk 110 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: profile is actually an educational tool. It's not just a 111 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 2: matter of serving someone you know, seven to twelve questions. 112 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 2: It actually is an educational tool as well. So if 113 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: your financial planner has done the right job, which I 114 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 2: would hope, so you actually understand the risk involved, so 115 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 2: you're not like you're not It's not like you're turning 116 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: up financially dumb and doing a risk profile. Yes, you 117 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 2: may have heightened emotions and that's normal and that's okay, 118 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: but that's where the you know, the awareness that comes in. 119 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 2: And by no means this is about ignoring what's happening 120 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 2: right now, but it's actually about responding with a purpose, 121 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: not actually panicking. 122 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: Okay, is panic? What you see is panic? The kind 123 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: of the main emotional reaction that you are seeing during 124 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: times of volatility or is there confusion? Is it in action? 125 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: People going I feel like I need to be doing something, 126 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: but I just don't know what. 127 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: Yes, so it's a mix and you know, anxiety, but 128 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 2: also a lot of people don't. 129 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: Talk wrap this is. 130 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: I see a lot of excitement, a lot of relief, 131 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 2: and also a lot of exhilaration because this is now 132 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 2: quite possibly the opportunity that a lot of people have 133 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 2: been waiting for to get started. And they can see that, Okay, well, 134 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 2: I'm able to buy the same quality assets now at 135 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 2: a discount. And if you are educated, if you've spent 136 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 2: time understanding the risks involved and the amount of time 137 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: that's required to invest in that particular asset class, they 138 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 2: can actually see that these are blessings in disguise and 139 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 2: actually seize them to their financial advantage. And at the 140 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 2: end of the day, like money loves a calm head, 141 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,559 Speaker 2: So if you are if you arm yourself with knowledge, 142 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 2: you get some really good quality independent advice, you can 143 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 2: actually turn this to be at a very powerful moment 144 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 2: in helping you get ahead potentially sooner in a more 145 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: efficient way. 146 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: I want to ask you. I've got a lot that 147 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: I want to ask you here, and so we need 148 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,239 Speaker 1: to keep moving. But one of those things is about 149 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: this concept of time in the market versus timing the market, 150 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: and we'll get to that in a second. But younger 151 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: investors are they generally, and this is an assumption, are 152 00:07:54,800 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: they generally more reactive to market movements, And maybe because 153 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: they are more open to the opportunities that it presents 154 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: because they've got more time. 155 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: You know, what is actually not about age, It's actually 156 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 2: more about education and experience. And you know, I've seen 157 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: obviously twenty five year olds who are as cool as 158 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: a cucumber, and I've seen fifty five year olds who 159 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: will panic at every single you know, red candle. So 160 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 2: what makes the biggest difference is how well someone understands 161 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 2: what they have actually invested in and why, and understood 162 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,479 Speaker 2: the amount of time that's needed to allow that investment 163 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 2: to work its magic for them. And you've also got 164 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 2: to look at how much money someone's got at stake. 165 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 2: You know, someone's put their entire life savings into crypto 166 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 2: or single tech stock. Of course they are going to 167 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 2: be panicking, and they're going to be refreshing their portfolios 168 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: like it's Instagram. But give that same person, you know, 169 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 2: a boring blue chip, you know, diversified portfolio with a 170 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:05,359 Speaker 2: long term strategy, their reaction is going to be comparatively 171 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 2: different to that other person, and they're going to be 172 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 2: slipping a lot better regardless of whether they're twenty to 173 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 2: thirty two or seventy two. 174 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: Okay, And is that then where the idea of time 175 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: in the market is going to come into it, particularly 176 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: if you've got to say younger people, because they know 177 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: that they've got potentially forty years for it. Just to 178 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: like markets come and go, they swing, and they generally 179 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: though statistically, keep climbing over the long period. 180 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: No, the what you're saying is because time in the 181 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 2: market is like pitched to younger investors, but really time 182 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 2: in the market is appropriate for ninety percent of investors 183 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: because even someone in their fifties, they if they're planning 184 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,719 Speaker 2: or living a long, healthy life, which I hope they are, 185 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 2: you know, with life expectancy you know, eighty five on 186 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 2: average depending on you know, male or female, that's still 187 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 2: you know, a good twenty five years. That's still a 188 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: long time investment time room. So you still have that 189 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: market time in the market. So look, you know, it's 190 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: trying to time the market is obviously a different thing. 191 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: That's when you're trying to like pick the blowest. And 192 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: I think trying to time the market rather than timing 193 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 2: the market is fraught with dangerous kind of like jumping 194 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: on a treadmill that's already moving at a really fast 195 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 2: speed and it's that's it's stupid, it's risky, it's dangerous, 196 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: and you're probably going to fall flat on your face 197 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 2: and come up with a few bruises or even broken 198 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 2: back bones and a pretty damaged ego. But time in 199 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: the market, which we all have, in my opinion, is 200 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 2: is safer. You know, it's like getting on a treadmill 201 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 2: that's moving, not going particularly fast, it might even be 202 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: a little bit boring, but that speed like gradually increases 203 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 2: and before you know it, you're actually traveling quite a 204 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 2: decent distance, and you know, building up a financial fitness 205 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 2: along the way, working up a bit of a sweat, 206 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: and actually feeling really good about yourself. So you know, 207 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 2: this is the sorry you're looking frowning at me with 208 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 2: my lovely analogies. I though it was quite brilliant. 209 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: Of the treadmill treadmill, but it sounds as at some 210 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: point they got off the treadmill and actually ran for 211 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: a distant somewhere else. 212 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 2: No, they jumped on the treadmill that was going really quickly, 213 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: trying to time the market, and fell flat on their face. 214 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 2: Because that is risky, dangerous and just lawsuit waiting to happen. 215 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: Can you explain to me. We hear the term dollar 216 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: cost averaging a lot, can you just explain kind of 217 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: what that means just as a piece of jargon and 218 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: whether that is something that will come up in conversations 219 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: with people during volatile periods in markets. 220 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 2: Dolo cost averaging is one of my favorite investing strategies 221 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 2: you could see. So it's essentially when you are buying 222 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: on small amounts on a regular basis, and it's particularly 223 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: helpful for when you know the markets are a little 224 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 2: bit you know, wobbly and there's a bit of short 225 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 2: term uncertainty. So you have a fixed amount, say one 226 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 2: hundred dollars per month, and you are investing it regardless 227 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 2: of what is going on the markets, whether they're up 228 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 2: or down. And the beauty of it is that when 229 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 2: prices are down, you're actually getting more bang for your 230 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 2: buck because you're able to buy for the same amount 231 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 2: of money, You're able to acquire more shares, for example, 232 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 2: and obviously when the market is up, you're getting not 233 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 2: as getting as many, but over the long run, it 234 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 2: kind of evens out and smooths out your initial purchase 235 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,839 Speaker 2: price over time, kind of like buying chocolate bars where 236 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 2: each week with the price varies. 237 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: You just can't help yourself, can you. 238 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 2: I feel like it makes sense when you use an analogy. 239 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 2: I know, I love an analogy, but you use so 240 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 2: many and an anecdot. 241 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I find the anecdotes really illuminate the story. The 242 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: analogies kind of muddy the water a little, just a 243 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: little bit on occasion. So that's dollar cost averaging. How 244 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: often do you think people should be checking their investment 245 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: portfolios during these kind of rocky periods if markets are sliding, 246 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: is it worth checking in or are you better just 247 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: to go? You know what, looking at it now is 248 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: going to evoke too much of an emotional response, and 249 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: I don't want to be emotional about this, you know. 250 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 2: I was actually having a conversation the other day with 251 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 2: a financial planner who I know really well, and we 252 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 2: had conflicting opinions on this. So it really does depend 253 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 2: on your own individual situation and your own investment strategy. Obviously, 254 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: I would recommend avoid checking it on a daily basis 255 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 2: or even weekly basis, but you also want to make 256 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 2: sure that you stay informed at the same time. So 257 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 2: for some people that might be monthly that is better 258 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: for them, but for other people might be quarterly, or 259 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 2: for me, I only check it when I actually want 260 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 2: to invest. I've got new money to add to the portfolio, 261 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 2: That's when I'll check in. 262 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: Okay, And that way you're checking with purpose as opposed 263 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: to just checking for the heck of it, which would 264 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: probably start to worry you. 265 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 2: Well, you've become attached to it. It creates, you know, 266 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 2: these emotional knee jerk reactions. But can I add an 267 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 2: important tip when you do go and check your portfolio, 268 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 2: don't just look at the portfolio evaluation. To check and 269 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 2: see what is the income that you have earned from 270 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 2: that investment. Very easy to do, particular with your superannuation accounts. 271 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: You can see what last year's financial year's income was. 272 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 2: How look good at what it is year to date. 273 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 2: Most of the subernuation accounts. You can actually do this 274 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: yourself by running a check on the returns. If the 275 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 2: income hasn't dropped, feel a little more more assured because 276 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: it means your investment is potentially working for you. Obviously, 277 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 2: get advice when in doubt, but don't get caught up 278 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: in the actual portfolio evaluation because the share market doesn't 279 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 2: necessarily reflect the value. 280 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: Okay, we'll come back in a second. I want to 281 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: talk about diversification in products that people use to reduce 282 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: that volatility risk, and whether there is actually a right 283 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: time to actually pull out of the market. We will 284 00:14:54,640 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: get into that after the break. Can we are talking 285 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: about investing in volatile markets, and of course this is 286 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: not investing or financial advice. You should seek professional advice 287 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: if you hear anything here that is relevant to your circumstances. 288 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: Are there products that in a typical portfolio people use 289 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: to help reduce the volatility risk? 290 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 2: Yes, and this is really important. So things like listed 291 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: investment companies, ETFs, exchange shade of funds, talents manage funds, 292 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 2: and you know, bonds, fixed interest investments. They can be 293 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 2: used to help smooth out all of those you know, 294 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 2: nasty bumps. They don't obviously completely eliminate the risk involved, 295 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 2: but they can definitely cushion those falls and reduce those 296 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 2: like you know, gut churning swings that we're seeing right now. 297 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 2: And you know, they are obviously to help make sure 298 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 2: that your money is working for you and it was 299 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 2: in alignment to your risk profile, So always check that. 300 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: Okay, versification, Just how important is that in getting someone 301 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: through the ups and downs, and but not necessarily talking 302 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: about the big fluctuations like we saw after the tariffs, 303 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: but just the day to day kind of movement within 304 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: the market. How important is diversification. 305 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 2: It's everything. So diversification spreads your risk across a wide 306 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 2: range of different assets. I know we talk a lot 307 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 2: about shares, but there's so many other things beyond shares 308 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 2: and property. So it also means that your money is 309 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 2: not necessarily tied to one particular location. So you think 310 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 2: about different industries, different countries, and they're not positively align necessary. 311 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 2: So you might see volatility in the Australian share market, 312 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 2: but then you may see strength in the property market 313 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 2: and vice versa. So one area drops, the other one 314 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 2: held is perhaps holding steady, and then maybe you know, 315 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 2: some fixed interest investments are actually rising depending on what 316 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 2: the underlying investment is. So it's about not putting all 317 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 2: your eggs in one basket, but making sure that it's 318 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 2: actually working for you and what allows you to have 319 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: a good night sleep. 320 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: Still, I'm really curious about the conversations that you have 321 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: with clients during these periods when there is volatility in markets. 322 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 1: How do you help a client distinguish between what is 323 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: a short term wobble in the market compared to what 324 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: might be a like a fundamental shift in markets. How 325 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: do you kind of help them sit down and go, 326 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: all right, this might be around for a long time. 327 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 2: Look, you have to look at what's the actual underlying cause, 328 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,479 Speaker 2: what is really going on, And that is when you know, 329 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: most financial plans will reach out to economists, you know, 330 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 2: go through a whole pile of research data, reports and 331 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 2: opinions and work with a client as to what they 332 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 2: think and also what they're feeling and what they feel 333 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 2: comfortable with. But you know, a financial plannel always understands 334 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 2: what the client's goals are and what the time frame involves, 335 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 2: so they're not looking at necessarily being strategic and predicting 336 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 2: the next crash or the next massive opportunity. So really 337 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 2: understanding the real risks involved and what is actually in 338 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 2: alignment to what the client wants. 339 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: Are you saying then that really shouldn't let the volatility 340 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: affect your long term plans. That keep your eyes on 341 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: whatever the goals are that you set when you first 342 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: sat down and started discussing, just focus on those rather 343 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: than trying to be too reactive in the short term. 344 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: What's the headline versus what's the actual factually happening right now, 345 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 2: So not getting caught up in the noise and arming 346 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 2: yourself with the right amount of information so that you 347 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 2: understand and if you need to make a sudden change, 348 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 2: you're prepared. But really again coming back to that why 349 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 2: what is your ultimate goal? And looking back in history 350 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 2: to see, well, what happened previously when similar things like 351 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 2: this happened, and human endeavor always prevails. You know, if 352 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 2: you look back over a twenty thirty forty year period, 353 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 2: you know the markets are always recovered. 354 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: I feel a bit silly asking you this next question, 355 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: but I have never shied away from asking asking you 356 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: potentially silly questions on this podcast. Is there ever a 357 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: time when pulling out of the market is actually the 358 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: right move? 359 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 2: Yes, So, when the strategy isn't right, the investments aren't 360 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 2: aligned to your goals, your time frame, or your risk profile, 361 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 2: it can definitely be the right time to go. You 362 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 2: know what, enough enough, this isn't actually working for me, 363 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 2: and that's why you need advice because they're also consequences 364 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 2: of selling, like triggering capital gains tax or locking in 365 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 2: losses and then there might be strategic ways that you 366 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 2: can help minimize those things. So it's not actually about, 367 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: you know, panic selling, but it's actually about consciously reassessing 368 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 2: and making value based decisions on choice. And it takes 369 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 2: a lot of courage, particularly if you've designed your own 370 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 2: financial strategy yourself, do actually go, you know what, I 371 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 2: thought I was doing the right thing here, but I've 372 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 2: stuffed it. I've done the wrong thing, and I need 373 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 2: to undo this and start all over again. And that's when, 374 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 2: obviously you've got to go see a financial plan so 375 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 2: that you don't have any regrets and you get proactive 376 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 2: advice that is strategic as well as about the underlying investments. 377 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: So what you're really saying is that that was actually 378 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: a very good question. 379 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 2: It was very good. 380 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you entirely. Unprompted praise just then from you, 381 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: very quickly, because we are out of time. Now. Have 382 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: you seen it happen where someone has panicked and perhaps 383 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: made a poor financial decision, maybe just gone independently of 384 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 1: the advice that you were giving them and might not 385 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: even be a client, made a poor financial decision because 386 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: of volatility in markets. 387 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 2: Yes, me, wow, Yeah, So when I was at university, 388 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 2: before I started studying financial planning, I had invested a 389 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 2: lot of money, which was a lot of money at 390 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 2: the time for me, into a international fund and there 391 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 2: was a short term pullback and the value of the 392 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 2: investment dropped significantly and I panicked and I sold the 393 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 2: whole entire thing and I locked in those losses. Wow. Yeah, 394 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 2: do I regret it, Of course I do. But it 395 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 2: was a really powerful lesson for me at the time, 396 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 2: and I have never made that same mistake again. And 397 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 2: you know, it's part of my own financial story and 398 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 2: I've made peace with that, and you know, we all 399 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 2: make mistakes. The thing is not to make the same 400 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 2: mistake again. 401 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: Okay, flip side. Have you then seen someone who stayed 402 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: the course through volatility and it really paid off in 403 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: the long run, is it you? Again? 404 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 2: Well yes, But actually, all my financial planning clients, like 405 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 2: I've been a financial planner for twenty something years, I've 406 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 2: never had a client sell their portfolio during you know, 407 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 2: a market correction, crash or pullback. Yes, I've had phone 408 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 2: calls and meetings about what. 409 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: Should we do? 410 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 2: You know, do we even buy more? Do you know? 411 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 2: How can we manage this, yes, absolutely, and that that's 412 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 2: all part of being a final plan. But I've never 413 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 2: actually had a client who's sold during a pullback, and 414 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: every single person has said, thank goodness, we didn't. You know, 415 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 2: I listened to your advice, Thank goodness. And that's not 416 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 2: to always smoke at my own backsize, but it is 417 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 2: important to remind yourself as to what is the big 418 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 2: picture here, yea. And you know, if it means just 419 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 2: taking a step back and turning down the noise, that's okay, 420 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 2: as long as you're still informed. You know, we want 421 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 2: to make sure that we have no regrets, and if 422 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:28,959 Speaker 2: we do need to make a decision, we do it 423 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 2: with all the information that we need so that we 424 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,239 Speaker 2: can feel good about what we've decided to do. 425 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: I really like where you started, not obviously the rainbow 426 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: breath that was quite odd, but I did like the 427 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: idea of just just stop, take a moment, think about it, 428 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: and go back to the reasons why you were investing 429 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 1: in the first place. It feels like that would really 430 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: kind of center you and maybe take a little bit 431 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: of the reactive element and the emotional element out of 432 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: it and help you refocus back on the long term goals. 433 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 2: And it's funny, you know, people always say the markets, 434 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 2: you know, they haven't started investing yet because it's too expensive. 435 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 2: But then when these pullbacks happen, they then get scared. 436 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 2: It's like, well, hey, you been saying it's too expensive. 437 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: Now you're able to buy those things, those investments now 438 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 2: at a significant discount. You're now too scared. So this 439 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 2: I think this is a really exciting opportunity for a 440 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 2: lot of people who have, you know, long term financial 441 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 2: goals in. 442 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 1: Place, and it is a very good time to be 443 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: getting financial advice. 444 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: Yes, not buying advice, is go get professional advice and 445 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 2: jump on this opportunity in an educated and informed manner 446 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 2: with a financial planner that can help you and hold. 447 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: Your hand absolutely all right, how do we find you? 448 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: If we want more information? 449 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: If you want to hear more about my rainbow breath, 450 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 2: so you can reach out to me at a Sugar 451 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 2: Mama TV. 452 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: On Instagram and you can hear me every day with 453 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: Sean Aylmer on Fear and Greed daily business news for 454 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: people who make their own decisions. Thank you very much 455 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: for listening to how Do they Afford That? Remember to 456 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: hit follow on the podcast that's very important, and the 457 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 1: best thing that you can do is actually tell somebody else. 458 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: Tell them about this podcast, send them the link to 459 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: this episode if you think that it's something that they 460 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: might be interested in, and help spread the word about 461 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: how do they afford that. Thank you for your company. 462 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: Join us again next week.