WEBVTT - ScoMo’s Brittany Higgins moment

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<v Speaker 1>You can listen to the Front on your smart speaker

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<v Speaker 1>every morning to hear the latest episode. Just say play

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<v Speaker 1>the news from the Australian. From the Australian, here's what's

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<v Speaker 1>on the Front. I'm Claire Harvey. It's Wednesday, August fourteen.

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<v Speaker 1>A law firm that tried to fight the deportation of

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<v Speaker 1>a domestic violence offender has been slated by the tribunal

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<v Speaker 1>hearing immigration claims. The Administrative Appeals Tribunal said the law

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<v Speaker 1>firm had attempted to manipulate the tribunal with lies about

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<v Speaker 1>the man's case. That's an exclusive live now at the

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<v Speaker 1>Australian dot com dot au. Scott Morrison has entered the

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<v Speaker 1>Brittany Higgins defamation trial, and the former Prime Minister says

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<v Speaker 1>his former minister Linda Reynolds should never have called Higgins

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<v Speaker 1>a lying cow. Today all the action from the Supreme Court.

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<v Speaker 1>Brittaney Higgins was one of the most junior staffers in

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<v Speaker 1>the government of Scott Morrison, but she had probably the

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<v Speaker 1>biggest impact.

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<v Speaker 2>I have listened to Brittany. Jenny and I spoke last

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<v Speaker 2>night and she said to me, you have to think

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<v Speaker 2>about this as a father first, what would you want

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<v Speaker 2>to happen if it were our girls. Jenny has a

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<v Speaker 2>way of clarifying things.

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<v Speaker 1>In the days after Brittney Higgins went public in February

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty one with her claim to have been raped

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<v Speaker 1>two years earlier in the office of her boss, Senator

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<v Speaker 1>Linda Reynolds, her story became the only story in Canberra.

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<v Speaker 3>On What day did the minister first become aware of

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<v Speaker 3>allegations of rape made by her former staff member.

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<v Speaker 4>What action did the minister take.

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<v Speaker 5>As a result, What was the reason for his employment

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<v Speaker 5>ended and did he resign or.

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<v Speaker 1>Was he sacked? Labor pushed Linda Reynolds hard on what

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<v Speaker 1>she'd done to help Higgins after discovering the young woman

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<v Speaker 1>was claiming to have been raped by a fellow staffer,

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<v Speaker 1>Bruce Lammon, on the sofa in Reynold's own ministerial suite.

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<v Speaker 1>Reynolds said she did everything she could to assist Higgins,

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<v Speaker 1>but wanted her to get professional.

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<v Speaker 3>Help on her couch in her ministerial office.

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<v Speaker 5>What action did the minister take as a result. The

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<v Speaker 5>alleged rapist has been described as the Minister's favorite. Did

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<v Speaker 5>the minister consider it odd that her favorite go to

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<v Speaker 5>person would resign on the spot for a security breach

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<v Speaker 5>without a conversation with her.

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<v Speaker 1>So much has happened since then. The Morrison government was

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<v Speaker 1>turfed out. In twenty twenty two, Bruce Lammon was found

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<v Speaker 1>by the Federal Court to have, on the balance of

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<v Speaker 1>probabilities raped Brittaney Higgins, of finding Lehman has always denied

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<v Speaker 1>and which he's appealing. And now Linda Reynolds is suing

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<v Speaker 1>Brittany Higgins and her husband David Charraz not over the

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<v Speaker 1>rape claim, but over social media posts in which she

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<v Speaker 1>says they accused her of being a hypocrite and a

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<v Speaker 1>boss who did nothing to help her vulnerable young employee.

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<v Speaker 6>This is from a current Australian senator who continues to

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<v Speaker 6>harass me through the media and in the Parliament instead

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<v Speaker 6>of solving the problem. There are people who would prefer

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<v Speaker 6>to just silence victims.

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<v Speaker 7>There is a very real chance Linda Reynolds will be

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<v Speaker 7>called to court this year to answer questions on her

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<v Speaker 7>involvement in Britain. Higgins feeling pressured by her office not

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<v Speaker 7>to continue with a complaint to police.

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<v Speaker 1>Higgins and Shiraz are mounting a truth defense in the

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<v Speaker 1>defamation case, being heard in the WA Supreme Court. They're

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<v Speaker 1>seeking to demonstrate that Linda Reynolds really did fail in

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<v Speaker 1>her duty of care to Higgins. Between Higgins's version of

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<v Speaker 1>events and Reynolds, there are some small differences, like exactly

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<v Speaker 1>when Higgins told her bosses she believed she'd been raped,

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<v Speaker 1>and there are enormous gulfs like Higgins's claims she was

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<v Speaker 1>told to stop talking about the rape. I would try

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<v Speaker 1>and raise it, and I would try and bring it up.

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<v Speaker 4>Then it was always it always sort of came back

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<v Speaker 4>to sort of being a mere issue, and I said,

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<v Speaker 4>if you can't deal with it, then you can leave.

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<v Speaker 1>Higgins says she was told she could drop the matter

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<v Speaker 1>or give up her job. She said it was crystal

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<v Speaker 1>clear this was a political problem for the government. Linda

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<v Speaker 1>Reynolds says that is one hundred percent sent untrue. She

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<v Speaker 1>sacked Bruce Lammon the day she found out he'd entered

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<v Speaker 1>Parliament with Higgins after hours. Reynolds says she did everything

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<v Speaker 1>to encourage Higgins to go to the police and to

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<v Speaker 1>support her when Higgins decided not to go ahead. Here's

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<v Speaker 1>some of what Reynolds told the court in the trial's

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<v Speaker 1>opening days. We've used a voice actor.

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<v Speaker 4>I had no reason then or now to doubt her

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<v Speaker 4>memories of rape, but everything else she said I.

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<v Speaker 1>Knew wasn't true.

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<v Speaker 4>What had I missed for her to now think that

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<v Speaker 4>was all true?

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<v Speaker 1>Talking about the social posts, Reynolds said, I.

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<v Speaker 4>Just felt like one of those punching clowns at the fairground.

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<v Speaker 4>You get punched down and you have to get up smiling.

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<v Speaker 4>Then you get punched down again, and punched down again,

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<v Speaker 4>and punched down again.

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<v Speaker 1>Enter Scott Morrison.

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<v Speaker 3>I consider Linda a good friend and a very trustworthy colleague.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a voice actor bringing you the former PM's words

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<v Speaker 1>from the court where he's been called by barristers for

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<v Speaker 1>Linda Reynolds. He said he had had no idea back

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty nineteen that there was an allegation of rape.

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<v Speaker 3>Had the matter been brought to my attention in twenty nineteen,

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<v Speaker 3>a process would have followed to understand what had occurred

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<v Speaker 3>and what the deficiencies were and how we may have

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<v Speaker 3>dealt with it at that time.

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<v Speaker 1>Rachel Young, sc BARRISTIFFA. Reynolds asked Morrison whether he was

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<v Speaker 1>disappointed Reynolds didn't tell him about the alleged rape at

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<v Speaker 1>the time.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, initially I was, but as events transpired, Senator Reynolds

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<v Speaker 3>chose not to do that out of respect for the

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<v Speaker 3>confidence they'd entered into with Miss Higgins, so that was

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<v Speaker 3>a dilemma.

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<v Speaker 1>Morrison said this about Brittany Higgins feeling she was not supported.

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<v Speaker 3>I stress I never saw that as a failing of

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<v Speaker 3>Senator Reynolds. I saw that as a failure of the

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<v Speaker 3>process to support each of them in what was a

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<v Speaker 3>highly sensitive, vulnerable and difficult situation.

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<v Speaker 1>He described the Labour Party's intense questioning of Reynolds in

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<v Speaker 1>Parliament like bias.

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<v Speaker 3>There was quite aggressive questioning and very coordinated questioning taking place.

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<v Speaker 3>I went and saw her immediately after question time and

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<v Speaker 3>she was in a very distressed state. I expressed my

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<v Speaker 3>strong support for her to help her get through this.

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<v Speaker 3>It was intending to discredit her and weaponize the issue

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<v Speaker 3>for political purposes, to discredit the Senator, the government and myself.

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<v Speaker 1>In March twenty twenty one, The Australian broke an exclusive

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<v Speaker 1>in her ministerial office, Linda Reynolds called Brittany Higgins a

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<v Speaker 1>lying cow. Reynolds has told this trial she was talking

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<v Speaker 1>about Higgins's claim that Reynolds had mishandled the allegations. Reynolds

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<v Speaker 1>says she wasn't denying Higgins's claim to have been raped.

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<v Speaker 1>Reynolds gave a ten thousand dollars donation to a women's

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<v Speaker 1>shelter after Higgins threatened to sue over the remark. In

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<v Speaker 1>the witness box on Tuesday, Scott Morrison was cross examined

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<v Speaker 1>by Rachel Young, sc council for Higgins, about that we've

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<v Speaker 1>used voice actors.

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<v Speaker 3>A minister calling anyone a cow, particularly female, was unacceptable.

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<v Speaker 1>Particularly in respect to a rape complainant.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh host of things, but I found this statement by

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<v Speaker 3>miss Reynolds to be particularly out of character. It's not

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<v Speaker 3>okay for ministers to speak this way about anyone. She

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<v Speaker 3>referred to her as a cow, and that was absolutely

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<v Speaker 3>outrageous and one shouldn't do that. And she apologized, and

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<v Speaker 3>I thought that was the end of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you tell Senator Reynolds to apologize?

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't have to.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you tell her to apologize?

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't have to.

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<v Speaker 1>Young wanted to know if Morrison considered standing Reynolds down.

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<v Speaker 3>It was a statement completely out of character, made in

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<v Speaker 3>a private setting. One would not expect to be made public.

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<v Speaker 3>If all members of Parliament had their comments made public,

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<v Speaker 3>we would not have a single member serving in Parliament.

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<v Speaker 1>Morrison described his meeting with Britney Higgins in April twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty one, and he seemed bemused about the topics that

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<v Speaker 1>interested Higgins.

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<v Speaker 3>I do know Miss Higgins seemed very agitated around the

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<v Speaker 3>arbitrary nature of dismissal. When staff members are accused of

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<v Speaker 3>something and ministers dismissed them. That's essentially what happened. Another

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<v Speaker 3>member of staff involved in these matters was dismissed.

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<v Speaker 1>He's talking about Bruce Lamon, who was told to pack

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<v Speaker 1>up his stuff as soon as Senator Reynolds became aware

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<v Speaker 1>he'd entered Parliament after hours.

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<v Speaker 3>I was surprised this seemed dominant in her mind, but

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<v Speaker 3>that's what she wanted to focus.

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<v Speaker 1>On, Morrison said. As the situation unfolded, he realized he'd

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<v Speaker 1>have to move Reynolds out of the Critical Defense portfolio

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<v Speaker 1>because her mental health had been so seriously affected.

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<v Speaker 3>She was quite visibly stressed and in a highly fragile

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<v Speaker 3>emotional state. When I went to see her, I was

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<v Speaker 3>unaware of her cardiac condition. It was brought to my

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<v Speaker 3>attention with her permission sometime later. I remember for a

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<v Speaker 3>period there we were very fearful that Senator Reynolds that

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<v Speaker 3>this could be a fatal outcome for her. She took

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<v Speaker 3>sick leave as she should. She was not capable of

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<v Speaker 3>continuing her duties in her physical and mental state. I

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<v Speaker 3>appointed an acting Minister with the hope and intention that

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<v Speaker 3>Reynolds would be able to continue to serve in that role.

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<v Speaker 3>She was given the Government Services role, which was also important,

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<v Speaker 3>but not at the stress levels of the Defense portfolio.

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<v Speaker 1>In March twenty twenty one, Peter Dutton took over the

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<v Speaker 1>Defense portfolio. Morrison said he believed Higgins's claim of rape

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<v Speaker 1>had been used to attack the government, saying he'd seen.

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<v Speaker 3>It was intended to discredit her. It was the weaponizing

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<v Speaker 3>of this issue for political purposes to discredit both Senator

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<v Speaker 3>Reynolds and the government and by extinction myself.

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<v Speaker 1>Morrison said. Brittney higgins suggestion in the Project interview that

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<v Speaker 1>Reynolds or the government had tried to cover up the rape.

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<v Speaker 3>Was completely and utterly false.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up, Scott Morrison makes it clear he's not going

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<v Speaker 1>to take the blame. The big stories in this giant

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<v Speaker 1>drama are always broken by The Australian. Join ours subscribers

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<v Speaker 1>for a lot less than the cost of a coffee

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<v Speaker 1>a day at The Australian. We'll be back after this break.

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<v Speaker 1>In cross examination, Rachel Young, sc Council for Brittany Higgins

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<v Speaker 1>asked Scott Morrison whether the review of workplace culture he

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<v Speaker 1>initiated in twenty twenty one was just a stunt. Morrison

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<v Speaker 1>denied that.

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<v Speaker 3>It was important because we needed to make sure that

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<v Speaker 3>the processes and supports that were available to everyone who

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<v Speaker 3>could be potentially having to deal with the situation like

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<v Speaker 3>this were adequate. The public nature of this was not

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<v Speaker 3>the motive. The issue was the motive, and the need

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<v Speaker 3>to deal with it was the motive.

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<v Speaker 1>Young began grilling Morrison about one of the lines of inquiry.

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<v Speaker 1>Morrison said he didn't think the questions were relevant.

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<v Speaker 3>It doesn't relate to the conduct of Senator Reynolds.

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<v Speaker 1>The judge weighed in, Sorry, mister Morrison, you don't have

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<v Speaker 1>a choice unless there's an objection to the question, and

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<v Speaker 1>there hasn't been. I would be grateful if you could answer.

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<v Speaker 1>Young asked Morrison whether the review found Parliament's processes for

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<v Speaker 1>handling serious allegations were inadequate.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, yes, I think that has probably been the case

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<v Speaker 3>for a very long time, and the culture in Parliament

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<v Speaker 3>had improved, but clearly not enough.

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<v Speaker 1>Scott Morrison has always made it clear in this matter

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<v Speaker 1>he's not going to take the blame. In February twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty one, he told the Parliament he'd spoken to Fiona Brown,

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<v Speaker 1>who was Linda Reynolds chief of staff at the time

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<v Speaker 1>of the twenty nineteen incident.

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<v Speaker 2>I have had these conversations, mister Speaker with the member

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<v Speaker 2>of staff members of mine, I said, there'd been many conversations.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm happy to indicate that I've had conversations about the

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<v Speaker 2>support provided by the member of my staff. Now, she

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<v Speaker 2>missed speaker was working as the chief of staff to

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<v Speaker 2>the midst of the defense industry at the time. Now

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<v Speaker 2>I have discussed that matters with her and the support provided,

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<v Speaker 2>and she indeed.

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<v Speaker 1>As the implication was that Brown had been reprimanded last

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<v Speaker 1>week in court, Linda Reynolds said Scott Morrison had been

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<v Speaker 1>very sympathetic to her.

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<v Speaker 4>Scott came in, he'd come straight over from question time.

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<v Speaker 4>He talked with me He was incredibly compassionate. He was

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<v Speaker 4>sharing with me just how difficult it was for him

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<v Speaker 4>being accused of covering up a rape, and how difficult

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<v Speaker 4>it was for his girls.

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<v Speaker 1>But Fiona Brown has previously told The Australian Morrison in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>never had a real conversation with her about the scandal.

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<v Speaker 1>Brown insists to this day Brittany Higgins never expressly told

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<v Speaker 1>her I was raped. She took Higgins to the police

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<v Speaker 1>office in Parliament and when Higgins said she didn't want

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<v Speaker 1>to pursue a complaint, Brown left it at that. We've

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<v Speaker 1>used a voice actor to bring you Fiona Brown's words.

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<v Speaker 1>She's describing Morrison's conduct in February twenty twenty one, by

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<v Speaker 1>which time Brown was working in Morrison's office.

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<v Speaker 8>I remember him coming back after question time on that Thursday,

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<v Speaker 8>and for the first time he said how are you.

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<v Speaker 8>He has never sat down or even walked by and

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<v Speaker 8>had a proper discussion with me after the issue exploded.

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<v Speaker 8>The most discussion I ever had with him was in

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<v Speaker 8>that moment. That was the extent of it, A two

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<v Speaker 8>minute conversation, Hi, Fiona, how are you? I said, Oh,

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<v Speaker 8>it's pretty tough, and I apologized to him. I said,

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<v Speaker 8>I'm sorry they're using me to get to you. I'm

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<v Speaker 8>really sorry about that. But she never never told me.

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<v Speaker 8>And then the only thing he says in relation to

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<v Speaker 8>this matter ever is we've spoken. That's it. We've spoken,

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<v Speaker 8>haven't we, and then he walked off.

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<v Speaker 1>Brown said, when she read what Morrison had said in

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<v Speaker 1>parliament about her, that was it.

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<v Speaker 8>I realized at that moment that I was collateral damage.

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<v Speaker 8>I was devastated. I felt grubby.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us on the front. Keep up with

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<v Speaker 1>live updates from this trial at the Australian dot Com

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<v Speaker 1>Dot You