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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, September twenty three, twenty twenty five. Legal tobacco

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Speaker 1: sales have collapsed by two billion dollars and the government's

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Speaker 1: legacy is in ashes. That's according to convenience stores and

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Speaker 1: tobacco companies, who say the government's reforms are ludicrous and

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Speaker 1: have handed the cigarette market to criminals. Charlie Kirk will

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Speaker 1: be posthumously honored with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, and

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Speaker 1: his wife, Erica will become chief executive of his Turning

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Speaker 1: Point conservative movement, with a goal of saving the young

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Speaker 1: men she calls the lost Boys of the West. Erica

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Speaker 1: Kirk offered forgiveness to her husband's alleged killer in a

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Speaker 1: powerfully emotional memorial. We've got a full episode about that.

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Speaker 1: Jump back in your fee to hear Erica Kirk, jd

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Speaker 1: Vance and Donald Trump talking of mercy and vengeance. Palestinians

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Speaker 1: want a homeland just as Jews do. That's the message

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Speaker 1: from a major speech delivered by Anthony Albanesi it to

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Speaker 1: the United Nations overnight. As Australia formerly recognizes Palestinian statehood. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Hamas is brutally executing so called collaborators and Israel's Benjamin Etnia,

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Speaker 1: who is vowing Palestine will never be a state. Today,

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Speaker 1: the political tactics behind Albanese's trip to New York and

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Speaker 1: how Donald Trump will react. Jeff Chambers is The Australian's

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Speaker 1: political editor and he's in New York with the Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister for what's turning out to be an absolutely whirlwind week.

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Speaker 2: We're all on a canbra.

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Speaker 1: It's a beautiful team, Jeff. It started with the Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister and Penny Wong standing in the Rose Garden of

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Speaker 1: the United Nations, announced that Australia has now formally recognized Palestine.

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Speaker 2: We recognized the legitimate, unlong held aspirations of the people

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Speaker 2: of Palestine of a state of their own, and in

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Speaker 2: doing so, we reaffirm Australia's long standing position of two states,

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Speaker 2: the State of Israel and the State of Palestine, living

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Speaker 2: side by side behind internationally recognized borders in peace and security.

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Speaker 1: What does that actually mean?

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Speaker 3: I think for Australia to go out on a limb

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Speaker 3: like this, they really needed Britain and Canada, two other

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Speaker 3: members of the Five Ay Security Alliance and all very

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Speaker 3: close friends and allies traditionally with the United States, and

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Speaker 3: I think it was because of that cover and all

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Speaker 3: three countries and leaders in Kirstarma Markhani and Anthony Alberizi,

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Speaker 3: they coordinated at the same time to come out together of.

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Speaker 4: The growing horror in the Middle East. We are acting

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Speaker 4: to keep alave the possibility of peace and a two

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Speaker 4: stage solution that means a safe and secure Israel alongside

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Speaker 4: a viable Palestinian state. At the moment we have neither.

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Speaker 3: And they came out probably a day before people expected

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Speaker 3: them because Emmanuel Macron France with Saudi Arabia has over

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Speaker 3: this year been holding a forum called the Two State

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Speaker 3: Solution Conference, which is obviously aligned with the UN, and

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Speaker 3: this was seen as a platform by like minded Western

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Speaker 3: nations to come together for this moment, which is the

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Speaker 3: United Nations General Assembly and Anthony Aberanese's first high level

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Speaker 3: leaders week to make this very strong position, and they've

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Speaker 3: done that at the front of United Nations. So it

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Speaker 3: is a big moment in terms of Australia foreign policy.

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Speaker 3: This is a decade's long position that's been held in

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Speaker 3: relation to Israel and Palestine and Obviously there's some really

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Speaker 3: big question marks over is this just simply a symbolic move.

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Speaker 1: It's the culmination of a political dream for Anthony Albanesi,

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Speaker 1: long before Palestine became a really popular cause with people

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Speaker 1: marching over the Sydney Harbor.

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Speaker 4: Bridge about it.

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Speaker 1: But the reality on the ground in Palestine is something

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Speaker 1: different from what I think Anthony Albanesi might have envisaged

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Speaker 1: in a Palestinian state. Overnight, Islamic Jihad and the Mujahadeen Brigades,

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Speaker 1: all three of them are terrorists. Prescribed organizations executed two

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Speaker 1: Palestinian men they're accusing of collaborating with Israel. Was absolutely nauseating, Jeff.

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Speaker 1: They blindfolded them and then shot them dead, and that

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Speaker 1: was something that Hammas and the other organizations considered as

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Speaker 1: good news. They were publicizing this on their own social

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Speaker 1: media channels. How does that reality square with the vision

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Speaker 1: that Anthony Albanezi has.

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Speaker 3: It's a harsh and stark reality. It's like the wild West,

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Speaker 3: and law is not abided by Harmas rules with an

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Speaker 3: iron fist. These other groups rule with an iron fist.

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Speaker 3: And this stock that all these countries, including Australia, has

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Speaker 3: put in the Palestinian Authority is really misleading because anyone

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Speaker 3: that has been following what's been going on the ground

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Speaker 3: in the West Bank and in Gaza over the past

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Speaker 3: decade and beyond have seen the rise of Hamas and

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Speaker 3: the capitulation of Arafats Palestinian authority, which obviously transferred to

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Speaker 3: Mark mood Abas, who is turning ninety in November, and

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Speaker 3: once he departs from that role, there will be a

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Speaker 3: huge power vacuum in what is already a very fragile

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Speaker 3: Palestini authority. So he is quite unbelievable that people are

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Speaker 3: taking the PA at their word that they can disarm Harmas,

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Speaker 3: that they can hold free democratic elections. I mean, there

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Speaker 3: have not been elections there for how many years? A

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Speaker 3: bus's job has not come up for how many years?

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Speaker 3: And what is the most powerful organization and movement there?

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Speaker 3: It is Hamas. So I asked the question of the

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Speaker 3: Prime Minister when he did a press conference, and I said, well,

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Speaker 3: if a Hamas affiliate or Humas by another name, wins

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Speaker 3: free elections, or if the Palestinian Authority cannot deliver on

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Speaker 3: any of these big reforms that they're suggesting that they

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Speaker 3: can deliver on are there any triggers at all in

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Speaker 3: this declaration of Palestinian statehood? And I think it's pretty

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Speaker 3: clear that now that this Labor government has made this decision,

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Speaker 3: they don't intend to turn back on this. And this

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Speaker 3: is where it becomes hugely symbolic, because where do you

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Speaker 3: put your embassy, what level of support? Who are you supporting?

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Speaker 3: If a Hermas affiliate wins, do you stick with them,

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Speaker 3: do you engage with them? There's a lot of questions

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Speaker 3: that aren't being answered, and the only answer you get is, well,

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Speaker 3: this is really early stages. This is making a really

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Speaker 3: strong point and we'll see where things go from here.

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Speaker 1: Anthony Albernezi likes to say that he's been underestimated his

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Speaker 1: whole life, and he's certainly a master political tactician. He's

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Speaker 1: not stupid. He must know that all of that is

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Speaker 1: very unlikely that any real Palestinian state will come into

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Speaker 1: being under the conditions that he says that he's set.

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Speaker 1: But in a speech that he made overnight, he's condemning Israel,

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Speaker 1: condemning threats to annex parts of Palestine, condemning Israeli settlements

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Speaker 1: in the West Bank, and condemning Israeli settlers for committing

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Speaker 1: acts of violence which the Israeli authority say are a

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Speaker 1: legal against Palestinians. So is the point of this, then,

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Speaker 1: given that Albanese is presumably a realist, just to put

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Speaker 1: pressure on net and youa who to win the war sooner?

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Speaker 3: I think, not just from Australia's perspective, but we've obviously

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Speaker 3: joined a bit of a coalition with Canada, Britain, France

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Speaker 3: and others. I think that is absolutely the tactic here,

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Speaker 3: and there will be elections coming up in Israel, but

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Speaker 3: who's to say what the outcome of that is. And

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Speaker 3: obviously democracies respect democratic elections. But I think ultimately putting

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Speaker 3: aside the sort of personal strong feeling of the Prime

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Speaker 3: Minister in terms of this issue, politically, I think that

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Speaker 3: he's been under pressure as well from labor, MPs and

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Speaker 3: supporters that he makes this move.

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Speaker 4: So to your.

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Speaker 3: Point, yes, a very shrewd politician, something he believes in,

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Speaker 3: and I think, you know, realistically, it's probably not something

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Speaker 3: that will come to fruition anytime soon.

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Speaker 1: Coming up. Could the PM finally get in a room

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Speaker 1: with Donald Trump. It's all happening under the auspices of

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Speaker 1: the UN but of course the UN is based in

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Speaker 1: New York City, on American soil, in Donald Trump's hometown.

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Speaker 1: The Prime Minister is going to cross paths with Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: and then he still hasn't had a meeting with the

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Speaker 1: re elected Trump. So that's something that he wants to

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Speaker 1: deliver to shore up the Orchest partnership and to ensure

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Speaker 1: that Australia doesn't get worse punishment on tariffs, given that

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Speaker 1: that inflection point is where we're at now. Is this

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Speaker 1: all more and wise than it would have otherwise been.

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Speaker 3: I think this was a tactical move and it had

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Speaker 3: been signposted over a period of time. It doesn't help,

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Speaker 3: but I don't think it's a deal breaker, and I

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Speaker 3: think that for a bunch of reasons, some more legitimate

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Speaker 3: than others, I think it hasn't come together, and probably

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Speaker 3: a bit of blame on both sides in terms of

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Speaker 3: timing and that commitment to it. Some do argue that

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Speaker 3: Trump has had so many other things on his plate

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Speaker 3: and that it isn't necessarily a bad thing that Australia

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Speaker 3: isn't at the forefront of his mind. The Prime Minister,

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Speaker 3: after talking about his decision to recognize Palestine, went out

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Speaker 3: of his way at the press conference to invoke Charlie

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Speaker 3: Kirk's memorial and express his condolences and sympathies to all

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Speaker 3: those who loved Charlie Kirk, and that obviously includes Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: But we are a very close ally. You know, the

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Speaker 3: quad's in trouble. Ucus is under review. The tariffs. Well,

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Speaker 3: we've probably got away with it better than others, but

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Speaker 3: you need a leader to lead a conversation, and you know,

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Speaker 3: they might have had full phone calls. Now it is

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Speaker 3: very much the time that they need to meet. I

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Speaker 3: think that the Prime Minister and the people around him

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Speaker 3: are a bit sort of traumatized by what happened when

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Speaker 3: we all went to Canada for the G seven summit.

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Speaker 3: And I fortunate sort of series of circumstances, but in

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Speaker 3: that case, the Prime Minister really he lent him very hard,

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Speaker 3: talked about the meeting a lot, and then on the

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Speaker 3: eve of the meeting, without any notice, he got canceled.

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Speaker 3: And this is the nature of Trump and his administration.

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Speaker 3: It is chaotic. The scheduling is never set. So I

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Speaker 3: think they've sort of worked that out that okay, let's

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Speaker 3: not actually vocalize things or push things out there, so

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Speaker 3: I suspect when it happens, it'll be very late notice.

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Speaker 3: And if it doesn't happen properly here in terms of

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Speaker 3: a bilateral meeting, they will again cross paths late next month,

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Speaker 3: or they're supposed to in Malaysia for the Asian Summit

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Speaker 3: and then in South Korea for the APEX Summit.

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Speaker 1: Elbani's didn't have to go to New York for the

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Speaker 1: UN General Assembly. He in fact hadn't been to one

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Speaker 1: since becoming Prime Minister in twenty twenty two, so presumably

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Speaker 1: he's put a lot of thought into the decision to

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Speaker 1: go at all. Is there a risk that it just

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Speaker 1: blows up in his face if he doesn't get a

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Speaker 1: meeting with Trump, or if he does get one that

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Speaker 1: becomes a disaster. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think he's really trying to project himself after that

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Speaker 3: election win as a stronger voice for a middle power.

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Speaker 3: He's talking a lot about middle powers and that they

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Speaker 3: should have us say at the table and shouldn't just

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Speaker 3: be the big superpowers there, and that the middle powers

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Speaker 3: can bring a lot to the conversation. He's also here

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Speaker 3: to really tout for investment. That's a big push. He's

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Speaker 3: trying to get bigger investment into Australia's clean energy and

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Speaker 3: future Made in Australia plans. But look, I think if

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Speaker 3: he got a picture opportunity, I think in terms of

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Speaker 3: punter Land, in terms of voters who don't really like

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Speaker 3: Trump back at home, they probably look at it and go, oh,

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Speaker 3: they met, that's great. Obviously, those follow security in politics

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Speaker 3: a bit closer realize, well, it's not a substantive meeting.

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Speaker 3: You know, they need to form a relationship and there

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Speaker 3: needs to be certainty year round, aucas Quite and other things.

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Speaker 3: But in Prime Minister's defense, everything I hear is that

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Speaker 3: Trump administration is purely chaotic and it's really hard to

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Speaker 3: absolutely nail things down. But in saying that, we then

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Speaker 3: hear that the Turkish president, who Albanezi wants to talk

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Speaker 3: to about COP thirty one, the UN Climate Change Summit,

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Speaker 3: he's landed a White House meeting right after the UN week,

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Speaker 3: so he'll head from New York down to Washington and

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Speaker 3: Trump will also meet she over at APEC next month.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Chambers is The Australian's political editor. He's on the

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Speaker 1: road with Anthony Alberanzi in the US and UK this week.

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Speaker 1: You can read all Jeff's reporting and all our analysis

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Speaker 1: right now at the Australian dot com dot au