WEBVTT - The Bolt Report | 13 October 0:00:16.190 --> 0:00:21.770 Tonight, Warren Mundine cuts loose on fake Aboriginal writer Bruce Pascoe. 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.400 And Donald Trump goes rogue as his poll numbers tank 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.520 ahead of next month's election. I'll talk to his former spokesman. 0:00:29.180 --> 0:00:33.530 Josh Frydenberg is defended by John Howard. even though Labor 0:00:33.590 --> 0:00:37.610 today again used him to bash the Liberals and Matt 0:00:37.650 --> 0:00:43.310 Canavan on immigration and Barnaby Joyce getting confused. But first, 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:48.900 and speaking of Bruce Pascoe, you know that truth and 0:00:49.020 --> 0:00:52.959 sense are both dead in our debate about Aboriginal issues 0:00:53.020 --> 0:00:56.620 when the most talked about Aborigine in the country, the 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:00.160 one given the most promotion by the ABC, is in 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:05.840 fact a white man. Yes, Bruce Pascoe, which is why 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:12.670 some shocking news today, just crazy stuff, did not surprise me. 0:01:13.230 --> 0:01:16.090 Shocking stuff that I'll get to in a second. But 0:01:16.150 --> 0:01:19.690 Pascoe helps explain his part of the background. Just over 0:01:19.730 --> 0:01:24.810 the past week, I've been following Pascoe's latest doings with amazement. 0:01:26.090 --> 0:01:29.270 Once again, the dishonest promotion of them by the media 0:01:29.310 --> 0:01:34.740 left as well, especially the ABC. Now, it should actually 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:40.490 be beyond argument these days that Pascoe is a fake Aborigine, 0:01:40.990 --> 0:01:44.490 and no journalist can have missed this controversy, how his 0:01:44.550 --> 0:01:49.070 claims have been debunked. Professional genealogists, for instance, for a 0:01:49.130 --> 0:01:56.559 start of the darkemuexposed.org website, confirm his 100% of British 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.220 ancestry and even many of his own relatives no longer 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:01.180 buy his story. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:08.019 Bruce, you wrote Dark Emu, a bestseller about Aboriginal society 0:02:08.100 --> 0:02:11.060 at the time of first contact. How do you identify? 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:16.210 I identify as a Yuin and Bonarong and Tasmanian. 0:02:16.250 --> 0:02:19.369 Do other members of your family agree you all have 0:02:19.430 --> 0:02:20.410 Aboriginal heritage? 0:02:21.650 --> 0:02:22.850 Some do, many don't. 0:02:24.350 --> 0:02:29.450 Pascoe refuses to say whose Aboriginal ancestors supposedly are, and 0:02:29.490 --> 0:02:33.560 I've tracked... over years how he's changed his story about 0:02:34.060 --> 0:02:38.169 his ancestry several times. So no journalist is any business 0:02:38.230 --> 0:02:40.650 taking his word for it. But here we go again. 0:02:40.990 --> 0:02:43.930 The ABC is back promoting the man, it's back for years, 0:02:44.430 --> 0:02:48.810 whose nonsense claims in his book Dark Emu, it's also 0:02:48.910 --> 0:02:52.720 promoted in videos to schools, are false claims that Aborigines 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.860 had actually been farmers, living in houses, in towns of 0:02:56.940 --> 0:03:02.119 up to 50,000 people. And now again, Pascoe is once 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:05.120 more blitzing the ABC with all this and once more 0:03:05.180 --> 0:03:10.880 attacking the wicked West and valorising Aboriginal culture instead. This 0:03:10.930 --> 0:03:12.669 time in a book that the ABC claims is a 0:03:12.730 --> 0:03:19.010 global examination of Western power informed by an Indigenous perspective. 0:03:20.169 --> 0:03:23.470 As our next guest will release his latest book, it 0:03:23.530 --> 0:03:26.920 is entitled The European Mind and it is a global 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:32.239 examination of Western power informed by an Indigenous perspective. The 0:03:32.300 --> 0:03:35.960 author is Bruce Pascoe, an Indigenous farmer and writer, and 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.500 as I said, his new book, The European Mindset, is 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:39.280 out this month. 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:45.510 This new book by this fake Indigenous writer is described 0:03:45.550 --> 0:03:48.770 by The Guardian Australia, which is another left-wing media outlet 0:03:49.410 --> 0:03:54.090 desperate to believe this stuff. It's described like this. Pascoe, 0:03:54.220 --> 0:04:00.340 the dark emu author, rails against Christianity, capitalism and colonialism. 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:07.100 Rails against Christianity and Westernism. Now, The Guardian, like the ABC, 0:04:07.140 --> 0:04:10.140 buys the whole nonsense that white Pascoe is actually black 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:16.140 and Christian society is cruel. It writes that Pascoe, a 0:04:16.180 --> 0:04:21.060 South Victorian farmer and celebrated literary author of Ewan, Bunurong 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:26.910 and Tasmanian ancestry... No, it says Western religions view of 0:04:27.050 --> 0:04:31.850 other spiritual beliefs as inferior, Europe's innate sense of moral 0:04:31.950 --> 0:04:37.760 and racial superiority and capitalism's insatiable appetite for natural resources 0:04:38.100 --> 0:04:46.380 drove global First Nations dispossession. Now, why does this praise 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:51.120 of Pascoe and his supposed Indigenous writings and rantings matter? 0:04:52.380 --> 0:04:55.620 Why does it matter that the Australian Historical Association at 0:04:55.680 --> 0:05:02.380 its latest conference shamefully banned a historical researcher, Darkie Mew 0:05:02.420 --> 0:05:08.180 exposed Roger Kaj, from his speaking spot after complaints that 0:05:08.220 --> 0:05:15.640 would expose fake Aboriginal academics, including this Professor Bruce Pascoe? Well, 0:05:15.660 --> 0:05:17.880 the first reason it matters is obviously that the truth 0:05:17.900 --> 0:05:23.089 should always matter. It should always count. Of course. And 0:05:23.110 --> 0:05:28.630 what's more, if people can't even tell the truth, including journalists, 0:05:28.770 --> 0:05:33.210 if even journalists can't tell the truth about Pascoe, a 100% 0:05:33.210 --> 0:05:37.510 white man, then what else aren't they telling you that's 0:05:37.630 --> 0:05:43.490 true when they talk about Aboriginal issues? Now, I guess 0:05:43.529 --> 0:05:46.850 that's why so many damaging falsehoods are, and are regularly, 0:05:48.010 --> 0:05:53.469 absolutely shamelessly told about the Stolen Generations, for instance. But 0:05:53.529 --> 0:05:57.390 most sinister is that Pascoe is celebrated by the ABC 0:05:57.450 --> 0:06:00.180 and by writers' festivals and by the left as a 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:04.200 so-called Aboriginal critic because he proves what they actually want 0:06:04.220 --> 0:06:09.000 to believe, that Aboriginal ways were golden and Western ways, 0:06:09.660 --> 0:06:13.690 they're evil. It's part of this self-loathing in our culture. 0:06:14.910 --> 0:06:17.310 In fact, Aboriginal culture is now seen in the left 0:06:17.370 --> 0:06:22.330 as so sacred, so wonderful, that it cannot be questioned. 0:06:22.860 --> 0:06:26.690 point out its failures and lawyers warn you, well, warn me, 0:06:28.050 --> 0:06:32.230 by saying that this criticism, well, I could get us 0:06:32.330 --> 0:06:36.150 sued under our laws against free speech, you know, people 0:06:36.210 --> 0:06:40.800 taking offence. And now we see that Aboriginal culture is 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:45.380 in fact held to be so golden that promoting it 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:51.929 can even spare you jail time if you rape children. Yes, 0:06:52.430 --> 0:06:57.500 absolutely true. The Australian today reported that a district court 0:06:57.570 --> 0:07:01.140 judge imposed the lesser sentence for an Aboriginal community leader 0:07:01.620 --> 0:07:06.860 who'd raped and sexually abused four young Aboriginal children. Reduced 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.360 it because what the judge said was this man's significant 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:16.250 connection to country and his commendable attempts to keep his 0:07:16.370 --> 0:07:22.000 Aboriginal culture alive. Geoffrey Allen Brown, helped create the Pilbara 0:07:22.050 --> 0:07:25.950 Land Council. He was found guilty of abusing those children, 0:07:26.010 --> 0:07:31.410 girls and boys aged 10, 11, 13 and 14, over 0:07:31.510 --> 0:07:35.650 six years in Port Hedland. He'd shown no remorse, said 0:07:35.690 --> 0:07:40.690 the judge, but there were still mitigating factors, apparently including 0:07:40.710 --> 0:07:43.750 his past good character and the fact that he was 0:07:43.830 --> 0:07:47.930 caring for his wife. But also among those factors were 0:07:47.950 --> 0:07:52.470 that significant connection to country and his work to keep 0:07:52.530 --> 0:07:56.270 his culture alive. And as a result, his prison sentence 0:07:56.330 --> 0:07:59.770 was 10 and a half years, significantly less than the 0:07:59.830 --> 0:08:04.610 maximum for those crimes. Now, you might wonder why it 0:08:04.690 --> 0:08:07.750 matters that a rapist had been keeping his culture alive. 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.220 And I wonder whether a child rapist would have got 0:08:12.260 --> 0:08:15.730 a discount had he instead worked to turn Aborigines to 0:08:16.230 --> 0:08:24.310 Christianity instead. What makes Aboriginal culture so special? When, for instance, 0:08:24.650 --> 0:08:28.619 rates of sexual assaults and violence tend to be highest 0:08:28.660 --> 0:08:34.080 in exactly Aboriginal communities closest to traditional Aboriginal culture, out 0:08:34.140 --> 0:08:37.760 in remote and rural areas. Why is Aboriginal culture a 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:45.319 get-out-of-jail card? And when will we agree again that embracing 0:08:45.380 --> 0:08:50.870 Western culture, which includes the honouring of truth and individual responsibility, 0:08:51.850 --> 0:08:55.910 is the best ladder forward for us all, whites, Asians 0:08:56.130 --> 0:09:06.510 and Aborigines alike. I was joined earlier by Warren Mundine, businessman, 0:09:06.670 --> 0:09:10.400 former Labor national president and former adviser on Aboriginal issues 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:15.120 to two Liberal prime ministers. Warren Mundine, always great to 0:09:15.179 --> 0:09:19.480 talk to you. Should a man who raped and sexually 0:09:19.540 --> 0:09:26.230 abused four children aged 10, 11, 13 and 14 have 0:09:26.250 --> 0:09:30.559 his sentence slashed because of his supposed connection to country 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.760 and for keeping his culture alive. 0:09:33.780 --> 0:09:38.310 This is sickening. Let's not kid around. 0:09:38.330 --> 0:09:41.950 This is disgraceful. If you're talking about Aboriginal culture. 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.179 An Aboriginal man in our traditional culture, just like every 0:09:45.220 --> 0:09:48.290 other different culture around the world, would have speared this bloke. 0:09:48.330 --> 0:09:50.950 We would have speared him. We would have put him 0:09:51.110 --> 0:09:53.750 to death. And there's no doubt about that, because that's 0:09:53.790 --> 0:09:57.450 how strong our culture was in the past, that people 0:09:57.490 --> 0:10:03.790 like this were shunned. driven out of our tribes, driven 0:10:03.870 --> 0:10:07.700 out of our communities, and then hunted and speared because 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.540 you can't, you know, what a disgraceful thing. 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:12.760 And that's one part of it. 0:10:12.780 --> 0:10:17.000 The really disgraceful part about it is this reduction in 0:10:17.059 --> 0:10:17.640 his sentence. 0:10:18.650 --> 0:10:20.350 This is this is sickening. 0:10:20.730 --> 0:10:22.790 You know, I like to do I like to see 0:10:22.809 --> 0:10:27.120 a constitutional change that says that judges should be held 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:28.660 responsible for their decisions. 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:30.580 If I if I make bad. 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:33.459 Decisions in my work and in my job, I'm held 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:36.239 responsible for that. I think judges need to be as well. 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.010 I wonder whether he would have got a discount had 0:10:39.050 --> 0:10:44.849 he been working very hard at bringing Christianity instead, like 0:10:45.050 --> 0:10:48.330 that culture, to his community. Do you think he would 0:10:48.350 --> 0:10:50.050 have got a reduction in sentence for that? 0:10:50.530 --> 0:10:52.449 No, I don't think he would have got a reduction 0:10:52.530 --> 0:10:54.589 in sentence. And that would have been the right thing 0:10:54.630 --> 0:10:56.950 to do. You know, I'm tired of, you know, and 0:10:56.970 --> 0:10:58.970 this is what's happened to a lot of Aboriginals out 0:10:58.990 --> 0:11:02.500 there in the communities across Australia. are really tired in 0:11:02.540 --> 0:11:05.740 regard to how they're using our culture to let criminals 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.900 get away with things. You just saw the reports on 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:12.300 Port Hedland and the criminality that has been happening in 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:15.660 that community. That's not the only place it's happening across Australia. 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.210 And here you see the Western Australian government, you know, 0:11:18.250 --> 0:11:21.469 saying nothing to see here. Everything's fine. And yet you've 0:11:21.510 --> 0:11:24.410 got children who are being killed. You're getting children who 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:28.220 are being abused and raped. Now, that's not to say 0:11:28.260 --> 0:11:30.240 that all Aboriginals are doing it. Of course, they're not 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:32.780 doing it. But we've got to punish the people who are. 0:11:33.580 --> 0:11:36.990 Well, it's interesting you raise... The Port Hedland stuff has 0:11:37.050 --> 0:11:42.830 just been absolutely shocking, just really, really shocking. It seems 0:11:42.870 --> 0:11:46.370 to me there is now a fetish about Aboriginal culture 0:11:46.470 --> 0:11:51.050 among certain parts of the Australian left, the bureaucracy, et cetera, 0:11:51.580 --> 0:11:54.439 when in fact the worst levels of sexual abuse and 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.340 violence among Aboriginal Australians that we see seems to occur 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:03.920 in those communities out bush that are closest to traditional culture. 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:10.380 Shouldn't we be more open to thinking, well, That's Aboriginal culture. 0:12:10.460 --> 0:12:14.530 Maybe a shift to Western culture, to Christian ways or whatever, 0:12:14.690 --> 0:12:16.250 maybe that's not bad at all. 0:12:16.650 --> 0:12:20.410 Well, look, the reality is that a large percentage of 0:12:20.510 --> 0:12:25.729 Aboriginal people are Christians and they belong to different denominations. 0:12:26.910 --> 0:12:30.200 You see Lutherans, you see Catholics, you see Anglicans, you 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:31.540 see a wide range. 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:34.720 Of Aboriginal people who are of the Christian faith. 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.280 And I have On my father's side of the family, 0:12:37.380 --> 0:12:42.900 I have pastors, evangelical pastors who are Christians. But the 0:12:43.690 --> 0:12:50.429 issue here is we've got to stop using culture to 0:12:50.470 --> 0:12:52.209 let criminals and let. 0:12:52.190 --> 0:12:53.530 People get away with people. 0:12:54.710 --> 0:12:59.390 The Port Hedland is a good example where the elders there, 0:12:59.700 --> 0:13:03.560 the women of that community, were screaming out for help 0:13:03.970 --> 0:13:06.650 and screaming out for those kids to be looked after 0:13:06.730 --> 0:13:09.970 and to be protected. It was the failure of the 0:13:10.010 --> 0:13:14.680 Department of Child Protection, if that's its name, I don't 0:13:14.700 --> 0:13:17.939 know what its full name is, totally failed those kids, 0:13:18.300 --> 0:13:22.959 totally failed that community. And they talk about culture doing this. Well, 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.670 who were the culture people? The culture people were those 0:13:25.770 --> 0:13:28.270 women who were the elders in that community who were 0:13:28.290 --> 0:13:30.150 screaming out for people to do something. 0:13:30.910 --> 0:13:37.949 That's right. And the grandmother was begging for help. It 0:13:37.990 --> 0:13:40.960 wasn't given. And it seems to me a lot of 0:13:41.130 --> 0:13:45.420 child protection authorities around the country have had a record 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:49.300 of being reluctant to remove Aboriginal children from dangers that 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.780 they'd be removed from if they were white simply on 0:13:51.820 --> 0:13:54.620 the grounds of, oh, we can't repeat the Stolen Generation. 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:59.490 It's just terrible. Now, I mentioned at the top Bruce Pascoe. 0:14:00.309 --> 0:14:03.690 He is now selling a book attacking Christianity and the 0:14:03.730 --> 0:14:06.850 West and colonialism and rah, rah, rah, from what the 0:14:07.070 --> 0:14:12.929 ABC and other leftist outlets claim is an Aboriginal perspective. 0:14:13.610 --> 0:14:15.150 Does Bruce Pascoe speak for you? 0:14:15.980 --> 0:14:19.290 Look, I'm sick and tired of white people writing books. 0:14:19.210 --> 0:14:25.050 And attacking, attacking our communities and using our communities, you know, 0:14:25.090 --> 0:14:29.600 for their own personal economic and book selling claims. Look, 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.100 the reality is there are a lot of Aboriginal people 0:14:33.140 --> 0:14:33.820 who are Christians. 0:14:33.860 --> 0:14:35.300 There are a lot of Aboriginal people. 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.260 In fact, all of us have gone through colonisation and 0:14:38.300 --> 0:14:43.650 that and we have succeeded, we have survived, and we 0:14:43.670 --> 0:14:46.290 have done some great things in this country, across this country. 0:14:46.830 --> 0:14:48.740 I look post-Second World War. 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:53.360 You look at the incredible stride that has happened with 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.430 Aboriginal communities. We've got professors of surgery at Melbourne University. 0:14:57.450 --> 0:15:00.229 We've got doctors here. We've got people. 0:15:00.550 --> 0:15:02.790 I'm getting sick and tired of these people who are 0:15:02.890 --> 0:15:06.200 using victimhood. When I was a kid growing up, my parents, 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.540 and I grew up in an Aboriginal community, they were 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:13.040 very strong about not using excuses for the responsibility of 0:15:13.100 --> 0:15:16.920 my behaviour. We had to take our own responsibilities. We 0:15:17.580 --> 0:15:20.860 were to make our lives better. We were taught about family, 0:15:21.220 --> 0:15:23.840 faith and culture. They were the three things that were 0:15:23.900 --> 0:15:26.540 rammed in our heads. And those things were you got 0:15:26.580 --> 0:15:29.480 up in the morning, you went to work, you fed 0:15:29.500 --> 0:15:31.620 your family, you had a roof over. 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.580 Your head and you didn't commit crimes. 0:15:34.660 --> 0:15:37.490 You become an asset to your community and created jobs 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.170 for your people and made a future for your children 0:15:40.550 --> 0:15:43.510 and get educated in that. What is happening across this 0:15:43.570 --> 0:15:46.480 country now is that we've got this These people are 0:15:46.500 --> 0:15:50.220 coming out and claiming to Aboriginal, that their Aboriginality and 0:15:50.260 --> 0:15:55.670 that had no experience in Aboriginal communities. And, you know, 0:15:55.710 --> 0:15:58.630 you look at them and you say, well, okay, you know, 0:15:58.970 --> 0:16:02.370 Bruce Paxson, where is your evidence? Because all the Aboriginal 0:16:02.390 --> 0:16:06.430 people that he claims he's from their community have said 0:16:06.450 --> 0:16:08.950 he's not. And so, you know, let's stop, you know, 0:16:08.990 --> 0:16:12.140 let's get that correct in the first place. In the 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:16.270 second place, stop using Aboriginal culture and stop using it 0:16:16.390 --> 0:16:18.730 in a negative way to divide this country. 0:16:19.050 --> 0:16:22.990 We are all Australians. We are all proud Australians. I'm 0:16:23.010 --> 0:16:25.430 an Australian. Yes, I'm an Aboriginal person. 0:16:25.450 --> 0:16:29.380 Just like you can be an Australian, be a Dutch person, background, 0:16:29.420 --> 0:16:30.860 an ethnic background and all that type. 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.260 We want to bring our people together. 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:38.520 We have won so much in the last 50 years. 0:16:39.140 --> 0:16:41.530 And now in the last 20 years or so, we're 0:16:41.550 --> 0:16:42.670 starting to trash that. 0:16:42.910 --> 0:16:44.570 You look at the crime rates. 0:16:44.590 --> 0:16:47.690 You look at the things that are happening to Aboriginal 0:16:47.730 --> 0:16:50.550 people in their own communities who are screaming out for 0:16:50.590 --> 0:16:52.430 help and for the law. 0:16:52.620 --> 0:16:55.440 We've got to stop treating people differently. 0:16:55.740 --> 0:16:57.300 We are human beings. 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:00.260 Just like the rest of Australians are. So stop using 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.720 all this nonsense. In fact, I'll say something that will 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.790 even be more controversial. When I was up in traditional 0:17:06.830 --> 0:17:09.250 Aboriginal communities up in the in the north and. 0:17:09.210 --> 0:17:11.270 Out there, they said there's two things. 0:17:11.410 --> 0:17:15.210 There's traditional culture and there's bullshit culture. And what we're 0:17:15.250 --> 0:17:17.490 getting at the moment out of all these academics and 0:17:17.530 --> 0:17:19.969 all these people who claim to be Aboriginal people is 0:17:20.030 --> 0:17:21.190 just bullshit culture. 0:17:22.210 --> 0:17:25.470 Well, I can't help but nod furiously in agreement with you, 0:17:25.510 --> 0:17:28.890 Warren Mundine. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. 0:17:31.430 --> 0:17:34.119 After the break, Donald Trump starts the wobble on a 0:17:34.220 --> 0:17:38.720 barbaric plan to live stream the execution... of a jihadist 0:17:39.380 --> 0:17:48.240 by firing squad. Sean Spicer after this. Donald Trump's poll 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.790 numbers have fallen through the floor. One new reason for 0:17:51.830 --> 0:17:55.230 that is that petrol and diesel prices have rocketed since 0:17:55.270 --> 0:17:58.770 the US president started his war with Iran. That has 0:17:58.830 --> 0:18:02.389 made Trump desperate because he's now just Three weeks out 0:18:02.430 --> 0:18:05.670 from the midterm elections that could cost the Republicans control 0:18:05.990 --> 0:18:09.240 of the Senate and House of Representatives and turn him 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.500 into a lame duck president. He's desperate and looking for 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:18.889 scapegoats and distractions. Two examples this past week. First, he's 0:18:18.930 --> 0:18:22.530 now blaming Ukraine and its president, not himself, for those 0:18:22.570 --> 0:18:27.110 higher fuel prices, saying Ukraine should stop defending itself by 0:18:27.170 --> 0:18:31.690 destroying Russian oil refineries or he'll cut off US arms 0:18:32.030 --> 0:18:35.430 and intelligence. In fact, Ukraine should surrender. 0:18:36.690 --> 0:18:38.679 We said, you can do whatever you want to Russia, 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:42.600 don't hit the refineries, because that's a world problem that's caused. 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:45.820 And he wants to make problems for the world. He 0:18:45.859 --> 0:18:49.240 wants to make problems for our farmers, our ranchers, with 0:18:49.619 --> 0:18:53.940 diesel fuel, because Russia supplies a large portion of the 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.000 diesel fuel throughout the world. That's a war that should 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.940 have never started. And I think it's time for Ukraine 0:18:59.960 --> 0:19:01.010 to get a new president. 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.910 Trump is even saying he's going to buy Russian diesel 0:19:07.609 --> 0:19:12.450 to ease prices, which means giving Russia countless millions of 0:19:12.510 --> 0:19:17.590 dollars for its war. But there's more. Another distraction to 0:19:17.609 --> 0:19:21.010 make the Trump administration look tough. Trump's Secretary of War, 0:19:21.090 --> 0:19:25.880 Pete Hegseth, says he wants jihadist Nidal Hassan, a major 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.720 in the US Army who shot dead 13 fellow soldiers, 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:34.800 executed by firing squad and live-streamed. This was an idea 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:36.869 which Trump at first seemed to like. 0:19:37.770 --> 0:19:43.800 Did you personally authorise or approve the execution, the live 0:19:43.859 --> 0:19:46.859 stream execution of the court? Did I approve? 0:19:46.940 --> 0:19:55.040 Absolutely. Now, though, with religious leaders from the Pope down, horrified, 0:19:55.060 --> 0:19:58.219 Trump is reportedly going cold on this live streaming. He 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.060 says he's yet to actually approve it, but he's happy 0:20:01.100 --> 0:20:04.560 for the debate to keep going for days. Now, no 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:08.020 wonder even he thinks this might be too much, because... 0:20:09.430 --> 0:20:15.659 live streaming the shooting of a jihadist. It's barbaric. It 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:19.820 coarsens American culture. It shrinks the moral gap between the 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.280 West and the terrorists trying to destroy it by showing 0:20:23.300 --> 0:20:27.760 this contempt for human life, this glorying in death. And 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:33.140 it would probably backfire. It would incite terrorists, not frighten them. 0:20:33.530 --> 0:20:36.550 What's the bet that terrorists will soon film their own 0:20:36.590 --> 0:20:41.680 executions for us? even one nation so tough on terrorism 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:42.360 is against. 0:20:43.330 --> 0:20:45.430 Watching a person shot by a firing squad is not 0:20:45.470 --> 0:20:46.209 good for the children. 0:20:46.810 --> 0:20:47.929 I don't think it's good for anybody. 0:20:48.710 --> 0:20:53.050 And I would hope that it's not available. 0:20:53.390 --> 0:20:55.439 What is to be gained by watching it? What is 0:20:55.480 --> 0:21:00.340 to be gained? Bravo. I was joined earlier by Sean Spicer, 0:21:00.380 --> 0:21:05.010 Donald Trump's first White House spokesman. Sean Spicer, always great 0:21:05.050 --> 0:21:08.950 to see you. The Secretary of War wants this execution 0:21:08.990 --> 0:21:14.379 by firing squad of Major Hassan live streamed around the world. 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:19.200 That strikes me as barbaric, to be honest. Why does 0:21:19.220 --> 0:21:23.680 he want it? Look, here's what I'd say. 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:25.280 I think what he wants to do is make a 0:21:25.300 --> 0:21:30.770 very public display of the fact that Major Hassan committed 0:21:30.850 --> 0:21:34.189 an unbelievable and unspeakable act of terrorism, and they want 0:21:34.230 --> 0:21:36.960 to send a signal. I'll be honest with you. 0:21:36.980 --> 0:21:38.380 I'm with you on this. 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:43.720 I don't think that it serves any deterrence to. 0:21:43.660 --> 0:21:44.300 Do it live. 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.609 I think we all know he'll die. I think the U.S., 0:21:48.660 --> 0:21:52.129 when we captured Saddam Hussein, we did it correctly. We 0:21:52.150 --> 0:21:56.170 didn't make him become a martyr. I've rarely used the 0:21:56.970 --> 0:21:59.109 His name, I do it for this just because it's 0:21:59.130 --> 0:22:02.990 an international audience, but I don't want to give anyone 0:22:03.010 --> 0:22:06.210 who commits an act of terrorism sort of the notoriety 0:22:06.270 --> 0:22:09.960 that they so often seek. So I don't think that this, 0:22:10.060 --> 0:22:12.240 my guess, by the way, is that this doesn't happen. 0:22:13.260 --> 0:22:15.520 Even if they chose to go through with it, I 0:22:15.580 --> 0:22:19.180 can't think of a platform that would allow it to air. 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:23.159 I know, but the idea that Hegseth thinks this is 0:22:23.180 --> 0:22:26.919 a great idea I'm reading reports now that Donald Trump 0:22:27.020 --> 0:22:31.220 is thinking twice about this whole thing. He's gone cold 0:22:31.310 --> 0:22:35.210 on it. The Pope's against it. What do you think 0:22:35.230 --> 0:22:36.470 he'll ultimately decide? 0:22:37.810 --> 0:22:40.119 Well, even the vice president said, if they live stream it, 0:22:40.130 --> 0:22:43.090 I won't watch it. That sort of starts to give 0:22:43.130 --> 0:22:46.380 you a tell where the administration is. As I said, 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:48.780 I'm not really sure what the greater good is. I 0:22:48.820 --> 0:22:52.140 think everybody knows you're going to execute the guy. They 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:55.740 know that you'll have done it. I just don't know 0:22:55.850 --> 0:23:00.389 that showing it does any good. And it probably inspires 0:23:00.450 --> 0:23:03.369 some others and gives them some credence in the future 0:23:03.390 --> 0:23:05.070 when they say, well, look at what the U.S. 0:23:05.130 --> 0:23:05.350 Did. 0:23:06.130 --> 0:23:09.149 We now are going to do some unspeakable act and 0:23:09.430 --> 0:23:14.560 justify it using what we did here. Although this individual 0:23:14.619 --> 0:23:17.399 obviously went through the justice system here, and there's no 0:23:17.460 --> 0:23:21.419 question about his level of guilt or the degree of 0:23:21.600 --> 0:23:25.240 a heinous act that he committed. So I don't think 0:23:25.290 --> 0:23:28.030 it ultimately happens. I think the president is going to 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:31.520 recognize that this will be more of a backlash than 0:23:31.540 --> 0:23:34.380 anything else. There are some people, I've heard some arguments 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:36.560 that this just is a massive deterrent. 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:38.639 I don't think you need a massive deterrent. 0:23:39.010 --> 0:23:40.990 People know you're going to get sentenced to death if 0:23:41.030 --> 0:23:43.070 you commit an act like this in the United States. 0:23:43.730 --> 0:23:44.650 I don't think it's a surprise. 0:23:44.670 --> 0:23:45.949 I don't think we need to show anybody. 0:23:46.890 --> 0:23:50.090 I think you're right. It brutalizes America and encourages its enemies. 0:23:50.250 --> 0:23:53.080 I just don't see any win on this at all. 0:23:54.180 --> 0:23:58.780 Donald Trump's war on Iran, That's obviously caused oil prices 0:23:58.820 --> 0:24:01.900 to soar, especially the price of diesel, which is used 0:24:01.940 --> 0:24:04.540 by US farmers. You on your show have been talking 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:08.399 about how prices, fuel prices, et cetera, are one of 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:12.379 the keys to voter dissatisfaction ahead of next month's election, 0:24:12.420 --> 0:24:16.179 which looks like turning out badly perhaps for Australia. the 0:24:16.220 --> 0:24:20.740 presidents and the Republicans. The president's now blaming Ukraine, in fact, 0:24:21.300 --> 0:24:24.840 for the price by bombing Russian oil facilities, says Ukraine 0:24:24.859 --> 0:24:28.380 should give in to Russia, and is also buying Russian diesel, 0:24:28.420 --> 0:24:31.359 which to try to lower prices, but that just feeds 0:24:31.820 --> 0:24:36.340 Russia's war machine. Look, this just seems a terrible move 0:24:36.380 --> 0:24:37.240 to me. Your view? 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:41.940 Well, Andrew, I often say that there's two aspects to 0:24:41.980 --> 0:24:44.629 most things in Washington. There's the policy and the politics. 0:24:45.210 --> 0:24:46.990 On the policy thing, one of the things that I 0:24:47.170 --> 0:24:48.940 would further add to your argument is that there's a 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:50.740 lot of people who don't believe that Russia has the 0:24:50.780 --> 0:24:54.159 capability or the capacity to actually follow through on the 0:24:54.220 --> 0:24:56.109 pledges that they made. I mean, it's talking about hundreds 0:24:56.119 --> 0:24:58.389 of thousands of tons of diesel. There's a lot of 0:24:58.430 --> 0:25:01.850 people that question whether that's even possible considering the strikes 0:25:01.890 --> 0:25:05.090 that Ukraine has made on their reserves. On the politics 0:25:05.150 --> 0:25:06.850 of it, look, this is where I get it a 0:25:06.890 --> 0:25:08.990 little bit more, which is the president is trying to 0:25:09.070 --> 0:25:13.709 create the perception, especially among farm state Republicans. So you're 0:25:13.730 --> 0:25:19.669 talking Michigan, Iowa, Ohio, places where diesel plays significant. into 0:25:19.710 --> 0:25:23.380 the economy, the agriculture economy of so many voters by 0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:27.760 showing that I'm willing to do whatever it takes to 0:25:27.820 --> 0:25:30.470 bring down the cost. Obviously, he is not in a 0:25:30.490 --> 0:25:33.350 position right now to just stop the war in Iran. 0:25:33.670 --> 0:25:36.270 And if he does, I would question how quick prices 0:25:36.310 --> 0:25:39.440 would drop in that. This, in my opinion, is trying 0:25:39.460 --> 0:25:42.930 to create the perception to voters that that he's doing 0:25:43.070 --> 0:25:47.810 anything and everything within his capabilities to bring down the cost. Unfortunately, 0:25:47.830 --> 0:25:52.060