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Speaker 1: I'll get our team. Welcome to another installment of the

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Speaker 1: Bloody You Project with Bloody David Gillespian, Bloody, Tiffany and

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Speaker 1: Cook is not here. She's on sabbatical and do you

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Speaker 1: know where she is?

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Speaker 2: D no idea?

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Speaker 1: She's in India, all right? What she got exactly? What

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Speaker 1: is she doing there? Well, she's gone for a bit

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Speaker 1: of sight seeing. She's gone with a group. She's staying

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Speaker 1: with a bunch of I should have paid more attention.

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Speaker 2: You've got no idea what she's doing.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, She's spending some time, like a retreat.

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Speaker 1: And I know that. I saw a podcast podcast at

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Speaker 1: Post today. She just finished spending I think two nights

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Speaker 1: in a monastery or something, and so she's just out

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Speaker 1: and about seeing another very different part of the world.

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Speaker 1: And if her reports or anything to go by, she

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Speaker 1: seems to be enjoying it. But she'll be back next time,

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Speaker 1: so you can you can ask her about India. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that's where have you ever been? Have you ever

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Speaker 1: been there?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Only very briefly as part of a business thing

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Speaker 2: I did. I was there for maybe two or three

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Speaker 2: days in maybe Delhi. I'm thinking, so, No, I haven't.

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Speaker 2: I haven't been to India.

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Speaker 1: Well you have, but you really didn't say anything.

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Speaker 2: No. No.

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Speaker 1: I went to Fiji last year four eighten hours because

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Speaker 1: I had to do a gig and I literally got in, slept,

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Speaker 1: got up. I wasn't named an Ada. Now it's like,

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Speaker 1: but there, Yeah, I would have been. Actually I got

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Speaker 1: in it like yeah, probably sixteen hours or something to

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Speaker 1: do a forty five minute keynote.

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Speaker 2: The Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.

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Speaker 1: Hardly, hardly I can I.

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Speaker 2: Can top that one. So I used to commute regularly

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Speaker 2: to San Francisco when I was doing my tech startup days.

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Speaker 2: So by I commute, I mean I would fly there

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Speaker 2: every fortnight, spent a fortnight there, a fortnight back here.

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Speaker 2: There was one time I had to come back to

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Speaker 2: Brisbane for a wedding on a Saturday night and then

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Speaker 2: be back the following morning. So I think I was

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Speaker 2: actually in town maybe less than ten hours between flights

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Speaker 2: back from the US, and each flight is a twelve

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Speaker 2: hour flight, so that was a bit hectic.

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Speaker 1: I think it's it's more, isn't. It's like that's if

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Speaker 1: you go to even that. I think it's fourteen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm probably measuring a bit from Sydney to San Francisco,

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Speaker 2: which was the bit where I got to sleep.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, well you're up the pointy end, right,

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Speaker 1: so you get quicker than the rest of you.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's right, Yeah, that's exactly right. I've talked to

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Speaker 2: you about that analogy with the education system at some

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Speaker 2: time in the past, haven't I, which is it's all

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Speaker 2: like us all being on a plane and the plane

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Speaker 2: gets to London at the same time, but some of

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Speaker 2: us pay a lot more for our seats and have

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Speaker 2: a nicer ride, but at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: we still all get to London at the same time.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I like, I'm not posh at it. Well,

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Speaker 1: clearly I'm not posh, but I if I fly internationally

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Speaker 1: in my old age, I tend to fly business if

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Speaker 1: I can. I'm not trying to sound like a snob.

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Speaker 1: I'd rather I did a gig in Ireland a few

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Speaker 1: years ago and I've never been there till this gig,

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Speaker 1: and they and they're like it was going to cost

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Speaker 1: them too much, and I said, fly me business and

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Speaker 1: put me up somewhere nice and then don't pay me

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Speaker 1: for the gig. And they're like, Okay, So I got

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Speaker 1: a free trip to Ireland and went business and my

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Speaker 1: mum's mum was born in Ireland, so it was just

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Speaker 1: like a free little holiday. But have you been to Ireland?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Once again, very briefly, to inspect a software facility.

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Speaker 2: So I've seen an airport in the inside of an

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Speaker 2: office building.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you must have done a lot of travel. I

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Speaker 1: bet you're glad those days are over.

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Speaker 2: Very glad. Yes, it was a big reason why I

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Speaker 2: stopped doing that.

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Speaker 1: Now, of course, we are not a travel show.

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Speaker 2: We aren't.

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Speaker 1: No, we're not. You wrote a You wrote an article

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Speaker 1: which I applauded on LinkedIn, and I'm sure it's up

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Speaker 1: on your website or I'm sure it's somewhere else. But

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Speaker 1: if you're not on LinkedIn, everyone get on LinkedIn. And

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Speaker 1: if you don't follow David Gillespie, follow him. He wrote

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Speaker 1: an article yesterday called Beyond First Impressions, Escaping the Psychopaths

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Speaker 1: Charm and I thought, now, as much as you don't

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Speaker 1: want to hear this, it kind of intersects with my

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Speaker 1: stuff a little bit, not the psychopathy stuff, but like

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Speaker 1: reading people and first impressions and all of that. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I found it fascinating and like you were talking essentially

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Speaker 1: about what you see up front is often not what

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Speaker 1: you get further down the line.

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Speaker 2: It came from, you know, just I look around all

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Speaker 2: the time for interesting bits and pieces, and one that

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Speaker 2: sort of came through my feed, if you like, yesterday

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Speaker 2: warning because I'm trying to put something out every day

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Speaker 2: now just because keep me in practice. And yesterday morning,

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Speaker 2: there was this experiment out of the Duke University in

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Speaker 2: the United States. And look, you'd be familiar with these

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Speaker 2: kinds of experiments, you know, because you're in the area

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Speaker 2: of psychology, and so there's a lot of BS experiments

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Speaker 2: done in psychology. But this one, this one struck me

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Speaker 2: as a little bit interesting. This was one where they

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Speaker 2: are What they did was they asked people to value

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Speaker 2: sort of like a garage sale box of stuff. So

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Speaker 2: they give people a box of stuff that was closed,

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Speaker 2: and then they'd say, right open the box up and

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Speaker 2: give us a value for the things that you find

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Speaker 2: in the box. And then they do that and I

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Speaker 2: think it was maybe five or ten boxes they'd do

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Speaker 2: that and ask them to value them. Now, of course,

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Speaker 2: being a psychology experiment, there's a trick you know, there's

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Speaker 2: a hidden trick. And the hidden trick here is that

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Speaker 2: all the boxes have exactly the same value, but they

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Speaker 2: don't tell them that. But the box are arranged differently.

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Speaker 2: So in some of the boxes, the items at the

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Speaker 2: top are much more valuable than the items at the bottom.

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Speaker 2: So you might find a necklace or something at the

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Speaker 2: top of one box, and you know, and someone's old

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Speaker 2: shoes or something at the bottom of it. But the

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Speaker 2: value of the boxes was all approximately equal. But what

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Speaker 2: they found is that people always valued the boxes where

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Speaker 2: they found the more valuable things first much much higher

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Speaker 2: than where they found the more valuable things last or

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Speaker 2: in the middle. So and what they said was, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this proves something that's been proven quite a bit in psychology,

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Speaker 2: which is that first impressions count a lot. So our

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Speaker 2: first impression of something, and in this case it's the

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Speaker 2: first impression of the box, is that this is a

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Speaker 2: more valuable box because the first thing I saw was

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Speaker 2: more valuable, and even if I eventually got to something

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Speaker 2: that valuable in another box, my first impression had a

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Speaker 2: lot more weight. And so I considered that other box

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Speaker 2: where I found someone's old sneakers at the top to

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Speaker 2: be less valuable than the one where I found the

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Speaker 2: gold chain at the top. And so this confirmed previous research,

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Speaker 2: and that in itself is an interesting The twist in

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Speaker 2: this research is that what they did was they got

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Speaker 2: that cut of things, just like everyone else does. But

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Speaker 2: then they said to the people, we'd like you to

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Speaker 2: come back tomorrow, so don't give us a value now.

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Speaker 2: So there was another group, a control group. Don't give

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Speaker 2: us a value now. Go home, think about it, come

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Speaker 2: back tomorrow and tell us what you think the value

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Speaker 2: of the boxes were. And what invariably happened is when

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Speaker 2: people came back tomorrow and then gave their assessment of

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Speaker 2: the value, they were much more likely to get it right.

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Speaker 2: So they were much more likely to say, you know what,

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Speaker 2: these boxes are all about the same value and that

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Speaker 2: was the correct answer. So if you gave people time,

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Speaker 2: if you gave them a night to sleep on it,

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Speaker 2: if you like, and do whatever else, I mean, who knows.

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Speaker 2: They might have googled things, done some valuations themselves, or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Whatever they did, it didn't matter. The point was when

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Speaker 2: they came back twenty four hours later, they got the

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Speaker 2: right answer. They'd had time to properly digest and so

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Speaker 2: this was an interesting study because if you translate that

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Speaker 2: into relationships or workplaces or anything else and start to

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Speaker 2: think about the evolutionary reason why we operate on first impressions,

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Speaker 2: that's to me, that's where it starts to become really interesting.

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Speaker 2: I always find it interesting when you ask the question

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Speaker 2: why why would humans why would be environmentally involved in

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Speaker 2: favor first impressions, because this is not something unique to

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Speaker 2: people who do psychology studies. I mean, as you would know,

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Speaker 2: this is everybody everything. All the time we judge something.

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Speaker 2: We do judge a book by its cover. We do

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Speaker 2: make a snap judgment about whether we want to pick

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Speaker 2: the book up and read it, whether we want to

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Speaker 2: watch the television show, whether we even want to listen

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Speaker 2: to Craig or his guest, you know, within the first

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Speaker 2: few seconds of hearing about it. And the reason we

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Speaker 2: do that is because our brains and bodies are optimized

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Speaker 2: to save energy, and one of the most expensive things

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Speaker 2: we can do is think. It is an absolute energy hog.

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Speaker 2: Twenty five percent of the energy we can use is

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Speaker 2: spent thinking, and that's for an organ that occupies about

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Speaker 2: two percent of our body. So it's a massive energy hog. Now,

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Speaker 2: in these days of food everywhere, all the time, far

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Speaker 2: too much of it. We probably don't think too much

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Speaker 2: about energy scarcity, but if you needed to find the

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Speaker 2: food to supply that twenty five percent, and food was

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Speaker 2: really scarce, as it is in any hunter gatherers society.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you do. You watch that show

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Speaker 2: alone that's been on SBS where the people you know

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Speaker 2: in the wilderness, you know, think of those people and

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Speaker 2: how keen they would be to waste energy When you're

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Speaker 2: getting one fish to eat, if you're lucky every three days,

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Speaker 2: you're not wasting energy on anything. And our bodies are

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Speaker 2: optimized that way, our brains are optimized that way. So

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Speaker 2: we take lots of shortcuts. And one of the shortcuts

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Speaker 2: we take is first impressions. So we figure and evolutionary

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Speaker 2: has told us. Evolution has told us that most of

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Speaker 2: the time we're right. More often than not, if we

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Speaker 2: make a judgment in the first few seconds, we're right.

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Speaker 2: And that was the rule that was being applied by

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Speaker 2: these people when they looked at these boxes in this

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Speaker 2: garage sale experiment. The first thing they saw was valuable.

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Speaker 2: First impression. This is a valuable box. No more thinking required,

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Speaker 2: look at all that energy I've saved as But if

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Speaker 2: you force people to expend the energy, if you force

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Speaker 2: people to actually think about it, you get a different result.

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Speaker 2: Now why I say this is important with psychopaths is

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Speaker 2: psychopaths rely on us making judgments on first impressions because

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Speaker 2: everything about a psychopath is fake. They lie about everything,

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Speaker 2: and they spend their entire lives working very hard on

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Speaker 2: a first impression that sells you. Most people when they

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Speaker 2: first encounter a psychopath will tell you that they are

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Speaker 2: the most charming, fabulous person they have ever met. And

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Speaker 2: that's because they are very very good at reflecting back

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Speaker 2: to you exactly what you want to say. They are

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Speaker 2: masters of first impressions. And if we only operate on

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Speaker 2: a first impression, we will get sucked in every single time,

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Speaker 2: both as an employer of psychopaths and in relationships. Yes,

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Speaker 2: operate on a first impression and you are in danger.

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Speaker 2: So I guess the tip out of all of this

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Speaker 2: is don't take the time, get the you know, the

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Speaker 2: extra night into the process, get the twenty four hours,

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Speaker 2: get the backup research. You can and will probably make

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Speaker 2: the correct decision if you put the first oppression aside

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Speaker 2: and say, you know what, I'm not making a decision

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Speaker 2: about this until tomorrow. Give your brain time to digest

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Speaker 2: everything it saw, if it's if it's a job application,

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Speaker 2: give give yourself time to follow through a process of

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Speaker 2: checking the information you're being given, because it's too late

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Speaker 2: after you've ended over the job or entered into a

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Speaker 2: relationship with this person. So that's the lesson out of this,

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Speaker 2: I think, which is, yes, we do work on first impressions,

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Speaker 2: but there's a really easy cure time. Give yourself time

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Speaker 2: to spend that cognitive power, to spend that thinking on

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Speaker 2: thinking about whether your first impression is right. So had

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Speaker 2: you asked those people with the garage boxes on the

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Speaker 2: first day when they did it, which is the most

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Speaker 2: vailable box, they would have said what everyone else said,

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Speaker 2: which is the one I saw with the most valuable

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Speaker 2: thing at the top. But don't ask them, don't ask,

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Speaker 2: don't get them to make a decision there, and then

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Speaker 2: ask them the next day and you get a very

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Speaker 2: different answer. And that's a rule we should be thinking

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Speaker 2: about in our whole lives, which is give yourself time

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Speaker 2: when encountering new information to decide whether your first impression

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Speaker 2: is correct.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the things I advise people is to

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Speaker 1: trust slowly and respect slowly. And I don't say that

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Speaker 1: because I want them to think everybody is a potential

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Speaker 1: enemy or but I just say, you know, it's like,

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Speaker 1: how many people do you meet where initially they're exactly

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Speaker 1: what you said, charismatic, charming, affable, likable, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: articulate and all of that, and then down the track

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Speaker 1: they're nothing like that, or their energy is totally different.

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Speaker 1: And it's quite a significant percentage of people, even people

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Speaker 1: who say to me, when we first started going out,

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Speaker 1: it was like this, and then it's like three months past,

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Speaker 1: and then this curtain got drawn back onto the actual

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Speaker 1: person and it had been you know, a fucking charade

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Speaker 1: for three months or six months or or one week

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Speaker 1: sometimes for example. But did you ever read that book

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Speaker 1: Blink by Malcolm glad Well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I did, Yes, the whole book about first impressions. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So this is that part of this research is really

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Speaker 2: old news, like that book and lots of others, plenty

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Speaker 2: of plenty of research that confirms, yes, we do, in

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Speaker 2: fact work on first impressions. So as if anyone needed

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Speaker 2: that proof to them, there's a mountain of research that

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Speaker 2: proves we do. The interesting part of this is how

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Speaker 2: do you fix that? And you know it's maybe a

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Speaker 2: statement of the bleeding obvious, will give yourself time, but

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Speaker 2: this is this experiment actually proves it.

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Speaker 1: So when when, for want of a better term, when

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Speaker 1: are snap judgments? Okay? Because we don't always have the

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Speaker 1: luxury of time, right.

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Speaker 2: So when you're on I guess, when you're starving to

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Speaker 2: death on a loan, then snap judgments are a pretty

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Speaker 2: good idea because you want to conserve mean energy and

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Speaker 2: the cost of expending energy thinking about things is real

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Speaker 2: and maybe more than the cost of getting it wrong

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Speaker 2: if you make a snap judgment. So, and you might say, well,

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Speaker 2: where's your evidence for that, Gillespie, Well, the evidence is

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Speaker 2: evolution favors it. We wouldn't have gotten to this point

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Speaker 2: with this built in facility if evolution didn't say people

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Speaker 2: who tend to make snap judgments tend to survive better

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Speaker 2: than people who don't.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well yeah, and I mean there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of instances where we have to especially not so

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Speaker 1: much in twenty twenty four, but still, I guess sociologically

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Speaker 1: in a way. But like evolutionarily, there were so many

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Speaker 1: dangerous situations and so many predators, and so much inherent

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Speaker 1: risk in the world that we, not me and you,

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Speaker 1: but live in that you had to be constantly vigilant

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Speaker 1: and constantly or at least regularly making decisions quickly because

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Speaker 1: it was a lot more life and death back then.

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Speaker 2: It's how we developed. I mean, you know, no, you

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Speaker 2: don't like me going off topic on these things, but

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Speaker 2: it's interesting how we developed. The thing that is essentially

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Speaker 2: a sixth sense about what other humans are speak, are thinking,

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Speaker 2: is using that exact capacity. So in our evolutionary environment,

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Speaker 2: there's the quick and the dead, and the way to

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Speaker 2: be the quickest is that if somebody else's did you know,

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Speaker 2: there's that old joke about you know, running from a bear.

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Speaker 2: I don't have to run faster than the bear. I

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Speaker 2: just have to run faster than you and me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 2: And so that applies in an evolutionary sense, which is

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Speaker 2: that we developed to facility to communicate with each other

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Speaker 2: which did not involve having to think about communicating with

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Speaker 2: each other about danger. So we develop the ability to

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Speaker 2: read each other's movements, expressions, even tone in the voice,

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Speaker 2: and understand danger without the word danger actually being said,

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Speaker 2: and so that is done using a facility in human

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Speaker 2: brain which is called mirror neurons, which essentially we have

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Speaker 2: neurons that are mimicking the things that they see in

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Speaker 2: others at high speed sublight speeds, well not sublight, but

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Speaker 2: light speed mirroring. So even before we have time to

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Speaker 2: even think about what's happening, our brain has already figured

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Speaker 2: out what's happening from what it's read from other humans

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Speaker 2: and the way they're interacting. Now, when you apply that

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Speaker 2: in modern society, what that means is that we can

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Speaker 2: read each other's more oceans on autopilot, we feel. It's

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Speaker 2: almost like we are directly connected to another person. When

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Speaker 2: we see another person experience pain, we experience it too.

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Speaker 2: We feel it, and we call that empathy. But it's

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Speaker 2: actually a really powerful mechanism that was evolved to protect

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Speaker 2: us from danger, which is we know about something being

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Speaker 2: dangerous before we can even think about it being dangerous,

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Speaker 2: before even the person that it's happening to can think

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Speaker 2: about it being dangerous. It's all happening in milliseconds and

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Speaker 2: protecting us, and we're running and then five minutes later,

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Speaker 2: as we're running along we start to think about what

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Speaker 2: exactly am I running from. I don't know, but my

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Speaker 2: brain said run. And that facility is the thing that

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Speaker 2: psychopaths lack. By the way, they cannot they cannot read

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Speaker 2: another person's emotions on autopilot like that. They actually have

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Speaker 2: to do the thinking bit, and that delay while they

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Speaker 2: think about what we're feeling is often detectable. So one

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Speaker 2: of the surest ways to detect whether a person in

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Speaker 2: a group of people may be a psychopath is watch

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Speaker 2: how the group reacts to something traumatic happening, either on

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Speaker 2: television or in a movie or in real life, or

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Speaker 2: someone telling a story about something traumatic in their life.

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Speaker 2: Don't look at them, look at the people listening and

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Speaker 2: see how they react to that event. Most people will

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Speaker 2: react automatically and in almost at light speed in terms

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Speaker 2: of real time reaction. Some people will have to think

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Speaker 2: about it, and that delay will be noticeable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know how I know I'm not a sociopath,

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Speaker 1: But a sociopath would say what I just said, by

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Speaker 1: the way, exactly what a sociopath would say. But I

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Speaker 1: cry about four times a day when I watched emotional

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Speaker 1: shit on Instagram, like some soldier coming home and his

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Speaker 1: kids running up to him or her. I'm like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I've.

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Speaker 2: Got some bad news for you there, Craig.

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Speaker 1: Don't tell me they're not real.

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Speaker 2: No, No, I don't know. Maybe they are, maybe they're not.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. But your reaction is interesting, girl, So

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Speaker 2: blubbering like a baby when something emotional is presented to you.

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Speaker 1: So there's a chance I'm still a psychopath.

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Speaker 2: That's a possibility, is actually an indication of a failure

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Speaker 2: of the higher order control mechanisms of an emotional response.

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Speaker 1: So psychopathe shut up, Gillespie, shut up.

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Speaker 2: It's not that psychopaths can't experience emotions, it's that they

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Speaker 2: can't experience the higher order control of emotions. So one

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Speaker 2: of the things that quite a few studies have identified

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Speaker 2: about psychopaths is that they do feel the four basic emotions,

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Speaker 2: one of which is sadness really really powerfully, and so

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Speaker 2: will inexplicably cry in response to something emotional being projected

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Speaker 2: when others around them don't find them, you know that

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Speaker 2: intense Wow.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you've just cleared that up for me. Now.

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Speaker 2: I'm not trying to diagnose or anything there, Craig. I'm

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Speaker 2: just I'm just saying that it's not. It's not the

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Speaker 2: get out of jail free card you think it might be.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's a pity. That's you know, there is there

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Speaker 1: is a term in psychology for what you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: which is understanding how other people think, which is called

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Speaker 1: theory of mind. Yes, that's the that's the capacity to

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Speaker 1: understand someone else's version.

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Speaker 2: It's a bit different theory of mind.

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Speaker 1: It's a bit different, but it's kind of understand. It's

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Speaker 1: having an insight into someone else's kind of Well.

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Speaker 2: Theory of mind is important because it, as far as

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Speaker 2: we know, we're the only species capable of doing it,

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Speaker 2: which is understanding what another person's perspective is. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's famous examples of the chimpanzee experiments where they taught

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Speaker 2: chimpanzees to talk endlessly, you know, taught them whole alphabets

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Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and they comprehensively failed

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Speaker 2: theory of mind every single time because never once, even

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Speaker 2: after they could talk essentially by pointing to symbols and

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Speaker 2: all that sort of thing, never once did they ask

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Speaker 2: the human what they thought or how they reacted. Because

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Speaker 2: to them the concept that the human was thinking too

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Speaker 2: was an impossible concept. And that's what theory of mind

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Speaker 2: is is putting yourself in somebody else's shoes. Now, the

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Speaker 2: interesting thing about theory of mind is psychopaths are really

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Speaker 2: really good at it. They have to spend their life

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Speaker 2: doing it because the rest of us are doing it

397
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Speaker 2: automatically on empathy autopilot, where our mirror and your owns

398
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Speaker 2: are firing. We understand what someone's thinking without even thinking

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Speaker 2: about it, whereas a psychopath actually has to think about

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Speaker 2: it and then decide to imitate that behavior. So theory

401
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 2: of mind is something that psychopaths are really really excellent at,

402
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 2: and that's possibly why I think the theory of mind

403
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: study suggests that most people can't do theory of mind

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Speaker 2: under the age of about three, I think is about

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Speaker 2: the number. So that when they've done the studies on

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00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 2: very young children, they you know that, you know, the

407
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 2: sorts of studies they do where they they ask them

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Speaker 2: to think, you know, is the lully under you know,

409
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 2: under that hat or under that one, and what would

410
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Speaker 2: the person have been thinking and all that sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't work on a young child. But a young

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Speaker 2: child is capable of empathy, very very capable of empathy.

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Speaker 2: But they're not capable of theory of mind.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing is they can understand

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Speaker 1: how other people think. They just don't care.

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Speaker 2: That's right. They have a very good understanding of how

417
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Speaker 2: you think, but the only purpose in understanding that is

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Speaker 2: to manipulate you.

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Speaker 1: Well, that actually gives them a strategic and sociological advantage really,

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Speaker 1: that they can understand how you think. You know. That's

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Speaker 1: have you in all your businesses? I guess over the

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Speaker 1: years you've employed a fair few people or no, like yourself,

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Speaker 1: have you higher? What's your I've employed about five hundred people,

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Speaker 1: not anymore, but over the years, And did you fuck

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Speaker 1: it up? Did you employed people and then three months?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think anyone who says to you, no, I've

429
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Speaker 2: always perfectly employed, you know, I've never ever made a

430
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Speaker 2: mistake in someone I've employed is lying, is absolutely lying.

431
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 2: Because the reality is we do go with first impressions.

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Speaker 2: We do believe what is put on a resume. We

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Speaker 2: do believe what people tell us because all humans default

434
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 2: to believing. Remember we've talked before about this tit for

435
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 2: tap thing, which is in human interaction. The thing that

436
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: holds us together as a community is that we default

437
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 2: to believing what other humans tell us. And the only

438
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 2: time we don't believe what they tell us is when

439
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 2: they prove that they are a liar. And even then,

440
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 2: if they then seek forgiveness and then be honest, we'll

441
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 2: give them another chance. So our default is to believe

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00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 2: what people tell us, and unfortunately that works against us.

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00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: That plus the first impression in a job interview means

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00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 2: we've got a very low probability of detecting a psychopath.

445
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 2: But the cure to that is give yourself time and

446
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 2: check their references.

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00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: Exactly. I made a fair few mistakes, I'll be honest.

448
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: But also the other thing too is you know, so

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00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: it's almost like the distance between person and persona like

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00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: in the interview you get the you know, you get

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00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: the show, the Craig Show or whatever it is. You know,

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00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: it's like, well, this is a person you're trying to be. Yeah,

453
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: this is a person trying to be what they think

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00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: they need to be to get over the line in

455
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 1: this context, yep, yeah yeah.

456
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: So but unlike when you're dating someone, so the same

457
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: thing applies when you're potentially seeking out a mate. You know,

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00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 2: if you're on a first date with someone, it's a

459
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: job interview, but it's less formal, and it's you've got

460
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: less backup should you choose to use it in that

461
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 2: when you're employing someone, even though a lot of people think,

462
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 2: you know what, my judgment is fabulous, I love this person.

463
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 2: They are terrific. I'm not going to check anything, and

464
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: that's what a lot of people do. But they could

465
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: check it if they wanted to. They could verify the references.

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00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 2: They could talk to people who've worked for this person,

467
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: which is what they should do. They could make sure

468
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 2: they understand what every minute of this person's career look like,

469
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 2: not just the bits they've chosen to highlight on their resume.

470
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 2: They could do that. But when you're potentially interviewing a partner,

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00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 2: let's say you don't have all of that. All you've

472
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: got is the facade, and you've got to give yourself

473
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 2: time if you cannot decide based on the first impressions

474
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: of that facade, this person is ideal for me, because

475
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 2: the more ideal they are, honestly, the more likely they

476
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: are a psychopath, because that's what psychopaths are good at.

477
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: Doing which is giving you the mask you want to see.

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00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: So the great news is everyone, if you think you've

479
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: found your dream partner, you've probably found a psychopath.

480
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 2: So don't sign your house over to them.

481
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: Yourself sometime and do a prenup whatever that is. We'll

482
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: say goodbye fair but mate as always entertaining and we

483
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: appreciate you.

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00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 2: Thanks mate, absolute pleasure, see you, Greg