Speaker 1: Life sharing well tonight, we haven't seen a budget reply speech.
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton has delivered a pitch for Australia if he
Speaker 1: were the Prime minister. There have been major policy announcements tonight,
Speaker 1: including a two year ban on foreign investors from buying
Speaker 1: Ozsie Holmes and slashing immigration levels to just one hundred
Speaker 1: and forty thousand a year. This is a bold speech
Speaker 1: and Dutton is unapologetic as he announces controversial and tough
Speaker 1: measures in housing, immigration, energy and crime.
Speaker 2: This is because this Labor government has made life so
Speaker 2: much tougher for Australians, because this Labor government has set
Speaker 2: our country on a very dangerous course.
Speaker 1: Dutton will fight the next election from this platform. He's
Speaker 1: got nineteen seats that he needs to win to get
Speaker 1: into majority government. It is a tough ask. He won't
Speaker 1: get close without a point of difference. His vision tonight
Speaker 1: clearly sets the coalition apart from Labour's vision for Australia.
Speaker 1: You think back to rud howard two thousand and seven election.
Speaker 1: The policies were virtually identical, but Peter Dutton and Anthony
Speaker 1: Albanesi's vision for Australia couldn't be further apart.
Speaker 2: Today, millions of Australians are struggling to pay their bills.
Speaker 2: Even going to the supermarket and petrol station has become
Speaker 2: stressful for so many. Prime Minister, Australians are genuinely hurting
Speaker 2: under your government.
Speaker 1: Here tonight, in the past half an hour, Peter Dutton
Speaker 1: has given a speech playing to the coalition's strengths and
Speaker 1: brutally exposing Labour's areas of weakness and vulnerability. He's outlined
Speaker 1: major policies in the area of domestic violence, immigration, housing.
Speaker 3: Health and energy.
Speaker 1: He knows that in this cost of crisis, with social
Speaker 1: cohesion at breaking point, plus the scandal of detainees released
Speaker 1: onto the streets without monitoring only to allegedly bash.
Speaker 3: A grandmother in one case.
Speaker 1: With this backdrop, Dutton knows the public are looking to
Speaker 1: his opposition and wondering if they've got the credibility, the
Speaker 1: substance and the policies.
Speaker 3: To be in office.
Speaker 1: Well, here were the key points from Dutton's Budget reply
Speaker 1: speech that we've just heard. On immigration, Dutton tied this
Speaker 1: closely to home ownership. In a major policy announcement, Dutton
Speaker 1: said he'll ban for two years foreign investors and temporary
Speaker 1: residents from buying existing homes in Australia have a listener.
Speaker 2: We believe that by rebalancing the migration program and taking
Speaker 2: decisive action on the housing crisis, the Coalition can free
Speaker 2: up almost forty thousand additional homes in the first year
Speaker 2: and well over one hundred thousand homes in the first
Speaker 2: five years. First, we will implement a two year ban
Speaker 2: on foreign investors and temporary residents purchasing existing homes in Australia.
Speaker 1: A ban for two years. That's a big policy announcement.
Speaker 1: He'll also cut immigration to one hundred and forty thousand
Speaker 1: for the first two years, he says, to recognize the
Speaker 1: urgency of the home ownership crisis. He says then permanent
Speaker 1: migration levels will increase to one hundred and fifty thousand
Speaker 1: in the third year and one sixty thousand in the
Speaker 1: fourth year. Now, what we've seen under Labor is that
Speaker 1: immigration levels have soared to over half a million a year.
Speaker 3: Dutton's moved to slash it to.
Speaker 1: Just one hundred and forty thousand for the first two
Speaker 1: years is likely to be a popular policy. The high
Speaker 1: number of immigrants has put extreme pressure on housing, particularly
Speaker 1: in the rental market and it's pushed up inflation and
Speaker 1: thus contributed to rate rises. Now, home ownership, as we
Speaker 1: heard tonight, it was a major pledge of Dutton's and
Speaker 1: this will be his mantra in the lead up to
Speaker 1: the next election. He says the dream of home ownership
Speaker 1: has turned into a nightmare, and he says even finding
Speaker 1: somewhere to rent is nearly impossible.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: It's wonderful that parents in some circumstances with financial means
Speaker 2: can help their kids into a home, but I will
Speaker 2: never accept a situation where the only people who can
Speaker 2: afford to buy a home in our country are those
Speaker 2: with the support of their parents.
Speaker 1: Now, energy was another area we heard a lot from
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton tonight on energy. In an announcement that will
Speaker 1: upset the likes of billionaire Twiggy Forest, Dutton said he'd
Speaker 1: pull the proposed thirteen billion dollar mega giveaway to green
Speaker 1: hydrogen and critical minerals. He says these projects should stand
Speaker 1: on their own without taxpayer subsidies. He also said he'd
Speaker 1: defund the Environmental Defender's Office, which is blocking projects, and
Speaker 1: he'll unlocked gas in key basins.
Speaker 2: There's little chance of labor bringing new gas supply to
Speaker 2: the system because it's ideologically opposed to guess and it's
Speaker 2: more worried about winning votes from the Greens inter city
Speaker 2: seats that it is worried about people living in suburbs
Speaker 2: or in regional towns around the country.
Speaker 1: Now, Dutton said in his vision for Australia there is
Speaker 1: a place for renewable energy as part of the mix,
Speaker 1: but he says there's no need for fifty eight million
Speaker 1: solar panels, three five hundred wind farms and twenty eight
Speaker 1: thousand kilometers of transmission polls and wires now, make no
Speaker 1: mistake about it. Energy policy will be an area of
Speaker 1: clear contest between Albanesi and Dutton in the lead up
Speaker 1: to the next election, and tonight we've heard from Dutton
Speaker 1: that he's reiterated his commitment to nuclear. He says Australia
Speaker 1: has three energy goals cheaper, consistent and cleaner power, and
Speaker 1: he says that all of these goals can be achieved
Speaker 1: by including zero emission nuclear power in our energy mix
Speaker 1: and by ramping up domestic gas production nuclear power.
Speaker 2: We can maximize the highest yield of energy per square
Speaker 2: meter and minimize our environmental damage. We do that by
Speaker 2: putting new nuclear technologies on or near the brown field
Speaker 2: sites of decommissioned or retiring coal fire power plants using
Speaker 2: the existing grid.
Speaker 1: Now, Peter Dutton referred to some of Labour's great prime
Speaker 1: ministers tonight and when he was speaking about nuclear he
Speaker 1: referred to Bob Hawk and also John Howard as too
Speaker 1: who've expressed support for nuclear power. He also cited Pole's
Speaker 1: showing that sixty five percent of Australians aged eighteen.
Speaker 3: To thirty four or so back nuclear.
Speaker 1: Now tonight we heard Dutton say that he'd tear up
Speaker 1: Labour's complex IRA agenda. This has been very controversial and
Speaker 1: unpopular with the business community.
Speaker 3: And industry and lobby groups as well.
Speaker 1: Now, on national security, Peter Dutton said it's going to
Speaker 1: take a coalition government to stop the people smugglers. On
Speaker 1: his past experience here, he says that they will be
Speaker 1: able to deport criminals. And also he spoke about anti
Speaker 1: Semitism and he pledged to provide what he described as
Speaker 1: moral and political leadership to make it abundantly clear that
Speaker 1: the law needs to be enforced on university campuses. And
Speaker 1: he said he'll make sure that the law wouldn't be
Speaker 1: enforced reluctantly, but readily, as he put it, against those
Speaker 1: who incite hatred and violence.
Speaker 3: Have a look.
Speaker 2: Anti Semitism is not just a threat to one segment
Speaker 2: of our community. It's a threat to our social cohesion
Speaker 2: and to our democratic values. We will also provide the
Speaker 2: moral and political leadership which makes it abundantly clear that
Speaker 2: we expect the law to be enforced readily, not reluctantly,
Speaker 2: against those inciting hatred and violence.
Speaker 1: In law enforcement, Peter Dutton said it will also become
Speaker 1: a crime to post criminal acts online. He says those
Speaker 1: convictors will be banned from using digital platforms and even
Speaker 1: face up to two years in prison. So quite a
Speaker 1: strong announcement there, and he pledged to work with states
Speaker 1: and territories to give police the power to stop and
Speaker 1: search people for knives using detector ones. He said he'd
Speaker 1: also work with state and territories to ban the sale
Speaker 1: and possession of knives, both to minors and dangerous criminals.
Speaker 1: He also wants to work with the states to tighten
Speaker 1: bail laws. Now we've seen New Southell's Premier Chris Mins
Speaker 1: take recent action in this regard, we haven't seen so
Speaker 1: much from the other states, but Dartan says there are
Speaker 1: areas of domestic violence that do fall under the Commonwealth Code.
Speaker 1: He says it'll be a criminal offense to use a
Speaker 1: mobile phone or a computer network to cause a family
Speaker 1: member or an intimate partner to fear for their safety
Speaker 1: or to engage in coercive behavior. Now the bail laws
Speaker 1: that relate to these what would be new Commonwealth offenses.
Speaker 3: He says those laws will be tough now.
Speaker 1: In his speech tonight, just in the past forty minutes,
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton laid out his vision for Australia.
Speaker 3: This is what he wants.
Speaker 1: His leadership to look like if he were to become
Speaker 1: Prime minister. And he spoke very strongly of Australians who've
Speaker 1: been left behind by the Labor government and who have
Speaker 1: no longer been able to own their own homes or
Speaker 1: even have a place to live. And here he referred
Speaker 1: to another great Labor Prime Minister, Paul Keating and Treasurer
Speaker 1: when he repeated this phrase of Keatings twice in his speech.
Speaker 1: He said when governments change, the country changes, and Darton
Speaker 1: mounted the argument that Australians are now worse off less
Speaker 1: safe and less secure than they were two years ago.
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to bring in my political panel now
Speaker 1: in a moment for analysis about Peter Dutton's budget reply
Speaker 1: speech and what this means now for the next election.
Speaker 1: Matt Canavan and Joe Kelly would join me. But also
Speaker 1: on the show tonight, we're going to look at the
Speaker 1: national domestic violence crisis. It is in the spotlight, but
Speaker 1: one podcast host, a former ABC host, is highlighting the
Speaker 1: problem around the way we should speak about it. Josh
Speaker 1: Zepps would join me live. He's making headlines today. He'll
Speaker 1: be in studio also tonight, concerns over the ABC's inability
Speaker 1: to report on the explosion of anti Semitism across Australia.
Speaker 1: The former ABC director Joe Gersh will join me live. Shortly,
Speaker 1: plus officials suspend funding to a US research organization, the
Speaker 1: EcoHealth Alliance, that was linked to funding at the Wuhan
Speaker 1: Institute of Virology. I'm going to speak with one Washington
Speaker 1: federal investigator later in the hour, but now let's bring
Speaker 1: in National Senator Matt Canavan and The Australian's National Affairs
Speaker 1: editor Joe Kelly. Welcome to you, both, Joe and Matt. Look, Matt,
Speaker 1: starting with you, this was a strong pitch from Peter
Speaker 1: Darton tonight, particularly on housing, immigration and energy. Do you
Speaker 1: think this is going to provide a clear option for
Speaker 1: Australians whether to vote for Albanezi or Darton.
Speaker 4: Well. I think it was a very strong contribution from Peter.
Speaker 5: He has correctly diagnosed the situation in this country. The
Speaker 5: country's clearly not on track and it's kind of off
Speaker 5: the rails since the Labor government came to power two
Speaker 5: years ago.
Speaker 4: People's grocery bills have gone through the roof.
Speaker 5: For mortgage payments, how to control the border doesn't seem
Speaker 5: to be controlled.
Speaker 4: There's just enormous numbers of people coming over here.
Speaker 5: People can't find a house, that alone, buy a house
Speaker 5: just finding a bed. I meaning is something has gone
Speaker 5: seriously wrong in this country over the past two years.
Speaker 5: And I think the important thing to know is Peter's
Speaker 5: not just diagnosed that. He's also outlined some very strong
Speaker 5: treatments that the coalition would do, like banning foreigners from
Speaker 5: buying homes for a couple of years, like significantly cutting
Speaker 5: back on those migration numbers that have been allowed to
Speaker 5: grow by too much. Stronger penalties for crime as well.
Speaker 5: These are the sort of things we do need to
Speaker 5: being a government focused on the local issues. I think
Speaker 5: we've had a government the last couple of years that
Speaker 5: has been distracted with the global preoccupations of an elite
Speaker 5: class that want to see massive climate change action, that
Speaker 5: want to see open borders, that want to drive device
Speaker 5: of proposals like the Voice, whereas Peter speech is very
Speaker 5: much pitched I think at the hearth of the home
Speaker 5: of every Australian's home about giving people opportunity to get
Speaker 5: into a home, to be able to pay the bills
Speaker 5: in that home, to feel safe and secure in that home,
Speaker 5: and ultimately then build and support a great family in
Speaker 5: the home as well.
Speaker 1: Joe Kelly, you know, I'm really interested in your analysis
Speaker 1: of this speech because to me, very clearly that wasn't
Speaker 1: a budget apply speech.
Speaker 3: That was a pitch for the Prime ministership.
Speaker 4: A Sherry.
Speaker 6: I think it was a punchy and political speech from
Speaker 6: Peter Dutton. I think he's trying to really draw some
Speaker 6: larger contrasts between himself and Anthony Albanezi his philosophy and
Speaker 6: Labour's philosophy. Labor is talking about big, sweeping, transformational change.
Speaker 6: Jim Chalmers is talking about forging an entirely new economy,
Speaker 6: turning Australia into a renewable energy superpower. They're saying the
Speaker 6: changes the world are going through are the most significant
Speaker 6: since the Industrial Revolution. Peter Dutton is thinking smaller and
Speaker 6: simpler in a way, and as Matt said, he's thinking
Speaker 6: more about the issues that a family would be talking
Speaker 6: about around the kitchen table. This is the cost of living, energy, migration, housing,
Speaker 6: law and order, and so that's what he's focused on
Speaker 6: in the budget reply. I think we got a little
Speaker 6: more detail on housing and migration. But the other thing
Speaker 6: is he's really called out the budget with a very
Speaker 6: strong attack. He says it fails two tests. Essentially, he's
Speaker 6: saying it's wrong for the times. He's saying fails the
Speaker 6: inflation challenge. But secondly he's put a big stake right
Speaker 6: through the heart of the Future Made in Australia agenda,
Speaker 6: rejecting those thirteen point six billion dollars for production tax
Speaker 6: credits for green hydrogen and critical minerals. So those political
Speaker 6: battle lines have been really emphasized and entrenched tonight by
Speaker 6: Peter Dutton.
Speaker 3: I mean Matt Canavan.
Speaker 1: Dutton has put energy firmly on the table, you know,
Speaker 1: he said, yes, renewables have a place, but he's not
Speaker 1: interested in there's thirteen billion dollars the subsidies for the
Speaker 1: lack of green hydrogen and cleaner minerals.
Speaker 3: And he's also said that.
Speaker 1: We need nuclear in the mix and we need more
Speaker 1: gas production. Do you think this is going to open
Speaker 1: up again, particularly in the teal seats there's climate change battle.
Speaker 5: Well, shure, I think most people around the country are
Speaker 5: just worried about paying their bills right now, and they
Speaker 5: would include lots of people in the teal seats too. Yes,
Speaker 5: those seats tend to have higher than average incomes. But
Speaker 5: everybody has been feeling the pinch across Australia in the
Speaker 5: past couple of years. I mean, real wages under this
Speaker 5: government have gone backwards ten years over ten just over
Speaker 5: ten years. We're back to levels of wages we haven't
Speaker 5: seen since twenty eleven. And so everybody is feeling the
Speaker 5: pinch right now. And I'll riff off what Joe said
Speaker 5: as well, that Future made an Australia program. It's really
Speaker 5: been designed in the boardrooms, the corporate boardrooms of this
Speaker 5: country directly gives subsidies to some of the largest corporations
Speaker 5: in our nation. Whereas what Peter's trying to design here,
Speaker 5: only what the coalition will take the next selection, is
Speaker 5: something that helps people around their kitchen table pay their
Speaker 5: power bills. Because what good is installing eighty two percent
Speaker 5: of renewables in Australia if people can't afford to pay
Speaker 5: for it.
Speaker 4: That's the path we're on right now. We need to
Speaker 4: get a better balance into our energy system.
Speaker 5: And even myself, I mean I'll be doing mischaracterized lots,
Speaker 5: but I've always said there's a role for renewables in
Speaker 5: our system. It's just about finding the right balance. An
Speaker 5: eighty two percent of our power system coming from types
Speaker 5: of power that dependent on the weather is not the
Speaker 5: right approach. We have to install power options which can
Speaker 5: be there all the time so that people's bills can
Speaker 5: be lower all of the time as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, it's going to be a fascinating fight. This
Speaker 1: gives us a fight, gives us something to talk about.
Speaker 1: Matt Canavan, Joe Kelly, thank you very much for joining
Speaker 1: me with that analysis.
Speaker 7: There.
Speaker 1: Now, don't go anywhere. We've got a Big Show tonight.
Speaker 1: I've still got Steve Price, I've got Jason Morrison coming up.
Speaker 1: Josh Zepp's, the former ABC host, will join me live,
Speaker 1: plus the former ABC director Joe Gersh and he's scathing
Speaker 1: about why it's taken Sky News to do a documentary
Speaker 1: Josh Fridenberg into antisemitism and not the public broadcaster. Stay tuned,
Speaker 1: Big Show this hour, Welcome back. Okay, we're going to
Speaker 1: come back to the budget reply speech in a moment.
Speaker 1: Josh Zepp's will also join me live. But first now
Speaker 1: to our public broadcaster. Now, we've seen sickening displays of
Speaker 1: anti Semitism in Australia on campuses, in companies and on
Speaker 1: the streets. It's a major story unfolding in our country
Speaker 1: right now at crisis point. Yet the ABC has failed
Speaker 1: to cover it in any meaningful way. Instead, the public
Speaker 1: broadcaster is happy to delve into the subject of Islamophobia
Speaker 1: and provide a platform to people like Anthony Lowenstein, who
Speaker 1: has called for a one state solution.
Speaker 8: Seeing what has happened to Gaza since October seventh has
Speaker 8: been heartbreaking.
Speaker 3: I'm so ashamed. I'm so ashamed because it's been done
Speaker 3: in my.
Speaker 7: Name and I think it's important that Jews or non
Speaker 7: Jews are really challenged on what they're backing.
Speaker 1: The ABC also produced a four corners piece on the war,
Speaker 1: led by John Lyons, who's been very critical of Israel,
Speaker 1: including claiming that Australia's support of Israel is illogical and unhealthy.
Speaker 8: If you were a Palestinian living in the West Bank
Speaker 8: or Gaza, what would your view be of Israel?
Speaker 2: I would fight against Israel in order to achieve my liberty?
Speaker 7: How would you fight?
Speaker 9: How dirty?
Speaker 2: I will do everything in order to achieve my liberty.
Speaker 2: And that's it.
Speaker 1: So where's the ABC's documentary on anti Semitism that's risen
Speaker 1: and by over seven hundred percent since October the seventh.
Speaker 3: As Peter Dutton just spoke about tonight.
Speaker 1: It's shameful that the public broadcaster hasn't examined this topic
Speaker 1: and it's left to us at Sky News and former
Speaker 1: Treasurer Josh Fredenberg to produce the only substantial documentary on
Speaker 1: this subject to date. Now I put questions to the
Speaker 1: ABC on this. I asked them that separate from Islamophobia,
Speaker 1: and separate from whether anti Semitism and anti Zionism are
Speaker 1: indistinguishable because.
Speaker 3: They have covered that.
Speaker 1: Has the ABC covered the story of the explosion in
Speaker 1: anti semitism in Australia this year on any of their
Speaker 1: flagship programs. Now they just directed me to the search
Speaker 1: results page on the ABC's news website, which showed nothing
Speaker 1: of substance. Now, the former ABC director Joe Gersh is
Speaker 1: calling this out and he joins me, Now, Joe, what
Speaker 1: do you think of the ABC failing to properly examin
Speaker 1: this crisis that we're seeing in Australia.
Speaker 10: Well, good evening, Shari. As you know, I'm a supporter
Speaker 10: of the ABC, or at least the supporter of a strong,
Speaker 10: independent and impartial ABC as a critical part of our
Speaker 10: national conversation. I was a director for a period of
Speaker 10: five years. I saw the promotion that you had last
Speaker 10: week of Josh Friedenberg's documentary and the commentary that you've
Speaker 10: made at that time and subsequently, and I observed independently
Speaker 10: of you and put on social media. My concern, which
Speaker 10: is why has it fallen to Sky News and Josh.
Speaker 10: That's not a criticism of Sky News or Josh, but
Speaker 10: it is a matter of deep concern to me as
Speaker 10: a member of the Jewish community, as a former ABC
Speaker 10: director and as an Australian citizen, that our national broadcaster
Speaker 10: has not fully understood and dealt with what I believe
Speaker 10: has reached crisis proportion, which is anti Semitism in this country.
Speaker 10: But Charie, I might just say that I think that
Speaker 10: even since you announced Josh's documentary and called this to light,
Speaker 10: I think we've reached an inflection point in the public
Speaker 10: conversation about anti Semitism. The Prime Minister said this week
Speaker 10: that this is the worst that he's seen in his lifetime.
Speaker 10: We had the Leader of the Opposition's speech tonight which
Speaker 10: you referred to earlier. You had the Senate today passer motion,
Speaker 10: a bipartisan motion which said that from the River to
Speaker 10: the Sea, which is the mantra of the Harmas supporters
Speaker 10: and many of the Palestinian supporters, is offensive, is anti Semitic,
Speaker 10: and is out of place. We've had Vice chancellors some
Speaker 10: come out and say what's going on on campus is
Speaker 10: outrageous and unacceptable. So the conversation is moving and moving quickly.
Speaker 10: But I find it deeply disappointing that the ABC didn't
Speaker 10: lead this conversation and hasn't really joined in.
Speaker 4: On it.
Speaker 3: Now, Joe.
Speaker 1: Look, we've spoken and done interviews a lot of times
Speaker 1: in the past, and you were often on the other
Speaker 1: side defending the ABC from accusations of vias.
Speaker 3: And I think the issue is if you.
Speaker 1: Look at any one piece of ABC content that people
Speaker 1: complain about, it can be defended. You can say, oh,
Speaker 1: well there was balance in any one piece of content.
Speaker 1: We gave a voice to this one, and we gave
Speaker 1: a voice.
Speaker 3: To this one.
Speaker 1: But I think the issue is the overall subjects that
Speaker 1: they're covering and what they're not covering. So what we're
Speaker 1: seeing here is that they're not covering this crisis.
Speaker 3: I mean, do you think it's a case I.
Speaker 1: Mean you've been there, Joe, You've been in the room,
Speaker 1: You've sat at the board table, You've pushed back on
Speaker 1: some of these issues. Do you think it's a case
Speaker 1: of the people who work at the ABC not caring
Speaker 1: about the Jewish community? Do you think they are more
Speaker 1: pro Palestinian?
Speaker 3: Is that what it is?
Speaker 10: Well, yes, I've been in the room as a director,
Speaker 10: although as you know, the directors of the ABC don't
Speaker 10: run editorial content. I've also been in the room my
Speaker 10: hotel room in Tel Aviv when three hundred cruise missiles,
Speaker 10: drones and other projectiles were flung at Israel, thankfully unsuccessfully.
Speaker 10: I visited down south and saw what Hamas got up to.
Speaker 10: So I've been in not only in the room at
Speaker 10: the ABC, but in the room dealing with dealing with
Speaker 10: the issue on the ground, and with some regret and
Speaker 10: some trepidation, I would say this that one of the
Speaker 10: reasons the ABC is not part of the solution here
Speaker 10: is that it's part of the problem that for the
Speaker 10: reason that you've identified. You identified John Lyons in your introduction.
Speaker 10: He's an experienced journalist and he's knowledgeable on the subject.
Speaker 10: But he's written a book which makes it very clear
Speaker 10: where he stands on the question of Israel, but then
Speaker 10: a monograph in which he roundly attacked the Jewish communities,
Speaker 10: organizations and advocacy groups for standing up and defending Israel.
Speaker 10: Now he has a right to his views, obviously, but
Speaker 10: how can he be the lead spokesman on global affairs
Speaker 10: at the ABC dealing with this issue with that particular
Speaker 10: position you've mentioned the Lowenstein He is a stock standard
Speaker 10: anti Israel spokesman. The fact that he has Jewish parentage
Speaker 10: is a curiosity, but not to the point now Compass
Speaker 10: is the leading religious affairs program and yet it deals
Speaker 10: with this fringe issue and fringe person. Frankly, instead of
Speaker 10: asking this question, why is it that, for the first
Speaker 10: time in living memory, Jews in Australia have been part
Speaker 10: of the fabric of this society are saying to themselves
Speaker 10: is Jewish life viable in the medium to long term
Speaker 10: in Australia? And that is a very serious consideration. But
Speaker 10: as I say, even in the week since you've promoted
Speaker 10: that documentary, which I'm very much looking forward to seeing,
Speaker 10: I think the conversation has changed. I think that conversation
Speaker 10: has I think that conversation is changing, and it's not
Speaker 10: before time. But there's a lot more work to be done.
Speaker 10: But it begins sharing with one thing, which is recognizing,
Speaker 10: acknowledging and addressing the problem. And I would like to
Speaker 10: see the ABC front and center in that endeavor.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately they surely won't be. Joe Gersh, thank you
Speaker 1: very much for coming on air, for speaking out on
Speaker 1: Sky News, not on the public broadcaster where you are
Speaker 1: a director.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 1: And of course Anthony Lowenstein also won the Walkley Book
Speaker 1: of the Year award and the Walkley's had a pro
Speaker 1: Palestinian activist as a host.
Speaker 3: So that's where our media industry is now.
Speaker 1: From Molly Tyshost to Hannah Clarke, the horror deaths of
Speaker 1: women have galvanized the nation and put a spotlight on
Speaker 1: domestic violence. Former ABC host Josh Zepps, who's got a
Speaker 1: podcast now called Uncomfortable Conversations, has been in the news today.
Speaker 1: He was on ben Fordham this morning. He's been in
Speaker 1: the news because of an episode he did called the
Speaker 1: Problem with the Conversation about male violence.
Speaker 3: Here's a snippet.
Speaker 9: Yes, let's try to pursue whatever policies make sense in
Speaker 9: order to reduce violence. But in order to do so,
Speaker 9: presumably we want the largest cohort of males to be
Speaker 9: on board with this mission, not feeling alienated because they're
Speaker 9: being accused of doing things that they haven't done.
Speaker 1: Now and Josh Zepp's joins me in studio. Now, Josh,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time. So you know
Speaker 1: what has been Why has this episode been so controversial?
Speaker 1: Do you think I mean you want to You basically
Speaker 1: are saying that at the moment the conversation that we're
Speaker 1: having is overly blaming men for the problem when really it's.
Speaker 3: Just a few.
Speaker 9: Well, I mean, let's think clearly, the men who deserve
Speaker 9: blame deserve the blame, and violent men need to be
Speaker 9: shunned by all of us. And domestic violence is tragic whenever,
Speaker 9: whenever it happens, and we should do everything we can
Speaker 9: to try to help people who are in relationship with
Speaker 9: bullies exit those relationships. The reason why I do uncomfortable
Speaker 9: conversations the podcast is when I can notice an important
Speaker 9: issue that I care deeply about being cleaved into two
Speaker 9: kind of phony binaries. And in this case, there seems
Speaker 9: to be a perspective of either men don't care and
Speaker 9: men are part of the problem, or we have to
Speaker 9: agree that men need to do more, men need to
Speaker 9: step up. Men are killing women at horrifying rates. So
Speaker 9: I just wanted to break down the data of what
Speaker 9: those rates actually are see how we're doing in the
Speaker 9: interest of trying to help create a conversation where young
Speaker 9: women don't necessarily feel more afraid of walking down the
Speaker 9: street than they need to, and where the largest cohort
Speaker 9: of men as possible can be included in the conversation
Speaker 9: can try to understand why some men are violent and
Speaker 9: most aren't. And I mean just this happens so often
Speaker 9: with these kinds of issues, as you know, you know,
Speaker 9: whether it's about race, or about feminism or about transgender
Speaker 9: or something like that, people hunker down into these kind
Speaker 9: of rival teams. And all I'm trying to do is
Speaker 9: occupy I suppose the radical center or the sensible middle,
Speaker 9: and say, hang on, let's just let's just cool it
Speaker 9: a little bit.
Speaker 1: You know, center zony radical if you come from the
Speaker 1: ABC by the way.
Speaker 9: Well, I mean I just I think there's a there's
Speaker 9: a space, and there's actually a hunger. And one of
Speaker 9: the reasons for the gratifying success of the podcast so
Speaker 9: far is that people are thirsty for people who can
Speaker 9: talk about controversial issues without constantly worrying about treading on
Speaker 9: eggshells or what trip wise they may trigger with their allies,
Speaker 9: or how well they can signal their own virtue to
Speaker 9: people who are on supposedly the right side of history.
Speaker 9: I'm about having faired income conversations. So I put out
Speaker 9: this episode of the podcast.
Speaker 4: I didn't know I was going.
Speaker 9: To do so well, and I didn't know that it
Speaker 9: was going to cause the conversations that's caused. But on
Speaker 9: the one hand, I'll have responses from you know, as
Speaker 9: many men, as many women as men, saying thank you
Speaker 9: for talking sense and thank you for trying to bring
Speaker 9: a spotlight to what is actually going on instead of
Speaker 9: engaging in hyperbole on one side or the other. And
Speaker 9: then I also have the predictable backlash where I had
Speaker 9: get a lot of feedback from very angry people who
Speaker 9: are missing the point completely and saying you don't get it.
Speaker 9: Men need to do better. Men are killing women. You know,
Speaker 9: I feel safer. They were holding up signs saying I'd
Speaker 9: feel safer with a bear than I would with a man,
Speaker 9: and this kind of rhetoric. I mean, if what you're
Speaker 9: trying to do is understand a violent cohort, then think
Speaker 9: about what we've done with something like terrorism, for example,
Speaker 9: where the you know, extremism experts will say you want
Speaker 9: a sideline and exclude the people who are violent from
Speaker 9: the rest of their cohorts. So you want to say,
Speaker 9: to Muslims, for example, we're not blaming all of you
Speaker 9: for jihadism. We're trying to understand why ghardists are jihadists,
Speaker 9: and we want you to be on side in that fight.
Speaker 9: And I think there's a similar analogy that can be
Speaker 9: drawn with the case of violence against women. You want
Speaker 9: men to be on side. So what we should be
Speaker 9: saying is, let's understand why there is violence in specifically
Speaker 9: domestic relationships, and by the way that violence exists in
Speaker 9: lesbian relationships, it exists in same sex gay relationships. There's
Speaker 9: something about the dynamic of being in an intimate relationship
Speaker 9: and foster.
Speaker 3: But what we've seen this year very clearly.
Speaker 1: You know, the deaths of twenty eight women, and in
Speaker 1: many of the cases it's a repeat offender. It's it's
Speaker 1: a partner or an ex partner who the women knew
Speaker 1: and had complained to authorities was threatening her or stalking her,
Speaker 1: and the person had been let out on bail. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's why he was free to commit the attack. So
Speaker 1: that's what we're seeing at the moment. But then this
Speaker 1: conversation is happening where all men need to take responsibility
Speaker 1: for this. So you know, what you're saying is it's
Speaker 1: not the case women. And you know in your in
Speaker 1: your piece, you say there are some women who are
Speaker 1: walking down the street just afraid of half the population.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I don't think it's constructive. Like, I mean, so
Speaker 9: these these repeat offenders and these and I can honestly say,
Speaker 9: like I have people say, you know, men need to
Speaker 9: push back better, and men need to do more at
Speaker 9: standing up to the other men in their midst. I
Speaker 9: can say if you say that the number of times
Speaker 9: that I've been sitting in a pub and with a
Speaker 9: bunch of mates and one of them has admitted to
Speaker 9: abusive or coercive control over an intimate partner, let alone
Speaker 9: physical violence, is zero, And if that did happen, then
Speaker 9: everyone else would immediately jump on that person and say, mate,
Speaker 9: that is not on. So what is it exactly that
Speaker 9: I'm supposed to be doing about the other men in
Speaker 9: our midst except for supporting policies that can identify those
Speaker 9: people earlier and target those people specifically rather than targeting
Speaker 9: all males. And I mean, I think we're also conflating
Speaker 9: here the problem of domestic control and domestic abuse with
Speaker 9: the supposed threat of women being killed randomly. I mean,
Speaker 9: one reason why this has all come up at the
Speaker 9: moment is because last month was a terrible month for
Speaker 9: men killing women in Australia. But almost half of the
Speaker 9: women who were killed by men in Australia last month
Speaker 9: were in the bond Bi stabbing. So I mean five
Speaker 9: of the eleven last month were in one very anomalous attack.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 9: So I don't want.
Speaker 1: To foster environment or men are blamed, but that you
Speaker 1: might still feel unsafe as a woman going for a
Speaker 1: run by yourself. I don't know many well, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: go for a run to park by myself.
Speaker 10: You know.
Speaker 3: So look, there are a few things into isolated.
Speaker 9: There are a few things going into that. Part of
Speaker 9: it might be the actual risk, and part of it
Speaker 9: might be that the way we're having the conversation about
Speaker 9: the stinks, and so you feel unduly concerned when actually
Speaker 9: the data, you know, I think it was about one
Speaker 9: hundred and eighteen women in the last financial year, which
Speaker 9: is where they keep the records, were killed. I mean
Speaker 9: these are not that this is the third lowest there is.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't go for a run, by the way, and
Speaker 3: I don't run.
Speaker 9: He's the third lowest rate in thirty years. And I
Speaker 9: just want some perspective here, right, I mean, I should
Speaker 9: be men are killed at more than twice the rate
Speaker 9: of women in this country, admittedly by other men, but
Speaker 9: I mean I sort of moderate my concern about being
Speaker 9: killed by another man on the basis of what the
Speaker 9: facts are, rather than on the basis of us constantly
Speaker 9: whipping up hysteria. I have the benefit of not living
Speaker 9: in a country that is constantly telling me that men
Speaker 9: are in danger, even though I am in twice more
Speaker 9: than twice as much danger as I would be if
Speaker 9: I was a woman of just randomly being killed by
Speaker 9: a man on the street. So part of our fear
Speaker 9: comes from reality, but part of it also comes from
Speaker 9: this drum beat of relentlessness.
Speaker 3: I've going to go.
Speaker 1: We're out of time because because Peter Dutton's a fly
Speaker 1: speech ate into my show. It's night uncomfortable conversation where
Speaker 1: people can hear more and I really enjoy your podcast.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining me, Josh.
Speaker 1: Now after the break, Chris Bowens, let's slip the real
Speaker 1: reason for labors three hundred dollars energy rebate My panel,
Speaker 1: Steve Price Jason Morrison will join me next.
Speaker 3: Welcome back all right.
Speaker 1: For further analysis of Peter Dutton's budget reply speech, Let's
Speaker 1: bring in Sky News host Steve Price and commentator Jason Morrison.
Speaker 3: Welcome to you both.
Speaker 1: Jason, let's start with you a debate here about energy.
Speaker 1: How do you think this is going to be received
Speaker 1: by Australians.
Speaker 8: Well, Australians don't just want a debate. They want action,
Speaker 8: and they want action that is going to push down
Speaker 8: their prices. And I guess this is the drama at
Speaker 8: the moment that the fellow running energy in Australia at
Speaker 8: the moment doesn't think that that's a priority. Yeah, he
Speaker 8: thinks his band Aid solutions, which today was almost humiliated
Speaker 8: by trying to sell it. And yet at the same
Speaker 8: time the coalition I think it's got a problem because
Speaker 8: the front man might be into it, but there's a
Speaker 8: whole lot of snakes all riddle through the Liberal Party
Speaker 8: at the moment who actually don't agree with it and
Speaker 8: handbreaks on any progress on energy policy. I think that's
Speaker 8: a big problem actually, And as much as Dunton's got
Speaker 8: some great ideas, can he carry the back bench who
Speaker 8: really have been pretty good at kicking home goals for
Speaker 8: a long time.
Speaker 1: Steve Price, what did you think of Dutton's response tonight?
Speaker 1: How do you think this frames the run up to
Speaker 1: the next federal election.
Speaker 7: Well, I think when you described it as more of
Speaker 7: an election speech and a budget speech and reply, you're
Speaker 7: a spot on. And we're going to have now an
Speaker 7: election that's going to be fought on some central issues
Speaker 7: finally migration, nuclear power and energy energy costs, and we're
Speaker 7: going to find another election on climate change. Luck we
Speaker 7: have for so many elections going back years and years
Speaker 7: and years now. But the Liberal Party, and you know,
Speaker 7: I hope Jason's not right that the snakes come wriggling
Speaker 7: out from the background again. But the Liberal Party, the
Speaker 7: National Party, the Coalition have firmly laid out a difference
Speaker 7: to Labor and Anthony Albanesi. We haven't had an election
Speaker 7: where there has been such stark differences for a long time.
Speaker 7: Had now come Turnble running the joint even Scott Morrison
Speaker 7: that they did not have the I won't use the word.
Speaker 7: I was going to the courage perhaps to be different.
Speaker 7: Dunton has those things and he's going to show the
Speaker 7: Australian public that he's willing to do it.
Speaker 1: Look, we saw today front page of the Daily Telegraph
Speaker 1: and accusation against Anthony Alberanesi that his tenant living in
Speaker 1: his investment property in Sydney's Inner West was handed in
Speaker 1: a viction notice.
Speaker 3: Jason Morrison. A lot of people have come out.
Speaker 1: Today and said, oh, well, you know, fair enough, if
Speaker 1: Albanzi wants to Sully's house, he can.
Speaker 3: What do you think.
Speaker 8: I know why this is a story, because there's a
Speaker 8: great story, But I also kind of look at this
Speaker 8: and I think this fella is a damn winger. You've
Speaker 8: been given three months to vacate. Not many people get
Speaker 8: three months to vacate, and not many people get rend
Speaker 8: as cheap as he's had it for as long as
Speaker 8: he's had it. He should be thankful that he had
Speaker 8: a landlord who was as tolerant to keep the rate
Speaker 8: as low as he did for as long as he did,
Speaker 8: and to give him that amount of flak.
Speaker 4: I had someone who's close.
Speaker 8: To me who was given three weeks to get out
Speaker 8: of a place, and you know, three weeks in this
Speaker 8: climate and a city like Sydney is impossible. What I mean,
Speaker 8: I actually, you know, we've just been talking about particular
Speaker 8: kinds of people. I think this fellow fits in the
Speaker 8: particular kind of people category. I think as a real
Speaker 8: low thing for him to do because he's had a
Speaker 8: very good run for a very long time and he
Speaker 8: ought to be thankful.
Speaker 3: Steve Price more than anything.
Speaker 1: Though, doesn't it highlight that the Prime Minister has investment
Speaker 1: properties while people are and the career mail has in
Speaker 1: Queensland has covered this really well. Some people are seeing
Speaker 1: eight hundred properties just to rent them and they're unable
Speaker 1: to find a place.
Speaker 7: Look, we have a rental crisis. I think Jason's been
Speaker 7: kind on that blow calling him a winder. I think
Speaker 7: he's a pain in the neck. He got his rent
Speaker 7: decrease from eight hundred dollars a week to six hundred
Speaker 7: during COVID and the Prime Minister didn't put it up
Speaker 7: again after COVID was over. Now the Prime Minister having
Speaker 7: rental properties, I don't have a problem with that. He's
Speaker 7: been in Parliament for a long time, he's earned a
Speaker 7: pretty good salary. He's both's been through a marriage breakdown,
Speaker 7: but he's still got some investments. That's okay. He wants
Speaker 7: to change his private arrangements. He's probably going to buy
Speaker 7: a bigger house when he gets married to Jody this year.
Speaker 7: But this bloke has really annoyed me today. As Jason said,
Speaker 7: he's lucky he's got a roof over his head. We
Speaker 7: had a rental inspection for a vacant apartment in the
Speaker 7: block I live in in Melbourne ocasionally and there was
Speaker 7: one hundred people queued up out the front. Yes, so
Speaker 7: the bloke should think he's lucky stars that he's had
Speaker 7: somewhere to live.
Speaker 3: Now, what about this?
Speaker 1: Jason Scott Morrison met with Donald Trump overnight posted a
Speaker 1: picture to Instagram. Anthony Alberinezi didn't exactly welcome the news.
Speaker 1: Even though Scomo has been able to get a meeting
Speaker 1: with Kevin Rudd. Sorry Scoma has been able to get
Speaker 1: a meeting with Trump whereas trump bags.
Speaker 3: Actually I think.
Speaker 4: Both are right.
Speaker 8: Actually, I would imagine Albanezy has struggled to get a
Speaker 8: meeting with Rudd as well. Look, you know that is
Speaker 8: Australia's great, big problem in America right now, is Kevin Rudd.
Speaker 8: Because look, we don't know how it's going to go.
Speaker 8: It looks like it's going to go Trump way, but
Speaker 8: whoever knows. But what we do know is that a
Speaker 8: former prime minister and a former treasurer and thankfully a
Speaker 8: few others in Australian politics have got a reasonable relationship
Speaker 8: with She really said it that I don't have a
Speaker 8: problem with it all. And good on him, frankly for
Speaker 8: going and doing it. He's a free citizen to do
Speaker 8: as he pleases.
Speaker 3: Maybe he should be the ambassadator.
Speaker 8: What about those awards behind Steve look at they are
Speaker 8: radio awards reward radio.
Speaker 3: Journalist chief Price.
Speaker 1: Jason Morrison is great to see you now after the break,
Speaker 1: a COVID investigator from Washington would join me with a
Speaker 1: major development.
Speaker 3: Stay tuned.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: Major news today that the US government has suspended funding
Speaker 1: for EcoHealth Alliance. This is the organization that US taxpayer
Speaker 1: funds to conduct gain a function that's risky research at
Speaker 1: the Wuhan Institute of Virology before the outbreak of COVID nineteen.
Speaker 1: To break this down, let's bringing now US federal investigator
Speaker 1: Diane Cutler. Diane, thank you so much for joining us tonight.
Speaker 1: I know it's early in the morning where you are,
Speaker 1: so tell us the significance of this announcement today.
Speaker 11: Hi, sure, thanks for having me. It's good to see you.
Speaker 11: This is a significant development in the COVID origins investigation
Speaker 11: because EcoHealth Alliance is a nonprofit organization that did funnel
Speaker 11: money US research money to the Wuhan Institute of Virology
Speaker 11: for dangerous coronavirus research and uh you know, it's been
Speaker 11: under investigation since well Real licensed the onset of of
Speaker 11: COVID when we learned when we first learned that Eco
Speaker 11: Health had grants that were going to the Wuhan Institute
Speaker 11: of Virology. So Eco Health has not behaved properly. They
Speaker 11: have been out of compliance with all of the with
Speaker 11: the laws and regulations that are required of a US
Speaker 11: federal grandee, but they were not held accountable. Inn IH,
Speaker 11: which is one of the primary grant givers to ego Health,
Speaker 11: continue to even though they originally they suspended NIH suspended
Speaker 11: Eco Health's grants to to investigate if they had if
Speaker 11: their research had caused the pandemic. Quite frankly, and.
Speaker 1: Diana, it's quite incredible when you think that paida Dajik
Speaker 1: from Acohealth Alliance was initially one of the investigators that
Speaker 1: went into Wuhan to try and find out the origins
Speaker 1: of the virus, and now his very organization has had
Speaker 1: its funding, it can't get grants anymore.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is a massive admission.
Speaker 11: Well, it's a suspension I just want to caution that
Speaker 11: it is a suspension, it's not, which means all of
Speaker 11: the AHHS grants currently are suspended to Eco Health, So
Speaker 11: any of the activities or any of the research that
Speaker 11: they are conducting right now will not be reimbursed pending
Speaker 11: the outcome of an investigation that now AGHS has to
Speaker 11: take on. And they're going to do their due diligence
Speaker 11: to independently assess whether or not this suspension should be
Speaker 11: upheld and if it should go further to a debarment
Speaker 11: of all federal grand times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a huge development today. Diane Cautler really appreciate
Speaker 1: your time. You weren't involved in this particular investigation, but
Speaker 1: Diane has spent months and months over a year examining
Speaker 1: EcoHealth Alliance, their grants, their tax.
Speaker 3: It's been a lot of work.
Speaker 1: Now, thank you so much for your company this week.
Speaker 1: I'll see you Monday at eight. And here's Paul Mara