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Speaker 1: So how was Saturday night? I mean, the footy was

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Speaker 1: great across the weekend, but that election. Boy, my neighbor

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Speaker 1: was saying to me, I love my country. We chose kindness,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I tend to believe that she's right.

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Speaker 1: I do have a couple of questions as to how

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Speaker 1: it happened to be so immensely overwhelmingly in one direction

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Speaker 1: and not the other. But I also know that I'm

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Speaker 1: a bit outguned when it comes to answering those questions.

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Speaker 1: So Charles Croucher, the Nine Networks chief political editor, is

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Speaker 1: here for a chat. Try to explain how we got

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Speaker 1: what we got. Am we going to do that right

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Speaker 1: after this break? Hey, thanks for listening to the show.

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Speaker 1: This is better than yesterday, making it better every single

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Speaker 1: episode since twoenty thirteen. Grateful you're here. My name's Osha Ginsburg,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, I've been doing this podcast for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Twice a week. Come here. You're going to hear something

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Speaker 1: on this show guaranteed that'll help make you with that

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Speaker 1: today better than yesterday. That is the job that we

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Speaker 1: are here to do here at the show, and I

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Speaker 1: couldn't be more grateful to have this as a job

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Speaker 1: that I do one of the jobs that I do.

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Speaker 1: There's another job I do, which is a producer and

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Speaker 1: host and write for a live storytelling show called story Club.

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Speaker 1: We've got to show this Sunday at the Comedy Store

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Speaker 1: in Sydney five point forty five is a kickoff and

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Speaker 1: tickets aren't very expensive thirty five bucks. I think you

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Speaker 1: can get the show tickets in the show notes. An

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Speaker 1: amazing lineup Bled Jocelyn, That's what I reckon, Graciotto, Hannah, Riley,

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Speaker 1: Zoe not in Lodge, and myself taking on the theme

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Speaker 1: not what I signed up for. Going to be some

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty pretty good stories already. I know a couple

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Speaker 1: of ideas that are coming out, so I'm very very

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Speaker 1: excited as to what is going to happen. Let me

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Speaker 1: tell you about my guest today. My guest today is

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Speaker 1: Charles Croucher. He is the chief political editor for the

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Speaker 1: nine television network in Australia. He's worked on a current affair.

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Speaker 1: He served as the US correspondent in Los Angeles and

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Speaker 1: now as the chief political editors, provides regular political analysis

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Speaker 1: and covers all the big elections for the network. As

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Speaker 1: you'll hear, he's quite the nerd, and so he was

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Speaker 1: the guy to talk to because there was an immense

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Speaker 1: election here in Australia along the way across the weekend.

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Speaker 1: And I know enough to know when I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I don't know, So it's important that I get

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Speaker 1: someone in who knows more than I do that could

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Speaker 1: explain to us how what happened happened and what has

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Speaker 1: got to happen now. That part of the conversation is

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Speaker 1: particularly interesting. He's such a great bloke. It was fantastic

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Speaker 1: to engage with him, and I'm sure you'll enjoy as

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Speaker 1: much as I did this conversation with Charles Croucher. Well, firstly, mate,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Charles.

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Speaker 1: From what I understand, you're in Parliament House right now,

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Speaker 1: I am. Are you in the Channel nine study where

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Speaker 1: the famous Peter Harvey come like? Is that the room

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Speaker 1: you're in?

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Speaker 3: He would have done some stuff in this room. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's one of them. We have a couple of studios

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Speaker 3: here now. He also did a fairit of stuff out

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Speaker 3: the front of the building before we had the benefit

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Speaker 3: of studios and at the old Parliament, but this is yeah,

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Speaker 3: he would would have twinkled his toes in here at

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Speaker 3: some point.

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Speaker 1: It's quite an important job to be selected as the

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Speaker 1: political editor for an Australian Years network. Is politics is,

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Speaker 1: by design, I think confusing. We're deliberately kept befuddles, so

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Speaker 1: we don't know what the fuck's going on. So having

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Speaker 1: someone to go here's what that means is really important

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Speaker 1: for us as a community.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you sort of have to turn onto

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Speaker 3: politics before it turns onto you, as the old Ralph

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Speaker 3: Nata saying, and that's sort of I don't know's it

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Speaker 3: is increasingly I think important, and as the political parties

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Speaker 3: and the politicians themselves get better at if something's not

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Speaker 3: going there, we're making it confusing, then yeah you need

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Speaker 3: people here. The other thing about this job that's gotten

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Speaker 3: I think better but certainly harder, is that it's no

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Speaker 3: longer just you know John Howard talking to Alan Jones

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Speaker 3: three times.

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Speaker 2: A week that you have to decipher. It is so much.

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Speaker 3: Content coming down the line through a podcast, social media,

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Speaker 3: different interviews that you have to stay across.

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Speaker 2: That's a good thing.

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Speaker 3: I think it's good Australians get to see more of

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Speaker 3: their leaders and therefore make a more informed choice. It

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Speaker 3: just makes our job a little harder, but that's why

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Speaker 3: you have to rely on a pretty good team.

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Speaker 1: You clearly love it. I've seen footage. I've watched podcasts

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Speaker 1: of view, I've watched podcasts wild. Yes, I've watched podcasts

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Speaker 1: of you. And I believe you're in your office, and

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Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, you have on your wall behind

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Speaker 1: you you have a photograph of Julia Gillard, a viscerating

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Speaker 1: tourney Abbott. And you also have a photograph of the

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Speaker 1: handshake that shook the nation when Mark Latham and John

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Speaker 1: Howard met. You're clearly a nerd for this. When did

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Speaker 1: you realize you loved it more than everybody else?

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Speaker 3: You stick it up pretty early in the morning as

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Speaker 3: a kid and watch debating on television back when that

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Speaker 3: was a thing.

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Speaker 2: That's not a normal thing to do. No, so I

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Speaker 2: don't know what exists man.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well like six o'clock or five point thirty. My

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Speaker 3: parents love that, so I was into it from a

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Speaker 3: pretty early age. And then yeah, I love the sort

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Speaker 3: of the not just the theater of it all. I'm

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Speaker 3: a sportsmad person, so I like the competition of it all.

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Speaker 3: And then the fact that this is a genuine way

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Speaker 3: out to help people is good too. My dad's a

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Speaker 3: coal miner, so he was involved in ways in the

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Speaker 3: union movement, so I sort of got that side of politics.

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Speaker 3: He and some of his mates were quite senior in it.

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Speaker 3: And then mum was a small business owner, so she

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Speaker 3: was on the other side of those things talking about

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Speaker 3: the importance of small business policy. So it's sort of

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Speaker 3: blended in a weird way for a country kid to

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Speaker 3: have this love of politics. And you have to, you know,

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Speaker 3: I said, we have a great team here, and all

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Speaker 3: of them, regardless of if it's behind the camera in

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Speaker 3: the edit suite, on camera, they all have a paw

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Speaker 3: for politics, and because it becomes so engrossing, you have

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Speaker 3: to and you have to have that. So it's a

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Speaker 3: it's a blessing for me, a curse for all my mates.

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Speaker 2: And that's just the way it exists.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you do have to love it. You really do

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Speaker 1: have to love it. You never ever stop. The other

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Speaker 1: people get voted out, you stay. So you've got to

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Speaker 1: have an appetite for the fire hose of ups and downs,

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Speaker 1: don't you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well you do.

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Speaker 3: And this is a good point also, like people can

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Speaker 3: get sort of disenchanted in these jobs too, Like there

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Speaker 3: are eras of politics that are really disappointing for everyone involved,

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Speaker 3: and I think reflect badly on the country, on the

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Speaker 3: people involved. You know, jump on Twitter and see what

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Speaker 3: people think about the job where we do, and it

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Speaker 3: can be.

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Speaker 1: I haven't been on Twitter in a long time, because.

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Speaker 2: That's a pretty smart move, I would say.

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Speaker 1: On Monday, I did a podcast, just a monologue, just

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Speaker 1: reflecting on it and because it was a take I

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Speaker 1: hadn't heard, and I kind of wanted to put it

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Speaker 1: out there. Pretty much since before the Voice referendum, like

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Speaker 1: when the campaign for that started, we have been told

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Speaker 1: for nearly two years how completely different we are in

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Speaker 1: our community, and that those people over there they don't

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Speaker 1: think like you, and they're idiots and there this, and

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Speaker 1: they're that, and most people over there they don't think

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Speaker 1: like no, no, no, no. But yeah, on Saturday night, our country

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Speaker 1: showed actually, as a majority, we think way more alike

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Speaker 1: than we don't, and I think that's a really important

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Speaker 1: thing to highlight.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 3: The other thing is I think the leaders are probably

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Speaker 3: closer and more alike than we make out in the media,

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Speaker 3: and that because it is a contest and because it

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Speaker 3: is head to head have to be exacerbated and exaggerated

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Speaker 3: the difference they have. I have no doubt, I know

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Speaker 3: you said this in the podcast. I have no doubt

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Speaker 3: that of the two hundred and twenty six members of

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Speaker 3: the House and Senate here, at least two hundred and

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Speaker 3: twenty five of them are here for exactly the right reason,

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Speaker 3: because they want to make the country better. And you know,

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Speaker 3: Peter Dutton was one of those people. What he was

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Speaker 3: doing was what he believed was best for the country. Now,

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Speaker 3: it turns out the bulk of Australians when you go

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Speaker 3: two part he preferred, didn't think that, but at least

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Speaker 3: that the sentiments were right, the patriotism was right, and

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Speaker 3: this is what he thought. Was willing to fight and

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Speaker 3: argue and debate and lose and caught that loss for

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Speaker 3: because he thought he was doing the right thing. It's

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Speaker 3: the same with you know, all the labor leaders, even

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Speaker 3: through that tumultuous stage of rud Gillard Rudd. I think

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Speaker 3: they were doing what they thought was right. And that's

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Speaker 3: something you sort of I respect about the people in

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Speaker 3: this building and I think sometimes get lost. But I

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Speaker 3: know you pointed that out, and it sort of what

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Speaker 3: makes us lucky that we have leaders that have that mentality,

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Speaker 3: when you know, liberal democracies are a minority sport around

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Speaker 3: the world. Not everyone's quite so fortunate as we are,

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Speaker 3: and it's it's nice to be in the country. As

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Speaker 3: painful as an election campaign is and as annoying as

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Speaker 3: voting can be, the alternative is really not that flash

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Speaker 3: height and so if we can have this, that's a

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Speaker 3: small price to pay.

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Speaker 1: It is important. It's worth pointing out that on Saturday night,

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Speaker 1: the person who got the fewer amount of votes not

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Speaker 1: only took it, but also then willingly said goodbye to

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Speaker 1: leadership of the party. Okay, I'm done, and respected that

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Speaker 1: and walked. And that doesn't happen in some countries. They

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Speaker 1: don't give the keys to the mansion back, they keep

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Speaker 1: the army. They go, No, that's clearly a fix. I'm

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Speaker 1: not leaving. And we are so lucky that power in

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Speaker 1: this case stayed the same. But sometimes power transfers in

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Speaker 1: that country. Remember one day when Abbot got in. When

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Speaker 1: I first move back to Australia, Abbott got in and

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Speaker 1: I was crestfallen, and my big brother said, power changed.

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Speaker 1: Ideological ideas about how we run The country completely shifted

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Speaker 1: overnight and not a shot was fired. You never forget

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Speaker 1: how important that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a I think it's MAO or someone who's

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Speaker 3: a quote about you know, politics being war without the

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Speaker 3: bloodshed and war being politics with bloodshed. So this is

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Speaker 3: a better option, right, We'll take this one over everything else.

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Speaker 3: And you're right, you know, democracies are a system in

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Speaker 3: which parties lose. It happened on Saturday night, It will

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Speaker 3: happen to labor again one day. Might take a little

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Speaker 3: bit longer than I think anyone was expecting, but you know,

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Speaker 3: we're lucky.

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Speaker 1: We talked a little bit about the policies that were

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Speaker 1: being pitched by the coalition. The big ones really were

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Speaker 1: a nuclear and energy was a really really big player.

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Speaker 1: Trump seemed to be on the fringes of that kind

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Speaker 1: of politics being around and people understanding. But with there's

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Speaker 1: some kind of less obvious things that you pointed out.

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Speaker 1: You realized it had a role in the result we

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Speaker 1: saw on Saturday.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Trump was a huge factor, and more

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Speaker 3: so just because of the unstability, the instability and the

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Speaker 3: uncertainty care around the globe. You know, we're not in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four anymore. And that sounds obvious because it's

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty five. But in twenty twenty four we had

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Speaker 3: all these elections.

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Speaker 1: Twenty twenty four. Man, it's like one hundred and six

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Speaker 1: days ago on the planet.

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Speaker 2: It feels a long time ago, doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: But like you know, New Zealand, England, the US, even

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Speaker 3: somewhere like India where the government didn't lead but there

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Speaker 3: was a swing against them. It just didn't matter who

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Speaker 3: you were, what side of politics you're on, how long

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Speaker 3: you'd been there. Voters were just hitting the ejector button.

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Speaker 3: They wanted whoever was in to be out. This is

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Speaker 3: different now. We saw it in Canada where Mark Carney

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Speaker 3: wins for the Liberal Party. That's the Progressive party in Canada.

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Speaker 3: To make things complicated, Pierre Poliev was the leader there

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Speaker 3: of the Conservatives for the last four or so years.

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Speaker 2: He was a moral to win that election.

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Speaker 3: Three months ago he was had a twenty five point

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Speaker 3: lead in the polls. He lost the election and lost

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Speaker 3: his seat, just like Peter Dutton. And I think the

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Speaker 3: turning point, if not the tariffs now that obviously plays

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Speaker 3: big in Canada because of how important Canadian us politics are,

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Speaker 3: But was that moment in the Oval office with President Zelanski.

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Speaker 2: I think in that.

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Speaker 3: Moment, a lot of people who are on the fringe

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Speaker 3: of politics or maybe just tuned in, saw a bully

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Speaker 3: and saw someone who had the respect of so many

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Speaker 3: people around the world in President Zelenski, someone who didn't

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Speaker 3: have the cards Donald Trump was right, but someone being

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Speaker 3: bullied by two people that did, and that rubbed everyone

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Speaker 3: the wrong way, or rubbed a lot of people, a

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Speaker 3: majority of voters. So I reckon that was the turning

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Speaker 3: point that made everyone get a little bit antsy about

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Speaker 3: what was going on in the world.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it was the speech that needed to be given

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Speaker 3: to President Zelenski, maybe it's the wake up call. Will

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Speaker 3: wait and see, but it certainly was the wake up

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Speaker 3: call that we are in different times right now, and

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Speaker 3: that's been reflected in these two votes.

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Speaker 2: You asked about other factors. Look, taxes are a big thing.

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Speaker 3: I think labor did a great job of keeping the

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Speaker 3: secret the fact that going with income tax cuts. Now

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Speaker 3: I know it's five bucks a week in twelve months time,

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Speaker 3: which isn't a huge amount of money, but god, that's

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Speaker 3: better in your pocket than in the governments and then

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Speaker 3: it becomes ten bucks a week forever after that. The

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Speaker 3: other thing was that student debt relief. Just speaking to people,

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Speaker 3: just if you're on the fringe, you're not interested or

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Speaker 3: part of that big voting cohort that we now have.

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Speaker 3: Then that are young people having twenty percent or whatever

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Speaker 3: it was of your hex bill wiped up? Must be

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Speaker 3: must be an attractive option if you're arming an rim

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Speaker 3: where you go. So when you tie that in with

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Speaker 3: the energy thing, which is such a huge part, nuclear

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Speaker 3: has been given the thumbs down pretty comprehensively. Australians I

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Speaker 3: think are past that debate over energy in many ways.

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Speaker 2: We know that coal is going to fade.

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Speaker 3: The coal fire power stations are starting to get a

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Speaker 3: bit long in the tooth.

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Speaker 2: They have to be replaced.

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Speaker 3: Whether it's gas that gets us to some kind of

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Speaker 3: stability moving forward, if we can get hydro green hydrogen

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Speaker 3: or actual hydrogen power that's more reliable, or just look

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Speaker 3: at people around Australia embracing rooftop solar. I mean that

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Speaker 3: is the great success story of this country that probably

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Speaker 3: isn't told enough that I think it's something like, you know,

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Speaker 3: over fifty percent of houses in Queensland, you know, have

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Speaker 3: rooftop solar. The males in like the juries come back

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Speaker 3: and made their decision. Now it's how we best take

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Speaker 3: advantage of those opportunities that being a giant island with

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Speaker 3: lots of sun and lots of wind and still lots

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Speaker 3: under the ground give us. That's going to be one

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Speaker 3: of the big challenges for this government because if they

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Speaker 3: can get that right, it sets up generations into the future.

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Speaker 1: How can you know supposedly the Economic Rationalist Party, the

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Speaker 1: Party the coalition of the Australian Liberal Party and the

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Speaker 1: Conservatives and the Nationals which are further to the right

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Speaker 1: than them. Clearly they're very clever people. With the time

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Speaker 1: I've spent in camera, it's almost like human chat GBT.

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Speaker 1: You can say, look, I want to do this thing,

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Speaker 1: and you provided stuff to go. Can you go and

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Speaker 1: find me all the things from the last ten years

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Speaker 1: and compare it to that and people will go and

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Speaker 1: do it and then come back and bring you the report.

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Speaker 1: You might not you don't have to be an economic

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Speaker 1: superstar to have these jobs, but you have access to

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Speaker 1: so much resource, so many resources, so many super smart people.

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Speaker 1: You can ask questions, how did these guys miss that?

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Speaker 1: How did these guys miss something like that figure you

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Speaker 1: mentioned in Queensland where people have voted with their wallets.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I go up to Western Sydney sometimes to shoot stuff

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Speaker 1: and people have solar panels like not out there. They

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Speaker 1: don't do it because they love trees, because it's hot

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Speaker 1: as shit and airkon is free in the day, so yes, please,

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Speaker 1: I'll take it, thank you. How do they miss that?

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Speaker 1: How can you get into a situation where you miss

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Speaker 1: something massive signal like that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Like, we went to Bunderberg on day one of the

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Speaker 3: campaigns and I was amazed with how many rooftop solos

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Speaker 3: are up there. You know, this is an area where

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Speaker 3: again there's plenty of sun.

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Speaker 2: These were probably lower social going to wake parts of town. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but they were still embracing it. I think. Look.

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Speaker 3: The other thing is, look, it's obviously expensive. It's hard

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Speaker 3: to get people into rooftop solar and there are many

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Speaker 3: challenges coming down the line with making the most of

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Speaker 3: it and disposing and renewing and getting batteries and trying

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Speaker 3: to make sure that the grid still works with it.

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Speaker 3: There's a big upfront outlay on the Poles and Wise

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think that's going to be part of a review

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Speaker 3: that goes on. There's lots of parts of the I mean,

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Speaker 3: the Nationals were always pretty David little Prowd's pretty pro

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Speaker 3: rooftop solar.

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Speaker 2: He sees the benefit of it.

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Speaker 3: But this is all going to be part of a

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Speaker 3: huge review that goes on into the direction of the

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Speaker 3: Conservative Party. And Australia needs two strong parties. That the

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Speaker 3: best countries have two strong parties, and so that's a

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Speaker 3: really important discussion that's going to be coming out.

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Speaker 1: You say you're going to have a review, like they

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Speaker 1: already did a review and they seemingly just ignored everything

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Speaker 1: that it recommended. What's another review going to do? What

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Speaker 1: does the opposition need to do in Australia to make

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Speaker 1: sure that it can provide a strong opposition because if

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Speaker 1: without a stronger position, I mean, I'll let you explain

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Speaker 1: it in your opinion. Why does democracy need a stronger position?

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Speaker 3: Because all the good ideas don't come from one site,

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Speaker 3: and you need someone to hold people to account. And

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Speaker 3: if you get comfy, you can get lazy. If you

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Speaker 3: get two influenced by just one idea. I think the

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Speaker 3: best the best ideas come from a debate, come from

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Speaker 3: a discussion and fully exploring each possible option.

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Speaker 2: Australia. I'm worried about the comments.

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Speaker 3: Here, but Australia did pretty well through COVID and keeping

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Speaker 3: Australians safe because there was an acceptance from the opposition

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Speaker 3: at the federal level, but also a back and forth push.

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Speaker 3: Australia has gotten through really tricky times in the past

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Speaker 3: because there have been good oppositions debating, raising ideas, challenging

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Speaker 3: when there are bad governments, and that's sort of the

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Speaker 3: best system we have at the moment. Absolute power doesn't

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Speaker 3: seem to work in ti many places, and that's why

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Speaker 3: all the strongest country is the best places to live.

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Speaker 3: Countries with democracies at the moment. You know, whether you

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Speaker 3: can see the rise of China is the one that

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Speaker 3: bucks that. I still think I'd rather live here.

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Speaker 1: I would agree with that. So in that and I'm

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Speaker 1: surely the people who are I mean, Angus Taylor is

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Speaker 1: going to be the I don't know, like, what does

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Speaker 1: the coalition need to do now in your opinion, to

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Speaker 1: give us the strong opposition to give our country the

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Speaker 1: very best chance of holding this power to account.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it needs to.

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Speaker 3: I look at all a lot of those Teal independents

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Speaker 3: and I think at heart they are liberal voters. John

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Speaker 3: Howard had the broad Church, Robert Menzi has created this

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Speaker 3: party for that idea. Those Teal MPs should be Liberals,

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Speaker 3: but the party had left them and so they created

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Speaker 3: their own identity, their own brand, and have done quite well.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be too hard for whoever is leading

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Speaker 3: the Liberal Party to get back to power if they

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Speaker 3: can't hold those seats, the seats of Julie Bishop and

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Speaker 3: Malcolm Turnbull and Tony Abbott and Bromwin Bishop, I mean

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Speaker 3: the seats that was of John Howard and of Peter Costello.

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Speaker 3: Where do you go if you can't win those seats.

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Speaker 3: It's too hard to argue for the people of Western

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Speaker 3: Sydney while also trying to mount the same argument and

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Speaker 3: win over BONDI if you have one of those tied up,

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Speaker 3: you can then sort of breed life into the other

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Speaker 3: one or focus on the other one. The other thing

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Speaker 3: is obviously losing young people, and beyond everything else, it's

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Speaker 3: losing women. I mean the gender split from the internal

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Speaker 3: party numbers that were coming to us were unlike anything

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Speaker 3: we'd seen before. And I don't know what the solution

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Speaker 3: to that is, but I think anyone in wa including

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Speaker 3: Colin Binnett, the former premier who said this publicly looks

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Speaker 3: at that vote in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: I think it was when.

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Speaker 3: Julie Bishop put her hand up to be leader of

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Speaker 3: the Liberal Party running against Scott Morrison and Peter Dutton

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Speaker 3: and was pretty comprehensively spat out in that first round

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Speaker 3: of voting and said, well, what are we doing, you know,

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Speaker 3: in terms of qualified, capable, smart, well presented women. If

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Speaker 3: you're not taking a chance and at least getting Julie

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Speaker 3: Bishop of the top two, who are you looking for?

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Speaker 3: Who's the answer? And that's going to be part of

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Speaker 3: that review. As you said, it was part of the

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Speaker 3: last review, the one that Brian Locknahan and Jane Hume did.

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Speaker 3: It identified women as a problem, nothing to be learned

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Speaker 3: from the second kick of a mule, but they just

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Speaker 3: got it.

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Speaker 2: So it's time to.

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Speaker 1: Learn when it comes to leadership in our country. Though,

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Speaker 1: what do you think, what do you see from the

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Speaker 1: outside as being the inhibitor for people who do make

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Speaker 1: great leaders But like I don't want to go anywhere

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Speaker 1: near politics. Yeah, you know, how do we get the

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Speaker 1: best people who can lead and show a great visionary idea.

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Speaker 1: How do we get them to feel okay about going

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Speaker 1: into Canberra.

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Speaker 2: I think we'll get more.

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Speaker 3: I think what's happened in particularly in the last fifteen years,

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Speaker 3: and we've just lived through a really turbulent time in

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Speaker 3: Australian politics. We had two effective potentially even three civil

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Speaker 3: wars within the parties. We had the Rod Gillard Rudd

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Speaker 3: years in labor that wiped out a lot of talent.

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Speaker 3: They sort of re emerged having held on to people

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Speaker 3: like Penny Wong and Bill Shorten and Anthony Albernezi, but

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Speaker 3: there was a lot of talent, someone like Nicola Roxon

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Speaker 3: or Greg Combay or Stephen Smith that got cast aside

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Speaker 3: during those wars, even Wayne Swann, because it just you

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Speaker 3: start losing people. When people lose and you get these

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Speaker 3: battlefield promotions. Then we saw it with the Coalition. I

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Speaker 3: kept thinking during this campaign, imagine if you had Josh

438
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 3: Freedenberg there for Peter Dutton, or you had Christian Porter.

439
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 3: Now that's obviously a very different scenario, but someone who

440
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 3: could have been a future leader, someone like Kello Dwyer

441
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 3: who'd taken the seat of Peter Costello and was a

442
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 3: rising star but got out because she'd had enough, you know.

443
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 3: I mean, even if you had twenty seventeen Barnaby Joyce,

444
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 3: it would have been good for him. Malcolm Turnbull. There's

445
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 3: all these Christopher Pine people that were sort of spat

446
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 3: out by the system.

447
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 2: Even Simon Birmingham had enough.

448
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 3: Like good people that you lose and therefore you lose

449
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 3: all that sort of the talent and the institutional knowledge.

450
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 3: Now the Labour Party have come back, they now got

451
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 3: young people coming through both here in Canberra, but look

452
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 3: around the country.

453
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 2: I mean, but the people here will look at Peter.

454
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 3: Malanowskis in South Australia and say like that is the

455
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 3: exemplar of a young leader. Good ideas is stunningly competent,

456
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 3: it seems. When it comes to actually governing for the Libs,

457
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 3: they would point to someone like in the past, glad

458
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 3: to Spiagically and even Dominic Pereite was pretty universally liked

459
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 3: on both sides as someone coming through. So they've got

460
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 3: to find someone like that. Chris a fully up in

461
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,719
Speaker 3: Queensland seems pretty good. Leafinociaro and the Northern Territory has

462
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 3: been around a long time and came through this same

463
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 3: kind of wipeout that you had to re emerge through.

464
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 2: So if you're a liberal, it is soul.

465
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 3: Searching time, and that's what they're going to have to do.

466
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 3: There are a handful of backbenches that are still here

467
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 3: that could eventually one day rise to the ranks, but

468
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 3: they're still.

469
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 2: Three to six years ago, years away.

470
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 3: It's just going to be forced upon them a little

471
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 3: earlier than they hope.

472
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: You mentioned a couple of names there that their careers

473
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 1: got sidetracked fairly significantly by the I mean someone gave

474
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: someone you know, you said they wouldn't worry about any comments, mate, Like,

475
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 1: people can think what they're going to think. You're never

476
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: going to change their mind, dude, No one's ever going

477
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: to change their mind. In a comment section of an

478
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 1: Instagram post, I don't even try, someone was at me

479
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: going like, how dare you that bloke's just lost his job? Dunt.

480
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, he's going to be working for excellent like tomorrow.

481
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: How do we how do we, you know, help people

482
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: not be tempted by you know, dipping their finger in

483
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: the bag, or be help people when they're in power,

484
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: not set themselves up for twenty years of work with

485
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: something that they've just written policy for.

486
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've got You've got to show that there is

487
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 3: something that can be achieved by being a member of parliament.

488
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 3: And I think the fact that independence had become so

489
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 3: prominent shows that they believe they can have a difference.

490
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 3: David Pocock's a great example here in Canberra. He won

491
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 3: I would say, a surprise victory to get into the

492
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 3: Senate three years ago. He has just romped in this

493
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 3: second time around, and he learned the advantage of being

494
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 3: the last person at the table when it comes to negotiations.

495
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 3: He got some things he wanted done. I think he's

496
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 3: going to still lead the charge for that given where

497
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 3: things are at. Beyond that, you're right about these people

498
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 3: are human sort of. I straddled this one myself too,

499
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 3: because yes they are. And again I said, they've all

500
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 3: got the right intentions and they're good people. And then

501
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 3: on the same note, on Saturday night, Liz Daniels and

502
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 3: I were dunking them into a tank of water on

503
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 3: a VR system on nine electric coverage, but it's because

504
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 3: it's not their seat, it's the seat of the people,

505
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 3: and if the people say you're not the right person

506
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 3: to represent us, then that's the way it goes. You

507
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,479
Speaker 3: get a nice payout. As you said, there's probably jobs waiting,

508
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 3: particularly for something like Peter Dutton who's been in there

509
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 3: for a long time. But for those first term backbenches

510
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 3: it can be a tough time because your phone stops ringing.

511
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 3: But also it's not something you're entitled to this. You

512
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 3: are representing your area. That is something that very few

513
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 3: Australians get the chance to do. And if the people

514
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 3: decide you're not the person to represent them anymore than unfortunately,

515
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 3: that's the way it goes. You get to pay out,

516
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 3: your staff get to pay out and best of luck

517
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 3: with the rest of your career. In a way that

518
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 3: someone working at a steel works if it closes down doesn't,

519
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 3: or someone working in the mining industry as it starts

520
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 3: to transition doesn't.

521
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 2: They have to go train. We're encouraging them to do.

522
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 2: There are jobs out there and we should all be

523
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 2: that way.

524
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: It's when someone loses the Grand Final we don't give

525
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: them a cup as well. They played the game knowing

526
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 1: they might win it. Yeah, and that's part of the

527
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: gig that they're willingly doing that they might have happened

528
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 1: to them in a long time. It might be a surprise,

529
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 1: but that's part of the death of the deal.

530
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

531
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 3: I love a Grand Final as well. I think the

532
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 3: stake's a bit higher here. That's the other part of

533
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 3: it also.

534
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 2: I mean not if the Raiders eventually make it, then

535
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: it would be high.

536
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: But I don't know about that penalty. The other night

537
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 1: that was it was very slippery.

538
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 2: But we've had plenty. The other way, abdo.

539
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 1: Would have been like jizzing in his pants eight forty

540
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: five Sunday night, pissing rain, golden goal over time, plane cannon,

541
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: sweat blood, open foreheads penalty. Ooh, it was fucking amazing.

542
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 2: Gut it was. Yeah.

543
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 3: After five weeks of campaign and probably ten weeks of

544
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 3: getting ready for it, that was the perfect finish.

545
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: I was trying to explain to someone this morning about

546
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: she goes I don't care about was like, no, you

547
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: really need to start looking at it, because it is

548
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: the way that people who don't know each other. Is

549
00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 1: the way that people who don't know each other can

550
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: communicate about something they have in common.

551
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's empathy, right, it's empathy for the emotion

552
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 3: I could sell you. I was flying back at one

553
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 3: point from Perth on this election. I can't remember why

554
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 3: we're in Perth that we were, and elections are grilling, right,

555
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 3: they're hard. It's a privilege to cover it. But it

556
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 3: still is a long time away in the hotel rooms

557
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 3: and not a lot of sleep. And I was watching

558
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 3: Rory McElroy win the Masters and just sobbing on the

559
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 3: plane flying back to Perth. What the person next to

560
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 3: me thought, But you know, that's what happens in these

561
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 3: events for sport.

562
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: Because you care, all right, you cry over golf because

563
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: you care, and this is what people need to remember.

564
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 1: But that does bring up the emotional idea, and we

565
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: saw it thrown around a bit. Tell to me, if

566
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: you would, about the idea of weakness and kindness and

567
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: accusations of either in this when it comes to our leaders.

568
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really good point. And look, this is

569
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 2: clearly week was clearly a word.

570
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 3: That came up in Liberal Party focus groups because they

571
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 3: For the better part of fifteen months now, I've been

572
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 3: trying to paint the prime Minister this week. It clearly

573
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 3: hasn't worked or hasn't worked the affectedness they needed. And

574
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 3: I don't know whether that's because all of a sudden

575
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 3: compassion has become more.

576
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: Of a virtue. Perhaps the.

577
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 3: Association with Week was easier for Donald Trump because you

578
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 3: had Joe Biden in the office and physically he looked

579
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 3: like he was deteriorating in front of it.

580
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: Apparently they had him hidden in the room and he

581
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: didn't know where he was, and they're like, no, no,

582
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: just keep him in there. Don't let anyone see you

583
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: Like it was clearly not. It was fucked of them

584
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: to let him do that.

585
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 3: And that's why the debate was the thing that ended him. Right,

586
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 3: we all saw what had been perhaps being hidden. But

587
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 3: there is it seems a new era now where perhaps

588
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 3: compassion is looked upon in a better way. I go

589
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 3: to President Zelenski again.

590
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 2: Before the war.

591
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 3: Started, I don't think anyone would associate him with the

592
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 3: word strong. But since then I meant it is compassion

593
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 3: and and stoicism and all those things that have made

594
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 3: him such a guiding light for the West and for

595
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 3: freedom and all the rest. So I think this probably

596
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 3: is still an argument and this is one I think

597
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 3: you made in your analysis, that that mentality that if

598
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 3: you say it loud enough, you could be strong and wrong.

599
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 3: But the strong parts what's going to be important, not

600
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 3: the wrong. That still exists, but it's not as effective

601
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 3: as it perhaps once was, and people might have cottoned

602
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 3: on to the machismo.

603
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,719
Speaker 2: As an answer. We'll see. I don't know.

604
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 3: I still think in troubled times people tend to drift

605
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 3: towards someone they think is strong and is safe.

606
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: But then look what's happened.

607
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 3: These are about as traveled times as we've had in

608
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 3: the last twenty years, and the Australian population has said, well,

609
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 3: we want Anthony Albernesi and we want labor.

610
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 2: So either that.

611
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 3: Continually referred to referring to him as week didn't work

612
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 3: and didn't land or Australians have seen through that. And

613
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 3: that's clearly what what the PM thinks because he said

614
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: that new speech on Saturday night time.

615
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: And again we have rewarded our leaders for boldly showing

616
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: strength and boldly showing empathy and kindness and compassion. I

617
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: think to Fraser when he at the click of a

618
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: finger just saved thousands and thousands of Vietnames refugees stuck

619
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: in a rock in the middle of Philippines dying of

620
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: first and went not you can come here, and like

621
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: that was a conservative government that brought that. During the

622
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: Tinuanaman Square massacre, Bob Hawk allowed all the Chinese students

623
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: he was staying here to stay. And I've met people

624
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 1: like this and they I remember when I met one

625
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: when she had a photo of Hawk on the wall

626
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: of her shop and she goes, he saved my life.

627
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: I never found that.

628
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: And we rewarded him bring I mean, we rewarded the party.

629
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: He didn't got the late leadership, but we rewarded the

630
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: party were bringing them back. And I think, like, as

631
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: much as I disagree with the years of the Howard

632
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,239
Speaker 1: government in so many ways, how strong do you have

633
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: to be to look at your base in the eye

634
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: and say we have to take the guns away. Yeah,

635
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: and we're gonna do it, Like, how fucking strong are you?

636
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: That is strength? But it is based in empathy and

637
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: it's based in kindness. We value that as a country.

638
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and did it through through the Queensland government as well,

639
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 3: and some pretty you know, as a conservative Queensland government.

640
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: That they got on board. We've all seen that John olverclip.

641
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 3: But you know, there was a lot of people that

642
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 3: lost skin because of it, but how many lives have

643
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 3: been saved because they had the courage to do that.

644
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: And it's I don't see the idea of playing it

645
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: as a bad thing as is. To be honest, I'm

646
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: going to say it. I think it's un Australian. It's

647
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: UnAustralian to say kindness is weak. Fuck you. It takes

648
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: strength to be kind and some of the greatest things

649
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: our leaders have done have been incredibly kind and unbelievably

650
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: strong to execute, and that is what makes us what

651
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: we are.

652
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: And pay dividends in the long run too. That's the

653
00:31:59,480 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: other part.

654
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 3: You know, that big cohort of Vietnamese Australians, there's now

655
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: some of them in the Parliament and lots of them

656
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 3: that are contributing to our country. It's the same with

657
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: the Chinese at Gentlemen, It's the same with John Howard.

658
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 3: And yeah, that's that is the one consistent right, it's

659
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 3: paid dividends the whole way along.

660
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: We need to take quick break from Charles Crash. I've

661
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: got to play some hats.

662
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 2: Will be right back.

663
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: Sometimes in an election there's a moment that either wins

664
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: it or loses it. I think of you know, I'm

665
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: old man, but I think one of the most classic

666
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: examples is Juke Kakas, who was on the road to winning.

667
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: He got his photo taken in a fucking tank. Well,

668
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: you know, and that's the photo that got ran and

669
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: that was it. It was all over. Do you think

670
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: there was a moment in this election that either pushed

671
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: things one way or the other for the parties.

672
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 3: Look, it seems like when you look at the focus groups,

673
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 3: it was the budget for some reason. Like the budget

674
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 3: was the one that was a pretty mundane budget. The

675
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 3: tax cuts were small. They hid what is a mountain

676
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 3: of debt that's coming That has to be a real

677
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 3: focus for how we fixed that in the long run.

678
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 3: The Liberal Party not realizing how big an issue that

679
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: might be. I was shocked on the night when they

680
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 3: said they wouldn't pass on those income tax cuts to everyone.

681
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 3: I just I couldn't fathom the party of Bob Menzie's

682
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 3: going to an election with a higher income tax rate

683
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 3: than the Labor Party. It still baffles me to this

684
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 3: day how they managed to do that. Beyond that, I

685
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 3: don't think there was any knockout moment during the campaign.

686
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: The backflip on work from home was clearly disastrous. The

687
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 3: policy was bad, it was badly put together. The focus groups,

688
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 3: if there were focus groups, must have told them this

689
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 3: was going to be a problem. And having to backflip

690
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 3: then serve two purposes in that the feedback must have

691
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 3: been coming from those handing out and those door knocking.

692
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 3: I've heard that from them. But to then flip around

693
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 3: it meant that anyone that actually supported the policy felt betrayed.

694
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 3: Anyone that hated the policy still didn't trust that you

695
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 3: were going to do it in the long run. So

696
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 3: that was probably the indicative moment where things were going

697
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 3: really badly, that kind of backflip on that kind of policy.

698
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: Can I just ask you on that, as someone who's

699
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: been a nerd of politics since they were a child,

700
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: as you told me before, what would it take for

701
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: you to see a leader changing their mind as a

702
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: leader changing their mind and not call it a backflip.

703
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 2: They have to explain it.

704
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 3: When we look at something like the best example started

705
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 3: last year with the Stage three tax cuts that were coming,

706
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 3: and the labor government had said all along all through

707
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 3: the campaign that they wouldn't change what was set up

708
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 3: by the Morrison government. They clearly had intentions for quite

709
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 3: a while, and I think they all admit to you

710
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 3: privately now at least, that they had this idea that

711
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 3: they wanted to see something different, and they did and

712
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,720
Speaker 3: they changed it. And they stripped away from the top

713
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 3: tax bracket probably four and a half grands worth of

714
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 3: tax cuts and fed them through to lower tax brackets,

715
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 3: which means effectively everyone got a tax cut again, even

716
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 3: though Stage one and two had targeted lower middle incomes.

717
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 2: They said, okay, now it's everyone again. That's a backflip.

718
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 3: I don't think all backflips, as you're saying, are bad,

719
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 3: and clearly this one wasn't when it comes to the

720
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 3: long run for the government. But it's still reneging on

721
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 3: what they'd said at the last election. To their credit,

722
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 3: when they finally admitted they were doing it a couple

723
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 3: of days after we'd reported it, came out front of

724
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 3: the up explained it copped the criticism and you have

725
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 3: to cop the criticism if that is something you are doing,

726
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 3: and wore it and moved on again. No one's going

727
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 3: to get it right every time. So it's good that

728
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 3: people change their minds. It's like it's good when they

729
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 3: take each other's policies, like it was a better policy.

730
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 3: Great take it. I'm happy for that. I don't care

731
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 3: who came up with the idea as long as it's

732
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 3: implement did best idea wins. This was just one this

733
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 3: close to an election campaign when it came to that

734
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 3: work from home that voters clearly didn't believe it. So

735
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 3: that was the problem.

736
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 1: You mentioned earlier that Peter doesn't believe he's doing the

737
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: right thing, and I absolutely agree with that. Yeah, However,

738
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: he has spent years now avoiding people like you who

739
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: will ask him tricky questions, only taking phone calls from

740
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: a particularly small cannon on one hand kind of journal

741
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: and not being at a press conference. There was that

742
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: moment where I mean, were you in the room when

743
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: everyone started It wasn't really a stack on, but people

744
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: were really kind of starting to throw the barbecue skewers

745
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: his way, and he didn't really know what to do

746
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: with it. Like, if you're going to lead this party,

747
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: you do have to be you do have to be

748
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 1: out there, you do have to put yourself out to

749
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: the press. Corps. You do have to show the people

750
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: that you can explain yourself.

751
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, in two ways. You've got to be match fit

752
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 3: is what you're saying. And for all the criticians donald Trump,

753
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 3: that one thing he does do is he's very accessible.

754
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 3: You know, we've had more questions from my mate and

755
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 3: my colleague John o'curzley to Donald Trump, and I think

756
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 3: all of Australian press got to Joe Biden in those

757
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 3: four years. But what we've now the two parts with

758
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 3: with Peter Dutton Doon that one you've got to be

759
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 3: match fit.

760
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 2: You've got to be prepared for, as you said.

761
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 3: Those moments on the campaign when things are hard and

762
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 3: you have to defend yourself and make the argument and

763
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 3: convince people change people's minds. The other part is, and

764
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 3: this is going back to that review, the problem that

765
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 3: the modern Liberal party face. It is akin a little

766
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 3: way to what happened with the Conservatives in the UK

767
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 3: and in the US. But if you are just narrow

768
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 3: casting to one radio station or one TV network, you

769
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 3: get in a real bind. If you're just getting high,

770
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 3: if your own supply, if it's only the people that

771
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 3: are liberal branch party members that are watching and therefore

772
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 3: they are voting on and keep electing for those positions

773
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 3: the people that they see on that television station. Then

774
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 3: you start appealing to those people directly, and it doesn't

775
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 3: reflect the majority of Australians and it doesn't reflect the

776
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 3: center of Australian politics. And so that's one of the

777
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 3: big challenges the Liberal Party has to have, is that

778
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 3: they can't just become the party of Sky News and

779
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 3: sky News ufter Duck in particular. You know, there's some

780
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 3: great reporters over there, some of the best in this

781
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 3: building work there. But if you are just narrowcasting to

782
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 3: a group of people that think in a very similar way,

783
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 3: you can get caught thinking that way and thinking that

784
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 3: everyone thinks that way, where they don't.

785
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 2: And that was.

786
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: Reflected watch the third episode of the Cagne documentary. He's

787
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: standing on the floor of Madison Square Garden with one

788
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty people in the same T shirt around him,

789
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 1: clearly unwell, clearly needing help. No one's saying shit because

790
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: they all get to wear the new ye'sies. You know,

791
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: it's a story as old as time. The closer that

792
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: people get to that unbridled wealth and power, the less

793
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: the word no comes up in their conversations.

794
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's a problem, right, that's where that's why

795
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 3: you need a good opposition, yes, because you want someone

796
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 3: to say no to you if you're getting too far ahead.

797
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: And that's again that's a challenge.

798
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 3: I'm sure that will come out in the review as well,

799
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 3: that they need to broaden the party base and broaden

800
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 3: who they speak to, because clearly if the single party,

801
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 3: like the primary vote sits at thirty two or thirty

802
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 3: three or it ends up and you're only getting one

803
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 3: in three and some of those legacy.

804
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 2: Voters that have always voted for.

805
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 3: You, you're not convincing the right people go on podcasts,

806
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 3: spread the wings, you know, I shoutouts their mate to mine.

807
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 3: But the Tuda Advocate did a podcast with Jane Hume

808
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 3: and with Angus Taylor and Susan Lee and it was great.

809
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 3: It personalized them, they said, Jane Hume walked in there

810
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 3: and charmed a lot of them. Get them out, show

811
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 3: other people that you can have this mentality and this

812
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 3: ability to connect with them and.

813
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:19,959
Speaker 2: It will go a long way.

814
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 3: We didn't see that with Peter Dutton in particular as leader,

815
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,919
Speaker 3: but the Liberal Party in general, I think that will

816
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 3: be one of the one of the instructions that come

817
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 3: from that review is that the KPI can't just be

818
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 3: how often you preach to the converted.

819
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 2: You have to go and convert people yourself.

820
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: There. I can't imagine what it would be like to

821
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: wake up on Sunday morning as Anthony albaneasy, because it's

822
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: a at the same time, it's both the most powerful

823
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: you could ever be and also in the most danger

824
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: you could ever be, because you could probably count in

825
00:40:53,760 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: hours how long he's got to deliver something that we

826
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: asked for on Saturday, and if that doesn't show up

827
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, as a country would be like, wait, what

828
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: happened to and we could total look like that, what

829
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: in your opinion, what needs to happen now? What do

830
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: they need to start showing? What do they need to

831
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: start communicating to keep us from going, hey, hey, hey,

832
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: where's all the things?

833
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 2: You're right?

834
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 3: You think the last people have had this kind of power.

835
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 3: John Howard in two thousand and four had both the

836
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 3: Senate and the House. He was gone and lost his seat.

837
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 3: Three years later, Campbell Newman won a thumping victory in

838
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 3: Queensland when he replaced the Anna Bli Peter Beatty government.

839
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 3: He was gone at the very next election. There's no

840
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 3: Mark McGowan over in Wa was state daddy over there.

841
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 3: He had had enough by the time the next election

842
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 3: rolled around. The party still won, but he was gone

843
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 3: on a personal note. So there's no guarantee, right and

844
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 3: and you're right now, there's no one else to blame.

845
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 3: In many ways, between Labor and the Greens, they'd likely

846
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 3: control the Senate. Labor has a huge majority in the House.

847
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 3: So look at our problems we have right now, and

848
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 3: you've got to start fixing housing number one. And it's

849
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 3: the first thing Jim Chalmer has said as well. If

850
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 3: we can't get people in houses, or we can't make

851
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 3: houses affordable to both buy for those that aspire to

852
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 3: that or at least rent and live in, then there

853
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 3: will be a backlash. It is the biggest issue in

854
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 3: cost of living. We've got a huge amount of debt

855
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 3: in the country and we've got ourselves through COVID, but

856
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,879
Speaker 3: there's structural stuff that has to turn around if we're

857
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 3: going to go through a trillion dollars, and that was

858
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 3: always going to happen at some stage. It's the interest

859
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: that we're paying on that that has to come from programs.

860
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 3: You know, that's money that could be spent on things

861
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 3: like hospitals and schools and training and reskilling people and

862
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 3: infrastructure and all those things that make life better. Beyond that,

863
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 3: the promise to staked his credibility and said his Prime

864
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 3: ministership will depend on his ability to deliver.

865
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: More bulk billing. You know, people want to be able

866
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: to go to a hospital.

867
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 3: And then there is the issue of AI and productivity

868
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 3: and somehow working out how we as a nation get

869
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 3: better at producing stuff at a time when industries are

870
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 3: sort of leaving our shores and diversifying and finding our way.

871
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 3: Not to mention you know, how you deal with Donald Trump,

872
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 3: how you deal with a rising China, with war in

873
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 3: the Middle East and in Europe. It's still a dangerous

874
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 3: and difficult time as it was a week ago. He

875
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 3: just has a whole lot more power to do something

876
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 3: with it. And then the one we mentioned earlier, probably

877
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 3: the biggest one is energy. You know, if we finally

878
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 3: have stability when it comes to energy policy, how do

879
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 3: you implement it? How do you roll out those poles

880
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 3: and wires, How do you create a workable green hydrogen

881
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 3: system that we put so much money towards and is

882
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 3: still lots of people skeptical that actually can work. And

883
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,479
Speaker 3: how do you get the wind farms up, the solar

884
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 3: panels out there, the batteries installed, and then shore up

885
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 3: that gas supply to keep Australia going or while keeping

886
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 3: prices down.

887
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 2: It's a huge challenge.

888
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 3: Just as big as it was a week ago, only

889
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 3: now you have fewer barriers to implementing what you said

890
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 3: you did as Prime minister. And that's the challenge that

891
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 3: will come. On a nerdy political note, there's going to

892
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 3: be a lot of anxious back benches that would like

893
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 3: a job and a promotion as well. That becomes a

894
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 3: challenge for probably eighteen months down the path when that

895
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 3: big caucus can bring big problems or big agitators as well.

896
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: There's some political nerdery that I don't quite understand there.

897
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: So the backbenches what like the and it works like piets.

898
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 1: So we're talking like the apprentices or like the third years.

899
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: The don't muite have their own truck yet, but they're

900
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: on the.

901
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 3: Site exactly that young people, the people that have been

902
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 3: you know, in the office for three years now to

903
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 3: be four or five or six, and they'll say, well,

904
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 3: I joined this to become a minister or potentially become

905
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 3: prime minister, because you know, everyone has that little burning

906
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 3: desire in the back of the head and I'm not

907
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 3: going anywhere. And there's this new class that have come

908
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 3: in and maybe some of them are getting spoken about,

909
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 3: and I'm being left behind. And you know, there's this

910
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 3: old group who actually aren't that old age wise, but

911
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 3: have been there for a long time. You know, remnants

912
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 3: of the Gillard government that are still in power now

913
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 3: and still in the cabinet. And the young people will

914
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 3: be starting to ask when they're going to move on

915
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 3: and when they get a turn, and it's hard to

916
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 3: keep everyone happy. There's more people that will be thinking

917
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,919
Speaker 3: they deserve the same amount of jobs and that makes

918
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 3: it a little harder when it comes to managing managing

919
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 3: the group. And with more people, there will never be

920
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 3: more problem. There will be scandals. Tony Blash to say,

921
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 3: like there will be scandaled. Don't for a second think

922
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 3: there won't be. And so it's luckly that will come as.

923
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: Well it does. I said this on Saturday night. I

924
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: was on a speaking of not newspapers or television. I

925
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: did a live stream with Josh Zepp's PNAS politics.

926
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 2: I wasy man.

927
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: It was awesome, but good Newcastle guy too, right, Yeah,

928
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,240
Speaker 1: he's doing great shit. And the idea that in our country,

929
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: the person who becomes a leader isn't necessarily the person

930
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: who's the best leader. They're just the best person at

931
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: playing the game of that getting from the back pinch

932
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: through the corcus room up to a ministerial position and

933
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: then finding their way through a spill, for example, all

934
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: the way to the top job. It's not the person

935
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: who can stand like a lighthouse at Kate Byron and

936
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: go here we are, let's do this. It would be

937
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: nice to see that kind of leadership win, but at

938
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: this point it seems like it's horse trading and deals

939
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: and shit, and I don't know if that's the best

940
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: thing for us.

941
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 3: No, you're right, like good governance should be good politics.

942
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 3: So if you can get things done, it should see

943
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 3: you rise. And there are examples of that where people

944
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 3: that factionally aren't ideal, or aren't aligned, or aren't powerful

945
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 3: can come through someone like Kevin Rudd. You know, for

946
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 3: all that's happened since in two thousand and seven. He

947
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 3: emerged because of excellent ability to communicate with Australians and

948
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 3: without a real strong factional sort of allegiances. It's also

949
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 3: why it was so easy for them to drag him down,

950
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 3: which at the time seemed done precedent, but since it

951
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 3: seemed like the norm. So look, there are examples when

952
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: it can happen and has happened. I'm kind of with you.

953
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 2: It would be great to see you think of our

954
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 2: great leaders.

955
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 3: You know, someone like Bob Hawk, who was outside of

956
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 3: parliament al together when he came in, certainly in the

957
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 3: trade union movement, so I certainly knew a bit about

958
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 3: backroom politics. But yeah, there is This is the system

959
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 3: we have. I'm not sure it's the perfect system, but

960
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 3: I think if people are starting to think that way,

961
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 3: that it would be great to have outstanding leaders that

962
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 3: can step into the mold, then they probably will at

963
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 3: some point because if that's what enough people want, that's

964
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 3: who they vote for.

965
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 1: We talked earlier about why a strong opposition is vital

966
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: in a democracy, and I mentioned the guns off the

967
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: streets before depart just by where my ideology lies politically.

968
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 1: Some of the biggest changes in my country. They have

969
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 1: made me so proud to be in Australian have emerged

970
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: from the right side of politics. We talked about the

971
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: gun thing, but there was a Liberal Party seat from

972
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: Far North Queensland that he retired. Warren Inch. He is

973
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 1: the reason that we got same sex marriage over the line.

974
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: It only takes one, when one person to be in

975
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: there and to slowly over time going, guys, we're gonna

976
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: have to do this. Abbott came in. He says, Okay,

977
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: I won't do it while you're here, but when you're gone,

978
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep going. Like I really, as much

979
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: as I don't agree with the ideology of the Liberals

980
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,439
Speaker 1: or the Coalition, it's so important to have them there

981
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: because those things that really leap our country forward often

982
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: come from the right, those really big moral things that

983
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: make us have that moral authority when it comes to

984
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: foreign policy and things like that.

985
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, you think of you mentioned Tony Abbott. He I

986
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 3: think famously misquoted, but summarize it nicely. That you know,

987
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 3: no one side on one person is the suppository of

988
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 3: all wisdom. That's kind of the mentality, right, That's where

989
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 3: we're at.

990
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 2: Angie, excellent fella.

991
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 3: Great local member, works so hard for that community and

992
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 3: you saw it in the vote. That was one of

993
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 3: the seats that flipped on Saturday night because Warren Ancher's

994
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 3: name wasn't on the ticket anymore. And there's two times

995
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 3: Labour's won that seat i think since the Howard era

996
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 3: or during the Howard era, and that's when Warrench's name

997
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 3: wasn't on the ballot and he came back, got the

998
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 3: seat back. Now he's left and the seats gone again.

999
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 3: So there is real opportunity if you're a good enough

1000
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 3: local member, much like if you're a good enough leader,

1001
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 3: people will stick with you.

1002
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: That's been shown.

1003
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 3: The interesting about same sex marriage is like and she

1004
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 3: obviously drove that for a long time. Tim Wilson, who

1005
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 3: looks like he's back in the Parliament, he was one

1006
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 3: of those people behind it in the Liberal Party as well.

1007
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 3: Trevor Evans, an MP that lost again on Saturday night, was.

1008
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 2: There as well.

1009
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 3: The other person who was really big on that was

1010
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 3: Peter Dutton clearly didn't support it. I don't think he

1011
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 3: voted when the vote finally went through. I think he

1012
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 3: abstained from the vote, as did a few of those Liberals,

1013
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 3: but he realized at that stage, and he's a real pragmatist,

1014
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 3: that they had to get it off the table otherwise

1015
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 3: they were doomed in what eventually became the Morrison miracles.

1016
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 3: So he was part of the driving force, along with

1017
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 3: the Attorney's office at the time, behind getting that off

1018
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 3: the table, getting it through, finding a way to make

1019
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 3: it happen. Because clearly people I mean sixty one percent

1020
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,919
Speaker 3: according to the vote, wanted to see change. You needed

1021
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 3: the internal agitating of someone like Warren Ensch.

1022
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 2: You needed the I guess realization or the reality.

1023
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 3: Of someone like Peter Dutton who saw the value in

1024
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 3: it in letting people have this say otherwise they're going

1025
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 3: to punish you as the governing for it. So it

1026
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 3: comes from all sides, but you're right. Without that initial agitation,

1027
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 3: then you wouldn't hear it. And that's the danger of

1028
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 3: getting high. If your own supply and only speaking to

1029
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 3: one group of people is you don't see those outside elements.

1030
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 3: You don't get that person agitating in your ear and

1031
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 3: reminding you that there are more people in the country

1032
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 3: that might think differently.

1033
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: We live in a time where the White House is

1034
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: banning the most banal news outlet on the planet, the

1035
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 1: Associated Press from the White House because they gave them

1036
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 1: a bad ride up and that is such a dangerous

1037
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 1: thing for a functioning democracy. It is so so important

1038
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: to have people like yourself who really care able to

1039
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: go Hang on a second, but you said six months

1040
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: ago this and now that, have you changed your mind

1041
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 1: and asking the really pointy questions, because that's what we need.

1042
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:36,760
Speaker 1: We need power to be held to account. Otherwise powers

1043
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 1: just a fire hose and who knows what's going to happen. Man,

1044
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: So thank you, you've clearly dedicated your life to this.

1045
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 1: Thank you very very much for doing so, because it

1046
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: is knowing that people like you exist make me feel

1047
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: better about whatever happens, that someone's there to call them

1048
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: out if it goes wrong, and that's really really important.

1049
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: Your job is as important as those people. Don't hope

1050
00:51:58,320 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: you see it that way.

1051
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 2: You Malcolm Turnble used to say the same thing.

1052
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if you meant it, but he used

1053
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 3: to say it at the Christmas drinks every year, and again,

1054
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 3: like it before. We've done a belabor But it's not

1055
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 3: just the people on camera or writing. Is a whole

1056
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 3: crew and a whole team of really talented. For me,

1057
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 3: it's cameraman and photographers and editors, producers that make all

1058
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 3: this happen. So whilst yeah, there is a pension to

1059
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 3: look at individual particularly in this age of where reporters

1060
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 3: can not me, but others can can become quite famous

1061
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 3: and stars, it's important to realize as a whole team

1062
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 3: and it's not just one person against the world. And

1063
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 3: that's a good thing as well, because the suppository of

1064
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 3: all wisdom thing doesn't come here as well.

1065
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 1: If you're working with a cameo that can't see something

1066
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: is about to happen. You missed the shot of Mark

1067
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: Latham shaking John Howard's hand. The cameo could see it coming.

1068
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: If you watch the Royal footage, you see him reframe

1069
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: and get ready all right, And without that, you've got

1070
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: no story in that moment doesn't exist. And that moment

1071
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: like that change a lot in our country. And so yeah,

1072
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. If I was Ricky Stewett would speak

1073
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: in the third person. So Ricky Stewett really hopes that

1074
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 1: Ricky Stewart can get those Raiders all the way to

1075
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: that Grand Final four.

1076
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 2: Ricky Stewart and Charles Croucher as well.

1077
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: Don't worry, absolutely legend, thanks for making the time to

1078
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: speak to us and what must be Fuck, I hope

1079
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: you just get a nap, but there's work to be done.

1080
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 3: As Albo said, Yeah, a combination of a salad and

1081
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 3: the sleep are going to go really well at some point.

1082
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 1: Alid and sleep.

1083
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 2: I love it, appreciate it, mate.

1084
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 1: That was Charles Croucher, the Nine Networks chief political editor,

1085
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: Charles Crutcher, gumbre. Yeah, that's him. It's great. What a

1086
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: great bloke, What an incredible guy. What a wonderful way

1087
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Speaker 1: to talk about politics. And I'm really grateful, as I

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Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, as you heard me say to him, I'm

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Speaker 1: really grateful that people like that exist because we can't

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Speaker 1: have a strong democracy A without great media and AB

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Speaker 1: without great opposition. Regardless of how I feel about the

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Speaker 1: opposition's ideologies, it's really important that whatever the people in

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Speaker 1: power are trying to put in it is tested and

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Speaker 1: it's stress tested, and it's tested to work by the

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Speaker 1: most cynical of oppositional people. And if it gets over

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Speaker 1: the line, we'll let me know that's an idea that works.

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Speaker 1: And that's really really important if we want democracy to work,

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Speaker 1: so I couldn't thank him enough for making time for us.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to Adam Buncher, who made the show happen today.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. I know we got pretty nerdy

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Speaker 1: in there, but boy I did actually really quite love it.

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Speaker 1: If you need me, send us to email at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com. Do come along to story Club. Tickets are

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Speaker 1: at story clublive dot com if you want to go

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Speaker 1: this also link in the show notes and I'll see

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Speaker 1: you back here on Monday.